Not plug and play when it comes to notebook hard drives. I tried doing this with a 750gb seagate 2.5inch notebook hard drive and with the new board on, the drive does not even spin up.
I also have a laptop drive that crashed. It was failing about a month or so before it finally went out back in July of 2009. A tech shop couldn't recover a thing but let me keep the drive. It's now waiting in a safe. I can just imagine right now it's hoping for the day that it can receive the technological care that can help give back everything I lost on it. Any way that can happen?
@germanname1990 Have a look at hddguru but keep in mind technican hardware and software costs thousands of dollars and you could spend years learning using older hard drives.
The costs have to do with regaining investment money and is unfortunatelt a necessity.. in time, when equipment has indeed been recovered I am sure the companies will provide 'scalable' solutions; i.e. only a controller failure? (ok, then only 100 euros say, even less et. etc.)... The companies charge much as they invest in : clean rooms, ionized chambers, varous part,s technicians, digital equipment bla bla... so to start a data recovery company requires a massive initial investment.
Let me try and clear up some things. You fried your first HDD's drive by shorting it on accident. It is an easy fix because you still have the same information stored you just need a drive. the other board didn't work because it was probably a old type of interface. The other drive worked because it probably had the same sata interface. It showed up as 40GB on your computer because that is what the drive's data was set to name it. The drive still had 80GB of memory.
I got a computer virus today. its some HDD control thing and it has deleted almost everything on my computer. it keeps telling me "critical error" windows can't find any hard disk space. I need to do my work on this computer so if you can help me it would be very appreciated. I have tried antivirus software, however the virus still lives on :(
You got lucky with this drive. I'd like to see you do something more complex than this. You could have repaired this with out even using a donor HDD. If you had a data recovery business you would know this. Go buy one with your $2000 and let me know how you go. $2000 won't even get you basic equipment...be careful when trying to repair your HDD's people, it could cost you more in the long run.
@RustyRustler I wouldn't recommend this technique for people who have data which is extremely important to them. I had client document backups, but no backups for some of my home videos and photos. Since they weren't that important I decided to try and use Frankenstein's technique for bringing a hard drive back to working order. It worked, so what me worry.
How else would you repair a problem such as the one I had?
I recently bought a used Toshiba laptoP. A friend ordered recovery discs for Vista home Premium, and the computer looked salvaged. But now it says the hard disk needs to be repaired. After doing a backup, what is my next course of action?
nice video but i have a question suppose i have a 20 gig hdd and want to change the board onto a 80 gig hdd will it work?oh and there both IDE hard drive.
I was all set to post my thanks today because I'd saved my porn (and okay, maybe I have some boring documents that I really need) but my other 40 GB drive, bought at the same time from the same vendor, is actually a different model so I can't swap the control boards! Now I have to search the Internet for a match which made me wonder why there isn't a controller emulator available to let my computer control the hard drive directly. I've seen kits to built your own from scratch but no emulators.
Very helpful video. I lost a couple hard drives over the years hardly ever backed them up mate. I saved them and now i'm going to try to recover the lost data thank's to your video and a couple other's on here.
Your maths is terrible... $10 - $2000 = $1990 not $1900 lol... unless those screwdrivers cost you $100... :) in which case, you have been ripped off sir!
@antecedo $10 - $2000= $-1990. You probably mean $2000 - $10. Yes then it is going to be your desired number wich is more positive then negative. Lol.
@antecedo The retard in this video mentioned how Seagate "cheaps out" by not covering the PCB board on the drives. NO manufacturer does, Seagate used to do it like a friggin' royalty feature, but no one else ever did.
I had a 500 gig seagate drive which had everything on it. It was worth alot and the MBR and Partition table was destroyed. Everyone told me it was impossible to recover anything once the Partition Table was gone. 3 days later back up and running.
well, what could have happened, when my 1 t. sata disk, suddenly wont start? When I turned on my pc, the sata disk was gone. The only disk that was on "my computer" was the C disk, and my T. disk was another, and that wont show icon, or work. Could it been any of that I am using Windows 7, or the computer just "forgot" the terra disk.?
my brother had a power supply with the input cable dangling on bare solder joints and put 250V (for +/-0.2 Secs due to safety features) through everything in his case, the HDD survived but the onboard firmware had (partially?) erased, so i hooked it to linux, lucky the kernel bypassed BIOS Calls and used direct access on the disk and i recovered most of his data!
lesson: linux can come in handy sometimes,
ps his supply had a gaping Arc hole in its casing under a reservoir capacitor!
you are very lucky that you managed to do this. I have a 40GB Maxtor drive broken which fell off once and then I was never able to use it again. It turns on if I connect it BIOS recoginzes the drive and writes the half of its name onto the screen but then it says primary master hard disk fails. I can go further but then it's not recognized. Guys do you have any ideas to fix it? Should i disassemble it or i must not even touch it. Thank you for your help.
