Note: The first three sources are available online, through a simple google search. Unfortunately, Youtube doesn't seem to allow me to post the URLs, but I encourage anyone who was read my comments below to check the sources themselves, Richard Carrier's essay alone takes on and shows the fatal flaws in every attempt to reconcile the contradiction regarding Quirinius.
Again, we should examine these issues carefully, in order to make sure we are not promoting falsehoods to justify our beliefs.
Now, I'll close by saying I sincerely hope that Strobel merely does not know that the Vardaman coin is a hoax, and is not willfully lying. We should excercise caution to ensure we are not promoting hoaxes.
Sources:
The Date of the Nativity in Luke, by Richard Carrier
The Census of Quirinius and the Birth of Jesus of Nazareth, by James McGrath
Finally, the governors of Syria during the lifetime of Herod are known, and there is nowhere for Quirinius to fit in until after Herod's death. This is especially clear from the records of Quirinius' own career. During Herod's reign, he was serving in other places and other offices in the Roman Empire, he was not in Syria. It is simply untrue that Luke was right and the archaeologists were wrong. We must acknowledge this contradiction, and not fall for hoaxes like Vardaman's. (sources next post)
@Telamon28 "Finally, the governors of Syria during the lifetime of Herod are known, and there is nowhere for Quirinius to fit in until after Herod's death."
Well, the pat response I got to that one is that Herod's death was not in 4 BCE but a few years after that, i.e, 4 - 1 BCE. It's a lame attempt to make Herod's reign coincide with Quirinius' tenure in Syria.
In addition, even if the micrographic letters had been real, there is telling evidence that they could not have come from the time of Quirinius or Herod, judging by Vardaman's sketches of the coin. In his drawings of the micrographic letters, Vardaman included the letter J in words such as "Jesus." The letter J was not invented in the time of the Romans, instead they used the letter I. This is a basic mistake that any skilled archaeologist would not make. (continued in next comment, w/sources).
Historian Richard Carrier was eventually able to track down and examine the coin Vardaman found under a microscope. No micrographic letters were found. In fact, a comparison of the actual coin with Vardaman's drawings revealed that Vardaman invented many details that weren't on the coin itself, other than these imaginary micrographic letters. (continued in next comment, sources at the end).
In my reading of the Case For Christ, I found the Vardaman coin to be the most disappointing and revealing "proof" cited by Strobel. In regards to the coin, Strobel has either been misinformed or is lying outright. Vardaman claimed to find the coin, however he did not present any evidence of the coin for peer review, only drawings of the coin and alleged microletters. (continued in next comment, as I don't have enough characters).
@Franknarfable And some don't so that leaves it some what untrust worthy doesn't it the bible is a massive confussion because of its fictional and nonfictional material you have to cherry pick it to make any sense from it and thats exactly what they do. I would say that some of the latter gosbels actually get the locations wrong and make obvious error when they plagerized off of earler gosbels. When you only focas on actually discovered locations and ignore the error it sounds convincing i know.
@wachnathan - Basically the New Testament is fictional history. Jesus and Paul (the main characters) are completely fictional.
The New Testament was written under the reign of the Flavian Trinity. Vespasian (the father), Titus (the good son) and Domitian. They destroyed Jerusalem and defeated the Jews. They created the Messiah, the Christ that never came.
It's clear to me. The writers where good historians, but the Romans had the best education by miles.
@falloutseriesftw Well hammers exist does that make Thor real? no it just means we associated him with a hammer and thats exactly what am talking about kinda funny how you have so much in the bible that leads you to believe that god actually interacts with humans and the world but yet no person outside of the bible has ever reported such things this stuff is obviously propaganda to deceive people thats my point.
@wachnathan How do you explain all the near death experiences, supernatural (spiritual and ghostly) encounters, and how Israel exists today if God doesnt exist. If he didnt, when the sea that was opened for the Israselites to cross thru never would have opened up and Moses and the rest of God's people would have been renslaved directly before that, meaning Israel wouldnt exist today. So think about these, you know, things you almighty science cant prove (supernatural things).
@falloutseriesftw I agree there is some mystery behind it yes but you then also have to acknowledge peoples past life experiences as well which contradicts christianity so to me there is a broader picture that we don't understand the bible is just a collection of ideas mostly fabracated but some of it does touch on truth. My understanding of christianity and why it is true is because of how the bible was put together and edited over time there is way to much human ego put in to it.
I also want to point out that i have a list of failed prophecies that proves Jesus wasn't who he said he was but you christians choose to ignore such things.Isaiah 52:1 “Awake, awake, O Zion, clothe yourself with strength. Put on your garments of splendor, O Jerusalem, the holy city. The uncircumcised and defiled will not enter you again.”
FAIL: There are still uncircumcised people living in Jerusalem even today.
This is just one example that really seems very illogical to me but anyways!
@wachnathan Isaiah was speakiing not of Jerusalem, but of spiritual Zion. Circumcision is not of the flesh, but of the heart! Jesus came and we no longer need an outward sign, but an inward sign. The Pharasees from the time of Christ were circumcized in the flesh, but their heart was far from God.
@elinikk Forgive me but i can't make sense out of that when its clearly stated in the bible?Thats just one example and that should be enough. I have many failed prophecies that chrisitans just ignore am just saying this is a sign of ignorance that people will always make exuse to keep there faith alive knowing there is issues this is unlogical, unrational thinking for modern people. My point is stop making exuses for something that is clearly wrong a rational mind acknowledges this.
For a prophesy try Rev. 8:10-11. In Russian "wormwood" is Chernobyl. And in 1986 there was a nuclear meltdown at Chernobyl (a great star fell) making this area of the world inhabitable and the waters "bitter".
I would like to discuss a possible explaination am not claiming its true but it could be, what if we are just living from body to body and our brain dies and we loose memory the next rebirth? how could you dispute that when people have past life experiences am just saying there is other explainations that are plasauble that contradicts christians heavan and hell theory? Am with you on one point i don't think we actually die its our bodies that die really whats beyond that is still debatable.
he ends his case saying that it requires more faith to be atheist then it does Christine but the thing is he takes the bible to be evidence which can be easily argued a fictional piece of work. Also the idea that one faith is more likely then another faith is impossible since they are both beliefs made from scratch. You can prove nor disprove a religious belief you can only admit the truth which is i dont know.
@flaminfireboy Have you tried the excellent book, ' The case against the case for Christ' by Robert M Price which is his reply to Strobel ? Which is more likely 1 That Bible authors, like any playwrights,guessed & wrote words into the mouths of 'God', 'Satan' & co or 2 That they got an actual text message from the gods? People in ancient times thought dreams were like video conferencing. See archaeologist Israel Finkelstein who thinks much of O.T. stories never happened except on paper.
@TheDarvus i gotta admit that is a logical comeback, but not only feelings is what happens, but actual healings, and miracles at work. Something that a HARDHEADED ADULT, WILL NEVER UNDERSSTAND.! Time for you to realize the possibilities.!
@TheDarvus it can be facts, like 20-40 years ago, it was a "fact" that jesus wasnt even real.! wich is now a load of crap.! lol and "i am giving you the truth".? now ur jus sounding like jesus himself lol.! and its funny because i am only a sixteen year old telling you this, and I KNOW EXACTLY KNOEE WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT when i speak about the HOLY SPIRIT. You cant say nothing about it at all, cause i knoee FOR A FACT.! that even I a sixteen year old boy from PHILADELPHIA,PA. FROM THE GHETTO.
@djlennz and that even i have felt it. - "coincidental mishaps" what you type of non believers use when a miracle was performed. like a man was healed, or something extrordinary. YOU SSAY, or it was just coincidental or a lie.
@TheDarvus see i stand corrected. only if u ever felt the holy spirit u will change, and ever stop basing your life on facts whit only eyes and ears. So ALL THAT INFO ON TOP, uncared about from a true christian.! U CAN SAYY ALL THAT PSYCHOLOGICAL AND FACT BASED CRAP, but iit wont nudge me at all, cuz theres tooooo much miracles and stuff that happened in MY LIFE to even say GOD AINT REAL or He isnt in my life and JESUS AINT REAL. So thanks and goodbye.! :D
I like how one coin found proves that the story of Jesus is true to this guy, but yet the millions of fossils found proving evolution are not enough to convince him. That's what I call twisted logic or in other words blind faith.
Theres legit proof about jesus being real LEGIT EVIDENCE AND HISTORICAL RECORDS.!!! yet people still chooses not too believe. WOOW. But i can say only thru the holy spirit will people change.! :]
Joseph Callaway, a conservative Southern Baptist wrote: Despite extensive excavation, no evidence of a Late Bronze Age (1500-1200 B. C.) Canaanite city was found. In short, there was no Canaanite city here for Joshua to conquer (Biblical Archaeology Review, "Joseph A. Callaway: 1920-1988," November/December 1988, p. 24, emphasis added). If you want more please let me know.The bible is full of errors.
Archeology has its quirks; Lee gives another impression. No scientist gives the final word on any subject. Hyperbole of a single fact makes a case less convincing, the historical Jesus has many parts... sometimes I wonder if any of it is relevant?
It was dated by the archaeologist, not the coins printing. They used the printing to determine who was in power at the time along with the actual age to determine its authenticity.
