@ratm8877 so let me get this straight if a christian does anything wrong they are not a real christian?Thats a crock.this is the arrogance of christians in general,everytime a christian does something terrible other christians will say well they were not a real christian to begin with,as if all true christians are perfect and no 1 else is.
I know I'm gonna sound sick but... These Children are the next generation of those wacko's... Is it really a bad thing, less of them grow up to have kids of their own?
The question of religion is life or death throughout history and theists ask why we care about their religious beliefs. Your bronze age myths oppress and hold back the entire species. The god myth has destroyed civilizations, cost countless lives and retarded human progress and happiness for millenia. Religion must go or the species is doomed!
it is sad that this crap is going on in the usa it is a damn shame&it is stupid my mom is a baptist right wing bla bla bla u get the idea she has been a nurse for 20years&has no reservations whatsoever about taking us to the doctor so why dont it click with this group of morons ?
Reminds me of the Vegans... there are some nut job Vegans who feed their kids soy milk because they either can't produce enough breast milk because of their own diets, or because they class their own milk as animal products...
"I wonder why my baby is underweight and sick?" god damn, and then the poor kids die of malnutrition.
You are right, this is dangerous! My aunt decided that if she prays to god then her diabetes will go away, and she no longer even checks her blood sugar level... Because my aunt decided to quit, my father also decided to quit...It is really annoying...
I am very glad to see these nuts getting what's due them. I am in full favor of letting the adults die, but I'm so glad to see laws passed to protect their children from their religion.
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness and don't do blood transfusions as mentioned, they do most medical care though. I knew a couple that had 3kids and twins. The twins were born early and needed a blood transfusion, they wouldn't give it to them. Hospital went to the courts but it was too late. Another couple I know were in a very similar situation, they weren't firm believers and later left the JWs but they gave their twins the transfusions, they lived. I will never understand them...ever.
the retarded christian community think oh its a win win situation if they live they can grow up but if they die its alright they will just go to God har har har. Though the way we see it (logically) is life or death.
The afterlife is one of my top things i despise that has come from religion.
Nice diversion King. I never claimed what you want me to do. You won't site a source for Herod in the other post; that is hypocritical. My mock scenario proves the real one horrific due to their similarity. Yet, you call pointing out a similar scenario a mere play on emotion. Well, you got me there. Your materialistic / atheistic world view may help you burry your emotion when considering the murder of babies, my world view leaves me no room for such a severe neglect of ethics.
I used to believe in leaving the religious people alone, but they won't leave me or others alone, and the xtians, eg, cannot stop hating and endulging in talk that hurts others, gays for example.
If you do respond to the texts below, please address the scenerio of a baby born one minute pre-mature and the partial birth abortion scenerio. If two babies were the same age and one was forced to undergo partial birth abortion and the other born and terminated one minute later, what is the difference? Also, I am waiting to see if you can admit you were wrong about claiming I was trying to make this a mind change scenerio. I will probably wait forever for such a confession though.
I had this in my response before, but I ran out of room...like nearly every doctor on the planet, unless it's medically necessary, I don't support abortion after the start of the 2nd trimester...I AM NOT in FAVOR of abortion...unlike what you think...I'm just not in a position where I feel I should push my determination over someone else's in this case. HOWEVER, in the case of a born child that is even old enough to ASK for help...there is no way anyone should be defending it as you appear to.
IF YOU ARE READING THIS, BELOW IS A QUESTION THE "KING" REFUSES TO ANSWER. THIS IS BECAUSE IT EXPOSES THE DOUBLE STANDARDS HE HOLDS. :)
Hey Heathen. If a woman had a partial birth abortion, would this be as sad an incident as the faith healers who killed their child? What do you think? I was just wondering. Thanks for your posts. You express your views well.
LMAO!!!!!! Lee, you know good and damn well that I told you in a private message two days ago that I wasn't ignoring you, I just haven't gotten a chance to come back to your comments. And now that I have and I see what a BITCH ASS you are being...I'm tempted to just ignore you. PLEASE, get over yourself. Your question is irrelevant but I'll still answer it.
King, sorry man. For real, our conversation came after I posted this. Sorry man. I thought you were ignoring me, that is why I contacted you. I posted this first, then contacted you second. I am over myself, trust me I believe I am a wicked, evil person that makes choices based on selfishness. That is truly what I believe myself to be naturally. So, there really was never much to get over. IF ANYONE IS READING THIS, I contaced King after this, he was not ignoring me, I was wrong; he was busy.
My message went out to you two days ago. Earlier today it said this message was here one day ago. Looks like the "48 hours" passed by since then...regardless, I think it's a bit overbearing to have posted this and THEN ask me...seems the better idea would have been the opposite order. I'm sure we agree on that now...so it's cool, apology accepted.
Since this is where the anticipated question is to address, can we keep the posts on this video. We have too many coversations floating around. I seriously am curious about a comparison between parents who killed thier children by neglect rooted in their religion and parents who have chosen partial birth abortion in the past. Have they committed similar errors? What do you think? I think comparing these two scenerious is benefical in a dialog between theists and atheists in exposing our stances
Close family of mine are Jehova's Witnesses and have admitted that they'd let their young child die instead of getting a transfusion. I just haven't really thought about it until now.
Hey Heathen. If a woman had a partial birth abortion, would this be as sad an incident as the faith healers who killed their child? What do you think? I was just wondering. Thanks for your posts. You express your views well.
No, I would not say that it was as sad and for a very good reason. Let's take both situations in their purest forms. The faith healers let a child old enough to know, feel, think, etc suffer slowly as that child died. That child had many options that could have helped them live. The abortion happened BEFORE any central nervous system activity occurs. The options were still there, but apparently, after weighing these options, termination of the pregnancy was the best of these options.
Now, by comparison...the faith healers THOUGHT they were doing the best option that would lead to their child getting well...and they were wrong and instead signed their own child's death warrant. THIS child was wanted, had a home, was capable of being cared for and COULD HAVE gone on to live a happy and healthy life. The aborted child's outlook wasn't so bright, which is most likely why the abortion took place.
Thanks for the response. While you are appalled at the religious parent's choice, I am appalled at what I see as a double standard. First, there is medical evidence that a fetus can feel pain. The most liberal dating for pain experience being after 22 weeks of gestational age. It is wicked for the religious parents you mentioned and for those who pursued partial birth abortion, to kill their children.
In partial birth abortion, a blade is injected into the baby's skull. It is pulled out, feet first, then, with the head still in, it is stabbed in the skull. That is graphic, but true. If it is okay to murder a baby whose head is out of the womb, then, logically it must be okay to do it to a child who is completely out the womb for a minute. Would you answer these: Would it be okay to terminate a baby who had been born for one minute? If not, why?
let's consider a situation where I see this as a necessary alternative:
Mother is trying to deliver the child, but the delivery isn't going well. The mother and child are in tremendous jeopardy of BOTH dying. The only possible thing that the doctors can do at this point is to terminate the child to save the mother or they lose both.
While you attempt to make it sound like this is something that involves a mother in labor who suddenly changes her mind...that's simply NOT the case.
You said I tried to make this sound like something about a mother changing her mind, I NEVER SAID THAT. Can you admit you made a wrong assumption? Humans have removed their own children virtually free from the womb and requested doctors to stab the baby in the back of the head. It is not a mind change, it is a calculated murder. If there is a medical reason for partial birth abortion, that is one thing. Yet, is has been used as birth control by some. I say its just as sad as your video account
Further more, this was all to lead to a point about double standards. You are appaulled that religious teachings lead to a murder. I am appaulled that a baby being stabbed in the back of the head is seen as a right by many athiests I know. Yet, I am not surprised. It is consistent with their world views. You avoided the 1 minute baby death because it is clear that if you embrace one, you must embrace the other. There is a connection between superstition and the religious parents poor choice.
