“‘The one that conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God, and that new name of mine. 13 Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations.’
@93Weswes Correct. Jesus IS 1 individual, so is God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit (yet the Spirit is of Christ) and all 3 share the same Divinity as ONE. Something humanity cannot fully understand or experience apart from God. God is ONE in unity in the most intimate and fullest sense of the word yet reveals Himself to humanity through 3 "persons". Father, Son and Spirit.
@Geronimo1501st god is our father and jesus is the finest exampe of how to honour him. setting the pattern for us to follow and giving a perfect example of faith now read your bible and pray for discernment wisdom guidance and truth to god in heaven ask for these things acourding to gods will he will give them and do not doubt him.
@Geronimo1501st Jesus is just the name of Him who was born as a human being yet who is eternal. At the time of Moses, Jesus revealed Himself to us as "the Angel of the Lord" or "Michael the Archangel". When "Michael" was resurrecting Moses, that was Jesus pre-incarnate.
@benjamin387967 Agreed. Jesus is NOT an Angel in the "created senses". But neither is "Michael". Note: Michael is the ONLY Archangel mentioned in the bible. Archangel can mean simply highest messenger and Michael is typically referred to in the SYMBOLIC books of the bible. So as in Revelation, like the dragon represents Satan. Michael represents Jesus Christ.
@benjamin387967 Didn't expect you to based on that short answer, but thank you for trying to understand our viewpoint. There is a link near the video to an excellent bible study giving more detail on why we believe this for you or anyone else to investigate further.
@sleanos Well there's no point your obviously a JW and no matter how much we both throw out biblical versus, we will never see or agree>>>> and I do study the bible but, some of us study it differently than you all do.
@benjamin387967 I'm sorry but for you to say I'm a JW shows you REALLY don't understand the difference. A JW will tell you that Michael and Jesus are one in the same but really IS a created being and NOT equal to God the Father. What we say is that Jesus IS the Son of God in the flesh, FULLY God equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. Michael is just another "title" for Jesus like Prince of Peace, Bread of Life, The Good Shepherd which helps make better sense of the prophecies. Good day.
@sleanos I agree again with you, but to put the title michael on Jesus? No, I disagree if that were the case why stop calling Jesus, michael in the new testament as it is mentioned again in Jude 1:9 as michael. "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today, and to day, and for ever!! Hebrews 13: 8
Although it doesnt mention arch Gabriel is mentioned in Luke 1:19 and he is an archangel....as in the book of Enoch mentions Archangel gabriel, michael, raphael.
@benjamin387967 Why don't we call continue to call the devil, the dragon or serpent or adversary? Because those are all symbolic names that describe LUCIFER. It is the same with Jesus. Michael, Prince of Peace, the Lamb of God, the Lion of Judah, David's Son, are all descriptors revealing Jesus to us more intimately. You can't just use 1 scripture to make your argument (Jude 1:9) take into account ALL the books/scriptures that talk of Michael the archangel for a balanced view.
@benjamin387967 If you're going to use the book of Enoch, I'm assuming you are NOT a protestant, nor do you understand why the book of Enoch is NOT considered to be inspired or used in the Canon of the Protestant Christian World. That is a whole new conversation as far as biblical sources are concerned. BTW It was never considered canonical for the Old Testament by the Jews, so you'll have to investigate their reasons why as well.
@sleanos I am a christian,don't be assuming what you don't know. As for the symbolic name you mentioned key word symbolism so we get who is being mentioned right, ya I get it I know but..... its not the same like completley changing the name which you are doing from michael to Jesus. Our Father had named him.! and by BTW archangel michael "still, still" has the name "Angel" in there so that means he is still being named an angel, there is no way around that! so again turn back to Hebrews 1:4
@benjamin387967 Note I didn't say you weren't a Christian, I said you weren't a PROTESTANT Christian if you consider the book of Enoch Canonical. Again, there's a difference.
@sleanos There really is little point to discussing Michael - Jesus if our source material differs. Now it's a matter of who's sources are best to consider the matter and why.
@benjamin387967 What is the biblical meaning of the word angel in the bible? It DOESN"T always mean a created angelic being. King David was called an "angel" as well as was the LORD Himself. Jesus has other "names" as well, not only Michael, but Emmanuel as well. Arch means highest or most important, angel simply means messenger. Jesus was the greatest messenger ever. Cherubim and seraphim are types of created angels. Jesus and Michael, from the text are neither of these.
@sleanos@sleanos angel almost always refers to as messenger, and ya david is called "like an Angel of God" not called an exact angel. but your still chainging his name from michael to Jesus. regardless of how you put it. If that were the case we would be saying lord michael...? Jesus is God, Lord, Word, Messiah, Alpha and Omega, Savior, Redeemer, Light of the World, Lamb of God, Ruler of Creation, Mediator, Bread of Life, Way, Truth, and Life!! I'll except not michael. So you can stop
@benjamin387967 Your beating a dead horse here. I'll say it again, we are NOT changing Jesus' name. "Michael" is simply a symbolic name pointing to Jesus in the same way the "Dragon" points to Lucifer. That is our understanding of it. You keep trying to say that we are saying Lord Michael and that is NOT what we are doing or saying. You're committing a logical fallacy here.
@sleanos OK my fault, but your taking the name michael as it refers to Jesus. Thats what I don't except. So in that sense I do not agree with your opinion sir.
@benjamin387967 I completely hear you and understand what you are saying. I understood that you didn't see eye to eye with us on this topic from your very first post on here. And as I mentioned earlier, for a full treatment on this topic there is a bible study link underneath the video for you or anyone else to consider. Prayerfully consider that study and let us know what you think afterwards.
@benjamin387967 The link isn't to a video. It's an actual bible study that you can print, and thoroughly go through all the evidence on why we believe this. I have NO clue why you would even post anything on my personal youtube page if you did not want to invite a reasonable/rational discussion on the matter. Seems to me you just want to shove your views on others by commenting here. I've given you something more meatier to consider and you reject it before looking at it. Very open minded.
1 Thessalonians 4:16, “because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet.”
If you say that He is an archangel because He came with and archangel’s voice, the by the same logic, He must also be God because he came with God’s trumpet.
@JLeeHaven No argument there. Jesus is God in the fullest sense of the word. Michael is simply another reference to the Son of God and His role in the plan of salvation. People get tied up when they insist Michael is just a head angel or a "created being" and not as we see it, a symbolic title representing Jesus pre-incarnation.
@JLeeHaven Having Gods trumpet does not mean you are the almighty God. Michael is the most powerful angel, a king, someone who will protect his people. These are the same charactistics of Jesus.
believe THE BIBLE. At Revelation 12:7-an angel named Michael and his angels battled with Satan and his angels and hurled them to the earth. At Revelation 20:1-an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss. Daniel 10:13,21-Michael is one of the foremost princes,vs.21 Michael is the prince of YOU people12:1-great prince(Isaiah 9:6-Jesus is Prince of Peace).Jude 9-Michael is archangel.Hebrews 1:4-He has become better than the angels.Michael destroys Satan-Rev.20:10
the father and I are one. John 10:30. God is not an archangel. he is the creator of all beings. visible and unseen. If Jesus claims that the father and him are one therefore, Jesus is God and the creator of everything. aside from that he claim in book of revelation that he is the alpha and the omega. there is no greater than that claim. the alpha has no beginning and that what's make him a God. not an angel. :-)
@archgabriel27 Agreed. Jesus is God in every sense of the word (the eternal Son of God), creator of everything and is NOT an angelic created being. Now prove to us that Michael the Archangel is just another "created angelic being" and not another symbolic reference/title for the Prince of Peace, the Bread of Life, The Captain of the Heavenly Hosts, Jesus Christ Himself.
King James Version (KJV) 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Plain and clear -(The Lord will come down with a shout with the voice of the archangel) WHO IS SHOUTING HERE The lord or the archangel? And the dead will rise up from the dead, will an angel raise the dead or will God?
@archgabriel27 You are correct; the underlining statement that declares who Micheal is; in Jude it speaks of how satan and the micheal argued over mosses dead body. There it can be seen that Micheal has authority but clearly can be disputed. I challenge anyone to show me where satan challanges God. No he challanges us humans. Eve, Job. Gensis shows god says to the serpent that he will be cursed. Satan can'targue with God/Jesus only can he argue with His creations. Which is how he learns/matures
@ghfjtuflhg Non sense. So the devil can TEMPT Jesus directly, but cannot argue with Him? There is no maturation with Satan biblically speaking. Scripture makes it clear his ways do not and have not changed since his fall from the heavenly courts and so his death is sealed when he tempted the Jews/Romans to put Jesus to death.
@clawson4635 No not directly. But it's well understood in Jewish culture that God resurrected Moses. If Jesus is the resurrection and the life then it was Jesus that resurrected Moses. And there is enough evidence to consider that Michael and Jesus are one in the same, hence Moses was resurrected by Michael.
@sleanos Would I be correct in assuming you do not accept the Bible as the complete Word of God and you believe it is ok to refer to Jewish cultural beliefs as Bible facts?
@clawson4635 Nope sorry you would be wrong in assuming that. The Bible is complete and shows us the way to God through Jesus Christ. But there is no mistaking that God DID in fact resurrect Moses. Did He not? I'll say it again though. God = Jesus, so Jesus resurrected Moses. And there is enough evidence in the Bible alone to suggest that Michael and Jesus are one in the same. Hence, "Michael" resurrected Moses.
