How long do the 45 million wait? I needed rotator cuff surgery, diagnosed in late august of 09, had an appointment in oct. When I asked for a different surgeon of my choice, I accepted the extra wait until march of 2010. Surgery was in early july and I feel great. As a Canadian I didn't have to pay for this. The system isn't perfect but neither is the US profit over people mentality. Wake up America . You have always deserved better.
@nevrgreen - The 45 million is a bogus figure trumped up by the socialist politicians that want to see our health care system deteriorate to one similar to yours. Get your facts straight before slinging mud on your southern neighbors, aye. Pay attention, profit, competition and the free market system is what improves life for the masses, not the government run bureaucracies, aye. Step away from the Kool Aid and think for yourself.
@jackruthjess Whether it is 45,35, or however many million your trumped up number is, there are or were Americans who don't have health care. My comment pertaining to my surgury is a fact, straight up. While the free market system can and does improve peoples lives it has proven to be flawed with respect to health care. The deaths and bankruptcies prove it.
Of course Canada & Europe can pay thru the nose for health care - who will they turn to when they need to be rescued from another tyrannical dictator- the Danish army? The Canadian marines? The Swedish navy? Please. The US has to pay for a strong military to save the rest of the world from its own stupidity. Europe is going BROKE from its social welfare programs. If you don't want to keep most of the money you make then sure, you can have your "free" healthcare.
@castillianwagon500 No it certainly does not unless you mean it osunds like the type of care given to medicaid patients, then ys, so when the whole country is on medicaid then yes itwill be just like this.
That's blatantly false, hospitals have to treat whoever walks through their doors in an emergency. Also, America has 6000 public clinics where anyone can go for treatment.
Canadians want a "free" system, and we love our health care system... until we use it. If I ever get sick with a serious illness, I'm headed south for treatment. Alongside thousands of other Canadians.
@jellofuel Sorry jello, you are the minority. Recent polls show support for our Universal system at 90%, and satisfaction of the care we receive at 88%. Its a myth that thousands of Canadians go south for care. You do realize that millions of Americans go abroad to other countries, like Canada, for WAY less expensive care. Who cares about that 60% of bankruptcies there are related to medical bills. Who cares that a Harvard Study saying 45,000 Americans die every year due poor access to care.
@jellofuel And true, hospitals in the States can turn away patients, but they are only mandated to treat and stabalize. Any further, ongoing care, is NOT provided. Not to mention the fact they are billed for the care they receive. Here's a thought for you...move!
And btw, the Mayo clinic said Holmes had RCC not Cushing's. Here's the link to prove it. Right from the mayo clinics website. She did NOT HAVE A TUMOUR!!!
The only waiting lists in America is if you're on a public system. But the existence of the public insurance program makes private plans more expansive because the public program only pays for 60% of the actual cost of the treatment. Apparently, we're in a similar position.
I know, I know, freedom isn't exactly cherished by liberals and socialists, but why does the government need to stick its nose in my business when I'M the one who should be buying a service from a private practice?
@jellofuel It is well know that people who cannot afford healthcare have a waiting time of forever. Of course, they can always sell their home or go bankrupt. Sorry, Canadians don't want that.
And any healthcare decision I make is between my doctor and I. The insurance companies have far more control over the lives of Americans then our gov't does.
If we were to pay as we go, and according to our means, then the system would be in much better shape than it is now. Because what we have now... isn't working.
Keep in mind, you're talking to someone who's worked in a long term care home for 8 years. I've seen a lot: patients suffering, increasing costs, increasing standards, staff shortages, burns, etc.
No, she didn't. So far as I can remember, from actually talking to her, she had some serious problems with her pituitary gland. She saved her own life, because the doctors here disregarded the Mayo Clinic's diagnosis. the Mayo Clinic!
Ok, I have a resident at work who's been waiting a year for a hernia operation. He will probably be with us another year or so.
Our system is imploding, that's why you see all these measures from McGuinty trying to reduce costs, like drugs.
