Tanja Szewczenko (GER) - 1997 NHK Trophy, Ladies' Free Skate

[MrDolenz]

always liked her, but she had bad luck

[fjn219]

Planned EIGHT triple jumps? Was that allowed?!

[MrDolenz]

@fjn219 no 7 for women 8 for men

[fjn219]

@MrDolenz That's what I am thinking. So @0:50 Tracy's comment was wrong.

[cleicsioluek]

@fjn219 I'm not sure about what I'm about to say, but I think the ladies are allowed only a jump once in a program. So that makes it 5. Then, you can have 2 triple-triple combination, since only the loop and the toe-loop can make combination. So that goes up to 9 triples in a routine. So yea, she can do 8 triple jumps.

[cleicsioluek]

@cleicsioluek And this is why many skaters have 2 triple lutzes in their program

[fjn219]

@cleicsioluek Not really. Since most of the ladies don't plan a triple axel, they have 5 kinds of triples to do. In addition, they are allowed to repeat only 2 kinds of triples. That makes 7 (5 + 2 = 7) triples the maximum.

[cleicsioluek]

@fjn219 I strongly think that it can be up to 9, because if you are allowed to repeat a jump in combintation. So if you do a triple lutz and then a triple lutz-triple-toe (ok, not in these days, but now), I think they counted them as 3 triple jumps.

[fjn219]

@cleicsioluek Then what else? Since you've done 2 triple lutz, you can only repeat one more kind of triple, say, triple flip. So overall you can do: 2 triple lutz, 2 triple flip, 1 triple toe, 1 triple loop 1 triple salchow. That's a total of 7.

[cleicsioluek]

@fjn219 I meant: If you have 2 triple-triple combination.

Let's say.... a triple salchow-triple toe and a triple flip-triple loop. That's makes 4 triple jumps in combination. Then, you add up to the 5 that you can do, because they are not in combination, and that makes a total of 9

[fjn219]

@cleicsioluek Then you will have two triple salchows, two triple toes, two triple flips and two triple loops, which is NOT allowed. Again, only two kinds of triples can be repeated, no matter they are solo jumps or in combinations.

[cleicsioluek]

@fjn219 "Skaters can only repeat two triple or quadruple jumps, only if at least one of the attempts at each repeated jump is in a jump combination or sequence, and no triple or quadruple jump may be attempted more than twice." I don't get it. Seriously.

[3Axel1996]

@cleicsioluek There are 6 different types of triple jumps: toe loop, Salchow, loop, flip, Lutz and Axel. You can attempt/land each one ONCE as a solo jump. You are then allowed to repeat 2 of those 6 triples a 2nd time, but it has to be in a jump combination or a jump sequence. So if you landed each of the different triples once, then of those 6, you can only repeat 2 of them, but in a jump combination or jump sequence. Therefore, the maximum triples allowed is 8.

[3Axel1996]

@3Axel1996 With the Ladies, most of them don't bother with the Axel, because it's too difficult. So they the maximum we see from most Ladies is 7.

[cleicsioluek]

@3Axel1996 Then I don't get how you can count the triple-triple combinations in that case. (Sorry for being that annoying. I prefer to know it once for all!)

[3Axel1996]

@cleicsioluek Say for a Men's Free Skate Program: If you landed each type of triple once as a solo jump, then you can only perform 1 triple-triple combination where the triples have to be different kinds of triples (ie: triple Axel-triple toe loop). You cannot do a triple toe-triple toe combination because that would have meant the triple toe was done 3 times in a program.

[3Axel1996]

@3Axel1996 If you perform 2 triple-triple combinations, that's 4 triples, meaning you can only perform 4 more triple jumps (without repeating any one kind more than 2 times)...

[3Axel1996]

@3Axel1996 The thing to remember is that regardless, the main rule is that you cannot repeat more than 2 different types of triples...and when you repeat a triple, it has to be in a jump combination, or jump sequence. And in the Free Skate, skaters are not allowed to do more than 3 jump combinations and/or jump sequences.

[cleicsioluek]

@3Axel1996 So Tara's Triple loop-triple loop combination will not allow her to do one more.... (same goes for Michelle Kwan's triple toe-triple toe combination) right?

[3Axel1996]

@cleicsioluek Right. Tara would not be able to do another triple loop, and Michelle would not be able to do another triple toe loop. And both would be in the position to only be able to repeat just 1 other triple jump.

[cleicsioluek]

@3Axel1996 Ok, thx for making it clear ^^