Swapping platters is not anywhere near as easy as you think.
For one, when removing platters you have to ensure that no matter what the heads do not come in contact with each other. They are also extremely delicate so a great deal of care must be taken.
Secondly, and this is the big one, in multi-platter drives, swapping platters to another drive requires specialized tools, since the alignment of the platters relative to each other is CRITICAL.
As little as a thousandth of a millimeter misalignment between the platter renders the data unrecoverable.
Basically as soon as you loosen those screws holding the platters to the spindle, the alignment is already done for, unless you have the specialized tools to prevent it.
I agree that $2000 to swap out board is completely ridiculous, but when it gets more complex and heads or platters need to be swapped, it takes a lot of time, precision, and special tools.
I managed to replace a platter on a seagate barracuda, I did it in my kitchen and I did it fairly quickly just to test out whether its possible. Anyway, I put the drive back together and fired it up and it worked! If you screw it in properly, i.e. with equal torque on all the screws, you can get away with doing that.. but theres not much sense in swapping a platter yourself, its too risky. better to replace the board or if it's a head or motor problem, just take it to a recovery place..
I never was removing or installing the drive with the pc on or even plugged into the power supply. The pc tower is badly designed and the metal in the hdd bay was warped underneath the drive. the metal shorted out the drive. I have insulated the new hard drive since this happened.
@neoartifact You can't short a any component in a computer unless there's power going to it. Unplug the drive next time. Either that or the drive failed for other reasons.
Hi, My seagate barracuda has suddenly failed to be recognized. The drive spins fine but there is slight burning smell on the PCB - I am planning to do what you have done - and will be buying a replica new drive to get the pcb off. Is there any soldering required?
HAHAHAHAHAHA. this is the funniest thing i ever seen with a hard drive. that hard drive is FUCKED UP man. that sound in the spring inside going down from the arm. thats not a good thing when u hear noises but i never heard a nois like that from a hard drive. LMFAO
funny video and funny comments... i work for a data recovery company and can assure you that simple dumb board swap as described will work approximately in 5 percent of all cases, simple dumb bathroom-platters-swap as planned by the author will NEVER work...
I fried my hard drive and this video saved my a**! It was very easy..just unscrew the screws and change the circuit board. The trick is to get the identical hard drive. Ebay was the answer for that.
It's really a unscrew-plug-play job. Most drives are modular in construction so you are easily able to interchange parts of the same product series. I used a 40 gig board on a 80 gig drive block of the same series at the 40 gig and it worked albeit some slight imperfections in the way the head was reading. In cases like these, EBay is your friend indeed. Glad to be of help. Cheers.
Great video.... I was wondering though if you could post a video tutorial on how to actually replace the board. I have a hard drive that I recently fried by accident. It happened by using an external hard drive enclosure, but with the wrong power supply (Not the one that was provided with it because I lost that one). The end result was that I fried one of the chips on the board.
That weird clicking sound was probably coming from the reader heads. They might scratch the platter and lost your data forever. Actually the thing you did was really risky. But you made it man. Congrats! =)
It depends how sensitive your data is. Giving up a grand for some is no problem compared to the need for the data. It's a ripoff in my opinion because they give you so little options. It's either yay or nay, and no deals.
A torx (sometimes torque) screwdriver is a star shaped screwdriver. Your hard drive might have philips head or something else. Mine had Torx type screws. Be careful with what you are doing and plan, plan, plan before you act.
Thanks a lot! You realy saved me with this video! I did the same on a WD2500 and I was able to recover all of my data.
donderlanden 2 months ago
Dude, 2000 - 10 = 1990 lol
thesloc 3 months ago
whats the name of the song in 0:00
TheChernandez2020 4 months ago
Who thinks that this dude talks to much give me a hell yeah!!!
jeem680 5 months ago
$10-$2000=$1990!!!!!
