Dude that coin is real, you are using the caliper completely wrong. first off its not level on the coin, second its not on the highest point of the coin and third digital calipers suck. you are much better off using a regular caliper that does 1000ths of an inch.
...notice how the bottom edge of the caliper didnt reach the bottom of the coin when he measure thickness....so it didnt catch the RIM..which is the measure of thickness. Secondly...use your head doofus....a fake that weighs in correctly would be OVERSIZE (unless using something MORE dense than gold...doubtful. Your diameter was off 4/100ths of a MILLIMETER (normal variance) and you failed to measure thickness correctly with the caliper being improperly positioned off the bottom rim.
This doesn't make any sense. If this coin had a 37mm diameter and a 2mm thickness, as the uploader of the video suggests as the correct dimensions, its volume would be 2150 cubic mm - or 2,150cc. For the 31,1g weight, its density would be 14,465. Pure gold density is 19,32...
@TheAllSeeyingGuy the coin is only 400ths of a millimeter off in diameter and it weighs a full 31.1 grams....it ISN'T a counterfeit, and according to the Austrian Mint, 1.65-2.0mm IS within parameters of a true Philharmonic.....
@EvanQuinn07 Counterfeiting phils would be impossible anyway. You would have to use a tungsten core (tungsten itself is too brittle to be stamped) and then gold plate it so thick that you can actually get a accurate image on the coin, the unique reeded edges would also have to be made perfectly.
The phil is actually one of the HARDEST coins to counterfeit, a Krugerrand (22k) would be a much smarter choice. It's counterfeit-proof if measured correctly, this coin wasn't measured correctly.
I don't think it's wise for non-professionals to buy solid metal for investment. We don't have the means to check out what we're buying. And it's not at all liquid. If we sell it we might have to pay to have it assayed. I've bought one ounce of gold in my life, ten years ago, to send to a cousin when her son was born, and that was only because his name is Troy, and I thought it was cute to give him something with his name on it.
Some websites indicate that ultrasonography can detect an adulterating bar placed in an ingot or coin. This is true as there's a discontinuity in density between the gold and the bar. I'm not sure how evident this would be if the bar were exactly the same density as gold; in metals, I believe sound velocity is determined by density, but there may be other factors. Putting in a bar (alloy of high and low density metals) with same density as gold might work. Electrical resistance testing next?
No, I am sorry for you. Tungsten is more dense than lead. The density of Tungsten (at room temperature) is 19.25 g·cm−3, the density for gold is 19.30 g·cm−3 and the density of lead is 11.34 g·cm−3. The standard atomic weight of lead (207.2u) is higher then Tungsten (183.84u) though. For reference the standard atomic weight for gold is 196.97u. One cubic-centimetre of tungsten at room temperature would weigh 19,25 grams, one cubic-centimetre of lead would weigh 11,34 grams.
Lead is slightly heavier than gold? To bad you are incorrect. Gold is about 70% heavier than lead, look up the density. Lead is a hair heavier than silver....
The thickness was measured incorrectly. You placed the caliper between the center of the coin, when it should have measured at the highest point of the coin, and that is the rim.
From your info it appears that the density of this allegedly fake coin is greater than that of gold! That is quite amazing! I am curious what metal was used to adulterate the coin to .900 fine gold.
in order for this coin to be fake, according to your stats, it would need to be made of a denser metal than gold; which makes no sence , since more denser metals are more expensive or radioactive, and therefore illegal to own.
@patricknikolausley I know about tungsten. Tungsten is increadibly hard and very difficult to machine; does not have the chime gold has, and is silver in color (cannot be alloyed to change color). It has been used inside gold bars to fool buyers, but never in coins, not worth the time or effort.
How is this a fake coin, if it weighs the same, the diameter is the same. How can it be thinner, if another alloy was put in, basically every stable alloy is lighter than gold. So if you put a lighter metal in it, and the width is smaller, it would be lighter not the same! Me thinks the guy crushed the coin a little bit with the tool since gold is soft, and it was off by a little bit, or just measured it wrong.
