China News : Wukan Villagers Protests Implications - Against Murder & Land grab by Government

[cambrunnerii]

Tibetan people want freedom; China will never be a great and lasting world power until the Tibetan people and Tibetan Buddhism are free from China’s precaution. Long life to The Dalai Lama and HH The Karmapa.

[zokipartizan]

@Sekatathefag

So? That still means China isn't communist. It's corrupted as hell, as many countries who are being called communist.

[zokipartizan]

@Sekatathefag

*sigh* It's the same shit in a different package. Btw, China is more capitalist than communist, did you know they have 1 million millionaires?

All the current human systems are not working. It's time for something new.

Zeitgeist Movement perhaps?

[serebii76]

I'd like to support their action, but the Commies have blocked all possible ways to the village.

[zokipartizan]

@serebii76

Commies, democrats, liberals. It's all the same. Fucking politicians only out for power and money..

[elchippe]

These people are not protesting for democracy they are protesting for common capitalism problems (pollution, land grab, inequality, ect), the hot topic in china now is the returning of Maoism, Maoism is the biggest Threat in china now, people are tired of factories, foriegns companies ruling china and new rich people in china.

[911766]

this is what the western people want chaos in the east, look at what they are doing, Egypt, Libya now China.

[forgottenmemories63]

@911766 Always blaming others is convenient :)

The people are sick of the Tyrant Communists and you blame the Western people for it ?

[MsOneiroi77]

China looks corrupt

[yangyangpeter]

@YvonZh You are not seriously thinking democracy is working well here in the States, are you? Just because we have democracy here does not mean it works great. Besides, comparing to American, it's pretty obvious that Chinese citizens lack social responsibility which is essential to true democracy. So, stop blaming CCP. It's not all their fault. Chinese people should be responsible for this.

[YvonZh]

@yangyangpeter So What's your point? Tyranny is better than Democracy ? Shame on You! Yes ,it's Chinese people's responsibility, and it's time to take it!

[YvonZh]

@yangyangpeter And Are you an American? "yangyang" if which is not will be super hilarious!

[MerrIoI]

♦♦♦ ATTENTION ♦♦♦

@Sekatathefag

= Taiwanese SHIT-EATER <--- 47 years old, male, jobless psycho

The Jap soldiers should have killed your ANAL whore Taiwanese mama after raping her, so you don’t have to exist and suffer a massive psychiatric disorder (i.e. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and Multiple Personality Disorder) at the middle age in the Taiwanese ghetto of Montreal, Canada today. Seriously how could they be so inconsiderate?

:-)

:-0

:-D

FUCK TAIWAN !

[froggerstop2]

solidarity from seattle wa usa

[MrChileung]

@Sekatathefag I am sure too. That is why chinese regime still wants to keep it negotiate with Taiwan. Taiwan to China is so important because that is the only place that China can break through the encompassment of the western, especially the states. Taiwan to states is so important because taiwan is the most uncertain place that states can rely on to encompass china.

[yangyangpeter]

@MrChileung There will be a fight for Taiwan, that's inevitable but not necessarily a war. For China, history has proved bullets and missiles never worked. They need to show both the power of the country and high spiritual level of the people. They believe this is the only way that TW will reunite with mainland. The States will never start fire on that island unless China declares war otherwise it would be pure invasion. It's more likely to be diplomatic manipulations between US and CN.

[MrChileung]

@yangyangpeter What I really worry about is the underboard action taken by CCP. Like the underboard manipulation of president election or other democracy related matters which means the institution is being insidiously corrupted. Like what happen in HK. PM Deng Xiaoping promised that 2 institution in 1 country will be guaranteed for at least 50 years. I doubted. It is just so ridiculous to see how the executive of HK special administrative district and high rank officials are elected.

[MerrIoI]

♦♦♦ ATTENTION ♦♦♦

@Sekatathefag = Taiwanese SHIT-EATER

During the current global economic depression, Taiwanese SHIT-EATER eats shit for a living. When he eats enough shits -- a lot of shits, he starts bullshitting like an imbecile in incoherent TAIWANESE ENGLISH on YouTube with his 200+ accounts to seek attention by childish provocation, and then laugh at his own retarded Taiwanese wit. He recycles his shits daily, sometimes as soon as they come out of his gapping asshole. Haha!