YOU'RE NOT GOOD AT MATH LOL.
theagrafiotis 5 months ago
Comment removed
LOLDISNEYLAND 5 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
next time -- cut out the chat -- your not funny dickhead
darkmatrix80 7 months ago
@darkmatrix80 Next time, be more polite and maybe I might respect and enact your "creative" input. Cheers.
neoartifact 7 months ago 8
@darkmatrix80 lol.
Mrbobodigital 3 months ago
all i need is my emulater saves and all my other stuff is on accounts
wizard101musicpics 8 months ago
Not plug and play when it comes to notebook hard drives. I tried doing this with a 750gb seagate 2.5inch notebook hard drive and with the new board on, the drive does not even spin up.
tech951 8 months ago
1:06-1:16 Parakeet!
crackadawg 9 months ago
@crackadawg Yes! He always talks over everyone and we have to speak louder as a result. :D
webnothing 9 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Farstone@DriveClone offers backup & recovery
Marychen91207 9 months ago
You forget to put the HDD in the frying pan.
zapper067 9 months ago
@zapper067 Ah damn I put it in the oven instead.
webnothing 9 months ago
I also have a laptop drive that crashed. It was failing about a month or so before it finally went out back in July of 2009. A tech shop couldn't recover a thing but let me keep the drive. It's now waiting in a safe. I can just imagine right now it's hoping for the day that it can receive the technological care that can help give back everything I lost on it. Any way that can happen?
germanname1990 9 months ago
@germanname1990 Have a look at hddguru but keep in mind technican hardware and software costs thousands of dollars and you could spend years learning using older hard drives.
tech951 8 months ago
@tech951 I understand that, but like I said about technology, I can still wait as it may be worth it in the end.
germanname1990 8 months ago
thanks for the video! Please do your best & help me, can I use this technique for my HDD? watch?v=-06b0Uxcj2Q
thanks
xpoondiggy 10 months ago
Great, something like that happened to my drive, but the only identical one i have is IDE and its a laptop drive -- Any tips?
RevolvoDoOr 10 months ago
Quick and stupid question, but what defines a 'faulty' drive?
For instance, if the circuit board isn't fried would it be safe to hook it up via IDE cable if it's simply corrupted?
CrazyGrapefruit 11 months ago
too much blubbering bob and a little work.
foxbhoy288 11 months ago
and what if your spindle is busted?
HabitualEcstasy 1 year ago
That sound sure made me shiver...
Snuskigaste 1 year ago
The costs have to do with regaining investment money and is unfortunatelt a necessity.. in time, when equipment has indeed been recovered I am sure the companies will provide 'scalable' solutions; i.e. only a controller failure? (ok, then only 100 euros say, even less et. etc.)... The companies charge much as they invest in : clean rooms, ionized chambers, varous part,s technicians, digital equipment bla bla... so to start a data recovery company requires a massive initial investment.
lakmilis 1 year ago
Let me try and clear up some things. You fried your first HDD's drive by shorting it on accident. It is an easy fix because you still have the same information stored you just need a drive. the other board didn't work because it was probably a old type of interface. The other drive worked because it probably had the same sata interface. It showed up as 40GB on your computer because that is what the drive's data was set to name it. The drive still had 80GB of memory.
link1478 1 year ago
I got a computer virus today. its some HDD control thing and it has deleted almost everything on my computer. it keeps telling me "critical error" windows can't find any hard disk space. I need to do my work on this computer so if you can help me it would be very appreciated. I have tried antivirus software, however the virus still lives on :(
Dec2012omg 1 year ago
This cool my friend - you have helped my confidence in trying this myself. I'll let you know my results when i'm done
DaboothofTruth 1 year ago
You can never be so clean cleaning HDDs at home, not unless you are inside Intel or AMD's manufacturing factory -- their rooms are very clean!
1AppleMaker 1 year ago
The posts in this thread are disturbing...
RustyRustler 1 year ago
You got lucky with this drive. I'd like to see you do something more complex than this. You could have repaired this with out even using a donor HDD. If you had a data recovery business you would know this. Go buy one with your $2000 and let me know how you go. $2000 won't even get you basic equipment...be careful when trying to repair your HDD's people, it could cost you more in the long run.