@jellofuel Holmes claimed she had a tumour that if she didn't get removed, she would have died. Holmes was diagnosed with Rathke’s cleft cyst, a rare, benign cyst that forms near the pituitary gland. It’s not known to be fatal. A quote from a Montreal surgeon about her case: Dr. Rolando Del Maestro says "If it’s a real emergency in the sense that the patient’s visual function is getting substantially worse, the patients would be brought in immediately and would be operated on the next day,’
@MadHabber93 Holmes optometrist states that her vision was deteriorating quickly. And it was a pituitary problem; her actual diagnosis is only known to her, and isn't on wikipedia. Rathke's cleft cyst though, is an improper diagnosis.
Well, apparently, he is waiting for it.
Health costs are rising in Ontario faster than the rate of inflation. If the rate stays the same, health spending will blot out other program spending. We spent 45 billion health care last year:
@jellofuel Healthcare costs are rising everywhere, let alone Ont. How do you perceive to lower costs, bring in more private care that costs more?
It's been widely publicized what Holmes was treated for.The cyst formed near her pituitary gland, causing the vision problem. Holmes still claims that she would have died from it. Fredric Meyer M.D., chair of neurosurgery at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn., responded in a statement that "RCC is a benign lesion & is NOT typically life-threatening."
@MadHabber93 Partial privatization would allow doctors to charge more or less for their services and bring more doctors to the industry. I mean, after the boomers retire we're screwed.
She has a youtube channel shonaholmes3. RCC is wrong. Period. And that neurosurgeon is an idiot for breaching confidentiality and for ignoring vital symptoms.
The problem with our system is access. The supreme court already stated that access to a waiting list isn't access to health care.
@jellofuel I could care less if you she has a youtube channel, she lied. PERIOD. And its still only one case, which does not damn an entire system. How does charging more or less bring more doctors to our system?? Answer. It doesn't. More privitization will skim doctors from the public system into the private system, thereby increasing wait times for the majority and decreasing for the few. This is what happened in Australia. We still have better access than Americans.
@MadHabber93 She DIDN'T lie. Her case does show there's no choice in our system though.
Market forces. Legitimate competition is the only way to reach equilibrium, and that's where everyone gets what they want. The truth about our system is that it's deliberately underfunded. Our hospitals have an average deficit of 150 million bucks. We have waiting lists where people suffer without end. We pay outrageous taxes, and for what? Equality? Great, we can all suffer together.
@jellofuel She claimed in the t.v. commericial that she had a BRAIN TUMOUR, which she did NOT. She claimed she would have died, when both Canadian and American docs say she wouldn't have. She has a 100,000 reasons to lie, and that's to get that 100 grand back from OHIP. F that. Market forces don't work in healthcare. If it did, the U.S. would have the cheapest healthcare on the plantet, yet its the most expensive. Our taxes, although not low, are not outrageous.
@jellofuel As far as choice, she had plenty of them. She could have been referred to any other neurosurgeon in the province for another opinion. Instead, she goes to the Mayo clinic. What about the Montreal surgeon who said if she was starting to lose her eyesight, he would operate immediately? Most HMO's and insurance companies have restricted lists of what hospitals to use and what doctors they can see in the States. The fact you use the Holmes case to cherry pick a point is mind boggling.
@MadHabber93 She did attempt to see another surgeon, but there was only 2 or 3 of them, and she would (surprise surprise) have had to waited to see them for a consultation. Of course she had a brain tumor, whoever told you otherwise is a moron.
The Americans are plagued by insane civil suits damaging their system. They need tort reform, so patients can't sue practitioners for insanely high rewards.
If anything, I recommend a model like legal aid ontario. cont...
@jellofuel Ok, you've obvioiusly 'bought' her line that it was a tumour. In the might words of Arnold, "Its not a Tumor" How you don't see that, again, is mind boggling. Its ALL OVER the internet. She had a CYST. To believe otherwise is moronic. Now, there aren't 2 or 3 otherones in the entire province. And, if presented correctly by her own doctor, urgent cases are seen faster if not right away. That's how our system works, I've worked in it as well...for nearly 20 years.
