i agree we should not contextualize the gospel but we do need to follow Paul's example in the gospel take 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 he became as they were to get the message to them don't change the gospel but change how you present it
I'm saddened by the misunderstanding that John Piper has about 'contextualising the gospel'. He is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT that the gospel does NOT change!
However, the simple fact is that HOW you say the gospel DOES change across cultures, across language groups, across socio-economic groups, across ethnicities, across countries... even across States!!! (This is contextualisation.) It's not just about learning the other culture, it's also about explaining the eternal Gospel in their own context.
@growingrace i agree, growing grace. jesus didn't 'just say it", he said it, he used parables to expound upon it, and he demonstrated it with power. we're told to follow the example of jesus, right. this is not to denigrate piper in any way. i think what he's saying is that we should simplify the message as much as possible, but you HAVE TO BE prepared to explain and elaborate when questioned.
First off, I love John Piper and enjoy many of his sermons. Right now I am pursuing a pastoral degree and studying the bible. I can say to the average person contextualization may not be the most important. As a preacher it brings so much depth and understanding of the Gospels when looking at the 1st century world view. You would be amazed really. So I disagree with this, if you don't understand the time a lot of what is going on in the gospels wont be understood when read.
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Which Bible? There are so many.
And when you study it with the zeal of a blossoming pastor, I sure hope you realize that you are pushing fiction... most likely to make sure the sheep tithe the shepherd. Priests, Pastors, Mullahs & Rabbis = Conmen out to tell you how to live your lives, in obedience to malleable dogma.
Reject it, consider your reason and think for yourselves!
So, how would you 'contextualize' what John talks about in this video? Adam-sin-death-Christ.... That message doesn't change when you cross a boarder, and it's meaning seems to be universal, isn't it.?
I'm not against contextualizing....however, i would look at it more like' redeeming the culture'.. can we really put the gospel in a different 'context'? if so, how?
Simplistically, yes it is universal. There is no debate there...at all. I am talking about getting into the culture, worldview, and epistemological mindsets of the people. Understanding the politcally charged statements Jesus brought to the Government and how he challenged the Scribes. Understanding what the Messiah was "suppose" to do. All these things allow the Gospels to become alive. Adam-sin-death-Christ are basic. I am saying thats correct, but there is more going on.
Piper is talking about in irrelevant Gospel. The story of Adam is this and this alone; Sin entered the world; And because of sin we are prone to the evil nature because of the prevalence of sin. What Piper was picking at is that we must not just say "Adam sinned so you are condemned", making the Gospel irrelevant to those around us, but rather to assess, analyze, and digest the status of one individual sinner so that we can make the Gospel completely relevant to the sin they are
currently committing. Say the guy has never disobeyed his parents, so he doesn't know what it feels like when Adam disobeys God; Attack his adulterous heart, greedy hands, covetous mind, etc. Deliver the Bad News in a way it is relevant to its hearers, then Deliver the Good News on a silver platter and allow them to choose
The time of dark chaos approaches us. We will join our hands in the demon's realm. The holy light cries out in pain. The lies of god have been cast aside. The powerless now cower before the master. While they mutter their prayers of ignorance. Singing empty songs of their defeat. They can not hide from Satan's wraith. He shall feast upon the hordes of sheep. Their tender blood, drunk as wine. Their life-less bodies, quickly devoured. Their brittle bones, have built his throne.
It is true that the Gospel is absolutely true in every culture and to every man. It is the Truth that transcends all of humanity. We cannot "contextualize" it by compromising its wholeness in order for it to be "relevant".
But there are many different ways to attempt to spread the Gospel, and some are more effective than others. Learning the language IS a form of contextualization, because you wouldn't be very effective if you preached the Gospel to Thai speakers in the English language.
and then on top of that, the author of 3/4 of the NT was written by Paul the Aposle.
if you deny the authorship of the bible, you've got the dead sea scrolls to go up against, many original documents, many authentic copies of historical documents, many firsthand accounts by those who suffered for the cause of Christ, who directly heard from Jesus while he was incarnate and those who, thanks to them, Christianity has spread so widely.
The NT was written way after the death of "the christ" and it is not like the Bible uses all of the dead sea scrolls it edits the ones it likes and uses those, have you ever read the full translation of the dead sea scrolls?
in regard to manuscripts evidencing the validity of the bible, there are over 5000 in its original Greek manuscripts dating back to copies made within the first century of Jesus' death. So many compared to other ancient texts (such as Plato with 7, Ceasar with 10, Aristotle with 49) in fact, that to disregard the whole NT is to disregard the whole canon of western literature. it's got that much evidence.
The NT is the most evidenced ancient literature by far.
Jotasu. You have absolutely no clue what happened 1000 or 5000 years before you were born. You can only find out by the TESTIMONY of others (verbal, pictoral, written etc). Your belief (yes belief) that you can unquestionably proove anything in the distant past is infantile, it lack's knowledge of history and science (the limitations of both disciplines) You move on faith as much as we, except that you turst in biased people with an agenda and we trust in God who prooved to us his existance
"You can only find out by the TESTIMONY of others (verbal, pictoral, written etc). "
Thats of course when i reach a fosil, i show it to you and say "fosil". After that i show you an ice core and say "ice core", and lastly i show you the ground and say "geological layers".
