"A pretensão de provar que René Schehr é Papillon caem por terra com uma simples leitura das fontes consultadas e com o testemunho de antigos moradores de Boa Vista, conhecedores dos fatos". Mauricio Habert Filho, descendente de Maurice Habert, um dos companheiros de Rene Scher, no livro EU CONTESTO! Por favor, não me faça postar o livro inteiro aqui e procure investigar a matéria e ler também DRY GUILLOTINE E HELL ON TRIAL para se inteirar devidamente. A história de Arantes só tem furos. OK?
Conocí a Henri a finales de 1969 o quizás a principio de 1970, en el bar "Cosmos" de Barcelona. Yo era un jovencito con inquietudes teatrales "pertenecía a la compañía Taller de teatro de Barcelona", Henri me esperaba en dicho bar siempre que yo acudía a ensayar. A mi me cautivaba sus historias, para mi muy fantasiosas ya que por entonces no era consciente del personaje que había conocido. Al morir Henri en 1973, me dí cuenta de lo importante que fue. Me arrepiento haber dudado de él. F.G
I believe a man like Henri Charriere, should be admired for the spirit with which he faced the difficulties, the desire to live and demonstrate what he deserved a life worth living as a free man ..... LONG LIVE PAPILLON
Credo che un uomo come Henri Charriere, vada ammirato x lo spirito con cui ha affrontato le difficoltà, x la voglia di vivere e dimostrare quanto anche lui meritasse una vita degna di essere vissuta da uomo libero.....LONG LIVE PAPILLON
CentinelThe: "Dry Guillotin" from Rene Belbenoit is another book about another man, he was also a prisoner in French Guyana, but Papillon experience was real.
René Belbenoit was apparently the real man behind the Papillon story , I'm not sure but some research made doubtful about Henry Charriere, I wish I knew the real truth.
Essas mentiras perduraram por 40 anos e somente em 2009, é que se sabe que o verdadeiro escritor foi René Belbenoit, conhecido na Colônia Penal da Guiana Francesa como Papillon, por ter uma borboleta azul tatuada em seu peito (borboleta, em Francês, é Papillon). Ele construiu, em 1935, uma jangada com dezenas de sacos cheios de cocos amarrados a pedaços de paus, liderando a fuga de oito homens daquele inferno colonial. Charriére foi um destes 8 homens que conseguiram fugir. Esta é a verdade.
@MeisieBoere segundo: Efectivamente, si fuera como vos desís despues de publicado el segundo libro "BANCO" se notaria la diferencia y es el mismo estilo, esto indepndientemente que la gente de Venezuela sabe y conoció a Papillon afirma que era capaz de eso y más de lo que dice su libro, existen fotos en Honduras de su primer fuga, en ese penal, y es el mismo Henri charriére, así como tambien pocos saben que para hacer la pelicula, Dostin Hofman se entrevistó con el autentico Luis Dega.
@valz63 tambien hay unas fotos de henri charriere( papillon) que lo muestran junto a un grupo de profugos en la ciudad de barranquilla(colombia) la foto es como de los años 40.En aquella epoca fue novedad, el grupo de franceses que se escaparon de las guyanas ,que llegaron hacia la guajira y santamarta.Eso fue justo despues de haber estado preso en santa marta cuando fue trasladado a una carcel de barranquilla
Até o início da década de 60, Henri Charrière não tinha a tatuagem da borboleta em seu peito e era conhecido pelos venezuelanos como “Francês”. Os direitos autorais recebidos por Charrière foram expressivos (fala-se em mais de um milhão de dólares), no meu entender seu único erro foi não ter repassado parte desse dinheiro para René o verdadeiro autor.Publicado em 1969, o livro “Papillon”, assinado por Henri Charrière, chegou às livrarias denunciando todas as atrocidades cometidas .
@MeisieBoere: No lo creo el perfil de personalidad y psicologico de Papillón, demuestran que era un hombre de valor y si fuera el personaje que vos aseguras hubiera reclamado, eso es por una parte por otra el gobierno frances al ver el ridiculo, al que fue expuesto por Charrière aclararia las cosas, recordemos que Papillón, fue a dar conferencias a Francia y en otras partes del mundo cuando todos los actores de su biografia estaban vivos, y resulta que hoy que en su mayoria ya están muertos.
@valz63 Realmente valz63 , hoje todos os protagonistas da história já estão mortos. Pode-se dar o assunto por encerrado. Mas o laudo da Polícia Federal Brasileira é algo muito sério. Existe mesmo um senador Brasileiro que se pronunciou sobre este caso , no congresso nacional. Para aqueles que não querem aceitar a verdade , que fiquem com a mentira estabelecida. Assistí várias vezes ao filme Papillon , mas hoje sabendo da verdade não quero assistir novamente. Muito obrigado e abraços do Brasil.
@MeisieBoere Não existe nenhuma "mentira estabelecida por 40 anos", pois o livro foi polêmico desde a publicação e a edição portuguesa alertava para o fato damudança de nomes e lugares, poistodo livro ou filme sofre adaptações. A contracapa brasileira de "Banco" também se refere a isso. Como Charriére punha a França sob vergonha, foi atacado. E antes de tudo, foi realmente um prisioneiro,com estilo e psicologia diferente do autor dos livros dos anos 30. Bairrismo e verdade não combinam.
@carlosribeiro8 Com certeza , mas a maioria esmagadora das pessoas que assistiram ao filme ou mesmo que leram ao livro , chegaram a crer em tudo aquilo . Os meus comentários se referem á farsa montada por Charriére . E isto sim foi uma mentira estabelecida por 40 anos , não poderia ser outra coisa.
@MeisieBoere Filmes e livros sempre sofrem adaptações e o essencial de Papillon foi mostrar a história de um prisioneiro, de vários, seja quem for, e cumpriu seu objetivo. Ninguém foi enganado.Além disso, se BELBENOIT FOI QUEM ADAPTOU E RETIROU OITO PRISIONEIROS, AFETANDO TANTAS PESSOAS, ELE É O FARSANTE ORIGINAL. Ladrão que rouba ladrão... É suspeitíssima a bílis de Arantes contra um autor apenas para defender seu "Papillon" brasileiro... E isso tudo (e mais) não há "prova" que derrube.