@MadHabber93 This is childish. How exactly do you know her diagnosis? You don't, the only one who knows is Shona and she's suing the government. But she will tell you her symptoms and her actual condition.
There was only 2 others that could see her within a reasonable timeframe, and that was still in months.
Also, did you even watch the movie? lol
And how do you plan on dealing with our hospitals deficits? They're only cutting services after all.
@jellofuel It is silly. Every report has painted what she has been diagnosed with. You choose to ignore it. She has a BIG reason to lie, as like you said, she is suing to get her $100 grand back for getting a cyst removed. You are the only person who believes her and the only supporting her. Again, unless her vision is being impaired and its not a tumour, waiting is reasonable. Some hospitals have run deficits, not all. Wait times in the u.s. FOREVER. Canadians don't want it.
Ok, it was Cushing Syndrome, not RCC. I think she has a case regardless. We pay into an insurance program, which promises health care. We pay a lot for it, but when we go to use it, we're denied? How in the hell is that fair?
There are no waiting lists in American hospitals. If you're on medicare, maybe lol. But imagine, getting what you pay for. Inequality can eat sh!t as far as I'm concerned. Here's to freedom.
@jellofuel For the hernia, there is the Shouldice clinic outside Toronto that is a world leader in hernia repair. They have treated over 60,000 Americans, let alone countless Canadians, since its inception. My brother was treated there with very little wait time.
Our system is NOT imploding. There is no real evidence of it.
For McGuinty, for the record, he's a dick but he's right on reducing costs where we can. Lining the pockets of pharmacists is one way, while reducing generic drug cost.
Canada actually has a two-tier health care system. If you want "free" low-quality health care, go to your doctor, get put on a waiting list, and hope you survive the wait.
The private option is called "America." Simply go there, and pay a doctor to treat you.
@jellofuel Is that why countless Americans go abroad every year to other countries, including Canada, because they can't afford healthcare in the U.S.?? Canadians dieing on wait lists is a myth.
@MadHabber93 People like Shona Holmes would have died if she had stayed in Canada. I work in a nursing home in Ontario... I've seen people waiting months for simple treatments that no one waits for in America. It's inexcusable. Our system is imploding, according to the former and current president of the CMA.
Also, Ontario just released a new Long-Term Care Act, which looks to be negatively affecting residents already.
@jellofuel Shona Holmes LIED. She had a benign cyst that could NEVER go to cancer. She got screwed by the Mayo clinic by paying 100 grand to have a cyst removed, then tried to milk OHIP for it.
Give me an example of a 'simple' test that people are waiting for here.
Our system is not imploding, & our current CMA president's words were taken out of context. She FULLY supports Universal Care. The U.S. systems leaves millions behind, and results in 45,000 deaths every year due to lack of access.
@MadHabber93 No, she didn't. So far as I can remember, from actually talking to her, she had some serious problems with her pituitary gland. She saved her own life, because the doctors here disregarded the Mayo Clinic's diagnosis. the Mayo Clinic!
Ok, I have a resident at work who's been waiting a year for a hernia operation. He will probably be with us another year or so.
Our system is imploding, that's why you see all these measures from McGuinty trying to reduce costs, like drugs.
He indicates a dual private system will help us all. No it won't - there are dozens of researchers around the world who have noted that a rise in private insurance results in increased public wait lists and not shorten them. Why does this happen? If Canada switched to a dual private system tommorow, the fact remains - There are still 67,000 Dr's to do the procedures - No human resources have been created. Lets say a public Surgeons performs 100 surgeries/ year in ..........
....order for a private Dr. to offer faster care, he must perform less surgeries. If a private Dr has the same case load as his Public Counterpart then he cannot offer faster care. Less surgeries are performed overall, but the amount of people requiring surgery has not changed, so the people in the Public system wait even longer than before. This exact scenario has been taken place in numerous Countries and isn't some baseless theory. Timely care is given to who can pay - not who needs it more
Isn't it amazing how Canadians have some of the highest incidences of major diseases like Cancer and heart diseases, but have one of the longest life spans in the World - Unless we are performing surgeries on our selves it is clear that we have a good health system that provides timely care - Otherwise how is it possible with a nation with such high incidences of major diseases have such high longevity with an alleged terrible health system?