"Your belief (yes belief) that you can unquestionably proove anything in the distant past is infantile"
Dude are you serious? So you find a fosil and you know exactly everything about it right ROFL no you rely on what someone tells you it is and when and how it came about. Further you must admit if you are somewhat inclined to reason and truth, that all they can come up with is educated guesses that have in some instances a very large margin of error. But of course you, indoctrinated one, never question your puppet masters and march like a good atheist socialist for the glory of your leaders.
"So you find a fosil and you know exactly everything about it right ROFL"
And thats why strawman fallacy its recognized, i never say that, you are saying it.
"no you rely on what someone tells you it is and when and how it came about"
And he rely on data we can both verify, i cant afirm further knowldage that i can comprehend. Lucky i've bases on physics, math and chemestry to know what is radiactive decay.
Jotasu "and he rely on data we can both verify" LOL no you can't you have the average persons knowledge about radioactive Decay and that's why you think it actually works. little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Did you even go to the websites I sent you?
you said:" I'm confused... weird concept of indoctrination" well study history and find out what indoctrination is, how it works and what agents are used to accomplish it... Church? please? you are 150-300 years behind, seriously.
"Further you must admit if you are somewhat inclined to reason and truth"
Yea, im inclined to things that can be demostrated with evidence, im guilty.
"that all they can come up with is educated guesses that have in some instances a very large margin of error."
what instances are u talking about?, you sound kinda fuzzy. if you mean radiometric dating and mass spectometry, those have a calculated margin of error in the form of +/- % , that depends on the method.
If you believe in a historical Jesus he most likely did not think of himself as the only son of god, he was a reformer who realized that the church and old faith were being used to stop us from living and being moral in our own world without a fear of going to hell, "dying for our sins" I do not think this is a literal physical thing this is the idea that you don't have to fear hell, you have to love and fear is the evil that is in us all, if you live for love then you will grow and be happy.
Jesus in my view tells us nothing if you are referring to the NT it is not written by Jesus, it was written by men who were not alive when Jesus was alive and so they never heard him speak, so to say that Jesus said anything is at best a second or third hand account of what "Jesus" said, the people who wrote the NT of the bible were pagans.
actually, for the Gospels, if they weren't written by the eye witness themselves (such as John), then it was written by someone on behalf of the eye witness (such as Mark), or to give "an orderly account" so that others would "know the certainty of the things", the truths of what Jesus spoke of (such as Luke)
Acts was written by Luke the physician, author of the Gospel of Luke. Luke was a companion of Paul, who had a supernatural encounter with Jesus, and also taken up to heaven before death.
yes... there's nothing that proves that John walked with Jesus... apart from the fact that he said he did, and was an eye witness, and testifies to it all... geez...
bottom line at the end of our lifetime we will be judged and the people who have accepted Jesus Christ will have everlasting life, the people that haven't will perish in hell for eternity.
@webmaster2089 Several times in Acts we are told that he and his household were saved, but in our culture such corporate salvations are unusual and our presentations of salvation are very individualistic. Yet in clan and family cultures such tribal salvations are common. This inidividualizing of salvation is one example of how without even realizing it we have already contextualized the gospel to our culture. Even Piper does.
@MyrtlePointMob the gospel was never meant to be contextualized to our culture because it has no context in our culture. It was written two thousand years ago FOR people two thousand years ago. If we need to either take it or leave it, then I say leave it. It's more outdated than almost anything we use to construct our societies today.
LOL! And how do you know that? Is it because you read it in the Bible? oh... will I be judged by an omnipotent father figure who threatens my soul with eternal torment if i don't believe in him? Even if I live a good life? oh... and he LOVES me too?
... well, bottom line: I reject him and anyone else who preaches fear for the sake of control. You should be ashamed for spewing such venom.
The bible is as real as anything, I never said it wasn't real, it is not the truth for me but this does not make it unreal, I would not call myself an atheist I do believe in ID or living universe concepts.
I am not sure but I think you are asking me why I don't follow the bible? If so I will tell you that if I was going to follow the bible I would do so in an adverse way, the KJV or any other bible that teaches the holy trinity is based on a pagen belief system that is universal on this planet which figures since it was the catholic pagen chuch that tought this in the first place. the deciples of the bible did not walk with Jesus they were not even alive at the time do some research.
The birth of Jesus. the death of Jesus, the holidays associated with Jesus, the holy trinity the 12 deciples of Jesus they are all pagen ideas, Jews do not follow the holy trinity this was not in the Old Testiment it is a totally Catholic idea it is from the old church of rome which was pagen.
If I believed everything I hear on the internet I would have believed this video to make sense to me, but it didn't we all make our own truths and along the way your operating system "culture" ways in on what you can accept as truth and what you cannot, to say that the idea of the holy trinity which was not taught by the Jews and then suddenly popped up when the Catholic church "pagans" wrote the OT and NT is a little odd to me, and it makes me think that this is a pagan ideal.
im not sure nor am i a major in stuff like this but i would like to learn more to counterattack this statement and i would be glad to have a religious debate about this plz quote ur top 5 web sources in which it substantiates ur belief and i will come back with my statement
Well most of what I have already mentioned is from a Christianity in Western Civilization that I read a long time ago while my wife was in college then put into my operating system to find my own truth, but if you do any research into WHO wrote the bible in a historical context you should be overwhelmed with both sides of this debate and you can then find out what it is you believe without having ever questioned it.