@carlosribeiro8 Em se tratando de espetáculo cinematográfico , entretenimento , tudo bem , o objetivo foi alcançado . Mas não é apenas isto. Charriére publicou o livro e as pessoas acreditaram nele . A investigação brasileira sobre este caso foi feita de uma maneira muito séria. Se o sr. discorda , está no seu direito , o you tube é um canal democrático para todos os comentários . Felicidades !
@MeisieBoere A única prova séria serie um exame de DNA, se isso fosse possível, com colaboração internacional. Nenhuma prova se sustenta e só pode comentar que leu os 4 livros e a contestação, séria e verídica, feita por Mauricio Habert, filho de um dos companheiros de Rene Schehr, coisa que Arantes mal fez e não entendeu, pois é tão semi-analfabeto que escreve "sego" com "s"... Ninguém é tão burro para crer que cinema é tudo verídico, já os crentes em Arantes, ignoram até o básico do caso todo.
@carlosribeiro8 Todo escritor, mesmo os maiores se INSPIRA em outros, e muitos viveram histórias semelhantes na Guiana. Qualquer um que afirme coisas que não pode provar sobre Charriére (a única prova seria o manuscrito original de "Papillon") como Arantes, deve observar a mensagem em inglês logo acima: Arantes divulgou disparates, difamações e mentiras, contestáveis até na leitura. Portanto, é mais mentiroso que Charriére. Leia EU CONTESTO! de Mauricio Habert Filho, antes de qualquer coisa .
@carlosribeiro8 Amigo a realidade é mais impressionante que a ficção.As divergências entre os dois livros ajudaram a expor Charrière como um farsante. Ele gastou praticamente todo o dinheiro ganho com o livro e o filme Papillon na produção de outro filme que foi um fracasso total. E morreu pobre, destruído pela bebida, em 1973. Charriére era um sujeito com pouca cultura , não escreveu livro algum , Belbenoit era o verdadeiro Papillon. Não é apenas Platão Arantes quem afirma isto em seus livros.
@MeisieBoere As divergências entre os dois livros se explica ou por adulteração de Belbenoit (que invalida as acusações de Arantes) ou pelas exigências de adaptação de temas envolvendo pessoas vivas. Não é problema meu. É um assunto bom para debater, mas seu problema é afirmar coisas ignorando a bibliografia existente e a própria contestação de um descendente de companheiro de fuga de René Scher. Semelhanças existem, pois a rotina dos prisioneiros era a mesma...
@carlosribeiro8Desculpe a minha ignorância mas creio que exames de DNA não são aplicados neste tipo de caso. Este é um assunto basicamente de plágio , uma pessoa se passando por outra.
@MeisieBoere Filmes e livros biográficos são sempre BASEADOS em..., e qualquer problema é com os editores e produtores. Charriére pode ter se valido de um escritor fantasma, um jornalista da venezuela. E se usou originais de Belbenoit, fez o que ele havia feito, retirando 6 prisioneiros da fuga. O adulterador original, se a tese de Arantes está correta, é Belbenoit. Arantes se contesta a si mesmo e faz afirmações graves que ninguém mais fez, a tese é dele como ele afirma.
@MeisieBoere Acusações de plágio dependem da leitura dos originais. Como ninguém leu, ninguém pode acusar Charriére de plágio. A realidade ultrapassa a ficção, mas os erros grosseiros de leitura e deturpação de dados e informações cometidos por Arantes, podem ser constatados lendo os livros. Charriere cometeu omissões e enganos menores, seja por produtores ou tempo decorrido. Já Arantes ultrapassa os limites toleráveis de inépcia no entendimento e deturpação de textos.
@MeisieBoere Esta discussão poderia ser continuado com outras demonstrações, mas para você entender teria que ler a bibliografia, investigar a matéria devidamente, não cometer contradições e confusões entre adaptações e problemas que não são nossos, e parar de acreditar em uma história sem pé nem cabeça, sem qualquer prova sólida acompanhada de acusações sem base a várias pessoas e baseada em rumores e ignorância pessoal. Deturpar a realidade, fontes e textos é outra coisa, o que Arantes faz.
O verdadeiro Papillon não era Henri Charrière , mas René Belbenoît, que viveu e está sepultado na Vila Surumú, no norte do Estado de Roraima , Brasil, hoje parte da Terra Indígena São Marcos. Os peritos da Polícia Federal Paulo Quintiliano e Marcelo Ruback, depois de seis meses de trabalho em computador, chegaram à conclusão de que o verdadeiro René, o Papillon , é o que morreu e está enterrado no Brasil. Charriére na verdade foi o maior farsante da literatura mundial.
@pyreneeamour .....one of the best books you'll ever read.......dont forget to read 'banco' the follow up-henri still had crazy adventure's and got into trouble-way after he escaped and got his freedom......
@VUPdingCLICK Thanks. I was a boat ride away from Devil's Island this January. But the sea was too choppy off Kourou and I didn't get to visit Devil's Island, as the skipper of the boat decided to abort the trip. Hope reading about it will make up for the disappointment. I'll put Banco on my to-read list.
Thing is, embelished or otherwise dose'nt really matter, we know from history mans cruelty to man,the injustice of those in power, all Henri has done is to remind us of it, through his experience,little is completely true unless you experience it for yourself therefore we must rely on the experiences' of others think of Aristole for instance are his writings to be disregarded....were the not embelished down true the years.
I for 1 believe he was there why is it nobody came forward till hes death to say they were just stories the guy was locked up and nearly starved to death that could allow for some details like time or dates he was practically the tech advisor for the re-construction of the camp for the film,maybe he was tired of the attention and just decided to say i lied just to be left alone we,ll never know.
In fact, Henri Charrière was inspired by two prisoners (Brunier and Belbenoit) to write his novel. It might be an autobiography but it's still very far from what happened to him when he was in Guyanne. He grabbed stories here and there and wrote a story out of them to spice his novel. Nevertheless, great book and great film !
