This is a good approximation I've seen put to better use on Atari ST demo tunes, but it sounds nowhere near as good as a real SID. Still no ADSR, filters, modulation and suchlike, but objectively speaking this is a good result for the YM chip, but it's no SID beater.
Well, this is not SID chip emulation from C64, but "SID" is called a technique of playing of YM chip on Atari ST, which is emulated here. So C64 SID and Atari ST (this one) SID are DIFFERENT things!
how can it sound better than a SID chip? If it doesn't sound the same as one - it isn't emulated correctly. Pity the demo maker didn't use a classic C64 tune for comparison - a Jeroen Tel piece from Cybernoid, Supremacy, Stormlord or Robocop 3 for example. Also, it would be more convincing if the video was done with a digital camcorder showing the original speccy and letting us hear the sound come out of the speakers naturally. This music could be just editted onto the video.
I hear alot of PWM, but no ring mod. or sync. or ring+sync or ring+sync+band-pass filters. Very hard to emulate correctly on even a modern computer, let alone a Z80. Nice try...
LOL :P . The YM is not nearly as good as the SID chip. To make the YM do PWM, they have to send new data to the YM registers at very high rates, which make the Z80 processor overloaded. It takes almost all processor power to make this possible. But there is no way that they could emulate the triangle wave, saw wave, ring modulation or filter of the SID. The sid IS superior in every way, thats fact!
No one said the YM or AY chips were better than the SID. This is about an achievement. :) You may be seeing the Spectrum playing .mod files soon, but that's another story. :D
Ah, but i didn't say the YM or AY are better. I just love the sound better if programmed by a skilled programmer. The SID's design is far superiour for sure.
It's just a personal preference and thats why i used " In. My. Opinion."
when i was a kid I had my spectrum rigged to a very loud stereo, and the raw square wave basslines were earth shattering. Whilst the music on my mates c64s were better, they were all played through their crappy TV's. To answer your question, a 50/50 with no filter produces the most intense bass possible. You need to hear it on a 15" subwoofer to appreciate it.
As a fan of bass I've always liked square waves, In UK Grime (a sub genre of UK Garage music) a lot of producers used 50/50 squares put through a LPF. Whilst grime sounded quite simple at home when you heard it in a night club it was a whole different experience, people would go mental for the basslines.
Search youtube for backtro amstrad. The second part of this demo shows that there's enough Z80 power to do other cool things as well :) And yes, you can emulate triangle and saw waves. It's called in Atari world "Sinus-SID" . All you need to do is use a small sample instead of the square generator and there you go! It's the same how Amiga plays those SID'ish chiptunes.
i was actually reffering to the FM series of YM chip like the YM2612 found in the megadrive but maybe my comments arent welcome here .. im talking about 16bit era .. :P
dont get me wrong SID is an awsome chip but to me nothing can beat the sound of the YM2612 .. ahh nostalgia..
It's not really a SID emulation. They make it sound like SID sounds in a more or less the same way as they do it for the YM in the Atari ST and for the POKEY in the Atari 8-bits. It doesnt sound exactly the same. I.m.o it sounds better then the SID and it makes these chips sounding more versatile then the SID.
Sorry, but the SID is far more versatile. Why? Because it can emulate a AY/YM chip very well, listen to AY_Tester.SID by 4Mat. Pretty close to a perfect emulation of the AY/YM IMO.
This is a good approximation I've seen put to better use on Atari ST demo tunes, but it sounds nowhere near as good as a real SID. Still no ADSR, filters, modulation and suchlike, but objectively speaking this is a good result for the YM chip, but it's no SID beater.
inphanta 2 years ago
the music at 5:05 is amazing. What's the name of this one anyone?
mistertentpole 2 years ago
hi
it sounds like 'Our House' from Madness
retro8059000 2 years ago 2
Well, this is not SID chip emulation from C64, but "SID" is called a technique of playing of YM chip on Atari ST, which is emulated here. So C64 SID and Atari ST (this one) SID are DIFFERENT things!
factor6 3 years ago
how can it sound better than a SID chip? If it doesn't sound the same as one - it isn't emulated correctly. Pity the demo maker didn't use a classic C64 tune for comparison - a Jeroen Tel piece from Cybernoid, Supremacy, Stormlord or Robocop 3 for example. Also, it would be more convincing if the video was done with a digital camcorder showing the original speccy and letting us hear the sound come out of the speakers naturally. This music could be just editted onto the video.
robbiew73 3 years ago
I hear alot of PWM, but no ring mod. or sync. or ring+sync or ring+sync+band-pass filters. Very hard to emulate correctly on even a modern computer, let alone a Z80. Nice try...
jci10 3 years ago
LOL :P . The YM is not nearly as good as the SID chip. To make the YM do PWM, they have to send new data to the YM registers at very high rates, which make the Z80 processor overloaded. It takes almost all processor power to make this possible. But there is no way that they could emulate the triangle wave, saw wave, ring modulation or filter of the SID. The sid IS superior in every way, thats fact!