And there is a link to your athiestic worldview and your embracement that partial birth abortion is not as SAD as the death of the child mentioned in your video. Bottom line, the baby is not as valuable as the teen. I firmly disagree. Both were equally valuable lives.
It looks like a materialistic, atheistic view can lead to a logical apathy to some murders and a superstitious, religious view can lead to an murder as well. Point: both world views helped humans rationalize the murder. If partial birth abortion isn't murder, what on earth is? And if it is not murder, exposure should not be either since both terminate a "fetus" within a similar time frame.
I'm not wrong about that assumption because you did in fact do that, the text is evidence of it.
Sight a source where a doctor has stabbed a birthed baby in the back of the head. If you don't have one then you just proved that I was right that you are overstating this. PLUS, that wouldn't be an "abortion" as the pregnancy ended with a birth.
I think claiming you can't "push your views" on somebody is a cop-out. I believe murder is wrong and partial abortion = murder. I never claimed my scenerio exists; I claimed it was just like partial birth abortion minus 1 minute. I did not offer a straw man; passivity toward abortion is as dangerous as positively pursuing it in my opinion. Yet, it is only an opinion. Similar cases are ALWAYS relevant to ethical questions. Yet, exposure is still practiced today. Especially to girls.
Point being, if you would not be passive in helping a premature baby to NOT be stabbed; why is it okay as long as the head is in the vagina? In my opinion, if you embrace one, you have to embrace the other. Also, if one is horrific, both are horrific. I know what a straw man is, and I know when somebody throws out the phrase as a diversion.
then if you can't sight a SINGLE INSTANCE where this happened, then I assume it's the same bullshit propaganda that people from the religious persuasion tend to often use to make a point that doesn't exist to play on emotion.
@Lee8981 where does it even talk about abortion in the bible?It doesnt.With what we know now it isnt until the 5th or 6th week that a baby is fully formed in the womb,I could be wrong on the timeline.I personally believe as an athiest that if a woman is going to die in childbirth,or if she is a rape victim,abortion is right.But 2 grown adults who don't want children should take responsibility and use protection to not get pregnant.In the latter case I believe abortion is wrong
I am referring to 1st trimester pregnancies. Bottom line is that I don't think that abortion should be an option you take lightly...but I also don't think it's an option you have the right to take away from someone.
22 Weeks was the MOST LIBERAL DATING. In other words, it is the latest date many give for pain experience. Many doctors, some I know personally, claim it is possible and likely before this date.
chasington89: Yup. You're right. I am a weak and stupid individual for living my life the way that I did. But the way that you feel about a 15 mo. old dying at the hands of stupid parents is not going to prove that God does not care, it only proves that you are trying to judge God based on your emotions. And I could care less that you don't believe that He healed me. You don't want to believe it, and I could just care less how much you hate me for saying that He did. Willfully ignorant, you are.
Once, I wasn't a Christian. I drank,smoked, and had sex w/everything. I got an std when I was 18, which I passed on to others. Folks, genital herpes is incurable. I had it for 9 years before I became a Christian and asked God to heal that, and He did. Genital herpes was the result of the sinful lifestyle that I had lived back then. It burned and itched like you can't imagine. (Unless you have it.) God still heals and forgives. You should trust Jesus and turn your life away from sin to find out.
absolutely right friend. miracles, blessings, answered prayers in your life, mine, and others.
many times also though, people have misfortunate experiences to look to the better things as the Lord works in mysterious ways, and its hard to know how he may work each time. =D have a good day.
This is why he ends every one of his videos with "Don't take my word for it, think for yourself". The example you just gave isn't proof it just shows you are a weak and stupid individual without the ability to fix your own life yourself. Are you saying that God chose to fix your little disease from your own stupid mistakes but chose to let a 15 month old girl die who did nothing wrong? I can't stress enough how stupid and deluded you, or anyone else who believes in your story, is. You are sin.
WTF?! Dude, go to a research institute: you should show everyone that you don't have Herpes anymore. And isn't it great you can have sex again? Wow. (I think you just don't have outbursts).
Exactly, herpes doesn't have a cure, but you can go quite a while without showing any symptoms. Go get tested, yawn...you'll see. And if you ARE cured, then it's probably something the REST OF THE WORLD should know about. You should go get tested and have them research WHY you were cured. Because as much as others have tried...Prayer just doesn't seem to work in any version of consistency.
Very sad. These folks were all stupid. If these were treatable illnesses - GO TO A DOCTOR! In cases where there is a cure available and someone refuses it, they are STUPID! It's in the cases where there is not a known cure that you would want to pray. If there is no cure, then only God can help in such a situation, but God created everything for our use and benefit. If a cure can be obtained naturally, then there is no need for a miracle healing. Duh.
i had similar experiences through prayer with warts, drugs, and more recently testicular cancer which was very fortunate giving the time between finding out cancer was present to the time it was surgically removed was only a little under a week. we are humbled in many ways.
yawn...I appreciate that you started your comments by admitting that these people have issues. Thank you for that. I wish more religious people on my channel would just admit when other people do stupid things in the name of their religion regardless of which religion we are talking about...
I take exception with your idea of "praying for incurable diseases"...but I'll leave that alone for now.
Don't expect God to answer any prayer. Christians describe God as omnipresent and eternal. Therefore he knows everything we've ever done in the past and everything we'll do in the future. So, what are the implications of praying to such a God? It's ludicrous for you to tell an all-powerful God, who has a perfect plan for you how to run your life, and to expect him to change his will to accommodate your prayers. Others should know that it's unsound to expect such a God to answer petitions.
And, how does one know whether he or she is praying w/in God's will? If I pray for a terminally ill person, how can I know whether it is God's will for that person to live or to die? After all, everyone has his appointed time to pass on to the next life. If I'm praying, night and day, for a terminally ill person to be healed and it is not in God's will to heal the person, am I not wasting my time?
Ur videos and the point you make have gotten much better since I watched you a year ago. I haven't kept up. Happiness does help health but that only goes so far. Prayer is a wishful thought.
People who claim to be psychic hardly know what's going on NOW. We have ghosts aka politicians. You can see them and hear them but they're not real... like church. Speaking of, don't let my username fool u. I feel that I recognize what most people don't/won't. So do you.
ya religion is crap. it's the relationship we have with God that matters. i think the parents did go too far. yes ur supposed to pray and let him take care of it..but also, he put medicines and docters here for a reason also. and the whole gay bashing, and whatever else was said against religion is also crap. one sin is no greater than another...i also believe everyone can make their own choices and i wont hold it against them unless it does me harm in some way...
You know it's funny that you guys are balling all people of religion into one lump. Some cult that refuses medical treatment, terrorists that die for their god? What does that have to do with normal religious people? Should I find a crazy atheist and say that all atheists are crazy? It's fucking retarded!
"What does that have to do with normal religious people?"
I have to agree. So far, I've found that the majority of people aren't interested in any of these atrocities being committed in the name of their religion.
I have to give props to Christians and Jews for speaking out against some of the more fanatical aspects of their religious belief (Muslims have yet to really get on board with this one). And most of them accept I have no belief myself and don't treat me like I have horns on my head.
When did I or anyone else say "all people of religion"? I showed an example of religion bad horribly wrong. Why don't you simply agree with me? This event show NEVER happen. Do you agree or are you just here to argue?
If these people honest to goodness think they're doing the right thing, why do their kids keep dieing?? Do they think stillborns often is a common thing? If they think they're right shouldn't we be getting stillborns and sick dieing children??
Further, you claim that Christians DON'T tell these parents that they're wrong? That's absurd. Many Christian theologists have made remarks critical of faith-healing including Robert Saucy, Don Carson, Richard Gaffin, etc. ALL deaths are regretable and unnecessary but they ARE rare. A UCSD study found 172 U.S. child deaths from faithhealing families from 1975 to 1995, and fewer still since the laws you've noted that have been passed, fewer than 10 per year. More kids die crossing the street.
