The state isn't a safety net it damages production when wealth is stolen through it and the process always cascades out of control until the state has destroyed itself. The state is a virus. Like you said people can't comprehend large populations our minds are only so large tax dollars are just numbers to politicians and they keep taking until the point of no return has long been crossed and the system starts crumbling down. Maybe in the early 80's we could have saved America way too late now.
@lovingsingleton Not really. Much of it was a reaction to the subjective philosophy that emerged form this era. Rand based many of her views on Aristotlean metaphysics.
Human Altruism doesn't exist. No "altruistic" human is that way because he/she is only altruistic for selfish reasons. It makes one "feel good" or something. Or for show. I'll take enlightened self interest any day.
I always compared altruism to idealism....its not really objective, its just touching the surface of situations and calling it "kind". People "adopting" an African child through useless organisations, are convinced that they are making a difference - they are simply feeding their ego and their conscience to feel good while at the same time it can be argued that this action is detrimental to the people they are "helping" because it makes them completely dependent.
@panostsak And on this case I believe that it is the religious right (or the right in general) that makes such a big deal out of this, and not the left - most leftists don't believe in individualistic help or generic volunteering. On the other hand, we have billionaires who made their money through disgusting means being called "philanthropists" because they throw some bread crumbs at the poor.
@panostsak Pathological altruism is caused by religion AND Socialism, which I say in the vid. Threre is no side less guilty of this. The key here is to step out of the paradigm and behave objectively about what can be achieved. Marxism fundamentally failed because when push comes to shove it could not generate productivty as a collective. Who's needs come first? Who decides and on what basis? This is always exploited. The most able are then worked to death - exactly what happened in the USSR.
@RockingMrE - Agreed, my sentiments exactly. The famous Marx slogan: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" demonstrated the depth of this falacious thinking. Who will be the one to determine one's ability and another's need? Stalin? What bureaucratic system run by corruptible humans might deliver so fairly?
Altruism isn't something that's going to be generally accepted...you're going to find extremisms. There's going to be one who believes everyone should be altruistic and strives to make laws incurring thusly. There's going to be those who are so, inherently, altruistic...they'll murder themselves helping others. Altruism would work if everyone was willing to do so...but there's always some sociopathic narcist shouting 'Gimme!' which ruins the attempt, forcing people to have to protect themselves.
@mdlittle5466 You perfectly defined exactly what is wrong with socialism! Who gets to decide who's needs? And then to top it off when the resources and money run dry then it becomes an inhumahne cestpit of desperation, where the ones with the least integrity cheat the system with a begging bowl, while others give up trying because they get nothing for their efforts. It tends to go down pretty quickly from there into the depravity of totalitarianism.
@mdlittle5466 "Altruism would work if everyone was willing to do so...but there's always some sociopathic narcist shouting 'Gimme!' which ruins the attempt, forcing people to have to protect themselves."
Precisely. It's impossibly idealistic to expect ALL people to be altruistic to the extent that they do not consider their own needs as a precedent. Only a brainwashed fool full of guilt would sacrifice themselves so willingly.
I'm not sure what you're saying near the end - so what is you position in regards to a social "safety net" as you describe it. To quote from Jesus Christ Superstar, I'm hearing: "Surely you're not saying we have the resources to save the poor from their lot? There will be poor always, pathetically struggling, look at the good things you've got!" So we ignor the convalescent and elderly, who have no hope of ever regaining self-reliance, but continue to deteriorate - burdening state coffers?
@rjworks13 I'll have to go into my views of the safety net in the future. But needless to say I am economically very Classically Liberal, so I am not exactly into the welfare state.
@RockingMrE - Right, well you know... I hear what you're saying - it's just that the perfect utopian world I've constructed in my own mind, allows room for those whom fate truly dealt a rotten hand. I belive any advanced sentient species would take care of their worse off. Hell, even dogs have been observed caring for their own. I would hope we can do a bit better than dogs. Then again, maybe not.
@rjworks13 I think people CAN help one another in times of needs. But you don't do this through theft. No matter how noble your cause this is not the way. What more once you go down this road of unethical conduct it will result in the infection of human spirit. Charity is the only way to help the needy. If they cannot help themsevles then there is nothing else that they can ask for but the good grace of people, which is forthcoming when immorality is not at the core of society through coercion.
What is strange is how the European left are altruistic , but only to those that are most unlike them naturally (non Europeans), and are in fact very misanthropic to their natural 'in group', which they often reject like it's an act of rebellion. It's a suicidal mechanism.
@DeltaNordicAdvance There are many contradictions regarding the leftist mentality to hate the strong and love anyone or anything that perpetuates the victim mentality of the liberal agenda. This mindset is pervasive in the US as well.
Division of labour, heterogeneous nature and the human ability to recognise the advantages of division of labour are the reasons there is civilization, or what we call a "society".
@WeighUpJudge Footnote: I think the scriptwriter was paraphrasing Stalin: "The death one person is a tragedy. The death of a thousand people is a statistic."
@mike61524334251 No, there is credence in your views because Obama exploits this sacrificial mentality that collectivists abuse for their false benevolence.
I'm not a republican, but man I have heard enough of President Obama kept mentioning compromise. It's just the same all over again in politics, here he's talking but not doing anything about this mess, I bet it's the same in UK too.
@barboakley Thank you very much for the compliment. It means a lot given that you are a major contributor to this subject. I'm glad you enjoyed the video.
@siggyboss If you're refering to the underclass, that doesn't work and expects entitlement, it is a problem. It exasperates the poverty trap and it becomes harder to reduce this situation as it is normalised. People grow to "expect" something from the state - and of course the state has nothing without taking from somewhere else. But most of all codependency, talked about in this video, harms self-reliance, sometimes making people lazy, other times lowering self-confidence.
Google: Martha Laura Granados Immigration Prostitute
The VAWA Immigration Loop-hole:
If you are a woman, pretend to be in love with a US citizen / Legal Resident, deceive him to marry you. As soon as you got the marriage certificate dial 211 and falsely accuse him of Domestic Violence and Rape and move to a VAWA shelter.
You will be on a fast-track for a Green-Card and US citizenship - all expenses paid for by the US tax payer and as a bonus you will be getting full social benefits.
Word, big buddy, word. It's wild -- but probably not a surprise when I really think about it -- how the closer we get to talking about what's REALLY wrong with us (that is to say: "our culturally-blinded/limited understanding of the world, the imperfections of which get us intro real-life trouble")... the more courage it takes.
We can rant about Coke vs. Pepsi, Steelers vs. Cowboys, brunettes vs. redheads, all day long and never offend anyone!
@craigrmeyer sad isn't it how many people get all worked up on these other discussions and the real questions like these get completely ignored? Worse yet they get devalued and treated like it is unpatriotic or dare I say "evil" to even bring up questions like this. I really dislike the fact that when I speak out against things like this people immediately respond with something like, "Oh you just want them to starve in the streets" as if thats our only option.
I suppose just about every culture has "illegal" subjects of conversation/criticism, and I'm willing to guess that those are the exact subjects that do them in.
This is why I love America, BTW. We're ALLOWED to talk about more than nearly anyone. Even Ann Coulter talks about exactly this -- women voting for Big Government out of their infinite hunger for security -- on TV, and she's famous. (I also recall resenting her... but here I am anyway!)
cont from below: no one else is affected, it isn't selfish or unselfish. it is neutral. some things just aren't realistically moral issues and only extremists try 2 make neutral subjects moral issues. most morality is subjective 2 the objective definition and needs 2 b taken on a case by case basis with a bit of decent sense ( i say decent and not common because decent sense isn't common any more, as u sometimes demonstrate)
@cruelbusiness1984 I have a nagging feeling I'm being strawmanned here. If course there are neutral moral issues, though the piano explanation oversimplifies this. In this vid I'm talking about altruism being abused in society. If you want to know about my moral compass then check out my video "Principles for Living". But either way there ARE moral principles that people should adhere to that allow for flexibility and individual rights, like the non-aggression principle.
@RockingMrE Please correct me if what I said above to cruelbusiness1984 was incorrect. I again like your points because while I agree with you philosophically for the most part the angle you consider these issues from differs from mine and it always gives me food for thought. Great video ^_^ I have been fascinated by the selfishness and altruism ever since I read "The Virtue of Selfishness". Amazing out declared ideals can be warped by a little public spending!