@enacku you are correct..BUT you look silly when you try to suggest this little tool can crush the gold!! You cant crush gold with your bare hands. If it was a vice, that would be different. I didn't understand why it was thinner either. oh well. Hopefully a coin dealer would still accept it !
@enacku Iridium is much denser (at about 22.6g/cm3) than gold (which is at about 19.3g/cm3). And the fact that iridium is dirt cheap when compared to gold doesn't help in this case...
I'd love to see the "proof" of the .900 fine that you mention.
This appears to be a completely legitimate coin. You completely misused the tool and did not measure the coin's depth at its thickest point.
I'd also like to know how someone went through the trouble for a multi million dollar engraving machine, the foundry equipment and alloy metals just to make a 'fake' coin that's worth about 10% less than the real thing.
@LeahcimWolf THAT'S what I think too....the Phil IS REAL...the dimensions are not that far off, EVERY coin IS NOT going to be the same .....IF you want to measure it down into the hundredths & thousandths of a millimeter, THOSE are VERY SMALL allowances.... and WHY would ANYONE make a 90% GOLD fake coin copy of a .999 gold coin? ...lol LOOK at the counterfeit coins now, they either have little or NO gold OR silver in them.....a 90% GOLD Fake coin...LMAO
I assume this video uebkSwsmkyg comes from the same coin. I would be willing to pay spot for the coin. I'm sur it was legit. Some people with tools are very dangerous.
So if this coin is thinner than it is supposed to be, but weighted the same, then the actual metal used should be much denser than gold. No stable element has this density.
@orangedac Yes, tungsten is heavier and uranium also, but they dont look anything like gold, so it is impossible to make so big difference in wight by just adding small amounts of tungsten.
Maybe he just took the measurement from the center of the coin where it is thinner, not from the corner, where it is fattest?
So if this coin is thinner than it is supposed to be, but weighted the same, then the actual metal used should be much denser than gold. No stable element has this density. "
Hey i watched this vid...got a question. Have a 1oz Phil...weight and diameter match 100% (31.1 and 37). Thickness is 1.91
What do u guys think (design etc. 100% accurate).
Is there tolerance that u need to be aware of with gold coins when looking at measurements? I got a bunch of krugs and know they r 100% real yet all of them r slightly different in thickness as well....average about 0.08mm.
@sfinder6969 this video is BOGUS, the Phils are genuine, the differences involved are so small it's ridiculous to think the coins are anything but Gold, as long as the coin WEIGHS 31.1 gms, AND the width and diameter are not way off, NO coin is EXACTLY alike, I actually emailed the Austrian Mint, and was told 1.65mm diameter AND the coin weight of 31.1 gm IS good, sure 2mm is stated in the parameters, but thats the HIGH points of the coin, don't let this asshole fool you
Where was this coin purchased? If all markings and writing are in right place this a very sophisticated knock off using partial true gold? I would suspect mint. If the United States Treasury faked gold bars then it would be a small thing if a mint did it. The governments are trying to control the price and demand for real physical gold and if desperate could do any thing. Most knock off are made to fool the untrained eye. Much work and many hours went into the production off these coins.
I got some rounds on ebay a while back that I didn't like after doing a ring test. Sold em back to a coin shop later before that big pullback. Actually made a few bucks.
In the info box, it said that another coin from this batch assayed at just over 90% gold. The difference is sufficient to make a counterfeit worthwhile. Just have your Phillies measured for thickness. And, if you bought them from a reputable dealer, such as APMEX, you have nothing to worry about. They're aware of this sort of thing, and only buy from reliable sources, or carefully check secondary market purchases. Their reputation is on the line. =^[.]^=
Are you felling ok?. Heat and electrical conductivity tests would confirm what metal it's made from as, once again, they are standard measurements. It would have to be a very very very good fake to pass all of these tests.
If you drill into a coin and it turns out to be real then you've just ruined it, no?.
As the rest of us have clearly seen in this vid, the measurement test confirmed that it was a fake straight away.
Dude that coin is real, you are using the caliper completely wrong. first off its not level on the coin, second its not on the highest point of the coin and third digital calipers suck. you are much better off using a regular caliper that does 1000ths of an inch.
