Irish Blasphemy

[Pushtrak]

Very strange religious ideas. Definitely so. I speak from seeing it on a daily basis. I'm a big opponent to Catholicism specifically and religion in general. But even the more religious people are being vocal against the catholic church.

The way the religion came about was, as you said Dermot Ahern. There was a blasphemy law in the constitution, which was only brought to court once. That one time the person wasn't found guilty as they couldn't define what was blasphemous.

[Pushtrak]

@Pushtrak Instead of bringing about a referendum and take the law out, Ahern decided to add crap to it in the form of the fine. He did say on RTE TV that he wished a referendum to take place on the issue when the country was in a state where it could afford it. And it came across by the way he was talking that he'd like the law removed.

I'm looking forward to that referendum coming up, and should the negativity towards Catholicism be strong at the time of the referendum, the blasphemy law could

[Pushtrak]

@Pushtrak be removed, which I am hopeful for, obviously.

[oregand]

The reason this law was enacted was due to a constitutional requirement, a simple referendum on the subject would render the need for such laws as void. I agree that religious freedoms should be guaranteed by the state, however free speech should surpass the right of a religious group not to be insulted.

[theshapethe]

I am an Atheist in Ireland...and ironically I work for the Catholic church. Thanks for highlighting this law. But please understand that we are a 1st world country and on a day to day basis this law has made no difference at all...we're not backward...that's just one bad law.

Thanks for highlighting the issue.

[fetalbetal]

I'm an American Irish blooded anti-theist.. why work for the Church? Also, are you vocal or secretive?

[RationalConclusion]

An englishman, scottishman and irishman were walking through an irish town.

Suddenly a car came speeding down the high street, mounted the pavement and killed a young woman right in front of them.

"Bloody hell" said the englishman.

"Jesus Christ!" said the scottishman.

The irishman wasted no time and darted to the nearest phone box to call the emergency services.

Shocked and stunned at what he had just witnessed he grabbed the reciever and dialled 999.

...continued

[RationalConclusion]

"Hello emergency services" says the operator.

"Put me through to the police right away" said the irishman. "I want to report two counts of blasphemy...oh and get an ambulance down here while you're at it.

[Fiocle]

no offense but i find this video boring..

[kylejones7]

ireland will follow the path of britain, islamicized. I feel sorry for both.

[OpeningSalvoe]

...me, but say what you want about Ireland, as bad as things are here at the moment, I don't think there's any denying that the situation currently is far worse in britain.

[OpeningSalvoe]

...forget former home secretary Jacqui Smyth trying to have the term "islamic terrorism" redefined as quote "anti Islamic activety" ffs David Cameron is also quoted as saying that it's not up to muslims to adapt to british society, it's up to british society to adapt to muslims. There's also been no moves made by Rowan Williams to investigate the two thousand plus, alledged cases of sexual abuse and rape within the Anglican church. This blasphemy law is bullshit, you'll get no argument from...

[OpeningSalvoe]

...makers of dispathches who were almost charged with that very crime. Then there was the muslim guy who had a job working in a Tescos somewhere in England stacking shelves, but flatly refused to handle any alchohol, so he was sacked, so he successfully sued his former employer for thousands of pounds. A sikh who joined the mets riot squad was aslo sacked for refusing to remove his turban and wear a helmet, and he also successfully sued his former employer for £60,000 and let's not...

[OpeningSalvoe]

...crippled by political correctness, a desire to appease religious groups, particularily muslims, and not to offend them, let's not forget what happened to the film crew from Channel 4's Dispatches, who while undercover, filmed that Muslim cleric preaching race hate to his congragation in that mosque in the West Midlands or wherever it was, something that is apparently a crime in britain, or so i'm told, but instead of the preacher being arrseted for inciting racial hatred, it was the...

[OpeningSalvoe]

...Coz even God knew they couldn't be trusted in the dark. That one was always floating around the school yard when I was a kid, plus you don't do yourselves any favours by having so many gay TV personalities and characters in your sitcoms, Graham Norton would probably never have gotten his career on the box off the ground in Ireland. Anyway, this is a symptom of a much bigger problem, this isn't an Irish problem, it's a problem all over the western world, britain at the moment seems...