"Dear Child, You are my offspring. Nothing will ever separate you from my love. I will always comfort you. Unless you don't believe me, in which case I will torture you for ever and ever in the torture chamber I made. You know I'll do it, too. I already tortured and mutilated and killed and abandoned my only REAL son. Trust me." I realize this is not the usual presentation, but people need to know- it's called Informed Consent.
the starving ethiopian's hunger will one day end, if his hope is in Christ. If not, then his hunger will be nothing compared to hell. By the way, not just for the starving Ethiopian but for every man in existence, that includes me and you. All of us need the glorious gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Just because some don't see the need or its "relevance" doesn't make it so. God sets the standards not us.
Wow that's a pretty foregone conclusion ... You say u don't need Jesus therefore "none needs Jesus" . And your premise is based on what? But first can you explain why places like China gets to have the fastest growing number of Christians ? The culture is completely different from any western society so it can't be cultural
You know within the very depths of your soul that Jesus is the truth. That is why you are so defensive about it. You just brought up the example of starving ethiopian. But what about you. You are going to die and face a Holy God, who will judge you on every sin have comitted and every evil thought you contemplated. There are starving ethiopians who are saved and passionate about Christ. God gives a chance to everyone. You know that God exists... You Know It.......
If it is true that it is better to enter heaven with one guy gouged out than hell (Mat. 5:28) than it is better to enter heaven starving than hell full. Better be a poor and starving ethiopian who knows Jesus than a rich and selfish american who claims to know him but does not what he commands.
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There is no urgency to preach the gospel. No consequence. God did not preach the urgent gospel to adam and the exodus. Where was hell in those epic displays? These Calvinists follow a prejudice and bias god who withholds the keys to his cozy house from his Children of abraham. Some jews are unsaved. What possible reason would god have for not saving everyone sovereignly? Oh, the convenient "hidden counsel of god". What good is that if we never will find out what it is? Leaves me in infinite fear
i love mindblowing things that are simple. i think it's the simplicity of things that are so mind-blowing. complex things tend to take more time to process, ya know.
scepticchristian--you bring up some wonderful points, and there are some Scriptures that may help clarify some things. Christ has saved us from more than the consequence of sin; we have been recreated in His own likeness when we come to trust Him through faith by grace alone. We are reborn as new creatures. Jesus spoke of this in John 3. Paul in Romans 7 says that sin within Him does evil, not himself (v. 20). The sin within Him is at war with his mind.
2-2 "It is BECAUSE we sin that sends us to hell". No, it is because of Adam's sin. Technically (although scripture says we've all sinned) if we never sinned, we'd still be damned. Yes, the Bible also tells us that all have come short and should pay the price and it talks about weighing sins and works and being judged on this and also on grace alone through faith. This is contentious.
My question remains, "what is a Christian (or) how (every possible way) can we be saved?
In the words of Jesus, you can tell a tree by the fruit that it produces. Bad trees cannot produce good fruit (Luke 6:43). The entire human nature is infected with inherited disease from Adam (Rom. 5:12). Death rules over us (v. 17), and we became sinners because of that disobediance (v. 19). So it is impossible for us as humans with an inherited sinful nature to never sin as the scenario above presupposes.
"Once we become Christians it is the sin in us, not us that sins" I'd love to speak to your pastor or teacher! Sin comes from the same source, Christian or not. The difference is merely (in evangelical theology) that Jesus has saved 'us' from the consequence of it...
You are also totally unsure as to whether you are born into sin or not. Let me save you asking; you're pastor will tell you that you were born into sin due to Adam.
What concerns me here is that it is SO important to know this according to your denomination, yet so many within it are unsure.
TEll me, what is a Christian OR how is salvation obtained - all possible ways please.
That's the gospel. What Piper said about Adam, and then Jesus, that's the basic pure gospel. Now the gospel does more than just bring the news about how to get saved. The gospel ALSO strengthens us. It has several applications. But this one that Piper is talking about now is in my opinion THE most important.
What I believe you are saying is: I'll just check WHAT MY DENOMINATION TELLS ME I BELIEVE via a better scholar than myself. This surely demonstrates the complexity and diversity within Christendom and the utterly impossible task of securing clear understanding of even the most key points (see my last sentence in the next post). Few Christians check the Bible themselves for doctrinal answers.
I will double check, but I think that: its not that you inherit Adam's sins, but rather inherit the need to sin. We were born sinless in a sinful world. Because we grow in sin, we are technically sinners. That why we needed that salvation of Jesus Christ.
i'm pretty sure we are born sinful in a sinful world....our very nature is sinful and thus we love to sin....once we become Christians we still sin but it is the sin in us that does it, not ourselves (because we move from being slaves of sin to slaves of righteousness)
If you never sinned, you would not be damned to hell fire because we are only guilty through our actions. What piper is saying though, is that due to Adam's sin it is INEVITABLE that we will all one day sin. Adam through his sin made us all sinners. Just like a hopper will hop, a flyer will fly, a painter will paint, a sinner will sin.
ps science has clearly established that serpents have not evolved the ability to talk. If you believe otherwise you need to attend some biology classes
The word in the Masoretic text (the original Hebrew) that is translated as serpent doesn't necessarily refer to the animal. Serpents, in many cultures have been and are regarded as evil, therefore it is suggested that serpent here refers to satan. Just a thought...
if people are automatically charged with sin, does that not then make it pointless to bother trying to not sin, being as it is expected of us? If God is all knowing why did god not skip making Adam being god would or should have known Adam would sin? (sniff,sniff,sniff, I smell bullshit!)