Ditto. Sceptics have no CLUE how annoying it is to watch Pentecostals rant against and sneer at other conservative, even fundamentalist denominations for being apostate and unbelieving, only to see them make a mess that WE get blamed for by "free thinkers" who haven't bothered to do their homework on historical theology or current developments in global Christianity.
There's a lot more damage than 10 kids. I guarentee it. Just because mainstream chistianity generally believes things to be different in that case doesn't mean that it's right. Mainstream christianity is just stupid. I don't understand why you guys believe at all you don't do shit and don't follow the rules until they are "convenient for you guys" and are so passive about your religion you might as well not believe. Then someone talks about it and all of a sudden they start talking about faith
I think it is *probable* that more than 10 die per year. In a follow-up of the study Dirk cited, Rita Swan (2000) said that officials in OR released information on 90 children who had died between 1955 and 1998 in the local Followers of Christ Church. These deaths were only discovered recently because of faith healing groups' tendencies to keep the facts to themselves. Swan believes this suggests that the 172 deaths she and Asser analyzed in 1998 were a mere fraction of true national totals.
However, to say that you can *guarantee* there have been more deaths is gratuitous rhetoric. Moreover, the accusation is that "mainstream Christianity" is passive, not active, in its opposition to presumptive faith healing is preposterous and personally offensive. Two of my own fellow UAB students terminated their friendship with me after I expressed my opposition to their faith healing theology. STOP begging the question on issues you don't understand.
i think you're partcially right.(as far as i'm concerned)although,there was a time when i tried to be completly faithful to God.i used to do everything i could to stay true to HIS word. then along came satan and i started to enjoy the ungodly pleasures of the world.i still have faith,but just like the law of this land, rules are made to be broken.and i don't believe you're statement applies to every christian. their are those who do their best to stay true to HIM.
KH, my only argument is that you're pointing out some VERY extreme cases where parents deny medical care to their children based upon their brand of faith using ONLY prayer. This is NOT anywhere near mainstream thought. Frankly, there are many more cases of neglect that have noting to do with faith. Certainly this kind of extremism is severe and hardly Biblical, but you also fail to mention patheistic faiths or spiritualism that have also rejected medical care.
i mean ....what does found god mean to you...i guess if you ever have a thought of god it makes you a non-practicing Christians i guess that put's atheist in that catalog
bobcat...SURELY, you don't deny that there are people that call themselves Christians put don't follow the teachings of the religion...are you REALLY trying to portray yourself as that naive?
why don't you do a story about that boy with cancer that had his organs transplant into other people by doctors because of that those people got cancer and die
plus when i was a kid i was rush to the hospital and had to wait for hour when i was cut and bleeding like a stuck hog then when they got around to see me i quit beelding i could die because of the hospital
they were what you might consider "non-practicing" Christians (79%)...check any poll you like on that. They don't go into prison and CONVERT to a religion...they just increase their religiosity in their existing religion.
another great vid, 5 stars. I feel sick when i think of 'faith healing parents' .. let some poor baby die from a simple affliction, by praying to nothing rather than simply taking them to the doctor...
I hope in this case the woman will be treated and then let free or at least in a relatively free state like a low security mental facility where the patients can leave with ppl and do normal things. Because most likely she wouldnt have hurt anyone if she had been properly looked after and medicated. Medicine, for all its flaws, can do wonderful things and it will keep getting better and better.
Anything that stops the free flowing of knowledge and puts labels on children is evil and should be stopped. We don't need this kind of excuse to attack religion, but the crazies help out the cause.
I told my girlfriend about this(who is a christian) and she said there stupid, your suppose to meet god half way. I guess thats her way of justifying not praying to get better and trusting medicine.
a 11 year old died in wisconsin where im from about 1 week ago. She had diabetes and her mom prayed for her to get better instead of taking her to doctor. Her church even prayed over the phone to the sick girl. The police are still deciding whether to press charges. the church said they have prayed for others and they got better so they feel they are in the right.
Of course they do. Deluded fucktards. My mother says that god gave us doctors with the knowledge to help people so we should use them. She says by all means pray, but god wants us to use common sense too. *Sigh* Christians (here included) will say ANYTHING to justify there beliefs. Shes trusted god to take care of things like colds and shit before and then praises Jebus when they go away. Of course they went away. they were temporary problems to begin with. ugh...
thats funny, because theres also a case of two vegan parents in georgia, who attempted to raise their child on a vegan diet, and when the child died, they were both charged with manslaughter, and 1st degree murder for not seeking medical attention when the child was malnourished. that came with a long jail sentence. but i guess since this particular account youre talking about had something to do with Christianity, its not as bad. it makes me sick.
There was also the case of religiously fanatical parents, who fed their baby only watermelons and (I think) cucumbers because they thought that he was the reincarnation of Jesus. And they were suposidly shocked at their baby's death and refused to believe that it was their fault...
pray them to health....are you kidding me you can pray to win the lotto you can pray to get a job but dont pray for a life it WONT WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
what do u mean when u say we need to do something about them? i agree abotu religion being a cancer to society but whats the solution ban religion? censor it so they can't practice half their beleifs?
Why does "do something" automatically imply violen government action to you. Merely by promoting rationality (do whatever degree we do) we are doing something. Also, consider that individual actions (the only kinds of actions that exist) of defending others are justified.
For some reason the video cuts out after three minutes for me.
But for all those who let their children die while they sit and pray, ever hear that saying "god helps those who help themselves." Well get off your butts and help your children to some damn medical treatment. Stop being so damn lazy by expecting god to fix all your problems for you. Try fixing your own problems. Bunch of damn idiots.
natural selection in action...now if they would just do themselves in.
Child services shoulda yanked those kids out.
It sounds mean but children raised by people like these will become them.....abusing some more kids. Maybe we will get lucky and someone will shank em in jail.
According to Mathew, Jesus said: he who is not ill has no need of a physician.
The implication clearly being that Jesus believed the sick DO need a physician, and I cannot see how anyone can use Christianity to justify medical neglect.
The heads of the churches and the leaders of these heinous groups of imbiciles should be prosicuted as well for this totally idiotic and unnecesary series of deaths related to this nonsensical belief system.
How can you charge people with being stupid and brainwashed? I think the preacher leading the congregation should be held accountable too, unless he directly advised them to send the kid to a doctor.
I mean.. a couple still born babies.. a couple of dead kids due to easily fixable illnesses OH WELL. As long as they are against a woman's choice to choose, they deserve a thumbs up to me.
This would have been the perfect opportunity for "god" to prove himself... all he had to do was heal that little baby. Oh wait, I almost forgot.. god fell asleep at the wheel thousands of years ago, allowing millions of innocent deaths over the years.
I CANNOT WAIT for religion itself to die a horrible death... it's time to move forward, and leave all this superstitious bullshit in the dark ages.
I WATCHED THAT WHILE AT THE GYM LAST NIGHT!!!!!! Im like this is complete bull!! I mean seriously what a coincidence that the guy playing even knew like 3 numbers coming up! I mean I don't think thats ever happen in another show. And when the clairvoyant said that grandma was walking around the set, OMG I mean jeez. I just laughed. It's ridiculous how gullible some people are, and believe in this things.
Another thing to address: How should JWs and others be dealt with? Maybe it should be legally required for everyone under 21 to recieve medical care if their wellbeing is endangered. Let the adults do as they please.
This is a good example of how theism/atheism affects your view of the world and the way you respond to certain situations. The vast majority, if not all, atheists would have taken this child for treatment because we don't depend on or believe in anything supernatural. We view nature as being, in the words of Richard Dawkins, "full of total indifference."
except some of these people do not think they are testing god,they think god is testing them.JW's for instance are keenly aware that there child may still die without a blood transfusion,they just consider it more important to obey god.risking eternity with your child so that you can have a few more years with them in this world is to much of a risk.
it is the old issue of legalism over love.they are taught that following gods word is more important then acting out of love.put your child before god and you have failed the test of abraham.