@ToiletBomb You accurately interpreted my views ;-)
It's not that being kind is pointless, it's just that sometimes we need to step back and realise that we can't force people to be altruistic in the name of some false ideal like the greater good. This sort of mentality is where the sliding scale to totalitarianism begins, and can also be counterproductive to the aim of "helping people".
@RockingMrE Yes, I agree. As we've seen now in the UK as well as the US as shining examples of the welfare state. I am sickened every day by the cycle of poverty created for people contrasted to the people who do actually need a leg up right now and cannot get it. This black and white system of welfare is not working and eventually it will cause "the poor" the most harm. The first people left out to dry are going to be the ones that can't do anything about it.
@cruelbusiness1984 I know MrE doesn't need me defending him but, I do think you are misunderstanding his point. From my understanding of what he said he was saying that people have defined the greater as this excessive altruism. I don't think he was mis-using his words here at all. Rightly so, he is pointing out that through "helping" certain people they are being hurt. This "altruism" is actually not helping them (as it is supposed to) and accomplishing the opposite, which is why its a problem
i think most of ur definitions r off by what most people would consider things like liberal, altruism, and selfishness. 2 b liberal doesn't mean the greater good above all else, u need 2 seriously consider the truth of what u believe if u aren't one. altruism simply means 2 give without getting much, not necessarily nothing, out of it. selfishness means getting surplus at another's expense, or 2 the negative effect of someone else. if i enjoy playing the piano, i play it and no one else is affe-
My eyes were opened QUITE wide when I learned how government spending, as a % of GDP, only started to significantly grow when women were allowed to vote.
Google for "Did Women’s Suffrage Change the Size and Scope of Government?" Just start with the executive summary. You may never be able to "go back".
"...World War I was the first war after which per capita government expenditures did not return to their prewar levels..."
Alturism is not a concept that can be applied to "Christianity", that would be ignorant. Failing to understand why is due by interpreting Christianity through a dark veil.
Ones viewpoint depends upon ones dogmatic indoctrination, as with authoritarian "Christianity" - Roman Catholic, Jehowa's witnessess, and sects - there's very little room for critique. The same goes for all who aren't thoroughly educated in what spiritual love really means, as when Christ tells to love our enemies.
@RockingMrE Altruism is selfless caring for others, yes, but in a deeper sense of the word love, as it stretches to the spiritual realm and the everlasting life. This is not irrational in that sense, since the bulk of humanity look no further than this life, and the reward of something before dying. Irrational in this world's spirit of thinking is doing it for an unselfish purpose. But to care for others without thought of reward, and intently glorifying the Creator, is stretching beyond.
@RockingMrE Doing things out of spiritual love, for what God did through Christ, giving his life so that we might be certain that we have eternal life through God's redemption, that is stretching a bit further, it has a source and purpose. (Chr. is opposite to religion - even though some denominations have shaped Christianity into a religion, as with Catholic C (that's why reformators protested, one, Hussites, was burned by the Roman CC, the one before Luther (both started as Catholic priests).
Whenver altruism is doing something for another person's "own good" without taking into consideration what the other person wants or needs, it can become abusive. On a collective level, one should look at Boulder Colorado. Liberal altruism taken to the extreme where one can't build a six foot privacy fence because it would "Block the view" of the mountains. Also find a jaded cynic, and you are more then likely going to find a disillusioned atruistic idealist.
To me, what you're describing in a lot of the examples sounds like altruism without wisdom. A wise altruist does not help someone in a manner that will create (co)dependency, knowing that it is better (more beneficial to the other) to perhaps practice a tougher form of love in a given situation.
Likewise, a wise altruist is unlikely to believe that human suffering can be reduced through suicide bombing
Idiotic altruism is easy to abuse, but that goes for any 'virtue'.
@churchofstfu I agree that idiotic altruism is a valid argument. But regarding the rest of the vid is it wise altruism to take from one hard working group to give to another? The state has no money of its own, and thus must do this for an altruistic idea like the "greater good". Giving people something without them earning it, regarldess of the circumstances, has serious implications on codependeny - aka welfare.
@RockingMrE First off, I assume we would have very different definitions of how one would 'earn' something, and whether certain things should be positive rights, but that's a longer discussion.
I would disagree that helping people even though they haven't "earned" it necessarily fosters co-dependency. A somewhat simplistic example (that yet still helps dispute the 'regardless' qualification): If one helps a drowning child, that is "unearned" help on the part of the child.
@RockingMrE For a somewhat less abstract example, being altruistic by providing job training and opportunities at cost to one's own wallet, providing various rehabilitation services to drug users, and providing temporary housing and essential healthcare to people who've lost their homes so they don't descend into a cycle of un-employability and misery (it gets hard to get hired once you lose a few front teeth, for example) is a way *out* of dependency on others.
@churchofstfu You can't give someone something if you expect to do it via taxation. This leads to a greater good fallacy where it is moral to do an immoral act if it helps another. The child example indicates altruism in nature, though I would argue that a person risking their life to save another puts the ones they love at risk - if the person dies in the process they will cause misery to those they care, or even a loss of familial income. Consider firefighters as an example of this too.
@RockingMrE First off, I don't think that the "greater good fallacy" is a fallacy in any formal sense. In some schools of Utilitarian thought, (and consequentialist thought generally) it would be considered ethically good (moral) to do something that achieves greater overall gain, even if under other circumstances that same act would be ethically wrong.
Second, whether taxation is immoral also depends on your ethical views on the matter, it's certainly not a given.
@churchofstfu I could summarise your comment here thusly: It's immoral to use force to attain ANY objective whatsoever. You can't justify an immoral action with a moral one - and anyone that disagrees does not truly respect individual liberty, the very foundation of freedom. There is no basis for any discussion unless this is first established - nothing can be built without this principle at its core, because without this it all leads to different shades of totalitatianism.
@RockingMrE One more thing: it is not immoral to use force to physically defend yourself when under attack, though this must be relative to the force being used. So chopping someone's head off with an axe is not relative to a punch in the face. Ultimately it is the INITIATION of force that is NEVER morally justified.
@RockingMrE Just wanted to add that the firefighter is an example given that they have to take calculated risks, as opposed to completely altruistic ones that put their lives at risk. This could cause misery to the family and friends of the firefighter if killed by a foolishly altruistic act in the line of duty.
@churchofstfu Exactly, the problem is most governmental altruism and the welfare state has systematically destroyed the ability of most of those under its care to change their circumstances. It isn't helping them "out" of their situation and is in fact encouraging the situation to continue. Enforcing altruism in my opinion is exactly what leads to these types of situations. There is no blanket fix and like you said, sometimes "tougher love" is going to be a more beneficial answer.
Rocking Mr. E, "Altruism" is never going to go TOO far, IF you are the Last Man Standing. However, it does seem to impact "polite society", which are farcical in man-made "nature"...nobody wants to play with a serious altruistic "Individual", they want to play at playing, as long as the safety net and the benefits of whatever version of "society" is currently running, will catch them so they can lock the door and keep the "Individuals" at bay. Close the gates, it's them kooky barbarians again!
I agree with you on altruism. It's an emergent concept that comes from the act(s) of selfishness. Given this is the case, the idea of central altruism is quite disturbing.
Great video; got me to finally subscribe to you. You can see pathological altruism here on YouTube where some people have no sense of proportion. An example would be the many who, while intelligent in some regards, would suggest that another person kill themselves for the "greater good" only because of some beliefs that people have. This is a unsympathetic response to a lack of empathy and only serves the condemning person's self satisfaction and not the "greater good" they claim to speak for.
What most of these statists don't realize is that collectivism in practice and in theory is a stateless concept. Of course with the word games most of them play, they use "the state" to describe "society", so they then say if you are against the state, taxation, centralism etc... you are against "society". They are wannabe socialists who have no idea with socialism is about. And they think the Tea Party is misunderstood on the topic!
Altruism is actually something I am not that familiar with though I have heard it mentioned at cocktail parties and, I think, church. As something someone does on their own I suppose it's fine in small does. Now as tool for manipulating individuals or societies it produces mixed results. N. Korea wonders! The US - fat chance!
