not sure how to respond, a very difficult film to watch, beautiful though, very much reminds me of Days of Heaven in it's feel, a painful reminder of the confusion of childhood, things are much clearer as we grow older. love to be able to read what the writer had in mind
noooooooooo this is wrong ..why seth didn't tell them about the boys ..they are criminals they should go to jail or else they're going to kill seth too
Seth was screaming because he felt responsible for her death and he felt he wished her dead. The black car was a symbol of Seths hatred for Dolphin. I really believe that Seth killed her in the end and the black car was his minds way out. Anyway I may be all wrong about it and only the author can really tell us what he was thinking when he wrote it. Good movie though and very different.
Heard about thios movie for yeas after kind of enjoying the director's other flick The Passion Of Darkly Noon. So thanks for uploading. Did I enjoy it? I'm not sure you really can..it's to be admired certainly, endured! Technically some of it was very well made, some not so much. Acting was a mixed bag. Very disturbing though. I think at it's core its a movie about not so much the loss of innocence as the nature of evil. I think Seth's path is pretty much laid out at the end.
1990- Vite une suite car si l'innocence du bébé est à la naiveté de l'enfance, la dramatique de la fin arrive trop rapidement, c'est carrément raté; ou il manque un bout d'histoire ou c'est le budget. Il me semble que si tu vois ton père se brulé vif tu commences à te poser des questions même à neuf ans, ou tu en poses à ceux qui t'entoures, même dans les années 50. Fignolé psy c'est fignolé p'tit. J'aime pas.
So seth is now dressed in black and the widow in white... has seth lost a brother with a soul or has he just lost a brother?
Then we see the widow travel off with the men in the car - the one's who took seth's other friend... Does the widow know that they are death; is she shifting her fate onto the older brother? Or are the men in the car forces of fate/ nature beyond anyone's control? Moral ambiguity abounds; that's why most religions have just closed the door on extramarital relations.
@nathanwilefrazier She's not married: her husband killed himself. But I do see where you're coming from when it concerns the importance of the 'serial' killers in the car. Seth knew they would kill her because he is still fully convinced that she's a vampire. It's only until the end that he realized to some childish degree that he let her die and now his brother lost an important person...I think it's at this point that he realizes the gravity of loss, something he hadn't known up until then.
@DarkquestDeathhunter But doesn't Seth seem frantic to warn his brother about the risks of falling in love with the vampire widow earlier? Is he doing this out of jealousy of their relationship (a selfish motive) or out of fear for his brother's soul (a more noble motive)? Is the widow good (i.e. a victim of fate, her unconscious, the forces of nature beyond her control, the men in the car...) or is she evil (cloying, emotionally needy, soul sucking)? Who should be dressed in black/white?
@nathanwilefrazier I dont believe he is doing anything necessarily noble....this entire movie he is riding the line of psychotic self-interest. The child never expresses pity or empathy for anyone, not even himself (granted, being only 9 or so precludes any chance of self-reflection until later), including his brother, whom he selfishly wants all to himself. I think you're closer when you mention jealousy: he isn't acting out of nobility when he is trying to drag Cam from Dolphine's body....
@DarkquestDeathhunter This is definitely a complex movie. Similar symbolism seems to cross reference each part of the movie with several others - e.g. Cam could see his reflection in the war baby's burned skin (from an atomic blast, Cam was a demolition expert, & Seth was D's "little demolition man..."), Dolphine loved her deceased husband's skin, "vampires" generally cannot see their own reflection... So what is "the reflecting skin" symbolizing...? (I'd argue the foundation of one's soul...)
@nathanwilefrazier I'm not really one for symbolism as it is so close to reading tea leaves (in which, perhaps, anything can be surmised) but there are definite parrallels throughout: the baby's atomic seared skin/Seth's father's skin 'turning all funny' when he self-immolates/the dead baby in the barn, the angel's loosing it's wings conversation/the destroyed angel statue with scattered stone wings (a possible reference to childhood innocence lost).....