This documentary is just propaganda and lies. Canada does not forbid people from paying for their own medical care, 30% of the money spent on health care here is for private health care. We can buy our own private insurance and go to private clinics and pay for whatever treatment we want ourselves. This video is blatantly lying, and is just a sad attempt at pushing the maker's political agenda. The health care system in Canada is great, and according to WHO, it's way better than the US system.
Wish my Canadian cousin couldve gotten decent care. Was born w hole in her heart in Ontario 1980; meds needed watchful liver enzyme tests, even w Nov2008 test showing probs, Doc did nothing. Too busy? Patient Quota already met for yr? Got liver cancer, couldve been caught early, but ignored. Got worse & worse, no referral to Oncologist. Why wasnt she worth saving? She died July 9 of liver cancer at the age of 29. Gov isnt about saving your life, its about saving $
Had a few surgeries all within a reasonable time frame. Everyone in Canada has access and that is why there may be a wait to see a doctor or receive a treatment - life threatening situations that I'm aware of get immediate attention. If the US changes their system watch and see if they don't experience wait times! Should those with MONEY get better access or do all deserve medical access? The problem is lack of medical professionals, our province is bringing medical people from Africa!
I survived cancer TWICE in Canada, and what you don't seem to realize is that if you wait, its because a DOCTOR thinks you should wait. Regardless, no politician will try to take it away, because it would end their career FAST. What does that tell you ?
I'm British. It's not difficult to find some little medical nobody from the UK, stick him in a suit, and tell him to go and tell horror stories to the people about UK healthcare - this is what the Republicans are doing.
But take it from me - when I get sick (and I mean ACTUALLY sick, not a cold) I get to see a doctor immediately and without anyone going through my pockets to see if I've given them any cash recently.
You can thumbs-down this comment if you like, but I've seen it.
My only child, my daughter, was in and out of the hosptial for over a year before they finally found out what was wrong with her, and this was with Blue Cross and Blue Shield coverage for educators. She stayed on her period for over a year. She became anemic, weak, fainting and passing out. My concern is that our health care system is in my experience, subpar. I am scared. What if she'd had to wait another year for the ultrasound that saved her life? I could have lsot my only child.
I was on medicaid in college. I was running a 103 fever and suffering weight loss, vomiting, cramps. I spent a week in our rural hospital diagnosed with PID. After a week on antibiotics I was released, still sick and still running a fever. I spent the next 3 weeks in and out of ER rooms. I was dying and no one would tell me why. I went to Colombia SA to visit my x husbands family. They took me to a doctor who disc. that I had a ruptured bloody cyst, and gangrene. I was rushed to surgery.
I'm not saying that one system is better than the other, because under our American system, many people do without health care and I know here in Florida of a case of a boy with an absessed (sp) tooth dying because he couldn't afford to see a doctor. So people pick which one you want, but know the evils of both. We will just have to deal with whatever we decide as a country.
Under this system a friend of mine waited two years for an MRI because he was suffering severe headaches. Luckily he didn't have cancer or something. It's not propaganda, it's just the way things are; simple mathmatics, if everyone is insured, then more people will be going to see a doctor. Therefore the doctors will have less time to treat each patient, and patients will have to wait longer for help. It's just logical. I don't see why everyone is spouting propaganda.
I'm Canadian and have two completely opposite stories. My wife was diagnosed with Lung Cancer and was immediately sent to a thoracic surgeon and received treatment immediately.
My father has chest pains and went to emergency and again received immediate treatment.
Of course, there will always be cases where sub-par treatment can be found - but this video is blatant propaganda which portrays the worst of the system.
Remember everyone here does have health care at a reasonable cost unlike the US.
I have never had a problem with health care in Canada and I am 21. This is garbage my father was sick with lung cancer and in that time and the six months that he lived our GP and his Oncologists gave him every drug and treatment that was possible to prolong his life. He never waited once, no once, was never put on a list or waited for results to some through. He had small cell lung cancer which doesn't have a high survival rate.
