Should you force yourself to read the Bible?

[d3ltadrive]

Forcing yourself into it, without first creating a basic relationship with God is a horrible idea. The Bible is so symbolic that it makes Shakespeare look strait forward. You need to carefully read it so that you can know what you're reading. If you force yourself you're going to think that it is literal and you are not going to understand it at all.

[naciamaJYute]

@d3ltadrive A great much of the Bible is literal and can be easily understood by the common man (especially with some of these new translations). I say start with the Gospels: Matthew, Mark Luke John. Whats so hard to understand about these books?

Besides how can anyone form a real relationship with Jesus without reading the Bible?

[d3ltadrive]

@naciamaJYute These new translations are absolutely heretic. Look into them. They switch out Christ for Satan and vice versa on numerous occasions, take out entire verses, and change much of the scriptures to fit their agenda. The Bible is a book of symbols. The historic parts are literal, but what people don't understand it that scripture which is prophetic in nature (including prophecies that were fulfilled in the same book such as the 10 plagues) and parables are 100%s symbolic.

[d3ltadrive]

@naciamaJYute The scriptures needed to be written symbolically and as a puzzle so that they wouldn't be destroyed. Many times the prophecies had to do with the downfall of the empires they were written in, and as you know the Jews and (true) Christians have never been tolerated. Even the reformation wasn't completely biblical, though some got close for a time. 

[d3ltadrive]

@naciamaJYute Also no one understands the Bible until they have a relationship with Christ. I had a relationship with Christ and that's what got me into the Bible, I allowed the Holy Spirit into my heart and was spiritually born. I then started studying the Bible. It has been a great experience, the best of my life. Christ's word has strengthened my faith in him and relationship with him.

[Pr3ttyStakkz]

@ KaijinDV please feel free to get at me on twitter I could talk about Christ all day.

twitter: seekyefirst10

[Pr3ttyStakkz]

@KaijinDV

The bad news is because you have rejected Christ the Holy Spirit does not dwell inside of you. 1 cor 1:18 "says the cross to those who are perishing is foolishness", it also says God enjoys using the simple things to confuse the wise. Until you believe and repent of your sins you will never understand, because we only understand his work by his grace of revealing these things to us. We don't understand these things because we are smarter or more holy, only because of his love

[jasonvanb1]

The most central way we know God exists and that the claims of the Christian Gospel are true is the historical reality of the bodily resurrection and ascention of Jesus Christ. IF Jesus rose from the dead and ascended into heaven as seen by many witnesses, then the Gospel of Jesus Christ is true. IF Jesus did not rise from the dead, then the Christian has no hope and the Gospel is a sham. Read NT Wright's The Resurrection of the Son of God or Mike Licona's Resurrection of Jesus. Evidence speaks

[WMsReligion]

Thank you, praise God for John Piper.

[warwolfii]

It takes a tremendous amount of discipline to love and worship someone who isn't there. I suppose it's easy enough to do when one is insane and believes all sorts of crazy things, but for a sane person it takes a great deal, most especially early childhood indoctrination.

[naciamaJYute]

@warwolfii Isn't it odd that 'enlightened',' intelligent', 'rational' people as yourself and fellow atheists: - spend so much of your time arguing with 'insane' Christians

- are always watching 'brainwashing' Christian videos

- have such an immense hate for an 'imaginary' God

- invest so much in disproving a 'fairytale' book

why do you guys care about our imaginary world so much?

Ahhh just admit it! You are all closet believers! :-)

[warwolfii]

@naciamaJYute Do you know me personally? Do you know me so well that you are able to say with such certitude what I "always" do? Actually, I came to understand the insanity of religion during my four years in seminary! I do not hate God. How can one hate something one doesn't believe exists? I care about people's beliefs because they are constantly shoved into our faces and because there are people in this world who still believe this horrid stuff and who also possess nuclear weapons.

[naciamaJYute]

@warwolfii Wow!! 4 yeeeeaaaars, and still didn't find God. Took me less than 4 minutes. Who would have thought....

Anyways Is that why you are here?To save the world from Christians with Nuclear weapons? Well you can cross me off your list. All they gave me was a Bible. :-)

[d3ltadrive]

@naciamaJYute More like Catholics, Anglicans, passive believers, and ect. with nuclear weapons. True Christians live only by the new covenant and only by peace.

