Pre-tribulation Rapture four verses show it's false- tim sauder Mennonite

[Kr0n1k4Lyfe]

This is just my belief, not saying its fact. But study Revelation for yourself I'm not even completely sure about Revelation its hard to understand :/

[frnz444]

@Kr0n1k4Lyfe The book of revelation has been interpreted so many different ways by so many people. It is obviously about something to do with a spiritual experience John had. End times? I am not sure. It repeats the story looking at it from various angles, such as spiritual, political, economical etc. My answer is wait and see and then we will know. I think it best to be ready at any time as we all meet the Lord in some way, death or second coming.

[Kr0n1k4Lyfe]

@frnz444 There is a taking up in the clouds (the rapture). This is a fact of the Bible.There is the taking up in the clouds,which is not the same as Christ coming down to Earth. And there is Christs second coming when his feet actually TOUCH Earth and the 1000 years begin.At the rapture we are kept from Gods wrath and join Jesus Christ.At the second coming to Earth (AFTER Gods wrath) his feet touch Earth and the thousand years begin. And those that refuse the Mark of the Beast are raised

[Kr0n1k4Lyfe]

Luke 21:36

"Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."

[frnz444]

@Kr0n1k4Lyfe Personally I agree with you. What if this whole seven year thing is wrong? What if the antichrist is and always has been here as John taught? What is Jesus will come sudenly anytime?

[Kr0n1k4Lyfe]

@frnz444 I'm not completely sure if its seven years but the length of the tribulation doesn't effect anything. I would think it would be 3-5 years long, something like that. Don't know for sure so I can't say. John talks about the Anti Christ spirit, anyone that denies Jesus Christ. But people usually call the first Beast of Revelation (The one that forces the Mark of the Beast) THE Anti-Christ, but hes really the first beast of Revelation starting at Revelation 13.

[Kr0n1k4Lyfe]

@frnz444 And the taking up in the clouds is before the Anti Christ. Jesus said " I will keep you FROM the hour of trial that shall come upon the WHOLE WORLD to TEST the inhabitants of the Earth."If all the Christians faced the Anti Christs rule most of us would die, and some would take the Mark and go to hell. If we faced this we wouldn't escape anything that is going to happen. The rapture is separate from the first resurrection (Right before the thousand years) and the second res (Right after)

[Kr0n1k4Lyfe]

@frnz444 The rapture is both dead and alive caught up together. People think Christians face the Anti Christ and die but the only people raised before the thousand years are those that refused the Mark of the Beast and died(The first resurrection).Thats either us in the future (Post trib view) or we are raptured BEFORE this along with the dead believers (Taking up in the clouds). If "escape" in luke 21:36 is the rapture then its pretty clear, we wont be here during the anti christ OR Gods wrath

[frnz444]

@Kr0n1k4Lyfe there are saints who die during the tribulation... did they miss the rapture? I doubt it. There is a second coming not a third. Find three in the bible and I will eat the whole thing. You need to see the one on the history of the pre trib rapture doctrine.

[Kr0n1k4Lyfe]

@frnz444 There will be Revolution when the Anti Christ forces his mark, people will be refusing it and dying for Christ instead, if the rapture isn't before this all of us will face this Mark.The saints that die during the tribulation get raised from among the dead to join Christ for the thousand years. The true born again Christians will be gone at the taking up in the clouds. These saints are pretty much left behind to face the tribulation, and they get raised from to reign for that 1000 years

[keeyk118b]

if you look at matthew 24 , 1st thessa and 2 thessa and corinth verses about being "caught up to meet the Lord" and co relate to revelations it is post tribulation.i personally believe that revelations 14 describes the rapture. at seven and last trump ( which it is sounded for days) with voice of arch angel, jesus on a cloud.

