I honestly hate to say this but the best way for e-sports to eliminate this camping problem is make a rule that says if you don't approach within 2-3 minutes you forfeit. And if players like Hbox ignore the rule ban them from tournaments. The integrity of Melee should be more important to the smash community.
Hungrybox is just playing within the limits of what SSBM will allow him. And Melee allows him to play really safe and defensive and it works out really well. If you see this and don't enjoy it, play a different game.
"We know how to approach-- why might lose doing it--" This is the problem. These players are playing TO WIN. Not to play "fairly" or be liked. If approaching is a losing strategy, and you want to win, don't do it.
I'm tired of Melee players having such scrub mentalities.
This fucking mentality that camping is OK is killing all competitive games in general. Every fighter now from melee to street fighter everyone just creates space and camps. In shooters no one ever moves unless their with a team mate. People in Starcraft II constantly use gay all in cheese builds and ruin the game for everyone else. Good job you won some money at the cost of video games not being about skill and more about treating the game like your in a real war.
the first time i watched this video, i was angry at hmw's bitching. however, after watching the most depressing grand finals ever in apex 2012, i understand where he is coming from, and even though i understand theyre both playing to win, it's just not the type of match id like to see, especially in grand finals. it's matches like these that make the people who call brawl gay eat there words
it only pisses me off because these are 8 MINUTES of fuck all on a 4 stock, if your gonna do this do it on 4 or 5 minutes, I can finish a BRAWL match 7 stock in 8 friggin minutes.
HBox's Jiggs will NEVER beat Armada's YLink. It has nothing to do with HBox "not knowing how to approach," it's the matchup. Jiggs CAN'T approach YLink. All YLink needs to do is wait in his shield with a bomb. THAT'S IT. It shuts down all of Jiggs' approach options. If Jiggs hits the shield and doesn't space correctly, YLink just fullhops OoS and Jiggs eats a N-Air or bomb. If Jiggs spaces or tries to bait or whatever, YLink just jumps or rolls away and you have a reset. Jiggs simply can't win.
@lamdash I agree that it's implausible, but I still think it could be done. I mean. That shield keeps getting smaller as long as Puff keeps the pressure on, and YL has to toss that bomb eventually. I think with SH nairs and fairs (moves that stay out longer than bair), it'd be doable (this is of course assuming a very skilled player). There were times that Hbox seemed to get the right idea--ex. fake an aerial into a grab, start combo. But then he'd start full hop bairing and lose.
I dont give a shit what anyone says, but Waffles is complaining the whole first match and then with 20 seconds left get super hype "WOW THAT WAS AMAZING" lol
Man, no offense to the guys raging over the commentator, but you guys are probably just a bunch of butthurt hbox/armada fans. Yeah you're right, HMW was rude and obnoxious but these matches were NOT in ANY way entertaining. Yes they play to win and YES they did play gay. No it wasn't strategy unless you call "camping like a pathetic person" strategy. Props to Hbox, who didn't play nearly as gay as Armada. I used to have respect for Armada too....
@B3atSt1ck Okay then, please inform me rather than be so quick to put me down. I know Hbox plays very gay and just throws bairs out like there's no tomorrow but at least he was trying to approach. Not like armada who reached a new level of gay playing. What armada did was so pathetic it hurt that I cheered for him in his previous matches.
@MrSoupMonster You call CPing KJ64 "trying to approach"? He only approached when and because Armada had the lead. Too bad for Armada that was most of the time, maybe you would've liked him better if he lost?
Armada has hated Puff since before playing any good Puffs, and now he's getting his revenge. Yes he wanted to time-out Hbox. Not because he likes to time-out, he just hates it less than playing against Puff.
@ajpanton Like I said I was cheering for armada, but to me it seemed hbox was trying to learn to approach... except that first match which was the worst thing in smash history I've ever seen.
For years, this innocent Jew... er, Armada, has been tortured and taking shit from the Naz... Puffs. What would you do if you one day possessed the tools to break free and pay back all the suffering?
@ajpanton (and also Armada, I suppose) Now, I don't think Jiggs is a "gay" character But it seems like you do (and Armada is on the record as calling her gay and saying she "deserves" Young Link). I don't think the YL campy stuffs is bad or wrong either, but I'm just wondering how what Armada's doing is any better. I'm not trying to criticize, and sorry if this seems rude, but I'm legitimately curious as to how what Armada is doing is "different" in your (and his) perspective.
@MrSoupMonster FYI I don't think Hbox plays "gay". I admire him for being able to use the very basics of Jiggs to the extent where he's the 4th best player in the world. His spacing and decision making are both extremely good.
The part of your post that I disagree with is where you say that what Armada did wasn't strategy. After getting 5-0d by Hbox at Apex, he realized his shortcomings and came up with a new counterpick. How is that not strategy? This wasn't even the first time. Pound V was.
Around 170 bairs LAST match from Apex is a big reason I pick Y link against him now.
No offense but Hbox only tried to learn approach when he realized that I can play timeouts for days even if I hate that. We started with dreamland cause he wanted to time me out too. He counterpick KJ so he can still air plank me. He realize it dosen´t work and pick YS but that´s only cause he lost with air planking twice in a row.
Looks like me strategy gave me more then 3500 dollars =)
@ArmadaUGS If it works for you that's cool, I'm just saying other people beat Hbox w/o having to camp and play gay. You have an amazing peach and if I recall correctly from genesis 1 you can use fox.... I would rather see you pwn him with your fox.
Congrats on your winnings, that's an average paycheck for me.