Greendawg001 1 month ago
sweet you made out nice! silver is da stuff
superhawkn 1 month ago
It's a Silver Philharmonic that's been Gold Plated...
ThomasCrown79 2 months ago
..listen to sound when the coin drops, it dosent sound like gold, a gold coin sounds rich when it PINGS
willZhatesU 2 months ago
look right to me, if you're convinced it's fake i'd be glad to take it off your hands.
anthcybo 3 months ago
and you really scratched it up real good at the end there too....as you mis-measured....congrats dummy.
jgmetals81 3 months ago
...notice how the bottom edge of the caliper didnt reach the bottom of the coin when he measure thickness....so it didnt catch the RIM..which is the measure of thickness. Secondly...use your head doofus....a fake that weighs in correctly would be OVERSIZE (unless using something MORE dense than gold...doubtful. Your diameter was off 4/100ths of a MILLIMETER (normal variance) and you failed to measure thickness correctly with the caliper being improperly positioned off the bottom rim.
jgmetals81 3 months ago
lol why does it sound so busy in the background? you making this videos in the middle of a fucking marketplace or something?
beuabez 3 months ago
send it to me
superhawkn 3 months ago
right of the bat you can tell its fake, when gold hits metal it sounds richer and clear.
Stupid ass got ripped of from 1.700$,... wow.
willZhatesU 4 months ago
There is a lot of FAKE chinese Panda's and coins of Yemen...
MysleZe 4 months ago
This doesn't make any sense. If this coin had a 37mm diameter and a 2mm thickness, as the uploader of the video suggests as the correct dimensions, its volume would be 2150 cubic mm - or 2,150cc. For the 31,1g weight, its density would be 14,465. Pure gold density is 19,32...
RicardoSS85 4 months ago
@RicardoSS85 A real phil is 37mm and 2 mm thick.
TheAllSeeyingGuy 4 months ago
@TheAllSeeyingGuy the coin is only 400ths of a millimeter off in diameter and it weighs a full 31.1 grams....it ISN'T a counterfeit, and according to the Austrian Mint, 1.65-2.0mm IS within parameters of a true Philharmonic.....
EvanQuinn07 3 months ago
@EvanQuinn07 Counterfeiting phils would be impossible anyway. You would have to use a tungsten core (tungsten itself is too brittle to be stamped) and then gold plate it so thick that you can actually get a accurate image on the coin, the unique reeded edges would also have to be made perfectly.
The phil is actually one of the HARDEST coins to counterfeit, a Krugerrand (22k) would be a much smarter choice. It's counterfeit-proof if measured correctly, this coin wasn't measured correctly.
TheAllSeeyingGuy 2 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I will give you 5 bucks for it
superhawkn 4 months ago
This couldn't have been fake. Even if this coin would have been made with the densest element known (Osium), it would have to be thicker than that.
This coin was about 17,5 % denser (according to the ruler) than a authentic gold philharmonic.
19320 x 1,175 = 22701 (alleged density of coin).
Densest element known: 22570 osium.
TheAllSeeyingGuy 4 months ago
I don't think it's wise for non-professionals to buy solid metal for investment. We don't have the means to check out what we're buying. And it's not at all liquid. If we sell it we might have to pay to have it assayed. I've bought one ounce of gold in my life, ten years ago, to send to a cousin when her son was born, and that was only because his name is Troy, and I thought it was cute to give him something with his name on it.
sukangeong 6 months ago
Comment removed
sukangeong 6 months ago
Some websites indicate that ultrasonography can detect an adulterating bar placed in an ingot or coin. This is true as there's a discontinuity in density between the gold and the bar. I'm not sure how evident this would be if the bar were exactly the same density as gold; in metals, I believe sound velocity is determined by density, but there may be other factors. Putting in a bar (alloy of high and low density metals) with same density as gold might work. Electrical resistance testing next?
sukangeong 6 months ago
Densities of gold and denser elements. Obviously, the two radioactive ones (U, Am) cannot be used, as they can be detected with radiation detectors.