It is important to understand that their is a BIG, BIG difference between science and religious belief systems. Science is a tool used to solve problems. Religious belief systems are things you believe in. You don't believe in science. Instead, you use it to solve problems just like your hammer. You don't believe in your hammer, you use it to solve problems. Science and religious belief systems are completely unrelated and unfit for comparison.
I suggest that most of the people who make negative comments on here couldn't explain any alleged scientific findings either that contradict or support this man's position. In other words, most of you just rely on what you see on tv or what you here other people say, without doing ANY real research of your own. It's cheap to sit back and fire off cheap shots and sarcastic remarks like those you here on tv. Scientist make tons of assumption in drawing their conclusions...take a closer look.
It always amazes me how many people who comment on subjects such as this, comment so blindly and arrogantly. The subject of "is there a God"? seems really important. So should people investigate prior to making jaded and sarcastic judgments?
This man is a genius. He uses "scientists” (from the discovery institute) that don’t use the scientific method. Therefore, they don’t post their work in science journals. And they don’t put their work up for peer review. This allows a person to say anything they want and act like science agrees. Then he sells this garbage science books and dvds to unsuspecting public. Cha Ching. GENIUS! Watch his science get exposed in court... watch Judgement Day:Intelligent Design on Trial (youtube)
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Im watching the case for Christ right now. One thing these university "educated" people are not understanding. Is how the scriptures where written. They were written by the power of the holy spirit from inspiration of God. and translated.
@HedeenJeff "how the scriptures where written" Nice fundamentalist stuff. Can you actually proof any of that supernatural process, or is it something the "educated" people should just accept.
@HedeenJeff - Why would the "WORD OF GOD" need to be translated ??? Wouldn't comprehension of a creator's message be inherent in the initial design ??? If not, it's poor design ... Who would create a computer that won't accept your programming ??? Why choose to transmit it in a backward illiterate part of the world to goat herders for whom a wheel barrow was cutting edge tech ???
@BCPowerman - So, you equate literacy ,the ability to widely disseminate info, & technology with arrogance ... That certainly explains a lot ... I find there is no greater arrogance than the arrogance of those that claim to know the mind & ways of a god ...
@MaitreyaRocket NObody knows the mind or ways of God, or else He wouldn't BE God. We just know what He asks of us, thanks to His holy word, the Bible. =)
@4ourty5ive -- The whole "god works in mysterious ways" is a pedantic cop out . Does he want all of humanity to hear & understand his message clearly ??? In that respect, he's utterly failed ... In fact, the entire Bible is a comedic history of one fuck up after the next ... Builds the world with Adam, doesn't like it. So. he creates a childs game of don't my stuff knowing full well they will... Everything goes to shit . Rebuilds, doesn't like it, floods the joint.
@4ourty5ive - Nobody knows the mind & ways ? They do if you believe the Bible. They can asset your god is a misogynist promoter of slavery, genocide, rape & murder. They cann assert him to be childlike, petty, angry, fearful, & believer in other gods. Soooooooo, your god has a holy book that's been cobbled together by committee, & rewritten to suit whoever was in power at the time ... Some god, you can keep it, just keep it to yourself .
@MaitreyaRocket If anyone such as you have too much pride to be open to what God shows them, they will not choose to accept to believe Him on every reality account fact revealed. Even when Jesus Christ revealed that He matched the complete nature and diety of God Himself before many people when He lived and walked on this planet earth, most of all the people still refused to believe and accept Him who He showed He is.
@BBQFanNo1 - Thanks for that uselss diatribe of bullshit ... If I came to you & fed you the same bullshit about Shiva or Ganesha would you believe ? No . Why? Because it's just not feasible . When you look at your own bullshit as critically & with the same skepticism , logic, reason & common sense as you do theirs, you'll be on the path to awakening .Until then you're hiding, dancing with words, making excuses, moving the goal post & living inside an arrogant logical fallacy . The pride is yours
What an asinine comment. The bible clearly shows the ways and mind of God! He is an arrogant, violent, horrible cruel monster! The bible clearly shows this.
You contradict yourself and don't even see it. And what the hell makes the bible "his holy word?" How do you know this? Because the bible says it's holy, and the word of god, that makes it holy and the word of god? Learn to think please!
@MaitreyaRocket The problem with humans in not that they cannot know God so much as they have pride and sin in their life which they refuse to surrender their life to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ dying on the cross means all people who want to personally know God must surrender their whole life to Jesus Christ or die in their sin.
actually, the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus' apostles and instilled in them the knowledge of foreign languages, so that when they became evangelists they could proclaim the Gospel
@crimsonrazorsblades - No, it hasn't ... Look into it ... It hasn't survived a century without some dubious manipulation ... Losing books , adding books, lines & verses change to suit whoever was in power at the moment ...
As far as another book that's lasted as long, how many would you like me to list ? Lets start with "The Illiad" , "The Odessey", "The Vedas", "The Egyptian Book of the Dead" , "I Ching" , "Gilgamesh" (where Hebrews stole the flood story from), Do you want some more ?
Imagine the sheer dedication it takes to rewire your own brain to accept bullshit as divine , to acceot delusion over reason , & to stunt its very growth into a mind of an unfearful adult ...
''Nothing has ever been found that disproves anything in the Bible ''
Geologists went looking for evidence of a global flood over 200 years ago. They did not find any.
They found distinct layers of different kinds of rock with different fossil in them. Floods don't do that. They discovered it must have taken millions of years to make what we see. They knew the earth was Millions of years old before radiometric dating showed it was Billions of years old.
Burn the gospel of lunacy, my ritual has begun. Bathe in the darkness, it is Satan's creation. For life eternal in the demon's lodge. Burn the book of lies with flames. Choose the darkened spiraling path. Unholy world of doom and gloom awaits. Breath of demons soon flow. Darkness in your soul for all time. A gathering storm in a shadowy realm. Black clouds boiling in the sky. Signed in the shrine of blood 'n fear. The diabolical temple of hell. Satan's feet mark the ground.
For the interest of our viewers, the many comments of one danielfochtman are ample evidence that the old, worn-out, and nonsensical comments of those who fancy themselves atheists are still making the rounds. It's plain to see, he's very impressed with himself and his "scholarship". Sincere efforts to answer the very points that fochtman brings up are rejected out of hand. It has NEVER been about the evidence...these yo-yos wouldn't know "evidence" if it hit them in the face.
@tigerlilly66 The bible says, that your faith will be tested. Why do you throw up your arms when opposing views are presented ? Is your faith that weak ?
I have no problem whatsoever having my faith tested! If I did, I wouldn't engage the likes of fochtman in a protracted discussion. In fact, I particularly enjoy "contending for the faith", and because of I Peter 3:15. I don't know what you're referring to with your "weak faith" statement.
Perhaps you feel I should "turn the other cheek". If so, it is the wrong place and circumstance to do so. Apologetics means a vigorous, active defense and that's precisely what I try to do.
@tigerlilly66 In defense of the faith" !!!!! Let’s talk the conquistadors, The Thirty Years War, the Inquisition, witch-hunts, the history of the slave trade in the West, the destruction of Native cultures in the Americas and elsewhere, the real history behind the pogroms against Jewry in the Middle-Ages and later Eastern Europe, and so much more.
And your point is....? Sounds like you have all your anti-Christian talking points well ordered and outlined. Nothing like painting with a BROAD brush, is there?
If the stakes weren't so high, the frequency in which those that try to denigrate Christianity with the same tired, old "arguments" would be humorous. I will not be responding to your laundry list since there is no hint of cohesive thought, specifics, or a demonstration of even a slight desire to know the answers!
@tigerlilly66 Yes; You will not respond, because you can`t. Just duck and cower when the bullets fly. It`s so nice and dandy to praise the lord , and to pontificate about his exitence or attributes, but to face the crimes committed in his name, by people, who were sure to do the work of god, that`s another ballgame, Isn`it ? Yes you are right I do not want to know the answers of cowards, because the only answer is, MEA CULPA.
The only thing that "brakes" the Case for Christ is people who are not in the slightest interested in having evidence provided, regardless of how compelling, accurate, or well-documented. If I have learned one thing in debates over the last 30 years or so with LOTS of atheists like you is this point. The evidence for faith in the Bible and Christianity is all three...compelling, historically accurate, and well-documented by outside sources, but YOU couldn't care less about it.
@tigerlilly66 I read the book. He brings absolutely nothing new to the table. The person of Jesus is very little in doubt. The salvation story has NO EVIDENCE. If you claim that christianityis compelling,historically accuarate and well-documented, then with the same token, you claim that the jews are ignorant dummies.Studying the sciptures for 2.000 years and missing ALL THIS EVIDENCE.
@lizazoon = Your comments are EXACTLY what I said some 22 hours ago they would be...to a tee, and yet you still have the delusion that YOU are the one with "evidence" on his side! Utterly amazing! What you atheists just will not see is that to react any differently than you do would be to tacitly concede defeat. Just as Hitler refused to give up one inch of conquered soil, and in so doing caused the deaths of thousands of his soldiers, so atheists do likewise. Go ahead... burn those bridges!
@tigerlilly66 You are a prophet; knowing exactly what my comment will be. Unfortunately you do not refute my comment, but carefully beat around the bush, with a lot of bullshit. Talking about hitler, if you believe the bible ( the O.T.) hitler was a pusssy-cat compared to this loving heavenly father.