@MrSoupMonster There are no "convos" on YouTube, especially since this isn't even ongoing anymore... I can freely comment on whatever I please. I just thought it was a really odd thing to say since comparing one's salary to tournament winnings is assholish and nonsensical. One you get from just doing whatever your job is, and the other is receiving money from being the absolute best at something that so many others partake in. Geez, sorry.
I HATE that sentiment to not cheer for someone because they are playing "gay". Armada and Hbox are playing to WIN. That's the POINT of tournaments. This match was one of the most entertaining I've ever watched because you can feel their emotions throughout. The tension, strategy, and frustration are really evident and contribute to the match. It's not all about APM and crazy tech skill; sometime you have to sit back and watch the chess game. (ps: still better than Brawl)
Does anyone else wonder if Armada could have won Game 1 if he'd have played it a little differently at the end? With ~22 seconds left, when he jumped back onstage, I've been thinking he could have maybe jumped backwards, hookshotted the ledge, and just held at the bottom for a while to score some time. Hungrybox has to waste some time to get down there, kill him, and get back up. By the time he killed Armada, there'd be very little time left at all.
This set was AMAZING I don't know why they are complaining so much. This is so different from every other Melee tournament match you see. And they are playing so skillfully too, even if it's "gay". My opinion of HFW took a nose dive watching this.
You need this to win? Really it's just two defnsive playsyles that counter each other they easy could go offensive which has decent risk and reward just its much easier to just make them give up you have nothing to lose and most yl vs puff matches aren't like this.
I want to see h-box win some national him or M2K h-box is painfully close to being the best at a national
Am I the only one who thinks it's fucking cool that after 10 years this kind of thing happens? Like such an interesting and strange matchup/counter to Jiggs.
Commentator is a loudmouthed immature homophobic idiot. Are his parents fraternal twins? What a moron. This big-mouth cunt makes me mute my speakers all too often. Just shut up.
im really getting tired of the "nigga" and "gay ass shit" slang. it makes HMW sound uneducated and immature. it also pisses me off on a personal level, being a gay black smasher.
I hate that Sakurai had to make Young Link this way (and Link for that matter). Thank god for Project M, keep the heroes of hyrule out of the hands of that goofy puffball loving douchebag.
i really disagree with the commentary. This gameplay is rather interesting to watch from a strategic point of view, and is also easier to follow for people who aren't as big in the melee scene; if anything, these kind of sets make melee as a game seem a little easier to pick up. these matchups are even more aesthetically pleasing.
at one point he shout outs to hungrybox for keeping it together while armadas playing wack as fuck? if u noticed it isnt armada playing wack its hungrybox with his gay bair camping... fail commentary is fail...
This is possibly the worst, most bias commentating I've ever heard. He goes from 'WOW THIS IS THE STUPIDEST THING EVER OMGG SO WHACK OMFG DUMB' to 'OH MY GOD ARMADA THE BEST #1 JUST HAVE TO WAIT IT OUT' to 'WOW LOST THIS IS THE STUPIDEST THING DETRIMENTAL TO THE GAME, BRO.' I'd rather have no commentary then someone shouting 'THIS IS STUPID AS F' for 9 minutes straight. Jiggly is more or less out-picked for a toe-to-toe fight, and the guy plays conservatively. It's called strategy.
@SparkSSBM Okay... I suppose I should elaborate a bit. Spacing is of course part of the metagame (arguably the hardest part to get right), but can you really call this spacing? There isn't any tech skill if there isn't anything more but two people out-camping each other.
@Everyone When I say "death of melee", I mean in the same way that SS64 has "died", where new people generally don't join the competitive scene; new interest isn't going to spawn if the metagame heads in this direction.
Will you guys quit bitching about this matchup? Yes, it's slower and maybe less exciting than most other matchups. But, still, it's almost even more intense than those matches, because, one little mistake with spacing could be disastrous. Personally, I like watching these matches more than most other matches.
Even so, this isn't even close to the "Death of Melee". It's just one matchup! There are countless other matchups that aren't like this at all! Stop bitching about this one matchup!
@Everyone who calls this boring: You're right, this isn't a lightning fast tech battle, this aint fox dittos, but it is a complicated and skillful competition all the same. You don't see rape combos, those characters don't do those. This matchup must be played very carefully, VERY carefully, by both sides. What you see is a very intricate spacing and zoning war based very specifically around timing, baiting, risk and reward. I think this is very fun to watch. (From a falco/fox main)
You know, if you listen to the commentary on the crews, they say that the two teams shouldn't put in certain people just for hype... hypocrites :P
All joking aside, this really could be the death of melee. Not only are the matches boring to watch, but there isn't any development in the metagame with this crap. It's just bair-bair-bair-bair or bomb-rang-bomb-rang. Any idiot with a controller could learn how to mimic this (if very poorly).
The other problem with this type of gameplay is that it's detrimental to the health of the game. If it degenerates to a point where all the quarter final sets are 8 minute camp offs than competitive interest in the game goes down the drain and eventually it dies. This isn't fun to watch, and most players don't find this fun to play against, and if all the competition leaves because the game is gay, then no more touynies to win.
these are the 2 greatest commentators in smash stop hating on em. They were insulting the camping because clearly they think its fucked up that the best peach and (arguably) the best jiggs in the world have to resort to this level of bullshit to win a set. i agree that in the end you gotta do whatever is necessary to win but the commentators are right this shit is mad boring and tedious
@iamdirectlybehindyou That's exactly why these two assholes are being hated on. If these are two of the greatest commentators, then I feel sorry for the melee community that that's all they have to offer. It doesn't matter how slow or boring it gets. You have to stay respectful of the players' gameplans and not call them faggots. Commentary is meant to make the gameplay and provide insight to the game. It's not meant to be your personal fucking vlog where you whine and bitch about it.