[OpeningSalvoe]

Should make sure you have your facts before you start making the video mate, instead of keeping us waiting. Stiff upper lip stereotype for the English, think ye let your lot off a bit easy there, what about the cliches about the English being sexually repressed and even a bit fruity, American TV which has a tendency to type cast everyone, routinely portrays the English as effeminate and a bit AC/DC if ye know what I mean, hence the old joke, "Why did the sun never set on the British empire?...

[VictoriaFalls12]

Hi, brilliant video. Thanks for the info.

[themanofearth]

BRAVO!

I used to live in Limerick. I love Ireland and hate to see something in that country go to shit like this. It'll back fire when what's happening in England happens in Ireland. Some one will insult Islam if they (hopefully don't) get bombed like London in front of a Muslim and they'll get pinched. Everyone who's applauding now (Christian) will go "HEY wait a minuet!"

And then they'll have to repeal it or be openly bigoted enough to make the law into anti-Christian blasphemy law.

[wildgrown]

The conventional wisdom is wrong in this instance. The law is likely being put in place in order to assuage the feelings of Muslims, but even this has not been demanded by Muslims. It is rather due to the PC/multiculturalist ideology of the EU and the modern liberal west. Could someone in Britain denigrate Mohammed and get away with it? No. The additional protocol to the Cybercrime Treaty will formalise this in EU law. Just as Jack Straw tried to make it a crime to criticise homosexuality.

[Torchmark]

I'll say what the fuck I want and if any cunts threaten me with the gardai and a lawsuit.

BRING IT ON YOU MISERABLE HYPOCRITE CUNTS!!!

[wildgrown]

Usually when legislation of this kind is passed the European Commission has a hand in it. There is an EU-wide blasphemy law on the way. It is a proposed "Protocol" (i.e. extension) to the Cybercrime Treaty which provides for "the possibility to limit the criminal offense to behavior aimed at a group of people or a member thereof on the basis of race or religion." Google 'Additional Protocol to the Convention on cybercrime' and click on the top link.

[wildgrown]

The Catholic Church did not call for this law nor did any other religious group in Ireland so it's a strawman argument to say that religious people are demanding the right not to be offended. I'm Catholic and I do not support the Defamation Bill. Google 'International Free Press Society' to read an interesting article about the blasphemy law.

[Darwinsgift]

Atheist conspiracy theory it is then!

[kevrs2]

@Darwin's Gift i think your coming at this from the wrong angle ,these people that made this law are not stupid ,they know exactly what they are doing ,this is about islam, and not upsetting them ,this is like a nod to them saying we the GOVT are on your side ,so please dont be blowing anything up as we cant afford to fix it ,as the country is bankrupt:))

[vulcan1981]

Just a thought, what does the Irish man cliche have to do with any of this???

[Darwinsgift]

When blasphemy laws are considered necessary then it proves to me that the cliche still exists!

[wildgrown]

No Darwinsgift, it's not a conpiracy theory. One of the unfortunate side effects of the rise in conspiracy theorising is that people are becoming unable to discern between true and false information. Thus true information that is little-known or sounds outlandish is presumed by intelligent people to have been dreamt up. Ask your MEP about the Cybercrime Treaty.

[Torchmark]

and fuck the what does cybercrime have to do with blasphemy? what are these beaurocrats?

[OpeningSalvoe]

eh don't you have those ridiculous anti race hate laws in britain, where's the difference, as I fail to see it? The british government seems both weak aswell as stupid to me right now, it's just crippled by political correctness.

[Darwinsgift]

You will get no argument from me either about the rotten parliament that we now have in Britain and much of the western world. To be honest I couldn't care less about a Gay image as I have never had any reason to hate Gay's, they simply do not bother me or concern me as they do not try and pass laws to stop heterosexuals. Pedos are a different matter! Blasphemy however is just nonsense!

[vulcan1981]

Im a proud Athiest and Irish man, and im disgusted at the behaviour of the religious institutions. Unfortunately the Catholic church still has massive power here, and has allot of influence on the government.