[KaijinDV]

@naciamaJYute i wouldn't find it that odd at all. Coming from a high christian area myself. whether or not I myself believe in any particular claim doesn't mean that that idea can't have a significant effect on my life. If I'm going to have to deal with religious fundamentalists in order to get equal rights for gay couples, then it just makes sense that I find out what they believe and why they believe it rather then try and isolate myself to their views

[naciamaJYute]

@KaijinDV Not interested in discussing gay rights the bible is clear on that.

I'm more interested in the "SIGNIFICANT EFFECT' that Christ has had on your life. Please testify.

[KaijinDV]

@naciamaJYute actually Christ hasn't had an effect on my life, Jesus (if he existed) lived and died 2 thousand years ago, but I have been in contact with his followers. as an atheist I couldn't join the boy scouts as a kid because according to them i can't "grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God". While I was living in Utah i couldn't buy alcohol on Sundays. its not so much jesus, as it is people doing ignorant and bigoted things in his name

[KaijinDV]

@naciamaJYute i understand if you don't want to discuss the rights of our fellow men but if your going to use the bible as a reason for not allowing them to marry, does it not stand that you don't do other things that the bible labels as an abomination, and are also neutral and/or in favor of practices the bible's God was also neutral and/or in favor of?

[naciamaJYute]

@KaijinDV Hey He exists. We talk quite often. Ever since he transformed my life.

The real question is: Do you want to meet Him?

[KaijinDV]

@naciamaJYute could you prove that he exists? I mean that would be helpful in meeting him. Obviously.

If we are to take seriously the demands of beings that only seem to make their presence known in the minds of others, then i know of a few flying pink elephants who have some ideas on how to end the debt crisis.

[naciamaJYute]

@KaijinDV Let me rephrase the question:

Assuming the creator of all things exists and has such concern and love for you that he gives everything including his life to not only spare your life from certain destruction but to provide you with a new life free from fear, worry and death, would you want to meet Him?

BTW if your elephants offer such things i'd like to meet them.

[KaijinDV]

@naciamaJYute given that wild assumption, sure. i would like to meet him. if i may ask a few questions of you.

1. do you care if what you believe is correct

2. how do you if a claim is correct? (if I were to tell you that the world is flat, how would you be able to tell if i was right or not)

3. what stopped an all powerful loving god from not forgiving sin without a sacrifice?

[naciamaJYute]

@KaijinDV 1. There's more evidence for the life of Jesus than there is for Abraham Lincoln.

2. To know if a cake recipe is correct follow the instructions. I've tested the promises of Jesus, they are true, my life is evidence.

3. He is not only all loving but also completely JUST. He wont bend the rules. If someone sins the penalty is death. We all should have died but for his mercy in taking our place.

You can experience the greatest phenomenon in all the universe: the love of God.

[KaijinDV]

@naciamaJYute I notice that you didn't actually answer the questions asked. you'd make a successful politician

the first one is a simple yes or no question, whether you care if what you believe (all beliefs not just the divinity of Jesus Christ) is actually correct

[KaijinDV]

@naciamaJYute the second answer is fine, we know if a claim is true when we test it. and only after proper testing and verification can we determine if a claim is true or not. although i call into question that you've tested if there is an afterlife as youtube doesn't allow the dead to make their own profiles. how exactly did you test the promises of Jesus?

also i would have to disagree with you, the greatest phenomenon in all the universe is actually Star Wars episode 5: The Empire Strikes Back

[naciamaJYute]

@KaijinDV LOL. OK

1. Yes I care about truth.

2. After proving His promises I take the others (like the resurrection) on faith

How did I test the promises of Jesus?

Here's one occasion:

Phil 4:7, "And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus."

Peace of mind cannot be faked. I prayed in serious trouble. He not only delivered me, most of all the anxiousness, fear and worry was replaced almost immediately by PEACE

[csnowutube]

Please read the bible. There is no quicker way out of religion. 

[Son7of7God7]

I am not afraid of questions, by all means question your reality!! Please! If you were to come to me tomorrow and say "you know what Mitch, I dont think 5 X 5 really equals 25" I wouldnt say "well just have faith, all things are possible with God!" I would say check your math. Go find out. I already know what you will find if you sincerely seek, and not just try to build your case for the next argument. Ive already been there, and at the end of the day....you are still broken.

[Son7of7God7]

You will only understand scripture if you have a hunger for truth. Most of you are willing to risk eternity for the pleasure of a few laughs, and the false sense of security that accompanies an unaccountable existence. This truth is not an easy one. But it is glorious! It is not a crutch, but rather disables every crutch and forces you to come to the stark terms of reality. You too will be shaken, and what where will you then find comfort friend?

