2) we don't call priests "Father" to be reminded of their authority but to show due respect for the office in which they hold as servants of Christ and ministers of His flock. God Bless
Well articulated point of view. I especially appreciated the end where you state that you "personally" disagree with the local Baptist calling himself "Pastor." At least you are consistent. While I think your interpretation of scripture and your conclusions are erroneous, you at least admit that they are your own "personal" beliefs. I think that many non-Catholic Christians see an oppressive Church where one does not exist. We believe our priests have been given an authority by Christ and..
Sorry but your fallible interpretaion simply doesnt match up to scripture & actually causes a conflict in scripture.
Im Matthew 23:9-10 you say Jesus is speaking of not having titles & mentions "Fathers" & "Teahers specifcally, & that St. Paul in 1Cor 4:15 says nothing of calling him "Father'
Well then your conflict begins in 1Cor 12:28 where it says, inpart, "1st Aposltes, 2nd Prophets, 3rd "TEACHERS"...All are titles & "Teachers" is a specific title.
@OCCatholic And this was handled in my video...PLEASE, ALL OF YOU...PAY ATTENTION. The issue Jesus brought up was not to be called by a title...TEACHER DAN, FATHER DAVE, RABBI RANDY...it is different than seeing - yeah, that guy Dan over there - that is our teacher for this class. Please, folks...!!
....Just as a biological father provides food for his family, a priest feeds his spiritual children with the word of God and Jesus' body and blood in the Holy Eucharist. A biological father must also provide counsel and encouragement to his family as well as live a good Christian life as an example to his family, much like priests are called to do. If a priest would ever get a big head and try to elevate himself as the Pharisees were, then Jesus would tell a priest the same thing He told them.
@100PercentCatholic Jesus made a command to not be called Father as it relates to titles. Father Joe...Father Andy...this is what Jesus was talking about. Therefore, it is in direct violation of the command. There is no way getting around it. Me, myself...I could not defend it.
@theist77 I am having a hard time seeing your argument when father is used over 100 times in the NT to refer to someone else besides God. You mention Abraham being called father because he was the first. But what about David (Luke 1:32). There are so many other examples. Philemon 10 “I urge you on behalf of my child Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment.” I can’t see how Paul would call himself father to others but it is wrong for others to call him father.
@100PercentCatholic You are totally missing my point...I thought I was very clear in the video. It is one thing to say..."I am a father to you in that I brought you to Christ through the gospel"...it is another things to say, "call me 'Father Paul'". That is the distinction that I made in the video and the latter of the two examples that I gave was the sense that Jesus took issue with...being called by an office as a part of the way people address you.
@theist77 Christianity and believing in Jesus is not about calling Father or not. It's all about LOVE and Holy Life. So isn't it much better for all of us Christians to learn how to improve in LOVE and how to improve in HOLINESS?
@For3nity He knows that -- I understand your impatience having only seen one video, but to be fair you are schooling him on a lesson without really taking the time to get to know his whole channel which is dedicated to just that. There is nothing wrong with looking for meaning in the scriptures if you have faith. Nor is there any issue of being some one is more focused on the larger messages of love. But both positions taken to be far can lead a person astray. Interesting it irritated you.
@JustAnotherBeardo Talking about looking for meaning in the scriptures, I would rather focus for instance for all of us to know the meaning of "believing" in Jesus, rather than about calling our spiritual leader "Father".
@For3nity He made a video...I responded...this is a smokescreen to sidestep the issue. I share the gospel almost every day with people...this is something I do on the side.
@For3nity to be fair and for full disclosure your comment though is normally the type I would make too, I just have happened to watched the guy through a progression so I know that he is not all about rules over love and faith. but he is televising his explorations of the bible and his faith in these videos, is that a bad thing? its better to look and listen carefully before commenting, I often have to remind myself of that too. Cheers
@JustAnotherBeardo And I am not saying he is all about rules over love and faith. I said it's better to focus on love and holiness, rather than on title or mere word, for the same word could have different meaning depends on the context.
@theist77 I usually block video responses by default because the majority of the time they are filled with hate, vulgar language, name calling, etc. They also many times spread lies about God and His Church and I do not like heretics videos gaining popularity by piggy backing on my videos. Not that I am accusing you of that, just pretty much a blanket rule I have. I do not mind intelligent discussions with anyone, and I figure that is what the comment section is for.
@100PercentCatholic You have exposed your fear. Frankly, the video I did was right on.. I am all about respectful discussion but it seems that you are fearful of the argument that I gave. You should be able to defend your position and all others who come against it should look like failures. That would mean that you should be able to approve the video without fear/issue.
