This is exactly the technique I employed when I was attacked by a horde of dwarves back in '82. Sadly, it didn't work and I was captured and fed to Jamie, their pet liger,
@CreamehPixels For the exercise--slowly build up til exhausted. For real fight--5 seconds or until you can get up and run. Much longer (as with any real fight) and you're in trouble.
@mattkovsky . . . love the website, love the idea behind it, love how its immediately away from attacker using any means nessesary to save your life... can't believe you've had all these 'dislikes' on your videos... it looks to be some real good stuff and just from watching these and reading your website I feel better prepared should be my life be under imminent threat at any time in the future. thanks very much.
@mattkovsky Ofcourse every martial art on the planet is different, thats what makes them beautiful BUT why hasn't anyone utilized these techineques in the MMa..maybe someone should.
@shubroto81 1) We're not very well known. 2) What we do is incompatible with sport fighting (other than looseness, which every competitive athlete needs). Dig around on our website; we have a whole bunch of articles on the subject.
Many youtubers commenting here really have no clue about a real street fight or mugging. Have you ever been mugged on the street? Do you know how difficult it would be for a mugger or group of attackers to even grab or get a hand on someone doing these ground movements?! I mean really, it may look funny or strange to someone trained in a traditional dojo taught a one move response that isn't realistic, but this is what you should really do if you want a small chance of surviving an assault.
I used to do this when I was 10 and didn't want to get out of bed to go to school -- my mother hated it, blankets everywhere; but I'd be too hot to stay in bed and make my way to breakfast -- she always won, but my legs, my legs were "free" and could not be controlled............my legs were free.
@megasayajinsongoku99 As I said above, Elephtheri Pali contains elements of the ancient art. How much is debatable, you'd need an archeologist to compare with depictions on ancient clay pottery. Take something like tai chi: according to hundred year old texts, even back then it wasn't being practiced correctly compared to its creators. True "combat" tai chi is almost extinct, mostly because of the purge under Mao. Ancient truths need to be rediscovered. Nothing is new under the sun.
@mattkovsky Wow, thanks for posting this! Id like to learn more. Does ur video cover more of this art and its history? Are there any books ud recommend we take a look at? Thanks in advance!
It is unfair to say freestyle wrestling is from the Greeks , because freestyle wrestling is from catch as catch can wrestling who has traditions in the british fighting arts ...
I don't think that the martial arts of ancient Greece survived in a unbroken tradition untill today .... It is not fair to say all wrestling arts (japanese, mongolian, german , british , native indian etc.) are from the Greeks ..If so , one can also say that wrestling is ''invented'' from the ancient Aegyptians .
@megasayajinsongoku99 According to our sources it has survived. Every culture has their form of fighting. Perkins has used what he learned from these particular cultures. The Greek-European connection would be stronger than an Asian or Middle eastern one for sure.
the ancient Aegyptians had documented martial arts and wrestling traditions thousands years earlier of the ancient Greeks ..... Means that that the greek arts are from the aegyptians ? No , because many nations have those fighting traditions ....
So far I know is modern freestyle wrestling from british-american catch as catch can wrestling .... I think the ancient styles of greek wrestling are not survived, it was different than modern freestyle wrestling....
@mattkovsky mean you with eleftheri pali freestyle wrestling ?? ? Freestlye wrestling is evolved sport from british catch wresling ....
''Native'' catch wrestling ??? I think catch wrestling is from the Anglo-Saxons ... why you say ''native '' catch wrestling ? 'native'' is a term for the indios ...
@megasayajinsongoku99 Eleftheri Pali is Greek and related to Pancration and predates "British" wrestling by centuries. By "native catch" we're using a more common term than Native "Counting Koo [coup]" which would be meaningless to most people but refers to besting your enemy in ways so stealthy they don't even realize they've been defeated. Perkins combined all of this and modified it further with tai chi internal principles which mixed well with Native "anything goes" fighting methods.
@mattkovsky Guided Chaos (Attack Proof) is truly a amazing system of fighting . Very natural and realistic. So far I understand it is a mix from ww2 combatives , asian arts and freestyle wrestling ( in greek ελεύθερα πάλη) .. I am Greek myself , I undertand some greek people who say that many arts ar from the Greeks but I think we must be objektive.... Many nations have martial arts and wrestling traditions ...... the ancient Greeks as the British too....
@Ondus2000 John Perkins was trained by his part Cherokee father who was a West Virginian coal miner. Part of this training was "Native, catch-as-catch-can wrasslin' ". Whether it was specifically Cherokee or not is undetermined, however when we trained some NY Mohawks they indicated that it was close to what they had been taught on the reservation.
The impacts of the foot against the ground represent strikes against attackers who are also on the ground,
If the attacker is already on the ground then why would you also want to get on the ground with him? In that case you are giving up your tactical advantage by being over them in an advantageous position. You are also off your feet thus limiting your movement or ability to leave the area if others join the attacker.
@apryor2006 As we state a million times, this is a drill for training if you fall or are thrown to the ground. The impacts of the foot against the ground represent strikes against attackers who are also on the ground because they have fallen too and you need to incapacitate them so you can get up and run. They also represent strikes against the feet and shins of standing attackers.
@mattkovsky Humn, I read back a few pages in this post and didn't find where you stated that a million times but maybe I missed it. Obviously it's a drill since you are demonstrating a training exercise but I think it would serve you better to practice something effective instead of flopping around on the ground. It's not impossible for the attacker to grab a leg or to jump on the defender when a leg kick misses and goes by. We see this (with resulting knockouts in MMA all the time.
@apryor2006 If you read the typical criticism of our vids in these threads it's repeated ad nauseum. The "flopping" (spinning, rolling) develops ground mobility. If you lay motionless like a flipped turtle (as in most arts) you're dead. In our tests with non-compliant attackers it is virtually impossible to grab a leg as it's pounding you with a boot if you're doing it right (not like in MMA which is barefoot and different).
@mattkovsky if the attacker is standing then there are other , more effective ways of applying similar kicks from the ground. if he is on the ground with you then i highly doubt it is going to be effective or even necissary to flop around like this (as demonstrated).