You know the WORST part about my loving heavenly Father? Those who reject and mock the Son he provided to pay for YOUR sins make him very angry. There's a reason why scripture says "it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God". Hitler was a demon-possessed maniac, the God of Heaven makes the rules, like 'em or not.
Mock, scoff, and have your fun now...your payday is coming as sure as tomorrow's sunrise.
You think I'm "threatening" you? Shows how clueless you truly are...I was WARNING you...a HUGE difference. Ever seen the "no fear" bumper stickers that so many like to show off? The one I like best is the one that says "fear GOD". He's the ONLY one anyone need fear, and only a FOOL refuses to do so.
BTW - the Bible is not a science textbook, but where it speaks of scientific things, it does so perfectly.I could cite several examples, but why should I? You couldn't care less.
@tigerlilly66 ; Spread the fear: Nice way to live; LOL As for science in the bible, it is 6th grade. Exactly what one would expect from an educated goat-herder 3.000 years ago.
@lizazoon = Unfortunately, I always arrive at the point at which I am now when dealing with your crowd...continue what is clearly an unfruitful "discussion", or put it to rest and move on. Your repeated comments make it fairly clear to me that the latter choice is appropriate. I say this with no rancor, but with sadness at the hardness of your heart.
And Lee, people don't usually question the historical accuracies in the bible, as it was primarily a Jewish Historical account. It's the supernatural they question.
Why i won't praise the old testament God.
1) He commanded women to be raped and kidnapped.
2) He committed Genocide (more than once)
3) He had a man blood sacrifice his virgin daughter against his will.
4) Throwing stones at rebellious kids till they died was ok.
5) Cheating women get killed but cheating men nothing.
@the1qb The USUAL christian cover-up.. OUT OF CONTEXT. When will you ever face reality. The OT. is the most exhalted accumulation of nonsense ever assembled by man.
Nothing ever has been found to disproove anything in the bible???
1) geological column. We have found PILES of dinosaur bones, yet they are never mixed with modern animals. If the flood happened, Dinosaur and horse bones would be mixed, there would be shark skeletons on mountaintops etc...
2) Radiometric Dating. (not to be confused with Carbon dating)
3) Man cannot live in Fish
4) Not one documented miracle since the invention of Cameras that hasn't been a hoax.
1) Some modern animals have been around since prehistoric times.
2) The Heavens and Earth were created in "7 days" How long is a "day" to a being that is timeless or before the Sun or Eath were created? A billion years? 40 Billion? Does it matter?
3) Whale, not a fish...hard to live in those too, I got nothing :)
4) "Miracle" as Baby Begins Breathing after Two Hours. Happened in August. Google it.
2) How long is a day to Moses, who wrote Genesis. God even said, The sun and the moon seperate day from night, so i think a day is just that. A day.
3) Whale vs. Fish....lost in translation.
4) Only on christian websites? Why hasn't the scientific communities picked up on this to study this miracle? 1) it was a misdiagnosis and 2) the child was braindamaged as expected when you can't breathe for extended periods of time.
2) Go back to the Hebrew. The word "yom" has been translated into "day" which has many different meanings.
3) I guess. Never studied that one much.
4) the child was dead. for another miracle, look at everything. Creation/Big Bang/ origin of the universe has been scientifically proven to be a miracle.
Embarassing aspects of people's lives sell stories. If we were to use Mr. Strobel's logic on matters, we should find soap operas and tabloids to be some of the most reliable information in the universe.
He simply asked the most common questions that people have about the Bible and the had biblical scholars answer it instead of watching National Geographic and hearing views that are not bilbical, usually secular. If you think he is a an idiot then good for you, his documentary(Case for christ) is for anyone that has no clue how dense the evidence is for scripture. He was a skeptic who actually asked bilbical scholars about the bible, which most people rarely do. Stop judging.
@yobro3535 He claims that stories about people that are embarrassing are evidence that the Bible is accurate. Soap operas and tabloids depend on embarrassing stories.
"Nothing has ever been found that disproves anything in the Bible and if something was found, it would be bigger than the Da Vinci Code!" Geez---the Israelis found no evidence of a settlement at Bethlehem in Judea prior to 1000 AD, bu Bethlehem in Galilee was a thriving Roman center 500 yrs before the birth of the Nazarene...and considering that the DaVinci Code is a proven hoax, what does that say about the bible?
Additionally, Lee Strobel, a failed hack journalist, lacks even the most minimal credentials to speak not only of archeology, but of basically anything other than he own monumental ego and utter ignorance of science. Strobel is less truthful than Kent Hovind, Eric Hovind, Benny Hinn, Janet Folger, Billy Crone, and Ken Ham put together.
@Imaginefree69 funny for all you so called athiest just how very intrested you all are in videos about God now why is that ya think hum? Me thinks you protest tooooooooooooo much maybe the real truth is you realy want God but your just not sure how to get to Him hu? Very easy fix.......... just talk to Him I swear He'll answer you back :D.
@RUR482i "Me thinks you protest tooooooooooooo much"
That's a valid observation
but, like many assumptions, is clarified by the entrance of facts.
I was a pastor and Bible teacher for over 40 years.
Now that I have escaped the delusion and embraced reason and reality, I feel it is my moral obligation to make some restitution by shining the light of TRUTH on the EXIT for any who may be seeking it.
I am ill and in pain and get no pleasure from being insulted and cursed daily, but it's my duty.
@Imaginefree69 funny for all you so called athiest just how very intrested you all are in videos about God now why is that ya think hum? Me thinks you protest tooooooooooooo much maybe the real truth is you realy want God but your just not sure how to get to Him hu? Very easy fix.......... just talk to Him I swear He'll answer you back :D.
As a fellow journalist, stroebel should be ashamed. He is using one sided sources. This is the first thing you are taught not do as a professional journalist. Then he uses his creds to persuade people of how he is right....well of course a bunch of christian archeologists are going to think the New Testament is accurate....what about all the other archeologists? what do they say? one word for you Strobo..."BIASED"
On the other hand, YOU are of course completely honest, above reproach, intellectual, and free from any bias or pre-conception about anything! How fortunate indeed we are to have you wisdom and insights to study and learn from!
Pass the bread...the baloney has already been around.
Wow, what a fine christian you are. Thank you for the insult. I merely pointed out that lee strobel uses anti-journalist tactics, but uses his title of journalist to gain creedence....am i wrong?
And you reply with insults. Typical christian. When you go to heaven, make sure to tell god it was people like you that made people like me not even consider his existence.
And what are you, Lee's wife? i see you are slamming everyone on here that doesn't agree with him.
@Benjiro1234 Science has nothing to do with "magic". Theory can mean an "idea" in everyday life. However, a scientific theory never means an "idea". Scientific theory means something that has been tested over and over and still holds true. So the theory of evolution has been tested by everyone for 150 years (including lee strobel, discovery institute,etc) and still holds absolutely true given all information available. If you doubt that, you doubt it out of lack of information/education.
@Benjiro1234 It has well been said that MAGIC is merely technology which we do not understand. You do not understand the chemical reactions, so you call it "magic." To a scientist, it's just chemistry. It's the Bible stories that defy causality, with your uncreated, invisible god, your unicorns and talking beasts and men walking on water and a 600-year-old desert dweller taking every terrestrial species on earth on an 18 month cruise. THAT is not scientific!
@Benjiro1234 How absurd. Please show me, in the records of the day, actions by Herod which would have eclipsed such an atrocity. There are none. Look at the public response to, say, the "Columbine High School massacre" That had a huge impact and will show up in the history books, yet only 12 students and one teacher were killed. Also, as I have already shown, Luke 2:21 - 42 describes Jesus' life and place of residence from 8 days to 12 years old. Jesus never went to Egypt, according to Luke.
Lee Strobel said certain things couldnt be made through evolution in the "Case for the Creator". This is the basis for his and Behe's "intelligent design" group. They went to court with this argument and were proven wrong. Watch "judgement day:intelligent design on trial'. Worse yet, the ID group was said to have testified inconsistantly or lied outright. There were calls to bring perjury charges against them. Lee's ideas were proven wrong in court, enough said.
@Information39 "the ID group was said to have testified inconsistantly or lied outright. " Nothing new about that. People have been lying for Jesus for thousands of years now. The leaders of the Creationist religion are seen to lie constantly- AE Wilder-Smith was exposed for promoting the hoax of superimposed human and dinosaur foot prints. Kent Hovind is doing 10 years in federal prison. Ron Wyatt's lies are catching up to him. Ray Comfort's lies no longer fool even Christians....
@Imaginefree69 = Indeed, I will examine this "evidence of deceit" and judge for myself. As for Wilder-Smith, Hovind, Wyatt, and Comfort, I am unaware of the "lies" that you say they tell in large numbers. Even if you can conclusively prove that this has occurred, it does NOTHING to change the truth of Scripture, nor of the validity of the Young Earth Creationist position. One of the basics of apologetics is that truth is open to falsification, as you are claiming here. Got the "goods" for us?
@tigerlilly66 " I am unaware of the "lies"" No doubt. But you can find them easily. Read the Amazon previews of Ray Comfort's new book You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence, But You Can't Make Him Think. Have a look; Comfort thinks that according to evolution, man and woman evolved separately but simultaneously, water evolved just in time for them to drink it, and that gravity evolved just in time to hold them to the earth! It's really the most astounding drivel I've ever seen. Have a look!