[superfisto]

5/5

[Pippitypopify]

Im neither Atheist or Catholic im in between. u can not blame people for having beliefs that have been shoved down their throats. but even if i was strictly Catholic i would be against this law, its ridiculous. and its NOT just atheists who disagree with this law! so stop talking as if all religious people are stupid and ultra sensitive and as if they are the ones who came up with this law. cos it was the government who did it, and we have NO say in what those muppets do.

[Darwinsgift]

You may have no say in what they do but there is plenty you can do to highlight their mistakes and challenge stupidity Of course I highlight religious stupidity, that is what I do! If religion has a right to go unchallenged you get laws like this and end up in theocratic control. Think about it is all I ask!

[anutuk]

Also, pray tell: What do jokes about stupid Irish people have to do with Catholicism? Are you saying that they practice Catholicism because they're stupid? Do you think calling Irish people stupid is going to inspire them to oppose Catholicism? And, what does being a first world country who's done well in the economic climate have to do with anything? Many countries who have atheist religions are not first world countries. What about them? Do you think they're free of molestation?

[Darwinsgift]

Actually, there are no atheist religions! My point is that stereotypes may exist but are only minorities and should not be taken seriously. Religion is due to indoctrination from those who wish to control. My points on Ireland being a well run as a political country is the opposite to calling the Irish stupid! Chill out please! You do not have to like me but do not try to say that my message is the opposite of what it is!

[anutuk]

Actually, Darwinsgift, I do like you. I like you a lot. That's why I take the time to write you. And I understand your opinion about religions that indoctrinate for control. But, I'm respectfully informing you that you don't know everything. For example, most forms of Buddhism are about mind discipline by the self FOR achieving happiness. Buddhists do not worship a god or goddess or a patriarchy. I'm not saying what your message is. I was asking ?s. And, "Chill out" is my line.

[HolzFailer]

Most educated people regard Buddhism as a philosophy and not as a religion in the Abrahamic sense. Catholic Ireland is not Buddhist. These laws are not about preventing people from criticizing Buddhist philosophy.

You will get more respect if you keep your arguments relevant.

[Darwinsgift]

antuk - This was a nice reply! Even though Buddhism is probably not relevant! It seems "Chill out" is not a term that belongs to one person!

Peace!

[anutuk]

Buddhism is relevant because it's considered a religion by 500 million Buddhist people.

[Darwinsgift]

Buddhism is not relevant in the way it tries to earn respect but does not demand it. I simply meant that it is not relevant in this case. "Chill out" :)

[HolzFailer]

I'm *not* saying that this is Darwinsgift's point in the video, but it is well documented that higher religiosity goes hand in hand with lower levels of education. It's why the Tree of Knowledge was vilified. Otherwise, why not call it the Tree of Modesty?

Ireland is acting like a Third World country in enacting this disgusting law. How regressive!

I had heard that Ireland was moving away from Catholic Chains. Is this a fundie control-attempt?

[HolzFailer]

"Molestation"? Are you referring to the Catholic clergy's horrific record of pedophilia? Demanding celibacy of priests will attract pedophiles rather than men who prefer adult women and want a family life. Tell wanna-be-priests that prayer cures perversions, and you'll be overrun. Shelter pedophiles by shifting them from diocese to diocese, and your hypocritical church will eventually be exposed to justified criticism. Pushing for religion-protective laws will probably backfire. Let's hope.

[1rishShaman]

Thanks once again for the shout out. I had friends over and couldn't watch the entire video, just skimmed. The law is a little better defined now... but still not that exact. If you offend the religious beliefs of a group of people and they complain, you can be punished with a fine of up to the reduced €25,000 amount. It goes for every religion present under that definition, except for groups that outright ask for money, scientology etc.

- Paul M.

[Darwinsgift]

Paul I have a plan to phone the Justice Ministry to see if they will approve atheist banners before they are published in order to gain approval before publication which would put the blame back on them if approved! If enough of us pester with questions it will drive them mad! Do you know a number I can try to get the ball rolling?

[1rishShaman]

If you want to get in contact with someone who is actually attempting to organise a blasphemous statement and test the law, Michael Nugent from Atheist Ireland himself. Just go to a search engine and look for "Atheist Ireland Forum" and his username is Michael Nugent He is the main speaker in all the Atheist Ireland videos I upload as well as in the radio interviews.