@sleanos You stated (But there is no mistaking that God DID in fact resurrect Moses.). Where can I find the resurrection of Moses in the Bible? I cannot find any scripture to validate this resurrection.
@clawson4635 Did Moses die in the Old Testament? Yes he did. Was Moses speaking to Jesus with Elijah in the New Testament. Yes he was. How could Moses speak to Jesus if Moses was not resurrected? See LUKE 9:28-36
@sleanos. They were in spirit form because they will not receive their resurrection body until the appointed time of reward. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. We have angels around us but we do not see them because our eyes are not open. Elisha’s servant could not see until God opened his eyes. We can see if God allows it. Just as Moses and Elijah were seen. Was Elijah also ressurected ?
@clawson4635 Nope. Elijah was translated to heaven without seeing death. So when Elijah came to see Jesus he was in bodily form, not some ghostly spirit thing. Moses likewise was in bodily form. When Jesus was resurrected and then came back to see the disciples, did He or did He not have bodily form that could be touched despite also being able to come/go as He pleased. The Angels as well are around us, but also have bodily form that can be seen/touched when the Lord allows it.
@sleanos You stated (Elijah was translated to heaven without seeing death. So whenElijah came to see Jesus he was in bodily form, not some ghostly spirit thing.) The Bible says Elijah could not have gone to heaven in his natural body. 1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
@clawson4635 The scripture is correct , flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God, that is not without being born of the Spirit. There is no argument nor contradiction from my viewpoint here or with what I said earlier. I think you're making the scripture say more than what it really is.
@sleanos Jesus is the only one that has been raised in a glorified body. There is no scripture about Moses resurrection. Elijah was taken in a whirlwind but could not enter heaven in his natural earthly body. Moses and Elijah will not receive their glorified bodies until the appointed time when Jesus returns for his people. These are the Bible facts we have that cannot be refuted. Now can you explain to me based on these facts how they were seen on the mount of transfiguration.
@clawson4635 Where did all those people that the Lord resurrected when He rose again go? Answer: they were the first fruits, typified by one of the feast days of the Old Testament unto the Lord. There are many saints up in heaven with their glorified bodies since they could not be there in their own previous sinful bodies. They are all exceptions & examples to illustrate what will occur at the 2nd coming. Just because YOU say something is a bible fact, doesn't make it so friend. That's dogma.
@sleanos Definition of DOGMA: something held as an established opinion; especially: a definite authoritative tenet. I don't give opinions I give facts as established by Bible scholars. You did not answer my earlier question. You asked me a question instead. That’s a good tactic when you don't have an answer. The answer to your question is after they were resurrected they went into Jerusalem.
@clawson4635 No offense, but I'll say it again. What you stated is your Dogma because I can quote you from numerous other Bible scholars as well. But that will get us nowhere. I asked you a question instead of answering your question... why? Because I've answered numerous statements already and am trying to get you to think. There is nothing wrong with my approach either. The Lord Himself used this approach on others to get them to think. He is our example in all things.
@clawson4635 Bible reveals all sorts of exceptions to reveal spiritual truths to us. Moses & Elijah for example represent the Law and the Prophets, but also two classes of people near the end times, those who will die and be resurrected and those who will not see death and be translated to heaven.
@johnwinofficial That's right. Last I checked we have that freedom or are you of the mindset that you can just grafiti and say what ever you want whenever you want WHERE EVER you want? And I would let your comments go through if you had something more intelligent and respectful to say that just "bunch of bull". You have a God given mind and mouth, use it.
Since all the religions that spawned from Abraham are based on Zoroastrianism to some extent or another, wouldn't it be important to look at where he (ol'Abe) got his spirituality from? 'Cause I'm sure there's an older parallel that came out of Mesopotamia. Anyways, maybe that'll be a jumping off point for someone else to weight in. Ciao.
@MrWarProfiteer Your assumption that the Abrahamic religions are based on or derived from Zoroastrianism is unfounded and lacking in historical evidence.
@tobysoter Listen. You are FREE to your own opinions of course, but you need to consider the biblical evidence objectively. Say Michael is not Jesus or vice versa doesn't make it so of course.
@clevelandshero23 Jesus IS God, so is His Father, so is the Holy Spirit. 3 yet they are one in divinity, character, & purpose. Think of it like this. Time is made up of past, present and future. You need all three to have time. Or Space = height, length, width. God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. This is what scripture teaches and probably the best any mortal man can explain the triune God.
@clevelandshero23 I don't think you understand. The 3 in 1 notion is the Catholic trinity error. The Biblical Godhead is that there are 3 beings in heaven united in love, purpose, character and Divinity all equally God. God is One in Unity, I don't believe the scriptures teach that God is 1 numerically. Read the scriptures and then look at all the object lessons in the Bible starting with marriage for example. Man + Woman = 1 flesh, yet 2 individuals. The church is to operate as One, etc, etc.
@sleanos oh ok so you believe in 3 Gods but the bible do not indicate that Jesus is equal to God actually Jesus him self says that the father is greater than him
@clevelandshero23 The bible also teaches that Jesus was with God and was God. Not only that but then the Father Himself exalts Jesus' name above every other name (every means every including His own). Father, Son and Holy Spirit are still equal in divinity despite the specific roles they play in salvation.
@clevelandshero23 I already did. Jesus IS God and so is His Father and so is the Holy Spirit. Like light made up of 3 groups, 1 cannot bee seen nor felt, the other can be seen, and the other can be felt as heat, yet all 3 are light and without 1 of them light cannot exist.
@clevelandshero23 I think you are wanting me to answer a particular that I believe is contrary to the scriptures. Are you a Jehovah WItness or Oneness Pentacostal or something?
@chyrd No fighting, but openly and honestly discussing what the Bible teaches as the Bible says we should (which is just good common sense anyhow). So much for th atheist who says we just have blind faith and check our minds out for the season.
@sleanos but you do have blind faith.... your denominations may not agree on all parts of the interpretations, but you certainly all share blind faith... using the bible to prove stories from the bible is circular reasoning.
@chyrd What you stated is a straw man argument and just evidence of your ignorance on the matter. You drank the koolaid friend. Faith by definition is believing in someone or something because of evidence. They have proven themselves to you &so you can trust and believe in them. For the Christian it is like that with God. We just happen to disagree on the subtler points. Evidence to have faith in God &Bible comes from history, archaeology, prophecy, medical science and even science.
@sleanos But the strongest evidence to believe in God is putting the promises of God found in the Bible to the test for yourself. We don't use the bible to prove the bible. It simply states it is what it is. You have to dig in a littler deeper.
@sleanos you don't use the bible to prove the bible??? Yet you have to dig in deeper... come on... really? You don't use biblical prophecy to prove the bible is true? I think you are being a little dishonest there.
@chyrd And I think your comments are a bit ignorant and arrogant. IF i used the bible to prove that bible true and that's all THEN that would be circular reasoning. But what I'm telling you is that the bible gives evidence to consider for its truthfulness, and history/archaeology confirm this. In the mouths of 2 or more witnesses let everything be established. How do YOU explain the bible predicting exactly the rise of Rome and the dark age period reign?
@chyrd Yes you are because here is the difference. You are stating things as factual, I am simply sharing my belief in my faith and not imposing it on others. You came onto MY personal youtube page to try and tell me I'm wrong, my faith is wrong and that there is no God or at least its not the one in the Bible. As if making a statement like that on a youtube comment box was going to accomplish anything. That would be like me knocking on YOUR door and telling you have to believe in our God.
@sleanos Please tell me where the bible predicts the rise of Rome, and the dark ages specifically... tell me how I couldn't possibly interpret it any other way... the predictions as far as I can tell are no better at predicting things than a horoscope.
@chyrd I've given you the website to study it out otherwise keep viewing the videos on my youtube page. "prophecies = horoscope" I'm sorry but that is a very ignorant statement and proves to me that you have NOT even remotely studies the numerous timeline prophecies found in the books of Daniel and Revelation amongst other. I've given you an Excellent site that will give you evidence to study bibleuniverse(dot)c.om the prophecy course - check it out.
@chyrd Sorry can't do that. That's like me asking you to prove you love your spouse only don't use your spouse as evidence. We use history/archaeology, etc to see and prove if what the bible teaches is true or not. That is being fair and objective about the evidence.
@chyrd And proving that God can change human hearts and His promises in the bible are true and sure is easy for me, but it's subjective and clearly not something you would consider. Do you really believe this whole universe just created itself in the Big Bang or similar theory? Isn't it more logical to believe that anything that was created had a creator? God of the Bible claims to be self-existent eternally who created everything in the beginning. faith statement I know.
@chyrd Check out Robert Gentries documentaries sometime "The Young Age of the Earth" & "Fingerprints of Creation". check out his bio, etc. Have an open mind, listen to the evidence he presents and then go from there where ever that may lead you.
@sleanos Oh please show me the straw man??? the very definition of faith is firm belief in something for which there is no proof!!! Look it up... it's in Mirriams... I've already said that you disagree on the subtle and not so subtle... You know as well as I do, that most christians think they have it right and the others have it wrong... but please... indulge me... where is my straw man?
don't tell me about prophecy, medical science and "science".. if god wanted to do us all a favor, he would have told us to wash our hands before eating... He would have also told us that slavery was bad, and NOT to rape children... he didn't do those either. Faith comes strictly from indoctrination at a young age!!! Give me the child at 7 and I will give you the man... know why the Jesuits said that? because they knew if you scared someone at an early age, it's hard to deprogram them.