RustyRustler 1 year ago
@RustyRustler I wouldn't recommend this technique for people who have data which is extremely important to them. I had client document backups, but no backups for some of my home videos and photos. Since they weren't that important I decided to try and use Frankenstein's technique for bringing a hard drive back to working order. It worked, so what me worry.
How else would you repair a problem such as the one I had?
LOLDISNEYLAND 1 year ago
hey does replacing the green circuit board on the back void the warranty?!!!!! please respond
Gamerchris92 1 year ago
sounds nasty good it works
SMASHITFORTHELULZ 1 year ago
I recently bought a used Toshiba laptoP. A friend ordered recovery discs for Vista home Premium, and the computer looked salvaged. But now it says the hard disk needs to be repaired. After doing a backup, what is my next course of action?
OmwanaX 1 year ago
nice video but i have a question suppose i have a 20 gig hdd and want to change the board onto a 80 gig hdd will it work?oh and there both IDE hard drive.
SHAWNANN1000 1 year ago
sorry to hear about your porn :(
tigerintermusic 1 year ago
I was all set to post my thanks today because I'd saved my porn (and okay, maybe I have some boring documents that I really need) but my other 40 GB drive, bought at the same time from the same vendor, is actually a different model so I can't swap the control boards! Now I have to search the Internet for a match which made me wonder why there isn't a controller emulator available to let my computer control the hard drive directly. I've seen kits to built your own from scratch but no emulators.
KevinADCarter 1 year ago 3
Hey, is this a Seagate 40gb hard drive?
PKMotoren 1 year ago
Very helpful video. I lost a couple hard drives over the years hardly ever backed them up mate. I saved them and now i'm going to try to recover the lost data thank's to your video and a couple other's on here.
Cheers
usa2cc272 1 year ago
''Movies, photos... lots of data... em.. **porn** ??lol great vid
mathias921 1 year ago
@mathias921 I'm here because my porn drive just failed. Sure, there was other stuff on there too, but I have to save my porn!
KevinADCarter 1 year ago
@KevinADCarter Indeed.
mathias921 1 year ago
Your maths is terrible... $10 - $2000 = $1990 not $1900 lol... unless those screwdrivers cost you $100... :) in which case, you have been ripped off sir!
antecedo 1 year ago 6
@antecedo $10 - $2000= $-1990. You probably mean $2000 - $10. Yes then it is going to be your desired number wich is more positive then negative. Lol.
AdmiNLocK 1 year ago
@antecedo your cool!!!
khmerog1 1 year ago
@antecedo lol wow, what an anal comment
xpoondiggy 1 year ago
@antecedo And even you get it wrong, 10 - 2000 = -1990 .. :L
KooKas2oo8 1 year ago
@antecedo Maybe it was a typo
MaxwellRecowell 1 year ago
@antecedo Your maths is terrible... $10 - $2000 = $1990 not $1900 lol???
You'll find that the correct equation is $2000-$10=$1990 not $-1990
patsf1 5 months ago
@antecedo The retard in this video mentioned how Seagate "cheaps out" by not covering the PCB board on the drives. NO manufacturer does, Seagate used to do it like a friggin' royalty feature, but no one else ever did.
KingMacintosh 4 months ago
After swapping my pcb motherboard with the same model it still did not read the drive.
There are no clicking noises but the HDD is powering on normally.
Now I think I have to freeze it.
MEGAXSTU 1 year ago
@MEGAXSTU lol...noob! Is it a Barracudda 7200.11? Don't freeze your drive man...ever!
RustyRustler 1 year ago
@RustyRustler
It was fun to try, everyone thought I was crazy LOL. I had no idea how to fix the actuator arm or perform a head swap, so it was a last resort.
You can avoid failure to begin with using S.M.A.R.T software.
MEGAXSTU 1 year ago
totally awsome !
sOsDidit 1 year ago
I had a 500 gig seagate drive which had everything on it. It was worth alot and the MBR and Partition table was destroyed. Everyone told me it was impossible to recover anything once the Partition Table was gone. 3 days later back up and running.
don818 1 year ago
what and how did you insulate it with?
reverman0381 1 year ago
Is all SATA the same? Beacuse I have to of them and they have different connection. Do I need a converter?
uphill248 2 years ago
Hey what kind of screw. Drivers did u use I want to get some.
hemii13 2 years ago
Mini torx screwdriver
jblackrupert 1 year ago
This PCB swap system works with all the disks very well. In Western Digital disks allmost all the boards are compatible.