@DarkquestDeathhunter If this were real life, interpreting these symbols definitely would amount to reading tea leaves. But I suspect that Ridley and the director may have deliberately developed this system of cross referenced symbolism as a dream-like story telling device here (?)
@DarkquestDeathhunter Interpreting them explicitly however does get into some VERY dark stuff: a husband driven to pedophilia by a sherwish wife, a wife that is shrewish because her husband is not interested in her, the fall of man, cloying/lonely masturbating vampire widows, a son (Cam) that pulls away from his mother's cloying & incestuous hug - which causes her to berate him, a mother that forces her son to urinate on himself, a boy that forces air into a frog to explode in the widow's face,
@DarkquestDeathhunter ...the widow's face, angles that have lost their wings, innocence/ paradise lost, the loss of love relationships due to their "searing heat," loss of the soul, etc A major aspect of love relationships (and early childhood development) is the soul-to-soul connection that is established via "mirroring" of eachother's emotions as read primarily via eye contact - i.e. "seeing one's reflection in another's face (or skin)."
@DarkquestDeathhunter A major aspect of love relationships (and early childhood development) is the soul-to-soul connection that is established via "mirroring" of eachother's emotions as read primarily via eye contact - i.e. "seeing one's reflection in another's face (or skin)."
@DarkquestDeathhunter As soon as the forbidden fruit is eaten however (a "demolition man" gives a "blast"), the expulsion from paridise is set in motion (perhaps symbolized by gluttony/ excessive intake of fluids?), opposite gender relationships end in abandonment (two dead husbands, a dead girlfriend, etc), and the soul-to-soul connection is lost (or the reflecting skin is seared), etc.
@DarkquestDeathhunter Ridely's other works deal with similar psycho-religious themes and shed some light on one another. I highly recommend "Heartless."
@nathanwilefrazier Dolphine's very name/further water references such as the boy's body found in the well, Seth's 'water torture' (and eventual pissing), Cam's time on a ship, water, pools, wells, reflecting surfaces, reflecting skin, self-reflection, forced attrition (as by the screaming mother, demanding Seth acknowledge his 'sins'), all of which my point to Seth's inability to see right and wrong....something Seth cannot do with others, as in, see himself, or empathize, or.....
@nathanwilefrazier Or to put his 'soul at hazard', as Tommy Lee Jones say in No Country For Old Men (young Seth himself a candidate to become a Chigurh in the making)....he knows enough not to ride with the boys (cryptically vowing, "not today," to ride with them) only for selfish motivations (to kill the widow) and not that he fears for his own life (which would require self-reflection, or a reflecting-skin). What do you think? Like I said, much of this is tea leaves, some, real symbols.
@DarkquestDeathhunter that of which he does only at the end, as I think he is incapable of self-reflection. This is perhaps the crux of Seth's dilemma as a child: that he sees no consequences to his actions, or to see the death of others as being a model of one's own death, and as such, something to be averred. This could arguably be at odds with the scene in which the marauding boys return to give Dolphine her 'final' journey, in as much as Seth recognizes his own mortality at risk...
@nathanwilefrazier Also, at the end, he cries out to the skies (implied here as a cry to heaven, read: God) out of confusion....I think his mind is skating into territory that he is uncomfortable with, ie: pity and compassion. He sees that Cam is in real emotional (and physical pain from radiation sickness) and these emotions are relatively new.....he may only react this way because he saw his father crying earlier, which resulted in his eventual suicide. To Seth's mind.....
@DarkquestDeathhunter male grief and anguish is equated with suicide and death, possibly a very basic syllogism for a child, ultimately rooted in the need to satisfy his needs. His caterwail at the end is more confusion than catharsis. Now, when it comes to the widow Dolphine, I think he mistrusted her from the moment she was honest with him about growing old....you can see his expression change at the baldness of reconizing that honesty, also something he is probably unfamiliar with.
@nathanwilefrazier Ultimately nathan, this movie plumbs the depths of severe childhood trauma, although in this movie the fantasy elements may be more salient than in reality. A child that is severely reprimanded by being forced to drink excessive water by an overbearing mother, a pedophile/murderer for a father, an emotionally cold brother....is it any surprise he turns to dead babies and serial killers as his confidants and allies? It's a fascinating movie.