As I said I would do, I viewed the entire 12 episodes of the video, and took notes throughout. I suspected that NOVA would take a strongly pro-evolution position, and that was evident quickly and consistently during the production. If Tiktaalic and Archaeopteryx are the BEST that evolution can produce as "evidence" for Darwin, I'm sure my friends at ICR (Institute for Creation Research) had a hearty laugh at that! Pascal had it right, it's NEVER been about the evidence.
@tigerlilly66 I commend your tenacity and responsibility. Of course NOVA is going to be pro-science, that's their mandate. The evidence for evolution is ubiquitous and immense. Tiktaalic and Archaeopteryx are neither the only nor the best examples, they are simply illustrative of certain principles. BTW, I'm still eager to see your evidence for the Bible stories about talking animals and men walking on the water...
@tigerlilly66 If the scriptures are true, why is there an entire industry of LYING to make people believe it is true? The truth requires no fraudulent evidence. Speaking of evidence, can you provide any to support the Bible stories about talking animals and men walking on the water? And how can contradictions be true? For instance, Genesis chapters one and two provide mutually exclusive accounts of creation. They cannot both be true. And the gospels are filled with contradictions. Not true.
@Imaginefree69 I know of Ron Wyatt. He faked 18 discoveries including Noahs Ark, Ark of the covenant, wheel from chariots in the red sea, etc. All of which christians still point to as evidence even though his own church calls him a fraud. Thanks for the other names, I will look into them as well.
@tigerlilly66 Thanks for watching Judgement Day: Intelligent Design on trial. Yes, it is 12 parts and opens with a sign saying dover in the first seconds of it. You get to see how one of Strobels ideas, the bacteria flagellum arguement holds up with scientists present in a court(even with a religious judge). Lee preached this in the case for a creator (book and dvd). You also get to see how the discovery institute operates (Which Strobel and behe are a part of).
@tigerlilly66 If you want to see second by second places where Lee Strobel is incorrect about science watch "critical analysis of lee strobles a case for the creator." I know, 2 videos to watch. However, my gf and I watched over 100 videos last winter on both sides of the issue. I wouldnt ask someone to do something I havent. Netflix addict. lol. Seemed one side was saying one thing and the other was saying the opposite. I think Judgement Day sorts some of that out.
It's amazing all the nay-sayers don't refute one single thing said in this video. They can't. So the bring up other topics. Sounds like a bunch of "yeah, but... yeah, but..." heads.
He only tells half the truth. Most scholars agree that the census according to Luke to which Strobel refers wouldn't have applied to Joseph because he wasn't a Roman citizen. And moreover, it is ridiculous to think that, if it had happened, he would have to travel to Bethlehem.
Doesn't archeological findings prove Adam and Even never existed? And if so 'original sin' never existed. And therefore Jesus died for nothing. But it's okay, Jesus was not the messiah. The Messiah is a guy from Bethlehem called Immanuel. Not Jesus, from Nazareth that got to Bethlehem in two different accounts and oh by the way, the angel said "Call him Jesus, but um .. um Immanuel too. The evidence is against the Bible.
for imaginefree69, pity you!!!you're a lost soul!!!as if like of this example:if a pastor says repent of your sexual immoralities,imaginefree69 says i won't co'z you don't have proof or evidence that i did sexual intercourse or ( 69 )then later imaginefree69 would watch porn thinking that the pastor wouldn't see him watching 69,just like his youtube title imaginefree 69
I urge you so much to actually research the evidence for the new testament. there is more evidence for the new testament than any other historical piece we naturally take as truth from that period. For eg, Caesar Gallic wars. Sadly, I don't really have the character counter necessary to really mount an argument in one text box/comment so i just ask you to watch the video series on youtube or buy the book: The case for Christ.
The answer is simple as to why God had a society and their children wiped out...When you went to war...Especially in ancient times, if you left the seed of the enemy alive and any of their relatives...They would raise their children to hate the ones who conquered them and instill in them revenge...If you leave the children alive then it's logical to understand they do grow up to become a man and they will one day wield a sword...No seed left from a culture means no future conflict with them.
The evidence is clear and unmistakable to anyone without an a priori...a pre-conceived attitute AGAINST belief in the veracity and authenticity of the not just the New Testament, but the whole of Christian doctrine and belief.
The old adage certainly plays out here -
"A man convinced AGAINST HIS WILL, is of the same opinion still".
It's not that people CAN'T believe the evidence for the Christian faith, but that they WON'T !
Note: The first three sources are available online, through a simple google search. Unfortunately, Youtube doesn't seem to allow me to post the URLs, but I encourage anyone who was read my comments below to check the sources themselves, Richard Carrier's essay alone takes on and shows the fatal flaws in every attempt to reconcile the contradiction regarding Quirinius.
Again, we should examine these issues carefully, in order to make sure we are not promoting falsehoods to justify our beliefs.
Telamon28 4 months ago
Now, I'll close by saying I sincerely hope that Strobel merely does not know that the Vardaman coin is a hoax, and is not willfully lying. We should excercise caution to ensure we are not promoting hoaxes.
Sources:
The Date of the Nativity in Luke, by Richard Carrier
The Census of Quirinius and the Birth of Jesus of Nazareth, by James McGrath
Livius.org: Quirinius
The Birth of the Messiah, Raymond E. Brown
Scripting Jesus, Michael White
Telamon28 4 months ago
Finally, the governors of Syria during the lifetime of Herod are known, and there is nowhere for Quirinius to fit in until after Herod's death. This is especially clear from the records of Quirinius' own career. During Herod's reign, he was serving in other places and other offices in the Roman Empire, he was not in Syria. It is simply untrue that Luke was right and the archaeologists were wrong. We must acknowledge this contradiction, and not fall for hoaxes like Vardaman's. (sources next post)
Telamon28 4 months ago
@Telamon28 "Finally, the governors of Syria during the lifetime of Herod are known, and there is nowhere for Quirinius to fit in until after Herod's death."
Well, the pat response I got to that one is that Herod's death was not in 4 BCE but a few years after that, i.e, 4 - 1 BCE. It's a lame attempt to make Herod's reign coincide with Quirinius' tenure in Syria.
EruditeScythian 2 months ago
In addition, even if the micrographic letters had been real, there is telling evidence that they could not have come from the time of Quirinius or Herod, judging by Vardaman's sketches of the coin. In his drawings of the micrographic letters, Vardaman included the letter J in words such as "Jesus." The letter J was not invented in the time of the Romans, instead they used the letter I. This is a basic mistake that any skilled archaeologist would not make. (continued in next comment, w/sources).
Telamon28 4 months ago
Historian Richard Carrier was eventually able to track down and examine the coin Vardaman found under a microscope. No micrographic letters were found. In fact, a comparison of the actual coin with Vardaman's drawings revealed that Vardaman invented many details that weren't on the coin itself, other than these imaginary micrographic letters. (continued in next comment, sources at the end).
Telamon28 4 months ago
In my reading of the Case For Christ, I found the Vardaman coin to be the most disappointing and revealing "proof" cited by Strobel. In regards to the coin, Strobel has either been misinformed or is lying outright. Vardaman claimed to find the coin, however he did not present any evidence of the coin for peer review, only drawings of the coin and alleged microletters. (continued in next comment, as I don't have enough characters).
Telamon28 4 months ago
Recording history doesn't make the myth of the bible correct so what if we find a city what does that have to do with Jesus or god?
wachnathan 6 months ago
@wachnathan - It has nothing to with Jesus or God. Many fictional works have historical accuracies.
Franknarfable 5 months ago
@Franknarfable And some don't so that leaves it some what untrust worthy doesn't it the bible is a massive confussion because of its fictional and nonfictional material you have to cherry pick it to make any sense from it and thats exactly what they do. I would say that some of the latter gosbels actually get the locations wrong and make obvious error when they plagerized off of earler gosbels. When you only focas on actually discovered locations and ignore the error it sounds convincing i know.
wachnathan 5 months ago
@wachnathan - Basically the New Testament is fictional history. Jesus and Paul (the main characters) are completely fictional.
The New Testament was written under the reign of the Flavian Trinity. Vespasian (the father), Titus (the good son) and Domitian. They destroyed Jerusalem and defeated the Jews. They created the Messiah, the Christ that never came.
It's clear to me. The writers where good historians, but the Romans had the best education by miles.
Franknarfable 5 months ago
@wachnathan That it was in the Bible, and that it has some association with God, meaning that there is a possibility of His existence.
falloutseriesftw 5 months ago
@falloutseriesftw Well hammers exist does that make Thor real? no it just means we associated him with a hammer and thats exactly what am talking about kinda funny how you have so much in the bible that leads you to believe that god actually interacts with humans and the world but yet no person outside of the bible has ever reported such things this stuff is obviously propaganda to deceive people thats my point.
wachnathan 5 months ago
@wachnathan How do you explain all the near death experiences, supernatural (spiritual and ghostly) encounters, and how Israel exists today if God doesnt exist. If he didnt, when the sea that was opened for the Israselites to cross thru never would have opened up and Moses and the rest of God's people would have been renslaved directly before that, meaning Israel wouldnt exist today. So think about these, you know, things you almighty science cant prove (supernatural things).
falloutseriesftw 5 months ago
@falloutseriesftw I agree there is some mystery behind it yes but you then also have to acknowledge peoples past life experiences as well which contradicts christianity so to me there is a broader picture that we don't understand the bible is just a collection of ideas mostly fabracated but some of it does touch on truth. My understanding of christianity and why it is true is because of how the bible was put together and edited over time there is way to much human ego put in to it.
wachnathan 5 months ago
I also want to point out that i have a list of failed prophecies that proves Jesus wasn't who he said he was but you christians choose to ignore such things.Isaiah 52:1 “Awake, awake, O Zion, clothe yourself with strength. Put on your garments of splendor, O Jerusalem, the holy city. The uncircumcised and defiled will not enter you again.”