Can you make a video of the swapping of the platters, please? You can do it cheaply with some old disk....
I do not have a video camera but I know one can connedt 12 volts directly to motor connections to bring a dead disk alive and recover a data from it.
Thank you for the good video!!!
Peterpancase 2 years ago
@Peterpancase this is all utter BullShit
RustyRustler 1 year ago
Lmao VISTA Sucked before but Vista made a awesome update soo dont downgrae you PC/LAPTOPS!
pal506 2 years ago
pal506: Is that sarcastic?
liquidoxygen0 2 years ago
@liquidoxygen0 No its updated now Download Downgrade :)_
pal506 2 years ago
well, what could have happened, when my 1 t. sata disk, suddenly wont start? When I turned on my pc, the sata disk was gone. The only disk that was on "my computer" was the C disk, and my T. disk was another, and that wont show icon, or work. Could it been any of that I am using Windows 7, or the computer just "forgot" the terra disk.?
jera3 2 years ago
if it's a Seagate 7200.11 drive then you need to do the fix in this video.
watch?v=29FztWJVxbM
jblackrupert 1 year ago
??? Why would you touch a circuit? That mess it up badly :D !
colinpownz 2 years ago
He never said that he touched it. Re-read the video description carefully -_-
produKtNZ 2 years ago
my brother had a power supply with the input cable dangling on bare solder joints and put 250V (for +/-0.2 Secs due to safety features) through everything in his case, the HDD survived but the onboard firmware had (partially?) erased, so i hooked it to linux, lucky the kernel bypassed BIOS Calls and used direct access on the disk and i recovered most of his data!
lesson: linux can come in handy sometimes,
ps his supply had a gaping Arc hole in its casing under a reservoir capacitor!
RavinTekman 2 years ago
you are very lucky that you managed to do this. I have a 40GB Maxtor drive broken which fell off once and then I was never able to use it again. It turns on if I connect it BIOS recoginzes the drive and writes the half of its name onto the screen but then it says primary master hard disk fails. I can go further but then it's not recognized. Guys do you have any ideas to fix it? Should i disassemble it or i must not even touch it. Thank you for your help.
666Black666Rose666 2 years ago
@666Black666Rose666 FYI Scott Moulton has done a series of videos here on utube on this.
He says you need to get another board from an drive that is the same model etc and very close to the same date of manufacture.
as to opening the drive you need to build a small box and then place the drive inside it before taking it apart.
whiskeyify 2 years ago
you save 1990 xD not 1900 =]
Gooshnads 2 years ago
i am looking for a 1tb board so i can get the data off mine since seagate doesn't know how to write firmware these days
parablepoetry 2 years ago
Swapping platters is not anywhere near as easy as you think.
For one, when removing platters you have to ensure that no matter what the heads do not come in contact with each other. They are also extremely delicate so a great deal of care must be taken.
Secondly, and this is the big one, in multi-platter drives, swapping platters to another drive requires specialized tools, since the alignment of the platters relative to each other is CRITICAL.
TehMG 2 years ago
As little as a thousandth of a millimeter misalignment between the platter renders the data unrecoverable.
Basically as soon as you loosen those screws holding the platters to the spindle, the alignment is already done for, unless you have the specialized tools to prevent it.
I agree that $2000 to swap out board is completely ridiculous, but when it gets more complex and heads or platters need to be swapped, it takes a lot of time, precision, and special tools.
TehMG 2 years ago
I managed to replace a platter on a seagate barracuda, I did it in my kitchen and I did it fairly quickly just to test out whether its possible. Anyway, I put the drive back together and fired it up and it worked! If you screw it in properly, i.e. with equal torque on all the screws, you can get away with doing that.. but theres not much sense in swapping a platter yourself, its too risky. better to replace the board or if it's a head or motor problem, just take it to a recovery place..
LOLDISNEYLAND 2 years ago
Yeah, single platter hard drives are no big deal.
What I was talking about is multi-platter hard drives. As much as one micron of difference one platter relative to the other screws everything up.