Ahle2 4 years ago
No one said the YM or AY chips were better than the SID. This is about an achievement. :) You may be seeing the Spectrum playing .mod files soon, but that's another story. :D
zxspectrum128 4 years ago
RazorFastClaws said "I.m.o it sounds better then the SID and it makes these chips sounding more versatile then the SID."
It was a response to that statement.
Whith the same tricks used on the SID, the result is almost to good to be true :)
Ahle2 4 years ago
Ah, but i didn't say the YM or AY are better. I just love the sound better if programmed by a skilled programmer. The SID's design is far superiour for sure.
It's just a personal preference and thats why i used " In. My. Opinion."
RazorFastClaws 3 years ago
But still, the SID can sound EXACTLY the same !
Ofcourse nobody sat the PWM register to 50:50 duty cycle and only used square waves without filter. (why should they?)
Still i´m VERY impressed by some YM/AY tunes.
Ahle2 3 years ago
when i was a kid I had my spectrum rigged to a very loud stereo, and the raw square wave basslines were earth shattering. Whilst the music on my mates c64s were better, they were all played through their crappy TV's. To answer your question, a 50/50 with no filter produces the most intense bass possible. You need to hear it on a 15" subwoofer to appreciate it.
leerees 2 years ago
As a fan of bass I've always liked square waves, In UK Grime (a sub genre of UK Garage music) a lot of producers used 50/50 squares put through a LPF. Whilst grime sounded quite simple at home when you heard it in a night club it was a whole different experience, people would go mental for the basslines.
leerees 2 years ago
Search youtube for backtro amstrad. The second part of this demo shows that there's enough Z80 power to do other cool things as well :) And yes, you can emulate triangle and saw waves. It's called in Atari world "Sinus-SID" . All you need to do is use a small sample instead of the square generator and there you go! It's the same how Amiga plays those SID'ish chiptunes.
asicys 4 years ago
YM is way fucking better than the SID!
And i enjoyed this demo none the less! My hats off to the creator!
amigaknight 3 years ago
So even though the SID can sound EXACTLY the same as the YM, you still think the YM is better ?
I don´t get your reasoning!
The YM is one of the simplest sound chip in the 8bit era, only capable of producing sqaure waves without PWM and some 1bit pseudo noice.
I´m even more surprised to see that you are interested in synthesizers.
Then you must know what PWM, Resonance, Ring modulation, LP/HP/BP filter, Triangle, Saw waves are.
Take the YM add these things and you have got your self a SID
Ahle2 3 years ago
i was actually reffering to the FM series of YM chip like the YM2612 found in the megadrive but maybe my comments arent welcome here .. im talking about 16bit era .. :P
dont get me wrong SID is an awsome chip but to me nothing can beat the sound of the YM2612 .. ahh nostalgia..
amigaknight 3 years ago
That´s a matter of oppinion though, because the sound generation in the YM2612 is fundamentally different from the SID.
Personally i have a love/hate relationship to FM sounds. The 7 OP Yamaha DX7 can generate some AWESOME sounds when programmed properly.
But the <=4 OP FM sound chips can sound awful/squeaky when not properly programmed (most Genesis games)
Ahle2 3 years ago
SID can produce sounds in more ways than YM.And SID can produce any sound YM can.
xxxogchris 3 years ago
Is this for real? An amazing achievement for a Spectrum. How is this done?
alaggan 4 years ago
Still love this. Was stunned when it first appeared a couple years back :)
fzxizu 4 years ago
Great work but too much bloody babble. We need flashing colours, not a lecture!
taucias 4 years ago
I don't understand how some people could put low star ratings on this clip. (Or, it's indicative of "noobs.")
Getting a Spectrum to emulate the Commodore SID chip is definitely something here. And, it sounds great.
Intersonus903 4 years ago
It's not really a SID emulation. They make it sound like SID sounds in a more or less the same way as they do it for the YM in the Atari ST and for the POKEY in the Atari 8-bits. It doesnt sound exactly the same. I.m.o it sounds better then the SID and it makes these chips sounding more versatile then the SID.
RazorFastClaws 4 years ago
Thanks.
Intersonus903 4 years ago
Sorry, but the SID is far more versatile. Why? Because it can emulate a AY/YM chip very well, listen to AY_Tester.SID by 4Mat. Pretty close to a perfect emulation of the AY/YM IMO.
vermillionsands 4 years ago
Many have tried... but all have failed... until now. Major props for you.
RABBIDGamfan 4 years ago
Or... maybe not you. Major props should go to those who created this awesome demo.
RABBIDGamfan 4 years ago
My thoughts exactly. I simply upload the videos to youtube. Props to those who deserve it.
zxspectrum128 4 years ago
Nice soundtrack, can you download the tunes from somewhere and how can you play them in Windows? Any players around?
cv643d 4 years ago
I believe wikipedia has a few links to SID players for Windows.
zxspectrum128 4 years ago
Ah.. so it is genuine SID tunes playing? I have the HVSC collection here, anyone got a tracklist so I can find the tunes?
cv643d 4 years ago
This is seriosuly awesome.
KitsuneDarkStalker 5 years ago
WTF, how is this possible?
KitsuneDarkStalker 5 years ago
amazing new sound! More, more!:)
Jaan/PHT
jaanpht 5 years ago