Until u can provide us with real scientific evidence that his story is a mix of other storys and his own, know that your words are nothing but Slander and Lies. U have done extensive research on the matter? Why are u so bold in your statements? based on what? Tell me.
Plz read below and look at what has been said about it,.
@TheWilliamBurroughs I would like to know how you know this to be true? It would be wrong to deny the truth of a dead man without adequate evidence. What you say may be true... but please point us to the evidence that proves that it is.
Hork, at the end of the day you know didley squat of what was true and what not - are you claiming to know the definitive truth on the matter based on some other guys article. you know nothing really about the truth of it oither than there was a book presented as true and there was an article which doubted it - big deal - what's your beef - you're certainly not custodian of the truth on it!
The unknown author wrote that Charrieres second book,Banco, was "Amusing" to him, so that is what he learned about Papillon in his life. (besides being a flaming a-hole)
To others this book prevented them from committing suicide. Im sure they have a different view regarding Charriere. But im drifting away here.
Debunking what? Strongest source (of this unknown author on Wikipedia :-) ) is Gérard de Villiers article "Papillon Epinglé" . He states that SOME of his storys are fiction. Gerard de Villiers was a right winged nationalist who wanted to defend the honor of France, a true enemy of Charriere. Ofcource there are inconsistencies,but this is all besides the point. What do u think Charriere was trying to tell us in his books? What was his main message, readable trough the lines?.......also lies?
I went on a search for charriere in 2001. i visited his birthplace in france. I found his grave in a small village close to Aubenas, Ardeche. Im sure his true fans diddnt know about this at that time, i was prolly the first to discover it. He rests there next to his mother in one grave.
the film doesn't follow the book too well but i love them both. In the book dega is not on devils island at the end but he is in the film. I guess there was so much information that the film had to adapt the story for effect - we would like to think that dega and papi had a special relationship but in fact he had stronger relationships with others according to the book.
I so want to believe this man went through all these experiences - he is a hero and an inspiration to me.
Wikipedia. Here it is: "In an interview before he died, the publisher, Robert Laffont, admitted that the book was originally submitted to him as a novel. Laffont, who specialised in real-life adventures, persuaded Charrière to release it as if it were an autobiography. " I'm aware of Wikipedia's spotty reputation, but this has the ring of truth.
It is generally agreed Charriere patched together the book from stories told to him by others. In fact, the editor has admitted the book was brought to him as a novel, but on his advice, was changed to a memoir. A ripping good read, but, alas, not a factual account.
machiavelli. Papillon is not a factual account of anything. It is a work of fiction. The publisher admitted on his deathbed it was brought to him as a novel but he suggested rewritting it as an autobiography. Charriere's story has been debunked. By the time he arrived, reforms had eliminated the worst of the living conditions he describes. He was a mild-mannered nebbish from what I gather, not a swashbuckling underworld character. He cobbled together tales that were told to him into Papillon.
Typical American ERM again that wants to boost his ego at the cost of a dead person. You just want to make an ego statement and thus create irritation and anger. I saw ur account...not much positive reactions i must say mate. u have quite some reputation.
Well i did...two times already. I asked u where do u gather your information from? What books/ scientific studies are you referring to. Prolly none cuz its nearly impossible to prove any of your statements. And IF u could find good sources, then it still wouldent proove much, cuz history isnt even a sience. Information is getting distorted the moment Charriere died. And thats the point here.
So what i ask from u is try to be not so bold in your statements, and have a little respect.
yes after some searching im afraid theres a real possibility Hork11 may be right, as much as i want it to be true. looks like a collection of stories mixed with his own that he had gathered from other inmates. still a great story
Just to illustrate how good the book is, even after I digested the stories doubting its veracity, I read it twice again, which makes it four times total. As I've always said, a cracking good read.
Machiavelli I keep posting the link to my sources but they keep deleting it. If you will look up Papillon (the book) on Wikipedia and navigate to the links at the bottom of the page you will find the article debunking Charriere and its bibliography of source material.
@machiavelli888 just saying its a possibility, i want it to be true as much as you. you look for proof, well i say equally to you, show me the proof that its all Charrieres experiences in that book.
Sim...também procuro por aquele vídeo, inclusive henri charriere está na cena da guilhotina com uniforme de prisioneiro e chápeu...descobriram que Charriere é na verdade um impostor...
they were kept in dug out pits at 'Kilo 40', not laying on the wet jungle floe...spider,scorps,all biting insects killed 5-10 men per eve...read the book...horrific..
Believing is a beautiful thing, although not always easy. In his life, Henri, had to believe in himself and escaping like no other. He was a very special man and therefor always got a great deal of sympathy from a lot of people. Although it seemed impossible, he believed in escaping, although everybody told him it was impossible. There'll always be people who choose to not believe or will be critisizing everything on a very superficial level; you'll have to make a choice for yourself. I believe!
I've read the book too many times to count. I have a small butterfly tattoo now because I think that this guy is awesome-whether all of the details of his story are true or not.
I read the book 3 times and the story is fascinating. But in its details, can't be true. I think it is 20% true and Charriere and his editor made up the rest. Too many years of misery to remember and he tells it like it was a 2 weeks trip. So many places and names, too much left to chance. Did the indians really eat the pearls? Oh, the prision and hazzards were real. So must have been Henry Charriere, the convict. La mariposa. The butterfly.
I am 49 years of age, at aged 7 my parents decided to split, I cannot spell seperete, but to make ends meet my mother took in lodgers and one of them left this book by HENRY CHARRIERE Titled Papillion, my dads name was Henry and I guess I missed him. So when I saw the name of the author I was drawn and at aged 7 I read and have not stopped since......
i love the book ,the movie and the main theme and all the soundtrack its totally awesome,films like this sadly will no longer be made.i will always remewmber the part wer mcqueen eats the bugs in the cell, as a kid it disturbed me lol ,long live pappy and steve mcqueen
hi colsh1690, yes go asap and buy the book off amazon it is quite simply amazing ,trust me on this it is one of my all time favorites,also pappys 2nd book is called banco which is about his life after he escapes in venezuala,it is also excellent,also if you want to see the real henri charriere acting he starred in a movie called popsy pop queen of diamonds and hes a dam good actor,i love the whole pap thing and steve mcqueen was v apt for the role,sorri for ranting lol now go buy those two book
@darren1673 thanx for replying, i never knew he got into the acting, interesting, i just read a similur book "midnight express" i didnt want it to end excellent reading. i will order that book tmorrow cheers mate
@colsh1690 nunca podrias comparar la experiencia de Charriere con la de expreso de media noche. el primero es un hombre en fuga permanente y el otro por un hecho fortuito. tal vez solo el sufrimiento del encierro.