@DarkquestDeathhunter Though I agree with your synopsis on the whole, the father was never a pedophile nor a murderer, if anything, he was actually only gay and forced into a loveless marriage through small town societal pressure. He was essentially an innocent victim.
@DarkquestDeathhunter Heheheh all good, I agree. When the first boy was found, and where he was found, it was easy to pin it on the dad because of his "past". You know, small town + homosexual = child killing pervert.
@nathanwilefrazier Basically, the movie is simply about the loss of childhood innocence. The widow is not evil, she is just a sad lonely woman. The whole premise of "vampires" is just a child's mind, the loss of his father, friends and eventually someone that could have provided happiness to his dying brother is all simply telling the story of innocence being lost to acts beyond his control.
@Chastrie If she's not evil then why does she tell him all those lies about life getting worse as you get older? Also, has Seth really lost any of his innocence at the end? If so, then why is he screaming like that?
@Videoneoneo She's telling him life get's "worse" because it's what happens when you get older, she is explaining how important it is to be loved. As for the screaming, his father and all of his friends are dead, perhaps that's why.
My first impression: Odd and tantalizing at the same time. What is so sad is that Seth doesn't seem to realize that it's those blokes in the car who commit crimes and that he doesn't tell anyone. Anyways, thanks for the upload!
Certainly a movie that had a lot of potential. Some strikingly beautiful scenes; a beautiful, haunting soundtrack; and an interestingly strange plot. But some terrible acting, unrealalistic coincidences, and bad plot contrivances keep this movie from being a "classic".
I'd love for this to be remade. A better script and actors, and you could really create something important. I'd keep Ridley on board. He definately knows how to capture beautifully creepy, potent moments.
this is one of those movies that use to come on cable at like 1am on a tuesday lol. this is such a great movie. i always hoped that with viggo's popularity, this movie would get rediscovered. its always been my dream to curate a movie fest/screening with movies that were forgotten by time; reflecting skin, parents, out of the blue, hal hartley's first 2 films (trust & unbelievable truth), etc etc
not sure how to respond, a very difficult film to watch, beautiful though, very much reminds me of Days of Heaven in it's feel, a painful reminder of the confusion of childhood, things are much clearer as we grow older. love to be able to read what the writer had in mind
wmperkins25 1 week ago
noooooooooo this is wrong ..why seth didn't tell them about the boys ..they are criminals they should go to jail or else they're going to kill seth too
3o9afa 1 month ago
this movie was weird. I didnt understand ending.
aliciadom 1 month ago
@aliciadom beautiful day or bad day
when is the sun going to end ..nothing happen
mass23ify 3 weeks ago
Thanks for uploading. I love Lindsay Duncan SO MUCH!
LexeconKiddo 1 month ago
@LexeconKiddo Me too! You're welcome :)
Chastrie 1 month ago
YYYEEAAAHHHH!!!!!!! GOOD JOB SETH !!!!!!
Brendaspaperclip 2 months ago
Seth was screaming because he felt responsible for her death and he felt he wished her dead. The black car was a symbol of Seths hatred for Dolphin. I really believe that Seth killed her in the end and the black car was his minds way out. Anyway I may be all wrong about it and only the author can really tell us what he was thinking when he wrote it. Good movie though and very different.
Bob02895 2 months ago
Seth Dove is the omen of death.
Vernicitive 4 months ago
Heard about thios movie for yeas after kind of enjoying the director's other flick The Passion Of Darkly Noon. So thanks for uploading. Did I enjoy it? I'm not sure you really can..it's to be admired certainly, endured! Technically some of it was very well made, some not so much. Acting was a mixed bag. Very disturbing though. I think at it's core its a movie about not so much the loss of innocence as the nature of evil. I think Seth's path is pretty much laid out at the end.
rorschach01 4 months ago
This was very good. I recommend also Northfork
Similar themes, setting and style
euthydemos 5 months ago
i dont understand why he never tells anyone about the men in the black cadilac
nightstalkerck 7 months ago
One of the most unique movies I've seen. Thanks so much for the uploading!
