Steffi Graf vs M. Navratilova - W1988 Final 7/9

[Sakartwelo20]

Steffi ist da so jung :)

[2hologram]

Graf was good in her time, Evert Seles Navratilova were also good. But nothing compared to the most beautiful backhand women's tennis ever had and that's Justine Henin . She and Kim Clijsters and the Williams sisters are the best. But that's my opinion

[Hoffenheim08]

@2hologram

The Williams sisters and the Belgians played in an era in which Jankovic, Ivanovic, Safina and Wozniacki types were #1.

Graf didn't have it that easy.

[manyturk]

@Hoffenheim08 You idiot, they played in an era where Clijsters, Henin, Williamses, Capriati, Davenport, Sharapova, Hingis etc became number 1.

The ones you mention are after their era.

Also, Ivanovic doesn't deserve to be mentioned along those others.

[Hoffenheim08]

@manyturk

You are mistaken.

The Williams sisters and the Belgians played most successful in the years 2000-2010.

According to the WTA statistics Jankovic, Ivanovic, Safina and Wozniacki were #1 in that era.

Hingis was #1 for the last time in 2001, Capriati in spring 2002. The Belgians won their first slam in 2003.

[atomcrush]

The endless, mindless debate over Graf vs Seles is hilarious. 20 years have passed and people are still bitter. Get over yourselves.

[artisking1]

@atomcrush

If you are tired about hearing about it, then why are you opening this subject up again?

Maybe you didn't notice, but It was closed two weeks ago, Hoffie was humiliated for lying, and that is the end......

Case Closed.

[Hoffenheim08]

Selestards should watch this clip very closely.

Steffi played even better than in the Wimbledon 92 final.

I don't think that even peak Seles would have avoided a 0-6 0-6 if she had to play a Steffi in this vintage form!

[artisking]

@Hoffenheim08

Changing the subject, Sissy?

Whats a matter, caught lying again?

I'll ask you ONE more time, Sissy.......

Did you watch the video stats of the final between Seles and Graf?

Come on sissy.......admit that you lied....we all KNOW you did.........

[artisking]

@Hoffenheim08

COME ON, Sissy........what does the tape say?

You havee been busted....YOU LIED. Very Sloppy. Very Dumb...Especially when there is video to humiliate you.....

I guess you feel you have to make up lies because Graf wasn't good enough? There would be no other reason to lie, unless you were insecure about her record and Seles?

I don't blame you. Steffi certainly is insecure when it comes to Seles, so if her fans have to make up lies, it just goes to show who was the BEST.....

[artisking]

Graf played beautifully.....but Martina was 30, 31 years old and slumping majorly. At 30, Graf was RETIRED....

...Graf came along at a precipitous time in the sport, when the two top players were well past their primes.....Martina was 30, 31 when Graf starting winning majors, and Chris Evert was 33-35....

..a credit to Martina that she was able to win Wimbledon at 33, and get to the final at 37..........

Graf was retired at 30......remarkable.

[Hoffenheim08]

@artisking

From May 1989 until March 1990 Navratilova won 70 matches in a row against players not named "Steffi Graf".

She was a late bloomer, won her first slam at age 21, her third slam at age 25.

Beat #1 Seles four times as a 34/36-year-old player. Many, many years after this 1988 Wimbledon final.

[artisking]

@Hoffenheim08

Doesn't change the fact that Graf came along at a time in the sport when the two top players in the world were 30-32 years old. Evert played Graf till she was 34 years old, and Martina was BEATING Graf at 35 years old.

The truth is, Graf came along at the precipitous time.

When Seles arrived, with matching youth and superior power, Graf was quickly dethroned.

And Graf retired at 30, ducking the rise of the Williams sisters.

Martina N? She didn't duck anyone......

[Hoffenheim08]

@artisking

Navratilova was so good at an old age that she was able to beat #1 Seles four times at at age 34/36.

Pre-slump Steffi was 4-0 H2H in 1988/89 against a 31/32-year-old Navratilova.

BTW, Seles having superior POWER compared to Graf is a joke, no?

[artisking]

@Hoffenheim08

Once again, Graf did come along at an advantageous time. Evert, 32, was seriously fading, and Martina, 30, was totally slumping.

And Seles did have superior power to Graf, vastly SUPERIOR POWER.

And I can prove it..

In the Aussie Open 1993 Final, Seles hit 7-1 aces over Graf and overpowered Graf 31-21 in winners......Seles hit more FOREHAND and backhand winners, and hit her first serves HARDER than Graf, upwards of 165 K....

..faster than Graf served for the entire match.

[Hoffenheim08]

@artisking

Once again, Evert herself said that she never was better than in 1986. When Steffi - aged 16 - beat her for the first time and never lost again to her.