@mattkovsky is this really influeced from the Native Indians? I mean I read a the time Attack Proof and it is very efective and simple .... But I don't know sure if it is only from the Indians ...
I mean Perkins has black belt 7 dan ... In which martial art is he trained ? In the book is written that many techniques of Attack Proof are based in WW2 combatives , who are influeced in a great part from ju jutzu..
@megasayajinsongoku99 Native influences: read reply to @Ondus2000 above. Perkins trained in Native "catch wrestling" and WW CQC from age 5. Trained Hapkido, Tae Kwon Do, Tai Chi, Elephtheri Pali. Developed his own system in 1978 which is very different from most established styles but to outsiders looks like wing chun or Systema altho it has little in common with either. Uses principles a bagua or tai chi practitioner might recognize altho they will tell you it feels much different.
Well before white people, how often do you think native Americans fought in parking lots... =P Not every Martial art is about fighting, some are still tought today as hobbies and history.
@nbglass if your life was in danger you wouldn't even feel it. However the movements remain in your nervous system even though you use the mats for practice. The training gives you the ability to be very agile, and destructive, all at the same time.
Kintanon, the main schools are in New York. I'm in Chicago, so you can drop me an email if you're serious about doing your best to spar. You need to understand something though, we don't duel. It's all clinch (RANGE) stuff where you can move however you like.
I would like to see the impact of his feet hitting actual pavement and not a padded surface. Why? Because when your foot smacks into the ground sideways as it does in the video, you might just break your foot. The cushion on the ground really helps. Granted, I am not saying this could not work, just saying there is a better, safer way to kick. It does not make much sense to take out your own foot at the same time you are trying to take out your attacker, thus eliminating or hampering escape.
You completely misunderstand the exercise. 1-The impacts of the foot against the ground represent strikes against attackers who are also on the ground, thus the mat is serving as a horizontal 'heavy bag." 2-If you look carefully, he's not hitting with the side of the foot, the foot is angled at impact to hit with the sole...
...3-Some of the kicks against the ground (that are not meant as body strikes) are completely flush; these use the rebounding effect of the shoe sole material to ricochet up into further kicks against standing attackers.
How you practice is how you will perform. Being a fellow martial artist and musician I can tell you from experience that this is true. With how hard you can probably kick, I would really find out on a harder surface IF your chosen shoes can indeed absorb that rebound force. Theory is great, real practiced, tried and true action is better. It's all constructive criticism and I hope that you are not one of those people who can't see it for what it is. Just trying to help you not hurt yourself.
Appreciate the genuine interest, it's rare in the MA. This methodology is actually quite old (West Virginian Hill country/Native American) and has been used more recently by NY law enforcement.
I've kicked hard concrete in a garage with FULL FORCE in the manner you describe and it causes NO INJURY whatsoever. I'm not trying to be completely difficult, but the criticisms we get are 99% bullsh*t. All we ask from people of Bullshido and other doubters is that you actually come into a class and try it out before you criticize. It might actually prevent you guys from defending the indefensible. We actually are who we say we are, plain and simple.
I'm doing my best to arrange to spar with some Guided Chaos/KiChuanDo people who are in the Valdosta Ga area. We would love to see how effective your techniques are.
Since you haven't emailed me as of yet, I checked over at Bullshido to see what prompted this sudden desire of yours to spar with us. It was plainly obvious that the guy on your forum claiming to represent GC/KCD was actually someone in your own house trolling while pretending to be one of us. We don't even talk like that and if you go to our forum you can clearly see that.
In addition, I contacted Omega earlier this year with an invite to come out and get some "hands on" training with us when we make it out to Cali for the seminar. I thought we'd get out there sooner but when we do I can assure you he will be notified.
Chillbert007 this guy's legs are like baseball bats swinging in multiple directions due to his superior body mechanics and free reactions. The last thing I would worry about is HIS foot being broken in battle.
I like this because it's natural. You all have heard of kicking and screaming...that's kind of what it looks like, except if you get hit...you may be screaming with 'em soon enough.
WHat happens after you get tired? and the attackers are still there ( now u might say that the guy in the video is fit but what about that fat guy that we seen in the other videos doign the slap thing...
(laughing) at "the slap thing". You youtubers continue to remain clueless. I've said it repeatedly but for some reason you all continue to misrepresent us. When we move we use dropping energy. A slap from one of us will be completely unified from the ground up and if you're as inexperienced as I suspect it'll probably create some significant internal damage when done with real force. One day it might make sense to you, but I seriously doubt you'll ever get out of your armchairs. Take care QBs.
that too is one of my concerns. while the principles are great it does use up vast amounts of energy not to mention in real life there may be broken glass or rocks on the ground. maybe even furniture and obstacles. so if you just flail about without a target or purpose then you're gonna lose that one, but if you use it wisely it may save you.
You raise good points. However, keep in mind that our strikes are always focused and never lack power. We would never flail about aimlessly for the sake of flailing. I can see how you can get that impression from these demos because we aren't really hitting one another with full power.
all those movements are a little spastic... and tiring..... that would be pointless to use in a fight a truely deadly system is simple and direct not complex and packed with useless moving
Great (sigh) another adolescent wannabe who has never seen any real violence in his life commenting on what he thinks works and doesn't work. FYI - You would have better luck putting your face into a blender than getting close to even one of those kicks in the video. And remember people, it's a demo of GROUND MOBILITY in the case that you should fall off your feet.
Are you serious? Catch has NOTHING to do with native Americans. It is an Anglo tradition brought over from British country fairs. Specifically Lancashire wool fairs.
Notice it says "West Virginia Cherokee Hill Country" not specifically Native American. Perkins' family was a mongrel mix of Cherokee and West Virginian and so was their fighting.
Hey whiteshark, looks like you're a Bullshido follower. I watched your clips and I must say that your fighting and the information spread on that forum is outdated and limited to UFC fantasies somewhere between 1993-99. It's understandable for someone thats only in it for competitive purposes or a good workout. But for someone as small as yourself, you would be far, far better served to take a very hard look at this system if you actually want to learn how to fight though.
