Doctrine of hell - To Geerup and Sableckicken pt1

[TheExpertCritique]

socrates was no atheist genius, he was a gnostic who studied the hebrew prophets closely ,He worshipped satan.When our scholars brought these greeks out of secrecy only a couple of centuries ago they sanitised this aspect deliberately. Which might give you a clue about who you have trusted to educate you. Pride is the sin brainwashing rides in on.Smarter the man usually means bigger the ego, which makes smart folks the easiest to brainwash. Also once again you misrepresnt the bible re:sin

[Valthepixie]

If the deity creates everything for a specific purpose as claimed in the bible, then burning bibles is a deliberate creation of the deity.

Personally think the bible has the wrong title, it should be called 'a collection of bronze age oxymorons'. Much more descriptive. :D

[SuperDuperAtheist]

lol Dan FTW!

[TheServantofiam]

I see your point but, I was commenting about burning books, not having and voicing an opinion. I'm not out burning science books if you know what I mean. But your point remains valid.

[TheServantofiam]

I find it very interesting that athiest's would even consider burning a book they believe is a fairy tale. Why not burn Harry Potter books? It shouldn't matter about content, whether it speaks of hell or of hogwarts since both are untrue to the athiest. God does say we ALL know of Him and are without excuse

Romans 1:18-23 could this be the reason?

[Danmill23]

@TheServantofiam This statement is below you. You can do better than this.

eg

Why would a christian complain about evolution, if they think it's untrue? Blah blah blah.

People complain about things when they get in their face and you don't agree with them.

I and most atheists don't care what you believe, but we get really annoyed when people start urinating in the font of human knowledge. (Yes I'm looking at you crestionists)

[terrigreen100]

Christians care about where people will spend eternity, how bad is that? their motives are good, what motive does an atheist have, trying to convince otherwise? (wow, trying to take hope from people) I guess misery loves company.

[GaaraLover1792]

@terrigreen100 I'm an atheist and I'm happy as can be. When you can live for eternity, this life on earth seems almost meaningless compared to the afterlife. But when you only have this life, it becomes infinitely valuable. Also, hope is not attached to religion or any god.

[GaaraLover1792]

@TheServantofiam How exactly are we without excuse? the Romans passage you reference states the following:

"since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse"

Maybe I'm just an ignorant atheist, but in what way does god make himself known?

[TheServantofiam]

@GaaraLover1792 God is known by what has been made. What has been made (the universe) could not have created itself, something outside of time, space and matter must have created the visible universe. All nations have a god for the same reason, it is built into us to recognize that creation has a Creator. It is hardwired into us, so none will have a good enough excuse come the great and terrible day of the Lord. God is not mocked, He is patient. 2 Peter 3:3

[GaaraLover1792]

@TheServantofiam Prove that god made everything. Everything must be created, but I have never seen anything that made me go "only god could do this" Also, it is NOT hardwired into us to that creation has a creator. Unless by creator you really just mean a force by which things may be created. However, if by some chance we Atheists are wrong, I will gladly take my place in hell. Also, the biblical god is a cruel bastard and can't make up his mind.

[kojaxkid]

Talk a little bit slower and take longer pauses please ur going to fast i can barely keep up.

[Danmill23]

Yeah I know dude. I know. But we are dealing with creationists here.

Fair enough.

[kojaxkid]

i was being sarcastic btw

[Danmill23]

lol Ahhh. lol. I could not tell.

[peilthetraveler]

So long winded...5 minutes into it and all you are saying is "how can i defend my point of view" Whatever you had to say, i didnt get to hear because i was too bored out of my mind to finish watching it.

[SAHBfan]

Dan takes a while to get to the point... one of his weaknesses maybe, but stick with it. It is masterful pownage, well worth watching ;-)

[RyuDarragh]

GEERUP tends to "creatively" edit others videos and act in a mocking and insulting manner. I knew this from any and every other video he has made.

It was obvious from your video you were setting GEERUP up for a chance to try and trash your video.