@theist77 -- I have to agree with you -- to say you are all about intelligent respectful discussion but then if you do not like how you came out on that discussion you just block censor that discussion is not learning or discourse, its conversational opportunism and censorship. Agree with me and make me look good or be censored. WOW. I am glad 100 percent catholic is catholic but he should respond to your comment with scholarship and response not censorship. oh the historical congruity.
@theist77 I just agreed with Theist 77 and for what its worth given the Catholic church legitimate mistakes of trying to control belief through censorship and authoritarian measures in the past you might reconsider your policy when it comes to respectful faithful differences. The difference between you do is hardly a matter of Christian or no Christian, the fact that you would try to blot the argument from the face of you tube discussion is showing an amazing lack of trust in god.
@100PercentCatholic I just agreed with Theist 77 and for what its worth given the Catholic church legitimate mistakes of trying to control belief through censorship and authoritarian measures in the past you might reconsider your policy when it comes to respectful faithful differences. The difference between you do is hardly a matter of Christian or no Christian, the fact that you would try to blot the argument from the face of you tube discussion is showing an amazing lack of trust in god.
@JustAnotherBeardo I see 100Percent's point of not allowing ANY video responses. Say you were to make a video about Jesus and faith and it became very popular, getting hundreds of thousands of views. Then say an athiest were to post a video response to that, saying that God is not real. Every person that is seeing your video will get to see his now. You are pretty much indirectly supporing an atheist video and helping it to gain popularity. See the point.
By Catholics calling our priests father, we are certainly not trying to elevate them or say that they are on the same level as God as the Pharisees were trying to do. Notice in the Bible how Jesus says that He is the Good Shepherd (John 10:14) while at the same time asks other humans to shepherd His people (John 21:15-17, Ephesians 4:11, 1 Peter 5:2). Priests are here to help shepherd God's people on Earth. (continued)...
@100PercentCatholic But, once again...Jesus said, do not get into the practice of being called "father" - "rabbi" etc. It is very clear. What you are saying here does not get you around that.
@ChRoPi21 How is that possible when some people, including theist77, claims that god calls them to a specific task? If that is true, then we are by definition not equal and god raises chosen people above others.
It should also be noted that calling a priest "father" is not lifting them up onto some great position but is, if anything, reminding them of their sacred duty, to be our fathers in the gospel through teaching and example. If anything it is a reminder of that responsibility, not a self-aggrandizement. Of course it is hardly a mandatory practice, I know many priests and if you did call them merely by their name they take no offense, it is much more a practice of filial love for those who serve us
@redbaron998 A Church priest I know allows everyone to call him Wayne if they prefer instead of Pastor, although I call him Pastor Wayne. It may be a new trend in some Churches? I have long thought that the Pope's Holy Title is self adulation and grandiose. It stems still from the fact that Roman Catholics think they are the true and only Church.
Firstly, good on you for making a respectful response. Even though I disagree with you It is nice to see someone enter into this kind of discussion calmy and reasonably.
Secondly, I do not agree with your conclusion. If someone calls themselves Father and (as seen throughout the NT) others children, it does not seem surprising that they would be called "father" In addition the word "father" is used in the titular form for some figures such as Abraham.
@redbaron998 All dialogue should be out of respect and love. ;-) I mentioned Father Abraham" around 1:32 in the form of an annotation. Abraham was not alive and in the position of an office in Luke 16 where this is mentioned - nor anywhere else in scripture. This is not a situation that can be looked at as relevant to Matthew 23.
Just to be pedantic: Q: How do know that Jesus was not simply instructing his Disciples alone not to be called Father, or Leader? Rather than extending it all the way down the generations of Church? Just wondering? PS: I think the Catholic Church is paying for your next extended holiday to Argentina?
Jesus is not against the titles themselves, he is against the pride that many (but not all) have over their position.
Using the title "Father" is no different than "Mister", "Madame", "Doctor", etc.
As long as the title is not used for pride, then it is perfectly acceptable.
If one does use it as a source of pride though, then it is condemenable. It is these people that Christ spoke against, not the titles themselves.
I hope that this and my last comment cleared up your confusion.
Archangel777Catholic 1 month ago
2) we don't call priests "Father" to be reminded of their authority but to show due respect for the office in which they hold as servants of Christ and ministers of His flock. God Bless
wayne99217 1 month ago
Well articulated point of view. I especially appreciated the end where you state that you "personally" disagree with the local Baptist calling himself "Pastor." At least you are consistent. While I think your interpretation of scripture and your conclusions are erroneous, you at least admit that they are your own "personal" beliefs. I think that many non-Catholic Christians see an oppressive Church where one does not exist. We believe our priests have been given an authority by Christ and..
wayne99217 1 month ago
Sorry but your fallible interpretaion simply doesnt match up to scripture & actually causes a conflict in scripture.
