Arkle all the way - Flying bolt may have pushed himself but Arkle was probably in his prime when he injured his foot in the Whitbread and could well have gone on to gain a further gold cup .
Look at the still of Arkle above at 1'16. I sometimes wonder was he really a horse at all. There was just this imperious majesty about him. His gait and his head carriage, the very near twinkle in his eye all betray an almost human arrogance. It suggests that he knew he was unique and unmatchable.
over the years k.s has just been a very lucky horse with the amount of times he has crashed through fences...and fallen..heavily most other horses would not have been so fortunate...arkle raced at a time when fences were still testing..and yes he did make the odd mistake but overall lf k.s had raced back in the 60s he would have hit even more and fallen more if arkle was around now well it would have felt like a flat race for him....you make your own minds up who will down as the greater horse.
Pro Arkle camp! That phrase to me is so mystifying.The supremacy of Arkle over rivals in his sport surpasses the supremacy, as far as I know, of any sporting legend of four legs or two.Not even in flat racing do they have such a singular hero.I suspect the real problem on these pages is that either memories are not long enough or ages too short. When those among us who know how great Arkle really was see an echo of something even approaching his stature we will be the first to proclaim it.
Arkle v Flyingbolt ! in that putative 67 Gold Cup - the race to eclipse all races ! To make it more interesting we could ignore time and throw in Captain Christy interested, Kauto Star on form, Pendil concentrating, Carvill's Hill sane, Bright Highway sound, The Dikler as himself, Red Rum switched on around a park course, Dawn Run with brains, Best Mate in case everyone else falls, and just to fill up third spot behind Arkle and Flying Bolt, Mill House staying on his feet (he sadly didn't).
The big problem is the ratings and they just aren't reliable for the 1960s. I agree with tissue that once you look past Arkle, Mill House and Flyingbolt the rest of that eras chasers werent great. I certainly don't rate any of the horses who took Arkle on in the 66 Gold Cup and signs on if you watch the footage. But I still think that those three were something extra special just like Kauto, Denman and Long Run. I still give Arkle the edge over Kauto but not by 20lbs or anything like it.
@TissuePrices I don't have a problem with Arkle/Flyingbolt being rated the best, it's just the huge gap in the ratings between them and the rest that I think is too much. I disagree with you describing them as plodders. In fact on another video you said Desert Orchid was a plodder, which I find totally baffling. I got into racing in 1989 when Dessie was at the top of his game and for me he and Kauto Star are the 2 best 3m chasers I've seen. There is very little between them imo.
Arazi you and tissue make a fair point about the 1960s ratings. Its impossible to truly compare horses who lived 50 yrs apart. You can use achievements versatility who they beat as yard sticks but lets be honest its intuition and bias that makes our minds up for us. B.O.Fs like me are a bit too quick to automatically and unquestioningly declare the superiority of the 60s chasers and rubbish everything that's come since and then get upset when you guys turn around and take swipes at our heroes.
Hi crocketstown, yeah i agree with everything you've just said there. 'TissuePrices' has been going round most of these old video's of Arkle & Desert Orchid and completely dismissing them as useless plodders in comparison to today's top horses, which of course is total bollocks. Unlike him I respect what Arkle & Flyingbolt achieved and I realize why they are rated the best. It's just the huge gap in the ratings between them and the rest that I have an issue with.
Moscow Flyer is the best 2m chaser I have seen. He raced in a golden few seasons of 2m chasing against superb 2m chasers in Azertyuiop & Well Chief. Now, clearly what Flyingbolt achieved was great and he could very well be the best 2m chaser ever. However, according to Timeform's ratings he's 26lbs superior to MF. So we are to believe that Flyingbolt would beat MF by 26 lengths if they met on a racetrack. 26 lengths! Surely that's got to be just a bit unrealistic.