Love is a good thing. Maybe a good statement would be what is more important your childs life or your personal salvation. I think you've got me headed in the right direction.
people like the jw's need to have more faith in gods love then gods rules.they believe in a god that sets his claim of ownership over blood above the lives of their children.if they believed that god loved their children more then gods own rules this would not be a problem for them at least.
I think we have to be very careful to make a difference between choosing to avoid medical treatments FOR YOURSELF and on anothers behalf.
Everyone should be free to kill themselves with their own stupidity, so long at nobody else is at risk. Note: because of the way certain diseases spread, not getting yourself vaccinated might not come under this.
Of course, letting your children die is unacceptable.
My grandmothers next dorr neighbour was religious and didnt believe in seeing a doctor due to her faith, she died from cancer 4 years ago. ITs a shame, we were close and visited her often.
how can ppl do that no matter how much u believe in something u do not risk ur child for it they always come first even if u do believe in god they should come b4 god
Thier may have been some psychological value to religions whihc still exists today to some extent as being able to cope with various aspects of life. The only benefit I can see from things like prayer is a psychological one in which people will either rationalize a circumstance or will have a more positive outlook in a seemingly dismal situation. We must also remember that statistically the more religious someone is, the less of an intellectual they are. There ARE exceptions though.
We have to take into account the number of sensible religious persons also though. Its not the religion itsel but the people. We have these texts that were written hundreds of years ago which may have worked and functioned backthen. However, not all of these beliefs are applicable to modern da standards. Relgious people need to re-evaluate their religion. More so, a religion should only be supplemental in a persons life, not their entire life.
To me, the problem isn't the belief in a deity itself, the problem is Christians, Muslims and a few theists of other faiths are too dependent on their deity (deities). Most Christians are overly dependent on God/Jesus/Holy Spirit, where as pagans and deists for example are not. And because they are not overly dependent on their deity, common sense kicks in and they actually take their child to the goddamn hospital.
thats a sad story:( some illnesses are SO easy to treat:/ theists will get what they deserve unless they are carefull, asfor those parent, they shold not have taken any risks with a baby, its sad:(
You're right it's NOT just one little isolated group; 2 cases near me personally in the last year and a half-one involved a 15 year old girl here in knoxville,tn.,with cancer(she died & mom now faces charges)the other involved another girl-same age-in the neighboring town of oak ridge who was made to 'fast' for prayer I believe.She died too.Those parents won't be held accountable...why? I don't know,but I get why you're so frustrated about this.
Dude. you're confusing idiots who happen to be christian with christians.
WhatWham 10 months ago
Your lumping so-called christians with real Christians... big mistake
ratm8877 1 year ago
@ratm8877 you are claiming there is some kind of distinction...big mistake.
You do realize that the ones you claim aren't "real" Christians will likely say the same about you, right?
KingHeathen 1 year ago
@KingHeathen So right..........
seeker6789 10 months ago
@ratm8877 so let me get this straight if a christian does anything wrong they are not a real christian?Thats a crock.this is the arrogance of christians in general,everytime a christian does something terrible other christians will say well they were not a real christian to begin with,as if all true christians are perfect and no 1 else is.
ranchai100 10 months ago
I know I'm gonna sound sick but... These Children are the next generation of those wacko's... Is it really a bad thing, less of them grow up to have kids of their own?
dragonddff 1 year ago
The question of religion is life or death throughout history and theists ask why we care about their religious beliefs. Your bronze age myths oppress and hold back the entire species. The god myth has destroyed civilizations, cost countless lives and retarded human progress and happiness for millenia. Religion must go or the species is doomed!
JonKevinCherry 2 years ago
it is sad that this crap is going on in the usa it is a damn shame&it is stupid my mom is a baptist right wing bla bla bla u get the idea she has been a nurse for 20years&has no reservations whatsoever about taking us to the doctor so why dont it click with this group of morons ?
helljumper561 2 years ago
One less Ann Coulter.
Joke..
newexperiment 2 years ago
Reminds me of the Vegans... there are some nut job Vegans who feed their kids soy milk because they either can't produce enough breast milk because of their own diets, or because they class their own milk as animal products...
"I wonder why my baby is underweight and sick?" god damn, and then the poor kids die of malnutrition.
SketchmanQC 2 years ago
You are right, this is dangerous! My aunt decided that if she prays to god then her diabetes will go away, and she no longer even checks her blood sugar level... Because my aunt decided to quit, my father also decided to quit...It is really annoying...
UberN3rdDillon 2 years ago
I am very glad to see these nuts getting what's due them. I am in full favor of letting the adults die, but I'm so glad to see laws passed to protect their children from their religion.
zabriel13 2 years ago
I was raised as a Jehovah's Witness and don't do blood transfusions as mentioned, they do most medical care though. I knew a couple that had 3kids and twins. The twins were born early and needed a blood transfusion, they wouldn't give it to them. Hospital went to the courts but it was too late. Another couple I know were in a very similar situation, they weren't firm believers and later left the JWs but they gave their twins the transfusions, they lived. I will never understand them...ever.
audiesmomma 3 years ago
That's horrible! People's willful ignorance is just sickening
quanyin81 3 years ago
the retarded christian community think oh its a win win situation if they live they can grow up but if they die its alright they will just go to God har har har. Though the way we see it (logically) is life or death.
The afterlife is one of my top things i despise that has come from religion.
natbball07 3 years ago
Those are some of the saddest stories I have heard in a long time. Fundi's need to get a clue.
seth1hades 3 years ago
Nice diversion King. I never claimed what you want me to do. You won't site a source for Herod in the other post; that is hypocritical. My mock scenario proves the real one horrific due to their similarity. Yet, you call pointing out a similar scenario a mere play on emotion. Well, you got me there. Your materialistic / atheistic world view may help you burry your emotion when considering the murder of babies, my world view leaves me no room for such a severe neglect of ethics.
Lee8981 3 years ago
I gave you the infinite number of sources of EVERY SINGLE HISTORY BOOK KNOWN TO MAN! Those dates are accepted. Get over it.
Your "story" isn't accepted history. Nor even part of this discussion. Your comparison is IRRELEVANT to my point and I really don't care any more.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
@KingHeathen do you drink apple juisce.
TheLovesoul1 10 months ago
I used to believe in leaving the religious people alone, but they won't leave me or others alone, and the xtians, eg, cannot stop hating and endulging in talk that hurts others, gays for example.
jerrydoubleu 3 years ago
King,
If you do respond to the texts below, please address the scenerio of a baby born one minute pre-mature and the partial birth abortion scenerio. If two babies were the same age and one was forced to undergo partial birth abortion and the other born and terminated one minute later, what is the difference? Also, I am waiting to see if you can admit you were wrong about claiming I was trying to make this a mind change scenerio. I will probably wait forever for such a confession though.
Lee8981 3 years ago
I had this in my response before, but I ran out of room...like nearly every doctor on the planet, unless it's medically necessary, I don't support abortion after the start of the 2nd trimester...I AM NOT in FAVOR of abortion...unlike what you think...I'm just not in a position where I feel I should push my determination over someone else's in this case. HOWEVER, in the case of a born child that is even old enough to ASK for help...there is no way anyone should be defending it as you appear to.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
IF YOU ARE READING THIS, BELOW IS A QUESTION THE "KING" REFUSES TO ANSWER. THIS IS BECAUSE IT EXPOSES THE DOUBLE STANDARDS HE HOLDS. :)
Hey Heathen. If a woman had a partial birth abortion, would this be as sad an incident as the faith healers who killed their child? What do you think? I was just wondering. Thanks for your posts. You express your views well.