Au (Gold) 19.32 g/cc
W (Tungsten) 19.35
Am (Americium) 18.84
U (Uranium) 20.2
Rh (Rhenium) 21.04
Pt (Platinum) 21.45
Ir (Iridium) 22.4
Os (Osmium) 22.6
sukangeong 6 months ago
The only way I'll believe that's fake is if you put a genuine coin next to it and show us in comparison.
badkid73 6 months ago
That's a real coin.
badkid73 6 months ago
That's a real coin.
badkid73 6 months ago
Thats a cheap ying pong vernier,about as accurate as a spud gun!!
Exsecratio 6 months ago
people are into this stuff ahha would have never guessed it would be a youtube video
thegenericusername 7 months ago
It is TRUE gold coin, not fake. It seems that you destroyed truly gold coin, youre hardcore man.
wroom12 7 months ago
@coinageboy
It could have been a gold/tungsten alloy.
havoc873 8 months ago
@havoc873 Tungsten is lighter than gold. It could simply be lead though.
ivanlagrossemoule 7 months ago
@ivanlagrossemoule
No, I am sorry for you. Tungsten is more dense than lead. The density of Tungsten (at room temperature) is 19.25 g·cm−3, the density for gold is 19.30 g·cm−3 and the density of lead is 11.34 g·cm−3. The standard atomic weight of lead (207.2u) is higher then Tungsten (183.84u) though. For reference the standard atomic weight for gold is 196.97u. One cubic-centimetre of tungsten at room temperature would weigh 19,25 grams, one cubic-centimetre of lead would weigh 11,34 grams.
havoc873 6 months ago
@havoc873 Sorry, I don't know why I said that. Must have just looked at the periodic table of elements (or whatever you call it).
Now I got a table with weights at ambiant temperature (not exactly the same as yours but still work), I see what you meant.
ivanlagrossemoule 6 months ago
Lead is slightly heavier than gold? To bad you are incorrect. Gold is about 70% heavier than lead, look up the density. Lead is a hair heavier than silver....
enacku 8 months ago
@coinageboy Don't forget iridium :)
DominateKiller6 8 months ago
That is a real Phil
ykltc 9 months ago
If it's fake, cut it open.
norxcontacts 9 months ago
Perhaps it was filled with osmium. Osmium is currently about a quarter the price of gold and is denser.
WelcomeToTheFreekSho 9 months ago
I hope you dont messure ALL coins like that?
Mentioning not wearing gloves and the sharp metal measuringtool
schuur10 10 months ago
I like the feature of the caliper that plays a cool Island song after detecting a false coin. "BeubpEUbupepbEBPUEupbupEBup-tish!"
walp86 10 months ago
I can see chocolate inside
cenargen 10 months ago 2
it´s not a fake coin
fereref 1 year ago
The thickness was measured incorrectly. You placed the caliper between the center of the coin, when it should have measured at the highest point of the coin, and that is the rim.
theonlyexpert 1 year ago 2
the only real test is the acid test
jhunted7667 1 year ago
I think that ring tone is what screwed it up.
ARBuilder1776 1 year ago
I'll buy this fake coin 50$ ok ?..
Oh, and if you have more, please tell me, I'll buy them as well :)
kevinz1985 1 year ago 2
you can already hear it in the beginning thats a fake , any prescious metal doesnt make that sound , it sounds too cheap for gold lol
280GTXXX 1 year ago
From your info it appears that the density of this allegedly fake coin is greater than that of gold! That is quite amazing! I am curious what metal was used to adulterate the coin to .900 fine gold.
purplefetus3 1 year ago
It seems like Original
turkwelt 1 year ago
in order for this coin to be fake, according to your stats, it would need to be made of a denser metal than gold; which makes no sence , since more denser metals are more expensive or radioactive, and therefore illegal to own.
day333 1 year ago
@day333 untrue tungsten
patricknikolausley 1 year ago
@patricknikolausley I know about tungsten. Tungsten is increadibly hard and very difficult to machine; does not have the chime gold has, and is silver in color (cannot be alloyed to change color). It has been used inside gold bars to fool buyers, but never in coins, not worth the time or effort.