[ChristLikeness100]

I coined a phrase this morning for all false teachings: Westianity. (I'll explain it further if anyone asks). People in countries who are living under dreadful persecution know that Western 'teachings' bring only trouble and don't want what we have here. They'd rather be peersecuted for their real faith. God bless them and keep them.

[reflectinglight87]

thanks you so much for your video.

[fatboysporty1]

Heres what I do.. Read, Pray and wait on GOD! What ever happens I will be waiting on him dead or alive I will WAIT!!! :) Thats all we can do. If I loose my head in the tribulation so be it, If I am raptured so be it, Not my will but Gods. Praise the Lord Jesus Christ forever and ever AMEN.

[reflectinglight87]

@fatboysporty1 Amen

[pfisk82]

@fatboysporty1 Amen to that, brother.

[Myhopeisinhim]

@fatboysporty1

Well said:)

[1whoseeksthelight]

You are correct. I have wondered if the people who believe in the pre-tribulation rapture will be the catalyst for the great 'falling away' from Yahshua when it doesn't happen. Better yet, if they see a large amount of people being raptured by the Aliens/demons...to the space ships and they confuse that with 'Real Deal' and they believe they have been left behind. (Some people will never learn not to talk to strangers.) 

[scourge39]

Excellent refutation!

[frnz444]

@scourge39 There is lots more like Rev. 6 the martyrs killed during the great tribulation.... what I thought all Christians were in the rapture before it or in the middle ???? of course it is a doctrine for Biblically illiterate people.

[scourge39]

@frnz444 An eventful inductive study of Rev. 13 back in 1994 was what triggered my journey out of Dispensationalism/ 'pre-trib rapturism.' (I never knew some Mennonites believed in it too) I fully abandoned it during seminary in 1999 thanks to an NT prof who had just released a massive Revelation commentary back then. His Ph. D. Dissertation is called John's Use of the Old Testament in Revelation. Realizing that the Revelation descriptions come straight out of the OT was a real eye-opener.

[saudertim1]

@scourge39 I heard that there are over 100 passages out of the OT. Sounds high but I am not surprised. The problem is that young Christians stay in the NT not knowing how much of it is built on the Old. They do not know much if at all of the Prophets that Jesus said speak of him.

[scourge39]

@frnz444 Most pre-tribbers believe in a separation between Israel and the Church. Thus, they fail to realize that the visionary descriptions of John in Revelation come straight out of the Old Testament. This was something I learned in seminary that helped me reject a pre-trib 'rapture' altogether. Thankfully, most conservative New Testament reject the pre-trib view. It's folk theology, which is sad. I had no idea this junk had infiltrated Mennonite circles too.

[TrueValues77]

@frnz444 What we need here is a dose of humility.We all can be wrong but let the facts be addressed.Those saved during the tribulation are those that are left behind after the rapture.Remember Jesus talked about the 10 virgins which means christians.5 where foolish and 5 wise.They were left behind when the bridegroom came and were locked out.The marriage supper of the lamb is immediately after the rapture-which is pretribulation. See Isaiah 26:19-21.God removed Noah and Lot before destruction.

[frnz444]

@TrueValues77 <<lets wait and see. <i think it best not to be so dogmatic since the pre trib view makes three comings.

[TrueValues77]

@frnz444 THE LAST TRUMPET is talking about the last trumpet blown on Rosh Hashanah aka feast of trumpets.The 7 feasts of Israel r God's timetable.Christ fulfilled passover,unleaven bread and Firsfruits in his death,burial and resurrection to the exact days.50 days after he rose on First fruits as the first to rise from the dead we get pentecost which the Holy Spirit fulfilled.The next feast in line is Trumpets.THAT is the last trump Paul talks of not the judgemnt trumpets in revelation!!!

[frnz444]

@TrueValues77 Explain your view to yourself in that you seem like so many to have it all figured out. Lets just believe he is coming and let him tell us when. We are closer now then when we first believed. Then now coming. I just don't believe in three comings. If u do who cares because we will see the truth together.