@chyrd Prophecy - why not? It has very convincing TIME/DATE prophecies in it that even explain then entire period of the Dark Ages and Roman supremacy. Even if you dismiss Old Testament prophecy..it's VERY hard to simply dismiss or ignore the NT prophecies. They are not vague or generic in terms like reading a horoscope. Only someone who hasn't seriously studied that would say that because even skeptics say yes they are accurate and true but still dismiss it for various reasons.
@sleanos it is very easy to dismiss the prophecies... they are very vague, and given the hiistoricity of the events vs. when they were written about, they are dubious at best.
I bet you can't name one skeptic who says they are accurate and true...
@chyrd You see that's what I'm talking about. You obviously have not studied the prophecies because they are not vague at all. They give LOTS of indicators of the main players in the history with exact dates and time frames to tie them all together. Ex, bible predicted the exact reign of the papacy and the dark ages for more than 1200 years which is why protestantism came about and the papacy did all they could to keep the bible out away from the common people.
@sleanos and again, did I not say that I wouldn't get into prophecy? yet you are parading it around as if it actually holds water. Do you know that Muslims say the same about the Qu'ran? Are there prophecies not true? Why don't you believe there book?
@chyrd You won't get into prophecy and so you dismiss some of the most convincing evidence that the Bible is true and accurate. From my viewpoint, if the Bible did not have such convincing prophetic timelines and descriptors I would have dismissed it as just another religious book with some good teachings in it no different than any other religious book. So we must depart ways since you ask for evidence and will not consider this.
@chyrd I've studied what Muslims say about the Qu'ran. Stop with the generalities and get into the specifics, the details and you'l find there is a DRASTIC difference between prophecy in the Qu'ran and prophecy in the Bible. The Qu'rans prophecies really are like horoscopes in that they can be adopted and related generally. The bible's prophecies are VERY specific tied to timelines that only fit in certain period of history.
@sleanos you state that I have not studied... and I can state the same about you... what do you know about the arguments against your faith... I don't think you know any at all
@chyrd Are you kidding me. Let's see for starters go to any Christian apologetics site/book that deals with ALL the objections against the faith. Then go to sites/books and speakers like Hitchens, Dawkins, the Atheist Bible online, and talkorigins(dot)org. the List is endless but I've investigated the majority of the claims against they faith and find them either unconvincing, lacking evidence, subject to presuppositions and even some just flat out lies and/or opinions. So I am now a Christian.
@hannahr77 Thank you. And no offense, but your last comment was rather insulting. Understand that we don't believe Michael is an actual "created being or angel" but rather just another TITLE for Christ preincarnate. Jesus is fully God, the God/Man, the Creator, the Son of God, full Deity. BIG difference than what cults who deny the divinity of Christ believe, even if you disagree with us. The scriptures speak for themselves and give plenty of evidence to consider.
@sleanos so give me chapter and verse of the specific prophecies that you are talking about and we can discuss those in detail, instead of just trying to bully me around by stating I don't know what I'm talking about... if you want to have a conversation I'm all for it... but don't just sit there making assumptions... show me what you are talking about and we will discuss them... Don't brush me off telling me to just go take some bible study program. You might be surprised with what I do know
@chyrd I can give you the answer but what good would that do since you don't believe the foundation for why these things are accurate or how they should be interepreted. None the less I'll do you one better. Here's a chart with verses & timelines. Review and get back to me: bit(DOT)ly/bZACCw
@chyrd Famous author/writer C.S.Lewis was a hardcore atheist and skeptic before his conversion. Read his bio some time. You asked for one so there is one. You want more?
@sleanos You talk about logical fallacies, then you bring up that C.S. Lewis was a hardcore atheist... as if that isn't an appeal to authority... LOL... come on.... you can do better than that... Kirk Cameron says he was an atheist as well... where is the proof?
@chyrd See there is no right answer for you. I wasn't giving this as proof of anything. You simply said that I couldn't name not one skeptic who said the prophecies were true. I did and all you did was turn the your question around and try and hit me with the logical fallacy of appeal to authority (which I was not doing) but you did a similar thing when you gave sam harris, hitchens, etc as evidences for why you are not a christian. Regardless. I still think you are being arrogant & pompous now
@sleanos the only people that I've seen dismiss facts are theists... in spite of empirical evidence, they choose to dismiss it because it doesn't jive with their book... Look at the excuse christian's give for dinosaur bones... "the devil planted them there to make the earth look older" LOL... come on...
@chyrd Your statement here indicates to me that you perhaps haven't fully investigated all of the statements/evidences. I think the answer you just stated from some Christians is absurd as well. Nice try though trying to use that argument here as if I believed that. You should ask what I believe instead of using any old argument against me.
@chyrd "Faith comes from indoctrination at a young age!!" - says who? I didn't grow up in the church and spent at least a few years seriously studying the evidences for the Bible and Christianity along with other religions in my adulthood before being faced with a decision to accept or reject the overwhelming convincing evidence for the Bible and Christian faith from a particular denomination persuasion. History tells us of MANY intelligent people accepting the faith as adults also.
@sleanos I'm not saying that there haven't been conversions late in life... a personal friend of mine went from being a jew to being a methodist. but you can't deny that the majority of believers, were in fact indoctrinated at an early age...you keep saying overwhelming evidence... but I've looked for evidence... and have not found it... do share
@chyrd I agree... indoctrination happens at an early age for MANY things in life, not just religion. Your bias against religion -Christianity in particular is your right and opinion to hold of course, doesn't make it wrong for the rest of us. Since you asked for evidence, please take the free prophecy course at bibleuniverse(dot)com sometime. It's 24 studies with video but well worth considering. That's just for starters...
@chyrd I've read both in fact When I read for example a Letter to a christian nation, I marked up practically the whole book with notes because much of what Sam Harris writes I believe is in error. I'll have to dig my copy out sometime. If you have skype I'd be happy to show it to you as well and discuss via video 1on1. let me know
@chyrd The Jesuits are a part of the Roman church you would be VERY surprised at everything the Bible has to say about that religious body as a whole. Why do you think the dark ages happened and they tried to keep the BIble out of the common people's hands.
@sleanos I'm not surprised by anything in the bible... what I am continually surprised about is the amount of christian sects... each saying they have it correct and the other's don't... believe me, I know the hang up with the catholic church... but the protestants these days aren't much better... mega churches popping up all over the place... they are just as bad!!!
@chyrd Agreed- and if you would study bible prophecy, you would know the bible addresses all of that too. The role of the papacy and protestantism is discussed in prophecy along with why there are so many denominations when Jesus prayed that His followers would all be one.
@sleanos so if jesus prayed (which is silly if you think about his divinity), that all his followers be one... which one of you are correct? the gospels couldn't even agree
@chyrd That's your opinion of course. I disagree. The gospels harmonize perfectly and if you study bible prophecy God will guide you to His true remnant church. (This isn't arrogant or saying that many other Christians from other groups will be lost or saved) Just stating that God makes it clear on what true Christianity will be like. But since you will not study prophecy as you mentioned before, no sense in me telling you anymore.
@sleanos I will give you this... I usually get quite upset about someone who censors their comments... at least you have the courage of your convictions... I commend you
@chyrd I do because that's is how solid faith in the Word of God can be when studied seriously instead of simply dismissing everything or taking a superficial stance against it.
@sleanos I can assure you that I didn't take a cursory glance at religion at all... I asked a lot of questions and didn't like the answers... "you must just have faith"... I'm sorry that's not an answer... I was raised religious... and did a lot of studying on my own afterwards... do not doubt that I didn't take it seriously!!! As for dismissing god... no... I didn't do that... I looked for him everywhere
@chyrd You are correct an answer like "you must just have faith" is no answer at all and NOT the approach Jesus used with His followers as the Bible teaches. Study the life of Christ to see HOW and what He used to convince His followers about Himself. check out the free prophecy course sometime on bibleuniverse(dot)com. The evidence makes perfect sense as presented. I can't say that same thing for other denominations of Christianity. Do you have an open mind to be objective about the info?
@sleanos Do you honestly believe that someone that was raised in a religious home and later became an atheist doesn't have an open mind? Seems to me that most theists believe that being an atheist means you know unequivocally that god doesn't exist... I think you would find that most atheists, are open to new information, and if that information led us to god... so be it... I've looked at a lot of evidence, and concluded god doesn't exist, if you have something new, bring it on.
@chyrd Some do and some don't. I would say the same thing about some theists as well. Just a fact of life. Atheist def. Semantics - pick a definition of the word because some say atheists are people who say there is no God, others would say they are people who do not believe in God.or that there is one. There is an excellent course at bibleuniverse(dot)com that when you go through and complete I'm positive it will spur on new avenues in the faith you may not have investigated before.
@sleanos I know you don't like looking up definitions in the dictionary (faith), but the term means a - or without, theism - god, or diety. in the strictest sense of the term it means a lack of believe in a god. You didn't answer my question... do you honestly believe that I haven't done my research? Because I'm getting a little tired of your patronizing tone.
@chyrd Look I don't care if you have done your research or not (and I don't know). All I'm saying is that you come to MY youtube page to tell me I'm wrong about a lot of stuff you don't believe in or have not fully studied. I've shared with you some things and have given you resources to check out from MY perspective. It's up to you whether or not you want to check it out or not...otherwise please leave my youtube page. Noone is twisting your arm here to stay and continue this conversation.
please read 1 thes 4: 16. The meaning of hebrew word angel means messenger. Also Mal 3:1 where Jesus is called as messenger or Angel or Arch Angel. He is the cheif messenger for the God head. In old testament an Angel appears and addresses Himself as Jehovah can't you identify that friend.