[andrewmarcus91]

@ndzoko some differences in Christian worship are honest differences of opinion, while others are just false worship, people who don't read their Bible being lead astray by false teachers. Also Their is nonew testiment verse that read in context promotes killing, and those places in the old testiment were within reason if you understand the context of a fledgling nation that wouldn't survive without God, God gave spicific directions as to who, why, and how!

[pogibija]

Matthew 5:17-18 , Jesus christ says you must obey all scripture. So, old testament must be still law. I read my bible :]

[max2right]

Yes I do and, for the most part, it's an interesting and enjouable life. Your invisible imaginary god couldni't dash my babies tio the ground so life is good.

[MrD2dude]

lol... so by are own discipline and willpower we ought to force ourselves (lawfully) to read a book that is all about the pitfalls of religiosity and self-righteousness... right, okay Piper. Keep on telling people that God is a prideful, glory fiend to...

Incredulous...

[clubsandwich77]

@MrD2dude sad. all i can say to you. sad.

[max2right]

I've read it. "Then I heard the LORD say to the other men,… “ Kill them all – old and young, girls and women and little children” Ezekiel 9:5-7.

“Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes.” Isaiah 13:15-18. “Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses” 1 Samuel 15:2-3.

This is just a small sample of the hideous immorality found in the bible.

[Son7of7God7]

@max2right All His ways are just and true. You dont understand why this happened. You need to look at the bigger picture. In the movie quarantine would you say that the government is wrong for killing everyone in the city to prevent a global crisis? This life is a shadow, the first death is a picture to poin to something far worse. If we dont have Christ we dont have Life, and are consequently condemned to the punishment that has been prepared not for us but those who deny God.

[max2right]

@Son7of7God7 There is no justification for killing babies. Only the insanity of religious belief attempts to do so.

[Son7of7God7]

@max2right You are accusing the God who created them, and saying who are You to do with that which You Yourself have created? "You have no right." Not only does He have the right, He has to act in justice, which translates to either wrath or mercy according to the response of fallen man. These sovereign acts are called Judgements and means decision. Sin has to be Judged. But He has offered the gift of repentance. Those children are with Him. Death is a precursor, signaling something thereafter.

[max2right]

@Son7of7God7 Your religion is simply a large evil and dangerous death cult. Followers depend on the immoral, primitive and barbaric idea that the sacrifice of another human being will remove their responsibility for any wrongs they themselves have done and earn them a second life in a paradise with a god. This cult glorifies death and the destruction of the planet as the means to get that so called reward. This god is a blood thirsty mass murder and doesn’t deserve a moments consideration.

[Son7of7God7]

@max2right Im sorry my friend you have it somewhat twisted. We dont glorify death, and we are not a cult. Jesus Himself glorified the Father through His obedience, even to death, and we are to fellowship in His sufferings to likewise glorify Him, not loving our lives to death. We know that what we see is not all there is for He Himself signified it by sending His prophets to testify.He Himself gave witness to the words they proclaimed at the top of their lungs, with manifest signs and wonders.

[Son7of7God7]

@max2right Might I add that our current legislation justifies countless murders of innocent babies every year on the grounds of protecting a womans right to decide what to do with her body. These people that were slaughtered were worshiping demons. God has just pulled out a group of people that will walk with Him that He plans to bring His Son through and refuses to let idolatry contaminate His people. Anyone under the age of accountability will be with Him. All those above have a choice.

[max2right]

@Son7of7God7 The existence of abortion today is no justification for your god ordering babies to dashed to the ground in front of their parents. I’ve had many replies from religious people trying to justify that and I can’t understand how anyone can or would even try. If anyone, a god or not, told me to do that I’d kill the evil bastard before he could find someone like you to do it. Your

[Son7of7God7]

@max2right You do not yet know Him. Read Isaiah 63 if you want a clear picture of our savior. This is something we all have to wrestle with, but only few can understand. Email me at son7of7God7@yahoo.com if you have any comments or questions.

[max2right]

@Son7of7God7 I understand moral behavior. I know killing children is never a moral thing to do. This god drowned countless puppies, kittens, bunnies, lions, cows, lizards, pandas, monkeys snakes, giraffes, hogs, snakes etc. Imagine the panicked mother wolf trying to get her pups to higher ground. Imagine the exhausted elephant stretching its trunk upwards for that last breath. What did each of them do to deserve such a horrible death? Nothing. This god is an indiscriminant killer.

[DraikzTake]

@max2right

And yet you live.

