World Team Cup: Ryu Seung Min-Kaii Yoshida

[sdnet12]

Great MAtch

[Atif1811981]

The loser disliked this video :P

[ChefVonAllem]

5:45 - 6:04 siiiiiiiiic 

[hkjkdsifu]

@ChefVonAllem Amazing stuff!

[lesckh]

two shit penhold styles

[lovettvm]

吉田さんすげー

[Kwonghun]

Oh man... I love those Japanese Shirts and Shorts :D I want some... :P

[strikewzen]

the myth of RPB, so far only wang hao and ma lin can do it on world stage, and ma lin doesn't use it all the time.

took wang hao many years to perfect, i wonder how many who claim to be able to do this can actually pull it off, without a coach just by watching youtube.

find a player on youtube that can do this far away from the table who isn't on chinese national team please

[dorakuma901]

吉田のサーブが訴シンのサーブと似てる

[ivanlimtickhuat]

Korea still the best in the world in penhold.....

[ansonyeung825]

both of them play well

[BicolBandit]

Wow. What a rare matchup these days. Great match.

[jSlipkNoTj]

Yoshida never gave up! RESPECT

[freakkit]

Ryu looking wonderful in this tournament...just like the old days!

[ArtWing8]

two JPenholders playing together, uau, with 14 years old i ever seen that before

[lightmobile]

pretty heinous. favorited!

[rvsd44]

great match!! korea vs japan penholders.

[mattranayo]

6:36 the bawse look

[bobbyP009R]

F**king  EPIC!!!

[bobbyP009R]

gotta see this point 05:44 press here 05:44 05:44 05:44

[IIkingdomII]

it's like the battle of the gimps

[01TheViewer]

traditional penholder vs traditional penholder

AWESOME!!!

[bitpond1974]

Great match!

But I think they will be the last two remaining traditional penhold players in the world.

[Bollinger1984]

OMG what a match :D

[Chinesekage]

6:35

ryu seung min: was that a ma lin?

[DimaKats2]

The game is amazing and this kind of players make it so interesting and exciting, but I think they can't beat any of the top ten players

[GuiMXC]

Thats the real penholders fight!!

[ttbestable]

Beautiful match

[frickenbaba]

Yoshida's clap of acknowledgement after the great point won by Ryu (starting from 5:45) was awesome!

[frickenbaba]

It's sad, but I have no doubt these 2 will get pwned by anyone with a proper defence. You simply can't play penhold grip without reverse backhand and expect to compete at the top level. There's a reason why Oh Sang Eun won so easily against Yoshida.

[fritzi0]

Respect to Kaii for playing THAT great after getting crushed by Oh.

[alead1]

omg what a mathch! what a match!!

[simpanz]

great effort from yoshida considering the fact that he was demolished by Oh in the earlier match...

[EdMajinLee199999]

Great stylistic match up!

[plot000000]

nothing like a good old fashioned j-pen battle. forehand dominance is always incredible to watch. honestly, the rpb is getting kind of boring. is it better? probably. is it as entertaining? no

[simpanz]

@plot000000 speak for yourself. I get never tired or bored watching wang hao's insane rpb.

[plot000000]

@simpanz rpb is just practical, especially in wang hao's case. he just gets the job done. it's not that flashy compared to someone like xu xin or ma lin when they start doing the rpb corkscrew loops. i find j-pen backhand more entertaining simply because it's so unnatural, so to be able to get off a solid shot is pretty cool

[simpanz]

@plot000000 that was my sole point: _you_ find it more entertaining whereas somebody else doesn't...

[threefifteeny]

but i guess Ryu's state is better than Ma Lin's right now..

[animatorcharles]

they are both so good!!!

[smart0money]

A good fight between a Jap penholder Ryu and a one-side Chinese penholder Yoshida! However, they have no fight with a Chinese penholder with reverse penhold backhand (RPB) such as Wang Hao, Ma Lin, and Xu Xin.♦

[gsofficial]

@smart0money except that Ryu Seung Min beat a chinese penholder with RPB in the Olympic Gold Medal match. People need to stop with this ridiculously close-minded jingoistic Chinese pride on these youtube videos, and other Chinese people need to stop upvoting them.