He was genuine french yakuza. He carried out yakuza's way anywhere including lies in novel. He is not a miserable man drawn by the movie. His mind was always young, and always optimistic. I read his book many times like the Bible. I knew the thing that there is a lie in his book. However, there are a lot of lessons in the novel.
oh dear. since slavomir rawicz's the long walk got torn apart 2006, i've often wondered on the authenticity of ALL "true" stories. has anyone read the long walk?
"Modern critics tend to agree that Charrière's depictions included events that happened to others, and that Brunier was at the prison at the same time."
Dude, you've copied and pasted this comment on every vid to do with 'Papillon' i litterally finished the book 5 minutes ago and i come to read your constant posts on every page. I find it childish to throw his story away saying it isnt true, it may not be. But there's no reason to tell everyone that it isnt true, read it for what it is, an awesome read!
I highally recoomend the book and for me it is a true story of man Escaping himself as much as the jails that held him down for 13 years..
I found the book in my local recycling depot on the old bookshelf, my mum had seen the film and said it was brilliant but she never read the book, i took the book and boy was i glad ,I am still on pg200 or so but it is an exceptional book henri charrière is great at telling a story and what a story!
apart from his time spent in prison he had an otherwise top life,full of adventure and women...escapes from prison and gets shacked up with 2 venezuelan sisters!! not bad at all.
yea im reading banco right now.good book.papillon is my all time favourite.charrieres narration makes it seem completely true.however once u read up on the book's background and abt Charles Brunier u will be disappointed.charriere is widely belived to have stolen brunier's story.just google "charles brunier"
Papillon fue una novela que me hizo grato aquel verano del 84 cuando lo leí por primera vez. Muchas gracias Henri Charrière, tu novela es comparable con las de Julio Verne y Emilio Salgari
"A pretensão de provar que René Schehr é Papillon caem por terra com uma simples leitura das fontes consultadas e com o testemunho de antigos moradores de Boa Vista, conhecedores dos fatos". Mauricio Habert Filho, descendente de Maurice Habert, um dos companheiros de Rene Scher, no livro EU CONTESTO! Por favor, não me faça postar o livro inteiro aqui e procure investigar a matéria e ler também DRY GUILLOTINE E HELL ON TRIAL para se inteirar devidamente. A história de Arantes só tem furos. OK?
carlosribeiro8 1 month ago
Thank you,very nice!
Thurstonsfunfair 3 months ago
Conocí a Henri a finales de 1969 o quizás a principio de 1970, en el bar "Cosmos" de Barcelona. Yo era un jovencito con inquietudes teatrales "pertenecía a la compañía Taller de teatro de Barcelona", Henri me esperaba en dicho bar siempre que yo acudía a ensayar. A mi me cautivaba sus historias, para mi muy fantasiosas ya que por entonces no era consciente del personaje que había conocido. Al morir Henri en 1973, me dí cuenta de lo importante que fue. Me arrepiento haber dudado de él. F.G
1xdidi 6 months ago 2
I believe a man like Henri Charriere, should be admired for the spirit with which he faced the difficulties, the desire to live and demonstrate what he deserved a life worth living as a free man ..... LONG LIVE PAPILLON
robertoleroi 6 months ago 7
Credo che un uomo come Henri Charriere, vada ammirato x lo spirito con cui ha affrontato le difficoltà, x la voglia di vivere e dimostrare quanto anche lui meritasse una vita degna di essere vissuta da uomo libero.....LONG LIVE PAPILLON
robertoleroi 6 months ago
I've never seen anything expains freedom like this . Thank you Mr. Henri Charrière
ismeto 6 months ago
henry charriere un personaje, su vida fue toda una aventura
que ha muchos nos huviera gustado vivirlas
bpvillena 7 months ago
CentinelThe: "Dry Guillotin" from Rene Belbenoit is another book about another man, he was also a prisoner in French Guyana, but Papillon experience was real.
TheJoshwallace 7 months ago
René Belbenoit was apparently the real man behind the Papillon story , I'm not sure but some research made doubtful about Henry Charriere, I wish I knew the real truth.
CentinelThe 8 months ago
Essas mentiras perduraram por 40 anos e somente em 2009, é que se sabe que o verdadeiro escritor foi René Belbenoit, conhecido na Colônia Penal da Guiana Francesa como Papillon, por ter uma borboleta azul tatuada em seu peito (borboleta, em Francês, é Papillon). Ele construiu, em 1935, uma jangada com dezenas de sacos cheios de cocos amarrados a pedaços de paus, liderando a fuga de oito homens daquele inferno colonial. Charriére foi um destes 8 homens que conseguiram fugir. Esta é a verdade.
MeisieBoere 1 year ago
@MeisieBoere segundo: Efectivamente, si fuera como vos desís despues de publicado el segundo libro "BANCO" se notaria la diferencia y es el mismo estilo, esto indepndientemente que la gente de Venezuela sabe y conoció a Papillon afirma que era capaz de eso y más de lo que dice su libro, existen fotos en Honduras de su primer fuga, en ese penal, y es el mismo Henri charriére, así como tambien pocos saben que para hacer la pelicula, Dostin Hofman se entrevistó con el autentico Luis Dega.
valz63 11 months ago
@valz63 tambien hay unas fotos de henri charriere( papillon) que lo muestran junto a un grupo de profugos en la ciudad de barranquilla(colombia) la foto es como de los años 40.En aquella epoca fue novedad, el grupo de franceses que se escaparon de las guyanas ,que llegaron hacia la guajira y santamarta.Eso fue justo despues de haber estado preso en santa marta cuando fue trasladado a una carcel de barranquilla
krav111 9 months ago
Até o início da década de 60, Henri Charrière não tinha a tatuagem da borboleta em seu peito e era conhecido pelos venezuelanos como “Francês”. Os direitos autorais recebidos por Charrière foram expressivos (fala-se em mais de um milhão de dólares), no meu entender seu único erro foi não ter repassado parte desse dinheiro para René o verdadeiro autor.Publicado em 1969, o livro “Papillon”, assinado por Henri Charrière, chegou às livrarias denunciando todas as atrocidades cometidas .