Lol, this looked like a game of fucking tag in the beginning. Whoever had the most percentage was "it" and had to get the other one.
Also, I get why people were pissed watching this live when they were expecting a legit set, but it's hard to be pissed watching from Youtube, because it is pretty damn funny if you think about it.
While I commend Armada for getting the win by playing smart (really smart), it does sort of make our community look bad when you have videos of pros playing like this. By no fault of our own, I might add, because counterpicking is an important part of this game. But Smash already has a bad enough rap in the fighting game community and this video's existence wont help... I encourage any random fighting game player here to check out some other matches if you want examples of exciting melee.
Some of these comments are nice. I enjoyed these matches. I don't know why people compare it to Brawl. I watch a lot of Brawl and this is a lot more interesting than a campy Brawl match. That said, I agree the commentary was annoying. It's nice to have it, but it's biased as hell. Also, who the fuck was that idiot that said "They shouldn't be playing if they're gonna play like that" ? Get that moron off the mic now. What right does he have to say someone shouldn't play?
Yeah it's wack as fuck, but on the other hand, you can expect shit like this to happen when you play like hbox. Like they said, he can get around it, but because of his style he fails. Fight fire with fire.
The more I watch this, the more pissed I get with the ignorant, biased, down-right dumb commentary.
If these guys face eachother at Apex 2012, keep Waffles+Phil the fuck away from the mic and let me commentate instead. I swear I'll get off to this and be super-analytic ;>
Waffles doesn't commentate 90% of the time anymore. I thought this much was obvious. However, calling people out for their "inability to approach" or whatever is completely inappropriate when you're supposed to be commentating. Don't be condescending.
Our opinions should not be a factor in how they play. We do, however, have opinions. We have our reasons why we enjoy Melee and/or Brawl. To some, or most, people... this is not what Melee means to them. I think they have every right to be upset, but it should not affect the players at all.
The commentary on this match is horrendous. This is "wack"? I'm not a pro, but finding ways to beat a top tier character is not bad for a game.This is a completely legitimate strategy.
You don't have to like it, just respect what the guy is doing. He flew across the Atlantic to play this game at a US tournament and you guys badmouth him like this. He came to win, not to play a super-agressive style that everyone likes to cheer for. GG armada and hbox, 1st game was unbelievablely close.
Wow Waffles was once a good commentator but he's so one-sided that I lost all of my respect for him. He displays no appreciation for the game and disrespects both players, despite how much was on the line. Both these players shouldn't have to withstand hate from bigots.
Smash isn't merely fast paced, it's very tactical and free. If you can't respect another person's playstyle, then at least keep your mouth shut. I finally get to see low tiers in semis and it's ruined by biased commentary.
This is still better than watching MK fly around under the stage and back for 8 minutes while spamming whorenado on the stage.
Brawl really sucks compared to Melee.
Commentators are dumb, I felt bad for Hbox, he's just playing the MUs and playing to win, his strategy obviously has worked for him that's why he continues it. There's nothing wrong with that, don't hate the player, hate the game.
But I agree with the commentary; if this continues in tournaments, Melee needs anti-camping rules like (dare I say?) Brawl has, lol! That or everyone needs to work on the anti-camping meta game! XD
This camping match wasn't too bad. Both players looked a little rusty in match 1 and hbox looked not sure of the matchup, but in the 2nd match Armada went all off. You know what's really embarrassing? Commentary by people who got beat by these guys. Seriously, be chill. You gotta do what you gotta do to win that money. Armada came half way across the world; he needs that money!
You don't have to like this kind of play, but tolerate it. Stop given us NorCal Smashers a bad rep with this trash!
They do know how much money is on the line and one of these players came from nearly half way across the globe. I couldn't even watch the whole thing because of the negative commentary. I could mute it, but I like listening to the sound effects because their cool. I understand though that they want them fight more straight up, but at a tournament this size you definitely have to play to win, besides there is no one way to play this game.
Won by 1%...
CodeDawei 3 days ago
i didnt come here to fuckin watch brawl
Pastafariann 5 days ago
pride in a video game. why?
GodsCommissioned 1 week ago
Adrenaline.
rifall 1 week ago
"Armada can fuckin camp do dat nigga got tentz fo dayz!"
Bottemacch 1 week ago
I honestly hate to say this but the best way for e-sports to eliminate this camping problem is make a rule that says if you don't approach within 2-3 minutes you forfeit. And if players like Hbox ignore the rule ban them from tournaments. The integrity of Melee should be more important to the smash community.
Artaneius 4 weeks ago
god hmw if one annoying fucking commentator. bring back husband and wife back! theyre the best. hmw thinks he knows shit, god i hate him so much now
saosin5591 1 month ago
Comment removed
saosin5591 1 month ago
That was the best brawl set i've ever seen
DatexP5 1 month ago
18:34 Inappropriate party guy?
SSBSync 1 month ago
Why'd Hbox lose game 1? He won in camping, so why'd armada get the sudden death stock??
SC2V 1 month ago
@SC2V Nobody said HBox lost the first game. Sudden Death doesn't count and is just for fun.
ajpanton 1 month ago
@ajpanton Ok, I didn't know it was already decided before the sudden death. Makes sense now.
SC2V 1 month ago
they should play super sudden death mode next time
LoverDino 1 month ago
Hungrybox is just playing within the limits of what SSBM will allow him. And Melee allows him to play really safe and defensive and it works out really well. If you see this and don't enjoy it, play a different game.