WozWozWozniacki 8 months ago
Wow, thanks for posting this movie! I haven't been able to find it on DVD. Very interesting reading all the responses as well.
pyladd 11 months ago 2
@pyladd Welcome :)
Chastrie 11 months ago
in which part does the boy gets asked to play with his friends and he answers they are all dead? i really wanna see that scene
EmJayV 1 year ago
1990- Vite une suite car si l'innocence du bébé est à la naiveté de l'enfance, la dramatique de la fin arrive trop rapidement, c'est carrément raté; ou il manque un bout d'histoire ou c'est le budget. Il me semble que si tu vois ton père se brulé vif tu commences à te poser des questions même à neuf ans, ou tu en poses à ceux qui t'entoures, même dans les années 50. Fignolé psy c'est fignolé p'tit. J'aime pas.
gustav71799 1 year ago
So seth is now dressed in black and the widow in white... has seth lost a brother with a soul or has he just lost a brother?
Then we see the widow travel off with the men in the car - the one's who took seth's other friend... Does the widow know that they are death; is she shifting her fate onto the older brother? Or are the men in the car forces of fate/ nature beyond anyone's control? Moral ambiguity abounds; that's why most religions have just closed the door on extramarital relations.
nathanwilefrazier 1 year ago
@nathanwilefrazier She's not married: her husband killed himself. But I do see where you're coming from when it concerns the importance of the 'serial' killers in the car. Seth knew they would kill her because he is still fully convinced that she's a vampire. It's only until the end that he realized to some childish degree that he let her die and now his brother lost an important person...I think it's at this point that he realizes the gravity of loss, something he hadn't known up until then.
DarkquestDeathhunter 1 year ago
@DarkquestDeathhunter But doesn't Seth seem frantic to warn his brother about the risks of falling in love with the vampire widow earlier? Is he doing this out of jealousy of their relationship (a selfish motive) or out of fear for his brother's soul (a more noble motive)? Is the widow good (i.e. a victim of fate, her unconscious, the forces of nature beyond her control, the men in the car...) or is she evil (cloying, emotionally needy, soul sucking)? Who should be dressed in black/white?
nathanwilefrazier 1 year ago
@nathanwilefrazier I dont believe he is doing anything necessarily noble....this entire movie he is riding the line of psychotic self-interest. The child never expresses pity or empathy for anyone, not even himself (granted, being only 9 or so precludes any chance of self-reflection until later), including his brother, whom he selfishly wants all to himself. I think you're closer when you mention jealousy: he isn't acting out of nobility when he is trying to drag Cam from Dolphine's body....
DarkquestDeathhunter 1 year ago
@DarkquestDeathhunter This is definitely a complex movie. Similar symbolism seems to cross reference each part of the movie with several others - e.g. Cam could see his reflection in the war baby's burned skin (from an atomic blast, Cam was a demolition expert, & Seth was D's "little demolition man..."), Dolphine loved her deceased husband's skin, "vampires" generally cannot see their own reflection... So what is "the reflecting skin" symbolizing...? (I'd argue the foundation of one's soul...)
nathanwilefrazier 1 year ago
@nathanwilefrazier I'm not really one for symbolism as it is so close to reading tea leaves (in which, perhaps, anything can be surmised) but there are definite parrallels throughout: the baby's atomic seared skin/Seth's father's skin 'turning all funny' when he self-immolates/the dead baby in the barn, the angel's loosing it's wings conversation/the destroyed angel statue with scattered stone wings (a possible reference to childhood innocence lost).....