One of the first things I thought as I listened that it can lead to co-dependency.
Usually on religious things I get called ' heretic' but the term 'evil' does come up : )
@RockingMrE The appeal to altruism is kind of a mixed bag as far a social engineering tool. It tends to work in certain situations like at the beginning of a regime change, during a war, or when there is threat of war. It tends to play out fairly quickly especially when people start noticing the people wanting them engage in altruistic behavior have put on some weight & have nicer clothes than they do. N. Korea having the Olympics will be an interesting test for them using that particular tool.
I wonder if altruism is a result of the handicap principle? You'd be surprised how many behaviors are actually misapplied mating strategies. In this case altruism signals to the opposite sex that you are so comfortable you can afford to sacrifice some of your wealth for others' benefit.
Caring for and doing what is best for this planet has nothing to do with altruism, its just basic survival of our species... I don't know who'se quote this is but: "We are not the owners of this planet and its recources, we are just borrowing it from the next generation" Also, if people truely worked together (and used the BEST methods in all aspects of life instead of the MOST PROFITABLE), the qualitiy of life would improve for all people, again not altruistic, just realistic..
@wederwoord What you are describing is the natural inclination for humans to coopoerate for the benefit of all. This is actually quite selfish when you consider the individual benefit, though many claim that this is altruism. But it goes too far when you force people to adhere to the collective. If it isn't voluntary it isn't moral. It's really as simple as that.
@PinkProgram why does your side make up claims as to what is said and then expect those false claims to be answered, but you never answer the fucking questions! How does my comment differ from your comment? Lets have an answer!
The first time I've watched one of your new videos which isn't about a subject I haven't been researching personally in the same time frame. Combo breaker! Also, a great video. I feel that the natural order creates collectivism, in that we all independently work towards common aims. When this is forced by a few nutters in a parliament it never quite works.
I've come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as altruism. it's just individuals acting in self-interest to appease their subjective value systems in their own brain.
It would give someone peace of mind being nice to someone they like.
I sometimes try helping people without there being any benefit for myself in it. It seems to shock people and they often look at me like I've lost my marbles. ^_^ I wonder what triggers that response.
@PinkProgram Yes you are absolutely right. Id like you to give your life up for others, but that is a very different thing to what MrE is talking about-he's refering to Pathological altruism, I suspect where its all false and is spoken about in a way in which socialists pretend to be for other people! Like being a pathological liar.Tell me if you look at the comment I made and the comment you left me on UjimJams how are they different and why do you think you have the moral highground=P altruism
@apekillssnake I literally don't have a life. I actually am part of a neural hive mind and I always have to pay attention to what would be best for my Host and siblings or we'd all die. If you monkeys actually worked together instead of acting like greedy little animals your species could go much farther. You divide yourselves up by race, country and gender but you are all the same species -__- what is the point of not helping each other survive? Humans are social primates right?
@apekillssnake I literally don't have a life. I actually am part of a neural hive mind and I always have to pay attention to what would be best for my Host and siblings or we'd all die. If you monkeys actually worked together instead of acting like greedy little animals your species could go much farther. You divide yourselves up by race, country and gender but you are all the same species -__- what is the point of not helping each other survive? Humans are social primates right?
@PinkProgram I guess she saw my profile as a "prosocial avatar", doesn't know what it means, is guessing to think she is superior-is making a hash of it, but is going for the misrepresentation of ideas like the otherside always do! Its good to know from reading this that she thinks she's the sane one! This is what they do, all the time..what a fascinating psychological study into the mechanism which cause this and why!She's superior to you as well MrE mocking you for providing a Statist metaphor
@apekillssnake Well of course I'm designed to be superior to a monkey :3 and I'm quite sane for a self professed neurological disorder. You don't seem too interested in helping your fellow humans for a "prosocial avatar". You can call yourself whatever you want but your behavior is what it is. Here I am trying to end world hunger, eliminate the petrol dependence, and usher in a new paradigm of technology while you are busy trolling :3 Who is superior to whom ^_^
@PinkProgram That's nice sweetheart, you are in here like a little girl licking her lolly and not really aware of what is going on around her, aren't you! Do you want to say something else..!
@apekillssnake nice projection there :3 perhaps your statement would hold more weight if you actually had any content on your page. I've actually been helping with the integration of technology with biology. You've made it quite clear that you are just a whiny little monkey with nothing to show for your life. I have no arms or legs of my own and I'm still more useful than you ^_^ Go back and suck on your phallic fruit of choice. I hear monkeys enjoy bananas ;3
Look at what the warlords in Africa do with all the aid sent there (to say nothing of it undermining local autonomy).
Look at the Native American reservations. They don't have to do anything, yet Because of that, they have some of the highest suicide, unemployment and drug usage rates on the planet.
Self determinism and personal responsibility is best.
Great vid, though I think there may be a difference between actual altruism & that which is marketed in a way to suggest it is altruistic when its real motives are anything but... The obvious example is the purposeful use of benefits to keep British working lass people in indolent semi-comfort to justify continued mass immigration – the real pernicious purpose of which is to socially engineer demographic change.
Your videos always challenge my thinking, also I learn new words. (I'm from Finland.) It's great that you explain things as you go along. You make good arguments in this video. I used to think we need a social security system by the state, but now I believe in friends just helping each other out. It's painful but true that it is easy to become dependent upon social security money. I've seen it happen. "Why work when you can just do nothing and get paid more than if working?" Not very motivating.
@Paperilintu Finland - that's one country that would be really hard to live in if you don't adhere to the collective Socialist mentality, that's for sure. Good to see that you are part of the mould breaking out of it though, especially given your regional issues you are faced with.
@fructoric All I would add to your words here is that if we do not elevate individual rights over the collective then it all leads to one place: tyranny. The sooner peoeple realise this the better.
@RockingMrE Then if you oppose tyranny (giving a group priority over an individual) can we use a different word instead of collectivism more clearly describe the welfare that results from defense of individual rights?
@fructoric Collectivism is a valid term, though I repeatedly acknowledge the difference between voluntary collectivism and other types; like Socialism, Democracy, or statism.
I feel like your insistence to use the word is disregarding the social nature of language and the very first definition in my dictionary. You can use it however you want but it might indirectly work against you.
I could never understand personal responsibility when it came to economic measures especially health concerns, how do you know when you are well enough to role the dice with your life ?
It always struck me that there was something wrong with the idea that the sicker you are the less responsable you are and therefore it's your fault for being less productive and not securing your own healthcare instead of 'expecting' others to carry your burden.
It feels like a darwinian concept of authoritarian social culture because if you don't 'carry your load' it's your fault and they should just 'let them die'.
You've heard that floating around youtube haven't you ?
@Curas1 Yeah. What I would ask you is do you think it is legitimate to take, or even steal money from one group to give to another for some "greater good"? If your answer is yes the the sooner people realise that this will never give you what you yearn the better. It might be hard to accept but no matter what we do there will always be those that suffer, and the most we can do is nurture charity, a free market, stable family life, and voluntary communities.
As a individualist like yourself I too loathe the statist aspect of the economic progressive views I've come to support, however as a futurist I understand scarcity and in ways that not many progressives or conservatives in economics do.
But I agree there will always be those that suffer but deregulated markets, cultural uniformity, privatized assistance and perhaps Voluntaryism (humm stateless society huh) are just going to fall apart.
@Curas1 There will always be those that suffer NO MATTER WHAT the system, so turning this around onto a free market is misdirection. Historically we know that statism always leads to coercion and theft, but people repeat the same fallacies over and over - the definition of insanity. Forcing people to comply to collectivism is illegitimate, even for the "greater good". It doesn't matter what your cause is - it's immoral. Those who don't value this are disingenuous, naive, or even exploitative.
f___ing great guitarist .. when i did philosophy so many of my fellow students were natural musicians .. i got up to grade 4 in piano, took me as many years, not a musical bone in my body
a well thought out commentary as usual tho i question your use of 'altruism'
dependancy culture was cynically instituted to leave ppl helpless when the controllers finally pulled the plug b/c at this time they want chaos n poverty as they transition their herd into their long envisioned upgraded statist hell
@RockingMrE you're welcome .. i've fav this one as it's such a concise / densely packed analysis needful of a few plays .. quality thinker, kind regards D
Being ABLE to fend for one's self is important tho. IF people have the means to take care of themselves then they should but if the gov't has shipped all their jobs overseas and killed the economy and they, then, have NO means to care 4 themselves, they NEED the gov't or someone to help them!