[ndzoko]

@Son7of7God7 This is something we all have to wrestle with, but only few can understand How can you defend a faith that few can understand ? Did this god bring salvation to theologians only , or to ordinary people ? So why is it that this word of god is so hard to grasp ? Did he or did he not want us to understand ?

[andrewmarcus91]

@ndzoko before you read, you need to ask the holy spirit to help you understand. You should start with a version you can understand like the niv, and also start with the new testiment. then

[ndzoko]

@andrewmarcus91 Are serious ? You must be joking.  The holy spirit is the joker of christianity. He was supposed to guide the church. He was supposed to help understand god`s word to every bible reader, interpreter and translator. He must have fallen asleep or doesn`t take his job seriously. He inspired everybody in a different way. Hence 35,000 christian denominations.

[Son7of7God7]

@ndzoko You arent asked to defend your faith, you are asked to give a reason for the hope that is in you. The countless number of people that have laid their lives down because of this gospel of the "Kingdom" is testimony enough that there is something here. He doesnt want the literate, He wants the hungry. I would venture even to say most theologians dont know Him. Think of the parables. Yeshua hid the truth when teaching but revealed it to His disciples.

[ndzoko]

@Son7of7God7 : The number of people who died for christianity is no proof of it`s validity. People have died for all kinds of philosophies over the centuries. Besides the martyrdom of the apostles is( except for one) very problematic. So, your god wants the hungry.. Maybe he wants the starving from hunger even more. This god sir ,who wants the hungry, is no better than Kim Il sung in North-Korea, The parables and other metaphors in the bible is one more proof, the bible is not from god.

[Son7of7God7]

@ndzoko Im sorry you feel that way my friend. I was an athiest (leaning toward Nihilism) studying Friedrich Nietzche in high school and college. I hated God, and people, and found pride in my ability to debate with, and tear down christians who had little to no understanding. When I even thought of the possibility of this being true you know what I did? I sat in my apartment for 6 months and studied. I sincerely sought. I wanted to know the truth. I was hungry.

[ndzoko]

@Son7of7God7 And WHO warrants that you have find the truth. You have found YOUR truth. Congrats, if you are happy, who can argue with success. Kids are happy with Santa too.

[Son7of7God7]

@ndzoko I cant prove God to you man. I didnt want to be a christian. Nothing anyone said could change me, or the way I felt toward the idea of God, much more Jesus. All I can say is give it a try. Search, find out for yourself. Ever since I got saved life has been insane. Admittedly most christians are asleep, and bored, but those who have laid their lives down are experiencing true christianity. You think you understand what christianity is...you have absolutely no idea.

[ndzoko]

@Son7of7God7 You think you understand what christianity is...you have absolutely no idea.>>>> You think you understand what I know about christianity ? You have absolutely no idea. !! How can you make such a statement. Do you know me.? You still think if I knew, i would not be critical of christianity. YOU are overconfident in yourself. In spite of all the positive you experience NOW, I would not bet a penny that you will still think that way 20 years from now.

[Son7of7God7]

@ndzoko I make that statement on the basis of your unbelief not of knowledge of your level of understanding. I certainly hope not! I pray that I dont think the way I do now 20 years from now. It would mean that I have become complacent and unwilling to pursue the depths of Christ. It would mean that I have become fat on my own understanding and have exchanged the knowledge of the glory of God for my own "glory". And no its not all positive. Alot of it hurts. But the good far exceeds the hurt.

[ndzoko]

@Son7of7God7 Something to ponder, my friend, to shake your juvenile self-confidence. One of the last prayers of mother Theresa....... god, IF YOU EXIST, have mercy on me....

[Son7of7God7]

@ndzoko I promise to ponder those words if you'll ponder those of Stephen the Martyr, (during the stoning) "Forgive them Lord, they don't know what they do. Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!"

[ndzoko]

@Son7of7God7 There is a christian apologetocs site sir, which basically says the following . Since the reports of the martyrdom of the apostles and other early christian martyrs, were written around 300 AD by bishop Eusebius( I can be wrong) we should do good to take these with a pitch of salt. And although we have no reason to believe that Eusebius invented them, their reliability and historicity is far from proven. (sic)

[Son7of7God7]

@ndzoko so the book of acts was written by bishop Eusebius?

[ndzoko]

@Son7of7God7 That christian apologetics site, I quoted ,sir, makes one exception, one whose martyrdom is almost certain. St Stephen. It is obvious that Eusebius did not write the story of St stephens . Is that clear ? You can look it up, if you doubt my words. You have a computer. All the info is at your fingertips.

