@jnlantes2000 You can, but ideally, you don't need it. The beauty is that you can use a REAL console and punch in corrections etc. without a computer, mixing with a mouse and using expensive proprietary hardware/plugins. However, there's Lightpipe in the back so you can beam the tracks to another ADAT or virtually any multitrack software you want, including PT. I don't use this machine much, but everything I record gets backed up to hard drive this way.
@poshi12 There's no real comparison as open-reel machines and tape vary greatly in quality. The frequency response of ADAT is about 10Hz-20KHz and drops like a rock above that. My AMPEX is more like 25Hz-26KHz but it's a smooth slope that continues beyond that. Noise and distortion are lower on ADAT but there's inter-modulation and alias distortion due to the digital sampling. Subjectively, the ADAT is cold and brittle. GOOD open-reel is smooth & ambient.
@poshi12 SVHS, technically. Alesis, in the early 90s, came out with machine that could record forty minutes of eight digital audio tracks on SVHS tapes. Look up "Alesis Digital Audio Tape" on the net and you'll find a wealth of information. They pretty much revolutionized the home studio market because they were fairly cheap and you could link a bunch together for more tracks.
Behringer vaunts their "British EQ" above just about everything else, LOL! I'll look into that A &H. We're not "pros" or anything on my end. We're preoccupied with mid-60s-type garage rock, and I actually muck up the signal path on purpose with this Joe Meek box and /or this Presonus tube box I've got. Sounds dumb, but with our kind of stuff it makes sense. IF that Xenyx didn't work out, I could just send it back. Thx! I will look into that mixer, tho.
@gwugluud I still don't know of anybody who even knows what "British EQ" means. There's mixers with "British EQ" that have great EQ and others that have awful EQ. I think it's just a buzz word.
@wado1942 I know; that's why I was mocking it, there, LOL! It can be harder to convey nuances of meaning in print than face-to-face. I notice the A & H also has "Brit" EQ...But they're based in the UK...xD...Hey, the Behringers get sorry marks for reliability, and the a & h is only a little more, and it's brick-solid! I do have a small 4-ch Behringer mixer I bought cos it was so cheap and could give me 2 more sources of phantom power.
(con't)..You'll cringe, but I'll use it to route signals, usually drums, into the Mackie...I've had it for 7-8 years now and it fires up fine, and it's very clean. Maybe I lucked out? heh heh! Hmm, the Behringer has subgroups; the a&h doesn't. I'd like that feature. ...I enjoy talking gear, sorry...xD....Thx, man!
@gwugluud I used a Xenyx to route echoes & such until recently. Just because it works, doesn't mean it has sufficient sound quality or features. I had a Mackie 4-buss in the years I recorded to my TEAC 80-8, but always hated the EQ. I quickly realized that it wasn't going to cut it feature-wise or quality-wise even before I got my 16-track. I rarely use sub-groups, except when mixing for surround, but having higher headroom, more AUXs, better routing etc is important.
Sorry to bug u again, but you've got good answers, lol ! I may go w/ a Behringer Xenyx, which has direct outs per channel...Now, these are billed as "live" mixers. But as long as there are direct ch outputs, and enough channels for the additional 8 tracks of the ADAT to output to (the method I'm used to), what would keep a "live" mixer from being suitable for "studio" use? Nothing, right? What am I not thinking of? Thx!
@gwugluud I've mixed on everything from a 40 year old 8-channel live mixer to $80,000+ digital mixers just fine. However, I'd suggest holding out for something of decent quality like an A & H Mixwizard. You'll find the shortcomings of the Xenyx very quickly. Also, the EQ in the Xenyx is useless and you can't bypass it so it's always influencing the sound. There's dozens of op-amps and capacitors between the input and the direct as well. Keep the signal path as short as possible.
So, the 1/4" cables of my board-to-ADAT snake could serve as "insert cables" for the function you describe? If I'm understanding right, then that is the answer. Basically, the efx inserts of a mixer, if present, may serve as "direct outs", in a pinch? I'm just making sure I have all this right. Thank you!
@gwugluud Yes, but you have to use adapters that are TRS on the male end and TS on the female end like Radio Shack #274-1520
It's not quite the same as a direct output because it'll be pre-EQ & pre-fader, which I think is better honestly because there's fewer electronics in the line. Real, honest to goodness insert cables would be the ideal way to go though.
I recently dug out my ADAT and Mackie 16 ch mixer. ADAT fired up, and works! Last time buds came to record w/ me, I used it instead of my Boss BR1600. I luv having pan controls right there, and having aux for efx send/return. My mixer is cutting out, tho. ??? How do I set up with a cheap mixer such as the 1 u have??? My Mackie has ch direct outs, but a mixer like yours doesn't.. How to configure?? Thx.