I'm curious about the source for this video. I've been researching what little is known about Native American martial arts, and thus far, most of what I've learned comes from from an old journal from an early settler of the Oregon Territory who said, "The Indians tend to kick and wrestle a lot when they fight, but they never make closed fists for punching."
idunno im just asking it just seems like alot even against a knife attack there are better ways to fend it off and it also seems like alot you would probably get tired b4 the attacker from what ive seen anyway from what the video shows
Common sense isn't as common as you think. Its obviously a hitting drill as no sane individual would sit there purposely flailing away like that. If someone can't see that it's because they had no desire to see it in the first place.
Who dies first? The guy in the ideal stomping or mounting position or the guy standing, catching a lick or two from a grounded guy. Mind you, I love this demo, but as show in one of their other demos, getting to your feet is priority and you do not want to be on the ground. :)
The thread discusses this as a defense against a knife if you've fallen. That's where I thought you were going because you wouldn't be on the ground vs. a trash can. And if a trash can was "produced" after the knife you'd be able to get up and run anyway.
Assuming he wants to mount, guard or submit. But he doesn't, this is not a sport demo. The purpose is NOT to try to submit someone trying to stick a knife thru your brain. Also, no one said this guy's a vale tudo champ (he's a head bouncer). The vale tudo champ competed in the early '80's before BJJ was widely known.
Nothing to burst. I said BJJ wasn't widely known in the early '80's (before UFC 1) and that's still true even if it's a thousand years old. You said Brazil, not me.
Is this serious? Anyone with basic ground skills would simply grab your legs and pass/stomp/kick. And half the time he wasn't even looking up on him back, making it even easier for someone to pass his guard.
Many, MANY (including highly experienced grapplers and wrestlers) have tried to do just that, and failed. Remember that in combat, he's not just flailing his legs. Because of the partner training drills, his sensitivity to react to every movement of the enemy is greater than that of any grappler I've seen.
Classes in Nanuet, Hastings and Manhattan. The 2 head guys teach only out of Nanuet and Hastings. See CLASSES page of website. I personally come from JKD and found it a natural progression but with a heavy "tai chi-ish" influence.
I can see the idea in which he is moving so much and going in different directions so much that anyone who is going to attack the guy standing up gets knocked to the ground fast I mean if you think about it when you are in a street brawl and the guy wants you dead and he has you on the ground it's a good idea to use kicks to get him at bay so you can escape keep in mind this is if the guy wants to kill you.
It almost seemed as if he was trying to do something similar to Ditang Quan (Ground Tumbling Boxing). Is this really supposed to be derived from Native American groundfighting tactics?
Well, just type in Ditang Quan in the youtube search feature, and you'll find what you're looking for. I'm sure you'll be able to notice similarities. I'm just wondering how much of either contains grappling aspects on the ground.
The Ditang Quan clips on youtube were very entertaining but it's unclear how or whether they actually train it for combat. In Guided Chaos classes they actually drill it as part of free sparring and groundfighting/grappling.
What is the application of this particular drill? Is it meant to keep the other person from trying to go into a ground grappling situation or something else?
You always try to remain on your feet but if you feel you're falling, losing your balance or about to be thrown and can't stop it, the idea is to get to the ground first so you can launch another line of attack immediately (ground kicking) rather than waste precious miliseconds struggling and further entangling yourself grappling. In this art you don't grapple back, you train simultaneous evasion/striking at close range.
Hmm, wouldn't it be better to evade after going to the ground through breakfalling and rolling away? What would happen if the opponent tried a single leg or double leg takedown like in BJJ or in various forms of Wrestling?
You're right, it's always better to get away if you can, rolling or whatever. If you can't you use strikes that are banned in sports like elbows, knees and axe hands to the spine and windpipe, deep underhand bowling ball gouges to the eyes (as he goes low or locks onto a double leg) or stomp his head if he grabs onto one leg. This is for saving your life and obviously not for competition.
We'll see what we can do. How hard should the "opponent" be kicked in the shins/throat,etc. with steel-toed boots before he's allowed to stop resisting?
Who said kicking in this kind of retarded with any type of foot wear would be good? You're arguing that the person that is defending one's self will have steel toe boots, thats not always going to happen.
MMA fighter's goals: win by submission or knockout. Tools: techniques and strikes that must stay within the sport's rules. An assault victim's goals: survive and go home. Tools: any means necessary. Fact: The way you train is the way you fight. Tho MMA is very valuable the goals are not necessarily compatible.
Doesn't look like anything in this vudeo wouldnt be allowed in pride, but even there kicking from the ground is way lower percentage wise than actual grappling ability. Oh well.
...6.Groin attacks of any kind.7.Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or
laceration on an opponent.8.Small joint manipulation. 9.Striking to the spine or the back of the head.10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow...
...11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh. 13. Grabbing the clavicle.14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.16. Stomping a grounded opponent.17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
You don't think MMA fighters know how to do all that as well? Just because they don't use it in competition doesn't mean they don't study other things. Remember most MMA fighter have a martial arts background. Believe me, if you get in a street fight with a Chute Boxe guy, they aren't going to fight fair either.
first of all, i didn't say UFC, I said pride which has a different rule set, which in my opinion is more realistic when it comes to kicks to and from a grounded fighter. Second, none of the rules except for groin strikes would prevent anything I see in THIS video. Third, I've never worried about being attacked while working on a construction site or something. No one, not police, soldiers, security, people going out for an evening, is always going to be wearing steel-toes, why count on them?
^I'd have to agree with thatrugbyguy, all the moves you announced as illegal in UFC mattkivsky, I do not believe are able to be applied besides groin strikes in the video. This stuff on the ground would leave you very vunerable and ineffective.
people cant deal with pain that is why this shits legit. if you cant understand the reality in coordination idk start lookin for someone who knows this shit well and respect why they got there. THIS SHIT IS LEGIT HANDS DOWN. SOME OF THE BEST MMA FIGHTERS GUARANTEED TO RESPECT THIS. ITS THAT SIMPLE. ITS FIGHTING FOR SURVIVAL. THE MOST WORRY IS THE OPPONENTS SCREAM TO THIS STYLE FIGHTER. BETTER YET A TRUE TRIBE DEFENDING NATIVE. SAVAGE BLOOD BABE!
there is no coordination to this system, it's all random swinging. this also isn't fighting for survival, it's just annoyance and distraction to the attacker. the guy in the video has no center of balance and no technique. if the people who created in this system believed in it so much, they'd put it to the test with other fighters instead of training dummies.