FAIL: There are still uncircumcised people living in Jerusalem even today.
This is just one example that really seems very illogical to me but anyways!
wachnathan 5 months ago
@wachnathan Isaiah was speakiing not of Jerusalem, but of spiritual Zion. Circumcision is not of the flesh, but of the heart! Jesus came and we no longer need an outward sign, but an inward sign. The Pharasees from the time of Christ were circumcized in the flesh, but their heart was far from God.
elinikk 4 months ago
@elinikk Forgive me but i can't make sense out of that when its clearly stated in the bible?Thats just one example and that should be enough. I have many failed prophecies that chrisitans just ignore am just saying this is a sign of ignorance that people will always make exuse to keep there faith alive knowing there is issues this is unlogical, unrational thinking for modern people. My point is stop making exuses for something that is clearly wrong a rational mind acknowledges this.
wachnathan 4 months ago
@wachnathan Circumcision of the heart - Romans 2:29.
For a prophesy try Rev. 8:10-11. In Russian "wormwood" is Chernobyl. And in 1986 there was a nuclear meltdown at Chernobyl (a great star fell) making this area of the world inhabitable and the waters "bitter".
elinikk 4 months ago
I would like to discuss a possible explaination am not claiming its true but it could be, what if we are just living from body to body and our brain dies and we loose memory the next rebirth? how could you dispute that when people have past life experiences am just saying there is other explainations that are plasauble that contradicts christians heavan and hell theory? Am with you on one point i don't think we actually die its our bodies that die really whats beyond that is still debatable.
wachnathan 5 months ago
he ends his case saying that it requires more faith to be atheist then it does Christine but the thing is he takes the bible to be evidence which can be easily argued a fictional piece of work. Also the idea that one faith is more likely then another faith is impossible since they are both beliefs made from scratch. You can prove nor disprove a religious belief you can only admit the truth which is i dont know.
flaminfireboy 7 months ago
@flaminfireboy Have you tried the excellent book, ' The case against the case for Christ' by Robert M Price which is his reply to Strobel ? Which is more likely 1 That Bible authors, like any playwrights,guessed & wrote words into the mouths of 'God', 'Satan' & co or 2 That they got an actual text message from the gods? People in ancient times thought dreams were like video conferencing. See archaeologist Israel Finkelstein who thinks much of O.T. stories never happened except on paper.
zytigon 6 months ago
@zytigon Oh that sounds interesting. I'll check it out.
flaminfireboy 6 months ago
@TheDarvus uhuh
djlennz 7 months ago
@TheDarvus i gotta admit that is a logical comeback, but not only feelings is what happens, but actual healings, and miracles at work. Something that a HARDHEADED ADULT, WILL NEVER UNDERSSTAND.! Time for you to realize the possibilities.!
djlennz 7 months ago
@TheDarvus it can be facts, like 20-40 years ago, it was a "fact" that jesus wasnt even real.! wich is now a load of crap.! lol and "i am giving you the truth".? now ur jus sounding like jesus himself lol.! and its funny because i am only a sixteen year old telling you this, and I KNOW EXACTLY KNOEE WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT when i speak about the HOLY SPIRIT. You cant say nothing about it at all, cause i knoee FOR A FACT.! that even I a sixteen year old boy from PHILADELPHIA,PA. FROM THE GHETTO.
djlennz 7 months ago
@djlennz and that even i have felt it. - "coincidental mishaps" what you type of non believers use when a miracle was performed. like a man was healed, or something extrordinary. YOU SSAY, or it was just coincidental or a lie.
djlennz 7 months ago
@TheDarvus see i stand corrected. only if u ever felt the holy spirit u will change, and ever stop basing your life on facts whit only eyes and ears. So ALL THAT INFO ON TOP, uncared about from a true christian.! U CAN SAYY ALL THAT PSYCHOLOGICAL AND FACT BASED CRAP, but iit wont nudge me at all, cuz theres tooooo much miracles and stuff that happened in MY LIFE to even say GOD AINT REAL or He isnt in my life and JESUS AINT REAL. So thanks and goodbye.! :D
djlennz 7 months ago
@djlennz oh and also "coincidental mishaps"(youll stop basin your facts on)
djlennz 7 months ago
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@TheDarvus The evidence you think you have for evolution is bogus
Jesuslives310 7 months ago
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Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 8 months ago
I like how one coin found proves that the story of Jesus is true to this guy, but yet the millions of fossils found proving evolution are not enough to convince him. That's what I call twisted logic or in other words blind faith.
butternutsquashist 8 months ago
Theres legit proof about jesus being real LEGIT EVIDENCE AND HISTORICAL RECORDS.!!! yet people still chooses not too believe. WOOW. But i can say only thru the holy spirit will people change.! :]
djlennz 8 months ago
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askingyou4life 9 months ago
YET AGAIN Peter Joseph is proved to be a LIAR with his, "Scientific Method" of LYING!
Venus Project is even NAMED after Star of Satan
SHITEGEIST AGAINDUMB is NWO disinfo claiming to be NON-religious yet PJ s' main sources are from renowned Satanist authors
IM NOTreligious, JESUS IS NOT RELIGION - He's a HISTORICAL ANTI-BANKER, REVOLUTIONARY MAN!
But ZeitHEIST takes the religion of Satanism VERY seriously! & It wouldnt pay Bankers quest for CONTROL for people to know of a REVOLUTIONARY!
IdaSputum 9 months ago
Ignorance is bliss...
manowar40 9 months ago
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Joseph Callaway, a conservative Southern Baptist wrote: Despite extensive excavation, no evidence of a Late Bronze Age (1500-1200 B. C.) Canaanite city was found. In short, there was no Canaanite city here for Joshua to conquer (Biblical Archaeology Review, "Joseph A. Callaway: 1920-1988," November/December 1988, p. 24, emphasis added). If you want more please let me know.The bible is full of errors.
raywingfield 9 months ago
Archeology has its quirks; Lee gives another impression. No scientist gives the final word on any subject. Hyperbole of a single fact makes a case less convincing, the historical Jesus has many parts... sometimes I wonder if any of it is relevant?
granddad2002 10 months ago
So there was a coin labeled 10 bc you lee strobel are an idiot it wasn't called bc at that time
globalfraud 11 months ago
It was dated by the archaeologist, not the coins printing. They used the printing to determine who was in power at the time along with the actual age to determine its authenticity.
carolbaby1775 10 months ago
@globalfraud "LET THE HEATHEN RAGE"
godwithme777 10 months ago
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It is important to understand that their is a BIG, BIG difference between science and religious belief systems. Science is a tool used to solve problems. Religious belief systems are things you believe in. You don't believe in science. Instead, you use it to solve problems just like your hammer. You don't believe in your hammer, you use it to solve problems. Science and religious belief systems are completely unrelated and unfit for comparison.
blaisingm 11 months ago
I suggest that most of the people who make negative comments on here couldn't explain any alleged scientific findings either that contradict or support this man's position. In other words, most of you just rely on what you see on tv or what you here other people say, without doing ANY real research of your own. It's cheap to sit back and fire off cheap shots and sarcastic remarks like those you here on tv. Scientist make tons of assumption in drawing their conclusions...take a closer look.
sdmtrust 1 year ago
It always amazes me how many people who comment on subjects such as this, comment so blindly and arrogantly. The subject of "is there a God"? seems really important. So should people investigate prior to making jaded and sarcastic judgments?
sdmtrust 1 year ago
Get over it! There is no god! There was no Jesus, and if there was, he ain't coming back !!
steveinchelsea 1 year ago
@steveinchelsea Wait you can't be like There was no Jesus, AND IF THERE WAS... too confusing.lol
Blackiechan77 11 months ago
@Blackiechan77 Ok - i'll try to make it simple - there wasn't and he isn't ! How's that?
steveinchelsea 11 months ago
THINK THE MESSIAH IS COMING? TAKE MY MONEY!! watch?v=Tt7eCh_mr3w
inacht26 1 year ago
This man is a genius. He uses "scientists” (from the discovery institute) that don’t use the scientific method. Therefore, they don’t post their work in science journals. And they don’t put their work up for peer review. This allows a person to say anything they want and act like science agrees. Then he sells this garbage science books and dvds to unsuspecting public. Cha Ching. GENIUS! Watch his science get exposed in court... watch Judgement Day:Intelligent Design on Trial (youtube)
Information39 1 year ago
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BBQFanNo1 1 year ago
"""The Case For Christ From Archeological & Historical Records """
I'll make this real short ....... There isn't one ...