Lee8981 3 years ago
LMAO!!!!!! Lee, you know good and damn well that I told you in a private message two days ago that I wasn't ignoring you, I just haven't gotten a chance to come back to your comments. And now that I have and I see what a BITCH ASS you are being...I'm tempted to just ignore you. PLEASE, get over yourself. Your question is irrelevant but I'll still answer it.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
King, sorry man. For real, our conversation came after I posted this. Sorry man. I thought you were ignoring me, that is why I contacted you. I posted this first, then contacted you second. I am over myself, trust me I believe I am a wicked, evil person that makes choices based on selfishness. That is truly what I believe myself to be naturally. So, there really was never much to get over. IF ANYONE IS READING THIS, I contaced King after this, he was not ignoring me, I was wrong; he was busy.
Lee8981 3 years ago
My message went out to you two days ago. Earlier today it said this message was here one day ago. Looks like the "48 hours" passed by since then...regardless, I think it's a bit overbearing to have posted this and THEN ask me...seems the better idea would have been the opposite order. I'm sure we agree on that now...so it's cool, apology accepted.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
Since this is where the anticipated question is to address, can we keep the posts on this video. We have too many coversations floating around. I seriously am curious about a comparison between parents who killed thier children by neglect rooted in their religion and parents who have chosen partial birth abortion in the past. Have they committed similar errors? What do you think? I think comparing these two scenerious is benefical in a dialog between theists and atheists in exposing our stances
Lee8981 3 years ago
I already responded to this...perhaps you didn't see it. Click on "See all comments" and find your original post. There you will find my response.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
Close family of mine are Jehova's Witnesses and have admitted that they'd let their young child die instead of getting a transfusion. I just haven't really thought about it until now.
nafet 3 years ago
Hey Heathen. If a woman had a partial birth abortion, would this be as sad an incident as the faith healers who killed their child? What do you think? I was just wondering. Thanks for your posts. You express your views well.
Lee8981 3 years ago
No, I would not say that it was as sad and for a very good reason. Let's take both situations in their purest forms. The faith healers let a child old enough to know, feel, think, etc suffer slowly as that child died. That child had many options that could have helped them live. The abortion happened BEFORE any central nervous system activity occurs. The options were still there, but apparently, after weighing these options, termination of the pregnancy was the best of these options.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
Now, by comparison...the faith healers THOUGHT they were doing the best option that would lead to their child getting well...and they were wrong and instead signed their own child's death warrant. THIS child was wanted, had a home, was capable of being cared for and COULD HAVE gone on to live a happy and healthy life. The aborted child's outlook wasn't so bright, which is most likely why the abortion took place.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
Thanks for the response. While you are appalled at the religious parent's choice, I am appalled at what I see as a double standard. First, there is medical evidence that a fetus can feel pain. The most liberal dating for pain experience being after 22 weeks of gestational age. It is wicked for the religious parents you mentioned and for those who pursued partial birth abortion, to kill their children.
Lee8981 3 years ago
In partial birth abortion, a blade is injected into the baby's skull. It is pulled out, feet first, then, with the head still in, it is stabbed in the skull. That is graphic, but true. If it is okay to murder a baby whose head is out of the womb, then, logically it must be okay to do it to a child who is completely out the womb for a minute. Would you answer these: Would it be okay to terminate a baby who had been born for one minute? If not, why?
Lee8981 3 years ago
let's consider a situation where I see this as a necessary alternative:
Mother is trying to deliver the child, but the delivery isn't going well. The mother and child are in tremendous jeopardy of BOTH dying. The only possible thing that the doctors can do at this point is to terminate the child to save the mother or they lose both.
While you attempt to make it sound like this is something that involves a mother in labor who suddenly changes her mind...that's simply NOT the case.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
You said I tried to make this sound like something about a mother changing her mind, I NEVER SAID THAT. Can you admit you made a wrong assumption? Humans have removed their own children virtually free from the womb and requested doctors to stab the baby in the back of the head. It is not a mind change, it is a calculated murder. If there is a medical reason for partial birth abortion, that is one thing. Yet, is has been used as birth control by some. I say its just as sad as your video account
Lee8981 3 years ago
Further more, this was all to lead to a point about double standards. You are appaulled that religious teachings lead to a murder. I am appaulled that a baby being stabbed in the back of the head is seen as a right by many athiests I know. Yet, I am not surprised. It is consistent with their world views. You avoided the 1 minute baby death because it is clear that if you embrace one, you must embrace the other. There is a connection between superstition and the religious parents poor choice.
Lee8981 3 years ago
I avoided it because it's IRRELEVANT as it doesn't happen...at least, I've never seen a single documented case of it. Again, provide a source.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
And there is a link to your athiestic worldview and your embracement that partial birth abortion is not as SAD as the death of the child mentioned in your video. Bottom line, the baby is not as valuable as the teen. I firmly disagree. Both were equally valuable lives.
Lee8981 3 years ago
It looks like a materialistic, atheistic view can lead to a logical apathy to some murders and a superstitious, religious view can lead to an murder as well. Point: both world views helped humans rationalize the murder. If partial birth abortion isn't murder, what on earth is? And if it is not murder, exposure should not be either since both terminate a "fetus" within a similar time frame.
Lee8981 3 years ago
Here you sorely misrepresent everything I said by claiming I "embrace" any type of abortion...not the case. Straw man.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
I'm not wrong about that assumption because you did in fact do that, the text is evidence of it.
Sight a source where a doctor has stabbed a birthed baby in the back of the head. If you don't have one then you just proved that I was right that you are overstating this. PLUS, that wouldn't be an "abortion" as the pregnancy ended with a birth.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
I think claiming you can't "push your views" on somebody is a cop-out. I believe murder is wrong and partial abortion = murder. I never claimed my scenerio exists; I claimed it was just like partial birth abortion minus 1 minute. I did not offer a straw man; passivity toward abortion is as dangerous as positively pursuing it in my opinion. Yet, it is only an opinion. Similar cases are ALWAYS relevant to ethical questions. Yet, exposure is still practiced today. Especially to girls.
Lee8981 3 years ago
Point being, if you would not be passive in helping a premature baby to NOT be stabbed; why is it okay as long as the head is in the vagina? In my opinion, if you embrace one, you have to embrace the other. Also, if one is horrific, both are horrific. I know what a straw man is, and I know when somebody throws out the phrase as a diversion.
Lee8981 3 years ago
you have yet to sight an instance where this happened.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
I never claimed I was going to...your stipulation not mine. I added a hypothetical example to expose an ethical scenerio.
By the way, if you are so big on sources, why would you not give me the Herod source? You have hypocrital demands.
Lee8981 3 years ago
then if you can't sight a SINGLE INSTANCE where this happened, then I assume it's the same bullshit propaganda that people from the religious persuasion tend to often use to make a point that doesn't exist to play on emotion.
And I've already explained Herod to you.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
@Lee8981 where does it even talk about abortion in the bible?It doesnt.With what we know now it isnt until the 5th or 6th week that a baby is fully formed in the womb,I could be wrong on the timeline.I personally believe as an athiest that if a woman is going to die in childbirth,or if she is a rape victim,abortion is right.But 2 grown adults who don't want children should take responsibility and use protection to not get pregnant.In the latter case I believe abortion is wrong
ranchai100 10 months ago
22 weeks=3+ month=2nd trimester.
I am referring to 1st trimester pregnancies. Bottom line is that I don't think that abortion should be an option you take lightly...but I also don't think it's an option you have the right to take away from someone.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
22 Weeks was the MOST LIBERAL DATING. In other words, it is the latest date many give for pain experience. Many doctors, some I know personally, claim it is possible and likely before this date.