@Arazi124 I'd agree that 26 lengths is a bit unrealistic.Moscow Flyer was superb and as an Irishman I was absolutely besotted by him. My opinion is that with both at their best he'd have got to within ten lengths of Flyingbolt, maybe even down to seven.
arkle was the best of his time but if he raced todays goldcup he would finish tailed of probably pulled up, i promoise u this KAUTO STAR WOULD DESTROY HIM
@TissuePrices U R FUCKING JOKING KS HAS BEAT JACK SHIT , GI COMMANDER WON GOLD CUP HOW MANY RACES HAS HE WON SINCE , DENMAN HOW MANY RACES HE WON SINCE HE WON GOLD CUP , LONG RUN HOW MANY RACES HAS HE WON SINCE HE WON GOLD CUP , KS IS THE MOST OVERRATED HORSE EVA DESERT ORCHID WOULD DESTROY HIM U KNOW NOTHING ABOUT RACING U IDIOT
tissueprices i think u dont understand do you keep lookin at google to get the facts and weights that is not the issue here the fact is (look it up on google) the fences today are a lot smaller so gives the horse a better chance not to fall at the hurdle. i will wait another hour for your reply while you look it up
TISSUEPRICES lets get this straight the trainers wud not put there horses up to run against arkle cos they knew they wud lose POINT2 the fences of today my 6 yr old son can jump them better than todays horses can the fences back in the hey day was 1 and half foot taller. at least .look at the g national 2day red rum wud of won the national carrying 15 stone on his back and cud of stopped and waved at the crowd on the 1st circut. kauto wud not of got past the second fence against arkle fact
arkle 212, Flyingbolt, Arkle's stablemate, on 210, followed by a 19lb gap to Mill House, Kauto Star on 191. So we are being asked to believe that of the hundreds of thousands of steeplechasers to have raced since the mid-1960s, two were nearly a stone and a half better than all the others, and they just happened to occupy adjacent boxes.
It is not just very unlikely, It is many millions-to-one against – so implausible in statistical terms, in fact, that it is effectively impossible.
TISSUEPRICES dont talk crap arkle was the best race horse that ever lived why dont you look at the facts and ask a proper race lover like me and they will tell you the same FACT
@greeny0370 arkel ran in an incredible weak era, he face a total of 10 opponents to win his 3 gold cups, there was no depth to racing and his rating of 210 is a joke,
your telling me he could give Kauto & denman to a lesser exttent a 20/30 length beating ? no chance, you must be some old fudy dudy to belive the arkle myth, Kauto is the best
@TissuePrices U NOTHING ABOUT HORSE RACING , U TELL ME ONE DECENT HORSE HE HAS BEAT , I REMEMBER KS TRYING AND I MEAN TRYING TO GIVE MONETS GARDEN 19ILB HE GOT STUFFED HE WAS NEVER AND I REAPET NEVER CAPABLE OFF WINNING A RACE WHEN HE HAD TO CONCEDE WEIGHT FACT !!!!!!! U TELL ME WHEN HE HAS DONE THIS U CARNT COS HE NEVER NEVER HAS SIMPLE FACT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111
Pat Taffe always said that there was a stone between them and he would have known. Try getting a copy of his excellent book "My Life and Arkle's" now out of print (my copy is not for sale) from a good dealer. In it you will find the difinitive word on the subject. No doubt Flyingbolt is a forgotten great, but Arkle would have strode away from him up the final hill
while both were exceptionally good horses 212 and 210 is often considered inflated given you have to drop almost 20lbs for the next horse To think the two greatest horses out of hundreds of thousands came from the same small stable is mind bending. When you also think the NH ratings system was still in its infancy, then its often said the handicapper got carried away.
@grincher2006 arkle was that good - reason there was a handicap system when he ran and a different one when he did not and flying bolt beat horses over 2m-3m giving 3 stone away nothing can do that now.
Arkle all the way - Flying bolt may have pushed himself but Arkle was probably in his prime when he injured his foot in the Whitbread and could well have gone on to gain a further gold cup .
DPDOLBY 2 weeks ago
Arkle was the most exciting race horse I've seen in my lifetime.
dabrodrell 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
TissuePrices is a troll-ignore him/her/it.
dabrodrell 2 weeks ago
Look at the still of Arkle above at 1'16. I sometimes wonder was he really a horse at all. There was just this imperious majesty about him. His gait and his head carriage, the very near twinkle in his eye all betray an almost human arrogance. It suggests that he knew he was unique and unmatchable.
alipitogen 1 month ago
over the years k.s has just been a very lucky horse with the amount of times he has crashed through fences...and fallen..heavily most other horses would not have been so fortunate...arkle raced at a time when fences were still testing..and yes he did make the odd mistake but overall lf k.s had raced back in the 60s he would have hit even more and fallen more if arkle was around now well it would have felt like a flat race for him....you make your own minds up who will down as the greater horse.