Good thought, but I wouldn't stop at calling BS. Sinful actions are a symptom of sinful people. Because Adam sinned, we all become "sinners." Our actions make this fact clear by committing "sins." Gods laws were given so that it would be clear that we ARE sinners, not so that we could attempt to follow it to the point of not being a sinner.
Thank you for this video Aaron. I listened to his, "Demonstration of Gods Righteousness parts 2 and 3" the other day...it was MIND BLOWING! Thank God for grace... =)
i agree we should not contextualize the gospel but we do need to follow Paul's example in the gospel take 1 Corinthians 9:19-23 he became as they were to get the message to them don't change the gospel but change how you present it
lexuon21 3 months ago
1:59 - "I'm a velociraptor."
borkman19 4 months ago
"This book blows American brains." Awesome.
Bones0077 1 year ago
@Bones0077 This crap "blows" alright.
UrukEngineer 1 year ago
Putting the Scripture up or under it helps in Bible study. Thank you very much for your consideration.
joetown816 1 year ago
It isn't complicated, it's just mind blowing
desasterz 1 year ago 9
bold truth :)
RozyczkaProAna18 1 year ago
I'm saddened by the misunderstanding that John Piper has about 'contextualising the gospel'. He is ABSOLUTELY CORRECT that the gospel does NOT change!
However, the simple fact is that HOW you say the gospel DOES change across cultures, across language groups, across socio-economic groups, across ethnicities, across countries... even across States!!! (This is contextualisation.) It's not just about learning the other culture, it's also about explaining the eternal Gospel in their own context.
growingrace 1 year ago
@growingrace
spot on grace. that's I want to read the bible in the original text from original cultures--Hebrew OT and Judaism NT.
CloudsofBliss 1 year ago
@growingrace i agree, growing grace. jesus didn't 'just say it", he said it, he used parables to expound upon it, and he demonstrated it with power. we're told to follow the example of jesus, right. this is not to denigrate piper in any way. i think what he's saying is that we should simplify the message as much as possible, but you HAVE TO BE prepared to explain and elaborate when questioned.
revlooshin 1 year ago
First off, I love John Piper and enjoy many of his sermons. Right now I am pursuing a pastoral degree and studying the bible. I can say to the average person contextualization may not be the most important. As a preacher it brings so much depth and understanding of the Gospels when looking at the 1st century world view. You would be amazed really. So I disagree with this, if you don't understand the time a lot of what is going on in the gospels wont be understood when read.
MrBarkley89 2 years ago
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Which Bible? There are so many.
And when you study it with the zeal of a blossoming pastor, I sure hope you realize that you are pushing fiction... most likely to make sure the sheep tithe the shepherd. Priests, Pastors, Mullahs & Rabbis = Conmen out to tell you how to live your lives, in obedience to malleable dogma.
Reject it, consider your reason and think for yourselves!
SergeofPower 2 years ago
So, how would you 'contextualize' what John talks about in this video? Adam-sin-death-Christ.... That message doesn't change when you cross a boarder, and it's meaning seems to be universal, isn't it.?
I'm not against contextualizing....however, i would look at it more like' redeeming the culture'.. can we really put the gospel in a different 'context'? if so, how?
hubbs86 2 years ago
Simplistically, yes it is universal. There is no debate there...at all. I am talking about getting into the culture, worldview, and epistemological mindsets of the people. Understanding the politcally charged statements Jesus brought to the Government and how he challenged the Scribes. Understanding what the Messiah was "suppose" to do. All these things allow the Gospels to become alive. Adam-sin-death-Christ are basic. I am saying thats correct, but there is more going on.
MrBarkley89 2 years ago
@MrBarkley89
Piper is talking about in irrelevant Gospel. The story of Adam is this and this alone; Sin entered the world; And because of sin we are prone to the evil nature because of the prevalence of sin. What Piper was picking at is that we must not just say "Adam sinned so you are condemned", making the Gospel irrelevant to those around us, but rather to assess, analyze, and digest the status of one individual sinner so that we can make the Gospel completely relevant to the sin they are
Akromaos 2 years ago
@MrBarkley89
currently committing. Say the guy has never disobeyed his parents, so he doesn't know what it feels like when Adam disobeys God; Attack his adulterous heart, greedy hands, covetous mind, etc. Deliver the Bad News in a way it is relevant to its hearers, then Deliver the Good News on a silver platter and allow them to choose
Akromaos 2 years ago
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RobertBaral365 2 years ago
It is true that the Gospel is absolutely true in every culture and to every man. It is the Truth that transcends all of humanity. We cannot "contextualize" it by compromising its wholeness in order for it to be "relevant".