And, of course, GEERUPS simplistic mindset went for it, hook line and sinker :P

[ZarlanTheGreen]

I was one of the ones who didn't get the deeper message. I knew there had to be one, because the superficial response was too blatantly stupid, and weird, but... it was in no way clear.

(I saw the videos due to CapnOrdinary's video response to the discussion)

[Danmill23]

Hmmm ...  Well I'm glad you got there in the end.

[atheisthead1]

I didn't see it either AND I didn't see the deeper message. Somebody had to light the fire first.

[CapnnOrdinary]

why did God create Hell? did God create Sin? good questions, and i don't know the exact answer. -but-

do you really want to be forced to love someone? is that true love?

if God came down and proved Himself to -you-, do you think you would believe? -and- would you want to follow Him?

i know the idea of eternity in Hell can seem extreme, but i believe it shows exactly how serious God is about this.

you still got time doode.

[Danmill23]

Fuck off you shithead troll.

[CapnnOrdinary]

wow, why the anger buddy?

ya know, the more i engage with Atheists, the more i see evidence that they are anger filled, hating, closed-minded people. if that's what Atheism is about, why would i want to be an Atheist? i mean, if you have Truth, why wouldn't you want to share it with me? does Atheism make you greedy?

what's the deal dan?

[Danmill23]

Ok as discussed. Sorry for getting all offensive.

Do I really want to be forced to love someone?

No. But burning is worse. Plus giving someone an option to decide for them selves is a bit mean spirited if you burn for ever if you choose wrong. Plus it would be easier to love someone who you didn't have to fear might burn you. It's like loving a tiger. (ask Roy and Zeikfried)

Is that true love? Good question.

[Danmill23]

If God came down and proved Himself to -you-, do you think you would believe? -and- would you want to follow Him?

Some say "even if god prooved himself, the atheist would not believe." Rubbish.

I would believe. I would not want to follow him if my impression is true.

But would I accually follow him anyway to save my ass.

... fuck ... ... yes.

Would he accept a half-assed believe? Seems doubtful.

All of these answers also depend on weather god let's me ask questions or not.

[Danmill23]

i know the idea of eternity in Hell can seem extreme, but i believe it shows exactly how serious God is about this.

Did god think this as he spoke the world into creation?

"Hmmm how can I show them I'm serious ... ?"

Could not a holy and good god worked out some other method.

BTW

Hell is the WORST thing a human can imagine.

Alone, dark, bruning, pain, misery, regret - for ever.

Ultimately when you put it all together you see it's just us humans making stabs in the dark.

[CapnnOrdinary]

yes, Hell would be horrible, but for me, it would be because i would be separated from God forever.

see, until Satan rebelled and took a third of God's angels, there was no Hell, or at least not to my knowledge. so when God put forth Free-Will, He gave everyone a choice. and maybe Hell is eternal because He wants to make sure that the people who go to Heaven wont rebel like Satan did again.

cont.

[CapnnOrdinary]

so would you rather God make up another "place" to go instead of Hell, one that wasn't as bad? like, a bus stop? well, wouldn't waiting at a bus stop be Hell too?

could God make a rock so heavy that He couldn't lift it? no, He cannot work against Himself. that's what your above question is like, well couldn't God, since He's God, make it some other way? i'm curious, what way would you do? if -you- were God?

[CapnnOrdinary]

i believe your answer.

but, -if- Jesus was the Son of God and -did- perform those miracles, why didn't all those people follow Him? half of them crucified Him while the other half were convicted of believing He rose from the dead, and they were executed for believing that. they were either right, or crazy.

[Zekkron]

or mythical, since nobody ever mentioned them until 30 years after the fact.

[CapnnOrdinary]

it's ok :)

well, think of it in a marriage relationship. my wife is not a robot and neither am i. is it possible that she may cheat on me("burn")? yes, unfortunately it is. it's ultimately her choice. but think how cool it is that she doesn't cheat on me even though she could. now, how special would our love be if i chained her to the basement to make she she could never chose against me? is that the highest form of love when there is no freedom?