"We know how to approach-- why might lose doing it--" This is the problem. These players are playing TO WIN. Not to play "fairly" or be liked. If approaching is a losing strategy, and you want to win, don't do it.
I'm tired of Melee players having such scrub mentalities.
worldjem 1 month ago
@worldjem
This fucking mentality that camping is OK is killing all competitive games in general. Every fighter now from melee to street fighter everyone just creates space and camps. In shooters no one ever moves unless their with a team mate. People in Starcraft II constantly use gay all in cheese builds and ruin the game for everyone else. Good job you won some money at the cost of video games not being about skill and more about treating the game like your in a real war.
Artaneius 4 weeks ago
although i am glad that armada beat him at his own game
afrisbo 1 month ago
the first time i watched this video, i was angry at hmw's bitching. however, after watching the most depressing grand finals ever in apex 2012, i understand where he is coming from, and even though i understand theyre both playing to win, it's just not the type of match id like to see, especially in grand finals. it's matches like these that make the people who call brawl gay eat there words
afrisbo 1 month ago 2
it only pisses me off because these are 8 MINUTES of fuck all on a 4 stock, if your gonna do this do it on 4 or 5 minutes, I can finish a BRAWL match 7 stock in 8 friggin minutes.
masterofdoom5000 1 month ago
HBox's Jiggs will NEVER beat Armada's YLink. It has nothing to do with HBox "not knowing how to approach," it's the matchup. Jiggs CAN'T approach YLink. All YLink needs to do is wait in his shield with a bomb. THAT'S IT. It shuts down all of Jiggs' approach options. If Jiggs hits the shield and doesn't space correctly, YLink just fullhops OoS and Jiggs eats a N-Air or bomb. If Jiggs spaces or tries to bait or whatever, YLink just jumps or rolls away and you have a reset. Jiggs simply can't win.
lamdash 1 month ago
@lamdash I agree that it's implausible, but I still think it could be done. I mean. That shield keeps getting smaller as long as Puff keeps the pressure on, and YL has to toss that bomb eventually. I think with SH nairs and fairs (moves that stay out longer than bair), it'd be doable (this is of course assuming a very skilled player). There were times that Hbox seemed to get the right idea--ex. fake an aerial into a grab, start combo. But then he'd start full hop bairing and lose.
Protnomc 1 month ago
I dont give a shit what anyone says, but Waffles is complaining the whole first match and then with 20 seconds left get super hype "WOW THAT WAS AMAZING" lol
FoxandHart 1 month ago
Man, no offense to the guys raging over the commentator, but you guys are probably just a bunch of butthurt hbox/armada fans. Yeah you're right, HMW was rude and obnoxious but these matches were NOT in ANY way entertaining. Yes they play to win and YES they did play gay. No it wasn't strategy unless you call "camping like a pathetic person" strategy. Props to Hbox, who didn't play nearly as gay as Armada. I used to have respect for Armada too....
MrSoupMonster 2 months ago
@MrSoupMonster You have no idea what you're talking about. Be quiet.
B3atSt1ck 2 months ago
@B3atSt1ck Okay then, please inform me rather than be so quick to put me down. I know Hbox plays very gay and just throws bairs out like there's no tomorrow but at least he was trying to approach. Not like armada who reached a new level of gay playing. What armada did was so pathetic it hurt that I cheered for him in his previous matches.
MrSoupMonster 2 months ago
@MrSoupMonster You call CPing KJ64 "trying to approach"? He only approached when and because Armada had the lead. Too bad for Armada that was most of the time, maybe you would've liked him better if he lost?
Armada has hated Puff since before playing any good Puffs, and now he's getting his revenge. Yes he wanted to time-out Hbox. Not because he likes to time-out, he just hates it less than playing against Puff.
ajpanton 2 months ago
@ajpanton Like I said I was cheering for armada, but to me it seemed hbox was trying to learn to approach... except that first match which was the worst thing in smash history I've ever seen.
MrSoupMonster 2 months ago
@MrSoupMonster As Hack put it the other day:
For years, this innocent Jew... er, Armada, has been tortured and taking shit from the Naz... Puffs. What would you do if you one day possessed the tools to break free and pay back all the suffering?
ajpanton 1 month ago
@ajpanton XDDD literally lol'd at work.... thanks for that. Idk I still think his other characters might have done the job right.
MrSoupMonster 1 month ago
@ajpanton (and also Armada, I suppose) Now, I don't think Jiggs is a "gay" character But it seems like you do (and Armada is on the record as calling her gay and saying she "deserves" Young Link). I don't think the YL campy stuffs is bad or wrong either, but I'm just wondering how what Armada's doing is any better. I'm not trying to criticize, and sorry if this seems rude, but I'm legitimately curious as to how what Armada is doing is "different" in your (and his) perspective.
Protnomc 1 month ago
@MrSoupMonster FYI I don't think Hbox plays "gay". I admire him for being able to use the very basics of Jiggs to the extent where he's the 4th best player in the world. His spacing and decision making are both extremely good.
The part of your post that I disagree with is where you say that what Armada did wasn't strategy. After getting 5-0d by Hbox at Apex, he realized his shortcomings and came up with a new counterpick. How is that not strategy? This wasn't even the first time. Pound V was.
B3atSt1ck 2 months ago
@B3atSt1ck Well I disagree with your disagree.... lol All I saw was boomerang and bomb spamming/camping from YL.... that's not very strategic
MrSoupMonster 2 months ago
@MrSoupMonster
Around 170 bairs LAST match from Apex is a big reason I pick Y link against him now.