But there are many different ways to attempt to spread the Gospel, and some are more effective than others. Learning the language IS a form of contextualization, because you wouldn't be very effective if you preached the Gospel to Thai speakers in the English language.
shohisbubbleking 2 years ago
3:16
"Like a hat..." hahaha
benitosuave 2 years ago
and then on top of that, the author of 3/4 of the NT was written by Paul the Aposle.
if you deny the authorship of the bible, you've got the dead sea scrolls to go up against, many original documents, many authentic copies of historical documents, many firsthand accounts by those who suffered for the cause of Christ, who directly heard from Jesus while he was incarnate and those who, thanks to them, Christianity has spread so widely.
tuzziez 2 years ago
The NT was written way after the death of "the christ" and it is not like the Bible uses all of the dead sea scrolls it edits the ones it likes and uses those, have you ever read the full translation of the dead sea scrolls?
Rents66 2 years ago
in regard to manuscripts evidencing the validity of the bible, there are over 5000 in its original Greek manuscripts dating back to copies made within the first century of Jesus' death. So many compared to other ancient texts (such as Plato with 7, Ceasar with 10, Aristotle with 49) in fact, that to disregard the whole NT is to disregard the whole canon of western literature. it's got that much evidence.
The NT is the most evidenced ancient literature by far.
do your study before you speak.
tuzziez 2 years ago
5000? they all do testimony of the global flood that wasnt global? that amazing.
jotatsu 2 years ago
umm you don't need a bible to know there was a global flood, that the entire planet was submerged underwater.
and those 5000 manuscripts don't testify to a global flood, they testify to the death and resurrection of Jesus.
tuzziez 2 years ago
again , what global flood? 10 feet above mount everest?
And now i think i know where the original data come (5600 copies of nt) from: Ray Comfort a.k.a the banana guy.
jotatsu 2 years ago
Jotasu. You have absolutely no clue what happened 1000 or 5000 years before you were born. You can only find out by the TESTIMONY of others (verbal, pictoral, written etc). Your belief (yes belief) that you can unquestionably proove anything in the distant past is infantile, it lack's knowledge of history and science (the limitations of both disciplines) You move on faith as much as we, except that you turst in biased people with an agenda and we trust in God who prooved to us his existance
almanzor2006 2 years ago
"You can only find out by the TESTIMONY of others (verbal, pictoral, written etc). "
Thats of course when i reach a fosil, i show it to you and say "fosil". After that i show you an ice core and say "ice core", and lastly i show you the ground and say "geological layers".
"Your belief (yes belief) that you can unquestionably proove anything in the distant past is infantile"
And your strawman its pathetic.
jotatsu 2 years ago
Dude are you serious? So you find a fosil and you know exactly everything about it right ROFL no you rely on what someone tells you it is and when and how it came about. Further you must admit if you are somewhat inclined to reason and truth, that all they can come up with is educated guesses that have in some instances a very large margin of error. But of course you, indoctrinated one, never question your puppet masters and march like a good atheist socialist for the glory of your leaders.
almanzor2006 2 years ago
"So you find a fosil and you know exactly everything about it right ROFL"
And thats why strawman fallacy its recognized, i never say that, you are saying it.
"no you rely on what someone tells you it is and when and how it came about"
And he rely on data we can both verify, i cant afirm further knowldage that i can comprehend. Lucky i've bases on physics, math and chemestry to know what is radiactive decay.
jotatsu 2 years ago
Jotasu "and he rely on data we can both verify" LOL no you can't you have the average persons knowledge about radioactive Decay and that's why you think it actually works. little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Did you even go to the websites I sent you?
you said:" I'm confused... weird concept of indoctrination" well study history and find out what indoctrination is, how it works and what agents are used to accomplish it... Church? please? you are 150-300 years behind, seriously.
almanzor2006 2 years ago
"LOL no you can't you have the average persons knowledge about radioactive Decay and that's why you think it actually works."
Wow dude you know me better than i do, you know what i know and what i dont know, and better at all, do you know what is radioactive decay?
"little knowledge is a dangerous thing."
Lol, imagine religion, no knowledge, they are dangerous in extreme.
"Did you even go to the websites I sent you? "
Now thats when im worry you are a nut, you didnt send me any websites.
jotatsu 2 years ago
"Further you must admit if you are somewhat inclined to reason and truth"
Yea, im inclined to things that can be demostrated with evidence, im guilty.
"that all they can come up with is educated guesses that have in some instances a very large margin of error."
what instances are u talking about?, you sound kinda fuzzy. if you mean radiometric dating and mass spectometry, those have a calculated margin of error in the form of +/- % , that depends on the method.
jotatsu 2 years ago
"But of course you, indoctrinated one, never question your puppet masters and march like a atheist socialist for the glory of your leaders. "
im confused are u talking about religion?, you have a weird concept of indoctrination, maybe a proyection of yourself.
jotatsu 2 years ago
if you want more, check out: "Archaeology and History attest to the Reliability of the Bible," by Dr. Richard M. Fales
"A Ready Defense", by Josh Mcdowell
tuzziez 2 years ago
If you believe in a historical Jesus he most likely did not think of himself as the only son of god, he was a reformer who realized that the church and old faith were being used to stop us from living and being moral in our own world without a fear of going to hell, "dying for our sins" I do not think this is a literal physical thing this is the idea that you don't have to fear hell, you have to love and fear is the evil that is in us all, if you live for love then you will grow and be happy.