TehMG 2 years ago
lol @ that message u have on ur video for the hard drive recovery companies. thanx
tppengo 2 years ago
try installing it with the pc off next time you never install or remove a drive from a pluged in pc
itscool1968 2 years ago
I never was removing or installing the drive with the pc on or even plugged into the power supply. The pc tower is badly designed and the metal in the hdd bay was warped underneath the drive. the metal shorted out the drive. I have insulated the new hard drive since this happened.
neoartifact 2 years ago
@neoartifact You can't short a any component in a computer unless there's power going to it. Unplug the drive next time. Either that or the drive failed for other reasons.
Raxarax 11 months ago
Mine sounds like: Tik tik tik tik!...... Tik tik tik tik!.....
Anoying as fuck! Is my drive broke? Please help me
Tawaxyon 3 years ago
yeah very soon it will die and it will say no hard drive found when your next boot up
redman6657 3 years ago
Already bought a new one xD
Tawaxyon 3 years ago
i mean boot from windows from the repair drive
ongchorcool 3 years ago
Hey,i can remove the hard drive logic board from my trashed dell desktop and replace the logic board, then i can boot fro
ongchorcool 3 years ago
Hi, My seagate barracuda has suddenly failed to be recognized. The drive spins fine but there is slight burning smell on the PCB - I am planning to do what you have done - and will be buying a replica new drive to get the pcb off. Is there any soldering required?
chanaws 3 years ago
HAHAHAHAHAHA. this is the funniest thing i ever seen with a hard drive. that hard drive is FUCKED UP man. that sound in the spring inside going down from the arm. thats not a good thing when u hear noises but i never heard a nois like that from a hard drive. LMFAO
checkerace49 3 years ago
funny video and funny comments... i work for a data recovery company and can assure you that simple dumb board swap as described will work approximately in 5 percent of all cases, simple dumb bathroom-platters-swap as planned by the author will NEVER work...
UNCLETEDDY123 3 years ago
I fried my hard drive and this video saved my a**! It was very easy..just unscrew the screws and change the circuit board. The trick is to get the identical hard drive. Ebay was the answer for that.
joshcohen67 3 years ago
It's really a unscrew-plug-play job. Most drives are modular in construction so you are easily able to interchange parts of the same product series. I used a 40 gig board on a 80 gig drive block of the same series at the 40 gig and it worked albeit some slight imperfections in the way the head was reading. In cases like these, EBay is your friend indeed. Glad to be of help. Cheers.
neoartifact 3 years ago
Please show the procedure to interchange the Motherboard and reconnection
vulcano911 3 years ago
Could you check your message inbox, please? it is very important.
Thank you.
vulcano911 3 years ago
wow that was so slick
laynesamba 3 years ago
Perfect! if you were posted this 5 days before it could have been my perfect birthday gift :)
Pauninggio 3 years ago
Great video.... I was wondering though if you could post a video tutorial on how to actually replace the board. I have a hard drive that I recently fried by accident. It happened by using an external hard drive enclosure, but with the wrong power supply (Not the one that was provided with it because I lost that one). The end result was that I fried one of the chips on the board.
onebad84 3 years ago
torque screwdrivers
ridenslide1 3 years ago
torx screwdrivers
lol torque is the turning/pulling power of a engine
SniperScopeSE7EN 3 years ago
oops my bad lol
ridenslide1 3 years ago
lucky me we have a same hd thanks
baiba1988 3 years ago
nice1
m3sca1 3 years ago
That weird clicking sound was probably coming from the reader heads. They might scratch the platter and lost your data forever. Actually the thing you did was really risky. But you made it man. Congrats! =)
rotharr 3 years ago
hi i love the end credits good job mate
barronvonlickenstein 4 years ago
It depends how sensitive your data is. Giving up a grand for some is no problem compared to the need for the data. It's a ripoff in my opinion because they give you so little options. It's either yay or nay, and no deals.
A torx (sometimes torque) screwdriver is a star shaped screwdriver. Your hard drive might have philips head or something else. Mine had Torx type screws. Be careful with what you are doing and plan, plan, plan before you act.
Cheers.
neoartifact 4 years ago
Thank you for the video. I will give it a try.
That is right those data recovery compaNIES IS A RIP OFF.
By the way would you tell me please:
What is a tock screwdriver?
Is it how you spell it?
worldkeepers 4 years ago