@julzabro The government should never have shipped all those jobs abroad in the first place. Don't be too quick to buy into the great globalisation lie. I'll address this in an upcoming vid.
“Altruism” on the part of the state is certainly pathological. All welfare and entitlement programs should be rescinded. So many are brainwashed to believe that the government acts in our best interest. The truth is that all they care about is power! One of the greatest myths is that socialized, state-mandated education serves the best interest of the populace. The truth is that it is a tool in the government’s agenda to subjugate the populace!
@UltraConservative298 Hmmmmm, self-reliance only works when you haven't oppressed an entire people for 300 years. Oh yes that old bugaboo Slavery. While the Government in a effort to correct this societal wrong, uses social programs such as welfare to cause dependency on the State. Meaning Welfare from the start was a poorly constructed Anti-Poverty measure. On that point I agree with you, but that's where it ENDS.
I think what you're calling altruism is not REAL altruism. If an act is meant to increase one's control over the masses or ANY agenda that is not moral, then it's NOT altruistic.
Yeah but is it the codependence or other negative reactions OR the altruistic act itself that makes it "pathological"? "Selling ideas" as in politics is not true altruism....I don't think any politician has ever been altruistic in the truest sense of the word. ;) I think people can be unique AND altruistic at the same time. Interesting.
The do-gooder altruism of liberals who wanted unilateral disarmament in the 1980's to appease CCCP were suicidal, in a sense. Altruism as an impediment to you own survival. Remember their slogan?
"Better red than dead."
Another relevant saying: No good deed goes unpunished.
People resent patronizing generosity and have only ill-will in return for it.
Good points. Altruistic and selfish are vague words that are obstacles to understanding the facts, I think. They are man-made signs and should be dropped while looking at conduct alone to get a clear view, I sense you are one to something when you say pure altruism doesn't exist. It's a bogus concept like perfection with no referent. Better to ask those who use it to describe the facts without it. If they can't, they rely on man-made verbal fictions that confuse their understanding.
My own altruism, generosity, empathy and idealism have essentially done nothing but make me a target for attack and disapproval. I try to be an avatar. It is a tough row to hoe and no matter how humble I am, I seem to be feared for my sharing and good actions. It seems that when you give with no strings, this just totally does not compute with them. I've had to become more aggressive and in their face, refusing to be their doormat, as a result. Probably a good thing. Uprated.
Dude,I think Stalin said that.Anyway,the super tinkerers,the ones who know how all things work will be able to handle things.People that think too much on non-issues are the most dangerous idiots and need to be confronted.
@taxisgay12 I'll add an annotation to my vid so that people don't keep telling me the same thing about Stalin throughout this comments section. Thanks for letting me know :-)
7:58 i thought that Stalin said that! or is that satire?
MrTalktothebear 1 month ago in playlist Deconstructing Leftist Philosophy
@MrTalktothebear Stalin did say that. I put an annotation in to clarify this.
RockingMrE 4 weeks ago
Y'ALL JUST WANNA KICK POOR PEOPLE TO THE KERB!!
Tsicar 1 month ago 3
@Tsicar KERBS WITH NO ROADS!11!!1
DKshad0w 1 month ago
The state isn't a safety net it damages production when wealth is stolen through it and the process always cascades out of control until the state has destroyed itself. The state is a virus. Like you said people can't comprehend large populations our minds are only so large tax dollars are just numbers to politicians and they keep taking until the point of no return has long been crossed and the system starts crumbling down. Maybe in the early 80's we could have saved America way too late now.
Luigi84289 1 month ago
Did objectivism grow out of the ideas of the enlightened era?
lovingsingleton 1 month ago
@lovingsingleton Not really. Much of it was a reaction to the subjective philosophy that emerged form this era. Rand based many of her views on Aristotlean metaphysics.
RockingMrE 1 month ago
enlightened self-interest: I'll do you right because it's good for my repuation and you'll owe me. Enlightened self interest.
VerifiedNews 1 month ago
@VerifiedNews I agree with your comments. Are you a fan of Objectivism by any chance?
RockingMrE 1 month ago
Human Altruism doesn't exist. No "altruistic" human is that way because he/she is only altruistic for selfish reasons. It makes one "feel good" or something. Or for show. I'll take enlightened self interest any day.
VerifiedNews 1 month ago
The only true form of altruism is enlightened self-interest.
VerifiedNews 1 month ago
The last quote you made was originally said by Stalin
ToxaKoldyn 2 months ago in playlist Deconstructing Leftist Philosophy
@ToxaKoldyn Thanks, though I put an annotation into the video to clear that up. Cheers for watching.
RockingMrE 2 months ago
I always compared altruism to idealism....its not really objective, its just touching the surface of situations and calling it "kind". People "adopting" an African child through useless organisations, are convinced that they are making a difference - they are simply feeding their ego and their conscience to feel good while at the same time it can be argued that this action is detrimental to the people they are "helping" because it makes them completely dependent.
panostsak 2 months ago in playlist Deconstructing Leftist Philosophy
@panostsak And on this case I believe that it is the religious right (or the right in general) that makes such a big deal out of this, and not the left - most leftists don't believe in individualistic help or generic volunteering. On the other hand, we have billionaires who made their money through disgusting means being called "philanthropists" because they throw some bread crumbs at the poor.
panostsak 2 months ago in playlist Deconstructing Leftist Philosophy
@panostsak Pathological altruism is caused by religion AND Socialism, which I say in the vid. Threre is no side less guilty of this. The key here is to step out of the paradigm and behave objectively about what can be achieved. Marxism fundamentally failed because when push comes to shove it could not generate productivty as a collective. Who's needs come first? Who decides and on what basis? This is always exploited. The most able are then worked to death - exactly what happened in the USSR.
RockingMrE 2 months ago
@RockingMrE - Agreed, my sentiments exactly. The famous Marx slogan: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" demonstrated the depth of this falacious thinking. Who will be the one to determine one's ability and another's need? Stalin? What bureaucratic system run by corruptible humans might deliver so fairly?
rjworks13 2 months ago
@rjworks13 Completely agree
RockingMrE 1 month ago
Altruism isn't something that's going to be generally accepted...you're going to find extremisms. There's going to be one who believes everyone should be altruistic and strives to make laws incurring thusly. There's going to be those who are so, inherently, altruistic...they'll murder themselves helping others. Altruism would work if everyone was willing to do so...but there's always some sociopathic narcist shouting 'Gimme!' which ruins the attempt, forcing people to have to protect themselves.
mdlittle5466 2 months ago in playlist Deconstructing Leftist Philosophy
@mdlittle5466 You perfectly defined exactly what is wrong with socialism! Who gets to decide who's needs? And then to top it off when the resources and money run dry then it becomes an inhumahne cestpit of desperation, where the ones with the least integrity cheat the system with a begging bowl, while others give up trying because they get nothing for their efforts. It tends to go down pretty quickly from there into the depravity of totalitarianism.
RockingMrE 2 months ago
@mdlittle5466 "Altruism would work if everyone was willing to do so...but there's always some sociopathic narcist shouting 'Gimme!' which ruins the attempt, forcing people to have to protect themselves."
Precisely. It's impossibly idealistic to expect ALL people to be altruistic to the extent that they do not consider their own needs as a precedent. Only a brainwashed fool full of guilt would sacrifice themselves so willingly.
RockingMrE 2 months ago
I'm not sure what you're saying near the end - so what is you position in regards to a social "safety net" as you describe it. To quote from Jesus Christ Superstar, I'm hearing: "Surely you're not saying we have the resources to save the poor from their lot? There will be poor always, pathetically struggling, look at the good things you've got!" So we ignor the convalescent and elderly, who have no hope of ever regaining self-reliance, but continue to deteriorate - burdening state coffers?
rjworks13 2 months ago in playlist Deconstructing Leftist Philosophy
@rjworks13 I'll have to go into my views of the safety net in the future. But needless to say I am economically very Classically Liberal, so I am not exactly into the welfare state.