MaitreyaRocket 1 year ago
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xkalibur100 1 year ago
WAT DA HELL IS HE TALKIN BOUT
hamatela 1 year ago
@hamatela Jesus Christ's existence. Watch the video called The Case for Christ, the DVD. You can find it online
4ourty5ive 1 year ago
Im watching the case for Christ right now. One thing these university "educated" people are not understanding. Is how the scriptures where written. They were written by the power of the holy spirit from inspiration of God. and translated.
HedeenJeff 1 year ago
@HedeenJeff "how the scriptures where written" Nice fundamentalist stuff. Can you actually proof any of that supernatural process, or is it something the "educated" people should just accept.
4312ton 1 year ago
@HedeenJeff - Why would the "WORD OF GOD" need to be translated ??? Wouldn't comprehension of a creator's message be inherent in the initial design ??? If not, it's poor design ... Who would create a computer that won't accept your programming ??? Why choose to transmit it in a backward illiterate part of the world to goat herders for whom a wheel barrow was cutting edge tech ???
MaitreyaRocket 1 year ago
@MaitreyaRocket Because God chooses to use the humble and not the arrogant.
BCPowerman 1 year ago 11
@BCPowerman - So, you equate literacy ,the ability to widely disseminate info, & technology with arrogance ... That certainly explains a lot ... I find there is no greater arrogance than the arrogance of those that claim to know the mind & ways of a god ...
MaitreyaRocket 1 year ago
@MaitreyaRocket NObody knows the mind or ways of God, or else He wouldn't BE God. We just know what He asks of us, thanks to His holy word, the Bible. =)
4ourty5ive 1 year ago 5
@4ourty5ive -- The whole "god works in mysterious ways" is a pedantic cop out . Does he want all of humanity to hear & understand his message clearly ??? In that respect, he's utterly failed ... In fact, the entire Bible is a comedic history of one fuck up after the next ... Builds the world with Adam, doesn't like it. So. he creates a childs game of don't my stuff knowing full well they will... Everything goes to shit . Rebuilds, doesn't like it, floods the joint.
MaitreyaRocket 1 year ago
@4ourty5ive - Nobody knows the mind & ways ? They do if you believe the Bible. They can asset your god is a misogynist promoter of slavery, genocide, rape & murder. They cann assert him to be childlike, petty, angry, fearful, & believer in other gods. Soooooooo, your god has a holy book that's been cobbled together by committee, & rewritten to suit whoever was in power at the time ... Some god, you can keep it, just keep it to yourself .
MaitreyaRocket 1 year ago
@MaitreyaRocket If anyone such as you have too much pride to be open to what God shows them, they will not choose to accept to believe Him on every reality account fact revealed. Even when Jesus Christ revealed that He matched the complete nature and diety of God Himself before many people when He lived and walked on this planet earth, most of all the people still refused to believe and accept Him who He showed He is.
BBQFanNo1 1 year ago
@BBQFanNo1 - Thanks for that uselss diatribe of bullshit ... If I came to you & fed you the same bullshit about Shiva or Ganesha would you believe ? No . Why? Because it's just not feasible . When you look at your own bullshit as critically & with the same skepticism , logic, reason & common sense as you do theirs, you'll be on the path to awakening .Until then you're hiding, dancing with words, making excuses, moving the goal post & living inside an arrogant logical fallacy . The pride is yours
MaitreyaRocket 1 year ago
@4ourty5ive
What an asinine comment. The bible clearly shows the ways and mind of God! He is an arrogant, violent, horrible cruel monster! The bible clearly shows this.
You contradict yourself and don't even see it. And what the hell makes the bible "his holy word?" How do you know this? Because the bible says it's holy, and the word of god, that makes it holy and the word of god? Learn to think please!
1ProudFemaleAtheist 1 year ago
@4ourty5ive That's a assumption considering you don't know God.
treasuredroperX 1 year ago
@BCPowerman - Was god using the humble to perpetrate a genocide ? Is that how that works ?
MaitreyaRocket 1 year ago
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BBQFanNo1 1 year ago
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@MaitreyaRocket The problem with humans in not that they cannot know God so much as they have pride and sin in their life which they refuse to surrender their life to Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ dying on the cross means all people who want to personally know God must surrender their whole life to Jesus Christ or die in their sin.
BBQFanNo1 1 year ago
@MaitreyaRocket
actually, the Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus' apostles and instilled in them the knowledge of foreign languages, so that when they became evangelists they could proclaim the Gospel
crimsonrazorsblades 1 year ago
@crimsonrazorsblades - Oh hell, Now that makes a world more sense ...Did he use Rosetta Stone ? I can vouch for them. Those programs really work.
MaitreyaRocket 1 year ago
@MaitreyaRocket
well, the Bible has survived for thousands of years in its entirety and has been translated into many languages
tell me what other book has lasted for so long
crimsonrazorsblades 1 year ago
@crimsonrazorsblades - No, it hasn't ... Look into it ... It hasn't survived a century without some dubious manipulation ... Losing books , adding books, lines & verses change to suit whoever was in power at the moment ...
As far as another book that's lasted as long, how many would you like me to list ? Lets start with "The Illiad" , "The Odessey", "The Vedas", "The Egyptian Book of the Dead" , "I Ching" , "Gilgamesh" (where Hebrews stole the flood story from), Do you want some more ?
MaitreyaRocket 1 year ago
Imagine the sheer dedication it takes to rewire your own brain to accept bullshit as divine , to acceot delusion over reason , & to stunt its very growth into a mind of an unfearful adult ...
MaitreyaRocket 1 year ago
@MaitreyaRocket Yup. Richard Dawkins seems rather dedicated.
Randomicity912 1 year ago
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@Randomicity912
"Yup. Richard Dawkins seems rather dedicated."
Not really. This video gives a very broad overview, and not a lot of details.
Have you read Dawkins or just going on what other Christians say?
hipstermi 1 year ago
''Nothing has ever been found that disproves anything in the Bible ''
Geologists went looking for evidence of a global flood over 200 years ago. They did not find any.
They found distinct layers of different kinds of rock with different fossil in them. Floods don't do that. They discovered it must have taken millions of years to make what we see. They knew the earth was Millions of years old before radiometric dating showed it was Billions of years old.
gregrutz 1 year ago
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TheDarkLordLucifer 1 year ago
For the interest of our viewers, the many comments of one danielfochtman are ample evidence that the old, worn-out, and nonsensical comments of those who fancy themselves atheists are still making the rounds. It's plain to see, he's very impressed with himself and his "scholarship". Sincere efforts to answer the very points that fochtman brings up are rejected out of hand. It has NEVER been about the evidence...these yo-yos wouldn't know "evidence" if it hit them in the face.
John 3:18
tigerlilly66 1 year ago
@tigerlilly66 The bible says, that your faith will be tested. Why do you throw up your arms when opposing views are presented ? Is your faith that weak ?
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon =
I have no problem whatsoever having my faith tested! If I did, I wouldn't engage the likes of fochtman in a protracted discussion. In fact, I particularly enjoy "contending for the faith", and because of I Peter 3:15. I don't know what you're referring to with your "weak faith" statement.
Perhaps you feel I should "turn the other cheek". If so, it is the wrong place and circumstance to do so. Apologetics means a vigorous, active defense and that's precisely what I try to do.
tigerlilly66 1 year ago
@tigerlilly66 In defense of the faith" !!!!! Let’s talk the conquistadors, The Thirty Years War, the Inquisition, witch-hunts, the history of the slave trade in the West, the destruction of Native cultures in the Americas and elsewhere, the real history behind the pogroms against Jewry in the Middle-Ages and later Eastern Europe, and so much more.
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon =
And your point is....? Sounds like you have all your anti-Christian talking points well ordered and outlined. Nothing like painting with a BROAD brush, is there?
If the stakes weren't so high, the frequency in which those that try to denigrate Christianity with the same tired, old "arguments" would be humorous. I will not be responding to your laundry list since there is no hint of cohesive thought, specifics, or a demonstration of even a slight desire to know the answers!
tigerlilly66 1 year ago
@tigerlilly66 Yes; You will not respond, because you can`t. Just duck and cower when the bullets fly. It`s so nice and dandy to praise the lord , and to pontificate about his exitence or attributes, but to face the crimes committed in his name, by people, who were sure to do the work of god, that`s another ballgame, Isn`it ? Yes you are right I do not want to know the answers of cowards, because the only answer is, MEA CULPA.
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon =
Oooh! I'm impressed! You know a little Latin! I also know a little Latin...he runs the burrito shop a few blocks away.
Whew! got away clean...almost got nicked by some flying spittle from a raving lunatic.
John 3:18 - read it and weep.
tigerlilly66 1 year ago
@tigerlilly66 The believers in Christ make or brake the case for christ. The history of christianity is not in favor of the case for Christ,
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon =
The only thing that "brakes" the Case for Christ is people who are not in the slightest interested in having evidence provided, regardless of how compelling, accurate, or well-documented. If I have learned one thing in debates over the last 30 years or so with LOTS of atheists like you is this point. The evidence for faith in the Bible and Christianity is all three...compelling, historically accurate, and well-documented by outside sources, but YOU couldn't care less about it.
tigerlilly66 1 year ago
@tigerlilly66 I read the book. He brings absolutely nothing new to the table. The person of Jesus is very little in doubt. The salvation story has NO EVIDENCE. If you claim that christianityis compelling,historically accuarate and well-documented, then with the same token, you claim that the jews are ignorant dummies.Studying the sciptures for 2.000 years and missing ALL THIS EVIDENCE.