It doesn't say Michael "ressurected Moses" it says he dared not dispute with the devil for the "body" of Moses. It also does not say the one that appeared to Michael was an "archangel". We are going to need some intellectual honesty here if we are going to find truth.
@mephibosheth Who alone can resurrect anyone? It is Jesus. Was Moses resurrected? Yes apparently so because He appears to Jesus along side Elijah. Nowhere in scripture does it ever say that Moses was resurrected, but we do have the passage in Jude 1:9 that speaks of Michael disputing about the body of Moses with the devil. And because we beleive there is enough evidence that Michael is Jesus, hence Michael/Jesus resurrected Moses. Enough honesty?
Sorry to say meph, but your so called "intellectual honesty" is nothing more than "intellectual perversion", and devoid of sound logical reason and deduction. The evidence that Michael is Christ is overwhelming. It is Jesus who will stand up for His people in the Time of Trouble, hence Michael will "stand up" in Daniel 12. However, Jesus is still Divine, not created. This is the difference between Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses.
@celioabatti Go back to the Hebrew friend, many theologians feel the English passage on this (one of the chief princes) was a poor translation. It should have been translated the "first of". And we already know "Michael" means one who is like God. Well there is NO created being who is like God, so it is a reference to the Son of God Himself. the first and the last.
@sleanos i'm pretty sure the name michael means "Who is Like God?" which is a rhetoricle question showing how great God is and that no one is like him
@MichaelTheArchAsia I hear ya but on what basis do you make it a question? It isn't based on language constructs. It is meant to be a statement, just like all the Hebrew names and their meanings. You're playing semantics.
@celioabatti Your response here clearly lets me know that you dit d not in fact read the study available below the video, because if you did you have had to acknowledge that we believe the interpretation there of Michael in Dan 10 is in fact better translated as the first chief prince and not simply 1 of many, especially since Michael is the ONLY archangel ever mentioned in the Bible and ALWAYS in the singular.
Yes, according to Ellen G. White, the Seventh-day Adventist's prophet, and also taught by the Jehovah's Witnesses. Evangelical Christianity has rejected the teaching that Michael is Christ, because it is not biblical. It may surprise you to learn that there are only five references in the entire Bible to Michael, and not one reference names Michael as Jesus Chris
@celioabatti It may surprise you to realize that what you are saying is only PARTIALLY true which makes me question your honesty in general. You have failed to point out that Seventh-day Adventists do NOT agree with Jehovah's witnesses stance that Jesus/Michael is a created being. Again, from our study of scripture we believe Michael is ANOTHER TITLE for Jesus, not that Jesus is a created anything, Jesus IS the Creator Himself. I'll ask again, have you read the study available at bottom of vid?
Is JESUS GOD? Lets see what the BIBLE has to say; God Jhn 1:1; Mat 1:23; Isa 40:3 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever Hbr 1:8 The Mighty God Isa 9:6 The Everlasting God Isa 40:28 The True God 1Jo 5:20 My Lord and my God Jhn 20:28 God my Saviour Luk 1:47 Over all, God blessed for ever.Amen Rom 9:5 God manifest in the flesh 1Ti 3:16 Our God and Savior 2Pe 1:1 The great God and our Saviour, Jesus Christ Tts 2:13 Emanuel, God with us Mat 1:23
@celioabatti Good then we and the video above are in complete agreement. Jesus is not a created angelic being. That doesn't change the fact though that Michael the archangel is a title used to describe Jesus before His birth in Bethlehem. I think much of the Christian world misunderstands who and what Michael actually is.
@sleanos Hbr 1:5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Hbr 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Hbr 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.
@celioabatti I don't think you understand friend. We believe the way and manner in which "Michael the Archangel" is used is in reference to Jesus, another title or symbol of Christ. Not that Jesus is a created being or an angel. However scripture over and over refers to Him as The Angel of the Lord numerous times, or the Prince of Heaven, the Father Himself and yes as Michael as well. Have you studied the link at the bottom of the video on the manner to understand from our perspective?
@sleanos After 20 years of studying the BIBLE there is no doubt that JESUS is The Alpha & OMEGA The Almighty. Also The Son of GOD. Definetelly not some angel Remember in the book of DANIEL when Michael was fighting over moses body and michael said the LORD REBUKE YOU , Obviously that was not the JESUS from Luke cahpter 4 that confronted and rebuked the DEVIL IN PERSON.
@celioabatti No doubt that Jesus is both alpha & omega the Almighty, & the Son of God. However I'll say it again, we don't agree with you that Michael is just some reference to a high ranking created angelic being, but rather a symbolic title of Christ pre-incarnate. Ur third party example is of no effect because Christ in the NT often refers to Himself in the third person: Mk 8:38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man shall be ashamed of him at the day of judgment.
Many people seem to be repulsed that Jesus could ever be referred to as an angel. But the does exactly this. "and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts." (Mal 3:1) The word "messenger" is the Hebrew word "mal'ak", and is the same word used in the OT for "angel".
ALLELUYA!!!!!!! GLORY TO GOD OUR FATHER AND JESUS CHRIST HIS SON!!!! FOR THEY HAVE SHOWN MORE PEOPLE ABOUT WHO THE SON OF GOD IS!!! OF COURSE JESUS AND MICHAEL ARE THE SAME PERSON. GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!
"micheal is never called an angel in the bible hes called an arch angel", LOL what. isnt an archangel a higher ranking angel. at least thats my understanding. the problem i think is that its heavily doctrined in their teachings that this preacher has to accept but he has to come up with an excuse of some kind, cuz if an arch angel isnt an angel then shoot me dead and call me stuped.
@shipkleo arch means chief or principal & angel sometimes simply means messenger as king David & others are referred to as angels as well even though they are not. Michael is only referred to in highly prophetic / symbolic books and is a reference/ pointer to Jesus preincarnate and His work prior to His virgin birth. He is the Chief Messenger come down from heaven to us.
@preceski412 *sigh* I once thought as you did... thank God He came into my life and opened my eyes to His magnificence and Glory revealed in Jesus. Thank God I am now truly living and experiencing life! His ways really are best. Everyone has the choice to find that out for themselves though...
100 percent michael=jesus.
Chillmatic869 3 weeks ago
Im not doubting what your saying but how can Jesus appear as Michael to resurrect Moses if Jesus was not born yet? This simply cant be.
Geronimo1501st 2 months ago
@Geronimo1501st Let me ask you: How was Jesus able to reveal Himself to humanity throughout the Old Testament if He was not born yet?
sleanos 2 months ago
@sleanos
Revelation 3:12
“‘The one that conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out [from it] anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God, and that new name of mine. 13 Let the one who has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations.’
100michristensen 2 months ago
@sleanos Because God AKA Jesus is one individual not three or any such other number.
93Weswes 3 weeks ago
@93Weswes Correct. Jesus IS 1 individual, so is God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit (yet the Spirit is of Christ) and all 3 share the same Divinity as ONE. Something humanity cannot fully understand or experience apart from God. God is ONE in unity in the most intimate and fullest sense of the word yet reveals Himself to humanity through 3 "persons". Father, Son and Spirit.
sleanos 3 weeks ago
@Geronimo1501st god is our father and jesus is the finest exampe of how to honour him. setting the pattern for us to follow and giving a perfect example of faith now read your bible and pray for discernment wisdom guidance and truth to god in heaven ask for these things acourding to gods will he will give them and do not doubt him.
04080601 2 months ago
@Geronimo1501st Jesus is just the name of Him who was born as a human being yet who is eternal. At the time of Moses, Jesus revealed Himself to us as "the Angel of the Lord" or "Michael the Archangel". When "Michael" was resurrecting Moses, that was Jesus pre-incarnate.
sleanos 2 months ago
ANGELS ARE OU GREAT LIGHT FRIENDS AND JESUS IS OUR LORD, LORD OF ALL THE ANGELS AND SUPREME MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE.