We are tired of hearing horror stories about Canada.
Cherry picked examples of a system that is not top rated.
But, as is typical..we hear straw-man arguments about Canadian horror stories.
How about a comparison to alternate systems that work? My kids live in Europe: The German system and the French have pretty good care, no waiting, and the taxes to pay for it are way, way less than US Insurance.
Note to Stuart: The American System is rated #37 overall for quality...# 1 for cost.
I don't know what this dude is talking about. I pay for my own insurance and it's a piece of crap. I have a $2500 deductible and no doctor visits. I have to go to the county clinic, and wait forever, if I need to see a doctor. A good chunk of your premiums go toward company profits and not paying people's bills. I once had a blood test done by a doctor and the insurance didn't cover it. I don't think that would have been a problem in Canada.
Well 1st off as soon as I found out that this was made by an american I did not take it serious. Second off only elected surgeries are put off, and this is rare. The universal heath system is great and every canadian will tell u that. If our friends to the south like paying thoudands of dollars (thats if they can get insurance) then great. Its just sad that so many americans die because they cannot pay. Regardless I have never heard of a canadian dieing due to lack of coverage.
I don't necessarily agree that socialized health care is the answer. But perhaps you don't know the true price of health care. It's not the $100 a month that you pay to your employer for group coverage, it's at least 10 times that amount. Your employer is picking up most of the bill. For most of those who don't have employer-provided coverage, health care is absolutely unaffordable... and it's only going to get worse. Universal coverage may not be the answer, but SOMETHING has to change.
Besides, Medicare is already $34 Trillion in the hole. That's how much it will have in unfunded liabilities over the next several decades. We will have a $50 Trillion fiscal gap with Medicare and Social Security. Does anyone REALLY think America can afford nationalized healthcare? Is it REALLY possible for the US gov't to insure 300 million people? Hardly. Most or all of the nationalized healthcare countries have populations that are only a fraction of the US's.
Whenever the gov't gets involved, you're likely to see higher costs. Government can do very little to lower costs. Don't buy into Obama's bullshit about "lowering healthcare costs." All his and his Democrats' extra regulation will do is RAISE costs or cause shortages in care or supplies as a direct result. What we need is LESS regulation, not more. We can take care of ourselves, for fucks sake. Gov't needs to stop treating us like children for a change.
There's no healthcare "crisis" in this country. It's a myth made up by the Left to promote UHC. The 47 Million number is a load of crap. Only a fraction of those people will not be able to afford healthcare and actually want or need it long-term. Besides, should we screw up our entire system just to cover 15% or less of the population? I say NO! Besides, what politicians and the left forget is that they caused these high cost problems with all the excessive regulation and intervention.
Sicko makes it sound like people left and right are getting denied coverage for claims by insurers, but that's not true. At least one AMA study shows that private insurers are 2-4% (or maybe up to 6%), and Medicare denies patient claims or underfunds them about 7%! You can easily get plenty of prescriptions from places like Wal-Mart now for just $4-10. Law requires hospitals to treat anyone in the ER regardless of insurance status. The free market DOES work if you just let it.
This may be an advert for capitalist H.C. But take it from a Canadian, socialism is capitalism for government employees. Notice I don't call them workers. The nurses union here has control over how many openings are available for nursing school. That's capitalism for the people whom are already in a position of power yet not for all. The Canadian government owns 85% of the land mass, US government 30%. Don't dare protest without thousands of others or be illegally investigated by gov. services.
I am disgusted by the Canadian heath care system. Health care is "free" and I most certainly have gotten what I have paid for which equals Nothing. I have a palpable mass in my abdomen and have lost over 1/3 of my body weight. I have been waiting since September just for a diagnosis but they have yet to even take blood/urine. I am currently waiting for my passport and I will be travelling to the USA to get answers although it will probably cost me everything I own sadly it is my only option.
People die from minor things here in America. We don't have a health care system here. Our idea of a health care system is lining the pockets of corporations, doctors bouncing patients back and fourth to profit the most.