[ndzoko]

@Son7of7God7 You can me all the private messages(extensive if you want ) you want via Youtube. I am not on facebook

[Moving2U]

@Son7of7God7 The book of Acts was written by Luke the physician, also the author of the Gospel of Luke.

[Son7of7God7]

@Moving2U I know. thanks

[Son7of7God7]

@Son7of7God7 Oh and after the 6 months of studying I sold everything I had and joined an internship in Michigan. I have seen God provide in way's that I am still dumbfounded by lol. I have learned to 'actually' listen to Him, and He has blown my entire understanding of life, reality, and of people. And all I have heard thus far is whispers compared to what is actually there, and available to those who will truly seek Him with their whole heart. He doesnt need your head, He wants your heart.

[ndzoko]

@Son7of7God7 You are just like the teener in love. He/she would give anything to the lover, do anything for the lover, and 20 years later THEY ARE DIVORCED. You lost reality. I know this extraordinary state(undescribable right ? It took me several decades to realise it were only mirages. Enjoy your divine inner disposition(not kidding). This lover, who never answers, never shows up, will satisfy the human craving for love for as long as your imagination lasts.

[Son7of7God7]

@ndzoko Yah your right. I haven't yet experienced the difficult times. I have not yet resisted to bloodshed striving against sin. I haven't experienced Him hiding His face from me yet. Therefore I haven't had to deal with the issue of whether my faith is genuine or not. But I know I'll have to, and talking to people like you help alot. Im just an infant man. I dont know anything. Im just barely taking my first steps. But it helps to know where the ditches are before-hand. Thanks =)

[AdamorSubtractum]

What is wrong with you Christians? Why would you ever want to do this to yourself? If you don't find joy in reading the bible, move on to the next fairy tail book.

[saintoccasionally]

@AdamorSubtractum I wanted to read some fairy tales; but all the Dawkins books were checked out of my local library. Maybe next time.

[Darwinsman]

@saintoccasionally quote: "I wanted to read some fairy tales; but all the Dawkins books were checked out of my local library."

You were probably looking in the wrong section. Look in the science section next time.

however, you should have seen the Bible in the Fairytales section.

[DanPrinMan]

@AdamorSubtractum

Yeah, if one day you're not pleased with your wife...move on to the next woman. And when she gets boring, find another woman. On and on and on.

Great philosophy, brother.

(Sarcasm...dum dum!)

[Blarghonius]

So, be honest with God, but not with yourself?

[durdo00]

@Blarghonius If you want to be a player, in any sport, you should to train. Even in the days that you don't feel like. But if you have an objective, an desire, you'll do it and in the end you like enjoy the fact that you've done.

[Blarghonius]

@durdo00 Don't try to prove your point that something is important by drawing an analogy to something as pointless as sports.

[kenfo0]

@stramster1 it is a sin to pretend to be pious when you are not. I'd say reading the Bible doesn't have to be some somber, ugly experience. It is written in a way that's difficult for some people, because they get tied up in trying to memorize names and places that aren't of this time. Most of that is irrelevant. It is the underlying issue being described...the moral of the story...that needs to be learned. Context is FASCINATING when you get into it; like the "good Samaritan" story...

[stramster1]

@kenfo0 I agree with everything you said if I could change the words "a sin" to "hypocritical", the word "fascinating" to "horrific" and "good Samaritan story" to "the exodus story".

When the bible is read in context there is no hiding the horrors between it's pages eg: Exodus 22:18 how is it possible to take this social responsibility out of context and how many died because of it.

You may not pick and choose the bits you like. It need not be a somber and ugly experience, but it is.

[kenfo0]

@stram I don't get people like you stram. Why choose to spend your time looking for faults in something you find abhorrent? It isn't logical. You aren't going to change my mind...you have no idea who I am or what I believe...you THINK you do, but you don't. I find it BIZARRE that you picked E 22:18. Is it because you're a Wiccan? Maybe we can PM. There would not be enough room to do it on the vid. State YOUR case, not mine, ok?

[stramster1]

@kenfo0 I must read the texts, all of them,in order to speak intelligently on the subject. That is called intellectual integrity & is of value to me.

My goal is not to changer your mind but to think critically about the beliefs u hold. Any mind changing done is up to the individual.

I picked 22:18 as it is imposable to be taken out of context. Breaking off from Ox law and the penalties for rape or seduction of virgins the book reads "you shall not suffer a witch to live". Appropriate I thought.