WILLIAMFOLIAO10 2 months ago
Great job. This is like bible study 101, thanks.
ruffaz24 3 months ago
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benjamin387967 3 months ago 5
@benjamin387967 Agreed. Jesus is NOT an Angel in the "created senses". But neither is "Michael". Note: Michael is the ONLY Archangel mentioned in the bible. Archangel can mean simply highest messenger and Michael is typically referred to in the SYMBOLIC books of the bible. So as in Revelation, like the dragon represents Satan. Michael represents Jesus Christ.
sleanos 3 months ago
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benjamin387967 3 months ago
@benjamin387967 Didn't expect you to based on that short answer, but thank you for trying to understand our viewpoint. There is a link near the video to an excellent bible study giving more detail on why we believe this for you or anyone else to investigate further.
sleanos 3 months ago
@sleanos Well there's no point your obviously a JW and no matter how much we both throw out biblical versus, we will never see or agree>>>> and I do study the bible but, some of us study it differently than you all do.
benjamin387967 3 months ago
@benjamin387967 I'm sorry but for you to say I'm a JW shows you REALLY don't understand the difference. A JW will tell you that Michael and Jesus are one in the same but really IS a created being and NOT equal to God the Father. What we say is that Jesus IS the Son of God in the flesh, FULLY God equal with the Father and the Holy Spirit. Michael is just another "title" for Jesus like Prince of Peace, Bread of Life, The Good Shepherd which helps make better sense of the prophecies. Good day.
sleanos 3 months ago
@sleanos I agree again with you, but to put the title michael on Jesus? No, I disagree if that were the case why stop calling Jesus, michael in the new testament as it is mentioned again in Jude 1:9 as michael. "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday today, and to day, and for ever!! Hebrews 13: 8
Although it doesnt mention arch Gabriel is mentioned in Luke 1:19 and he is an archangel....as in the book of Enoch mentions Archangel gabriel, michael, raphael.
benjamin387967 3 months ago 2
@benjamin387967 Why don't we call continue to call the devil, the dragon or serpent or adversary? Because those are all symbolic names that describe LUCIFER. It is the same with Jesus. Michael, Prince of Peace, the Lamb of God, the Lion of Judah, David's Son, are all descriptors revealing Jesus to us more intimately. You can't just use 1 scripture to make your argument (Jude 1:9) take into account ALL the books/scriptures that talk of Michael the archangel for a balanced view.
sleanos 3 months ago
@benjamin387967 If you're going to use the book of Enoch, I'm assuming you are NOT a protestant, nor do you understand why the book of Enoch is NOT considered to be inspired or used in the Canon of the Protestant Christian World. That is a whole new conversation as far as biblical sources are concerned. BTW It was never considered canonical for the Old Testament by the Jews, so you'll have to investigate their reasons why as well.
sleanos 3 months ago
@sleanos I am a christian,don't be assuming what you don't know. As for the symbolic name you mentioned key word symbolism so we get who is being mentioned right, ya I get it I know but..... its not the same like completley changing the name which you are doing from michael to Jesus. Our Father had named him.! and by BTW archangel michael "still, still" has the name "Angel" in there so that means he is still being named an angel, there is no way around that! so again turn back to Hebrews 1:4
A
benjamin387967 3 months ago 2
@benjamin387967 Note I didn't say you weren't a Christian, I said you weren't a PROTESTANT Christian if you consider the book of Enoch Canonical. Again, there's a difference.
sleanos 3 months ago
@sleanos There really is little point to discussing Michael - Jesus if our source material differs. Now it's a matter of who's sources are best to consider the matter and why.
sleanos 3 months ago
@benjamin387967 What is the biblical meaning of the word angel in the bible? It DOESN"T always mean a created angelic being. King David was called an "angel" as well as was the LORD Himself. Jesus has other "names" as well, not only Michael, but Emmanuel as well. Arch means highest or most important, angel simply means messenger. Jesus was the greatest messenger ever. Cherubim and seraphim are types of created angels. Jesus and Michael, from the text are neither of these.
sleanos 3 months ago
@sleanos @sleanos angel almost always refers to as messenger, and ya david is called "like an Angel of God" not called an exact angel. but your still chainging his name from michael to Jesus. regardless of how you put it. If that were the case we would be saying lord michael...? Jesus is God, Lord, Word, Messiah, Alpha and Omega, Savior, Redeemer, Light of the World, Lamb of God, Ruler of Creation, Mediator, Bread of Life, Way, Truth, and Life!! I'll except not michael. So you can stop
benjamin387967 3 months ago 2
@benjamin387967 Your beating a dead horse here. I'll say it again, we are NOT changing Jesus' name. "Michael" is simply a symbolic name pointing to Jesus in the same way the "Dragon" points to Lucifer. That is our understanding of it. You keep trying to say that we are saying Lord Michael and that is NOT what we are doing or saying. You're committing a logical fallacy here.
sleanos 3 months ago
@sleanos OK my fault, but your taking the name michael as it refers to Jesus. Thats what I don't except. So in that sense I do not agree with your opinion sir.
benjamin387967 3 months ago
@benjamin387967 I completely hear you and understand what you are saying. I understood that you didn't see eye to eye with us on this topic from your very first post on here. And as I mentioned earlier, for a full treatment on this topic there is a bible study link underneath the video for you or anyone else to consider. Prayerfully consider that study and let us know what you think afterwards.
sleanos 3 months ago
@sleanos No thank you I don't except your theory on this subj, there would b no point to watching your vid.. I always pray.
benjamin387967 3 months ago
@benjamin387967 The link isn't to a video. It's an actual bible study that you can print, and thoroughly go through all the evidence on why we believe this. I have NO clue why you would even post anything on my personal youtube page if you did not want to invite a reasonable/rational discussion on the matter. Seems to me you just want to shove your views on others by commenting here. I've given you something more meatier to consider and you reject it before looking at it. Very open minded.
sleanos 3 months ago
@daddyogrande You have that mixed up a bit. That was an angel but it wasn't "Michael" who was speaking to John in the book of revelation.
sleanos 7 months ago
What about Thessalonians 4:16?
1 Thessalonians 4:16, “because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet.”
If you say that He is an archangel because He came with and archangel’s voice, the by the same logic, He must also be God because he came with God’s trumpet.
JLeeHaven 7 months ago
@JLeeHaven No argument there. Jesus is God in the fullest sense of the word. Michael is simply another reference to the Son of God and His role in the plan of salvation. People get tied up when they insist Michael is just a head angel or a "created being" and not as we see it, a symbolic title representing Jesus pre-incarnation.
sleanos 7 months ago
@JLeeHaven Having Gods trumpet does not mean you are the almighty God. Michael is the most powerful angel, a king, someone who will protect his people. These are the same charactistics of Jesus.
warriorprince1010 6 months ago
believe THE BIBLE. At Revelation 12:7-an angel named Michael and his angels battled with Satan and his angels and hurled them to the earth. At Revelation 20:1-an angel coming down out of heaven with the key of the abyss. Daniel 10:13,21-Michael is one of the foremost princes,vs.21 Michael is the prince of YOU people12:1-great prince(Isaiah 9:6-Jesus is Prince of Peace).Jude 9-Michael is archangel.Hebrews 1:4-He has become better than the angels.Michael destroys Satan-Rev.20:10
eternityandforever 7 months ago
This all sounds like Dragon Ball Z to me
immortalchild16 8 months ago
@immortalchild16 Hope so.. cuz Dragonball Z got it's stuff from things like religion/philosophy/legend & myth & imagination.
sleanos 8 months ago 11
the father and I are one. John 10:30. God is not an archangel. he is the creator of all beings. visible and unseen. If Jesus claims that the father and him are one therefore, Jesus is God and the creator of everything. aside from that he claim in book of revelation that he is the alpha and the omega. there is no greater than that claim. the alpha has no beginning and that what's make him a God. not an angel. :-)
archgabriel27 9 months ago
@archgabriel27 Agreed. Jesus is God in every sense of the word (the eternal Son of God), creator of everything and is NOT an angelic created being. Now prove to us that Michael the Archangel is just another "created angelic being" and not another symbolic reference/title for the Prince of Peace, the Bread of Life, The Captain of the Heavenly Hosts, Jesus Christ Himself.
sleanos 9 months ago
@archgabriel27
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
King James Version (KJV) 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Plain and clear -(The Lord will come down with a shout with the voice of the archangel) WHO IS SHOUTING HERE The lord or the archangel? And the dead will rise up from the dead, will an angel raise the dead or will God?
GallantMind 8 months ago
@archgabriel27
Jesus is NOT an angel, but Jesus is the Archangel Michael.
Monarch = One ruler --- Archangel = Angel ruler.. Who rules over the angels?
Joshua worshiped the angel of the lord or the archangel Michael but how is that possible if only God can be worshiped?
When John tried to bow down to an regular angel the angel said don't do it to me for I am only a messenger like you.
What is the difference in this case?
GallantMind 8 months ago
@archgabriel27 You are correct; the underlining statement that declares who Micheal is; in Jude it speaks of how satan and the micheal argued over mosses dead body. There it can be seen that Micheal has authority but clearly can be disputed. I challenge anyone to show me where satan challanges God. No he challanges us humans. Eve, Job. Gensis shows god says to the serpent that he will be cursed. Satan can'targue with God/Jesus only can he argue with His creations. Which is how he learns/matures
ghfjtuflhg 5 months ago
@ghfjtuflhg Non sense. So the devil can TEMPT Jesus directly, but cannot argue with Him? There is no maturation with Satan biblically speaking. Scripture makes it clear his ways do not and have not changed since his fall from the heavenly courts and so his death is sealed when he tempted the Jews/Romans to put Jesus to death.
sleanos 4 months ago
@clawson4635 No not directly. But it's well understood in Jewish culture that God resurrected Moses. If Jesus is the resurrection and the life then it was Jesus that resurrected Moses. And there is enough evidence to consider that Michael and Jesus are one in the same, hence Moses was resurrected by Michael.
sleanos 10 months ago
@sleanos Would I be correct in assuming you do not accept the Bible as the complete Word of God and you believe it is ok to refer to Jewish cultural beliefs as Bible facts?
clawson4635 10 months ago
@clawson4635 Nope sorry you would be wrong in assuming that. The Bible is complete and shows us the way to God through Jesus Christ. But there is no mistaking that God DID in fact resurrect Moses. Did He not? I'll say it again though. God = Jesus, so Jesus resurrected Moses. And there is enough evidence in the Bible alone to suggest that Michael and Jesus are one in the same. Hence, "Michael" resurrected Moses.
sleanos 10 months ago
@sleanos You stated (But there is no mistaking that God DID in fact resurrect Moses.). Where can I find the resurrection of Moses in the Bible? I cannot find any scripture to validate this resurrection.