[MerrIoI]

♦♦♦ ATTENTION ♦♦♦

@Sekatathefag = Taiwanese SHIT-EATER

A 47-year-old, jobless, lonely, 100% Taiwanese native freak suffers from Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and Multiple Personality Disorder in Taiwantown of Montreal, Canada. The middle-aged sicko has problem with social interaction with people, so he has to channel his desire for communication in a perverted way and becomes an Internet psycho / faggot / pedophile on YouTube 24/7 for 4 years, including Christmas and New Year.

[yangyangpeter]

@MrChileung HK is complicated issue. For sure the central government would dismiss 2 in 2 asap so that they can have better control of it, but it's not doable. The consequences will be pretty bad if do it. On the other hand, HK has brought Chian numerous problems, including providing shelters for rogue officials. There are so many of them took money to HK and left (HK is still a free port). Corruption is a big problem and HK is a key to it.

[MrChileung]

@Sekatathefag That is another issue. It reported that china now have 1,500 missile aiming Taiwan. I doubted they all work. lol which means they are not going to really launch. Yes, china does dare to do such stupid things. And Western would get into war with china as their last last last option in any situation. If that happened, 3rd world war would break out definitely.

[yangyangpeter]

@Sekatathefag No they won't no matter how bad they want taiwan. They simply don't dare to. Taiwan issue is more complicated than democracy.

[yangyangpeter]

@Sekatathefag I said thing in large scale wont happen. Minor violence will sill occur. When you look at something, you need to see what beyond the fact. The only reason for 6/4 to happen was their confidence in info blocking. Apparent the can't anymore, so they won't.

[MrChileung]

@Sekatathefag there won't be a war between for this matter. If so, that would be so ridiculous.

[MrChileung]

@Sekatathefag The truth is the student did try to progress the democracy in a peaceful way and unfortunately, they were relentlessly and violently suppressed by military force which are manipulated by those who has valued their own interest over the people. How violent it is, we leave it to those who really know the truth. But we did agree that is unjust and ashamed that the government uses its force to suppress the civilians.

[yangyangpeter]

@Sekatathefag Like what I said, history is a mystery. You would never know. Thing as severe in scale as 6/4 is not gonna happen again in China for a long time. It doesn't mean minor scale violence won't happen. This is the same for every country in the world. People are spiritually starving, that's why civilization is moving forward but only the technology. See what people are fed with? Video games, celebrity scandals etc. We need thoughts and philosophers like Socrates and Plato!

[MrChileung]

@Sekatathefag That is true. IT IS REALLY SAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I dont understand. no way for me to understand how they can do this to our people. 

[MrChileung]

@Sekatathefag we did hear bullet sound from some resources, which means fire exchanges or fire did occur. However, some pictures are really fake. Wikileak previous argued that no physical evidence prove that military forces were killing people at that time. This is a tough issue. I would say that is an unwise and extreme violent political suppression. Massacre totally transforms the situation by adding resentment.

Love to talk with people here. lol

[MrChileung]

@Sekatathefag let me explain. Corruption is rife throughout the military and government and that is publicly agreed. The point is every individual military force have a share of benefit from it? I doubted. And individuals are the ones who undertake the injustice. I would not say they are all corrupted. I guess you must have watched the documentary of tian an men square. U remembered some soldiers cried when they were halted on the way marching into city. Some units retreated.

[MrChileung]

@Sekatathefag More than true. I would say they still have those merit somewhere deeply inside. But take some time when they are in need. Quite sad.

[yangyangpeter]

@Sekatathefag Geographically, flood in China, especially along Yangtze River is pretty bad ass. Unless they build barrages higher than a building, water can always get over. The physical problem is, if it's higher, it's weaker. That's the trade off. Since you have no idea of the 1998 flood, take a look at BBC shows about flood, you can even see soldiers lining up in British cameras. I don't want to laugh at you just because you don't know about it. I respect you though.

[yangyangpeter]

@Sekatathefag Just because you don't know it doesn't mean it never happened. There is a thing called "Google". I highly suggest you use it to see more good sides. Criticism is essential, but should be unbiased in the first place. Just try "1998 flood" , "Tangshan earthquake" and "2008 earthquake". 

[harry2sing4u]

@yangyangpeter, @MrChileung a.o, I'm trying hard to find info about Wukan. My interest in China was raised in '89; my daughters were the same age as many students. Picked up your comments on this video from page 1, happy you elaborate so I understand better. I believe it is useful to post news items. I do not believe the western world will react, not until it is too late. Pointless or not, I will keep writing and singing about 6/4 and what happens now. Wake up World! Like it or not: We are One!