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon = Your comments are EXACTLY what I said some 22 hours ago they would be...to a tee, and yet you still have the delusion that YOU are the one with "evidence" on his side! Utterly amazing! What you atheists just will not see is that to react any differently than you do would be to tacitly concede defeat. Just as Hitler refused to give up one inch of conquered soil, and in so doing caused the deaths of thousands of his soldiers, so atheists do likewise. Go ahead... burn those bridges!
tigerlilly66 1 year ago
@tigerlilly66 You are a prophet; knowing exactly what my comment will be. Unfortunately you do not refute my comment, but carefully beat around the bush, with a lot of bullshit. Talking about hitler, if you believe the bible ( the O.T.) hitler was a pusssy-cat compared to this loving heavenly father.
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon =
You know the WORST part about my loving heavenly Father? Those who reject and mock the Son he provided to pay for YOUR sins make him very angry. There's a reason why scripture says "it is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God". Hitler was a demon-possessed maniac, the God of Heaven makes the rules, like 'em or not.
Mock, scoff, and have your fun now...your payday is coming as sure as tomorrow's sunrise.
tigerlilly66 1 year ago
@tigerlilly66 Your silly threats are rather laughable.. Why don`t you pick up a science book for a change.
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon =
You think I'm "threatening" you? Shows how clueless you truly are...I was WARNING you...a HUGE difference. Ever seen the "no fear" bumper stickers that so many like to show off? The one I like best is the one that says "fear GOD". He's the ONLY one anyone need fear, and only a FOOL refuses to do so.
BTW - the Bible is not a science textbook, but where it speaks of scientific things, it does so perfectly.I could cite several examples, but why should I? You couldn't care less.
tigerlilly66 1 year ago
@tigerlilly66 ; Spread the fear: Nice way to live; LOL As for science in the bible, it is 6th grade. Exactly what one would expect from an educated goat-herder 3.000 years ago.
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon = Unfortunately, I always arrive at the point at which I am now when dealing with your crowd...continue what is clearly an unfruitful "discussion", or put it to rest and move on. Your repeated comments make it fairly clear to me that the latter choice is appropriate. I say this with no rancor, but with sadness at the hardness of your heart.
Proverbs 8:36, 9:7-8; Matthew 7:6
I will stand innocent of your blood at the Judgment Seat (Ezekiel 33)
Goodbye...there's STILL time to repent!
tigerlilly66 1 year ago
@tigerlilly66 ;--Goodbye...there's STILL time to repent!-- Goodbye: It``s still time to use reason, common sense and logic.
lizazoon 1 year ago
6) created a world in spite of knowing there would be pain and suffering, when paradise already existed.
7) Baby murderer
8) Torturer
9) Deciever
etc.etc.etc
danielfochtman 1 year ago
And Lee, people don't usually question the historical accuracies in the bible, as it was primarily a Jewish Historical account. It's the supernatural they question.
Why i won't praise the old testament God.
1) He commanded women to be raped and kidnapped.
2) He committed Genocide (more than once)
3) He had a man blood sacrifice his virgin daughter against his will.
4) Throwing stones at rebellious kids till they died was ok.
5) Cheating women get killed but cheating men nothing.
danielfochtman 1 year ago
@danielfochtman half of this is just lies
the1qb 1 year ago
@the1qb Would you mind proving your point ? It`s all in the bible.
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon He took everything out of context and there was no rape command
the1qb 1 year ago
@the1qb The USUAL christian cover-up.. OUT OF CONTEXT. When will you ever face reality. The OT. is the most exhalted accumulation of nonsense ever assembled by man.
lizazoon 1 year ago
Nothing ever has been found to disproove anything in the bible???
1) geological column. We have found PILES of dinosaur bones, yet they are never mixed with modern animals. If the flood happened, Dinosaur and horse bones would be mixed, there would be shark skeletons on mountaintops etc...
2) Radiometric Dating. (not to be confused with Carbon dating)
3) Man cannot live in Fish
4) Not one documented miracle since the invention of Cameras that hasn't been a hoax.
danielfochtman 1 year ago
@danielfochtman
its points like these that make people focus on the new testament. remember, Jesus said nothing of the old testament, he just taught stuff.
VegasSkateCulture 1 year ago
@VegasSkateCulture
Read your new testament, please! Jesus quoated the old testament time and time, again!
MsPatriceG 1 year ago
@MsPatriceG The Old-Testament is the greatest accumulation of nonsense ever assembled by man.
lizazoon 1 year ago
@lizazoon The Old Testament states that matter can neither be created nor destroyed. (Ecclesiastes 3:14-15) Complete rubbish....
MustangsCanTurnToo 1 year ago
@VegasSkateCulture Jesus referred to the old testament numerous times. Read the Bible.
MustangsCanTurnToo 1 year ago
@danielfochtman
1) Some modern animals have been around since prehistoric times.
2) The Heavens and Earth were created in "7 days" How long is a "day" to a being that is timeless or before the Sun or Eath were created? A billion years? 40 Billion? Does it matter?
3) Whale, not a fish...hard to live in those too, I got nothing :)
4) "Miracle" as Baby Begins Breathing after Two Hours. Happened in August. Google it.
MustangsCanTurnToo 1 year ago
@MustangsCanTurnToo
1) as one would expect with evolution
2) How long is a day to Moses, who wrote Genesis. God even said, The sun and the moon seperate day from night, so i think a day is just that. A day.
3) Whale vs. Fish....lost in translation.
4) Only on christian websites? Why hasn't the scientific communities picked up on this to study this miracle? 1) it was a misdiagnosis and 2) the child was braindamaged as expected when you can't breathe for extended periods of time.
danielfochtman 1 year ago
@danielfochtman
1) stasis is anti evolution.
2) Go back to the Hebrew. The word "yom" has been translated into "day" which has many different meanings.
3) I guess. Never studied that one much.
4) the child was dead. for another miracle, look at everything. Creation/Big Bang/ origin of the universe has been scientifically proven to be a miracle.
MustangsCanTurnToo 1 year ago
Embarassing aspects of people's lives sell stories. If we were to use Mr. Strobel's logic on matters, we should find soap operas and tabloids to be some of the most reliable information in the universe.
scythiconatron 1 year ago
@scythiconatron
He simply asked the most common questions that people have about the Bible and the had biblical scholars answer it instead of watching National Geographic and hearing views that are not bilbical, usually secular. If you think he is a an idiot then good for you, his documentary(Case for christ) is for anyone that has no clue how dense the evidence is for scripture. He was a skeptic who actually asked bilbical scholars about the bible, which most people rarely do. Stop judging.
yobro3535 1 year ago
@yobro3535 He claims that stories about people that are embarrassing are evidence that the Bible is accurate. Soap operas and tabloids depend on embarrassing stories.
In regard to "Stop judging", no.
scythiconatron 1 year ago
"Nothing has ever been found that disproves anything in the Bible and if something was found, it would be bigger than the Da Vinci Code!" Geez---the Israelis found no evidence of a settlement at Bethlehem in Judea prior to 1000 AD, bu Bethlehem in Galilee was a thriving Roman center 500 yrs before the birth of the Nazarene...and considering that the DaVinci Code is a proven hoax, what does that say about the bible?
dogsisiht 1 year ago
Additionally, Lee Strobel, a failed hack journalist, lacks even the most minimal credentials to speak not only of archeology, but of basically anything other than he own monumental ego and utter ignorance of science. Strobel is less truthful than Kent Hovind, Eric Hovind, Benny Hinn, Janet Folger, Billy Crone, and Ken Ham put together.
dogsisiht 1 year ago
@dogsisiht The DaVinci Code is fiction. I'm quite certain, that there is little evidence if any to disprove the majority of all fiction.
scythiconatron 1 year ago
@Benjiro1234
I am much more interested in the fact
'that you choose to not respond
when your assertions are shown to be erroneous.
Inadvertent duplications are nothing.
Deliberate avoidance of the truth is something else.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Benjiro1234
"I believe in evolution just not abiogeneis. "Fine.
Wonderful.
I hope you have a fine day for it.
Why do you assume that your personal beliefs interest me?
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Imaginefree69 funny for all you so called athiest just how very intrested you all are in videos about God now why is that ya think hum? Me thinks you protest tooooooooooooo much maybe the real truth is you realy want God but your just not sure how to get to Him hu? Very easy fix.......... just talk to Him I swear He'll answer you back :D.
RUR482i 1 year ago
@RUR482i "Me thinks you protest tooooooooooooo much"
That's a valid observation
but, like many assumptions, is clarified by the entrance of facts.
I was a pastor and Bible teacher for over 40 years.
Now that I have escaped the delusion and embraced reason and reality, I feel it is my moral obligation to make some restitution by shining the light of TRUTH on the EXIT for any who may be seeking it.
I am ill and in pain and get no pleasure from being insulted and cursed daily, but it's my duty.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
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@Imaginefree69 funny for all you so called athiest just how very intrested you all are in videos about God now why is that ya think hum? Me thinks you protest tooooooooooooo much maybe the real truth is you realy want God but your just not sure how to get to Him hu? Very easy fix.......... just talk to Him I swear He'll answer you back :D.
RUR482i 1 year ago
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@Benjiro1234
"If it was so easy to create life it would be on every planet."
You are assuming that every planet is amenable to life.