This is exactly the technique I employed when I was attacked by a horde of dwarves back in '82. Sadly, it didn't work and I was captured and fed to Jamie, their pet liger,
HotBizniss 1 week ago
This is the funniest sh*t i've ever seen
xxslicexx 4 months ago 2
cockroach jutsu!!
hasmat202 5 months ago
Lol u would lose a lot of energy doin this...
CreamehPixels 6 months ago
@CreamehPixels That's why it's an exercise.
mattkovsky 6 months ago
@mattkovsky your max time??
CreamehPixels 6 months ago
@CreamehPixels For the exercise--slowly build up til exhausted. For real fight--5 seconds or until you can get up and run. Much longer (as with any real fight) and you're in trouble.
mattkovsky 6 months ago
@mattkovsky is this mostly for street fights?
CreamehPixels 6 months ago
@CreamehPixels It's only for self defense, completely inappropriate for sport.
mattkovsky 6 months ago
@CreamehPixels 4 days, 2 hours, 10 minutes and 15 1/2 seconds.
Lucanking 5 months ago
@CreamehPixels cockroach jutsu!!
hasmat202 5 months ago
@mattkovsky . . . love the website, love the idea behind it, love how its immediately away from attacker using any means nessesary to save your life... can't believe you've had all these 'dislikes' on your videos... it looks to be some real good stuff and just from watching these and reading your website I feel better prepared should be my life be under imminent threat at any time in the future. thanks very much.
ntomaylor 7 months ago
I am sure this guy is good, but he looks like he's having a seizure. Somebody put a spoon in his mouth.
shubroto81 8 months ago 7
@shubroto81 Spoon or no spoon, you don't want to be kicked by this guy.
mattkovsky 8 months ago
@mattkovsky In your opinion why don't u think this form of fighting or atleast a modified version of this form isn't used in the MMA?
shubroto81 8 months ago
@shubroto81 Not the least because one of our black belts is also a Gracie black belt and he'll tell you they couldn't be more different.
mattkovsky 8 months ago
@mattkovsky Ofcourse every martial art on the planet is different, thats what makes them beautiful BUT why hasn't anyone utilized these techineques in the MMa..maybe someone should.
shubroto81 8 months ago
@shubroto81 1) We're not very well known. 2) What we do is incompatible with sport fighting (other than looseness, which every competitive athlete needs). Dig around on our website; we have a whole bunch of articles on the subject.
mattkovsky 8 months ago
This looks like the Star Wars -kid trying to break dance. =P
TheCrazyFinn 8 months ago
that looks like break dancing
inbredagogo 9 months ago
Actually makes perfect sense.
amsablan 9 months ago
Many youtubers commenting here really have no clue about a real street fight or mugging. Have you ever been mugged on the street? Do you know how difficult it would be for a mugger or group of attackers to even grab or get a hand on someone doing these ground movements?! I mean really, it may look funny or strange to someone trained in a traditional dojo taught a one move response that isn't realistic, but this is what you should really do if you want a small chance of surviving an assault.
HermannTheGreat 11 months ago
@HermannTheGreat dun dun dun. smart muggers use guns..problem solved
sharinganguneye 9 months ago
@sharinganguneye I guess you're pro-muggers...
mattkovsky 9 months ago
this is a great technique, never seen anything like it, keeps you from getting mounted or gang kicked.
Stretedge 11 months ago
looks like a fish out of water
tjlovato1120 11 months ago 2
three stooges much?
LunasCraincloud 1 year ago
He has the Jimmy Legs!
m1ah88 1 year ago
it's kinda break dance.
HitMusicX 1 year ago
I used to do this when I was 10 and didn't want to get out of bed to go to school -- my mother hated it, blankets everywhere; but I'd be too hot to stay in bed and make my way to breakfast -- she always won, but my legs, my legs were "free" and could not be controlled............my legs were free.
OctoBox 1 year ago 11
Why isn't anyone helping him?
melbournaut 1 year ago 3
@megasayajinsongoku99 As I said above, Elephtheri Pali contains elements of the ancient art. How much is debatable, you'd need an archeologist to compare with depictions on ancient clay pottery. Take something like tai chi: according to hundred year old texts, even back then it wasn't being practiced correctly compared to its creators. True "combat" tai chi is almost extinct, mostly because of the purge under Mao. Ancient truths need to be rediscovered. Nothing is new under the sun.
mattkovsky 1 year ago
@mattkovsky Wow, thanks for posting this! Id like to learn more. Does ur video cover more of this art and its history? Are there any books ud recommend we take a look at? Thanks in advance!
bluwakpa 1 year ago
@bluwakpa The 2 1/2 hour dvd covers a lot of it as does our book. Email our site for more info if you like.
mattkovsky 1 year ago
''Counting coup'' was a awesome tactic of th native indians , they were truly very effective fighters ....
megasayajinsongoku99 1 year ago
It is unfair to say freestyle wrestling is from the Greeks , because freestyle wrestling is from catch as catch can wrestling who has traditions in the british fighting arts ...
I don't think that the martial arts of ancient Greece survived in a unbroken tradition untill today .... It is not fair to say all wrestling arts (japanese, mongolian, german , british , native indian etc.) are from the Greeks ..If so , one can also say that wrestling is ''invented'' from the ancient Aegyptians .
megasayajinsongoku99 1 year ago
@megasayajinsongoku99 According to our sources it has survived. Every culture has their form of fighting. Perkins has used what he learned from these particular cultures. The Greek-European connection would be stronger than an Asian or Middle eastern one for sure.
mattkovsky 1 year ago
the ancient Aegyptians had documented martial arts and wrestling traditions thousands years earlier of the ancient Greeks ..... Means that that the greek arts are from the aegyptians ? No , because many nations have those fighting traditions ....