[yangyangpeter]

@harry2sing4u 6/4 was not only a government problem, but more likely to be a problem of the entire Chinese population. Ever since late Qing after 1840, China was never the one shaped world by the one being dominated by western world. People surely had lost what once to be the most important to Chinese culture, responsibility, honor and love, not only love for families but also love for the people and the world. It's sad. Unless Chinese realize it and get back to Confucianism, shits won't stop.

[harry2sing4u]

@yangyangpeter Thank you for reacting! I'm learning. What you write about love is sad! Yet I believe it will be inevitable in the long run for the world to realize it has to be One World. Also learning new inventive ways to use the word "shits". :)

[yangyangpeter]

@harry2sing4u Yeah, it surely will take a long time. Sadly, when expect UN to be more functional, it appears its power got weaken. True democracy or communism will not come until mankind evolves spiritually. See what happens in US, in 2000, we vote for Bush. Months later we start criticizing him intensively. Even the supporting rate was way low in 2003, still we voted for him in 2004 (Seriously?) Also for Obama, same thing. The public is blind, how can democracy work?

[harry2sing4u]

@yangyangpeter There are too many issues to react to in a few words, but one that sticks out like a sore thumb is Guantanamo Bay. Obama promised to close that. This is an outrage to many of us, and it's just one example. This clearly goes to show that democracy is failing too.

[yangyangpeter]

@harry2sing4u the success of democracy depends on people rather than politics. Let's go back to WW2. After the war, the West put democracy into Japan and Germany system. Guess what? Half century later, it turns out they were doing way better than the States. You have to admire their national spirits, manners and discipline. That was why they could conquer half of the world.

[harry2sing4u]

@yangyangpeter No argument there! That's the general mistake made in this part of the world, we blame politics. But that is changing. A change of mentality is what we dearly need in Europe and USA. I wonder if we can achieve that in time. If we can't we will have to learn the hard way. So what? As long as we'll learn the world will be better. ( I appreciate our chat. Have to think very hard to express my opinion in just a few words :)

[yangyangpeter]

@harry2sing4u I don't believe I will be able to witness the change in humanity in my life time. Unless something terrible and related to the fate of our race happens, hardly mankind can unite. Ppl talk about corporation everyday, but they have no idea what true corporation is. It's not just to work together when you need each other, but to work together on everything. In words, global corporation is more like using each other for now. US uses JP to irratate CN, and SK uses US for protection.

[harry2sing4u]

@yangyangpeter we see that on a smaller scale here in Europe, that is my hope for these times, that before I die I see it become more one in mentality and decision making. Belgium has a government, finally! It looked like it would fall apart in a flemish and a french part, that would have been a serious setback! One thing is certain: the coming year will see many changes but what they portend no one really knows.

[MrChileung]

@harry2sing4u The western world possibly have no way to actually intervene the issue. So forget about it. Even there is a violent suppression and that is known to the rest of the world, they won't let a word out in China territory. I tried to search Wukan issue in Baidu which is the chinese search engine which is under monitoring by the state. Results are not censored so far. Which means the officials are still working on resolve this problem in peace.

Yes, we are one.

[harry2sing4u]

@MrChileung That sounds hopeful. Thank you!

[MrChileung]

@yangyangpeter good point. ive never thought of your point of the democracy！what causes this is the leader consider their own interest over the the interest of the long term for their people and the world. i did hear that endless argument. do u think the world is getting more n more chaostic

[yangyangpeter]

@MrChileung Well, based on the global situation right now, my answer is a yes. Lately, due to economic depression, crime incidence is getting higher everywhere. Take a look at China, how many bad things have taken place so far in 2011? More than ever! You can argue it might be because of better information flow. People can know much more than they used to. But my point is, if people don't get the shit together and keep fighting each other, there will be no future for mankind but extinction.

[MrChileung]

@yangyangpeter so the conclusion might be those good people should stand forward，esp. those who really have a say. seems like the shadow is expanding and tends to engulf the light because less light are turned on. that is kinda sad. that is what i think given fhe situation of my country.

[yangyangpeter]

@MrChileung Remember Euripides once said, "Those whom God wishes to destroy, he first makes mad." Are we mad enough? Yes. Are we heading to the end of the world? Probably, if you justify by global warming and species extinction. Even there is no "Mayan end of the world" in 2012, our fate, for now, is foreseeable.