[smart0money]

@gsofficial Once a Olympics champion in 2004, Ryu Seung Min’s performance has deteriorated so much that he is hardly recognizable when he plays against RPB perfectionist Wang Hao, Maestro Ma Lin and Chinese TT Prince Xu Xin, not to mention he is no match against Chinese TT King Ma Long and the new WTTC champion Zheng Jike. You need to stop living in the past! The 21st century belongs to China!♦

[JapaneseEatShit]

@hegemonic1031 FUCK OFF, YOU JAP MOTHER FUCKING CUNT AND GO SUCK YOUR PUNY LITTLE HOMOSEXUAL COCK AND STOP DISSING VIDEOS ON YOUTUBE. by the way, it's not illegal to put your opinion here, but it is to spam a video and being a no life dog sitting at home and wasting of your parents' money. go get a fucking job and make yourself uselful u useless trolling mother fucker. LOL

[MrPoorplay]

I don't know what to say OMG

[jluzwick]

You can see why Wang Hao has practiced and trained his reverse backhand. These players were relying heavily on their forehand loops and smashes and because of this, didn't cover a large portion of the table.  I realize this is common tactic if you go penholder but this type of match really shows you the difference between the players.

[MrPoorplay]

@jluzwick I think there are certainly a lot of differences in playstyle if you compare Wang Hao (a chinese penholder with rubber on both sides of the racket) and these Jpenholders (with rubber on the forehand side only).

[jamesjyu]

@jluzwick it comes down to a choice of style. What Ryu gives up in his backhand, he gains in his forehand. Forehand to forehand at his peak, there really is no comparison. Of course, he hasn't been as consistent in the past few years.

[jluzwick]

@jamesjyu Oh yes I won't dispute that. Their style seems so dependent on excellent footwork to get their powerful forehand in. Certainly this style is extremely powerful and these players are excellent, I just can't get over the fact that a large portion of the table isn't being covered due to the over dependence on forehand.

[Pengkui]

@jluzwick Ma Lin, Xu Xin, Ryu Seung Min, and most Asian penholders adopt the traditional penhold styles. Their major weapon is the step-around forehand attack (especially the 3rd-ball attack), leaving their wide forehand very vulnerable. Although reverse penhold backhand is used by many Chinese penholders, its lack of spin and power (for the driving force of RPB comes primarily from one's wrist and thumb alone) makes it too impotent to be an offensive skill.

[DaKrazedKyubizt]

@Pengkui lack of spin and power? are you kidding? RPB often has more spin that most SH backhands.

[Pengkui]

@DaKrazedKyubizt I am an ameteur. But I started playing PingPong since I was a kid, and I am pretty proficient in both shakehand and penhold. My own exprience was: I practiced RPB a lot, but I could never produce RPB loops as powerful and consistent as my shakehand backhand loops.

[karlospkc89]

@Pengkui all you are saying is you cannot produce RPB loop as powerful and consistent as your shakeland loop. Dude, that is YOUR problem. 

[DaKrazedKyubizt]

@Pengkui Hey, my SH backhands aren't as good as my RPB backhands, and they have less spin and less power. Does that make RPB better? Not necessarily. It means I'm not familiar with proper SH backhand technique. You're probably not as familiar as you think with RPB.

[Pengkui]

@DaKrazedKyubizt BTW, rumors said that Wang Hao had a different skeleton on his foreharm and wrist than our human beings. He can use his fingers to reach the same arm. Can you? ;)

[tanxu]

U serious? I never heard that before



[DaKrazedKyubizt]

@Pengkui .... surprisingly, yes.

[IIkingdomII]

@DaKrazedKyubizt more spin less power. that is the weakness. also, bigger dead spot and worse backhand blocking

[DaKrazedKyubizt]

@IIkingdomII I would disagree with that. I've gotten plenty of power out of RPB. Are you sure you're not just doing it wrong?

[IIkingdomII]

@DaKrazedKyubizt compared to penhold, RPB has more spin but less power on both forehand and backhand. players use custom paddles to compensate for this, but after speed glue was banned, a lot of the top penhold players like ryu and ma lin have trouble with it.

[DaKrazedKyubizt]

@IIkingdomII That's definitely not entirely true. First of all, Ryu doesn't use RPB. I'm sure there are times when it looks like, but I guarantee you that he doesn't use RPB. Did you mean he has trouble AGAINST it?

And that's not a compensation for Ma Lin. He just chooses to have a really fast RPB by using Bryce Speed. A lot of BHs would be really fast with Bryce Speed.

Wait, RPB gives less power on BOTH FH AND BH?? Are you serious? You must be trolling. Have you ever taken a physics class?