No offense but Hbox only tried to learn approach when he realized that I can play timeouts for days even if I hate that. We started with dreamland cause he wanted to time me out too. He counterpick KJ so he can still air plank me. He realize it dosen´t work and pick YS but that´s only cause he lost with air planking twice in a row.
Looks like me strategy gave me more then 3500 dollars =)
ArmadaUGS 1 month ago
@ArmadaUGS If it works for you that's cool, I'm just saying other people beat Hbox w/o having to camp and play gay. You have an amazing peach and if I recall correctly from genesis 1 you can use fox.... I would rather see you pwn him with your fox.
Congrats on your winnings, that's an average paycheck for me.
MrSoupMonster 1 month ago
@MrSoupMonster "Congrats on your winnings, that's an average paycheck for me"
LOOOOOOL WOW. I know this comment is a few weeks old, but really? Seriously? How is that even relevant? Troll harder.
sizzle9000 1 month ago
@sizzle9000 LOOOOOL you're not even in the convo buddy so that makes your comment irrelevant as well. "Troll harder" kid.
MrSoupMonster 1 month ago
@MrSoupMonster There are no "convos" on YouTube, especially since this isn't even ongoing anymore... I can freely comment on whatever I please. I just thought it was a really odd thing to say since comparing one's salary to tournament winnings is assholish and nonsensical. One you get from just doing whatever your job is, and the other is receiving money from being the absolute best at something that so many others partake in. Geez, sorry.
sizzle9000 1 month ago
Random Smasher in the background at 08:33 : "DO IT AGAIN!"
That was crazy. I like Hungrybox. :)
bluetrancefer 2 months ago
Would be great if there was a version of this video without commentators bitching about every second of it.
mc3w 2 months ago
@mc3w There is. Download it from my homepage (better quality and 60fps) and listen to audio track 2.
ajpanton 2 months ago
@ajpanton HOT DAMN
mc3w 2 months ago
Commentator is a moron. Ruins everything.
brandonswan 2 months ago
HMW is stupid if stupid is two words. Two syllables yeah, but two words? Has he been going to English class?
alegreman07 2 months ago
@alegreman07 That would be the joke.
battlecow1 2 months ago
The vid is so boring
chic1014 2 months ago
okay I didn't even see the ending of that fight. WOW this game is intense
funsails22 2 months ago
Even in this 8 minute campfest I was pushed to the edge of my seat in the last minute. Shit's intense
funsails22 2 months ago
I HATE that sentiment to not cheer for someone because they are playing "gay". Armada and Hbox are playing to WIN. That's the POINT of tournaments. This match was one of the most entertaining I've ever watched because you can feel their emotions throughout. The tension, strategy, and frustration are really evident and contribute to the match. It's not all about APM and crazy tech skill; sometime you have to sit back and watch the chess game. (ps: still better than Brawl)
kevo31415 2 months ago 16
I'm used to insanely organized starcraft commentary, so for me this was fucking awesome to watch (or listen to)
VenerableLordKroak 2 months ago
I'm now interesting in what HMW said about Mango or King beat beat Armada's YL.
linkoninja 2 months ago
Does anyone else wonder if Armada could have won Game 1 if he'd have played it a little differently at the end? With ~22 seconds left, when he jumped back onstage, I've been thinking he could have maybe jumped backwards, hookshotted the ledge, and just held at the bottom for a while to score some time. Hungrybox has to waste some time to get down there, kill him, and get back up. By the time he killed Armada, there'd be very little time left at all.
Protnomc 2 months ago
There is nothing wrong with what Armada did.
feanaroTK 2 months ago
why didn't armada just nair or dair when he came down from the platform 7:49?
uberfoe 2 months ago
This set was AMAZING I don't know why they are complaining so much. This is so different from every other Melee tournament match you see. And they are playing so skillfully too, even if it's "gay". My opinion of HFW took a nose dive watching this.
Mattnumbers 2 months ago
Annoying ass commentary
Kaffei4Lunch 2 months ago
You need this to win? Really it's just two defnsive playsyles that counter each other they easy could go offensive which has decent risk and reward just its much easier to just make them give up you have nothing to lose and most yl vs puff matches aren't like this.
I want to see h-box win some national him or M2K h-box is painfully close to being the best at a national
INSANECRAZYHODAPP 2 months ago
Armada is wack ?
Yeah, that's why he won Genesis 2 .
KEMIMCCLOUD 3 months ago
i agree the only reason i'd watch is live but now i'm watchin for commentary lol
tjcombo86 3 months ago
This match has cured my insomnia.
Jonassoe 3 months ago 4
> We don't know how to approach. We might lose doing it...
There's your fucking problem.
Doggalina 3 months ago
@Doggalina I know right
Then at 19:26 he was like "Two words: Stupid"
fking dumb ass commentator
Kaffei4Lunch 2 months ago
Am I the only one who thinks it's fucking cool that after 10 years this kind of thing happens? Like such an interesting and strange matchup/counter to Jiggs.
Doggalina 3 months ago
LOL AT 19:25 2 words, "stupid" HAHAHA
Aphroditeafr0 3 months ago
Armada was able to beat Hbox with Ylink a second time, and proceeded to win G2. So, I guess that day, Armada was...
*puts on sunglasses* A happy camper.
SonOfMana100 4 months ago 3
@SonOfMana100 YYYYYYEEEAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH
drewbobaloobob 3 months ago
Commentator is a loudmouthed immature homophobic idiot. Are his parents fraternal twins? What a moron. This big-mouth cunt makes me mute my speakers all too often. Just shut up.