In other words, you are displaying in public
the very ignorance you keep denying.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Benjiro1234
" History is written by the victors. "
Some of it is.
I suppose archaeology is arranged by the victors as well?
You are pretending that I mentioned only one source.
Please recall that none of the other gospels recorded this massacre,
and that Luke's gospel, the most educated and coherent,
records the early history of Jesus
and makes Matthew's lie impossible.
Christians believe what they want to.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Benjiro1234
"People remember what they want to."
And they believe what they want to.
Xians make much hay over the brief
and dubious reference to Jesus in Josephus,
but they ignore the fact that Josephus failed to mention
a mass murder of children during Herod's reign.
They point gleefully at a few cave paintings of dinosaurs,
but ignore paintings of minotaur and the goddess Diana.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Benjiro1234
Why are you even saying this to me again and again?
I was talking to tigerlilly,
not making claims about your personal beliefs.
The Bible is NOT an historical document, though.
It is a collection of Bronze-Age fairy tales.
There is no historical or archaeological support for even the most important stories, such as the Creation, the Exodus, the birth of Jesus,
the Crucifixion, and so on.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
what a joke
EnlightenU 1 year ago
As a fellow journalist, stroebel should be ashamed. He is using one sided sources. This is the first thing you are taught not do as a professional journalist. Then he uses his creds to persuade people of how he is right....well of course a bunch of christian archeologists are going to think the New Testament is accurate....what about all the other archeologists? what do they say? one word for you Strobo..."BIASED"
danielfochtman 1 year ago
@danielfochtman =
On the other hand, YOU are of course completely honest, above reproach, intellectual, and free from any bias or pre-conception about anything! How fortunate indeed we are to have you wisdom and insights to study and learn from!
Pass the bread...the baloney has already been around.
tigerlilly66 1 year ago
@tigerlilly66
Wow, what a fine christian you are. Thank you for the insult. I merely pointed out that lee strobel uses anti-journalist tactics, but uses his title of journalist to gain creedence....am i wrong?
And you reply with insults. Typical christian. When you go to heaven, make sure to tell god it was people like you that made people like me not even consider his existence.
And what are you, Lee's wife? i see you are slamming everyone on here that doesn't agree with him.
danielfochtman 1 year ago
@Benjiro1234 Science has nothing to do with "magic". Theory can mean an "idea" in everyday life. However, a scientific theory never means an "idea". Scientific theory means something that has been tested over and over and still holds true. So the theory of evolution has been tested by everyone for 150 years (including lee strobel, discovery institute,etc) and still holds absolutely true given all information available. If you doubt that, you doubt it out of lack of information/education.
Information39 1 year ago
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Information39 1 year ago
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
Lee Strobel said certain things couldnt be made through evolution in the "Case for the Creator". This is the basis for his and Behe's "intelligent design" group. They went to court with this argument and were proven wrong. Watch "judgement day:intelligent design on trial'. Worse yet, the ID group was said to have testified inconsistantly or lied outright. There were calls to bring perjury charges against them. Lee's ideas were proven wrong in court, enough said.
Information39 1 year ago
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Imaginefree69 = Indeed, I will examine this "evidence of deceit" and judge for myself. As for Wilder-Smith, Hovind, Wyatt, and Comfort, I am unaware of the "lies" that you say they tell in large numbers. Even if you can conclusively prove that this has occurred, it does NOTHING to change the truth of Scripture, nor of the validity of the Young Earth Creationist position. One of the basics of apologetics is that truth is open to falsification, as you are claiming here. Got the "goods" for us?
tigerlilly66 1 year ago
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Imaginefree69 =
As I said I would do, I viewed the entire 12 episodes of the video, and took notes throughout. I suspected that NOVA would take a strongly pro-evolution position, and that was evident quickly and consistently during the production. If Tiktaalic and Archaeopteryx are the BEST that evolution can produce as "evidence" for Darwin, I'm sure my friends at ICR (Institute for Creation Research) had a hearty laugh at that! Pascal had it right, it's NEVER been about the evidence.
tigerlilly66 1 year ago
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Imaginefree69 1 year ago
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Imaginefree69 I know of Ron Wyatt. He faked 18 discoveries including Noahs Ark, Ark of the covenant, wheel from chariots in the red sea, etc. All of which christians still point to as evidence even though his own church calls him a fraud. Thanks for the other names, I will look into them as well.
Information39 1 year ago
@Information39
One of the most entertaining is Ray Comfort,
who doesn't even realize that evolution
applies only to living organisms.
Precipitated by your words "the other names",
I typed "creationist lies" into Google
and it looks like the sources
are numerous and well documented.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@Information39 =
Can you be just a TAD bit more specific about your "proof" that Strobel is a liar?
There are at least 4 differing versions of the source you cite, and up to 12 separate sub-sections to wade through.
I'll take a flyer here and venture to say that no such "proof" exists. Will follow up when I've see it all.
tigerlilly66 1 year ago
@tigerlilly66 Thanks for watching Judgement Day: Intelligent Design on trial. Yes, it is 12 parts and opens with a sign saying dover in the first seconds of it. You get to see how one of Strobels ideas, the bacteria flagellum arguement holds up with scientists present in a court(even with a religious judge). Lee preached this in the case for a creator (book and dvd). You also get to see how the discovery institute operates (Which Strobel and behe are a part of).
Information39 1 year ago
@tigerlilly66 If you want to see second by second places where Lee Strobel is incorrect about science watch "critical analysis of lee strobles a case for the creator." I know, 2 videos to watch. However, my gf and I watched over 100 videos last winter on both sides of the issue. I wouldnt ask someone to do something I havent. Netflix addict. lol. Seemed one side was saying one thing and the other was saying the opposite. I think Judgement Day sorts some of that out.
Information39 1 year ago
God does exist.
SummerSunshine1988 1 year ago
It's amazing all the nay-sayers don't refute one single thing said in this video. They can't. So the bring up other topics. Sounds like a bunch of "yeah, but... yeah, but..." heads.
EffieReal 1 year ago
He only tells half the truth. Most scholars agree that the census according to Luke to which Strobel refers wouldn't have applied to Joseph because he wasn't a Roman citizen. And moreover, it is ridiculous to think that, if it had happened, he would have to travel to Bethlehem.
pppz0r 1 year ago
I doubt it. Most Christians will always believe whatever I guy with mic tells
Blueicm 1 year ago
Amazing how he can twist the facts around, and the sheepel will never know.
gregrutz 1 year ago
Listening to Christians ON ANYTHING historical, BAD IDEA.
gokebe 1 year ago 2
@gokebe hmmm the war of 1812 started in 1812 guess im wrong
DeJay14 1 year ago
Doesn't archeological findings prove Adam and Even never existed? And if so 'original sin' never existed. And therefore Jesus died for nothing. But it's okay, Jesus was not the messiah. The Messiah is a guy from Bethlehem called Immanuel. Not Jesus, from Nazareth that got to Bethlehem in two different accounts and oh by the way, the angel said "Call him Jesus, but um .. um Immanuel too. The evidence is against the Bible.
Killjeser 1 year ago
for imaginefree69, pity you!!!you're a lost soul!!!as if like of this example:if a pastor says repent of your sexual immoralities,imaginefree69 says i won't co'z you don't have proof or evidence that i did sexual intercourse or ( 69 )then later imaginefree69 would watch porn thinking that the pastor wouldn't see him watching 69,just like his youtube title imaginefree 69
MrBenoemi 1 year ago
@MrBenoemi
As the Bible says,
"Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled."
The "Imagine" in my username comes from John Lennon's song.
The "69" refers to 1969, the summer of love,
the year that Imagine was released.
How sad to have such a juvenile, dark mind.
How typical to embrace that darkness as moral superiority.
Imaginefree69 1 year ago
@ Imaginefree69
I urge you so much to actually research the evidence for the new testament. there is more evidence for the new testament than any other historical piece we naturally take as truth from that period. For eg, Caesar Gallic wars. Sadly, I don't really have the character counter necessary to really mount an argument in one text box/comment so i just ask you to watch the video series on youtube or buy the book: The case for Christ.
klstevens94 2 years ago
Where is the archaeological or historical evidence
for the slaughter of the firstborn of Egypt?
Or for the much more recent slaughter of baby boys
in Judea, under Herod?
Isn't it odd that Josephus and his peers
could tell us what kind of cup Herod drank from,
but didn't notice the wholesale government slaughter of babies?
The Bible is a book of bronze-age myth.
Nothing more.
Imaginefree69 2 years ago
The answer is simple as to why God had a society and their children wiped out...When you went to war...Especially in ancient times, if you left the seed of the enemy alive and any of their relatives...They would raise their children to hate the ones who conquered them and instill in them revenge...If you leave the children alive then it's logical to understand they do grow up to become a man and they will one day wield a sword...No seed left from a culture means no future conflict with them.
littlefoot1400 2 years ago
The evidence is clear and unmistakable to anyone without an a priori...a pre-conceived attitute AGAINST belief in the veracity and authenticity of the not just the New Testament, but the whole of Christian doctrine and belief.
The old adage certainly plays out here -
"A man convinced AGAINST HIS WILL, is of the same opinion still".
It's not that people CAN'T believe the evidence for the Christian faith, but that they WON'T !
John 3:19...read it for yourself !
tigerlilly66 2 years ago
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