[broro100]

@DaKrazedKyubizt no, actually, i've played SH offensive defensive and pehold offensive,yes i disagree that RPB lacks power and spin but SH backhands CAN have more spin on BH topspin just not the side spin screw. the RPB was originally made for counter hitting, something the traditional penhold backhand lacks. but it's not designed for spinny grazing loops.

[DaKrazedKyubizt]

@broro100 I still find that hard to believe simply because the only real factor should be the range of wrist motion. Being able to start the stroke with the wrist more coiled up, the hand has a bit of extra time to accelerate before hitting the ball.

Also, the distance from the top edge of the racket to the wrist is about the same for SH and RPB. The radial factor of torque should be nearly equivalent. Therefore, RPB looping spin should be similar or better to SH, depending on wrist strength.

[broro100]

@DaKrazedKyubizt the thing is, that coiling wrist motion only applies well with the side spin screws. also after coiling the wrist, the highest acceleration point is when your racket is parallel to the horizon, this does not apply with RPB topspin, it's made for counter hitting and counter looping. in addition consider the distance of contact from pivot, the distance is longer in SH which means it creates more force. and finally RPB isn't for grazing loops, all these things i refer to my experie

[DaKrazedKyubizt]

@broro100 When I said it was about the same distance from the pivot, I meant it. I literally got out my blades and checked it. It's literally the same, even though it doesn't look like it.

Also, just because it's "made for counter hitting and counter looping" doesn't mean you can do those grazing loops. And what you mean by "grazing loops"? Do you mean slow loops or fast, brush loops? I do both of those those all the time with RPB. Are you sure you weren't just doing them wrong?

[DaKrazedKyubizt]

@broro100 And I'm pretty sure the highest acceleration point still applies. For what reason would it not?

[broro100]

@DaKrazedKyubizt at contact in RPB topspin, the racket points downwards, therefore the racket's position won't be parallel to the horizon. the reason for the racket to point downwards is the wrist. if you hold a Cpen properly, try not bending you wrist and position your forearm to make it parallel to the horizon. you will notice that the racket will be pointing downwards 45 deg, wang hao also points his racket downwards as well, only ma lin will have his racket parallel to horizon when blocking.

[DaKrazedKyubizt]

@broro100 .... Okaayyy... but that's what the wrist is there for : to keep the blade straight when you need it to be straight. If you're not in the habit of keeping your blade straight, that's your fault. You're almost trying to argue that all of Wang Hao's BH shots are hooked slightly because of the grip.

He can hook it whenever he damn well wants to. He's Wang Hao.

So I'm not seeing your point here. You're arguing things that are quite adjustable.

[broro100]

@DaKrazedKyubizt if you look closely ma lin's rpb is more traditional than wang hao's, ma lin's rpb is pretty much demonstrates what rpb is used for in the first place. he mostly block, punch, counter hit, and sometimes he would counter loop. wang hao's and xu xin's rpb are more modern, they can actually loop with rpb but with slightly hooked grips, however their wrists are straight. keeping the blade straight wouldn't produce a lot of spin in rpb, it would be like ma lin's traditional rpb.

[DaKrazedKyubizt]

@broro100 Again, I really don't think you know enough about what you're trying to argue.

But I give up at this point. I'm tired of replying.

[broro100]

@DaKrazedKyubizt before estimating my knowledge on table tennis, i'd want to ask you if you've ever play at pre national level? have you played for over 7 years? have you ever win national members? if you haven't yet done so, then do not say i have got low level knowledge on table tennis. i have got COACHED in RPB and im in asia so my knowledge on RPB would've been closer to the primary source to yours. i've seen so many euro players who messed u p Cpen strokes dont even get me started.

[DaKrazedKyubizt]

@Pengkui Also, did you notice that the top Chinese players ALL PRIMARILY USE THEIR WRIST AND THUMB FOR BACKHAND? When they're far from the table, they'll use their arm if they want an extra bit of power and slightly less spin, or just their wrist if they want a normal but still nice and powerful loop.

With Chinese-style looping, it's the speed of the racket that generates the power, which is why you get so much extra spin with Chinese-style looping. (That last statement goes for FH and BH.)

[Pengkui]

@jluzwick In many cases, Xu Xin and Ma Lin still prefer their backhand blocking over RPB for the sake of the consistency and the reaction time. Wang Hao, a penholder master playing "more shakehand" than shakehander, is probably the only exception in the world.

[worapongable]

Good game both player