Im Matthew 23:9-10 you say Jesus is speaking of not having titles & mentions "Fathers" & "Teahers specifcally, & that St. Paul in 1Cor 4:15 says nothing of calling him "Father'
Well then your conflict begins in 1Cor 12:28 where it says, inpart, "1st Aposltes, 2nd Prophets, 3rd "TEACHERS"...All are titles & "Teachers" is a specific title.
How do you recify the conflict?
OCCatholic 1 month ago 3
@OCCatholic And this was handled in my video...PLEASE, ALL OF YOU...PAY ATTENTION. The issue Jesus brought up was not to be called by a title...TEACHER DAN, FATHER DAVE, RABBI RANDY...it is different than seeing - yeah, that guy Dan over there - that is our teacher for this class. Please, folks...!!
theist77 1 month ago
....Just as a biological father provides food for his family, a priest feeds his spiritual children with the word of God and Jesus' body and blood in the Holy Eucharist. A biological father must also provide counsel and encouragement to his family as well as live a good Christian life as an example to his family, much like priests are called to do. If a priest would ever get a big head and try to elevate himself as the Pharisees were, then Jesus would tell a priest the same thing He told them.
100PercentCatholic 1 month ago
@100PercentCatholic Jesus made a command to not be called Father as it relates to titles. Father Joe...Father Andy...this is what Jesus was talking about. Therefore, it is in direct violation of the command. There is no way getting around it. Me, myself...I could not defend it.
theist77 1 month ago
@theist77 I am having a hard time seeing your argument when father is used over 100 times in the NT to refer to someone else besides God. You mention Abraham being called father because he was the first. But what about David (Luke 1:32). There are so many other examples. Philemon 10 “I urge you on behalf of my child Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment.” I can’t see how Paul would call himself father to others but it is wrong for others to call him father.
100PercentCatholic 1 month ago
@100PercentCatholic You are totally missing my point...I thought I was very clear in the video. It is one thing to say..."I am a father to you in that I brought you to Christ through the gospel"...it is another things to say, "call me 'Father Paul'". That is the distinction that I made in the video and the latter of the two examples that I gave was the sense that Jesus took issue with...being called by an office as a part of the way people address you.
theist77 1 month ago
@theist77 Christianity and believing in Jesus is not about calling Father or not. It's all about LOVE and Holy Life. So isn't it much better for all of us Christians to learn how to improve in LOVE and how to improve in HOLINESS?
For3nity 1 month ago
@For3nity He knows that -- I understand your impatience having only seen one video, but to be fair you are schooling him on a lesson without really taking the time to get to know his whole channel which is dedicated to just that. There is nothing wrong with looking for meaning in the scriptures if you have faith. Nor is there any issue of being some one is more focused on the larger messages of love. But both positions taken to be far can lead a person astray. Interesting it irritated you.
JustAnotherBeardo 1 month ago
@JustAnotherBeardo Talking about looking for meaning in the scriptures, I would rather focus for instance for all of us to know the meaning of "believing" in Jesus, rather than about calling our spiritual leader "Father".
For3nity 1 month ago
@For3nity He made a video...I responded...this is a smokescreen to sidestep the issue. I share the gospel almost every day with people...this is something I do on the side.
theist77 1 month ago
@For3nity to be fair and for full disclosure your comment though is normally the type I would make too, I just have happened to watched the guy through a progression so I know that he is not all about rules over love and faith. but he is televising his explorations of the bible and his faith in these videos, is that a bad thing? its better to look and listen carefully before commenting, I often have to remind myself of that too. Cheers
JustAnotherBeardo 1 month ago
@JustAnotherBeardo And I am not saying he is all about rules over love and faith. I said it's better to focus on love and holiness, rather than on title or mere word, for the same word could have different meaning depends on the context.
For3nity 1 month ago
@100PercentCatholic I have submitted this as a video response to your video and you have not approved it yet. Are you planning on it?
theist77 1 month ago
@theist77 I usually block video responses by default because the majority of the time they are filled with hate, vulgar language, name calling, etc. They also many times spread lies about God and His Church and I do not like heretics videos gaining popularity by piggy backing on my videos. Not that I am accusing you of that, just pretty much a blanket rule I have. I do not mind intelligent discussions with anyone, and I figure that is what the comment section is for.
100PercentCatholic 1 month ago
@100PercentCatholic You have exposed your fear. Frankly, the video I did was right on.. I am all about respectful discussion but it seems that you are fearful of the argument that I gave. You should be able to defend your position and all others who come against it should look like failures. That would mean that you should be able to approve the video without fear/issue.
theist77 1 month ago
@theist77 -- I have to agree with you -- to say you are all about intelligent respectful discussion but then if you do not like how you came out on that discussion you just block censor that discussion is not learning or discourse, its conversational opportunism and censorship. Agree with me and make me look good or be censored. WOW. I am glad 100 percent catholic is catholic but he should respond to your comment with scholarship and response not censorship. oh the historical congruity.