Rents66 3 years ago
the world tells us that we r good...
and Jesus tells us that we r evil
and sinful... and we r....
i dont believe in Jesus BECAUSE
i WANT TO GO TO HEAVEN
but just the fact that he made me
and how Great he is
makes EVERYONE
love and praise him
Slaught1004 2 years ago
Jesus in my view tells us nothing if you are referring to the NT it is not written by Jesus, it was written by men who were not alive when Jesus was alive and so they never heard him speak, so to say that Jesus said anything is at best a second or third hand account of what "Jesus" said, the people who wrote the NT of the bible were pagans.
Rents66 2 years ago
actually, for the Gospels, if they weren't written by the eye witness themselves (such as John), then it was written by someone on behalf of the eye witness (such as Mark), or to give "an orderly account" so that others would "know the certainty of the things", the truths of what Jesus spoke of (such as Luke)
Acts was written by Luke the physician, author of the Gospel of Luke. Luke was a companion of Paul, who had a supernatural encounter with Jesus, and also taken up to heaven before death.
tuzziez 2 years ago
There is nothing that proves that John walked with Jesus, as for the rest, yes that is what the book says happened.
Rents66 2 years ago
yes... there's nothing that proves that John walked with Jesus... apart from the fact that he said he did, and was an eye witness, and testifies to it all... geez...
tuzziez 2 years ago
Yeah, and i walked on Jupiter. Cause now people can say whatever they want and that makes it true right?
webmaster2089 2 years ago
bottom line at the end of our lifetime we will be judged and the people who have accepted Jesus Christ will have everlasting life, the people that haven't will perish in hell for eternity.
Vrbskateteam 2 years ago 2
bottom line...none of that's true. but good luck. for your sake i hope you're right. for the sake of the world i hope you're not.
webmaster2089 2 years ago
@webmaster2089 Several times in Acts we are told that he and his household were saved, but in our culture such corporate salvations are unusual and our presentations of salvation are very individualistic. Yet in clan and family cultures such tribal salvations are common. This inidividualizing of salvation is one example of how without even realizing it we have already contextualized the gospel to our culture. Even Piper does.
MyrtlePointMob 1 year ago
@MyrtlePointMob the gospel was never meant to be contextualized to our culture because it has no context in our culture. It was written two thousand years ago FOR people two thousand years ago. If we need to either take it or leave it, then I say leave it. It's more outdated than almost anything we use to construct our societies today.
webmaster2089 1 year ago
@webmaster2089
I agree.
CloudsofBliss 1 year ago
LOL! And how do you know that? Is it because you read it in the Bible? oh... will I be judged by an omnipotent father figure who threatens my soul with eternal torment if i don't believe in him? Even if I live a good life? oh... and he LOVES me too?
... well, bottom line: I reject him and anyone else who preaches fear for the sake of control. You should be ashamed for spewing such venom.
SergeofPower 2 years ago
okay then i guess all of the bible
is fake...
u got me there my little
thick headed Atheist.....
Slaught1004 2 years ago
The bible is as real as anything, I never said it wasn't real, it is not the truth for me but this does not make it unreal, I would not call myself an atheist I do believe in ID or living universe concepts.
Rents66 2 years ago
wat's an ID?
is that some kind of
New Age stuff with som parts
of Buddism?
Slaught1004 2 years ago
Intelligent Design, or "ID" is not an impossibility to me, I just cannot follow the bible.
Rents66 2 years ago
y not?
It gave out so much infomations
on the creation of the world
and life itself and yet
it just doesnt seem impossible
or else it wouldve been disproven
Slaught1004 2 years ago
I am not sure but I think you are asking me why I don't follow the bible? If so I will tell you that if I was going to follow the bible I would do so in an adverse way, the KJV or any other bible that teaches the holy trinity is based on a pagen belief system that is universal on this planet which figures since it was the catholic pagen chuch that tought this in the first place. the deciples of the bible did not walk with Jesus they were not even alive at the time do some research.
Rents66 2 years ago
What research are u substantiating right now?
plz if u actually found the bible verse in which that
the whole Christianity is surrounding the pagan belief
then give me that version
so that i may find and research it myself
Slaught1004 2 years ago
The birth of Jesus. the death of Jesus, the holidays associated with Jesus, the holy trinity the 12 deciples of Jesus they are all pagen ideas, Jews do not follow the holy trinity this was not in the Old Testiment it is a totally Catholic idea it is from the old church of rome which was pagen.
Rents66 2 years ago
u cant seriously believe everything
on the internet just because
its similar
thats the only thing similar
the TRINITY many believe is not
monotheism but it is...
its that God playing different roles
of himself...
LOL just like the beginning
of Bruce Almighty when he first meets GOD
Slaught1004 2 years ago
If I believed everything I hear on the internet I would have believed this video to make sense to me, but it didn't we all make our own truths and along the way your operating system "culture" ways in on what you can accept as truth and what you cannot, to say that the idea of the holy trinity which was not taught by the Jews and then suddenly popped up when the Catholic church "pagans" wrote the OT and NT is a little odd to me, and it makes me think that this is a pagan ideal.