day333 1 year ago
How is this a fake coin, if it weighs the same, the diameter is the same. How can it be thinner, if another alloy was put in, basically every stable alloy is lighter than gold. So if you put a lighter metal in it, and the width is smaller, it would be lighter not the same! Me thinks the guy crushed the coin a little bit with the tool since gold is soft, and it was off by a little bit, or just measured it wrong.
enacku 1 year ago 34
@enacku you are correct..BUT you look silly when you try to suggest this little tool can crush the gold!! You cant crush gold with your bare hands. If it was a vice, that would be different. I didn't understand why it was thinner either. oh well. Hopefully a coin dealer would still accept it !
ToyMaster83 1 year ago
@enacku tungsten
aybesee123 1 year ago
@enacku LOTS of fakes are going around by CHINESE. They are MASTER at it. No offense to Chinese people, but this is just the reality.
urkingod 10 months ago
@enacku Iridium is much denser (at about 22.6g/cm3) than gold (which is at about 19.3g/cm3). And the fact that iridium is dirt cheap when compared to gold doesn't help in this case...
DominateKiller6 8 months ago
@enacku Lead is slightly heavier than gold.
Would it not be possible to use an inner lead core?
elbazart 8 months ago
I'd love to see the "proof" of the .900 fine that you mention.
This appears to be a completely legitimate coin. You completely misused the tool and did not measure the coin's depth at its thickest point.
I'd also like to know how someone went through the trouble for a multi million dollar engraving machine, the foundry equipment and alloy metals just to make a 'fake' coin that's worth about 10% less than the real thing.
LeahcimWolf 1 year ago 7
@LeahcimWolf THAT'S what I think too....the Phil IS REAL...the dimensions are not that far off, EVERY coin IS NOT going to be the same .....IF you want to measure it down into the hundredths & thousandths of a millimeter, THOSE are VERY SMALL allowances.... and WHY would ANYONE make a 90% GOLD fake coin copy of a .999 gold coin? ...lol LOOK at the counterfeit coins now, they either have little or NO gold OR silver in them.....a 90% GOLD Fake coin...LMAO
EvanQuinn07 9 months ago 2
@LeahcimWolf
I assume this video uebkSwsmkyg comes from the same coin. I would be willing to pay spot for the coin. I'm sur it was legit. Some people with tools are very dangerous.
urgewrx 9 months ago
So if this coin is thinner than it is supposed to be, but weighted the same, then the actual metal used should be much denser than gold. No stable element has this density.
OsRaunio 1 year ago
@OsRaunio
there are stable elements heavier than gold. tungsten for instance has the approximate density of gold. (19.25 for tungsten vs 19.3 for gold)
assuming they are not using that rare earth metal, you raise a good point. how can it weigh 31.1g and still be that much thinner ??
its impossible. lead would make a fatter not a thinner diameter coin.
orangedac 1 year ago
@orangedac Yes, tungsten is heavier and uranium also, but they dont look anything like gold, so it is impossible to make so big difference in wight by just adding small amounts of tungsten.
Maybe he just took the measurement from the center of the coin where it is thinner, not from the corner, where it is fattest?
OsRaunio 1 year ago
@OsRaunio tungsten is not heavier tahn gold...they are nearly identical in weight...for what it might be worth
SuperEye2eye 1 year ago
@OsRaunio tungsten is not heavier tahn gold...they are nearly identical in weight...for what it might be worth.
This coin looks real to me
SuperEye2eye 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@SuperEye2eye
Why are you replying to me?
I said: "
So if this coin is thinner than it is supposed to be, but weighted the same, then the actual metal used should be much denser than gold. No stable element has this density. "
OsRaunio 1 year ago
@orangedac You can see a difference in the "response video" (watch?v=shIAFsMWAuA)
OsRaunio 1 year ago
Hey i watched this vid...got a question. Have a 1oz Phil...weight and diameter match 100% (31.1 and 37). Thickness is 1.91
What do u guys think (design etc. 100% accurate).
