Ethics & Religion: Can You be good without God? ( Adam's Opening Statement - 1 of 4 )

[HerbJon]

Watch the whole debade instead. Search for: Can you be good without God? Adam Deen vs. Dan Barker (one of USA's leading atheists)

[eritasevoli]

"Can You be good without God?"

No.

If there is no heaven, why be good if there is no reward in the afterlife? I am not obliged to be nice to you if I'm not rewarded in the afterlife.

If there is no hell, why can't I rape and kill? These are the only things that scare people into not commiting these acts.

[Sasuk3xxx]

@eritasevoli See people like that chose to be moral because of fear, I chose to be nice to others because it is logical, it's called reason, instead of saying god told you not to kill your neighbor for no reason, why don't you ask yourself how would you like it if your neighbor killed your for no reason?

[theneonfire]

@eritasevoli If heaven and hell are the only things that can convince you into doing good things or prevent you from doing bad things, you aren't a moral person.

[spiminator]

Wow, I must applaude Dan. I've watched the whole debate and Dan really has presented very good arguments. I share all his thoughts.

I am also an atheist and humanist ...

[awia12]

As an atheist myself, i do not believe in absolutely supreme mortality, i believe in a morality system that can be discussed, changed, and one that does not hurt others. A morality that evolves that suits everyone's needs. Anyone who thinks that killing disbelievers is moral needs to really rethink their moral code.

[mrbgnwo]

hope to see the complete debate soon..

Thanks for the good upload.

[satanicaa]

morality is in the eye of the beholder, and is completely subjective. there is absolutely no way to prove that you're right or wrong, even in the cases where we consider them to be definitely right or wrong

[dhyleck]

If u don't believe in something absolute then yes morality is subjective, that being said the highest virtue then becomes power. The only standard of morality that can be implemented will be that which can be enforced by those who can enforce it & this way of thinking will lead to chaos because at the end of the day every single criminal can be considered moral by one standard or the other, since morality is subjective hence every1 can be moral and immoral at the same time.

[satanicaa]

I agree to a certain degree, but how can someone prove that they're right? It's absolutely impossible. Regardless of which religion you believe in, which deity you follow, since it can't be "proved" everyone tends to have their own views. Furthermore, even the biggest religions in the world disagree on moral principles, which should the people of the world follow?

[dhyleck]

If there is an absolute then the distinction between the absolute and everything else will be absolute. This means that if there is a God and there is a true religion then that religion will stand out absolutely. So in reply to ur question either u accept my answer when I say that Islam is the true religion OR u find out for urself. But until & unless u don't choose either 1 u have no right to make absolute statements like " ..there is absolutely no way to prove that you're right or wrong.. "

[satanicaa]

Theoretically, you're right. Historically and logically, this doesn't SEEM to be the case. If a religion was absolute why would there be any doubt in embracing it by anyone? By the way, I'm a muslim so be careful before you make assumptions. And there IS NO way to prove absolutely that Islam is the right religion, which is why you can't convince everyone that you're right =) it's simple logic really

[dhyleck]

If ur a muslim then let me quote to u a few verses of the Quran "...truth stands clear from from falsehood... " (2:256)

"Those who do not respond to Allah's caller cannot thwart Allah on earth and have no protectors apart from Him. Such people are clearly misguided." (46:32)

"Have you come to us to turn us from what we found our fathers doing, and to gain greatness in the land? We do not believe you." (10:78)

[satanicaa]

that works fine for me, but can you use that as arguments for an athiest? The answer is no, because that's what I used to do. I spent countless hours trying to convince people exactly the same way you are doing now, and it was grossly unsuccessful. I recommend truly thinking about morality and reading books other than the quran to have a better insight on THEIR end of the spectrum. Thanks jazak Allah khair

[dhyleck]

...Continued

"Satan fills them with false hopes, and Satan makes them not promises but deception" (4:120)

this is why people don't accept the truth even if it hits them in the face they choose disbelief and the dunya.

[dhyleck]

Well as far as an athiest is concerned I have had a few debates with them and I have never used the Quran to prove my point. But let me give u a piece of advice If as a theist (not as a muslim) we can prove that the Quran is the evidence for the existence of God then the next argument becomes automatically true that Islam's morality is the absolute morality.

[AYEMAQ]

some very good points

good upload bro keep up to good work

may Allah subhana wo talla reward u best of rewards ameen