clawson4635 10 months ago
@clawson4635 Did Moses die in the Old Testament? Yes he did. Was Moses speaking to Jesus with Elijah in the New Testament. Yes he was. How could Moses speak to Jesus if Moses was not resurrected? See LUKE 9:28-36
sleanos 10 months ago
@sleanos. They were in spirit form because they will not receive their resurrection body until the appointed time of reward. To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. We have angels around us but we do not see them because our eyes are not open. Elisha’s servant could not see until God opened his eyes. We can see if God allows it. Just as Moses and Elijah were seen. Was Elijah also ressurected ?
clawson4635 10 months ago
@clawson4635 Nope. Elijah was translated to heaven without seeing death. So when Elijah came to see Jesus he was in bodily form, not some ghostly spirit thing. Moses likewise was in bodily form. When Jesus was resurrected and then came back to see the disciples, did He or did He not have bodily form that could be touched despite also being able to come/go as He pleased. The Angels as well are around us, but also have bodily form that can be seen/touched when the Lord allows it.
sleanos 10 months ago
@sleanos You stated (Elijah was translated to heaven without seeing death. So whenElijah came to see Jesus he was in bodily form, not some ghostly spirit thing.) The Bible says Elijah could not have gone to heaven in his natural body. 1Co 15:50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
clawson4635 10 months ago
@clawson4635 The scripture is correct , flesh and blood CANNOT inherit the kingdom of God, that is not without being born of the Spirit. There is no argument nor contradiction from my viewpoint here or with what I said earlier. I think you're making the scripture say more than what it really is.
sleanos 10 months ago
@sleanos Jesus is the only one that has been raised in a glorified body. There is no scripture about Moses resurrection. Elijah was taken in a whirlwind but could not enter heaven in his natural earthly body. Moses and Elijah will not receive their glorified bodies until the appointed time when Jesus returns for his people. These are the Bible facts we have that cannot be refuted. Now can you explain to me based on these facts how they were seen on the mount of transfiguration.
clawson4635 10 months ago
@clawson4635 Where did all those people that the Lord resurrected when He rose again go? Answer: they were the first fruits, typified by one of the feast days of the Old Testament unto the Lord. There are many saints up in heaven with their glorified bodies since they could not be there in their own previous sinful bodies. They are all exceptions & examples to illustrate what will occur at the 2nd coming. Just because YOU say something is a bible fact, doesn't make it so friend. That's dogma.
sleanos 10 months ago 2
@sleanos Definition of DOGMA: something held as an established opinion; especially: a definite authoritative tenet. I don't give opinions I give facts as established by Bible scholars. You did not answer my earlier question. You asked me a question instead. That’s a good tactic when you don't have an answer. The answer to your question is after they were resurrected they went into Jerusalem.
clawson4635 10 months ago
@clawson4635 No offense, but I'll say it again. What you stated is your Dogma because I can quote you from numerous other Bible scholars as well. But that will get us nowhere. I asked you a question instead of answering your question... why? Because I've answered numerous statements already and am trying to get you to think. There is nothing wrong with my approach either. The Lord Himself used this approach on others to get them to think. He is our example in all things.
sleanos 10 months ago 5
@clawson4635 Bible reveals all sorts of exceptions to reveal spiritual truths to us. Moses & Elijah for example represent the Law and the Prophets, but also two classes of people near the end times, those who will die and be resurrected and those who will not see death and be translated to heaven.
sleanos 10 months ago
wow. what the guy said totally made sense one of Jesus' identities is Michael the Archangel. true stuff.
SDAboy21 11 months ago 2
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johnwinofficial 11 months ago
@johnwinofficial That's right. Last I checked we have that freedom or are you of the mindset that you can just grafiti and say what ever you want whenever you want WHERE EVER you want? And I would let your comments go through if you had something more intelligent and respectful to say that just "bunch of bull". You have a God given mind and mouth, use it.
sleanos 11 months ago
Jesus is Michael...amen!
1978dagreat 1 year ago
Since all the religions that spawned from Abraham are based on Zoroastrianism to some extent or another, wouldn't it be important to look at where he (ol'Abe) got his spirituality from? 'Cause I'm sure there's an older parallel that came out of Mesopotamia. Anyways, maybe that'll be a jumping off point for someone else to weight in. Ciao.
MrWarProfiteer 1 year ago
@MrWarProfiteer Your assumption that the Abrahamic religions are based on or derived from Zoroastrianism is unfounded and lacking in historical evidence.
sleanos 1 year ago
Wrong, wrong, Michae is not Jesus and Jesus is not Michael.
tobysoter 1 year ago
@tobysoter Listen. You are FREE to your own opinions of course, but you need to consider the biblical evidence objectively. Say Michael is not Jesus or vice versa doesn't make it so of course.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos do Jesus have a God?
clevelandshero23 1 year ago
@clevelandshero23 Jesus IS God, so is His Father, so is the Holy Spirit. 3 yet they are one in divinity, character, & purpose. Think of it like this. Time is made up of past, present and future. You need all three to have time. Or Space = height, length, width. God is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. This is what scripture teaches and probably the best any mortal man can explain the triune God.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos their is only one Almighty God and that is Jehovah he is not 3 in 1
clevelandshero23 1 year ago
@clevelandshero23 I don't think you understand. The 3 in 1 notion is the Catholic trinity error. The Biblical Godhead is that there are 3 beings in heaven united in love, purpose, character and Divinity all equally God. God is One in Unity, I don't believe the scriptures teach that God is 1 numerically. Read the scriptures and then look at all the object lessons in the Bible starting with marriage for example. Man + Woman = 1 flesh, yet 2 individuals. The church is to operate as One, etc, etc.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos oh ok so you believe in 3 Gods but the bible do not indicate that Jesus is equal to God actually Jesus him self says that the father is greater than him
clevelandshero23 1 year ago
@clevelandshero23 The bible also teaches that Jesus was with God and was God. Not only that but then the Father Himself exalts Jesus' name above every other name (every means every including His own). Father, Son and Holy Spirit are still equal in divinity despite the specific roles they play in salvation.
sleanos 1 year ago 2
@sleanos can you answer my question please do Jesus have a God?
clevelandshero23 1 year ago
@clevelandshero23 I already did. Jesus IS God and so is His Father and so is the Holy Spirit. Like light made up of 3 groups, 1 cannot bee seen nor felt, the other can be seen, and the other can be felt as heat, yet all 3 are light and without 1 of them light cannot exist.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos how are they equal if Jesus has a God witch is Jehovah the father?
clevelandshero23 1 year ago
@clevelandshero23 How is a husband and wife equal in the eyes of God yet they are different.
Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
sleanos 1 year ago 2
@clevelandshero23 I think you are wanting me to answer a particular that I believe is contrary to the scriptures. Are you a Jehovah WItness or Oneness Pentacostal or something?
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos Jehovah Witness
clevelandshero23 1 year ago
@clevelandshero23 Ah I understand now. Thank you for being honest.
sleanos 1 year ago 2
Oooh... gettin my popcorn... christian's fighting!!! woohoo
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd No fighting, but openly and honestly discussing what the Bible teaches as the Bible says we should (which is just good common sense anyhow). So much for th atheist who says we just have blind faith and check our minds out for the season.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos but you do have blind faith.... your denominations may not agree on all parts of the interpretations, but you certainly all share blind faith... using the bible to prove stories from the bible is circular reasoning.
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd What you stated is a straw man argument and just evidence of your ignorance on the matter. You drank the koolaid friend. Faith by definition is believing in someone or something because of evidence. They have proven themselves to you &so you can trust and believe in them. For the Christian it is like that with God. We just happen to disagree on the subtler points. Evidence to have faith in God &Bible comes from history, archaeology, prophecy, medical science and even science.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos But the strongest evidence to believe in God is putting the promises of God found in the Bible to the test for yourself. We don't use the bible to prove the bible. It simply states it is what it is. You have to dig in a littler deeper.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos you don't use the bible to prove the bible??? Yet you have to dig in deeper... come on... really? You don't use biblical prophecy to prove the bible is true? I think you are being a little dishonest there.
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd And I think your comments are a bit ignorant and arrogant. IF i used the bible to prove that bible true and that's all THEN that would be circular reasoning. But what I'm telling you is that the bible gives evidence to consider for its truthfulness, and history/archaeology confirm this. In the mouths of 2 or more witnesses let everything be established. How do YOU explain the bible predicting exactly the rise of Rome and the dark age period reign?
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos I'm being arrogant and ignorant? I'm not the one making the claim of the one true god... you are. that's pretty arrogant and ignorant...
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd Yes you are because here is the difference. You are stating things as factual, I am simply sharing my belief in my faith and not imposing it on others. You came onto MY personal youtube page to try and tell me I'm wrong, my faith is wrong and that there is no God or at least its not the one in the Bible. As if making a statement like that on a youtube comment box was going to accomplish anything. That would be like me knocking on YOUR door and telling you have to believe in our God.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos Please tell me where the bible predicts the rise of Rome, and the dark ages specifically... tell me how I couldn't possibly interpret it any other way... the predictions as far as I can tell are no better at predicting things than a horoscope.
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd I've given you the website to study it out otherwise keep viewing the videos on my youtube page. "prophecies = horoscope" I'm sorry but that is a very ignorant statement and proves to me that you have NOT even remotely studies the numerous timeline prophecies found in the books of Daniel and Revelation amongst other. I've given you an Excellent site that will give you evidence to study bibleuniverse(dot)c.om the prophecy course - check it out.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos Ok... so without using the bible... prove god... then prove your god particularly...
