RACHMANINOFF plays Prelude in C# Minor: 1919 Edison, 1923 Victor acoustic, 1928 Victor Electric

[beeteep60]

is the one recorded in 1919 ever put on cd?

[sanfranphono]

@beeteep60 Hello, if you search on the internet, there is actually a clean transfer of the edison recording. I believe there are two or three takes of it.

Cheers

[dbpsoccer121]

Why is this so out of tune?

[alternatehistories]

@dbpsoccer121 Old recordings are often out of pitch because there was a wide range of variation in speeds (RPM's) used to record and playback discs. Some 78's from that era need to be played back at 74,rpm 76 rpm, or even 80 rpm depending on the speed at which the disc was cut. It's enough to make a singer or instrument go flat or sharp, though only music geeks notice it. Ever wonder why singers from the 20's have that high, nasal sound?.....because the disc is being played too fast.

[vaseintibet]

i thought that his name was Sergei.

[ttslipknotrulez132]

@vaseintibet it is it's sergei rachmaninoff

[vaseintibet]

@ttslipknotrulez132 yeah ,but he wrote segei

[froggywenta]

I wonder what lubrication they used at the fulcrum points on the arm? And the turn table ? ( wonder if they were belt driven?) I just marvel at how far it has come to listen to music! BIG JOHN

[Starwalker6978]

Very nice how you put these three recordings together! I knew the latter two recordings, but not the Edison. Thank you for sharing!

[fifirockefeller]

Thank you for the education and the work you put into your comments.

[BmGeoBm]

if tesla had the monopoly and not edison, we'd be in a another world right now :D the world of wireless electricity, man-made earthquakes and teleportation devices that are used by the magicians...also, we would have flying cars and billion of dollars for every child in the world. also the game...oh, and the nazis would have used a tesla-coil-gun ...

i hope you understand all the references :)) i wasn't totally sarcastic, today's world would be better if tesla took edison's place

[sanfranphono]

@BmGeoBm I am staying OUT of that discussion.

Besides, from an outsiders perspective I think Edison's importance as an inventor may be partly hype, and the old man certainly did his part to it.

Compare him that with engineering giants like Werner von Siemens or Nikola Tesla, whose generator and motor designs are still used today.

[BaronCreel]

@sanfranphono Actually edison never invented anything, he just stole them all from inventors of that age.

[ragtimest]

@BmGeoBm You are absolutley right my friend!

[robertgift]

How interesting.

Thank you for your interesting photos and commentary.

Must read more when I have time.

[spadehatesscrewtube]

so i mean, by dissing both rachmaninoff and tesla, wasn't edison an all around asshole when you get down to it? not to mention quintessential corporate whore?

not to mention dealings with nazi germany? that was new to me .. granted i'm no genius. but yeah.

[sanfranphono]

@spadehatesscrewtube I would never go that far nor use this language.

One thing is for certain - Edison's death in 1931 precluded any involvements with the Third Reich.

As far as his corporate involvements go - Edison was remarkably unsuccessful in many of his business ventures, and especially on the electrification, he got quickly ousted out of corporate positions. So, no, as far as corporate involvements go, he ultimately comes across as the victim, not the controlling industrialist.

[spadehatesscrewtube]

@sanfranphono i disagree. he most definitely victimized and belittled tesla, so fuck 'em.

[alternatehistories]

@spadehatesscrewtube Ahh...Godwin's Law strikes again...LoL

[spadehatesscrewtube]

@alternatehistories elaborate?

[alternatehistories]

@spadehatesscrewtube Godwin's Law implies that any internet discussion...no matter what the topic will eventually degrade into a moral debate where invaribly...Hitler's name will be invoked and comparisons to the Nazis will be made.

[spadehatesscrewtube]

@alternatehistories wow, i wasn't aware of that one, thank you. just rule 32 or 42 or w/e and we really don't need to go there.

[riqzster]

Edison discs from World War I era were inherently noisy due to unavailability of carbolic acid, a necessary component. Have you heard an Edison disc in pristine condition, played on a properly restored Edison machine? Walter Welch, an Edison employee, produced a binaural re-recording of this which demonstrates the potential of Edison format. Contact the Belfer Archive at Syracuse University, which he founded. The machine you use here CANNOT properly reproduce that format, and will damage it.