Lee8981 3 years ago
chasington89: Yup. You're right. I am a weak and stupid individual for living my life the way that I did. But the way that you feel about a 15 mo. old dying at the hands of stupid parents is not going to prove that God does not care, it only proves that you are trying to judge God based on your emotions. And I could care less that you don't believe that He healed me. You don't want to believe it, and I could just care less how much you hate me for saying that He did. Willfully ignorant, you are.
yawnhockel 3 years ago
And they don't even learn.
chailizard 3 years ago
Once, I wasn't a Christian. I drank,smoked, and had sex w/everything. I got an std when I was 18, which I passed on to others. Folks, genital herpes is incurable. I had it for 9 years before I became a Christian and asked God to heal that, and He did. Genital herpes was the result of the sinful lifestyle that I had lived back then. It burned and itched like you can't imagine. (Unless you have it.) God still heals and forgives. You should trust Jesus and turn your life away from sin to find out.
yawnhockel 3 years ago
absolutely right friend. miracles, blessings, answered prayers in your life, mine, and others.
many times also though, people have misfortunate experiences to look to the better things as the Lord works in mysterious ways, and its hard to know how he may work each time. =D have a good day.
evankimbell0710 3 years ago
I 2nd that
885808326 3 years ago
totally right friend. =D
peace love and care.
evankimbell0710 3 years ago
This is why he ends every one of his videos with "Don't take my word for it, think for yourself". The example you just gave isn't proof it just shows you are a weak and stupid individual without the ability to fix your own life yourself. Are you saying that God chose to fix your little disease from your own stupid mistakes but chose to let a 15 month old girl die who did nothing wrong? I can't stress enough how stupid and deluded you, or anyone else who believes in your story, is. You are sin.
chasington89 3 years ago
WTF?! Dude, go to a research institute: you should show everyone that you don't have Herpes anymore. And isn't it great you can have sex again? Wow. (I think you just don't have outbursts).
FromBoomTown 3 years ago
Exactly, herpes doesn't have a cure, but you can go quite a while without showing any symptoms. Go get tested, yawn...you'll see. And if you ARE cured, then it's probably something the REST OF THE WORLD should know about. You should go get tested and have them research WHY you were cured. Because as much as others have tried...Prayer just doesn't seem to work in any version of consistency.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
Very sad. These folks were all stupid. If these were treatable illnesses - GO TO A DOCTOR! In cases where there is a cure available and someone refuses it, they are STUPID! It's in the cases where there is not a known cure that you would want to pray. If there is no cure, then only God can help in such a situation, but God created everything for our use and benefit. If a cure can be obtained naturally, then there is no need for a miracle healing. Duh.
yawnhockel 3 years ago
i had similar experiences through prayer with warts, drugs, and more recently testicular cancer which was very fortunate giving the time between finding out cancer was present to the time it was surgically removed was only a little under a week. we are humbled in many ways.
peace and love friend.
evankimbell0710 3 years ago
yawn...I appreciate that you started your comments by admitting that these people have issues. Thank you for that. I wish more religious people on my channel would just admit when other people do stupid things in the name of their religion regardless of which religion we are talking about...
I take exception with your idea of "praying for incurable diseases"...but I'll leave that alone for now.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
YOUR VIDEOS are on point
REGWHY 3 years ago
Don't expect God to answer any prayer. Christians describe God as omnipresent and eternal. Therefore he knows everything we've ever done in the past and everything we'll do in the future. So, what are the implications of praying to such a God? It's ludicrous for you to tell an all-powerful God, who has a perfect plan for you how to run your life, and to expect him to change his will to accommodate your prayers. Others should know that it's unsound to expect such a God to answer petitions.
885808326 3 years ago
And, how does one know whether he or she is praying w/in God's will? If I pray for a terminally ill person, how can I know whether it is God's will for that person to live or to die? After all, everyone has his appointed time to pass on to the next life. If I'm praying, night and day, for a terminally ill person to be healed and it is not in God's will to heal the person, am I not wasting my time?
885808326 3 years ago
This kind of incompitence just pisses me the fuck off.
AggressiveLogic 3 years ago
COULD hurt? O_o
COULT!??!?!
suicide bombers,al-keida,hamas ( and other terror organizations),honour killings,people who kill themselves for their god,and things like u said
DaniKiller 3 years ago
Ur videos and the point you make have gotten much better since I watched you a year ago. I haven't kept up. Happiness does help health but that only goes so far. Prayer is a wishful thought.
People who claim to be psychic hardly know what's going on NOW. We have ghosts aka politicians. You can see them and hear them but they're not real... like church. Speaking of, don't let my username fool u. I feel that I recognize what most people don't/won't. So do you.
Happy Father's Day... week.
DlVlNATl0Nx 3 years ago
ya religion is crap. it's the relationship we have with God that matters. i think the parents did go too far. yes ur supposed to pray and let him take care of it..but also, he put medicines and docters here for a reason also. and the whole gay bashing, and whatever else was said against religion is also crap. one sin is no greater than another...i also believe everyone can make their own choices and i wont hold it against them unless it does me harm in some way...
ckirche 3 years ago
COULD hurt? o-o
i was surprised to hear the questions
religion includes awesome "pieceful" things like:
suicide bombing
honour killing
gay bashing
killing because of religion
humiliating because of religion
RELIGION IS CRAP
DaniKiller 3 years ago
You know it's funny that you guys are balling all people of religion into one lump. Some cult that refuses medical treatment, terrorists that die for their god? What does that have to do with normal religious people? Should I find a crazy atheist and say that all atheists are crazy? It's fucking retarded!
Ukrainatrain 3 years ago
"What does that have to do with normal religious people?"
I have to agree. So far, I've found that the majority of people aren't interested in any of these atrocities being committed in the name of their religion.
I have to give props to Christians and Jews for speaking out against some of the more fanatical aspects of their religious belief (Muslims have yet to really get on board with this one). And most of them accept I have no belief myself and don't treat me like I have horns on my head.
fs3d 3 years ago
When did I or anyone else say "all people of religion"? I showed an example of religion bad horribly wrong. Why don't you simply agree with me? This event show NEVER happen. Do you agree or are you just here to argue?
KingHeathen 3 years ago
If these people honest to goodness think they're doing the right thing, why do their kids keep dieing?? Do they think stillborns often is a common thing? If they think they're right shouldn't we be getting stillborns and sick dieing children??
dustbust3r 3 years ago
I think their religion comes with a little ADD. They might catch on within the next maybe 12 children?
HardyBoyTyler74 3 years ago
VFX is debunked repeatedly...but he won't allow the comments and video responses, so gullible people don't get to see them.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
Kinda' feels personal when you have kids of your own who are happy and healthy due to you NOT being as dumb as those other parents, eh?
HeadoftheHydra 3 years ago
medicine achieved more miricles than any amount of praying, thats why im going into medicine:/
Erech01 3 years ago
ha, the same people who believe unborn fetuses have the right to live, will let them don't give a shit about what happens to them after they're born.
ZaKEEuS 3 years ago
That's actually quite smart ... I'm going to quote that irl on occasion XD
dustbust3r 3 years ago
remember "Pray Until Something Happens" well something did happen, she died.
ZaKEEuS 3 years ago
Further, you claim that Christians DON'T tell these parents that they're wrong? That's absurd. Many Christian theologists have made remarks critical of faith-healing including Robert Saucy, Don Carson, Richard Gaffin, etc. ALL deaths are regretable and unnecessary but they ARE rare. A UCSD study found 172 U.S. child deaths from faithhealing families from 1975 to 1995, and fewer still since the laws you've noted that have been passed, fewer than 10 per year. More kids die crossing the street.