MeisieBoere 1 year ago
@MeisieBoere: No lo creo el perfil de personalidad y psicologico de Papillón, demuestran que era un hombre de valor y si fuera el personaje que vos aseguras hubiera reclamado, eso es por una parte por otra el gobierno frances al ver el ridiculo, al que fue expuesto por Charrière aclararia las cosas, recordemos que Papillón, fue a dar conferencias a Francia y en otras partes del mundo cuando todos los actores de su biografia estaban vivos, y resulta que hoy que en su mayoria ya están muertos.
valz63 11 months ago
@valz63 Realmente valz63 , hoje todos os protagonistas da história já estão mortos. Pode-se dar o assunto por encerrado. Mas o laudo da Polícia Federal Brasileira é algo muito sério. Existe mesmo um senador Brasileiro que se pronunciou sobre este caso , no congresso nacional. Para aqueles que não querem aceitar a verdade , que fiquem com a mentira estabelecida. Assistí várias vezes ao filme Papillon , mas hoje sabendo da verdade não quero assistir novamente. Muito obrigado e abraços do Brasil.
MeisieBoere 11 months ago
@MeisieBoere Não existe nenhuma "mentira estabelecida por 40 anos", pois o livro foi polêmico desde a publicação e a edição portuguesa alertava para o fato damudança de nomes e lugares, poistodo livro ou filme sofre adaptações. A contracapa brasileira de "Banco" também se refere a isso. Como Charriére punha a França sob vergonha, foi atacado. E antes de tudo, foi realmente um prisioneiro,com estilo e psicologia diferente do autor dos livros dos anos 30. Bairrismo e verdade não combinam.
carlosribeiro8 1 month ago
@carlosribeiro8 Com certeza , mas a maioria esmagadora das pessoas que assistiram ao filme ou mesmo que leram ao livro , chegaram a crer em tudo aquilo . Os meus comentários se referem á farsa montada por Charriére . E isto sim foi uma mentira estabelecida por 40 anos , não poderia ser outra coisa.
MeisieBoere 1 month ago
@MeisieBoere Filmes e livros sempre sofrem adaptações e o essencial de Papillon foi mostrar a história de um prisioneiro, de vários, seja quem for, e cumpriu seu objetivo. Ninguém foi enganado.Além disso, se BELBENOIT FOI QUEM ADAPTOU E RETIROU OITO PRISIONEIROS, AFETANDO TANTAS PESSOAS, ELE É O FARSANTE ORIGINAL. Ladrão que rouba ladrão... É suspeitíssima a bílis de Arantes contra um autor apenas para defender seu "Papillon" brasileiro... E isso tudo (e mais) não há "prova" que derrube.
carlosribeiro8 1 month ago
@carlosribeiro8 Em se tratando de espetáculo cinematográfico , entretenimento , tudo bem , o objetivo foi alcançado . Mas não é apenas isto. Charriére publicou o livro e as pessoas acreditaram nele . A investigação brasileira sobre este caso foi feita de uma maneira muito séria. Se o sr. discorda , está no seu direito , o you tube é um canal democrático para todos os comentários . Felicidades !
MeisieBoere 1 month ago
@MeisieBoere A única prova séria serie um exame de DNA, se isso fosse possível, com colaboração internacional. Nenhuma prova se sustenta e só pode comentar que leu os 4 livros e a contestação, séria e verídica, feita por Mauricio Habert, filho de um dos companheiros de Rene Schehr, coisa que Arantes mal fez e não entendeu, pois é tão semi-analfabeto que escreve "sego" com "s"... Ninguém é tão burro para crer que cinema é tudo verídico, já os crentes em Arantes, ignoram até o básico do caso todo.
carlosribeiro8 1 month ago
@carlosribeiro8 Todo escritor, mesmo os maiores se INSPIRA em outros, e muitos viveram histórias semelhantes na Guiana. Qualquer um que afirme coisas que não pode provar sobre Charriére (a única prova seria o manuscrito original de "Papillon") como Arantes, deve observar a mensagem em inglês logo acima: Arantes divulgou disparates, difamações e mentiras, contestáveis até na leitura. Portanto, é mais mentiroso que Charriére. Leia EU CONTESTO! de Mauricio Habert Filho, antes de qualquer coisa .
carlosribeiro8 1 month ago
@carlosribeiro8 Amigo a realidade é mais impressionante que a ficção.As divergências entre os dois livros ajudaram a expor Charrière como um farsante. Ele gastou praticamente todo o dinheiro ganho com o livro e o filme Papillon na produção de outro filme que foi um fracasso total. E morreu pobre, destruído pela bebida, em 1973. Charriére era um sujeito com pouca cultura , não escreveu livro algum , Belbenoit era o verdadeiro Papillon. Não é apenas Platão Arantes quem afirma isto em seus livros.
MeisieBoere 1 month ago
@MeisieBoere As divergências entre os dois livros se explica ou por adulteração de Belbenoit (que invalida as acusações de Arantes) ou pelas exigências de adaptação de temas envolvendo pessoas vivas. Não é problema meu. É um assunto bom para debater, mas seu problema é afirmar coisas ignorando a bibliografia existente e a própria contestação de um descendente de companheiro de fuga de René Scher. Semelhanças existem, pois a rotina dos prisioneiros era a mesma...
carlosribeiro8 1 month ago
@carlosribeiro8Desculpe a minha ignorância mas creio que exames de DNA não são aplicados neste tipo de caso. Este é um assunto basicamente de plágio , uma pessoa se passando por outra.