@gwugluud I actually used an external preamp for most of that, but I got some 1/4" stereo to mono adapters from Rat Shack that let me plug into the channel inserts. That lets me send a signal from the mixer's preamps to the ADAT (or whatever) without interrupting the signal. You'd have to unplug them for replay though. Otherwise, you could actually use insert cables and just put the ADAT inline between the preamp & the rest of the mixer.
@Wardell43 Do yourself a favor and look online for "ADAT: Power User's Guide" and "Recording Tricks: Alesis ADAT Recorders"
Those two pages will tell you all the important stuff that isn't in the manual. The most important thing I can suggest for starters is cleaning the tape path using the method described in the "Recording Tricks" page. You don't know how that machine was treated or stored and a proper clean will do nothing but good.
Goes to show what you can get with some good sounding instruments and a little know-how. Allot of people would claim it's impossible to get anything sounding that good without spending allot more money on mic's, pres, gear, room treatment, PTHD, on & on... Nice job! :)
@ChatBlancAudio Thanks. I've heard some decent stuff recorded on 4-track cassette. I've also heard 1/2 million $ studios with 2" 24-track machines, PTHD (there's better sounding systems out there BTW) or whatever else spit out absolute crap. I used to rag on ADATs for their characteristic brittle sound, but the clocks, converters and analogue circuits are actually better than a lot of 24-bit stuff in common use today! I may eventually write an article about it for my web site.
@Reddigitalmusic Thanks. If I ever come back to it and complete it (the whole thing is about 7 minutes but no vocals or melody) I'll make a more serious attempt at mixing. This one's pretty raw and clipped.
question? can you use pro tools with this?
jnlantes2000 1 week ago
@jnlantes2000 You can, but ideally, you don't need it. The beauty is that you can use a REAL console and punch in corrections etc. without a computer, mixing with a mouse and using expensive proprietary hardware/plugins. However, there's Lightpipe in the back so you can beam the tracks to another ADAT or virtually any multitrack software you want, including PT. I don't use this machine much, but everything I record gets backed up to hard drive this way.
wado1942 1 week ago
hows this sound as apposed to a reel to reel?
poshi12 1 month ago
@poshi12 There's no real comparison as open-reel machines and tape vary greatly in quality. The frequency response of ADAT is about 10Hz-20KHz and drops like a rock above that. My AMPEX is more like 25Hz-26KHz but it's a smooth slope that continues beyond that. Noise and distortion are lower on ADAT but there's inter-modulation and alias distortion due to the digital sampling. Subjectively, the ADAT is cold and brittle. GOOD open-reel is smooth & ambient.
wado1942 1 month ago
wait.....Your recording on a VHS? explain please..Please?
poshi12 1 month ago
@poshi12 SVHS, technically. Alesis, in the early 90s, came out with machine that could record forty minutes of eight digital audio tracks on SVHS tapes. Look up "Alesis Digital Audio Tape" on the net and you'll find a wealth of information. They pretty much revolutionized the home studio market because they were fairly cheap and you could link a bunch together for more tracks.
wado1942 1 month ago
Behringer vaunts their "British EQ" above just about everything else, LOL! I'll look into that A &H. We're not "pros" or anything on my end. We're preoccupied with mid-60s-type garage rock, and I actually muck up the signal path on purpose with this Joe Meek box and /or this Presonus tube box I've got. Sounds dumb, but with our kind of stuff it makes sense. IF that Xenyx didn't work out, I could just send it back. Thx! I will look into that mixer, tho.
gwugluud 4 months ago
@gwugluud I still don't know of anybody who even knows what "British EQ" means. There's mixers with "British EQ" that have great EQ and others that have awful EQ. I think it's just a buzz word.
wado1942 4 months ago
@wado1942 I know; that's why I was mocking it, there, LOL! It can be harder to convey nuances of meaning in print than face-to-face. I notice the A & H also has "Brit" EQ...But they're based in the UK...xD...Hey, the Behringers get sorry marks for reliability, and the a & h is only a little more, and it's brick-solid! I do have a small 4-ch Behringer mixer I bought cos it was so cheap and could give me 2 more sources of phantom power.
gwugluud 4 months ago
(con't)..You'll cringe, but I'll use it to route signals, usually drums, into the Mackie...I've had it for 7-8 years now and it fires up fine, and it's very clean. Maybe I lucked out? heh heh! Hmm, the Behringer has subgroups; the a&h doesn't. I'd like that feature. ...I enjoy talking gear, sorry...xD....Thx, man!
gwugluud 4 months ago
@gwugluud I used a Xenyx to route echoes & such until recently. Just because it works, doesn't mean it has sufficient sound quality or features. I had a Mackie 4-buss in the years I recorded to my TEAC 80-8, but always hated the EQ. I quickly realized that it wasn't going to cut it feature-wise or quality-wise even before I got my 16-track. I rarely use sub-groups, except when mixing for surround, but having higher headroom, more AUXs, better routing etc is important.