JustAnotherBeardo 1 month ago
@theist77 I just agreed with Theist 77 and for what its worth given the Catholic church legitimate mistakes of trying to control belief through censorship and authoritarian measures in the past you might reconsider your policy when it comes to respectful faithful differences. The difference between you do is hardly a matter of Christian or no Christian, the fact that you would try to blot the argument from the face of you tube discussion is showing an amazing lack of trust in god.
JustAnotherBeardo 1 month ago
@100PercentCatholic I just agreed with Theist 77 and for what its worth given the Catholic church legitimate mistakes of trying to control belief through censorship and authoritarian measures in the past you might reconsider your policy when it comes to respectful faithful differences. The difference between you do is hardly a matter of Christian or no Christian, the fact that you would try to blot the argument from the face of you tube discussion is showing an amazing lack of trust in god.
JustAnotherBeardo 1 month ago
@JustAnotherBeardo I see 100Percent's point of not allowing ANY video responses. Say you were to make a video about Jesus and faith and it became very popular, getting hundreds of thousands of views. Then say an athiest were to post a video response to that, saying that God is not real. Every person that is seeing your video will get to see his now. You are pretty much indirectly supporing an atheist video and helping it to gain popularity. See the point.
rocketpower8484 1 month ago
By Catholics calling our priests father, we are certainly not trying to elevate them or say that they are on the same level as God as the Pharisees were trying to do. Notice in the Bible how Jesus says that He is the Good Shepherd (John 10:14) while at the same time asks other humans to shepherd His people (John 21:15-17, Ephesians 4:11, 1 Peter 5:2). Priests are here to help shepherd God's people on Earth. (continued)...
100PercentCatholic 1 month ago
@100PercentCatholic But, once again...Jesus said, do not get into the practice of being called "father" - "rabbi" etc. It is very clear. What you are saying here does not get you around that.
theist77 1 month ago
notice "Father" is capitalized.
nintendo768 1 month ago
Thank you! God bless
NezZyGB 1 month ago
I agree with you. We should never lift ourselves above others, no one is Holier than anyone else
ChRoPi21 1 month ago
@ChRoPi21 How is that possible when some people, including theist77, claims that god calls them to a specific task? If that is true, then we are by definition not equal and god raises chosen people above others.
ktrigg2 1 month ago
Great point...I agree.
jamlimited3 1 month ago
nullifying the Word of God for the sake of their own tradition...again
huguenot67 1 month ago
It should also be noted that calling a priest "father" is not lifting them up onto some great position but is, if anything, reminding them of their sacred duty, to be our fathers in the gospel through teaching and example. If anything it is a reminder of that responsibility, not a self-aggrandizement. Of course it is hardly a mandatory practice, I know many priests and if you did call them merely by their name they take no offense, it is much more a practice of filial love for those who serve us
redbaron998 1 month ago
@redbaron998 Jesus said very plainly not to do it...so, I still see this as an issue.
theist77 1 month ago
@redbaron998 A Church priest I know allows everyone to call him Wayne if they prefer instead of Pastor, although I call him Pastor Wayne. It may be a new trend in some Churches? I have long thought that the Pope's Holy Title is self adulation and grandiose. It stems still from the fact that Roman Catholics think they are the true and only Church.
BasilofOZ 1 month ago
Firstly, good on you for making a respectful response. Even though I disagree with you It is nice to see someone enter into this kind of discussion calmy and reasonably.
Secondly, I do not agree with your conclusion. If someone calls themselves Father and (as seen throughout the NT) others children, it does not seem surprising that they would be called "father" In addition the word "father" is used in the titular form for some figures such as Abraham.
redbaron998 1 month ago
@redbaron998 All dialogue should be out of respect and love. ;-) I mentioned Father Abraham" around 1:32 in the form of an annotation. Abraham was not alive and in the position of an office in Luke 16 where this is mentioned - nor anywhere else in scripture. This is not a situation that can be looked at as relevant to Matthew 23.
theist77 1 month ago
Agreed, and I think it is blasphemy to call the pope 'holy father'.
jesusflwr 1 month ago
Just to be pedantic: Q: How do know that Jesus was not simply instructing his Disciples alone not to be called Father, or Leader? Rather than extending it all the way down the generations of Church? Just wondering? PS: I think the Catholic Church is paying for your next extended holiday to Argentina?
BasilofOZ 1 month ago
Good video :-)
fettkatt87 1 month ago
This defies all logic. How can a man not have a father. Ha, you are pwned. God Bless.
MereChristianLogic 1 month ago