[riqzster]

As for upright pianos, they were ideal for acoustic recording because of the ease of picking up sound directly from the sounding board, as illustrated in the photo you use here which was actually from around the year 1890.

[sanfranphono]

@riqzster

Yeah, but it was equally possible to record from a grand piano, and using a technically inferior upright is not only an insult to the artist, but also shows tin ears when it comes to musical quality.

[sanfranphono]

@riqzster

Yeah, because Edison sold his carbolic acid to the German Bayer company. Wonder if this would qualify for treason in wartime?

Even when you use a better pressing, the Victor acoustic is still much superior.

I used this machine because Edison Phonographs (even the Edisonic) have a rather spiky, muffled response, and no good bass because of the short horn. The horn of this machine is 30% longer than any Edison DD horn.

Pray tell, why would my machine damage the record?

[riqzster]

Your sarcastic tone betrays a lack of interest in truth. But in any case, the Edison reproducer utilized a diaphragm composed of cork and rice paper, which stiffens over time. That accounts for the "rather spiky, muffled response" and why I asked if you ever heard an Edison machine that was properly restored. Your machine is also damaging your Victor records due to the excessive pressure per square inch. Your remark about the German Bayer company made me laugh. You earthlings watch too much TV.

[sanfranphono]

@riqzster

The affair of Edison selling a strategic chemical to the Germans is well documented.

Sorry, you are talking of truth - according to the gospel of Edison or of Welch. Sorry, I am of little faith, but I judge with my own ears. Believe me I have listened over the years to Edison reproducers rebuilt by the various masters of the trade, and that's the reason why I chose this set-up. In addition to the rather dampened DD diaphragm, the conical, short horns do not produce the best sound.

[riqzster]

Now I know how the Germans won the war. Thanks. You're a genius.

[sanfranphono]

@riqzster No problem at all, since Welch and other apologists try hard to ignore Edison's shady war profiteering. It puts a different spin (no pun intended) on the bad quality of post-1916 Diamond Disks.

[chickenfizz]

I'm curious about the discussion between you and sanfranphono...

My knowledge of the players and the construction of the discs is very limited but I do know about sound reproduction and recording...

Surely it'd be far far superior to record the discs electrically? I imagine you'd need to get a specifically cut stylus but aside from that the accuracy and silence of a modern direct drive motor and flat and extended frequency response of modern cartridges recorded electrically would give much...

[chickenfizz]

...more accurate results. Plus significantly less pressure would be needed (and therefore less damage caused) as the record is not mechanically having to drive the air load inside a large horn. Recording it electrically would also obviously remove any room acoustic issues, and issues in response resulting from the recording microphone and any resonances/irregularities in the horn.

Am I missing something? I think I must be!

[riqzster]

I'm too am surprised that the topic of electrical transfers never came up in this discussion. There are some specialty vendors who advertise through the Association for Recorded Sound Collections (ARSC) with all sorts of stuff for that purpose. It's a field that I refer to as "audio archaeology". As far as original Edison equipment goes, I'm trying to obtain some demonstration samples from the Syracuse archive I referred to.

[PaulJuliusSokoloff]

Yes, Rachmaninoff did a lot of pounding, but with great technical perfection.

Edison's comment is about pounding is just Edison saying "I am narrow minded and know little about music and only like to hear music played gracefully and cannot handle someone's loud emotional playing."

Edison the idiot...

[sanfranphono]

Nah, you are very unkind - not only did Edison think of himself as GRIFATs - Greatest Inventor of all times : ), also a basically deaf man who listened to records by putting his teeth on the frame of his phonograph (I kid you not) should not be criticised, but kindly included in our evening prayers.

: )

[riqzster]

That "idiot" invented the recording industry and also laid the foundation that led to the technology that makes it possible for you to share this stuff, idiot . . .

[fortunad]

Great job! :)

[Noshirm]

Thanks so much for this post. It's incredible to hear Rachmaninoff in three versions of this piece. The accompanying text and images are a great help to those of us keen on learning more about these early recordings.

[Isolation1]

Wow! Its amazing hearing this. There is something about hearing the pieces from the orginal artists. Very unique.

[spannerworks1]

A Very nice recording. Thank you

Richard ;)