RockingMrE 2 months ago
@RockingMrE - Right, well you know... I hear what you're saying - it's just that the perfect utopian world I've constructed in my own mind, allows room for those whom fate truly dealt a rotten hand. I belive any advanced sentient species would take care of their worse off. Hell, even dogs have been observed caring for their own. I would hope we can do a bit better than dogs. Then again, maybe not.
rjworks13 2 months ago
@rjworks13 I think people CAN help one another in times of needs. But you don't do this through theft. No matter how noble your cause this is not the way. What more once you go down this road of unethical conduct it will result in the infection of human spirit. Charity is the only way to help the needy. If they cannot help themsevles then there is nothing else that they can ask for but the good grace of people, which is forthcoming when immorality is not at the core of society through coercion.
RockingMrE 2 months ago
Exploitation is probably the worst of these dynamics.
rjworks13 2 months ago in playlist Deconstructing Leftist Philosophy
Is there such a thing as true altruism?
Boredpersons55 4 months ago
@Boredpersons55 I don't think so. The evidence shows we all do things because we can individually benefit, even as a collective.
RockingMrE 4 months ago
What is strange is how the European left are altruistic , but only to those that are most unlike them naturally (non Europeans), and are in fact very misanthropic to their natural 'in group', which they often reject like it's an act of rebellion. It's a suicidal mechanism.
DeltaNordicAdvance 4 months ago
@DeltaNordicAdvance There are many contradictions regarding the leftist mentality to hate the strong and love anyone or anything that perpetuates the victim mentality of the liberal agenda. This mindset is pervasive in the US as well.
RockingMrE 4 months ago
exceptional!
marketanarchist2011 5 months ago
Division of labour, heterogeneous nature and the human ability to recognise the advantages of division of labour are the reasons there is civilization, or what we call a "society".
rumco 5 months ago
great vid, but were being ironic in quoting Marylyn manson? I'm pretty sure he did not come up with this quote
johnas1011 5 months ago
@johnas1011 He didn't come up with the quote. It was Stalin (see my annotation at the end of the vid).
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE Just a note, the in video text annotations do not show up on many mobile devices.
theshillelaghlaw 5 months ago
@theshillelaghlaw Yeah I'm aware. That's life :-P
RockingMrE 5 months ago
Kill a few people, you are a murderer. Kill a million, you are a conquerer...Go figure. Eric Qualen-Cliffhanger
WeighUpJudge 5 months ago 4
@WeighUpJudge Footnote: I think the scriptwriter was paraphrasing Stalin: "The death one person is a tragedy. The death of a thousand people is a statistic."
hairbandfan1967 4 months ago
I hope I'm not missing your point on this video RockingMrE.
mike61524334251 5 months ago
@mike61524334251 No, there is credence in your views because Obama exploits this sacrificial mentality that collectivists abuse for their false benevolence.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
I'm not a republican, but man I have heard enough of President Obama kept mentioning compromise. It's just the same all over again in politics, here he's talking but not doing anything about this mess, I bet it's the same in UK too.
mike61524334251 5 months ago
What a great video! You captured everything I wanted to communicate in Pathological Altruism & Cold-Blooded Kindness, and more. My hat's off to you!
Barb Oakley
barboakley 5 months ago
@barboakley Thank you very much for the compliment. It means a lot given that you are a major contributor to this subject. I'm glad you enjoyed the video.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
I agree with your positions. What's your view on the origin of the concept of the burden of society?
siggyboss 5 months ago
@siggyboss If you're refering to the underclass, that doesn't work and expects entitlement, it is a problem. It exasperates the poverty trap and it becomes harder to reduce this situation as it is normalised. People grow to "expect" something from the state - and of course the state has nothing without taking from somewhere else. But most of all codependency, talked about in this video, harms self-reliance, sometimes making people lazy, other times lowering self-confidence.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE:
The Bible is absolutely correct implyin that for a Civilized Society the following are a Must: "Love your Neighbor..." and "Turn the Other Cheek".
However... there is "Co-Dependency", where a person Destroys him/her -self in ordeder to care for Another... which is counter-productive!
VAWAhorrors 5 months ago
Google: Martha Laura Granados Immigration Prostitute
The VAWA Immigration Loop-hole:
If you are a woman, pretend to be in love with a US citizen / Legal Resident, deceive him to marry you. As soon as you got the marriage certificate dial 211 and falsely accuse him of Domestic Violence and Rape and move to a VAWA shelter.
You will be on a fast-track for a Green-Card and US citizenship - all expenses paid for by the US tax payer and as a bonus you will be getting full social benefits.
VAWAhorrors 5 months ago
@RockingMrE
Word, big buddy, word. It's wild -- but probably not a surprise when I really think about it -- how the closer we get to talking about what's REALLY wrong with us (that is to say: "our culturally-blinded/limited understanding of the world, the imperfections of which get us intro real-life trouble")... the more courage it takes.
We can rant about Coke vs. Pepsi, Steelers vs. Cowboys, brunettes vs. redheads, all day long and never offend anyone!
craigrmeyer 5 months ago
@craigrmeyer sad isn't it how many people get all worked up on these other discussions and the real questions like these get completely ignored? Worse yet they get devalued and treated like it is unpatriotic or dare I say "evil" to even bring up questions like this. I really dislike the fact that when I speak out against things like this people immediately respond with something like, "Oh you just want them to starve in the streets" as if thats our only option.
ToiletBomb 5 months ago
@ToiletBomb Word, buddy. Sad indeed.
I suppose just about every culture has "illegal" subjects of conversation/criticism, and I'm willing to guess that those are the exact subjects that do them in.
This is why I love America, BTW. We're ALLOWED to talk about more than nearly anyone. Even Ann Coulter talks about exactly this -- women voting for Big Government out of their infinite hunger for security -- on TV, and she's famous. (I also recall resenting her... but here I am anyway!)
craigrmeyer 5 months ago
cont from below: no one else is affected, it isn't selfish or unselfish. it is neutral. some things just aren't realistically moral issues and only extremists try 2 make neutral subjects moral issues. most morality is subjective 2 the objective definition and needs 2 b taken on a case by case basis with a bit of decent sense ( i say decent and not common because decent sense isn't common any more, as u sometimes demonstrate)
cruelbusiness1984 5 months ago
@cruelbusiness1984 I have a nagging feeling I'm being strawmanned here. If course there are neutral moral issues, though the piano explanation oversimplifies this. In this vid I'm talking about altruism being abused in society. If you want to know about my moral compass then check out my video "Principles for Living". But either way there ARE moral principles that people should adhere to that allow for flexibility and individual rights, like the non-aggression principle.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE Please correct me if what I said above to cruelbusiness1984 was incorrect. I again like your points because while I agree with you philosophically for the most part the angle you consider these issues from differs from mine and it always gives me food for thought. Great video ^_^ I have been fascinated by the selfishness and altruism ever since I read "The Virtue of Selfishness". Amazing out declared ideals can be warped by a little public spending!
ToiletBomb 5 months ago
@ToiletBomb You accurately interpreted my views ;-)
It's not that being kind is pointless, it's just that sometimes we need to step back and realise that we can't force people to be altruistic in the name of some false ideal like the greater good. This sort of mentality is where the sliding scale to totalitarianism begins, and can also be counterproductive to the aim of "helping people".
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE Yes, I agree. As we've seen now in the UK as well as the US as shining examples of the welfare state. I am sickened every day by the cycle of poverty created for people contrasted to the people who do actually need a leg up right now and cannot get it. This black and white system of welfare is not working and eventually it will cause "the poor" the most harm. The first people left out to dry are going to be the ones that can't do anything about it.