HomestarRunner20X6 4 months ago
@HomestarRunner20X6 yes. he's homophobic. and most of the smash community are rapist.
SparkSSBM 3 months ago
@SparkSSBM Uproariously funny.
HomestarRunner20X6 3 months ago
worst winner's semis ever?
thenatenator5433 4 months ago
This video should be titled "Brawl where you at?"
louman7777777 4 months ago
can ya'll niggas stop QQ'ing
icedragon109 4 months ago
The suspense is hype as hell. I love watching matches like this, cause it shows that melee camps just as hard as brawl.
daKIDgamer 4 months ago 2
@daKIDgamer
Yeah, one set vs. the entire metagame of brawl.. w2justify it.
DJRoxxorblack 4 months ago
This is the only Melee set longer than its Brawl counterpart. I will never watch an Hbox vs Armada match again.
dsx9069 4 months ago
@dsx9069
pinkshinobi vs rockcrock
tero vs pepito
amsah vs jman
tero vs zeetrox
pinkshinobi vs mango
pinkshinboi vs germ
Jerogai 2 months ago
@Jerogai I'm really curious about the ones with Germ and Mango...might actually watch them.
dsx9069 2 months ago
People actually thinking this kind of playing is legit. Sad sad day.
Go back and fucking play Brawl.
Thanos828 4 months ago
@Thanos828 It is legit
Do you not see the characters used in this set LOL
Kaffei4Lunch 2 months ago
this is so epic i actually wanted to see the outcome and then all the hype in the back round was just awesome 1%
mahalic007 4 months ago
hmw says wack as fuck almost as many times as hbox baired
ItoI6 4 months ago 20
Comment removed
petersdisciple 4 months ago
im really getting tired of the "nigga" and "gay ass shit" slang. it makes HMW sound uneducated and immature. it also pisses me off on a personal level, being a gay black smasher.
petersdisciple 4 months ago 3
awful commentary HMW
petersdisciple 4 months ago
Hbox is a twat.
TheWizardOfAUSTRALIA 4 months ago
The commentary on this set is terrible.
hypertailschao 4 months ago 4
the time on this video makes it look like a set in brawl.
flareneos1 4 months ago
Commentators are idiots. Every game has these matchups. Go watch a Sagat or Honda mirror in SF4.
mikhasw 4 months ago 2
So ajp, why did people demand commentation on these again? Because to me this sounds like shit. I rather listen dreamland music all day. =D
Samochan 4 months ago
Game 1 was worst than Brawl! lol
EaonCanada 4 months ago
@EaonCanada It was a lot better than Brawl was.
Strongbad338guy 4 months ago
@Strongbad338guy lol
EaonCanada 4 months ago
HMW shut the fuck up...i cant believe you guys dont feel the intensity and the lv of spacing skills in this set...
cnacm 4 months ago
this is really the first time that i had the feeling watching brawl
dikkebal 4 months ago
I hate that Sakurai had to make Young Link this way (and Link for that matter). Thank god for Project M, keep the heroes of hyrule out of the hands of that goofy puffball loving douchebag.
nahor88 4 months ago
First time I've seen Angry HMW.
ruhtraeel 5 months ago
IT'S A BRAWL MATCH
ruhtraeel 5 months ago 3
hahahahaha love it
waldhemoth 5 months ago
Armada is one hell of a camper though- that nigga has tents for days.
I laughed pretty hard at that.
The camping was kind of boring, and winning over time out is lame
AtmosphericRay 5 months ago
Dude, these guys aren't playing to entertain you. They're playing for dead presidents...(or, ya know, to exchange for Euros.)
Grooviliciousness 5 months ago
i really disagree with the commentary. This gameplay is rather interesting to watch from a strategic point of view, and is also easier to follow for people who aren't as big in the melee scene; if anything, these kind of sets make melee as a game seem a little easier to pick up. these matchups are even more aesthetically pleasing.
z3r0skeel 5 months ago
The beginning was so slow, but the ending was stupidly-hyped.
Nothing new from a Hbox game.
CFRerem 5 months ago
The beginning was so slow, but the ending was stupidly-hyped.
Nothing new from a Hbox game.
CFRerem 5 months ago
Armada at 14:25, 'Niggas getting creative'
aznblank007 5 months ago
Still better than Brawl.
DirEnRefused 5 months ago
I do like how Armada bodied Hbox in the second match, though. That was nice.
SonOfMana100 5 months ago
Armada uses young link. O_O
UchihaSurvivor360 5 months ago
Do you remember when HMW and Phil commentary used to be good?
TacticsRamza 5 months ago
Man this commentating is so dull and stupid.
chaserthewolf 5 months ago
Comment removed
knockout08 5 months ago
Two words: Stupid!
Ihategoldenrods 5 months ago 3
i think its simply the character matchup and stage that caused this
mrgoodfight14 5 months ago
This was the greatest set I've ever watched, and I'm not being sarcastic.
LordofWolves 5 months ago
at one point he shout outs to hungrybox for keeping it together while armadas playing wack as fuck? if u noticed it isnt armada playing wack its hungrybox with his gay bair camping... fail commentary is fail...