MeisieBoere 1 month ago
@MeisieBoere Filmes e livros biográficos são sempre BASEADOS em..., e qualquer problema é com os editores e produtores. Charriére pode ter se valido de um escritor fantasma, um jornalista da venezuela. E se usou originais de Belbenoit, fez o que ele havia feito, retirando 6 prisioneiros da fuga. O adulterador original, se a tese de Arantes está correta, é Belbenoit. Arantes se contesta a si mesmo e faz afirmações graves que ninguém mais fez, a tese é dele como ele afirma.
carlosribeiro8 1 month ago
@MeisieBoere Acusações de plágio dependem da leitura dos originais. Como ninguém leu, ninguém pode acusar Charriére de plágio. A realidade ultrapassa a ficção, mas os erros grosseiros de leitura e deturpação de dados e informações cometidos por Arantes, podem ser constatados lendo os livros. Charriere cometeu omissões e enganos menores, seja por produtores ou tempo decorrido. Já Arantes ultrapassa os limites toleráveis de inépcia no entendimento e deturpação de textos.
carlosribeiro8 1 month ago
@MeisieBoere Esta discussão poderia ser continuado com outras demonstrações, mas para você entender teria que ler a bibliografia, investigar a matéria devidamente, não cometer contradições e confusões entre adaptações e problemas que não são nossos, e parar de acreditar em uma história sem pé nem cabeça, sem qualquer prova sólida acompanhada de acusações sem base a várias pessoas e baseada em rumores e ignorância pessoal. Deturpar a realidade, fontes e textos é outra coisa, o que Arantes faz.
carlosribeiro8 1 month ago
O verdadeiro Papillon não era Henri Charrière , mas René Belbenoît, que viveu e está sepultado na Vila Surumú, no norte do Estado de Roraima , Brasil, hoje parte da Terra Indígena São Marcos. Os peritos da Polícia Federal Paulo Quintiliano e Marcelo Ruback, depois de seis meses de trabalho em computador, chegaram à conclusão de que o verdadeiro René, o Papillon , é o que morreu e está enterrado no Brasil. Charriére na verdade foi o maior farsante da literatura mundial.
MeisieBoere 1 year ago
Passez par ou il est passé et vous pourrez écrire ..................
doko59 1 year ago
Will always be in my heart and always has been in my Top ten motion picture list since I saw it at the cinema in Toronto,Canada in 1973.
Tears,miss you Steve,,,always,
Hard hugs,
Gemma
repelghosts 1 year ago
this has nothing to do with Papillon. You should be ashamed. Gaylords :O
Cloress1 1 year ago
I just bought Papillon. Going to read it soon. Peace
pyreneeamour 1 year ago
@pyreneeamour .....one of the best books you'll ever read.......dont forget to read 'banco' the follow up-henri still had crazy adventure's and got into trouble-way after he escaped and got his freedom......
VUPdingCLICK 1 year ago
@VUPdingCLICK Thanks. I was a boat ride away from Devil's Island this January. But the sea was too choppy off Kourou and I didn't get to visit Devil's Island, as the skipper of the boat decided to abort the trip. Hope reading about it will make up for the disappointment. I'll put Banco on my to-read list.
pyreneeamour 1 year ago
Thing is, embelished or otherwise dose'nt really matter, we know from history mans cruelty to man,the injustice of those in power, all Henri has done is to remind us of it, through his experience,little is completely true unless you experience it for yourself therefore we must rely on the experiences' of others think of Aristole for instance are his writings to be disregarded....were the not embelished down true the years.
HAPPYTHELEAF 1 year ago 2
I for 1 believe he was there why is it nobody came forward till hes death to say they were just stories the guy was locked up and nearly starved to death that could allow for some details like time or dates he was practically the tech advisor for the re-construction of the camp for the film,maybe he was tired of the attention and just decided to say i lied just to be left alone we,ll never know.
LakeErieGhost 1 year ago
When you tell a story to your friend, you embelish it. Does that mean it didn't happen?
stuntmanloco 1 year ago
I have read his book many time. I like it. I want to watch the movie but really didnt get to see a free link :-) .. anybody thr to help me ?
blackp0101 1 year ago
In fact, Henri Charrière was inspired by two prisoners (Brunier and Belbenoit) to write his novel. It might be an autobiography but it's still very far from what happened to him when he was in Guyanne. He grabbed stories here and there and wrote a story out of them to spice his novel. Nevertheless, great book and great film !
TheWilliamBurroughs 1 year ago
Until u can provide us with real scientific evidence that his story is a mix of other storys and his own, know that your words are nothing but Slander and Lies. U have done extensive research on the matter? Why are u so bold in your statements? based on what? Tell me.
Plz read below and look at what has been said about it,.
machiavelli888 1 year ago 5
@TheWilliamBurroughs I would like to know how you know this to be true? It would be wrong to deny the truth of a dead man without adequate evidence. What you say may be true... but please point us to the evidence that proves that it is.
Snoosemoose 7 months ago
Hork, at the end of the day you know didley squat of what was true and what not - are you claiming to know the definitive truth on the matter based on some other guys article. you know nothing really about the truth of it oither than there was a book presented as true and there was an article which doubted it - big deal - what's your beef - you're certainly not custodian of the truth on it!
bruckner66 1 year ago
The unknown author wrote that Charrieres second book,Banco, was "Amusing" to him, so that is what he learned about Papillon in his life. (besides being a flaming a-hole)
To others this book prevented them from committing suicide. Im sure they have a different view regarding Charriere. But im drifting away here.
machiavelli888 2 years ago
Debunking what? Strongest source (of this unknown author on Wikipedia :-) ) is Gérard de Villiers article "Papillon Epinglé" . He states that SOME of his storys are fiction. Gerard de Villiers was a right winged nationalist who wanted to defend the honor of France, a true enemy of Charriere. Ofcource there are inconsistencies,but this is all besides the point. What do u think Charriere was trying to tell us in his books? What was his main message, readable trough the lines?.......also lies?
machiavelli888 2 years ago
I went on a search for charriere in 2001. i visited his birthplace in france. I found his grave in a small village close to Aubenas, Ardeche. Im sure his true fans diddnt know about this at that time, i was prolly the first to discover it. He rests there next to his mother in one grave.
machiavelli888 2 years ago
prolly?
gixer121121 2 years ago
the film doesn't follow the book too well but i love them both. In the book dega is not on devils island at the end but he is in the film. I guess there was so much information that the film had to adapt the story for effect - we would like to think that dega and papi had a special relationship but in fact he had stronger relationships with others according to the book.