DarkquestDeathhunter 1 year ago
@DarkquestDeathhunter If this were real life, interpreting these symbols definitely would amount to reading tea leaves. But I suspect that Ridley and the director may have deliberately developed this system of cross referenced symbolism as a dream-like story telling device here (?)
nathanwilefrazier 1 year ago
@DarkquestDeathhunter Interpreting them explicitly however does get into some VERY dark stuff: a husband driven to pedophilia by a sherwish wife, a wife that is shrewish because her husband is not interested in her, the fall of man, cloying/lonely masturbating vampire widows, a son (Cam) that pulls away from his mother's cloying & incestuous hug - which causes her to berate him, a mother that forces her son to urinate on himself, a boy that forces air into a frog to explode in the widow's face,
nathanwilefrazier 1 year ago
@DarkquestDeathhunter ...the widow's face, angles that have lost their wings, innocence/ paradise lost, the loss of love relationships due to their "searing heat," loss of the soul, etc A major aspect of love relationships (and early childhood development) is the soul-to-soul connection that is established via "mirroring" of eachother's emotions as read primarily via eye contact - i.e. "seeing one's reflection in another's face (or skin)."
nathanwilefrazier 1 year ago
@DarkquestDeathhunter A major aspect of love relationships (and early childhood development) is the soul-to-soul connection that is established via "mirroring" of eachother's emotions as read primarily via eye contact - i.e. "seeing one's reflection in another's face (or skin)."
nathanwilefrazier 1 year ago
@DarkquestDeathhunter As soon as the forbidden fruit is eaten however (a "demolition man" gives a "blast"), the expulsion from paridise is set in motion (perhaps symbolized by gluttony/ excessive intake of fluids?), opposite gender relationships end in abandonment (two dead husbands, a dead girlfriend, etc), and the soul-to-soul connection is lost (or the reflecting skin is seared), etc.
nathanwilefrazier 1 year ago
@DarkquestDeathhunter Ridely's other works deal with similar psycho-religious themes and shed some light on one another. I highly recommend "Heartless."
nathanwilefrazier 1 year ago
@nathanwilefrazier Dolphine's very name/further water references such as the boy's body found in the well, Seth's 'water torture' (and eventual pissing), Cam's time on a ship, water, pools, wells, reflecting surfaces, reflecting skin, self-reflection, forced attrition (as by the screaming mother, demanding Seth acknowledge his 'sins'), all of which my point to Seth's inability to see right and wrong....something Seth cannot do with others, as in, see himself, or empathize, or.....
DarkquestDeathhunter 1 year ago
@nathanwilefrazier Or to put his 'soul at hazard', as Tommy Lee Jones say in No Country For Old Men (young Seth himself a candidate to become a Chigurh in the making)....he knows enough not to ride with the boys (cryptically vowing, "not today," to ride with them) only for selfish motivations (to kill the widow) and not that he fears for his own life (which would require self-reflection, or a reflecting-skin). What do you think? Like I said, much of this is tea leaves, some, real symbols.
DarkquestDeathhunter 1 year ago
@DarkquestDeathhunter that of which he does only at the end, as I think he is incapable of self-reflection. This is perhaps the crux of Seth's dilemma as a child: that he sees no consequences to his actions, or to see the death of others as being a model of one's own death, and as such, something to be averred. This could arguably be at odds with the scene in which the marauding boys return to give Dolphine her 'final' journey, in as much as Seth recognizes his own mortality at risk...
DarkquestDeathhunter 1 year ago
@nathanwilefrazier Also, at the end, he cries out to the skies (implied here as a cry to heaven, read: God) out of confusion....I think his mind is skating into territory that he is uncomfortable with, ie: pity and compassion. He sees that Cam is in real emotional (and physical pain from radiation sickness) and these emotions are relatively new.....he may only react this way because he saw his father crying earlier, which resulted in his eventual suicide. To Seth's mind.....
DarkquestDeathhunter 1 year ago
@DarkquestDeathhunter male grief and anguish is equated with suicide and death, possibly a very basic syllogism for a child, ultimately rooted in the need to satisfy his needs. His caterwail at the end is more confusion than catharsis. Now, when it comes to the widow Dolphine, I think he mistrusted her from the moment she was honest with him about growing old....you can see his expression change at the baldness of reconizing that honesty, also something he is probably unfamiliar with.