So far I know is modern freestyle wrestling from british-american catch as catch can wrestling .... I think the ancient styles of greek wrestling are not survived, it was different than modern freestyle wrestling....
megasayajinsongoku99 1 year ago
@mattkovsky mean you with eleftheri pali freestyle wrestling ?? ? Freestlye wrestling is evolved sport from british catch wresling ....
''Native'' catch wrestling ??? I think catch wrestling is from the Anglo-Saxons ... why you say ''native '' catch wrestling ? 'native'' is a term for the indios ...
megasayajinsongoku99 1 year ago
@megasayajinsongoku99 Eleftheri Pali is Greek and related to Pancration and predates "British" wrestling by centuries. By "native catch" we're using a more common term than Native "Counting Koo [coup]" which would be meaningless to most people but refers to besting your enemy in ways so stealthy they don't even realize they've been defeated. Perkins combined all of this and modified it further with tai chi internal principles which mixed well with Native "anything goes" fighting methods.
mattkovsky 1 year ago
@mattkovsky Guided Chaos (Attack Proof) is truly a amazing system of fighting . Very natural and realistic. So far I understand it is a mix from ww2 combatives , asian arts and freestyle wrestling ( in greek ελεύθερα πάλη) .. I am Greek myself , I undertand some greek people who say that many arts ar from the Greeks but I think we must be objektive.... Many nations have martial arts and wrestling traditions ...... the ancient Greeks as the British too....
megasayajinsongoku99 1 year ago
Which Native American culture created this fighting style?
Ondus2000 1 year ago
@Ondus2000 John Perkins was trained by his part Cherokee father who was a West Virginian coal miner. Part of this training was "Native, catch-as-catch-can wrasslin' ". Whether it was specifically Cherokee or not is undetermined, however when we trained some NY Mohawks they indicated that it was close to what they had been taught on the reservation.
mattkovsky 1 year ago
i'll add this to my breakdancing repertory
crashburnerz 1 year ago
The impacts of the foot against the ground represent strikes against attackers who are also on the ground,
If the attacker is already on the ground then why would you also want to get on the ground with him? In that case you are giving up your tactical advantage by being over them in an advantageous position. You are also off your feet thus limiting your movement or ability to leave the area if others join the attacker.
apryor2006 1 year ago
@apryor2006 As we state a million times, this is a drill for training if you fall or are thrown to the ground. The impacts of the foot against the ground represent strikes against attackers who are also on the ground because they have fallen too and you need to incapacitate them so you can get up and run. They also represent strikes against the feet and shins of standing attackers.
mattkovsky 1 year ago
@mattkovsky Humn, I read back a few pages in this post and didn't find where you stated that a million times but maybe I missed it. Obviously it's a drill since you are demonstrating a training exercise but I think it would serve you better to practice something effective instead of flopping around on the ground. It's not impossible for the attacker to grab a leg or to jump on the defender when a leg kick misses and goes by. We see this (with resulting knockouts in MMA all the time.
apryor2006 1 year ago
@apryor2006 If you read the typical criticism of our vids in these threads it's repeated ad nauseum. The "flopping" (spinning, rolling) develops ground mobility. If you lay motionless like a flipped turtle (as in most arts) you're dead. In our tests with non-compliant attackers it is virtually impossible to grab a leg as it's pounding you with a boot if you're doing it right (not like in MMA which is barefoot and different).
mattkovsky 1 year ago
@mattkovsky if the attacker is standing then there are other , more effective ways of applying similar kicks from the ground. if he is on the ground with you then i highly doubt it is going to be effective or even necissary to flop around like this (as demonstrated).
apryor2006 1 year ago
@mattkovsky is this really influeced from the Native Indians? I mean I read a the time Attack Proof and it is very efective and simple .... But I don't know sure if it is only from the Indians ...
I mean Perkins has black belt 7 dan ... In which martial art is he trained ? In the book is written that many techniques of Attack Proof are based in WW2 combatives , who are influeced in a great part from ju jutzu..
megasayajinsongoku99 1 year ago
@megasayajinsongoku99 Native influences: read reply to @Ondus2000 above. Perkins trained in Native "catch wrestling" and WW CQC from age 5. Trained Hapkido, Tae Kwon Do, Tai Chi, Elephtheri Pali. Developed his own system in 1978 which is very different from most established styles but to outsiders looks like wing chun or Systema altho it has little in common with either. Uses principles a bagua or tai chi practitioner might recognize altho they will tell you it feels much different.
mattkovsky 1 year ago
Well before white people, how often do you think native Americans fought in parking lots... =P Not every Martial art is about fighting, some are still tought today as hobbies and history.
GuamKomudo 1 year ago
Dude, Gosts dont exist!
:D
zhache 2 years ago
@nbglass if your life was in danger you wouldn't even feel it. However the movements remain in your nervous system even though you use the mats for practice. The training gives you the ability to be very agile, and destructive, all at the same time.
skywalkr2000 2 years ago
Kintanon, the main schools are in New York. I'm in Chicago, so you can drop me an email if you're serious about doing your best to spar. You need to understand something though, we don't duel. It's all clinch (RANGE) stuff where you can move however you like.
UniversalStandards 2 years ago
I would like to see the impact of his feet hitting actual pavement and not a padded surface. Why? Because when your foot smacks into the ground sideways as it does in the video, you might just break your foot. The cushion on the ground really helps. Granted, I am not saying this could not work, just saying there is a better, safer way to kick. It does not make much sense to take out your own foot at the same time you are trying to take out your attacker, thus eliminating or hampering escape.
chilbert007 2 years ago
You completely misunderstand the exercise. 1-The impacts of the foot against the ground represent strikes against attackers who are also on the ground, thus the mat is serving as a horizontal 'heavy bag." 2-If you look carefully, he's not hitting with the side of the foot, the foot is angled at impact to hit with the sole...
mattkovsky 2 years ago
...3-Some of the kicks against the ground (that are not meant as body strikes) are completely flush; these use the rebounding effect of the shoe sole material to ricochet up into further kicks against standing attackers.