[SAHBfan]

CapnnnnnnnnnnnnnOrdinary,

I am a bit confused by your message. Please help me out here. I assume from your spoof of CapnOrdinary's name that you are a theist, and you post seemingly theistic comments, yet your argument about chaining your wife seems to be a perfect example of how love under duress isn't really true love, and in the same way 'god's love' is a bit warped if he needs to threaten us with hell... True love requires true free will, therefore any love with god is surely a sham?

[CapnnOrdinary]

yes, i'm a "sock account", but now -i'm- the real Capn' here :)

well, to be honest, i don't pick God's "side" to avoid Hell, i pick God because i truly do love Him more than anything else in this whole world.

but, i have compassion for your question and perspective.

peace buddy

-C

[SAHBfan]

"i don't pick God's "side" to avoid Hell, i pick God because i truly do love Him "

... that is a stroke of luck, otherwise he'd condemn you to burn for ever ;-)

Except, being an atheist, I don't believe gods exist. When I die, I cease to exist. No eternity, no hell or heaven, just oblivion.

It seems to me that since an omnipotent god can do anything, arranging my oblivion would be easy - save the holy, let the rest die. So what is it with the eternal torture?

Why is this neccesary?

[CapnnOrdinary]

"... that is a stroke of luck, otherwise he'd condemn you to burn for ever ;-)"

why luck? i don't know any Believer that follows God because of Hell.

i believe Hell is also a "Judgement". so, anyone who doesn't want God, will be judged on their actions. and if that's true, we all fall short of living a sinless life. think of it this way, would you feel "justice" was being served if we didn't send criminals to prison? this all depends on your perspective of course.

[SAHBfan]

I just loved the way Geerup piles into your first video without a moments hesitation and not a milliseconds reflection that perhaps it might, just might have a bit of a hint of parody about it of his own verbeage. Amazing! He's all mouth and no ears, that guy - it is strictly one way traffic, which alas we can see from his final video reply to part 2...

[InvaderZimFan101]

oh yeah and i love the fact the geerup censors his comments and then states that he DOESNT twist and distort the truth, he seeks it. lol i left a comment to say to him the video was sarcastic if he diddnt realise and i recieved a

"comment pending" good old geerup always letting us see the truth.

[InvaderZimFan101]

what the fuck is wrong with geerup, he tries to relate the burning of a material item to the burning of children? and the fact he diddnt realise that you were sarcastic at the start until you said "any bible that gets burned, brings it on itself" which i totaly agree with you.

please keep making videos to shut this bible thumper up, at least you make sense.

oh yeah are you from Australia?

[Danmill23]

lol.  Yeah. Cheers!

[Tobytrim]

Very good point - well made I got the point immediately.

You obviously cornered, with inescapable facts, at least as many theists as I have in your time.

This is an even better argument than I predicted!

[makaisenki]

Religion is just like a cancer. It pretends to be the immune system that tries to heal the body. Instead it infests the body, and spreads to all areas. There are ways to prevent it, but it's really hard to cure it. If you do manage to fight it to where it doesnt' kill the body, so much time and effort is spent. Trying to get rid of it can also do long lasting damage as well.

You can't fight a cancer you swear you don't have. People need to wake up. Why do so many people love being so blind?

[Danmill23]

*nods* Yes. Well said.  100%

[TheAtheistPaladin]

Ah yes I see the parallels now.

"bible burn them-self"

"People send them-self to hell"

"Atheist don't burn the bibles, they tries to stop it"

"God doesn't send people to hell, he tries to stop them"

[Danmill23]

Ah cool. Its a bit worring when you try something like this that people won't understand you. It's difficult to judge how many "hints" you should give.

[brutus149]

If:

God is all-powerful

God is all-knowing

God created Lucifer

God created man

God created free will

Lucifer screwed it all up and created sin

I'm about to make toasters with different settingss that sometimes burn toast, but don't blame me for the burnt toast, blame the damn toasters for being put on the wrong setting.