[stramster1]

@kenfo0 You may PM me if you wish. I will be civil to civil questions and conjectures.

[clayhutchins]

@pricer5 You're correct, I'm not arguing that the Christian God is the right God or any of that. I'm simply saying it's not utterly illogical, incoherent, or irrational to call this first cause that has God-like characteristics, "God."

[rsolano60]

how do I know if it is sin not to read the quran? how do know it is sin not to read the bible? there is no logical reason to belive any of those books

[clayhutchins]

@rsolano60 It's logical to say there is a God. For example, all physical entity or quantity does not have the reason for its own existence in itself; it has to find its explanation outside of itself. There is no effect without a cause. When this is applied to the origin of the universe, there are two options: matter was either created by a transcendent being, or it just fortuitously sprung out of nothing. And there is nothing more irrational than the idea that something can come from nothing.

[pricer5]

@clayhutchins Here you said..."There are two options: matter was either created by a transcendent being, or it just fortuitously sprung out of nothing" How do you know that there are only two options? Is it not possible that there are other options that you havn't heard of or that we havn't discovered yet. Or what is so wrong with saying "we don't know!". With your first option, the transcendent being, why does it have to be a being? And I agree, something can't come from nothing..

[clayhutchins]

@pricer5 (1) It's not wrong to say "I don't know", unless simple logic can take you further than that conclusion. The universe either fortuitously sprung out of nothing, or it was caused by a transcendent being. This being could not also be an effect, otherwise the chain of cause and effects would keep going back forever - an infinite regress. There had to be a first cause that wasn't an effect. I call it a being because a being is simply a state of existence.

[pricer5]

@clayhutchins "The universe either fortuitously sprung out of nothing, or it was caused by a transcendent being"

Again, how do you know this, how do you know that there are only two possible scenerio's. How do you know there couldn't be other explanations that we havn't come across yet? As far as there being a first cause that was not an effect,sure I can agree with that.But you are making a huge leap by saying that there was a cause, to saying that the cause was GOD. If you say God, which God?

[clayhutchins]

@pricer5 Those are the only possible scenarios because logically there only are two. The universe had to have had a beginning. Either something caused it (so it was created) or nothing did (it sprang out of nothing). To call this first cause "God" is by no means a stretch if you consider what the nature of this cause. It's transcendent, non-physical, doesn't play by our universe's rules, eternal, entirely self-reliant, powerful, able to create, and willing to create. Sounds like God to me.

[pricer5]

@clayhutchins Yes I agree that the universe had a beginning and had a cause which would of had to of been eternal,timeless etc.I wasn't disagreeing with any of that. I was saying that for you to then make the leap of faith and jump to the conclusion that it was God, is quite the step.I'm saying that whether or not this uncaused cause was God or not is something that we can say "I don't know".You havn't made a case for this particular Christian God of the Bible,only that the universe had a cause.

[clayhutchins]

@pricer5 (2) This being is transcendent - meaning it was not a part of our physical universe. Which makes it a non-physical entity. It also means that it doesn't have to abide by our physical universe's rules - since it doesn't even rely on it for its existence. This transcendent non-physical entity or being is also eternal. It also had to have had the power and will to create, otherwise nothing would have been created.

[clayhutchins]

@pricer5 So we have an eternal, transcendent, non-physical, non-contingent being that relies on nothing for its existence, and had the ability and will to create the universe. And we call this being "God."

[rsolano60]

@clayhutchins Well then, if everything must have an external cause, what is your transcendand being's external cause?... if it doasn't need one, then why not save a step and say that the energy at the big bang (ther was no matter) doasn't need an extarnal cause?

We could actually have a universe out of nothing, there is a rational explanation in youtube by the renown Phisicist lawrence .

[clayhutchins]

@rsolano60 Give me the simple, basic, most compelling facts and evidences that led you to believe that something can come from nothing. And if you can't do so without checking back to the 64 minute video of Lawrence, it further proves you weren't really convinced of anything.

[vico100]

Great!

[ConquerorElagabalus]

if you want to keep yourself a faithful christian, you should stay as far away from the bible as possible, you will be really disappointed lol

[boywhoy88]

@ConquerorElagabalus A faithful christian reads the bible because it is the word of God. It has everything a christian needs in it. Without the bible how are you going to keep the commandments? Sin equals hell and hell is waiting. Hell is forever, our souls are forever. I suggest you ask Christ into your heart and read the bible to get what to do. He is waiting and hell is waiting. May God open your eyes.

[wcr4]

The questioner sounds a bit like Microsoft Sam