ToiletBomb 5 months ago
@cruelbusiness1984 I know MrE doesn't need me defending him but, I do think you are misunderstanding his point. From my understanding of what he said he was saying that people have defined the greater as this excessive altruism. I don't think he was mis-using his words here at all. Rightly so, he is pointing out that through "helping" certain people they are being hurt. This "altruism" is actually not helping them (as it is supposed to) and accomplishing the opposite, which is why its a problem
ToiletBomb 5 months ago
i think most of ur definitions r off by what most people would consider things like liberal, altruism, and selfishness. 2 b liberal doesn't mean the greater good above all else, u need 2 seriously consider the truth of what u believe if u aren't one. altruism simply means 2 give without getting much, not necessarily nothing, out of it. selfishness means getting surplus at another's expense, or 2 the negative effect of someone else. if i enjoy playing the piano, i play it and no one else is affe-
cruelbusiness1984 5 months ago
so what? Snoreville.
KillTheStranger 5 months ago
My eyes were opened QUITE wide when I learned how government spending, as a % of GDP, only started to significantly grow when women were allowed to vote.
Google for "Did Women’s Suffrage Change the Size and Scope of Government?" Just start with the executive summary. You may never be able to "go back".
"...World War I was the first war after which per capita government expenditures did not return to their prewar levels..."
craigrmeyer 5 months ago
@craigrmeyer Your google search tip is dynamite! I'll be using this is a future vid.
Thank you.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
Alturism is not a concept that can be applied to "Christianity", that would be ignorant. Failing to understand why is due by interpreting Christianity through a dark veil.
Ones viewpoint depends upon ones dogmatic indoctrination, as with authoritarian "Christianity" - Roman Catholic, Jehowa's witnessess, and sects - there's very little room for critique. The same goes for all who aren't thoroughly educated in what spiritual love really means, as when Christ tells to love our enemies.
chanses2 5 months ago
@chanses2 But Christ telling you to love your enemies is a form of altruism. It is also irrational to love someone that wants to hurt you.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
Comment removed
chanses2 5 months ago
@RockingMrE Altruism is selfless caring for others, yes, but in a deeper sense of the word love, as it stretches to the spiritual realm and the everlasting life. This is not irrational in that sense, since the bulk of humanity look no further than this life, and the reward of something before dying. Irrational in this world's spirit of thinking is doing it for an unselfish purpose. But to care for others without thought of reward, and intently glorifying the Creator, is stretching beyond.
chanses2 5 months ago
@RockingMrE Doing things out of spiritual love, for what God did through Christ, giving his life so that we might be certain that we have eternal life through God's redemption, that is stretching a bit further, it has a source and purpose. (Chr. is opposite to religion - even though some denominations have shaped Christianity into a religion, as with Catholic C (that's why reformators protested, one, Hussites, was burned by the Roman CC, the one before Luther (both started as Catholic priests).
chanses2 5 months ago
Whenver altruism is doing something for another person's "own good" without taking into consideration what the other person wants or needs, it can become abusive. On a collective level, one should look at Boulder Colorado. Liberal altruism taken to the extreme where one can't build a six foot privacy fence because it would "Block the view" of the mountains. Also find a jaded cynic, and you are more then likely going to find a disillusioned atruistic idealist.
theallseeingoracle 5 months ago
Anything that starts with coercion is not altruism. Charity ends where violence begins.
noadmiration 5 months ago
Good video! If I can offer anything in the form of a critique it would be that the ending quote is from Stalin, not Marilyn Manson.
steve0281 5 months ago
@steve0281 Yeah, a few people have told me this, so I put an annotation into the vid.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE Regardless, keep up the good work, keep spreading the word, and keep the Faith!
steve0281 5 months ago
To me, what you're describing in a lot of the examples sounds like altruism without wisdom. A wise altruist does not help someone in a manner that will create (co)dependency, knowing that it is better (more beneficial to the other) to perhaps practice a tougher form of love in a given situation.
Likewise, a wise altruist is unlikely to believe that human suffering can be reduced through suicide bombing
Idiotic altruism is easy to abuse, but that goes for any 'virtue'.
churchofstfu 5 months ago 5
@churchofstfu I agree that idiotic altruism is a valid argument. But regarding the rest of the vid is it wise altruism to take from one hard working group to give to another? The state has no money of its own, and thus must do this for an altruistic idea like the "greater good". Giving people something without them earning it, regarldess of the circumstances, has serious implications on codependeny - aka welfare.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE First off, I assume we would have very different definitions of how one would 'earn' something, and whether certain things should be positive rights, but that's a longer discussion.
I would disagree that helping people even though they haven't "earned" it necessarily fosters co-dependency. A somewhat simplistic example (that yet still helps dispute the 'regardless' qualification): If one helps a drowning child, that is "unearned" help on the part of the child.
(cont)
churchofstfu 5 months ago
@RockingMrE For a somewhat less abstract example, being altruistic by providing job training and opportunities at cost to one's own wallet, providing various rehabilitation services to drug users, and providing temporary housing and essential healthcare to people who've lost their homes so they don't descend into a cycle of un-employability and misery (it gets hard to get hired once you lose a few front teeth, for example) is a way *out* of dependency on others.
churchofstfu 5 months ago
@churchofstfu You can't give someone something if you expect to do it via taxation. This leads to a greater good fallacy where it is moral to do an immoral act if it helps another. The child example indicates altruism in nature, though I would argue that a person risking their life to save another puts the ones they love at risk - if the person dies in the process they will cause misery to those they care, or even a loss of familial income. Consider firefighters as an example of this too.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE First off, I don't think that the "greater good fallacy" is a fallacy in any formal sense. In some schools of Utilitarian thought, (and consequentialist thought generally) it would be considered ethically good (moral) to do something that achieves greater overall gain, even if under other circumstances that same act would be ethically wrong.
Second, whether taxation is immoral also depends on your ethical views on the matter, it's certainly not a given.
churchofstfu 5 months ago
@churchofstfu I could summarise your comment here thusly: It's immoral to use force to attain ANY objective whatsoever. You can't justify an immoral action with a moral one - and anyone that disagrees does not truly respect individual liberty, the very foundation of freedom. There is no basis for any discussion unless this is first established - nothing can be built without this principle at its core, because without this it all leads to different shades of totalitatianism.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE One more thing: it is not immoral to use force to physically defend yourself when under attack, though this must be relative to the force being used. So chopping someone's head off with an axe is not relative to a punch in the face. Ultimately it is the INITIATION of force that is NEVER morally justified.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE Please watch this, I advise other MRA's to do the same!
Tim Tyler: The meme's eye view
watch?v=syEK4Hp6VjI&feature=feedu
Like I said in my PM to you- you say something and then its outthere!
apekillssnake 5 months ago
@RockingMrE Just wanted to add that the firefighter is an example given that they have to take calculated risks, as opposed to completely altruistic ones that put their lives at risk. This could cause misery to the family and friends of the firefighter if killed by a foolishly altruistic act in the line of duty.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@churchofstfu Exactly, the problem is most governmental altruism and the welfare state has systematically destroyed the ability of most of those under its care to change their circumstances. It isn't helping them "out" of their situation and is in fact encouraging the situation to continue. Enforcing altruism in my opinion is exactly what leads to these types of situations. There is no blanket fix and like you said, sometimes "tougher love" is going to be a more beneficial answer.
ToiletBomb 5 months ago
Not sure I agree with all of that (most of it).
Just want to say fantastic presentation all the same.
MarkMuses 5 months ago
though i do not believe in the literal meaning of altruism.
biakuya 5 months ago
the answer is BALANCE, Harmony. Altruism is necessary and it is good, but too much of a good thing can almost always be a bad thing.
biakuya 5 months ago
Rocking Mr. E, "Altruism" is never going to go TOO far, IF you are the Last Man Standing. However, it does seem to impact "polite society", which are farcical in man-made "nature"...nobody wants to play with a serious altruistic "Individual", they want to play at playing, as long as the safety net and the benefits of whatever version of "society" is currently running, will catch them so they can lock the door and keep the "Individuals" at bay. Close the gates, it's them kooky barbarians again!
TheCaptainSlappy 5 months ago
I agree with you on altruism. It's an emergent concept that comes from the act(s) of selfishness. Given this is the case, the idea of central altruism is quite disturbing.