[desertvapor]

thank you Jennifer

[MrChileung]

@Sekatathefag Please let me clarify that we are all people. We both agree there are some people out there can't be bought off! It is a matter of fact that some of the military force have done nasty things to its people because of the abuse of authority of their supervisors. However, they are not frequent.

Speak of Tian men square, I guess you and me have not witness a massacre, even in the footage that we are able to watch. I am not defending the evil. I put just forward my opinions.

[yangyangpeter]

@MrChileung Well, you could never know what happened unless you witnessed the history. But one thing is certain, people did get hurt in 6/4. As a matter of fact, there are both good people and bad people, and that's how our civilization is made up of. The world is definitely a better place without the evil, however, that's impossible. Whenever there is light, there is shadow.

[yangyangpeter]

@Sekatathefag If you talk about corruption, I totally agree with you. Also it's true that CCP ruling is fascism, but again it's CCP not the real communists. Real communism is exactly like perfect democracy, which is something like Plato's Republic, is a kind of idealized world. All of the shits you said might be true, but what's the point? Those shits happen everyday everywhere. Posting videos and comments can never help. If you live China, there are tons of things can piss you off everyday.

[MrChileung]

@yangyangpeter Totally agree! They are not representative of communism. The idea has died from the very beginning.

[yangyangpeter]

@MrChileung It's a shame actually. The western world believe communism is evil simply because of Stalin that bastard. But they never realized how Stalin came to power and how different he was from Lenin. Same thing as how Khrushchev differs from Stalin. When communism came to China, it had already changed because it was USSR style communism, not the one written by Karl Marx. Therefore, it would be a hilarious mistake to call CCP, North Korea, Vietnam and Cuba communists.

[yangyangpeter]

@Sekatathefag Also, I want to remind you, when there was an earthquake, it was PLA went there and help those people. When there was flood, it was PLA who lined up and block the water. You can call it government propaganda, but you can't deny they really helped and thousands of them died. The thing is, when you look at something, you should see both the good side and bad side of it. Those June 4 troops were only a small portion of the entire PLA. I'm not saying they are nice, but just ok.

[yangyangpeter]

@Sekatathefag First of all, that was not the army but some special force police. In the past these people were given great power and privileges that sometimes they could even shoot someone and report later. Now they no longer have that power as the police system is getting completed, so you can mainly see them at the gates of consulates and embassy and other government offices. If you go back to the videos of June 4, you can see their uniform is not official army uniform.

[yangyangpeter]

@Sekatathefag Apparently you should read some philosophy books. Also some environment books. Stop caring about how unfair the world is or how bad some governments are. What needs immediate attention is our own planet. Comparing to murdering and slaughtering, politicians should be cursed more for ignoring how worse this only beautiful world is heading. Wake up people! Kyoto Protocol Phase 2 negotiation is a failure. They don't give a fuck about the world except their own interests. Damn it!

[MrChileung]

@yangyangpeter Yup. they are not really giving a shit to the protocol. the world is all about the interest. No one country is generous enough to sacrifice for the rest of the world. Even the States!

[yangyangpeter]

@MrChileung Especially the States if you remember they were one of the last countries to sign Phase one KP. Explicitly, they claim that is for their people's good since they need to increase the national production. Deeply inside, we can see that is the ABSOLUTE NEGATIVE SIDE OF DEMOCRACY. Those politicians need to show how the economy improved in order to get elected. You see, countries like China even though are not democratic, they have more global responsibility comparing to developed ones.

[yangyangpeter]

@Sekatathefag So what OWS is over. People got beaten, pepper sprayed and arrested. Same thing as in China. That's what I am trying to say, all FUCKING GOVERNMENTS are the same. BTW, you call CCP communist? Seriously? Apparently they are far different from Karl Marx and Lenin. They are true communists and that was communism supposed to be. Not Stalin or Mao. Either democracy or communism cannot survive in politics. Politics are all monarchy in a way even for a Federal government.

[kyc001323]

Democracy is highly irritating word to the government. Now what people simply want is an explanation and give them back their land. Politic restructure is after the story....Now what people worry is militaries will kill them on wednesday. Unorganised move and speech may lead all the citizens to death. Of course, if the Chinese government insisted to keeping silence to this case, things will just getting worse in all aspects.....

[yangyangpeter]

@kyc001323 You are partially right. It's not the military will kill them but the police. Same thing as in the States, the police are fucking jerks and soldiers are okay. Well, at least most of them. Trust me I had enough personal experience with the police. You have to feel sorry for those uneducated villagers because their action does not help the situation at all and might potentially put them in danger. There is no way you can get explanations from officials, EVER!