Yes, yes, Seles hit more winners, more ace and less unforced errors than Steffi in that close match on her (Seles's) favourite surface. Funny that she made only 8 points more than Steffi (86-78).

But in Selesian standards 8 points more in one match is impressive.

Graf fans have higher standards ...

[artisking]

@Hoffenheim08

Graf fans have higher standards?

Really...funny.....because you're a liar. YOU lied and wrote on YOUTUBE that Graf had hit more winners in the 1993 Aussie Final match (39-34....LOL...what a bad LIE!)......

And you Stupidly said you had the Newspaper to prove it. I corrected your LIE of course, as it was really Seles who overpowered Graf, 31-21, 7-1 aces.....

So I guess this Graf HIgher standard is your insecurity and ability to LIE through your teeth?

LOL.....

[Hoffenheim08]

@artisking

I have counted the winners myself. Steffi made 39 and Seles 34. Add to that Seles's 7-1 aces and you get 41 vs. 40 in Seles's favour. Big deal!

Do you want to have the stats for the Wimbledon 1992 final, the most important match both ever played against each other?

[artisking]

@Hoffenheim08

More lies, Sissy.....Sissy Hoffie always LIES when he loses an argument...

Thing is, I can PROVE you are lying, sissy......

Please got to Jayfeys match coverage...Seles vs Graf AO (6/9)-(9/9).......it shows the stats of the match.......BLACK AND WHITE

Seles 31, Graf 21.....Seles 7-1 aces....a BLOW OUT.......

Sorry Sissy LIAR.......

[Hoffenheim08]

@artisking

There is no Seles vs. Graf AO (9/9) on YouTube.

[artisking]

@Hoffenheim08

then check 8/9 AO, or 7/9......the stats are listed, and you KNOW it.......

Graf was thoroughly OUTHIT....31-21 in winners....

In fact, at the end of the second set, Graf had ONLY HIT 12 Groundstroke winners.......

So i guess, according to you stupid, Graf hit 27 winners in her THIRD SET LOSS to Seles, losing her serve twice in a row and never breaking Seles?

LOL......any more embarrassing lies, dummy?

[Hoffenheim08]

@artisking

I think Jayfey is a Selesian and a liar. Which indeed often comes hand in hand.

[artisking]

@Hoffenheim08

What a sissy you are, Hoffie....but unfortuately, the only LIAR is YOU.

Unless of course, The video has been tampered with, and there is some vast conspiracy between Jayfey, the Australian Open, and Australian Open TV Coverage listing the wrong stats.....LOL.....

You're an idiot, Hoffie.......LOL.......

Seles 31 winners, Graf 21 winners......7-1 aces for Seles....

I know it hurts.......LOL....

[Hoffenheim08]

@artisking

Which video?

At which point (exact time)?

[artisking]

@Hoffenheim08

Seles vs Graf AO (6/9) ...the 8:45 mark.....

Did you watch it, Sissy? Come on now, don 't be a whus and pull a disappearing act......

[Hoffenheim08]

@artisking

That was the end of the match, dumbass ...?

Part (6/9)?

[artisking]

@Hoffenheim08

Come on Sissy.....what does it say at the 8:45 mark, seles vs Graf AO (6/9)?

Let me tell you what it says sissy...

Seles 23 winners, Garf 13 winners end of set two......LOL

Earlier you wrote that Graf had hit 39 winners (LOL) to seles' 36. So are we to believe that Graf hit 26 winners in the third set alone, a set she lost 2-6, getting broken twice in a row and Never breaking Seles????

Come on Loser, admit that you lied, you're busted, nothing you can do about it now...

[beckerbombs]

Wow a Graf and Navratilova video which Nicklas (the biggest Navratilova fanatic lunatic on earth) and Hoffenheim (the biggest Graf fanatic lunatic on earth) havent invaded with their usual crap. What a relief.

[Hoffenheim08]

@beckerbombs

What is to comment here?

We all know that Graf destroyed 6-time defending champ Navratilova here, winning 12 of the last 13 games. And Navratilova didn't even play bad that day.

[beckerbombs]

@Hoffenheim08 Steffi did play amazing that day and would have probably even beaten a peak Martina that day. Remember though Martina was 31, and to put it into perspective Graf retired shortly after her 30th birthday. And Martina still managed a set even vs the on fire Graf.

[Hoffenheim08]

@beckerbombs

Martina won her third slam at 25 and her last one at 33.

Steffi won her third slam at 18 and her last one at 29.

Martina had almost no injuries during her career, Steffi tons of them.

[TonygMus2]

The quality is quite good! I can see it perfectly on my computer!

[liamhen]

All credit to Graf but Martina was injured and her serve had nothing on it that day..did not help her that day...I remember when women's tennis was exciting and the men;s game sucked..now its the opposite.

[cain2335]

@liamhen well klijsters and Henin are back and playing well. i expect women's tennis to get a little more interesting

[liamhen]

Cain-yes I am very happy!!!