pmus1 1 month ago
Pro Arkle camp! That phrase to me is so mystifying.The supremacy of Arkle over rivals in his sport surpasses the supremacy, as far as I know, of any sporting legend of four legs or two.Not even in flat racing do they have such a singular hero.I suspect the real problem on these pages is that either memories are not long enough or ages too short. When those among us who know how great Arkle really was see an echo of something even approaching his stature we will be the first to proclaim it.
alipitogen 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
Arkle v Flyingbolt ! in that putative 67 Gold Cup - the race to eclipse all races ! To make it more interesting we could ignore time and throw in Captain Christy interested, Kauto Star on form, Pendil concentrating, Carvill's Hill sane, Bright Highway sound, The Dikler as himself, Red Rum switched on around a park course, Dawn Run with brains, Best Mate in case everyone else falls, and just to fill up third spot behind Arkle and Flying Bolt, Mill House staying on his feet (he sadly didn't).
alipitogen 1 month ago
Comment removed
alipitogen 1 month ago
The big problem is the ratings and they just aren't reliable for the 1960s. I agree with tissue that once you look past Arkle, Mill House and Flyingbolt the rest of that eras chasers werent great. I certainly don't rate any of the horses who took Arkle on in the 66 Gold Cup and signs on if you watch the footage. But I still think that those three were something extra special just like Kauto, Denman and Long Run. I still give Arkle the edge over Kauto but not by 20lbs or anything like it.
crocketstown64 1 month ago
@TissuePrices I don't have a problem with Arkle/Flyingbolt being rated the best, it's just the huge gap in the ratings between them and the rest that I think is too much. I disagree with you describing them as plodders. In fact on another video you said Desert Orchid was a plodder, which I find totally baffling. I got into racing in 1989 when Dessie was at the top of his game and for me he and Kauto Star are the 2 best 3m chasers I've seen. There is very little between them imo.
Arazi124 1 month ago
Arazi you and tissue make a fair point about the 1960s ratings. Its impossible to truly compare horses who lived 50 yrs apart. You can use achievements versatility who they beat as yard sticks but lets be honest its intuition and bias that makes our minds up for us. B.O.Fs like me are a bit too quick to automatically and unquestioningly declare the superiority of the 60s chasers and rubbish everything that's come since and then get upset when you guys turn around and take swipes at our heroes.
crocketstown64 2 months ago
@crocketstown64
Hi crocketstown, yeah i agree with everything you've just said there. 'TissuePrices' has been going round most of these old video's of Arkle & Desert Orchid and completely dismissing them as useless plodders in comparison to today's top horses, which of course is total bollocks. Unlike him I respect what Arkle & Flyingbolt achieved and I realize why they are rated the best. It's just the huge gap in the ratings between them and the rest that I have an issue with.
Arazi124 2 months ago
Moscow Flyer is the best 2m chaser I have seen. He raced in a golden few seasons of 2m chasing against superb 2m chasers in Azertyuiop & Well Chief. Now, clearly what Flyingbolt achieved was great and he could very well be the best 2m chaser ever. However, according to Timeform's ratings he's 26lbs superior to MF. So we are to believe that Flyingbolt would beat MF by 26 lengths if they met on a racetrack. 26 lengths! Surely that's got to be just a bit unrealistic.
Arazi124 2 months ago
@Arazi124 I'd agree that 26 lengths is a bit unrealistic.Moscow Flyer was superb and as an Irishman I was absolutely besotted by him. My opinion is that with both at their best he'd have got to within ten lengths of Flyingbolt, maybe even down to seven.
alipitogen 1 month ago
tissueprices we will beg to differ m8
greeny0370 2 months ago
TISSUEPRICES AND HOW OLD ARE YOU 15
greeny0370 2 months ago
@greeny0370 personal insults mean you fail.