I so want to believe this man went through all these experiences - he is a hero and an inspiration to me.
paulfreefall 2 years ago 2
The thing that would get me is living in a dark cell cheek-by-jowl with centipedes. Yikes!!
hork111 2 years ago
Wikipedia. Here it is: "In an interview before he died, the publisher, Robert Laffont, admitted that the book was originally submitted to him as a novel. Laffont, who specialised in real-life adventures, persuaded Charrière to release it as if it were an autobiography. " I'm aware of Wikipedia's spotty reputation, but this has the ring of truth.
hork111 2 years ago
It is generally agreed Charriere patched together the book from stories told to him by others. In fact, the editor has admitted the book was brought to him as a novel, but on his advice, was changed to a memoir. A ripping good read, but, alas, not a factual account.
hork111 2 years ago
Are you sure ,, where did you read that
americanstud1 2 years ago
@hork111 Not a factual account? based on what facts ?
machiavelli888 2 years ago
machiavelli. Papillon is not a factual account of anything. It is a work of fiction. The publisher admitted on his deathbed it was brought to him as a novel but he suggested rewritting it as an autobiography. Charriere's story has been debunked. By the time he arrived, reforms had eliminated the worst of the living conditions he describes. He was a mild-mannered nebbish from what I gather, not a swashbuckling underworld character. He cobbled together tales that were told to him into Papillon.
hork111 2 years ago
U gather what from where..what are your sources?
Wikipedia? now dont make me laugh.
Typical American ERM again that wants to boost his ego at the cost of a dead person. You just want to make an ego statement and thus create irritation and anger. I saw ur account...not much positive reactions i must say mate. u have quite some reputation.
machiavelli888 2 years ago
Okay. Have it your own way. You still haven't refuted any comment I posted on Papillon.
hork111 2 years ago
Well i did...two times already. I asked u where do u gather your information from? What books/ scientific studies are you referring to. Prolly none cuz its nearly impossible to prove any of your statements. And IF u could find good sources, then it still wouldent proove much, cuz history isnt even a sience. Information is getting distorted the moment Charriere died. And thats the point here.
So what i ask from u is try to be not so bold in your statements, and have a little respect.
machiavelli888 2 years ago
aaagh say it aint so :-0 im in the middle of reading it at the moment.
gixer121121 2 years ago
yes after some searching im afraid theres a real possibility Hork11 may be right, as much as i want it to be true. looks like a collection of stories mixed with his own that he had gathered from other inmates. still a great story
gixer121121 2 years ago
Just to illustrate how good the book is, even after I digested the stories doubting its veracity, I read it twice again, which makes it four times total. As I've always said, a cracking good read.
hork111 2 years ago
yes gixer121121 your searching is very scientific :-)
machiavelli888 2 years ago
Machiavelli I keep posting the link to my sources but they keep deleting it. If you will look up Papillon (the book) on Wikipedia and navigate to the links at the bottom of the page you will find the article debunking Charriere and its bibliography of source material.
hork111 2 years ago
Comment removed
gixer121121 2 years ago
@machiavelli888 just saying its a possibility, i want it to be true as much as you. you look for proof, well i say equally to you, show me the proof that its all Charrieres experiences in that book.
gixer121121 2 years ago
bom era o video que tinha uma grande parte da gravaçao do filme com o proprio papillom,por que tiraram do youtube?
jjdanda 2 years ago
Sim...também procuro por aquele vídeo, inclusive henri charriere está na cena da guilhotina com uniforme de prisioneiro e chápeu...descobriram que Charriere é na verdade um impostor...
alexandre608 2 years ago
they were kept in dug out pits at 'Kilo 40', not laying on the wet jungle floe...spider,scorps,all biting insects killed 5-10 men per eve...read the book...horrific..
repelghosts 2 years ago
i love popiii
dibonQ 2 years ago
Believing is a beautiful thing, although not always easy. In his life, Henri, had to believe in himself and escaping like no other. He was a very special man and therefor always got a great deal of sympathy from a lot of people. Although it seemed impossible, he believed in escaping, although everybody told him it was impossible. There'll always be people who choose to not believe or will be critisizing everything on a very superficial level; you'll have to make a choice for yourself. I believe!
xxWhatAboutThat 2 years ago
I've read the book too many times to count. I have a small butterfly tattoo now because I think that this guy is awesome-whether all of the details of his story are true or not.
dormdancing 2 years ago
I read the book 3 times and the story is fascinating. But in its details, can't be true. I think it is 20% true and Charriere and his editor made up the rest. Too many years of misery to remember and he tells it like it was a 2 weeks trip. So many places and names, too much left to chance. Did the indians really eat the pearls? Oh, the prision and hazzards were real. So must have been Henry Charriere, the convict. La mariposa. The butterfly.
Frangeliko38 2 years ago 2
Yes the thing about eating the perls disterbed me when I was reading the book. I foud it realy unrealistic.
ArtistNR 2 years ago
the outline may be true, but it's really impossible to remember such a great deal of details. it's imagined in 60%, just like any other 'true story'.
stah1973 2 years ago
Please, can someone tell me if Charriere was genuine or a story- thief?
Slavomir Rawicz was either a liar, or his landlord took the reins.
So what's the truth on the two of them?
Kelly14UK 2 years ago
all the story is true!!!!!AND HENRI CHARRIERE is dead already
emsinemsi1 2 years ago 2
I am 49 years of age, at aged 7 my parents decided to split, I cannot spell seperete, but to make ends meet my mother took in lodgers and one of them left this book by HENRY CHARRIERE Titled Papillion, my dads name was Henry and I guess I missed him. So when I saw the name of the author I was drawn and at aged 7 I read and have not stopped since......