mattkovsky 2 years ago
How you practice is how you will perform. Being a fellow martial artist and musician I can tell you from experience that this is true. With how hard you can probably kick, I would really find out on a harder surface IF your chosen shoes can indeed absorb that rebound force. Theory is great, real practiced, tried and true action is better. It's all constructive criticism and I hope that you are not one of those people who can't see it for what it is. Just trying to help you not hurt yourself.
chilbert007 2 years ago
Appreciate the genuine interest, it's rare in the MA. This methodology is actually quite old (West Virginian Hill country/Native American) and has been used more recently by NY law enforcement.
mattkovsky 2 years ago
We've done it MANY times on harder surfaces and on people, never broken our own feet yet.
arikandel2002 2 years ago
I've kicked hard concrete in a garage with FULL FORCE in the manner you describe and it causes NO INJURY whatsoever. I'm not trying to be completely difficult, but the criticisms we get are 99% bullsh*t. All we ask from people of Bullshido and other doubters is that you actually come into a class and try it out before you criticize. It might actually prevent you guys from defending the indefensible. We actually are who we say we are, plain and simple.
UniversalStandards 2 years ago
I'm doing my best to arrange to spar with some Guided Chaos/KiChuanDo people who are in the Valdosta Ga area. We would love to see how effective your techniques are.
Kintanon 2 years ago
Are there any certified instructors in that area? Not so sure.. but if so report back and tell us what ya think.
skywalkr2000 2 years ago
Not in that area.
mattkovsky 2 years ago
Since you haven't emailed me as of yet, I checked over at Bullshido to see what prompted this sudden desire of yours to spar with us. It was plainly obvious that the guy on your forum claiming to represent GC/KCD was actually someone in your own house trolling while pretending to be one of us. We don't even talk like that and if you go to our forum you can clearly see that.
UniversalStandards 2 years ago 2
In addition, I contacted Omega earlier this year with an invite to come out and get some "hands on" training with us when we make it out to Cali for the seminar. I thought we'd get out there sooner but when we do I can assure you he will be notified.
UniversalStandards 2 years ago
Chillbert007 this guy's legs are like baseball bats swinging in multiple directions due to his superior body mechanics and free reactions. The last thing I would worry about is HIS foot being broken in battle.
skywalkr2000 2 years ago
MONKEY STYLE!
hunggarguy 3 years ago
i just read about this i do regular MMA ground fighting but to be the best you gotta study everthing you can learn.
VBH8888 3 years ago 3
Not all floors allow this fighting approach.
Btw it's surely innovative :-)
airwatching 3 years ago
if only i could break dance ilke this....
Link761 3 years ago 33
I like this because it's natural. You all have heard of kicking and screaming...that's kind of what it looks like, except if you get hit...you may be screaming with 'em soon enough.
scotttealey 3 years ago
I bet one of those ax kicks would destroy someone leg
ciggymarley 3 years ago
I do agree.
scotttealey 3 years ago
yes that would get tiring.. but i see it as more of a form/exercise.. im seeing sweeps, knee kicks, etc. in just a few motions.
madeku 3 years ago
Garth! your PILLS!!
kobudo4 3 years ago 7
WHat happens after you get tired? and the attackers are still there ( now u might say that the guy in the video is fit but what about that fat guy that we seen in the other videos doign the slap thing...
boocheey 4 years ago
they would probably use this style when they are thrown on the ground possibly as a counter. Of course the slap thing is their first defence.
mrmrmanhuman 4 years ago
(laughing) at "the slap thing". You youtubers continue to remain clueless. I've said it repeatedly but for some reason you all continue to misrepresent us. When we move we use dropping energy. A slap from one of us will be completely unified from the ground up and if you're as inexperienced as I suspect it'll probably create some significant internal damage when done with real force. One day it might make sense to you, but I seriously doubt you'll ever get out of your armchairs. Take care QBs.
UniversalStandards 4 years ago
that too is one of my concerns. while the principles are great it does use up vast amounts of energy not to mention in real life there may be broken glass or rocks on the ground. maybe even furniture and obstacles. so if you just flail about without a target or purpose then you're gonna lose that one, but if you use it wisely it may save you.
DEMONICSLOTHINDEED 3 years ago
You raise good points. However, keep in mind that our strikes are always focused and never lack power. We would never flail about aimlessly for the sake of flailing. I can see how you can get that impression from these demos because we aren't really hitting one another with full power.
UniversalStandards 3 years ago
I've always wondered if there were any Native American martial arts. What're they called, and where could I study them? :D
BlackstarSirius 4 years ago
all those movements are a little spastic... and tiring..... that would be pointless to use in a fight a truely deadly system is simple and direct not complex and packed with useless moving
actionmanrandell 4 years ago 2
Great (sigh) another adolescent wannabe who has never seen any real violence in his life commenting on what he thinks works and doesn't work. FYI - You would have better luck putting your face into a blender than getting close to even one of those kicks in the video. And remember people, it's a demo of GROUND MOBILITY in the case that you should fall off your feet.
skywalkr2000 4 years ago
Looks like he's possessed.
Guitarstar300 4 years ago
Believe it or not, that's the whole point of this drill.
UniversalStandards 4 years ago
The gym is built over an Indian burial ground.
givebeesachance 4 years ago 36
Slam your boots into the attacker Native American style? Didn't Native Americans wear Mocassins?
Do you guys also practice scalping techniques?
wombatfredman 4 years ago 7
1-Steel toe boots are even better... 2-Yes but we use Norelcos instead of tomahawks
mattkovsky 4 years ago
My uncle is a Mescalero Apache and grew up on White Mountain reservation in Arizona..
He said he never heard of any kind of Native American martial arts except for a type of wrestling they used to do back in the day..
I don't know where this stuff came from really but I don't think it came from Native Americans
wombatfredman 4 years ago 3
West Virginia Cherokee Hill Country "catch-as-catch-can" derived (but it has been modified by Perkins).