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd Sorry can't do that. That's like me asking you to prove you love your spouse only don't use your spouse as evidence. We use history/archaeology, etc to see and prove if what the bible teaches is true or not. That is being fair and objective about the evidence.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos Yes you can't prove god without the bible... at least you are honest... proving my love for my wife/gf, is comparatively easy.
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd And proving that God can change human hearts and His promises in the bible are true and sure is easy for me, but it's subjective and clearly not something you would consider. Do you really believe this whole universe just created itself in the Big Bang or similar theory? Isn't it more logical to believe that anything that was created had a creator? God of the Bible claims to be self-existent eternally who created everything in the beginning. faith statement I know.
sleanos 1 year ago
@chyrd Check out Robert Gentries documentaries sometime "The Young Age of the Earth" & "Fingerprints of Creation". check out his bio, etc. Have an open mind, listen to the evidence he presents and then go from there where ever that may lead you.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos Oh please show me the straw man??? the very definition of faith is firm belief in something for which there is no proof!!! Look it up... it's in Mirriams... I've already said that you disagree on the subtle and not so subtle... You know as well as I do, that most christians think they have it right and the others have it wrong... but please... indulge me... where is my straw man?
chyrd 1 year ago
don't tell me about prophecy, medical science and "science".. if god wanted to do us all a favor, he would have told us to wash our hands before eating... He would have also told us that slavery was bad, and NOT to rape children... he didn't do those either. Faith comes strictly from indoctrination at a young age!!! Give me the child at 7 and I will give you the man... know why the Jesuits said that? because they knew if you scared someone at an early age, it's hard to deprogram them.
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd Prophecy - why not? It has very convincing TIME/DATE prophecies in it that even explain then entire period of the Dark Ages and Roman supremacy. Even if you dismiss Old Testament prophecy..it's VERY hard to simply dismiss or ignore the NT prophecies. They are not vague or generic in terms like reading a horoscope. Only someone who hasn't seriously studied that would say that because even skeptics say yes they are accurate and true but still dismiss it for various reasons.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos it is very easy to dismiss the prophecies... they are very vague, and given the hiistoricity of the events vs. when they were written about, they are dubious at best.
I bet you can't name one skeptic who says they are accurate and true...
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd You see that's what I'm talking about. You obviously have not studied the prophecies because they are not vague at all. They give LOTS of indicators of the main players in the history with exact dates and time frames to tie them all together. Ex, bible predicted the exact reign of the papacy and the dark ages for more than 1200 years which is why protestantism came about and the papacy did all they could to keep the bible out away from the common people.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos and again, did I not say that I wouldn't get into prophecy? yet you are parading it around as if it actually holds water. Do you know that Muslims say the same about the Qu'ran? Are there prophecies not true? Why don't you believe there book?
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd You won't get into prophecy and so you dismiss some of the most convincing evidence that the Bible is true and accurate. From my viewpoint, if the Bible did not have such convincing prophetic timelines and descriptors I would have dismissed it as just another religious book with some good teachings in it no different than any other religious book. So we must depart ways since you ask for evidence and will not consider this.
sleanos 1 year ago
@chyrd I've studied what Muslims say about the Qu'ran. Stop with the generalities and get into the specifics, the details and you'l find there is a DRASTIC difference between prophecy in the Qu'ran and prophecy in the Bible. The Qu'rans prophecies really are like horoscopes in that they can be adopted and related generally. The bible's prophecies are VERY specific tied to timelines that only fit in certain period of history.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos you state that I have not studied... and I can state the same about you... what do you know about the arguments against your faith... I don't think you know any at all
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd Are you kidding me. Let's see for starters go to any Christian apologetics site/book that deals with ALL the objections against the faith. Then go to sites/books and speakers like Hitchens, Dawkins, the Atheist Bible online, and talkorigins(dot)org. the List is endless but I've investigated the majority of the claims against they faith and find them either unconvincing, lacking evidence, subject to presuppositions and even some just flat out lies and/or opinions. So I am now a Christian.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos
May GOD bless you
hannahr77 1 year ago
@hannahr77 Thank you. And no offense, but your last comment was rather insulting. Understand that we don't believe Michael is an actual "created being or angel" but rather just another TITLE for Christ preincarnate. Jesus is fully God, the God/Man, the Creator, the Son of God, full Deity. BIG difference than what cults who deny the divinity of Christ believe, even if you disagree with us. The scriptures speak for themselves and give plenty of evidence to consider.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos so give me chapter and verse of the specific prophecies that you are talking about and we can discuss those in detail, instead of just trying to bully me around by stating I don't know what I'm talking about... if you want to have a conversation I'm all for it... but don't just sit there making assumptions... show me what you are talking about and we will discuss them... Don't brush me off telling me to just go take some bible study program. You might be surprised with what I do know
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd I can give you the answer but what good would that do since you don't believe the foundation for why these things are accurate or how they should be interepreted. None the less I'll do you one better. Here's a chart with verses & timelines. Review and get back to me: bit(DOT)ly/bZACCw
sleanos 1 year ago
@chyrd Famous author/writer C.S.Lewis was a hardcore atheist and skeptic before his conversion. Read his bio some time. You asked for one so there is one. You want more?
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos You talk about logical fallacies, then you bring up that C.S. Lewis was a hardcore atheist... as if that isn't an appeal to authority... LOL... come on.... you can do better than that... Kirk Cameron says he was an atheist as well... where is the proof?
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd See there is no right answer for you. I wasn't giving this as proof of anything. You simply said that I couldn't name not one skeptic who said the prophecies were true. I did and all you did was turn the your question around and try and hit me with the logical fallacy of appeal to authority (which I was not doing) but you did a similar thing when you gave sam harris, hitchens, etc as evidences for why you are not a christian. Regardless. I still think you are being arrogant & pompous now
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos the only people that I've seen dismiss facts are theists... in spite of empirical evidence, they choose to dismiss it because it doesn't jive with their book... Look at the excuse christian's give for dinosaur bones... "the devil planted them there to make the earth look older" LOL... come on...
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd Your statement here indicates to me that you perhaps haven't fully investigated all of the statements/evidences. I think the answer you just stated from some Christians is absurd as well. Nice try though trying to use that argument here as if I believed that. You should ask what I believe instead of using any old argument against me.
sleanos 1 year ago
@chyrd "Faith comes from indoctrination at a young age!!" - says who? I didn't grow up in the church and spent at least a few years seriously studying the evidences for the Bible and Christianity along with other religions in my adulthood before being faced with a decision to accept or reject the overwhelming convincing evidence for the Bible and Christian faith from a particular denomination persuasion. History tells us of MANY intelligent people accepting the faith as adults also.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos I'm not saying that there haven't been conversions late in life... a personal friend of mine went from being a jew to being a methodist. but you can't deny that the majority of believers, were in fact indoctrinated at an early age...you keep saying overwhelming evidence... but I've looked for evidence... and have not found it... do share
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd I agree... indoctrination happens at an early age for MANY things in life, not just religion. Your bias against religion -Christianity in particular is your right and opinion to hold of course, doesn't make it wrong for the rest of us. Since you asked for evidence, please take the free prophecy course at bibleuniverse(dot)com sometime. It's 24 studies with video but well worth considering. That's just for starters...
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos I will... and you should read god is not great, and a letter to a christian nation, and Breaking the spell, as well as the blind watchmaker.
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd I've read both in fact When I read for example a Letter to a christian nation, I marked up practically the whole book with notes because much of what Sam Harris writes I believe is in error. I'll have to dig my copy out sometime. If you have skype I'd be happy to show it to you as well and discuss via video 1on1. let me know
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos did I ever say that your belief is wrong?
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd Um yes in so many words. You claim there is no evidence at all to consider in favor of Christianity and there by it is not true or wrong.
sleanos 1 year ago
@chyrd The Jesuits are a part of the Roman church you would be VERY surprised at everything the Bible has to say about that religious body as a whole. Why do you think the dark ages happened and they tried to keep the BIble out of the common people's hands.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos I'm not surprised by anything in the bible... what I am continually surprised about is the amount of christian sects... each saying they have it correct and the other's don't... believe me, I know the hang up with the catholic church... but the protestants these days aren't much better... mega churches popping up all over the place... they are just as bad!!!
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd Agreed- and if you would study bible prophecy, you would know the bible addresses all of that too. The role of the papacy and protestantism is discussed in prophecy along with why there are so many denominations when Jesus prayed that His followers would all be one.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos so if jesus prayed (which is silly if you think about his divinity), that all his followers be one... which one of you are correct? the gospels couldn't even agree
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd That's your opinion of course. I disagree. The gospels harmonize perfectly and if you study bible prophecy God will guide you to His true remnant church. (This isn't arrogant or saying that many other Christians from other groups will be lost or saved) Just stating that God makes it clear on what true Christianity will be like. But since you will not study prophecy as you mentioned before, no sense in me telling you anymore.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos I will give you this... I usually get quite upset about someone who censors their comments... at least you have the courage of your convictions... I commend you
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd I do because that's is how solid faith in the Word of God can be when studied seriously instead of simply dismissing everything or taking a superficial stance against it.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos I can assure you that I didn't take a cursory glance at religion at all... I asked a lot of questions and didn't like the answers... "you must just have faith"... I'm sorry that's not an answer... I was raised religious... and did a lot of studying on my own afterwards... do not doubt that I didn't take it seriously!!! As for dismissing god... no... I didn't do that... I looked for him everywhere
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd You are correct an answer like "you must just have faith" is no answer at all and NOT the approach Jesus used with His followers as the Bible teaches. Study the life of Christ to see HOW and what He used to convince His followers about Himself. check out the free prophecy course sometime on bibleuniverse(dot)com. The evidence makes perfect sense as presented. I can't say that same thing for other denominations of Christianity. Do you have an open mind to be objective about the info?