ShortMindedTV 5 months ago
This is possibly the worst, most bias commentating I've ever heard. He goes from 'WOW THIS IS THE STUPIDEST THING EVER OMGG SO WHACK OMFG DUMB' to 'OH MY GOD ARMADA THE BEST #1 JUST HAVE TO WAIT IT OUT' to 'WOW LOST THIS IS THE STUPIDEST THING DETRIMENTAL TO THE GAME, BRO.' I'd rather have no commentary then someone shouting 'THIS IS STUPID AS F' for 9 minutes straight. Jiggly is more or less out-picked for a toe-to-toe fight, and the guy plays conservatively. It's called strategy.
tailzf0x 5 months ago
i´d rather see this then puff ditto´s
dikkebal 5 months ago
LOL @ Phil: 24:31 - 24:36
"Whackest fucking set in the world...oooh nice"
abdrone 6 months ago
@SparkSSBM Okay... I suppose I should elaborate a bit. Spacing is of course part of the metagame (arguably the hardest part to get right), but can you really call this spacing? There isn't any tech skill if there isn't anything more but two people out-camping each other.
@Everyone When I say "death of melee", I mean in the same way that SS64 has "died", where new people generally don't join the competitive scene; new interest isn't going to spawn if the metagame heads in this direction.
joyisdumb111 6 months ago
@joyisdumb111 but 64 is as big as it's ever been now
SparkSSBM 5 months ago
Will you guys quit bitching about this matchup? Yes, it's slower and maybe less exciting than most other matchups. But, still, it's almost even more intense than those matches, because, one little mistake with spacing could be disastrous. Personally, I like watching these matches more than most other matches.
Even so, this isn't even close to the "Death of Melee". It's just one matchup! There are countless other matchups that aren't like this at all! Stop bitching about this one matchup!
SSBMaster11 6 months ago
Whatever HMW and Phil say about this being whack, you can't deny they were so hype when it went down to the wire in the 1st game LOL
Ariphilus 6 months ago 19
LMAO
Hydrogen10101 6 months ago
@Everyone who calls this boring: You're right, this isn't a lightning fast tech battle, this aint fox dittos, but it is a complicated and skillful competition all the same. You don't see rape combos, those characters don't do those. This matchup must be played very carefully, VERY carefully, by both sides. What you see is a very intricate spacing and zoning war based very specifically around timing, baiting, risk and reward. I think this is very fun to watch. (From a falco/fox main)
Isiscyriin 6 months ago
You know, if you listen to the commentary on the crews, they say that the two teams shouldn't put in certain people just for hype... hypocrites :P
All joking aside, this really could be the death of melee. Not only are the matches boring to watch, but there isn't any development in the metagame with this crap. It's just bair-bair-bair-bair or bomb-rang-bomb-rang. Any idiot with a controller could learn how to mimic this (if very poorly).
joyisdumb111 6 months ago
@joyisdumb111 oh so you don't consider spacing part of the metagame?
SparkSSBM 6 months ago
@joyisdumb111 The "death of Melee"? Dude, if you don't like this matchup, (1) don't use Young Link and (2) don't use Jigglypuff. Not hard.
WilliamLongfellow 6 months ago
Enjoyed every minute of it.
JovMX 6 months ago
The other problem with this type of gameplay is that it's detrimental to the health of the game. If it degenerates to a point where all the quarter final sets are 8 minute camp offs than competitive interest in the game goes down the drain and eventually it dies. This isn't fun to watch, and most players don't find this fun to play against, and if all the competition leaves because the game is gay, then no more touynies to win.
genovaz 6 months ago
these are the 2 greatest commentators in smash stop hating on em. They were insulting the camping because clearly they think its fucked up that the best peach and (arguably) the best jiggs in the world have to resort to this level of bullshit to win a set. i agree that in the end you gotta do whatever is necessary to win but the commentators are right this shit is mad boring and tedious
iamdirectlybehindyou 6 months ago
@iamdirectlybehindyou That's exactly why these two assholes are being hated on. If these are two of the greatest commentators, then I feel sorry for the melee community that that's all they have to offer. It doesn't matter how slow or boring it gets. You have to stay respectful of the players' gameplans and not call them faggots. Commentary is meant to make the gameplay and provide insight to the game. It's not meant to be your personal fucking vlog where you whine and bitch about it.
JCrest87 5 months ago
@JCrest87 its fucking melee there is hardly any serious commentary
iamdirectlybehindyou 5 months ago
@JCrest87
They did voice their opinions pretty loud, but they did point out some stuff about Y.Link's main kill moves, approaches, and camping strategy.
ruhtraeel 5 months ago
Yay melee's being played like brawl.
imag1291 6 months ago
Lol, this looked like a game of fucking tag in the beginning. Whoever had the most percentage was "it" and had to get the other one.
Also, I get why people were pissed watching this live when they were expecting a legit set, but it's hard to be pissed watching from Youtube, because it is pretty damn funny if you think about it.
DWiens421 6 months ago
Still, not as gay as Twilight.
linkaut 6 months ago
I know Armada is being intuitive and everything but I don't blame HMW for talking the way he did, the whole set was boring as hell to watch.
louman7777777 6 months ago
whyd hbox just sit there in sudden death?
jfp521 6 months ago
@jfp521 Hungrybox won by one percent. In Genesis ruleset, you win if you have less percentage at the same stock.
SilentViolins 6 months ago
@jfp521 because there is no sudden death, Hbox won the set because he had a 1% lead when the time ran out so he didn't bother
genovaz 6 months ago
While I commend Armada for getting the win by playing smart (really smart), it does sort of make our community look bad when you have videos of pros playing like this. By no fault of our own, I might add, because counterpicking is an important part of this game. But Smash already has a bad enough rap in the fighting game community and this video's existence wont help... I encourage any random fighting game player here to check out some other matches if you want examples of exciting melee.