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Are you serious? Catch has NOTHING to do with native Americans. It is an Anglo tradition brought over from British country fairs. Specifically Lancashire wool fairs.
whiteshark27 4 years ago 2
Notice it says "West Virginia Cherokee Hill Country" not specifically Native American. Perkins' family was a mongrel mix of Cherokee and West Virginian and so was their fighting.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Hey whiteshark, looks like you're a Bullshido follower. I watched your clips and I must say that your fighting and the information spread on that forum is outdated and limited to UFC fantasies somewhere between 1993-99. It's understandable for someone thats only in it for competitive purposes or a good workout. But for someone as small as yourself, you would be far, far better served to take a very hard look at this system if you actually want to learn how to fight though.
UniversalStandards 4 years ago
I'm curious about the source for this video. I've been researching what little is known about Native American martial arts, and thus far, most of what I've learned comes from from an old journal from an early settler of the Oregon Territory who said, "The Indians tend to kick and wrestle a lot when they fight, but they never make closed fists for punching."
balletman 4 years ago
Everything you want to know is on the website attackproof(dot)com on the ABOUT page.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
so should you flail your arms wildly all crazy when standing?
juicejitsu 4 years ago
What gives you that idea?
mattkovsky 4 years ago
idunno im just asking it just seems like alot even against a knife attack there are better ways to fend it off and it also seems like alot you would probably get tired b4 the attacker from what ive seen anyway from what the video shows
juicejitsu 4 years ago
all you have to do is stay away from him and wait till he gets tired
broshamski 4 years ago 3
You and flamboyant don't get it: this is a drill. If the attacker has space and time to stand and wait then OBVIOUSLY you get up and run away. Duh.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Common sense isn't as common as you think. Its obviously a hitting drill as no sane individual would sit there purposely flailing away like that. If someone can't see that it's because they had no desire to see it in the first place.
UniversalStandards 4 years ago
who gets tired first, the guy on the ground or the guy who stands?
so you better get to the ground yourself because it is more tiresome to stand.
orkishiswithk 3 years ago
Who dies first? The guy in the ideal stomping or mounting position or the guy standing, catching a lick or two from a grounded guy. Mind you, I love this demo, but as show in one of their other demos, getting to your feet is priority and you do not want to be on the ground. :)
scotttealey 3 years ago 2
I guess this could be effective,if you had good stamina.
Flamboyant123 4 years ago
Call an ambulance he's having a seizure.
Braccarius 4 years ago 3
ok, what if you were in sand? i dont think that would do well, you should do a demonstration with your bat VS. a man throwing a trash can at you
uhhhnthony 4 years ago
A trash can that looks like a knife?
mattkovsky 4 years ago
who said anything about a knife?
uhhhnthony 4 years ago
The thread discusses this as a defense against a knife if you've fallen. That's where I thought you were going because you wouldn't be on the ground vs. a trash can. And if a trash can was "produced" after the knife you'd be able to get up and run anyway.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Assuming he wants to mount, guard or submit. But he doesn't, this is not a sport demo. The purpose is NOT to try to submit someone trying to stick a knife thru your brain. Also, no one said this guy's a vale tudo champ (he's a head bouncer). The vale tudo champ competed in the early '80's before BJJ was widely known.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Vale tudo is the portuguese term for mma.
BJJ has been popular in Brasil since Helio Gracie (the 1940s) and has been the dominant style in vale tudo since.
Sorry to burst your bubble.
ravenTJ1979 4 years ago
Nothing to burst. I said BJJ wasn't widely known in the early '80's (before UFC 1) and that's still true even if it's a thousand years old. You said Brazil, not me.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
lol, there are a lot of wholes to pass, apart from the fact that he can mobilise his hips quite well, the movements are not right...
I love the way he is a 'vale-tudo' champ... These 'champs' pop out of everythere lately
Tino13 4 years ago
Is this serious? Anyone with basic ground skills would simply grab your legs and pass/stomp/kick. And half the time he wasn't even looking up on him back, making it even easier for someone to pass his guard.
Chricton 4 years ago 7
Many, MANY (including highly experienced grapplers and wrestlers) have tried to do just that, and failed. Remember that in combat, he's not just flailing his legs. Because of the partner training drills, his sensitivity to react to every movement of the enemy is greater than that of any grappler I've seen.
arikandel2002 4 years ago
breakdancing? lol
Valetudo21 4 years ago
Classes in Nanuet, Hastings and Manhattan. The 2 head guys teach only out of Nanuet and Hastings. See CLASSES page of website. I personally come from JKD and found it a natural progression but with a heavy "tai chi-ish" influence.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
"Modified" NA grappling. Cherokee. Lots of info: attackproof(dot)com ABOUT page. Also google "counting koo".
mattkovsky 4 years ago
I can see the idea in which he is moving so much and going in different directions so much that anyone who is going to attack the guy standing up gets knocked to the ground fast I mean if you think about it when you are in a street brawl and the guy wants you dead and he has you on the ground it's a good idea to use kicks to get him at bay so you can escape keep in mind this is if the guy wants to kill you.
RockinMa4Bo 4 years ago
Yeah, but what about when you get tired of kicking???
861147 4 years ago
And what if the guy catches one of your feet and goes for a leg lock? You're out-of-luck then.
nhbwarrior 4 years ago 2
You get kicked in the head with the other leg.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
hes breakdance fighting!!!
walmartninja 4 years ago
I know for a fact someone had already said that the legs are getting cut...but good break dance moves
grtwhtbnr 4 years ago
Is he having a seizure or break dancing? I'm not sure....
wearemisled1 4 years ago 2
It almost seemed as if he was trying to do something similar to Ditang Quan (Ground Tumbling Boxing). Is this really supposed to be derived from Native American groundfighting tactics?
SubZero7th 4 years ago
Yes, and the stand-up stuff has been influenced by it also. Do you have any clips of Ditang Quan? That would be cool...
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Well, just type in Ditang Quan in the youtube search feature, and you'll find what you're looking for. I'm sure you'll be able to notice similarities. I'm just wondering how much of either contains grappling aspects on the ground.
SubZero7th 4 years ago
The Ditang Quan clips on youtube were very entertaining but it's unclear how or whether they actually train it for combat. In Guided Chaos classes they actually drill it as part of free sparring and groundfighting/grappling.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
What is the application of this particular drill? Is it meant to keep the other person from trying to go into a ground grappling situation or something else?