Is there tolerance that u need to be aware of with gold coins when looking at measurements? I got a bunch of krugs and know they r 100% real yet all of them r slightly different in thickness as well....average about 0.08mm.
Thanks
sfinder6969 1 year ago
@sfinder6969 this video is BOGUS, the Phils are genuine, the differences involved are so small it's ridiculous to think the coins are anything but Gold, as long as the coin WEIGHS 31.1 gms, AND the width and diameter are not way off, NO coin is EXACTLY alike, I actually emailed the Austrian Mint, and was told 1.65mm diameter AND the coin weight of 31.1 gm IS good, sure 2mm is stated in the parameters, but thats the HIGH points of the coin, don't let this asshole fool you
shanquilla562 1 year ago 4
And where is the video of cut in half???
Just buy 1/10 ounce gold.
TeunisD 1 year ago
weight should be 31.1 grams
diameter should be 37 mm
thickness should be 2 mm
orangedac 1 year ago
Where was this coin purchased? If all markings and writing are in right place this a very sophisticated knock off using partial true gold? I would suspect mint. If the United States Treasury faked gold bars then it would be a small thing if a mint did it. The governments are trying to control the price and demand for real physical gold and if desperate could do any thing. Most knock off are made to fool the untrained eye. Much work and many hours went into the production off these coins.
GovermentOfLies 1 year ago
@GovermentOfLies yep a bit like
the
SUPER Dollar
RainstormGB 1 year ago
@RainstormGB That's beautiful :D
xenomorph856 1 year ago
@RainstormGB Can we see the photos of the one that has been cut in half to show the secondary metal??
kookaburrakookaburra 3 months ago
I got some rounds on ebay a while back that I didn't like after doing a ring test. Sold em back to a coin shop later before that big pullback. Actually made a few bucks.
JOHNNYH8STHENWO 1 year ago
Mugged!
Ganbareg 1 year ago
"You have recently posted several comments.
Enter the text in the image to continue posting. "
Bummer
CTOL1 1 year ago
wow....i guess i should get mine checked too...:-? are they still gold?...just not as much?
skybirdbird 1 year ago
@skybirdbird
In the info box, it said that another coin from this batch assayed at just over 90% gold. The difference is sufficient to make a counterfeit worthwhile. Just have your Phillies measured for thickness. And, if you bought them from a reputable dealer, such as APMEX, you have nothing to worry about. They're aware of this sort of thing, and only buy from reliable sources, or carefully check secondary market purchases. Their reputation is on the line. =^[.]^=
Raycheetah 1 year ago
@Raycheetah i am afraid i bought this from ebay....a while ago...so....:-(
skybirdbird 1 year ago
@skybirdbird
Oog. Get that puppeh measured! ='[.]'=
Raycheetah 1 year ago
where was this purchased? thanks rainstorm.
fal2grace 1 year ago 3
They didn't cut it in half!
silverfuturist 1 year ago
@silverfuturist
that might have damaged the chocolate interior
orangedac 1 year ago
Dollars to donuts that coin's from a Chinese workshop. ='[.]'=
Raycheetah 1 year ago
@Raycheetah You're probably right there Cheetah. The Chinese have ALWAYS proven to be one step ahead.
WhyMeWhySilver 1 year ago
Huh. I have a Philharmonic 1oz gold coin, I think I going to look in to this a bit more myself...thanks
hiphopsocnroc 1 year ago
acid test, that will be the ultimate test
Enemyatthegates1 1 year ago
@Enemyatthegates1
Acid only tests the surface. Dimensions and weight are the best way to tell for coins because they are standard. Any deviations spells 'fake'.
ShillBasher 1 year ago
@ShillBasher ever hear of tungsten? they can get an acid test from the center of the coin
Enemyatthegates1 1 year ago
@Enemyatthegates1
Are you felling ok?. Heat and electrical conductivity tests would confirm what metal it's made from as, once again, they are standard measurements. It would have to be a very very very good fake to pass all of these tests.
If you drill into a coin and it turns out to be real then you've just ruined it, no?.
As the rest of us have clearly seen in this vid, the measurement test confirmed that it was a fake straight away.
ShillBasher 1 year ago