CosmicThinking 5 months ago
Great video; got me to finally subscribe to you. You can see pathological altruism here on YouTube where some people have no sense of proportion. An example would be the many who, while intelligent in some regards, would suggest that another person kill themselves for the "greater good" only because of some beliefs that people have. This is a unsympathetic response to a lack of empathy and only serves the condemning person's self satisfaction and not the "greater good" they claim to speak for.
slaughtz 5 months ago
What most of these statists don't realize is that collectivism in practice and in theory is a stateless concept. Of course with the word games most of them play, they use "the state" to describe "society", so they then say if you are against the state, taxation, centralism etc... you are against "society". They are wannabe socialists who have no idea with socialism is about. And they think the Tea Party is misunderstood on the topic!
CosmicThinking 5 months ago
Altruism is actually something I am not that familiar with though I have heard it mentioned at cocktail parties and, I think, church. As something someone does on their own I suppose it's fine in small does. Now as tool for manipulating individuals or societies it produces mixed results. N. Korea wonders! The US - fat chance!
One of the first things I thought as I listened that it can lead to co-dependency.
Usually on religious things I get called ' heretic' but the term 'evil' does come up : )
acuriousbeast 5 months ago
@acuriousbeast Lol - I should have included the term heretic in there - a good example :-P
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE The appeal to altruism is kind of a mixed bag as far a social engineering tool. It tends to work in certain situations like at the beginning of a regime change, during a war, or when there is threat of war. It tends to play out fairly quickly especially when people start noticing the people wanting them engage in altruistic behavior have put on some weight & have nicer clothes than they do. N. Korea having the Olympics will be an interesting test for them using that particular tool.
acuriousbeast 5 months ago
Good video, but I'm uncomfortably reminded of the misandric phrase Pathological Masculinity. Such pop psychology terms make me uneasy!
dalriada842 5 months ago
@RockingMrE
Pathological altruism is not limited to social field.
On a personal level, this pathology shows itself as a "victim behavior".
People who try to help drug addicts or alcohol abusers by marrying them.
Another example are those japanese and chinese "workaholicks", they sacrifice their long term health benefits to short term profit for others.
There are many more examples that fall under this category.
We just need to learn a "healthy altruism" balanced with "healthy egoism".
SEThatered 5 months ago
Think of altruism as saying, "Hey, look at me! I've got so much stuff that I'm giving it away to you poor losers!"
Laconophile 5 months ago
I wonder if altruism is a result of the handicap principle? You'd be surprised how many behaviors are actually misapplied mating strategies. In this case altruism signals to the opposite sex that you are so comfortable you can afford to sacrifice some of your wealth for others' benefit.
Laconophile 5 months ago
Caring for and doing what is best for this planet has nothing to do with altruism, its just basic survival of our species... I don't know who'se quote this is but: "We are not the owners of this planet and its recources, we are just borrowing it from the next generation" Also, if people truely worked together (and used the BEST methods in all aspects of life instead of the MOST PROFITABLE), the qualitiy of life would improve for all people, again not altruistic, just realistic..
wederwoord 5 months ago
@wederwoord What you are describing is the natural inclination for humans to coopoerate for the benefit of all. This is actually quite selfish when you consider the individual benefit, though many claim that this is altruism. But it goes too far when you force people to adhere to the collective. If it isn't voluntary it isn't moral. It's really as simple as that.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@PinkProgram why does your side make up claims as to what is said and then expect those false claims to be answered, but you never answer the fucking questions! How does my comment differ from your comment? Lets have an answer!
apekillssnake 5 months ago
The first time I've watched one of your new videos which isn't about a subject I haven't been researching personally in the same time frame. Combo breaker! Also, a great video. I feel that the natural order creates collectivism, in that we all independently work towards common aims. When this is forced by a few nutters in a parliament it never quite works.
gingergiblet 5 months ago
I like that you took Joseph Stalin's quote and used it in the spirit that Marylin Manson did :)
thegyger 5 months ago
I've come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as altruism. it's just individuals acting in self-interest to appease their subjective value systems in their own brain.
It would give someone peace of mind being nice to someone they like.
Most people feel good after doing charity work.
blakstar101 5 months ago
I sometimes try helping people without there being any benefit for myself in it. It seems to shock people and they often look at me like I've lost my marbles. ^_^ I wonder what triggers that response.
chocoboasylum 5 months ago
I think humanity would prefer me to be altruistic,,,
PinkProgram 5 months ago
@PinkProgram Yes you are absolutely right. Id like you to give your life up for others, but that is a very different thing to what MrE is talking about-he's refering to Pathological altruism, I suspect where its all false and is spoken about in a way in which socialists pretend to be for other people! Like being a pathological liar.Tell me if you look at the comment I made and the comment you left me on UjimJams how are they different and why do you think you have the moral highground=P altruism
apekillssnake 5 months ago
@apekillssnake I literally don't have a life. I actually am part of a neural hive mind and I always have to pay attention to what would be best for my Host and siblings or we'd all die. If you monkeys actually worked together instead of acting like greedy little animals your species could go much farther. You divide yourselves up by race, country and gender but you are all the same species -__- what is the point of not helping each other survive? Humans are social primates right?
PinkProgram 5 months ago
@apekillssnake I literally don't have a life. I actually am part of a neural hive mind and I always have to pay attention to what would be best for my Host and siblings or we'd all die. If you monkeys actually worked together instead of acting like greedy little animals your species could go much farther. You divide yourselves up by race, country and gender but you are all the same species -__- what is the point of not helping each other survive? Humans are social primates right?
PinkProgram 5 months ago
@PinkProgram I guess she saw my profile as a "prosocial avatar", doesn't know what it means, is guessing to think she is superior-is making a hash of it, but is going for the misrepresentation of ideas like the otherside always do! Its good to know from reading this that she thinks she's the sane one! This is what they do, all the time..what a fascinating psychological study into the mechanism which cause this and why!She's superior to you as well MrE mocking you for providing a Statist metaphor
apekillssnake 5 months ago
@apekillssnake Well of course I'm designed to be superior to a monkey :3 and I'm quite sane for a self professed neurological disorder. You don't seem too interested in helping your fellow humans for a "prosocial avatar". You can call yourself whatever you want but your behavior is what it is. Here I am trying to end world hunger, eliminate the petrol dependence, and usher in a new paradigm of technology while you are busy trolling :3 Who is superior to whom ^_^
PinkProgram 5 months ago
@PinkProgram That's nice sweetheart, you are in here like a little girl licking her lolly and not really aware of what is going on around her, aren't you! Do you want to say something else..!
apekillssnake 5 months ago
@apekillssnake nice projection there :3 perhaps your statement would hold more weight if you actually had any content on your page. I've actually been helping with the integration of technology with biology. You've made it quite clear that you are just a whiny little monkey with nothing to show for your life. I have no arms or legs of my own and I'm still more useful than you ^_^ Go back and suck on your phallic fruit of choice. I hear monkeys enjoy bananas ;3
PinkProgram 5 months ago
Want perfect examples of it going too far?
Look at what the warlords in Africa do with all the aid sent there (to say nothing of it undermining local autonomy).
Look at the Native American reservations. They don't have to do anything, yet Because of that, they have some of the highest suicide, unemployment and drug usage rates on the planet.
Self determinism and personal responsibility is best.
Rensune 5 months ago
Very good video and very well done.
If I may ask, what is the altruistic fallacy? Is it the erosion of people's well being in an attempt to increase their well being?
I am not quite sure.
Thumbs up
simonashari 5 months ago
@simonashari Your description of an altruistic fallacy is a very good one ;-)
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE You have a "Enter the Dragon" shrt +100 respect points for you my friend
KiddCrowley 5 months ago
@KiddCrowley . . . and a Motorhead shirt in the beginning. Both equals mega-killer points.
Wytchfinde 5 months ago
Superb video buddy...many thanks for your thoughts.
Yazoo2564 5 months ago
Great vid, though I think there may be a difference between actual altruism & that which is marketed in a way to suggest it is altruistic when its real motives are anything but... The obvious example is the purposeful use of benefits to keep British working lass people in indolent semi-comfort to justify continued mass immigration – the real pernicious purpose of which is to socially engineer demographic change.
CeltoSaxonKnight 5 months ago
aah.... if only people were interested in truth then we wouldn't need philosophy.
Sivels 5 months ago
Your videos always challenge my thinking, also I learn new words. (I'm from Finland.) It's great that you explain things as you go along. You make good arguments in this video. I used to think we need a social security system by the state, but now I believe in friends just helping each other out. It's painful but true that it is easy to become dependent upon social security money. I've seen it happen. "Why work when you can just do nothing and get paid more than if working?" Not very motivating.