[Danmill23]

Yes. You can imagine this issue before a court, sueing for dammages. Who would be paying out the money?

[CapeandCowl]

Another good video Dan. I think your satire in your original reply to Geerup flew over his head at mach 3.

[Danmill23]

Thanks Cape. I think you're right there.

[BellaTheHappyLoser]

you did awesome thing making that video response to him.

I KNEW he would take the bait. because its so frustrating when they talk like that(the way you did saying no atheists burn bible).

I laughed how geerup sounded like atheist in response to you :)

[Danmill23]

Thanks Bella. I hear you.

[Desertphile]

During the winter of 1999-2000 I burned over 100 Bibles. Well, I should say "Over 100 Christian Testaments" since there weren't any Hebrew Testaments to burn. They were free and they were easier to haul than fire wood. I burned them because they were (and are) fuel---- not to make any political statement, public or private. They burn better if they are soaked in water in the summer and allowed to dry, then stacked for winter use.

[Danmill23]

I can just imagine you tip-toeing through the desert hunting bibles with a spear. A Natrual materialist. (;

[Desertphile]

"Sablechicken" is nuts and "Geerup" is faking it. As for why Christians invented Hell, Robert Sheaffer wrote a book about Christian Resentment that addresses the issue.

[PoopShoot1102]

Well done.

[Danmill23]

Thanks Poop.  Great conversation with Cimbolic. You make some very interesting/instghtful points.

[PoopShoot1102]

Thank you, I try. I can be insightful when I'm not overlooking the deeper meaning ;)

[Cimbolic]

In his original video, Geerup never established that the people burning the books were atheist.

Many were teenagers. They may have been from Christian families and have been protesting what they felt to be religious pressure.

One of the books burned was a Qur'an.

[PoopShoot1102]

He did, however, cut the parts out of the videos that show the kids saying as much.  One of the videos was two teenage kids who were burning their parents' bible in protest for being punished for converting to Buddhism. Not exactly what Geerup was implying, is it?

[Cimbolic]

No, it isn't. It would be interesting to poll the kids who actually burned the bibles to hear their background stories.

[PoopShoot1102]

Several of the videos he used were on teh top of the list if you search "burn bible" or "bible burn". Nearly all of them show kids being kids and vandalizing things just for the sake of rebellion against their parents and so forth. Regardless, the point being addressed in the video Geerup was responding to was clearly censorship. I know of no atheists who are interested in censoring religion, though all are against compulsory religion.

[Cimbolic]

Geerup no doubt has several simultaneous agenda items running at the same time.

He made a comment in his video to the effect that "I guess we shouldn't have taken prayer out of the schools?"

This is part of a pernicious agenda to force religion, specifically Christianity, back into the public school system, in defiance of the 1st Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

[PoopShoot1102]

That may be the case to some degree, but having been a christian who dealt with this while growing up, I know that the propaganda is that it is illegal to pray in schools. They actually teach their children to pray silently in the cafeterias and such, but to be careful not to get caught because they can be suspended or expelled. The few who realize that this is crap have their own propaganda about an anti-prayer version of the famous "national Sunday law".

[Cimbolic]

Very strange indeed.

[djosephallen]

Danmill = Genius.

Sadly, geerup will try to find a way to dance around this, christians like him always find a way to justify their logic when it comes to their god...at least in their minds.

[Danmill23]

Thanks Jo. We'll see. It'll be interesting to see how geerup handles it. But I hope he's honest.

[riversonthemoon]

I just watched his response.

XD

Gold! You are the master of the reverse psychology pwnage. It's like playing with children for you, isn't it?

[Danmill23]

Hey Riv. Nah it was a team effort! c(;

[4096x]

i am first.

[thereisnomessage]

The internet salutes you, first commenter.

[TheAtheistPaladin]

And you didn't win a dam thing for your useless comment.