Rents66 2 years ago
Slaught1004 2 years ago
Well most of what I have already mentioned is from a Christianity in Western Civilization that I read a long time ago while my wife was in college then put into my operating system to find my own truth, but if you do any research into WHO wrote the bible in a historical context you should be overwhelmed with both sides of this debate and you can then find out what it is you believe without having ever questioned it.
Rents66 2 years ago
wait plz u can save me the trouble.
it this case u are trying to convince
me...
u no where i stand in this whole debate
and i would just like to find this
info...
Slaught1004 2 years ago
Imaginefree69 3 years ago
Interesting poem. Now what is it people need to know??
andylickel1 3 years ago
I wouldn't call myself a calvinist, but John Piper always lights a fire under me.
stoney490 3 years ago 2
moron
antennadudedan 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
how can this guy think that the gospel is relevant to a starving ethiopian?
Boompass 3 years ago
the starving ethiopian's hunger will one day end, if his hope is in Christ. If not, then his hunger will be nothing compared to hell. By the way, not just for the starving Ethiopian but for every man in existence, that includes me and you. All of us need the glorious gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Just because some don't see the need or its "relevance" doesn't make it so. God sets the standards not us.
angarkitek 3 years ago 5
This has been flagged as spam show
"Don't see the need" are you a fucking retard?
What makes you think starving african children are even aware that there is a choice?
Noone needs Jesus, it's a delusion, end of.
Boompass 3 years ago
Wow that's a pretty foregone conclusion ... You say u don't need Jesus therefore "none needs Jesus" . And your premise is based on what? But first can you explain why places like China gets to have the fastest growing number of Christians ? The culture is completely different from any western society so it can't be cultural
jamesonblues 3 years ago
You know within the very depths of your soul that Jesus is the truth. That is why you are so defensive about it. You just brought up the example of starving ethiopian. But what about you. You are going to die and face a Holy God, who will judge you on every sin have comitted and every evil thought you contemplated. There are starving ethiopians who are saved and passionate about Christ. God gives a chance to everyone. You know that God exists... You Know It.......
VisionaryAmbition 3 years ago
"You know within the very depths of your soul that Jesus is the truth. "
Judging the heart of people you've never met
is arrogant, manipulative, ignorant, and odiously christian.
You have no right to do that.
Imaginefree69 3 years ago
it was humans that wrote the bible. so it was humans who wrote the standards in the bible. they just used an alias by saying god did this.
Rebootrevival 3 years ago
"the starving ethiopian's hunger will one day end, if his hope is in Christ. If not, then his hunger will be nothing compared to hell"
The excuse used by tyrants for ages.
Also a wonderful, pious excuse
to avoid the commands of Jesus
to feed the hungry and assist the needy.
A substitute for integrity.
One pair of helping hands
is infinitely more valuable
than a thousand pairs of hands folded in prayer.
Imaginefree69 3 years ago
@angarkitek its not so much the lack of "need or relevance" as it is the lack of logic and morality. but keep telling yourself you are right.
micwat49 1 year ago
If it is true that it is better to enter heaven with one guy gouged out than hell (Mat. 5:28) than it is better to enter heaven starving than hell full. Better be a poor and starving ethiopian who knows Jesus than a rich and selfish american who claims to know him but does not what he commands.
jgrig2 3 years ago 2
This comment has received too many negative votes show
There is no urgency to preach the gospel. No consequence. God did not preach the urgent gospel to adam and the exodus. Where was hell in those epic displays? These Calvinists follow a prejudice and bias god who withholds the keys to his cozy house from his Children of abraham. Some jews are unsaved. What possible reason would god have for not saving everyone sovereignly? Oh, the convenient "hidden counsel of god". What good is that if we never will find out what it is? Leaves me in infinite fear
dave1122drum 3 years ago
God has revealed what he need to know. We have his promises thus no need to fear.
jgrig2 3 years ago
I love this, "It isn't complicated. It's just mind-blowing".
AsTheDeer 3 years ago
i love mindblowing things that are simple. i think it's the simplicity of things that are so mind-blowing. complex things tend to take more time to process, ya know.
legodesi 3 years ago
Before you show more ignorance, no I do not talk with serpents
pelman203 3 years ago
just because you can't understand the language doesn't mean they can't "talk"
pelman203 3 years ago
cougarsrule45: Yes. Piper is talking about the inherited sinful condition of mankind from Adam.
PLOG300 4 years ago
scepticchristian--you bring up some wonderful points, and there are some Scriptures that may help clarify some things. Christ has saved us from more than the consequence of sin; we have been recreated in His own likeness when we come to trust Him through faith by grace alone. We are reborn as new creatures. Jesus spoke of this in John 3. Paul in Romans 7 says that sin within Him does evil, not himself (v. 20). The sin within Him is at war with his mind.
PLOG300 4 years ago
Anyone mind awnsering this.
When Piper says "you may not agree with it", is he talking about the doctrine of original sin?
thanks
cougarsrule45 4 years ago
yes, we may not agree with the truth but it is still The Truth.