SubZero7th 4 years ago
You always try to remain on your feet but if you feel you're falling, losing your balance or about to be thrown and can't stop it, the idea is to get to the ground first so you can launch another line of attack immediately (ground kicking) rather than waste precious miliseconds struggling and further entangling yourself grappling. In this art you don't grapple back, you train simultaneous evasion/striking at close range.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Hmm, wouldn't it be better to evade after going to the ground through breakfalling and rolling away? What would happen if the opponent tried a single leg or double leg takedown like in BJJ or in various forms of Wrestling?
SubZero7th 4 years ago
You're right, it's always better to get away if you can, rolling or whatever. If you can't you use strikes that are banned in sports like elbows, knees and axe hands to the spine and windpipe, deep underhand bowling ball gouges to the eyes (as he goes low or locks onto a double leg) or stomp his head if he grabs onto one leg. This is for saving your life and obviously not for competition.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
LOL!!
do you have a video of this against a partner?
so we can see the true effectiveness of this technique
ninja1shinobi 4 years ago
We will have a lot of new videos in a few weeks.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
We're not saying you go to the ground as a first choice. But if you wind up there this is an option.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
LOL. I want to see this vs. a resisting opponent.
shmears2000 4 years ago 5
We'll see what we can do. How hard should the "opponent" be kicked in the shins/throat,etc. with steel-toed boots before he's allowed to stop resisting?
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Yes, and I'm sure in every self defence situation, you'll have steel toe boots on.
This argument is moot.
Oneshot112 4 years ago 7
Any shoes are better than barefoot. Kick a brick wall with your toes and with oxfords. Which is easier? Double moot.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Who said kicking in this kind of retarded with any type of foot wear would be good? You're arguing that the person that is defending one's self will have steel toe boots, thats not always going to happen.
Oneshot112 4 years ago 7
If you had read the comments that lead to this thread, you'd see they're comparing barefoot ring fighting to street self defense.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Actually no comments about barefoot fighting leads to shmears2000 post, which you have replied to.
Oneshot112 4 years ago 6
the comments that lead to this thread are rugbyguys directly above
mattkovsky 4 years ago
If it's so effective, why do no pro MMA guys use it?
1bad65 4 years ago
MMA fighter's goals: win by submission or knockout. Tools: techniques and strikes that must stay within the sport's rules. An assault victim's goals: survive and go home. Tools: any means necessary. Fact: The way you train is the way you fight. Tho MMA is very valuable the goals are not necessarily compatible.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
Doesn't look like anything in this vudeo wouldnt be allowed in pride, but even there kicking from the ground is way lower percentage wise than actual grappling ability. Oh well.
thatrugbyguy 4 years ago 5
Kicking with steel-toed boots is not allowed, they're barefoot! Other things we practice exclusively that aren't allowed in UFC:
1.Butting with the head. 2.Eye gouging of any kind. 3.Biting.4.Hair pulling.5.Fish hooking...
mattkovsky 4 years ago
...6.Groin attacks of any kind.7.Putting a finger into any orifice or into any cut or
laceration on an opponent.8.Small joint manipulation. 9.Striking to the spine or the back of the head.10. Striking downward using the point of the elbow...
mattkovsky 4 years ago
...11. Throat strikes of any kind, including, without limitation, grabbing the trachea.12. Clawing, pinching or twisting the flesh. 13. Grabbing the clavicle.14. Kicking the head of a grounded opponent.15. Kneeing the head of a grounded opponent.16. Stomping a grounded opponent.17. Kicking to the kidney with the heel.18. Spiking an opponent to the canvas on his head or neck.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
You don't think MMA fighters know how to do all that as well? Just because they don't use it in competition doesn't mean they don't study other things. Remember most MMA fighter have a martial arts background. Believe me, if you get in a street fight with a Chute Boxe guy, they aren't going to fight fair either.
kuzuboshii 4 years ago 7
Good for you. Keep on practicing. Everybody gets better.
mattkovsky 4 years ago
first of all, i didn't say UFC, I said pride which has a different rule set, which in my opinion is more realistic when it comes to kicks to and from a grounded fighter. Second, none of the rules except for groin strikes would prevent anything I see in THIS video. Third, I've never worried about being attacked while working on a construction site or something. No one, not police, soldiers, security, people going out for an evening, is always going to be wearing steel-toes, why count on them?
thatrugbyguy 4 years ago 7
^I'd have to agree with thatrugbyguy, all the moves you announced as illegal in UFC mattkivsky, I do not believe are able to be applied besides groin strikes in the video. This stuff on the ground would leave you very vunerable and ineffective.
Oneshot112 4 years ago 7
blows from the gorund are way harder dude.
people cant deal with pain that is why this shits legit. if you cant understand the reality in coordination idk start lookin for someone who knows this shit well and respect why they got there. THIS SHIT IS LEGIT HANDS DOWN. SOME OF THE BEST MMA FIGHTERS GUARANTEED TO RESPECT THIS. ITS THAT SIMPLE. ITS FIGHTING FOR SURVIVAL. THE MOST WORRY IS THE OPPONENTS SCREAM TO THIS STYLE FIGHTER. BETTER YET A TRUE TRIBE DEFENDING NATIVE. SAVAGE BLOOD BABE!
inevitablekiller 3 years ago
there is no coordination to this system, it's all random swinging. this also isn't fighting for survival, it's just annoyance and distraction to the attacker. the guy in the video has no center of balance and no technique. if the people who created in this system believed in it so much, they'd put it to the test with other fighters instead of training dummies.
djxsubzero 3 years ago
not many people wear steel toe boots,I suppose youve tested this full contact regularly.
billysue2 3 years ago
Yeah, you're right. Most people are barefooted and wear speedos. Durf.
UniversalStandards 3 years ago
it looks like he's throwing a tantrum
tekhamster 5 years ago
After seeing the "grappling vs knife" video this actually looks really effective if you end up on the ground and the other guy has a knife
dice283 5 years ago
Looks like a break dancer who smoked some PCP! Have any videos of that in action...say, against another person?
TheClips 5 years ago
Yes, more coming.
mattkovsky 5 years ago