[mp9yq9tx]

Telling someone they are immoral and live meaningless lives and deserve no less then eternal torture because they do not knee at the feet of an imaginary dictator is about as offensive as it gets.

[HolzFailer]

And those theistic "arguments" are not only unconvincing, but they are utterly off-putting. Lots of moderate theists are disgusted by the nastier side of fundamentalist obsession.

[anutuk]

After living in many different cultures, I've learned that there are different kinds of awareness and intelligence. For example, one involves emotional energies and interdependence. Everyone is capable of experiencing this awareness but, educated people usually appear to be less aware. I've never been to Ireland so, I don't know what the awareness is like there. But, because you don't know it either doesn't mean it doesn't exit. Best Wishes, an Irish Eskimo raised by Mexican babysitters

[HolzFailer]

I think that 1rishShaman was votebotted by TWoJ because Paul documented Jordan's sockpuppet-votebotting scam: v=4SuWYMgQiXs

The votebotting happened within about 24 hours.

Having been caught out, Dodgy TWoJy then filed false DMCAs against several atheists and, in a ludicrous attempt to appear innocent, filed 2 false DMCAs against his own back-up channel. Some fundies are the most deceitful critters.

[Darwinsgift]

I agree that this may have brought him to the attention of voteboters, yet uncovering WoodsofJordan's scam is worth attention in its own right! LOL!

[HolzFailer]

I couldn't agree more. I'm not sure how Paul feels about the matter.

[1rishShaman]

Yea, stereotypes exist here in Ireland as well. Theres quite a lot actually. I'm lucky enough to miss quite a few, it's only certain areas that seem to churn out nutjobs but I was growing up close to one.

----- And no Atheism is not a religion. To take part in a religion you have to follow a god, we don't believe in any god so we are not in or part of a religion.

- Paul M.

[HolzFailer]

I think that there are two main routes to fundie-ism a) indoctrination, which is not necessarily a permanent affliction, and b) emotional or personality difficulties that make dogmatism appealing, and which are probably permanent afflictions.

I fully agree that lack of belief does not constitute a religion. It's ironic, and somewhat gratifying, that religions are running so scared as to be hopping into bed together. Fear leads to drastic measures -- legislation cometh before the fall.

[MunsterAtheist]

Hello there. I followed a link to your video from another channel. I'm Irish and I have no religious beliefs whatsoever. I appreciate your efforts to highlight the problems atheists in Ireland are experiencing. I hope to contribute to the atheist community on Youtube to a greater extent in the future, but for now I am happy to offer my support to anyone who stands up for science and reason in the face of these backward and shameful beliefs. Thanks again. Subscribed.

[AntiChristAntiFail]

no doubt. and sorry bout removing my messages, i had a brain fart that said they might not be a good idea so i deleted them.

All in all I DID enjoy my trip to Ireland, but the plan was that I made a full Euro-asian trip but after a health mistake i went back home.

My biggest regret is not realizing Ireland has better health care than America.

[AntiChristAntiFail]

Changing my messages on this page to this: I LIKE CAKE!

[GetMeThere1]

A word about the molestation scandals (from the perspective of how they played out in America): It's unfair (as much as I love it!) to characterize the problem as a church run by pedophiles. The real crimes of the CHURCH in America was the CONSISTENT and COORDINATED attempts of the church to hide the molestations, and to simply move the priests to new locations with ABJECT DISREGARD for the ongoing danger those priests presented to successive NEW flocks of innocent children.

[Darwinsgift]

Indeed this has been a crime of the Catholic church in some instances. The recently retired head of Catholics in England, Cardinal Cormac Murphy O'conor was responsible for moving a pedophile to Gatwick Airport where he was supposed to have been out of temptation, yet he was still convicted for molesting children! There seems to be something wrong with the Catholic clergy in general though!

[GetMeThere1]

"There seems to be something wrong with the Catholic clergy in general though!"

Have to agree there. Perhaps, in the past, becomming at priest was one way to keep a belly full. In this modern age, there must be quite a GRAND DISSONANCE in the mind of anyone who would sign on for the priesthood.....