[pitbull103]

I love how Stefi held two balls in her hand for her first serve toss -- so old school. If the first serve went in, she simply held the other ball the entire point. She did not start each point by tucking a ball into the bloomers or getting another ball from the ball boys. Yes, later on she elected to get the second serve ball from the kids, which was probably the smarter option to get any remaining tension out of the other arm.

[dtv2031]

Martina is a pretty smart player so I don't know why she didn't change her strategy in this match. She should have stayed back and throw a couple of top spin shots to Graf's backhand to defuse all that power. But Steffi was playing beautifully. She's my favorite and it sucks to see how women tennis is so ugly now with all the players carbon copies of each other. No creativity at all.

[volvariella]

Yeah, Martina seemed to rush it too early and her serve wasn't just biting enough. Blame the windy condition.

[darius3000]

I'd also like to take this opportunity to criticize former tennis commentator JoAnn Russell for her unabashedly anti-Navratilova remarks. She made it very clear before, during, and after the match that she did not want Navratilova to win it and that biased slant continued into the Family Circle Cup the following year when she ripped Navratilova apart for losing to Zvereva. It's no wonder NBC replaced her with Chris Evert. Commentators can't be biased when they deliver!

[ants2876]

@darius3000 Then you should scold Martina for her anti Graf comments, especialy when Graf played one of her "friends" like Seles or Sabatini. Just watch the 95 U.S Open semis and finals, a complete disgrace which is why Martina was fired from CBS after that year. Most former players have their biases, Martina included.

[darius3000]

@ants2876 I don't remember this. And @dtv2031 I agree about women's tennis. It's so much about power and topspin now and we're missing the dimension that Graf/Navratilova provided.

[ants2876]

@darius3000 Nick Bolletieiri was the death of interesting womens tennis. He was the one who brought up nearly all the ball bashing clones Seles, Pierce, etc..Thank goodness for the Williams sisters who combine immense power with tactical know how and variety.

[darius3000]

@ants2876 You may have a point, but I'd say Serena has all those elements in perfect sync rather than Venus. The game has definitely gotten much faster (because of the rackets) and has kept players from adopting a serve and volley type play.

[ants2876]

@darius3000 Yeah if you come in today you had better be coming in off something great and be awfully comfortable up there. Coming to net today with the court conditions, the equipment, and the power of the player is like coming in to a missile. It is dissapointing in away as it takes all the variety of the game that used to be there.

[darius3000]

@ants2876 Completely agree.. if you are comfortable up there and do enjoy volleying, you're going to have an advantage over most everyone else at the club level.

[darius3000]

This is one of my favorite matches, but I liked the match better when Martina was winning it! I didn't like that Graf won this match, but no one could've stopped her with those returns.

[zanam4muktii]

wow Graf was superb in 1988. the way she hits the ball from both side backhand and forhand that was just unbelievable. i haven't seen this kind of powerfull match in women's game till now. it is just like a Federer Vs Nadal's match. I mean Graf's power that time is just like a men's power. I'm not sure why Graf did hit backhand like this then after. I'm sure if she used to hits her backhand like this then the number Grandslam titles...........more...... more... more... may be around 30.

[J99ETC]

You should watch a Seles match she hit the ball harder than Graf...and watch Seles Capriati 1991 US Open...impossible power from two teenagers...amazing stuff..:)

[Hoffenheim08]

@J99ETC

Harder than Graf?

Then why did Graf usually hit more winners than Seles?

[ants2876]

@J99ETC yes Capriati was so amazing as evidenced by her 1-10 head to head with Graf. And Graf hit more winners than Seles in virtually every match they played even most of the losses. The 93 Australian Open final and the 95 U.S Open final are the only matches I can think of where Seles had more.

[volvariella]

Well, it doesn't make sense. If she used too much topspin, then she would have difficulty to run around her backhand to execute her lethal forehand. In short, her backhand is more vulnerable from attack and errors (slice is much safer shot).

22 grand slams are too many for her already. Monica Seles, do I need to remind people about this player every time? ;)

[dctrgreen]

I think Martina hurt herself in this match by continuing to serve and volley when Graf was passing her with ease on so many returns. I think she would have been better to wait and try to get into the net behind a deep slice approach. It may not have mattered anyway, with Graf playing so well, but Martina was a sitting duck at net so many times and Graf just ripped passing shot after passing shot by her. Again, it may not have worked but it would have given Graf a different look at least.

[ants2876]

@dctrgreen Martina cant win the match from the baseline with Graf if Graf is playing well. So she had no choice but to keep coming in. Either it works or it doesnt but that was the only play.

[krtina455]

Wow -- Graf with 49 winners to 17 unforced errors. Crazy!

[saar144]

and most of them were backhand winners! amazing.