[MrChileung]

@yangyangpeter Even in US? Interesting. I heard some news from my friend here that they are so lazy and try to put the case to close in every possible way..

Ya, I agree that police enforcement are not well disciplined. I hope that can be changed in the world.

[yangyangpeter]

@MrChileung Here at our PD in Seattle, robberies happen every single week. No of the cases are solved ever! Police brutality is not odd, police without brutality actually is kinda strange. You see those officers in street are nice here in Seattle. At night, they pepper spray 80-year-old and pregnant women. That's the world we are living in.

[MrChileung]

@kyc001323 true. the only solution that can avoid conflicts between civilians and military force is that someone who has the adequate authority and stands out to argue the justice for the villagers. The situation has been intense for almost three months. I don't want that would turn into a bloody conflict like in 6/4. God bless my fellow citizens.

[Vyskochkova1]

The chinese central government is behind this, but the people have to ask mercifully for the central government to help them. How absurd! Imagine these poor people, being screwed by their own government. This news will spread all over china fast, and the citizens will bring down the central government and have free elections. And they will kill the former leaders at trials, and with a bullet to their heads, just as they killed their own citizens. Unite in this important fight, citizens!

[yangyangpeter]

@TibetArchive The thing is, when you know there is "Occupy Wall Street" going on, you will join them and do something similar, like "Occupy Seattle". If Chinese know there is protest going on in Wukan, very possibly soon there will be another one somewhere else. This is Chaos, nobody wants that. I can assure you, if you ask one ordinary Chinese people whether or not to stand up against government, few people will. Why? Because they want to live a normal life.

[yangyangpeter]

@Sekatathefag Are you dumb? Im not defending anyone here. You think CCP is evil what about your democratic government huh? Federal government is not evil? Who the hell cares about you people anyway? Senators? Wake up idiot, that's politics, no matter what type of government. I can tell you this, I don't like CCP, and I don't like democracy either. What do I like? Something like UN, if UN is effective enough. BTW I think you guys should know CCP is no longer communist anymore.

[Zhijing78]

@yangyangpeter 老兄，对于其他任何时间，我都能支持政府，但是这个乌坎事件，政­府自己找抽。

wish wukan ppl good luck, and be safe

[yangyangpeter]

@Zhijing78 我从来就没说过我支持政府，相反，我觉得所有政府都是一样，联邦­政府也好，中央政府也罢。政府就没有找抽的时候，天天这么pro­test，老百姓日子怎么过？假如因为这个其他地方的人也开始搞­这些，最后无辜的是谁？天下不知足的百姓多了去了，你政府再好，­他们也能找出各种理由来抵制你。所以Point is，这种无谓的protest不应该被支持，因为根本不会有效­果，而且还会引发暴力。

[bandarifans1]

I can't believe i know nothing about this though i'm a Chinese.

[mysmilei]

@bandarifans1 Many Chinese people do not know about it.

[Unnecessary21]

I support the villagers

[shamshumpo]

your must attention safe at coming wednesday

[yangyangpeter]

People, dont be such a fool. It's not just China, this shit happens everywhere even in democratic United States if you remember there was a protest going on in NYC couple of weeks ago. You think those Fed people were innocent? No, they were behind everything just exactly like those Chinese officers. They don't give a fuck about anyone but only their own interest. Politics's just for those bozos to accomplish their ambition.

[Stringfun243]

I think a couple thing may happen. 1) Will be crushed quietly at night like June 4, or 2) Bejing will oust the local leadership, 3) combination of both, not endorsing local revolt or endorsing corrupt local officials. The economic reforms supported to date are catchy, just like glasnost was in Russia. Give a people a taste of 'owning', then take away is asking for major ill will.

[yangyangpeter]

@Stringfun243 Fool, it won't be crushed like June 4 at all. In fact, things like June 4 will not happen again until China shifts to a new government. They must be completely out of their minds if they decide to shoot those protesters of send tanks to crush them in such a real-time-information+powerful internet AGE. Apparently they don't wish the whole 1.3 billion population stand up against the government, do they? Besides, personally I believe crushing is necessary sometimes to chaos.

[A1R5N1P3R]

My advice: keep copy-pasting the watch portion of related video url's to topical chinese videos seen here on youtube and elsewhere (forums, social networks) and enough may be said to actually raise the subject in phone conversations to mainland China or activist groups therein. The only way they'll make it is if news gets in and enough international interest shown.