[MunsterAtheist]

It would appear to be common practice within the Catholic church. I don't understand how they are allowed off the hook so easily. The perpetrators of the abuse in Ireland didn't even get named. Can you imagine any other area of society which operated a network of systematic child abuse NOT being named after such crimes were uncovered? It's an insult to the victims of such abuse aswell as a pandering to the almighty Catholic church.

[MunsterAtheist]

It makes me sick to my stomach to be a part of such a cowardly society.

[kurtilein3]

"The real crimes of the CHURCH in America was the CONSISTENT and COORDINATED attempts of the church to hide the molestations, ..."

they did it not just in the USA. there have been cases in germany as well, guess what? the roman catholic church tries to cover it up and use a wall of silence as defense each time. same with cases in austria. then there is the UK. what about abuse done by missionaries in third world countries?

they try to cover it up whenever and whereever it happens.

[Killersepp]

Speaking of free speech:

What would, hypothetically, happen to an englishman who said "I think the queen is a soggy old cunt and I hope she dies", or something simillar?

I don't want to snark or anything, I'm really curious.

[TheEnglishAthiest]

nothing there is no laws against insulting the king or queen in thr Uk

[Killersepp]

OK, thanks, that's what I wanted to know. Because some countries still do have such laws (Spain, for instance).

[Darwinsgift]

Although there is no law that would cover this it would however not be recommended if you would like to remain popular with the public. Prince Charles is often an object of fun but the Queen still holds great respect by keeping her mouth shut. This often makes her seem a bit boring though!

[1rishShaman]

Awesome, thank you for the shout out. I'm going to be calling the Atheist Experience tomorrow (Sunday 26th July 2009) to give an update on the whole situation, including what led up to the law being passed.

 Theres a bunch of clips from the Atheist Ireland meeting from the 11th July 2009 is also on my channel, where it was discussed in detail.

Thanks once again,

- Paul M.

[magick205]

@DarwinsGift: Unfortunately, this is becoming the norm in all the nations of Europe, as well as the US and Australia. It's all part of the surviellance culture. The control of the internet as well as other venues of free speech is the first step in the creation of a totalitarian society. Ever see the movie "V for Vengance"? We're well on the way to that place. Find out about the Electronic Frontier Foundation for more info about your eroding rights!

[Darwinsgift]

If the New Atheist movement has any purpose then surely it is to combat these injustices! I have a V for Vengeance mask but I'm saving it for a future video! I'm still working on the voice! LOL!

[kurtilein3]

it undermines freedom of speech.

basically, the law says that there is an area of public discourse where freedom of speech needs to be sacrificed (suspended, destroyed, whatever) for some "greater good" (religious warm fuzzy feelings, dreams of theocracy, whatever).

[Killersepp]

Germany has a blasphemy law that is worded alomst exactly the same as the new irish one, only with the added caveat "...sufficent to disturb public order" - so not quite as harsh, but still clearly a suppression of free speech.

And simillar laws exist all over Europe (Spain, Poland and Italy come to mind, especially). So while I don't intend to defend this moronic law in any way, I find it a bit problematic to single out the Irish for something that is sadly all too common.

[MunsterAtheist]

The ironic thing about this is that from what I gather, the crime of blasphemy was copied from British law and added to the Irish Constitution and in 2008 Britain removed the crime of blasphemy while the Irish Government decides to define the crime in the statute books only a year later. It's a completely backwards step in my opinion. Suppression of free speech is unfathomable in a western democracy in the 21st century.

[kurtilein3]

killersepp:

irelands laws are most draconic, because it doesnt need to cause any harm, it is in itself illegal. and then they can search your home, and if they find blasphemous books like the god delusion or even blasphemous videos you made... then thats evidence, they will take it and it will be used against you in court.

in germany, a search warrant with the only intention to search for blasphemous material would be unthinkable. in ireland, its now law. i think thats quite extreme.

[VonCarlsson]

These kinds of laws is a blow against the very foundation of democracy: freedom of speech. I cannot understand how they were thinking when they approved such a law, virtually silencing a whole minority, limiting science and so forth and so on. What even more shocking is that this is a trend that spreads like wildfire throughout whole of Europe.