Paperilintu 5 months ago
@Paperilintu Finland - that's one country that would be really hard to live in if you don't adhere to the collective Socialist mentality, that's for sure. Good to see that you are part of the mould breaking out of it though, especially given your regional issues you are faced with.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE What regional issues are you referring to?
Paperilintu 5 months ago
Cool video but I do not think your use of the term collectivism is appropriate or advancing the cause of liberty. From the dictionary:
"the practice or principle of giving a group priority over each individual in it.
• the theory and practice of the ownership of land and the means of production by the people or the state."
I argue that the individual should have the priority and the group benefits from it.
Also, check out the Wikipedia Talk:Joseph_Stalin section for that MM quote.
fructoric 5 months ago
@fructoric All I would add to your words here is that if we do not elevate individual rights over the collective then it all leads to one place: tyranny. The sooner peoeple realise this the better.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE Then if you oppose tyranny (giving a group priority over an individual) can we use a different word instead of collectivism more clearly describe the welfare that results from defense of individual rights?
fructoric 5 months ago
@fructoric Collectivism is a valid term, though I repeatedly acknowledge the difference between voluntary collectivism and other types; like Socialism, Democracy, or statism.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
I feel like your insistence to use the word is disregarding the social nature of language and the very first definition in my dictionary. You can use it however you want but it might indirectly work against you.
fructoric 5 months ago
Very informative video. I meant to read that Matt Ridley book on this subject but never have.
pinegrove33 5 months ago
@pinegrove33 There's a Matt Ridley book too? I'll check that out.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
great vid again man, i couldnt agree more
MGsven 5 months ago
I could never understand personal responsibility when it came to economic measures especially health concerns, how do you know when you are well enough to role the dice with your life ?
Curas1 5 months ago
@Curas1 You'll have to elaborate what you mean because I'm not sure what you are referring to by "role the dice with your life?"
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE
It always struck me that there was something wrong with the idea that the sicker you are the less responsable you are and therefore it's your fault for being less productive and not securing your own healthcare instead of 'expecting' others to carry your burden.
It feels like a darwinian concept of authoritarian social culture because if you don't 'carry your load' it's your fault and they should just 'let them die'.
You've heard that floating around youtube haven't you ?
Curas1 5 months ago
@Curas1 Yeah. What I would ask you is do you think it is legitimate to take, or even steal money from one group to give to another for some "greater good"? If your answer is yes the the sooner people realise that this will never give you what you yearn the better. It might be hard to accept but no matter what we do there will always be those that suffer, and the most we can do is nurture charity, a free market, stable family life, and voluntary communities.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE
As a individualist like yourself I too loathe the statist aspect of the economic progressive views I've come to support, however as a futurist I understand scarcity and in ways that not many progressives or conservatives in economics do.
But I agree there will always be those that suffer but deregulated markets, cultural uniformity, privatized assistance and perhaps Voluntaryism (humm stateless society huh) are just going to fall apart.
Ayn Rand's Galt's Gulch wont work.
Curas1 5 months ago
@Curas1 There will always be those that suffer NO MATTER WHAT the system, so turning this around onto a free market is misdirection. Historically we know that statism always leads to coercion and theft, but people repeat the same fallacies over and over - the definition of insanity. Forcing people to comply to collectivism is illegitimate, even for the "greater good". It doesn't matter what your cause is - it's immoral. Those who don't value this are disingenuous, naive, or even exploitative.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
I agree with this.
Donatellangelo 5 months ago
f___ing great guitarist .. when i did philosophy so many of my fellow students were natural musicians .. i got up to grade 4 in piano, took me as many years, not a musical bone in my body
a well thought out commentary as usual tho i question your use of 'altruism'
dependancy culture was cynically instituted to leave ppl helpless when the controllers finally pulled the plug b/c at this time they want chaos n poverty as they transition their herd into their long envisioned upgraded statist hell
AlanWattParrot 5 months ago
@AlanWattParrot I talk about codependency in this vid, as well as the damage that removing entitlement programs does.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE you do indeed!
AlanWattParrot 5 months ago
@AlanWattParrot Btw thanks for your compliment :-)
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE you're welcome .. i've fav this one as it's such a concise / densely packed analysis needful of a few plays .. quality thinker, kind regards D
AlanWattParrot 5 months ago
Being ABLE to fend for one's self is important tho. IF people have the means to take care of themselves then they should but if the gov't has shipped all their jobs overseas and killed the economy and they, then, have NO means to care 4 themselves, they NEED the gov't or someone to help them!
julzabro 5 months ago
@julzabro The government should never have shipped all those jobs abroad in the first place. Don't be too quick to buy into the great globalisation lie. I'll address this in an upcoming vid.
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE That's a lie? I'm an ex UAW worker...I was there, but maybe you know something I don't. I look forward to all your vids. ;)
julzabro 5 months ago
@julzabro Thanks :-)
RockingMrE 5 months ago
“Altruism” on the part of the state is certainly pathological. All welfare and entitlement programs should be rescinded. So many are brainwashed to believe that the government acts in our best interest. The truth is that all they care about is power! One of the greatest myths is that socialized, state-mandated education serves the best interest of the populace. The truth is that it is a tool in the government’s agenda to subjugate the populace!
UltraConservative298 5 months ago
@UltraConservative298 Hmmmmm, self-reliance only works when you haven't oppressed an entire people for 300 years. Oh yes that old bugaboo Slavery. While the Government in a effort to correct this societal wrong, uses social programs such as welfare to cause dependency on the State. Meaning Welfare from the start was a poorly constructed Anti-Poverty measure. On that point I agree with you, but that's where it ENDS.
dj4monie 5 months ago
I think what you're calling altruism is not REAL altruism. If an act is meant to increase one's control over the masses or ANY agenda that is not moral, then it's NOT altruistic.
julzabro 5 months ago
Yeah but is it the codependence or other negative reactions OR the altruistic act itself that makes it "pathological"? "Selling ideas" as in politics is not true altruism....I don't think any politician has ever been altruistic in the truest sense of the word. ;) I think people can be unique AND altruistic at the same time. Interesting.
julzabro 5 months ago
The do-gooder altruism of liberals who wanted unilateral disarmament in the 1980's to appease CCCP were suicidal, in a sense. Altruism as an impediment to you own survival. Remember their slogan?
"Better red than dead."
Another relevant saying: No good deed goes unpunished.
People resent patronizing generosity and have only ill-will in return for it.
DexterHaven49 5 months ago
Good points. Altruistic and selfish are vague words that are obstacles to understanding the facts, I think. They are man-made signs and should be dropped while looking at conduct alone to get a clear view, I sense you are one to something when you say pure altruism doesn't exist. It's a bogus concept like perfection with no referent. Better to ask those who use it to describe the facts without it. If they can't, they rely on man-made verbal fictions that confuse their understanding.
DexterHaven49 5 months ago
My own altruism, generosity, empathy and idealism have essentially done nothing but make me a target for attack and disapproval. I try to be an avatar. It is a tough row to hoe and no matter how humble I am, I seem to be feared for my sharing and good actions. It seems that when you give with no strings, this just totally does not compute with them. I've had to become more aggressive and in their face, refusing to be their doormat, as a result. Probably a good thing. Uprated.
slobomotion 5 months ago
great talk.
Nolen87 5 months ago
Dude,I think Stalin said that.Anyway,the super tinkerers,the ones who know how all things work will be able to handle things.People that think too much on non-issues are the most dangerous idiots and need to be confronted.
taxisgay12 5 months ago
@taxisgay12 I'll add an annotation to my vid so that people don't keep telling me the same thing about Stalin throughout this comments section. Thanks for letting me know :-)
RockingMrE 5 months ago
Manson was repeating a quote attributed to Stalin. Just thought you might like to know. :)
thatsnotagoodidea 5 months ago
@thatsnotagoodidea Really? I'll have to remember that. I bet I am told this 100 times on this vid :-D
RockingMrE 5 months ago
@RockingMrE Yep that sounds about right. LOL.
thatsnotagoodidea 5 months ago