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos Do you honestly believe that someone that was raised in a religious home and later became an atheist doesn't have an open mind? Seems to me that most theists believe that being an atheist means you know unequivocally that god doesn't exist... I think you would find that most atheists, are open to new information, and if that information led us to god... so be it... I've looked at a lot of evidence, and concluded god doesn't exist, if you have something new, bring it on.
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd Some do and some don't. I would say the same thing about some theists as well. Just a fact of life. Atheist def. Semantics - pick a definition of the word because some say atheists are people who say there is no God, others would say they are people who do not believe in God.or that there is one. There is an excellent course at bibleuniverse(dot)com that when you go through and complete I'm positive it will spur on new avenues in the faith you may not have investigated before.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos I know you don't like looking up definitions in the dictionary (faith), but the term means a - or without, theism - god, or diety. in the strictest sense of the term it means a lack of believe in a god. You didn't answer my question... do you honestly believe that I haven't done my research? Because I'm getting a little tired of your patronizing tone.
chyrd 1 year ago
@chyrd Look I don't care if you have done your research or not (and I don't know). All I'm saying is that you come to MY youtube page to tell me I'm wrong about a lot of stuff you don't believe in or have not fully studied. I've shared with you some things and have given you resources to check out from MY perspective. It's up to you whether or not you want to check it out or not...otherwise please leave my youtube page. Noone is twisting your arm here to stay and continue this conversation.
sleanos 1 year ago
please read 1 thes 4: 16. The meaning of hebrew word angel means messenger. Also Mal 3:1 where Jesus is called as messenger or Angel or Arch Angel. He is the cheif messenger for the God head. In old testament an Angel appears and addresses Himself as Jehovah can't you identify that friend.
thirdelijah 1 year ago
The human need to be right is very powerful. It motivates much and many.
movadoband 1 year ago
It doesn't say Michael "ressurected Moses" it says he dared not dispute with the devil for the "body" of Moses. It also does not say the one that appeared to Michael was an "archangel". We are going to need some intellectual honesty here if we are going to find truth.
mephibosheth 1 year ago
@mephibosheth Who alone can resurrect anyone? It is Jesus. Was Moses resurrected? Yes apparently so because He appears to Jesus along side Elijah. Nowhere in scripture does it ever say that Moses was resurrected, but we do have the passage in Jude 1:9 that speaks of Michael disputing about the body of Moses with the devil. And because we beleive there is enough evidence that Michael is Jesus, hence Michael/Jesus resurrected Moses. Enough honesty?
sleanos 1 year ago
@mephibosheth
Sorry to say meph, but your so called "intellectual honesty" is nothing more than "intellectual perversion", and devoid of sound logical reason and deduction. The evidence that Michael is Christ is overwhelming. It is Jesus who will stand up for His people in the Time of Trouble, hence Michael will "stand up" in Daniel 12. However, Jesus is still Divine, not created. This is the difference between Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses.
Lysimachus78 1 year ago
@celioabatti Similar to the way we call the president's wife, the first lady. A title to indicate her position.
sleanos 1 year ago
@celioabatti Go back to the Hebrew friend, many theologians feel the English passage on this (one of the chief princes) was a poor translation. It should have been translated the "first of". And we already know "Michael" means one who is like God. Well there is NO created being who is like God, so it is a reference to the Son of God Himself. the first and the last.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos i'm pretty sure the name michael means "Who is Like God?" which is a rhetoricle question showing how great God is and that no one is like him
MichaelTheArchAsia 1 year ago
@MichaelTheArchAsia I hear ya but on what basis do you make it a question? It isn't based on language constructs. It is meant to be a statement, just like all the Hebrew names and their meanings. You're playing semantics.
sleanos 1 year ago
@celioabatti Your response here clearly lets me know that you dit d not in fact read the study available below the video, because if you did you have had to acknowledge that we believe the interpretation there of Michael in Dan 10 is in fact better translated as the first chief prince and not simply 1 of many, especially since Michael is the ONLY archangel ever mentioned in the Bible and ALWAYS in the singular.
sleanos 1 year ago
Is Michael, Jesus Christ?
Yes, according to Ellen G. White, the Seventh-day Adventist's prophet, and also taught by the Jehovah's Witnesses. Evangelical Christianity has rejected the teaching that Michael is Christ, because it is not biblical. It may surprise you to learn that there are only five references in the entire Bible to Michael, and not one reference names Michael as Jesus Chris
celioabatti 1 year ago 2
@celioabatti It may surprise you to realize that what you are saying is only PARTIALLY true which makes me question your honesty in general. You have failed to point out that Seventh-day Adventists do NOT agree with Jehovah's witnesses stance that Jesus/Michael is a created being. Again, from our study of scripture we believe Michael is ANOTHER TITLE for Jesus, not that Jesus is a created anything, Jesus IS the Creator Himself. I'll ask again, have you read the study available at bottom of vid?
sleanos 1 year ago
celioabatti 1 year ago
@celioabatti This video does not disagree with the notion the Jesus is the Son of God, God in the flesh. Do you have a point to make?
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos Jesus is NOT an ANGEL, that is simply my point :)
celioabatti 1 year ago
@celioabatti Good then we and the video above are in complete agreement. Jesus is not a created angelic being. That doesn't change the fact though that Michael the archangel is a title used to describe Jesus before His birth in Bethlehem. I think much of the Christian world misunderstands who and what Michael actually is.
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos Hbr 1:5For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
Hbr 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
Hbr 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.
celioabatti 1 year ago
@celioabatti I don't think you understand friend. We believe the way and manner in which "Michael the Archangel" is used is in reference to Jesus, another title or symbol of Christ. Not that Jesus is a created being or an angel. However scripture over and over refers to Him as The Angel of the Lord numerous times, or the Prince of Heaven, the Father Himself and yes as Michael as well. Have you studied the link at the bottom of the video on the manner to understand from our perspective?
sleanos 1 year ago
@sleanos After 20 years of studying the BIBLE there is no doubt that JESUS is The Alpha & OMEGA The Almighty. Also The Son of GOD. Definetelly not some angel Remember in the book of DANIEL when Michael was fighting over moses body and michael said the LORD REBUKE YOU , Obviously that was not the JESUS from Luke cahpter 4 that confronted and rebuked the DEVIL IN PERSON.
celioabatti 1 year ago
@celioabatti No doubt that Jesus is both alpha & omega the Almighty, & the Son of God. However I'll say it again, we don't agree with you that Michael is just some reference to a high ranking created angelic being, but rather a symbolic title of Christ pre-incarnate. Ur third party example is of no effect because Christ in the NT often refers to Himself in the third person: Mk 8:38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man shall be ashamed of him at the day of judgment.
sleanos 1 year ago
@celioabatti Many Christians "use" scripture to try and prove their points often ignoring much biblical evidence in favor of just 1 or 2 scriptures.
sleanos 1 year ago
Many people seem to be repulsed that Jesus could ever be referred to as an angel. But the does exactly this. "and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts." (Mal 3:1) The word "messenger" is the Hebrew word "mal'ak", and is the same word used in the OT for "angel".
Victoruto 1 year ago
Finally truth is being spoken about Christ is the videos.
When Christ comes back with the shout of the arch angel, and the dead in Christ will be raised. Only Christ can raise the dead.
kobidobidog 1 year ago
ALLELUYA!!!!!!! GLORY TO GOD OUR FATHER AND JESUS CHRIST HIS SON!!!! FOR THEY HAVE SHOWN MORE PEOPLE ABOUT WHO THE SON OF GOD IS!!! OF COURSE JESUS AND MICHAEL ARE THE SAME PERSON. GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!!!
domon777 1 year ago
"micheal is never called an angel in the bible hes called an arch angel", LOL what. isnt an archangel a higher ranking angel. at least thats my understanding. the problem i think is that its heavily doctrined in their teachings that this preacher has to accept but he has to come up with an excuse of some kind, cuz if an arch angel isnt an angel then shoot me dead and call me stuped.
shipkleo 1 year ago
@shipkleo arch means chief or principal & angel sometimes simply means messenger as king David & others are referred to as angels as well even though they are not. Michael is only referred to in highly prophetic / symbolic books and is a reference/ pointer to Jesus preincarnate and His work prior to His virgin birth. He is the Chief Messenger come down from heaven to us.
sleanos 1 year ago
god is a lie have fun wasting your life on the straight and narrow only to have nothing after this life
preceski412 1 year ago
@preceski412 *sigh* I once thought as you did... thank God He came into my life and opened my eyes to His magnificence and Glory revealed in Jesus. Thank God I am now truly living and experiencing life! His ways really are best. Everyone has the choice to find that out for themselves though...
sleanos 1 year ago
@preceski412 Ever read Pascal's wager? How about Dirty Harry's 44 magnum? ... do you feel lucky? Well do ya...
pneuma77atCharter 1 year ago