DarkquestDeathhunter 1 year ago
@nathanwilefrazier Ultimately nathan, this movie plumbs the depths of severe childhood trauma, although in this movie the fantasy elements may be more salient than in reality. A child that is severely reprimanded by being forced to drink excessive water by an overbearing mother, a pedophile/murderer for a father, an emotionally cold brother....is it any surprise he turns to dead babies and serial killers as his confidants and allies? It's a fascinating movie.
DarkquestDeathhunter 1 year ago
@DarkquestDeathhunter Though I agree with your synopsis on the whole, the father was never a pedophile nor a murderer, if anything, he was actually only gay and forced into a loveless marriage through small town societal pressure. He was essentially an innocent victim.
Chastrie 1 year ago
@Chastrie I stand corrected.....the father was 'set-up' by those boys in the car.....as to his sexuality, it's possible he was in the closet.
DarkquestDeathhunter 1 year ago
@DarkquestDeathhunter Heheheh all good, I agree. When the first boy was found, and where he was found, it was easy to pin it on the dad because of his "past". You know, small town + homosexual = child killing pervert.
*rolls eyes*
Chastrie 1 year ago
@nathanwilefrazier Basically, the movie is simply about the loss of childhood innocence. The widow is not evil, she is just a sad lonely woman. The whole premise of "vampires" is just a child's mind, the loss of his father, friends and eventually someone that could have provided happiness to his dying brother is all simply telling the story of innocence being lost to acts beyond his control.
Chastrie 1 year ago
@Chastrie If she's not evil then why does she tell him all those lies about life getting worse as you get older? Also, has Seth really lost any of his innocence at the end? If so, then why is he screaming like that?
Videoneoneo 1 year ago
@Videoneoneo She's telling him life get's "worse" because it's what happens when you get older, she is explaining how important it is to be loved. As for the screaming, his father and all of his friends are dead, perhaps that's why.
Chastrie 1 year ago
My first impression: Odd and tantalizing at the same time. What is so sad is that Seth doesn't seem to realize that it's those blokes in the car who commit crimes and that he doesn't tell anyone. Anyways, thanks for the upload!
Uushilumbu79 1 year ago
@Uushilumbu79 You're welcome! :)
Chastrie 1 year ago
what a depressing childhood
Lucia139 1 year ago
hey the guy who directed X-men Origins must have watched this movie...
daiklaive 1 year ago
Watched the first half on television today, but had to leave...Came here on Youtube and found it and watched the end. Tragic! Thanks for uploading!
POPPASHANGO 1 year ago
@POPPASHANGO You're welcome!
Chastrie 1 year ago
@mentos317 you are very welcome, thanks for the comment :)
Chastrie 1 year ago
Thanks for postingthis movie. I saw this many years ago and just watched it again. It is as bizzare and strange as I remembered. A cult classic!
rppr666 1 year ago
@rppr666 you're welcome, thanks for the comment! :)
Chastrie 1 year ago
Certainly a movie that had a lot of potential. Some strikingly beautiful scenes; a beautiful, haunting soundtrack; and an interestingly strange plot. But some terrible acting, unrealalistic coincidences, and bad plot contrivances keep this movie from being a "classic".
I'd love for this to be remade. A better script and actors, and you could really create something important. I'd keep Ridley on board. He definately knows how to capture beautifully creepy, potent moments.
7 out 10
kingwolf34 2 years ago 2
Wow. What a striking movie. Thanks for posting!
EleniH 2 years ago
My pleasure :)
Chastrie 2 years ago
this is one of those movies that use to come on cable at like 1am on a tuesday lol. this is such a great movie. i always hoped that with viggo's popularity, this movie would get rediscovered. its always been my dream to curate a movie fest/screening with movies that were forgotten by time; reflecting skin, parents, out of the blue, hal hartley's first 2 films (trust & unbelievable truth), etc etc
sucramnipp 2 years ago
What a sad movie! its a must see and it really is a shame that more people haven't seen this great film.
bloodbledblack 2 years ago
It is sad isn't it.
Hopefully more will find it here, it really is a rare film these days.
Chastrie 2 years ago