PlayerPandu 6 months ago
Some of these comments are nice. I enjoyed these matches. I don't know why people compare it to Brawl. I watch a lot of Brawl and this is a lot more interesting than a campy Brawl match. That said, I agree the commentary was annoying. It's nice to have it, but it's biased as hell. Also, who the fuck was that idiot that said "They shouldn't be playing if they're gonna play like that" ? Get that moron off the mic now. What right does he have to say someone shouldn't play?
HalfMoonBlade 6 months ago
Yeah it's wack as fuck, but on the other hand, you can expect shit like this to happen when you play like hbox. Like they said, he can get around it, but because of his style he fails. Fight fire with fire.
BartvKeersop 6 months ago
thats why jiggs must be banned
om9999 6 months ago
@om9999 jiggs must be banned because she gets camped by young link?
SparkSSBM 6 months ago
worst set ever
om9999 6 months ago
The more I watch this, the more pissed I get with the ignorant, biased, down-right dumb commentary.
If these guys face eachother at Apex 2012, keep Waffles+Phil the fuck away from the mic and let me commentate instead. I swear I'll get off to this and be super-analytic ;>
123Shine 6 months ago
@123Shine You got this, Hack! <3
-Hack fanboy
MrKingFunk 6 months ago
And people complain about Brawl being so campy xD
Diablon76 6 months ago
@Diablon76 truth
Jerogai 2 months ago
the amount of people actually respecting this kind of play is baffling
gf3tw 6 months ago
@gf3tw The amount of people who are close minded to multiple types of play is even more baffling.
SonOfMana100 6 months ago
Waffles doesn't commentate 90% of the time anymore. I thought this much was obvious. However, calling people out for their "inability to approach" or whatever is completely inappropriate when you're supposed to be commentating. Don't be condescending.
A7XChaos 6 months ago
Comment removed
A7XChaos 6 months ago
Our opinions should not be a factor in how they play. We do, however, have opinions. We have our reasons why we enjoy Melee and/or Brawl. To some, or most, people... this is not what Melee means to them. I think they have every right to be upset, but it should not affect the players at all.
yague123 6 months ago
I lost all the respect I had for waffles after this match
Jupitec 6 months ago
I enjoy watching these matches, what is everybody's problem? I'm happy to see intelligent comments here but this shitty commentary is pissing me off.
AwakenFinland 6 months ago
*sees Jigglypuff vs Young Link*
*match is 37 minutes long*
ffffffffuuuuuu
SSBBZantetsuken 6 months ago
The commentary on this match is horrendous. This is "wack"? I'm not a pro, but finding ways to beat a top tier character is not bad for a game.This is a completely legitimate strategy.
You don't have to like it, just respect what the guy is doing. He flew across the Atlantic to play this game at a US tournament and you guys badmouth him like this. He came to win, not to play a super-agressive style that everyone likes to cheer for. GG armada and hbox, 1st game was unbelievablely close.
ThatISFalco 6 months ago 3
Wow Waffles was once a good commentator but he's so one-sided that I lost all of my respect for him. He displays no appreciation for the game and disrespects both players, despite how much was on the line. Both these players shouldn't have to withstand hate from bigots.
Smash isn't merely fast paced, it's very tactical and free. If you can't respect another person's playstyle, then at least keep your mouth shut. I finally get to see low tiers in semis and it's ruined by biased commentary.
Atma01 6 months ago 5
haha shoutouts to the top 2 comments being armada and hbox themselves
andrethefelix 6 months ago
This is still better than watching MK fly around under the stage and back for 8 minutes while spamming whorenado on the stage.
Brawl really sucks compared to Melee.
Commentators are dumb, I felt bad for Hbox, he's just playing the MUs and playing to win, his strategy obviously has worked for him that's why he continues it. There's nothing wrong with that, don't hate the player, hate the game.
jebril 6 months ago
But I agree with the commentary; if this continues in tournaments, Melee needs anti-camping rules like (dare I say?) Brawl has, lol! That or everyone needs to work on the anti-camping meta game! XD
faceurhell 6 months ago
@faceurhell Everyone needs to work on the anti camping metagame. And stop bitching.
SonOfMana100 6 months ago
This camping match wasn't too bad. Both players looked a little rusty in match 1 and hbox looked not sure of the matchup, but in the 2nd match Armada went all off. You know what's really embarrassing? Commentary by people who got beat by these guys. Seriously, be chill. You gotta do what you gotta do to win that money. Armada came half way across the world; he needs that money!
You don't have to like this kind of play, but tolerate it. Stop given us NorCal Smashers a bad rep with this trash!
faceurhell 6 months ago
I won't say camping isn't gay, but hey, you gotta do what you gotta do.
artemis3120 6 months ago
LOL EVERYONE IS SO FUCKING MAD. The community needs to learn to accept this kind of 'play to win' mentality.
Commentary was wack as fuck
canadarox0rz 6 months ago 3
They do know how much money is on the line and one of these players came from nearly half way across the globe. I couldn't even watch the whole thing because of the negative commentary. I could mute it, but I like listening to the sound effects because their cool. I understand though that they want them fight more straight up, but at a tournament this size you definitely have to play to win, besides there is no one way to play this game.
Zande19 6 months ago 14
@Zande19 If you want just the game sounds, download the videos from my site (better quality + 60fps) and listen to the secondary audio track.
ajpanton 6 months ago 3
@ajpanton Is this on your page a link to it?
Zande19 6 months ago
@Zande19 Link is in description of every upload and on channel page.
ajpanton 6 months ago
@ajpanton Thank you man should of been noticed it.
Zande19 6 months ago