Unless you're going too die, you can't get medical treatment in the US either. There are just as long waiting lists.
The insurance companies are as big of a joke as our fake DEMOCRACY. Voting doesn't count here. Protesting is illegal. Our constitution is DEAD.
satinhooks, you are really stupid to think that Nationalized healthcare is better than what we have here now. There are imperfections which need to be changed like insurance, and Government hospitals are already around and it is giving healthcare as well. The government hospitals can do whatever they want. But leave the private hospitals and clinics alone,..A person should have the choice of hospital and doctors and not let the government to decide who lives or dies. Obama is a dumb communist.
You never heard of Medicare or Medicaid? Both government run "free" health care programs for the poor and low income people. This is a free health care system that runs at a 40% fraud and bureaucratic waste rate.
And the solution to that is government-run healthcare? HA! At least here in the US people actually have a choice when it comes to healthcare. We're not forced to pay for others, at least not nearly as much. I mean, we do have stupidities like Medicare, Medicaid and SCHIP.
Do you know economics? Monopolies SUCK!
Besides, there's plenty of things good with our healthcare system that you can't see because you're too focused on all the negatives. Typical liberal bullshit.
Japan and Taiwan have a similar system (though not exact) system like Canada. They pay like monthly premium and it's somewhat a form of universal health care. And they are doing really well (I mean, the Japanese and the Taiwanese are WAY healhier than the Americans).
Emergency Healthcare in Canada is excellent. That's not what this is about. For non-emergency care, wait lists are excrutiatingly long. I have been on a variety of wait lists for my knee totalling over 2 years now and counting. Thanks to this, I now have problems with my other knee.
The problem with the medicare is not so much the waiting lists as it is the absence of quality care. Health issues are not limited to surgeries, but all I hear about is that people wait in lines and die unable to get an operation. I think there is another great problem. When you get to the doctor, he usually does nothing to help you. The system is set up in such a way that they won't adequately examine you, and they will play down any of your health problems. Finally, you're sent home sick.
Besides lets not forget that you have little or no choice in the doctor who will treat you and the hospital or clinic that you will go to. My local clinic is crap! All the doctors there are bad both in knowledge and in attitude but I have no right to go to any other clinic!I have no right to see a specialist unless one of these nasty doctors in the clinic accept that I am sick enough to see someone more educated than them!That almost never happens unless you are hanging between life and death.
Once I had a sever bladder problem for months where I was unable to urinate at all for days at a time. One of these doctors examined me and told me"you need no specialist! just go and squeeze some more and the urine will come!" No medicine was suggested either. I had to pay from my own pocket to see a specialist who gave me medicine for it and fixed it within a few weeks! And all of these has nothing to do with any waiting list yet!
Sorry people. My first comment got lost. Here I am complaining about Finnish healthcare system, not Canadian. In Finland we have public health care, but we have some parallel private clinics too which we can go to once the system fails which is quite often. Especially when the matters are a bit more serious! So you end up paying twice. Once in taxes to keep up the public system and once for the private care that you eventually have to seek because the public system is inadequate.
Let me educate all you americans on something. First of all, these people on these waiting lists have the option of going to another province or another city to get their tests done quicker. I'd like to see them bitch once they have to pay the outrageous prices you do in the USA.
I've tried going to another province for care and it's not that simple. Furthermore, specialists in other provinces are overwhelmed. Often they do not want to take on additional patients from other provinces, and this includes persons with serious illnesses. Getting tests quicker? I've waited up to 7 months to see a specialists in another province to be sent home (no help), and have waited over a year to see a specialist in the province I live.
It's easier than you think, it depends on how nice of a family doctor you have. Stop bitching, I mean we get healthcare for FREE. Everyone gets treated the same rich and poor. That doesn't happen in the USA, remember that the next time you want to criticize Canadian healthcare. Sure it may not be the best, but it is better than MOST people in the world have.