HAPPYTHELEAF 2 years ago 2
ive read the book like 7 times ...now im reading it again... best book ever...hope hes still living in venezuela
yalexfumi46 2 years ago
sorry to break the news but he dies of cancer in '73.
spankissimo 2 years ago
i love the book ,the movie and the main theme and all the soundtrack its totally awesome,films like this sadly will no longer be made.i will always remewmber the part wer mcqueen eats the bugs in the cell, as a kid it disturbed me lol ,long live pappy and steve mcqueen
darren1673 3 years ago 3
@darren1673 cool comment i watched this movie last night first time since i was a kid and was thinking of getting the book is it as good as the film?
colsh1690 1 year ago
hi colsh1690, yes go asap and buy the book off amazon it is quite simply amazing ,trust me on this it is one of my all time favorites,also pappys 2nd book is called banco which is about his life after he escapes in venezuala,it is also excellent,also if you want to see the real henri charriere acting he starred in a movie called popsy pop queen of diamonds and hes a dam good actor,i love the whole pap thing and steve mcqueen was v apt for the role,sorri for ranting lol now go buy those two book
darren1673 1 year ago
@darren1673 thanx for replying, i never knew he got into the acting, interesting, i just read a similur book "midnight express" i didnt want it to end excellent reading. i will order that book tmorrow cheers mate
colsh1690 1 year ago
no worries colsh,and def check out that movie even though charriere is about 65 or so he still looks tough as nails in real life
darren1673 1 year ago
@colsh1690 nunca podrias comparar la experiencia de Charriere con la de expreso de media noche. el primero es un hombre en fuga permanente y el otro por un hecho fortuito. tal vez solo el sufrimiento del encierro.
valz63 11 months ago
papillon es un ejemplo de superacion de la raza humana...jefe de jefes!!!larga vida a papillon!!!
papillon9791 3 years ago
He was genuine french yakuza. He carried out yakuza's way anywhere including lies in novel. He is not a miserable man drawn by the movie. His mind was always young, and always optimistic. I read his book many times like the Bible. I knew the thing that there is a lie in his book. However, there are a lot of lessons in the novel.
lotusesprits3 3 years ago
I believe Charriere. They want to discredit him in death because they can't face what they did. The fight goes on for Papillon.
hertblue 3 years ago
oh dear. since slavomir rawicz's the long walk got torn apart 2006, i've often wondered on the authenticity of ALL "true" stories. has anyone read the long walk?
catblanket14uk 3 years ago
This guy was really strong
Pearljamrulzzz 3 years ago
"Modern critics tend to agree that Charrière's depictions included events that happened to others, and that Brunier was at the prison at the same time."
I belive Papillon's words...
z07m14 3 years ago
Papillon is a great book and awesome story but it is not true. Papillon is based on the book "Hell on Trial" by Rene Belbenoit.
In fact,the books are almost identical. Papillon was written in the early 70s. Belbenoit wrote his book in 1938.
So much of Papillon's escapades were plagiarized from Belbenoit including the part where he saves the Governors daughter from drowning.
Belbenoit's book is not as good a read as Papillon as it is more of an expose of Devils island.
BehrHunterNH 3 years ago
The picture at 20 seconds is Rene Belbenoit. Not Papillon.
BehrHunterNH 3 years ago
yes; Im add a error images
damesi26 3 years ago
no dude, you are wrong. this is a ery true incident! ask me how and why if you are interested. i will explain everything to you.
Tammi0 3 years ago
Dude, you've copied and pasted this comment on every vid to do with 'Papillon' i litterally finished the book 5 minutes ago and i come to read your constant posts on every page. I find it childish to throw his story away saying it isnt true, it may not be. But there's no reason to tell everyone that it isnt true, read it for what it is, an awesome read!
I highally recoomend the book and for me it is a true story of man Escaping himself as much as the jails that held him down for 13 years..
richskee 3 years ago
what is the ssong movie theme please?
darkwandaim 3 years ago
and hes french!
Nicorette1234 3 years ago
I think it was a set up.
Zsofyboszy 3 years ago
Bravo
ivanbakurov 3 years ago
papillon is the man, all sprit,from a scotsman who is all love.
antonyvt 3 years ago
uno de mis favoritos desde niño...¡¡
manuelteranesquivel 3 years ago
It was an error of justice, or a set up ? Nobody will ever know, anyway they ruined his life.
anter15 3 years ago
I found the book in my local recycling depot on the old bookshelf, my mum had seen the film and said it was brilliant but she never read the book, i took the book and boy was i glad ,I am still on pg200 or so but it is an exceptional book henri charrière is great at telling a story and what a story!
thefisherking92 3 years ago
apart from his time spent in prison he had an otherwise top life,full of adventure and women...escapes from prison and gets shacked up with 2 venezuelan sisters!! not bad at all.
Arcturo766 3 years ago
Has anyone read his other book?
It is called Banco, and is all about Papillon after the first book ends.
It is also an awsome book with great adventures.
sandiapony 3 years ago
yea im reading banco right now.good book.papillon is my all time favourite.charrieres narration makes it seem completely true.however once u read up on the book's background and abt Charles Brunier u will be disappointed.charriere is widely belived to have stolen brunier's story.just google "charles brunier"
:)
pranaysinha555 3 years ago
bad luck for me, this books isn't available in the philippines...i only read the readers digest edition
Lionel0008 3 years ago
Papillon--what a great book! A true adventure! There was a time when I had mixed feelings about the movie, but now I really appreciate it!
Thinking123Big 3 years ago
Papillon fue una novela que me hizo grato aquel verano del 84 cuando lo leí por primera vez. Muchas gracias Henri Charrière, tu novela es comparable con las de Julio Verne y Emilio Salgari
luisrios21 3 years ago
a true inspiration
WorKidFlid 3 years ago
The best book ever made
awongquala 3 years ago 15
Fucking good book!!!
slitnajeans 3 years ago