arkle was the best of his time but if he raced todays goldcup he would finish tailed of probably pulled up, i promoise u this KAUTO STAR WOULD DESTROY HIM
TissuePrices 2 months ago
@TissuePrices fuck off pea brain
sigmondball 1 month ago
@TissuePrices U R FUCKING JOKING KS HAS BEAT JACK SHIT , GI COMMANDER WON GOLD CUP HOW MANY RACES HAS HE WON SINCE , DENMAN HOW MANY RACES HE WON SINCE HE WON GOLD CUP , LONG RUN HOW MANY RACES HAS HE WON SINCE HE WON GOLD CUP , KS IS THE MOST OVERRATED HORSE EVA DESERT ORCHID WOULD DESTROY HIM U KNOW NOTHING ABOUT RACING U IDIOT
stevven69 1 month ago
tissueprices i think u dont understand do you keep lookin at google to get the facts and weights that is not the issue here the fact is (look it up on google) the fences today are a lot smaller so gives the horse a better chance not to fall at the hurdle. i will wait another hour for your reply while you look it up
greeny0370 2 months ago
TISSUEPRICES lets get this straight the trainers wud not put there horses up to run against arkle cos they knew they wud lose POINT2 the fences of today my 6 yr old son can jump them better than todays horses can the fences back in the hey day was 1 and half foot taller. at least .look at the g national 2day red rum wud of won the national carrying 15 stone on his back and cud of stopped and waved at the crowd on the 1st circut. kauto wud not of got past the second fence against arkle fact
greeny0370 2 months ago
@greeny0370
what a load of rubbish, your 6yr old can jump fences how tall is he 7'10?
are we seriously to belive that every aspect of life has improved except for horse racing?
TissuePrices 2 months ago
arkle 212, Flyingbolt, Arkle's stablemate, on 210, followed by a 19lb gap to Mill House, Kauto Star on 191. So we are being asked to believe that of the hundreds of thousands of steeplechasers to have raced since the mid-1960s, two were nearly a stone and a half better than all the others, and they just happened to occupy adjacent boxes.
It is not just very unlikely, It is many millions-to-one against – so implausible in statistical terms, in fact, that it is effectively impossible.
TissuePrices 2 months ago
TISSUEPRICES dont talk crap arkle was the best race horse that ever lived why dont you look at the facts and ask a proper race lover like me and they will tell you the same FACT
greeny0370 2 months ago
@greeny0370 arkel ran in an incredible weak era, he face a total of 10 opponents to win his 3 gold cups, there was no depth to racing and his rating of 210 is a joke,
your telling me he could give Kauto & denman to a lesser exttent a 20/30 length beating ? no chance, you must be some old fudy dudy to belive the arkle myth, Kauto is the best
TissuePrices 2 months ago
@TissuePrices U NOTHING ABOUT HORSE RACING , U TELL ME ONE DECENT HORSE HE HAS BEAT , I REMEMBER KS TRYING AND I MEAN TRYING TO GIVE MONETS GARDEN 19ILB HE GOT STUFFED HE WAS NEVER AND I REAPET NEVER CAPABLE OFF WINNING A RACE WHEN HE HAD TO CONCEDE WEIGHT FACT !!!!!!! U TELL ME WHEN HE HAS DONE THIS U CARNT COS HE NEVER NEVER HAS SIMPLE FACT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111
stevven69 1 month ago
These horse do not compare to Kauto, Kauto is the best had no chinks in his armour.
Arkle would struggle to beat Nacarat
TissuePrices 2 months ago
its so true would like to have seen kauto star giving away weight in hennessy like these horses did in practically every race they ran in ........
Mr75littlebay 3 months ago
any idea where i can find some clips of flyingbolt? cant fine any anywhere.....
28musky 3 months ago
Pat Taffe always said that there was a stone between them and he would have known. Try getting a copy of his excellent book "My Life and Arkle's" now out of print (my copy is not for sale) from a good dealer. In it you will find the difinitive word on the subject. No doubt Flyingbolt is a forgotten great, but Arkle would have strode away from him up the final hill
arkleno1 3 months ago
In my opininon, the handicapper isn't miles away.....At the Gold Cup distance?
I have no doubt that "Himself" was the best.....Some good ones since.....and lest we forget....before too......X
Notstrongbow 7 months ago
while both were exceptionally good horses 212 and 210 is often considered inflated given you have to drop almost 20lbs for the next horse To think the two greatest horses out of hundreds of thousands came from the same small stable is mind bending. When you also think the NH ratings system was still in its infancy, then its often said the handicapper got carried away.
grincher2006 10 months ago
@grincher2006 arkle was that good - reason there was a handicap system when he ran and a different one when he did not and flying bolt beat horses over 2m-3m giving 3 stone away nothing can do that now.
shaolin69ninja 7 months ago
Thanks! can't get enough of these old races would appreciate anything more you have being posted.
FIST2k8 1 year ago
thank you flying bolt was some good horse too
sarsfield7 1 year ago