DirkMcQuigly 3 years ago
Ditto. Sceptics have no CLUE how annoying it is to watch Pentecostals rant against and sneer at other conservative, even fundamentalist denominations for being apostate and unbelieving, only to see them make a mess that WE get blamed for by "free thinkers" who haven't bothered to do their homework on historical theology or current developments in global Christianity.
mothcorrupteth 3 years ago
There's a lot more damage than 10 kids. I guarentee it. Just because mainstream chistianity generally believes things to be different in that case doesn't mean that it's right. Mainstream christianity is just stupid. I don't understand why you guys believe at all you don't do shit and don't follow the rules until they are "convenient for you guys" and are so passive about your religion you might as well not believe. Then someone talks about it and all of a sudden they start talking about faith
makaisenki 3 years ago
I think it is *probable* that more than 10 die per year. In a follow-up of the study Dirk cited, Rita Swan (2000) said that officials in OR released information on 90 children who had died between 1955 and 1998 in the local Followers of Christ Church. These deaths were only discovered recently because of faith healing groups' tendencies to keep the facts to themselves. Swan believes this suggests that the 172 deaths she and Asser analyzed in 1998 were a mere fraction of true national totals.
mothcorrupteth 3 years ago
However, to say that you can *guarantee* there have been more deaths is gratuitous rhetoric. Moreover, the accusation is that "mainstream Christianity" is passive, not active, in its opposition to presumptive faith healing is preposterous and personally offensive. Two of my own fellow UAB students terminated their friendship with me after I expressed my opposition to their faith healing theology. STOP begging the question on issues you don't understand.
mothcorrupteth 3 years ago
i think you're partcially right.(as far as i'm concerned)although,there was a time when i tried to be completly faithful to God.i used to do everything i could to stay true to HIS word. then along came satan and i started to enjoy the ungodly pleasures of the world.i still have faith,but just like the law of this land, rules are made to be broken.and i don't believe you're statement applies to every christian. their are those who do their best to stay true to HIM.
ckirche 3 years ago
KH, my only argument is that you're pointing out some VERY extreme cases where parents deny medical care to their children based upon their brand of faith using ONLY prayer. This is NOT anywhere near mainstream thought. Frankly, there are many more cases of neglect that have noting to do with faith. Certainly this kind of extremism is severe and hardly Biblical, but you also fail to mention patheistic faiths or spiritualism that have also rejected medical care.
DirkMcQuigly 3 years ago
or how about doctors giving wrestles roids like chris benoit
bobcatkline 3 years ago
or how about people die from medications when they take it as the instructions say
bobcatkline 3 years ago
your such a naive fool if you don't keep up on the news
bobcatkline 3 years ago
if you don't know about those cases....i guess you don't watch the news then
bobcatkline 3 years ago
or the doctors in new york turn that black kid away and said it was nothing and he die
bobcatkline 3 years ago
how about those doctors that reused dirty needle in las vegas that infected people
bobcatkline 3 years ago
how about the doctor unplug a patient life Life support...oh i guess you be happy if someone you love was unplug from life support
bobcatkline 3 years ago
i mean ....what does found god mean to you...i guess if you ever have a thought of god it makes you a non-practicing Christians i guess that put's atheist in that catalog
bobcatkline 3 years ago
bobcat...SURELY, you don't deny that there are people that call themselves Christians put don't follow the teachings of the religion...are you REALLY trying to portray yourself as that naive?
KingHeathen 3 years ago
what does found god mean to you...i guess if you even think of non-practicing Christians i guess that put's atheist in that catalog
bobcatkline 3 years ago
why don't you do a story about that boy with cancer that had his organs transplant into other people by doctors because of that those people got cancer and die
bobcatkline 3 years ago
1-because I've never heard this story
2-it's an isolated case and not very relevant to anything I'm doing.
3-I wonder if they would have died without the transplants as well?
4-again...what's your point?
KingHeathen 3 years ago
it was on cnn
bobcatkline 3 years ago
there are alot of cases where doctors mess up.....isolated hmmmm
bobcatkline 3 years ago
how many total cases in the past decade included someone getting an organ transplant of a cancer victim? I'm sure it's less than 1%...that's isolated.
Besides, if the people didn't survive, it must have been "god's will" right?
You never did say what your point was.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
plus when i was a kid i was rush to the hospital and had to wait for hour when i was cut and bleeding like a stuck hog then when they got around to see me i quit beelding i could die because of the hospital
bobcatkline 3 years ago
yes, given enough time, your blood will clot on its own...and some hospitals are overcrowded...what's your point?
KingHeathen 3 years ago
there was a time i had a head injury and the doctor told my dad i would either live or i would die.....
bobcatkline 3 years ago
yep, those are the two options....what's your point?
KingHeathen 3 years ago
No fucking duh.
PenItFoMeYo 3 years ago
on lock-up about 9 out of 10 killers said they found god hmmmmm what were they before and alot of other criminal claim they found god in prison
bobcatkline 3 years ago
they were what you might consider "non-practicing" Christians (79%)...check any poll you like on that. They don't go into prison and CONVERT to a religion...they just increase their religiosity in their existing religion.
KingHeathen 3 years ago
another great vid, 5 stars. I feel sick when i think of 'faith healing parents' .. let some poor baby die from a simple affliction, by praying to nothing rather than simply taking them to the doctor...
SDSnyper 3 years ago
I hope in this case the woman will be treated and then let free or at least in a relatively free state like a low security mental facility where the patients can leave with ppl and do normal things. Because most likely she wouldnt have hurt anyone if she had been properly looked after and medicated. Medicine, for all its flaws, can do wonderful things and it will keep getting better and better.
thegreatestape 3 years ago
Shouldn't evolution have removed religion from us by now?
ThinkIGiveAShit 3 years ago
Anything that stops the free flowing of knowledge and puts labels on children is evil and should be stopped. We don't need this kind of excuse to attack religion, but the crazies help out the cause.
monomij 3 years ago
I told my girlfriend about this(who is a christian) and she said there stupid, your suppose to meet god half way. I guess thats her way of justifying not praying to get better and trusting medicine.
mixedatheist 3 years ago
Half way?
HALF WAY???
There is no HALF WAY.
Prayer DOES NOT WORK.
tingtangs 3 years ago
a 11 year old died in wisconsin where im from about 1 week ago. She had diabetes and her mom prayed for her to get better instead of taking her to doctor. Her church even prayed over the phone to the sick girl. The police are still deciding whether to press charges. the church said they have prayed for others and they got better so they feel they are in the right.
mixedatheist 3 years ago
Of course they do. Deluded fucktards. My mother says that god gave us doctors with the knowledge to help people so we should use them. She says by all means pray, but god wants us to use common sense too. *Sigh* Christians (here included) will say ANYTHING to justify there beliefs. Shes trusted god to take care of things like colds and shit before and then praises Jebus when they go away. Of course they went away. they were temporary problems to begin with. ugh...
thegreatestape 3 years ago
Wow thats sad.
LordMalice6d9 3 years ago
thats funny, because theres also a case of two vegan parents in georgia, who attempted to raise their child on a vegan diet, and when the child died, they were both charged with manslaughter, and 1st degree murder for not seeking medical attention when the child was malnourished. that came with a long jail sentence. but i guess since this particular account youre talking about had something to do with Christianity, its not as bad. it makes me sick.
thrashinsince88 3 years ago
There was also the case of religiously fanatical parents, who fed their baby only watermelons and (I think) cucumbers because they thought that he was the reincarnation of Jesus. And they were suposidly shocked at their baby's death and refused to believe that it was their fault...
dethde 3 years ago
wow
againstbigotry 3 years ago
pray them to health....are you kidding me you can pray to win the lotto you can pray to get a job but dont pray for a life it WONT WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jasonvoorheesbutcher 3 years ago
What about Jehovah's Witnesses? I love 'em. Less work for me when they are in surgery!
pmarie2003 3 years ago
what do u mean when u say we need to do something about them? i agree abotu religion being a cancer to society but whats the solution ban religion? censor it so they can't practice half their beleifs?
sanctionoftehvictim 3 years ago
Sanctionofthevictim,
Why does "do something" automatically imply violen government action to you. Merely by promoting rationality (do whatever degree we do) we are doing something. Also, consider that individual actions (the only kinds of actions that exist) of defending others are justified.
blackacidlizzard 3 years ago
ok. see thanks u answered my question thats what u mean by do something.
sanctionoftehvictim 3 years ago
they should just plea insanity lol
sanctionoftehvictim 3 years ago
For some reason the video cuts out after three minutes for me.