KnowWhatIsTrue 4 years ago
2-2 "It is BECAUSE we sin that sends us to hell". No, it is because of Adam's sin. Technically (although scripture says we've all sinned) if we never sinned, we'd still be damned. Yes, the Bible also tells us that all have come short and should pay the price and it talks about weighing sins and works and being judged on this and also on grace alone through faith. This is contentious.
My question remains, "what is a Christian (or) how (every possible way) can we be saved?
scepticchristian 4 years ago
In the words of Jesus, you can tell a tree by the fruit that it produces. Bad trees cannot produce good fruit (Luke 6:43). The entire human nature is infected with inherited disease from Adam (Rom. 5:12). Death rules over us (v. 17), and we became sinners because of that disobediance (v. 19). So it is impossible for us as humans with an inherited sinful nature to never sin as the scenario above presupposes.
PLOG300 4 years ago
I meant the scenario of scepticchristian presupposes.
PLOG300 4 years ago
1-2 Hi Cougarsrule45 and eagles5o7,
"Once we become Christians it is the sin in us, not us that sins" I'd love to speak to your pastor or teacher! Sin comes from the same source, Christian or not. The difference is merely (in evangelical theology) that Jesus has saved 'us' from the consequence of it...
scepticchristian 4 years ago
You are also totally unsure as to whether you are born into sin or not. Let me save you asking; you're pastor will tell you that you were born into sin due to Adam.
What concerns me here is that it is SO important to know this according to your denomination, yet so many within it are unsure.
TEll me, what is a Christian OR how is salvation obtained - all possible ways please.
scepticchristian 4 years ago
scepticchristian,
Piper's exactly right.
That's the gospel. What Piper said about Adam, and then Jesus, that's the basic pure gospel. Now the gospel does more than just bring the news about how to get saved. The gospel ALSO strengthens us. It has several applications. But this one that Piper is talking about now is in my opinion THE most important.
cougarsrule45 4 years ago
Hi Genuchelu, thanks.
What I believe you are saying is: I'll just check WHAT MY DENOMINATION TELLS ME I BELIEVE via a better scholar than myself. This surely demonstrates the complexity and diversity within Christendom and the utterly impossible task of securing clear understanding of even the most key points (see my last sentence in the next post). Few Christians check the Bible themselves for doctrinal answers.
scepticchristian 4 years ago
There seems to be some confussion in this video presentation about guilt being from Adam's inherited sin and our own actual sin.
If I did not sin in theory, I assume you believe that I'd still be damned to eternal hellfire for what someome else (Adam) did of which I had no part?
Is this what the Christian God/Bible teaches as acceptible (so others reading this can know).
Thanks.
scepticchristian 4 years ago
I will double check, but I think that: its not that you inherit Adam's sins, but rather inherit the need to sin. We were born sinless in a sinful world. Because we grow in sin, we are technically sinners. That why we needed that salvation of Jesus Christ.
genuchelu 4 years ago
i'm pretty sure we are born sinful in a sinful world....our very nature is sinful and thus we love to sin....once we become Christians we still sin but it is the sin in us that does it, not ourselves (because we move from being slaves of sin to slaves of righteousness)
eagles5o7 4 years ago
scepticchristian,
If you never sinned, you would not be damned to hell fire because we are only guilty through our actions. What piper is saying though, is that due to Adam's sin it is INEVITABLE that we will all one day sin. Adam through his sin made us all sinners. Just like a hopper will hop, a flyer will fly, a painter will paint, a sinner will sin.
cougarsrule45 4 years ago
If you have never sinned ,you are seriously DULL
ps science has clearly established that serpents have not evolved the ability to talk. If you believe otherwise you need to attend some biology classes
bufantas 4 years ago
The word in the Masoretic text (the original Hebrew) that is translated as serpent doesn't necessarily refer to the animal. Serpents, in many cultures have been and are regarded as evil, therefore it is suggested that serpent here refers to satan. Just a thought...
JBC1210 3 years ago
Another Mythical creature then....
bufantas 3 years ago
No, just a common representation of pure evil.
JBC1210 3 years ago
what , like accordion music?
bufantas 3 years ago
Haha! I would be inclined to agree with you! But, in this case let's think a little more farther up on the "evil spectrum."
JBC1210 3 years ago
Oh , you mean properly evil , like George Bush
bufantas 3 years ago
if people are automatically charged with sin, does that not then make it pointless to bother trying to not sin, being as it is expected of us? If God is all knowing why did god not skip making Adam being god would or should have known Adam would sin? (sniff,sniff,sniff, I smell bullshit!)
satanchrist666 4 years ago
Good thought, but I wouldn't stop at calling BS. Sinful actions are a symptom of sinful people. Because Adam sinned, we all become "sinners." Our actions make this fact clear by committing "sins." Gods laws were given so that it would be clear that we ARE sinners, not so that we could attempt to follow it to the point of not being a sinner.
benitosuave 4 years ago
Thank you for this video Aaron. I listened to his, "Demonstration of Gods Righteousness parts 2 and 3" the other day...it was MIND BLOWING! Thank God for grace... =)
nathanielmacrae 4 years ago
yep very well done
heartforthelost 4 years ago
very well put. He is exactly correct.
blessedvic 4 years ago