Good luck!
wado1942 4 months ago
Sorry to bug u again, but you've got good answers, lol ! I may go w/ a Behringer Xenyx, which has direct outs per channel...Now, these are billed as "live" mixers. But as long as there are direct ch outputs, and enough channels for the additional 8 tracks of the ADAT to output to (the method I'm used to), what would keep a "live" mixer from being suitable for "studio" use? Nothing, right? What am I not thinking of? Thx!
gwugluud 4 months ago
@gwugluud I've mixed on everything from a 40 year old 8-channel live mixer to $80,000+ digital mixers just fine. However, I'd suggest holding out for something of decent quality like an A & H Mixwizard. You'll find the shortcomings of the Xenyx very quickly. Also, the EQ in the Xenyx is useless and you can't bypass it so it's always influencing the sound. There's dozens of op-amps and capacitors between the input and the direct as well. Keep the signal path as short as possible.
wado1942 4 months ago
So, the 1/4" cables of my board-to-ADAT snake could serve as "insert cables" for the function you describe? If I'm understanding right, then that is the answer. Basically, the efx inserts of a mixer, if present, may serve as "direct outs", in a pinch? I'm just making sure I have all this right. Thank you!
gwugluud 4 months ago
@gwugluud Yes, but you have to use adapters that are TRS on the male end and TS on the female end like Radio Shack #274-1520
It's not quite the same as a direct output because it'll be pre-EQ & pre-fader, which I think is better honestly because there's fewer electronics in the line. Real, honest to goodness insert cables would be the ideal way to go though.
wado1942 4 months ago
I recently dug out my ADAT and Mackie 16 ch mixer. ADAT fired up, and works! Last time buds came to record w/ me, I used it instead of my Boss BR1600. I luv having pan controls right there, and having aux for efx send/return. My mixer is cutting out, tho. ??? How do I set up with a cheap mixer such as the 1 u have??? My Mackie has ch direct outs, but a mixer like yours doesn't.. How to configure?? Thx.
gwugluud 4 months ago
@gwugluud I actually used an external preamp for most of that, but I got some 1/4" stereo to mono adapters from Rat Shack that let me plug into the channel inserts. That lets me send a signal from the mixer's preamps to the ADAT (or whatever) without interrupting the signal. You'd have to unplug them for replay though. Otherwise, you could actually use insert cables and just put the ADAT inline between the preamp & the rest of the mixer.
wado1942 4 months ago
I love the video too! Are you guys Quadruplets?? Anyhow, Thanks for the Demo, I just bought a used Blackface and I'm working out the possibilities!
Wardell43 5 months ago
@Wardell43 Do yourself a favor and look online for "ADAT: Power User's Guide" and "Recording Tricks: Alesis ADAT Recorders"
Those two pages will tell you all the important stuff that isn't in the manual. The most important thing I can suggest for starters is cleaning the tape path using the method described in the "Recording Tricks" page. You don't know how that machine was treated or stored and a proper clean will do nothing but good.
wado1942 5 months ago
Cleanest sounding mix I've heard in....ahh, problem is, it's the cleanest I have heard.
RadeonZero 6 months ago
Goes to show what you can get with some good sounding instruments and a little know-how. Allot of people would claim it's impossible to get anything sounding that good without spending allot more money on mic's, pres, gear, room treatment, PTHD, on & on... Nice job! :)
ChatBlancAudio 6 months ago
@ChatBlancAudio Thanks. I've heard some decent stuff recorded on 4-track cassette. I've also heard 1/2 million $ studios with 2" 24-track machines, PTHD (there's better sounding systems out there BTW) or whatever else spit out absolute crap. I used to rag on ADATs for their characteristic brittle sound, but the clocks, converters and analogue circuits are actually better than a lot of 24-bit stuff in common use today! I may eventually write an article about it for my web site.
wado1942 6 months ago
Hmm cool, sounds clean too
Reddigitalmusic 6 months ago
@Reddigitalmusic Thanks. If I ever come back to it and complete it (the whole thing is about 7 minutes but no vocals or melody) I'll make a more serious attempt at mixing. This one's pretty raw and clipped.
wado1942 6 months ago
@wado1942 Ayyy sounds good to us!
Reddigitalmusic 6 months ago
Cool.
VMATT500C 6 months ago