But for all those who let their children die while they sit and pray, ever hear that saying "god helps those who help themselves." Well get off your butts and help your children to some damn medical treatment. Stop being so damn lazy by expecting god to fix all your problems for you. Try fixing your own problems. Bunch of damn idiots.
cjclifford 3 years ago
natural selection in action...now if they would just do themselves in.
Child services shoulda yanked those kids out.
It sounds mean but children raised by people like these will become them.....abusing some more kids. Maybe we will get lucky and someone will shank em in jail.
Mahoivlich 3 years ago
great video
awhelnaw 3 years ago
You don't know how much this scares me, my father is a Jw and I live the reality of the no blood card.
shadoweyes666 3 years ago
no offense-- more power to them....
population control??????
controlled genocide?????
maybe not...just dumb parents!
new0305 3 years ago
According to Mathew, Jesus said: he who is not ill has no need of a physician.
The implication clearly being that Jesus believed the sick DO need a physician, and I cannot see how anyone can use Christianity to justify medical neglect.
EyeLean5280 3 years ago
hey, republicans: I got your "slippery slope" right here.
this whole story makes me want to vomit.
ATL45 3 years ago
The heads of the churches and the leaders of these heinous groups of imbiciles should be prosicuted as well for this totally idiotic and unnecesary series of deaths related to this nonsensical belief system.
justinhlas 3 years ago
How can you charge people with being stupid and brainwashed? I think the preacher leading the congregation should be held accountable too, unless he directly advised them to send the kid to a doctor.
CadicusTheDamned 3 years ago
Well at least they are against abortian.. right?
I mean.. a couple still born babies.. a couple of dead kids due to easily fixable illnesses OH WELL. As long as they are against a woman's choice to choose, they deserve a thumbs up to me.
thefakeyeti 3 years ago
What an absolute tragedy...
mistawulf 3 years ago
This would have been the perfect opportunity for "god" to prove himself... all he had to do was heal that little baby. Oh wait, I almost forgot.. god fell asleep at the wheel thousands of years ago, allowing millions of innocent deaths over the years.
I CANNOT WAIT for religion itself to die a horrible death... it's time to move forward, and leave all this superstitious bullshit in the dark ages.
siciliano29 3 years ago
I WATCHED THAT WHILE AT THE GYM LAST NIGHT!!!!!! Im like this is complete bull!! I mean seriously what a coincidence that the guy playing even knew like 3 numbers coming up! I mean I don't think thats ever happen in another show. And when the clairvoyant said that grandma was walking around the set, OMG I mean jeez. I just laughed. It's ridiculous how gullible some people are, and believe in this things.
M4B21S88 3 years ago
Another thing to address: How should JWs and others be dealt with? Maybe it should be legally required for everyone under 21 to recieve medical care if their wellbeing is endangered. Let the adults do as they please.
Ryansarcade9 3 years ago
This is a good example of how theism/atheism affects your view of the world and the way you respond to certain situations. The vast majority, if not all, atheists would have taken this child for treatment because we don't depend on or believe in anything supernatural. We view nature as being, in the words of Richard Dawkins, "full of total indifference."
Ryansarcade9 3 years ago
These guys are idiots. No doubt. Maybe I should do another miracles video. We could call this one "Don't test God". Great video.
squitmaa 3 years ago
except some of these people do not think they are testing god,they think god is testing them.JW's for instance are keenly aware that there child may still die without a blood transfusion,they just consider it more important to obey god.risking eternity with your child so that you can have a few more years with them in this world is to much of a risk.
NemoUtopian 3 years ago
It is likely those guys are also idiots. Maybe I'll ponder my title for a bit.
squitmaa 3 years ago
it is the old issue of legalism over love.they are taught that following gods word is more important then acting out of love.put your child before god and you have failed the test of abraham.
NemoUtopian 3 years ago
Love is a good thing. Maybe a good statement would be what is more important your childs life or your personal salvation. I think you've got me headed in the right direction.
squitmaa 3 years ago
people like the jw's need to have more faith in gods love then gods rules.they believe in a god that sets his claim of ownership over blood above the lives of their children.if they believed that god loved their children more then gods own rules this would not be a problem for them at least.
NemoUtopian 3 years ago
idiots they can go and fuck them sevles take there children they have lost all rights to them fuck there religion fuck there so called god
Redfox161616 3 years ago
idiots they can go and fuck them sevles take there children they have lost all rights to them fuck there religion fuck there so called god
Redfox161616 3 years ago
You know what makes me sick? These are the types of people who preach that homosexuals would make unfit parents. FUCK THEM!
GypsyWytch 3 years ago
I've heard similar things said about atheists, muslims, blacks. It's ridiculous and pathetic.
Clutchology 3 years ago
I think we have to be very careful to make a difference between choosing to avoid medical treatments FOR YOURSELF and on anothers behalf.
Everyone should be free to kill themselves with their own stupidity, so long at nobody else is at risk. Note: because of the way certain diseases spread, not getting yourself vaccinated might not come under this.
Of course, letting your children die is unacceptable.
TawntheAtheist 3 years ago
Cant we just bring back dunking witches and dunk these parents!?
GOAQ 3 years ago
My grandmothers next dorr neighbour was religious and didnt believe in seeing a doctor due to her faith, she died from cancer 4 years ago. ITs a shame, we were close and visited her often.
stagism 3 years ago
how can ppl do that no matter how much u believe in something u do not risk ur child for it they always come first even if u do believe in god they should come b4 god
ahdeath2007 3 years ago
Great video.
DavidRandallCurtis 3 years ago
Thier may have been some psychological value to religions whihc still exists today to some extent as being able to cope with various aspects of life. The only benefit I can see from things like prayer is a psychological one in which people will either rationalize a circumstance or will have a more positive outlook in a seemingly dismal situation. We must also remember that statistically the more religious someone is, the less of an intellectual they are. There ARE exceptions though.
agentsamsonite7264 3 years ago
We have to take into account the number of sensible religious persons also though. Its not the religion itsel but the people. We have these texts that were written hundreds of years ago which may have worked and functioned backthen. However, not all of these beliefs are applicable to modern da standards. Relgious people need to re-evaluate their religion. More so, a religion should only be supplemental in a persons life, not their entire life.
agentsamsonite7264 3 years ago
To me, the problem isn't the belief in a deity itself, the problem is Christians, Muslims and a few theists of other faiths are too dependent on their deity (deities). Most Christians are overly dependent on God/Jesus/Holy Spirit, where as pagans and deists for example are not. And because they are not overly dependent on their deity, common sense kicks in and they actually take their child to the goddamn hospital.
JustinsVision 3 years ago
thats a sad story:( some illnesses are SO easy to treat:/ theists will get what they deserve unless they are carefull, asfor those parent, they shold not have taken any risks with a baby, its sad:(
Erech01 3 years ago
P.S. one respense ive heard when i mention these sort of things to theists is:
'you cant just depend on prayer to heal people you need medicine aswell'
you just wish you could slap them at that point:/
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Erech01 3 years ago
*Freedom of religion or should that be Freedom FROM Religion?
cryptodud 3 years ago
...
That is absolutely sad, KingHeathen and completely disgusting. I doubt they stay away from doctors when they are sick.
Informative vid. Thanks.
AzmodanKijur 3 years ago
You're right it's NOT just one little isolated group; 2 cases near me personally in the last year and a half-one involved a 15 year old girl here in knoxville,tn.,with cancer(she died & mom now faces charges)the other involved another girl-same age-in the neighboring town of oak ridge who was made to 'fast' for prayer I believe.She died too.Those parents won't be held accountable...why? I don't know,but I get why you're so frustrated about this.
munkymanly 3 years ago
If one believes in God, how is it that one can't take the logical step that medication is a gift from same?
abbnormalfunctions 3 years ago
These people shouldn't be allowed to procreate, for the progression of mankind.
synakul 3 years ago