No, ShadowRules, it's not that easy. My family doctor is not the problem. He's an excellent doctor. GPs have difficulty getting patients referrals in and out of province. I have a serious lung condition and fight every day. As for free healthcare, my family and I have paid plenty out of pocket, and we also pay high taxes, so its not free. I actually go without specialised respiratory care at this time, as I do not have a respiratory specialist.
Recently, it took well over a year, 15 months to be exact get into see another specialist, and I'm now waiting to see others for my CF, so think about the Canadians who are suffering before you speak of what you do not understand. I have a form of cystic fibrosis and have been told due to the bed shortage that I can no longer receive in hospital tune-ups. Furthermore, think of the frustrated family doctors who are trying their best in a system suffering from a lack of resources.
I've dealt with hospitals much of my life for severe lung disease and it has not been that easy for my doctors who are very good physicians, for my family and friends.
Good luck to you and stay healthy. Your mother may have dealt with the system as a health care professional, but my family and I have dealt with it for longer than your mom's career. My parents fought for my care when I was a child, and I continue to do so now. I've have required many procedures, have has to see many doctors, have stayed in various hospitals, many hospital stays, home care, etc.
Sorry, you have no idea what you are talking about. You think we have it so bad? Go to the USA where you have to pay for every little thing. We have it pretty good and it's time people like you stopped complaining. Maybe if every person who had a sniffle or a cold didn't go to the hospital we'd have shorter wait times than we do.
I know way more than you could imagine, as I've had a great many experiences with our healthcare system in Canada with my own illness and my mother's, she has Alzheimer's. yes, I do think we have it bad. When you are sick and cannot get a hospital bad and need one badly for a bronchiectasis and CF tune up, than you know we have it bad. My family and I have had to pay thousands in Canada pertaining to healthcare, not everything is "free" here.
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Waaaa Waaaa you sound like a bloody baby, grow up. You don't like it here, MOVE! Geez, you wanna complain that's fine you're one person in 36 million bud. The VAST majority, and yes I mean VAST majority of people in this country get excellent medical care.
When you have to pay thousands of dollars to see a doctor in the USA for treatment then you can complain. Because right now you have absolutely no reason to. I know all about the healthcare system here, I also have had a lot of family in and out of the hospital their whole lives so I have seen it.
As I said before, my mother worked in it for 32 years everyday, that adds up to a great deal of time seeing how it works. When even she says we have it better than the USA I'm a bit more inclined to believe her than some whiny bozo who just wants to bitch. Move to the States if you think they have it so good. Stop wasting our tax dollars on your sickly family then.
I don't think that the idea is that Canada should stop paying for care. Instead I think the idea is to legalize private care for whoever wants it. I think the fear here is that, richer Canadians faced with a choice will say, "I don't use the government payed facilities, why should I pay for their healthcare?"
Well that is just not going to happen. The gap between the rich and the poor is very heavily buffered by a big middle class. This is just socialist propaganda, verging on the communist.
And your point is!? It's worse in the USA-there is no middle class here either anymore and there is NO safety net. At least in Canada you have something for the less fortunate.
You don't even know what a commie is douchebag so go crawl back under your uneducated american rock and shut the fuck up while those of us in the real world debate intelligently. ASSHOLE.
yes the more i look at this video, the more it doesn't add up. i couldn't help but notice a few of the things he says, including our views of American health care, are wrong. first off, this was made during the BRIEF time that the USA's idea of socialized health care was growing, a LOT of businesses in America would go bankrupt if they did switch, so i wouldn't doubt that this video was funded by medical officials to scare people into closing their minds about the whole ordeal.
what i would like to point out is that, if you believe this video (through all its upbeat patronizing music, and green screens) then you should definitely watch two other videos. one came out very recently. of course most of you probably wont watch them becuase you'd assume this "documentary" is accurate... its not. sure Socialized health care wont work for America, but check out
"Canadians talk to Americans about health care" AND "Union Presentation: US vs. Canada Healthcare" on youtube
Um...i don't think you watched the video. They never talk about ER, this is major non ER operations. Like "hey you need knee surgery, we will get to it in 2 years."
all some people do is complain..complain..and complain, without doing any real effort to change stuff :) Of course, conditions would be even better if everyone paid more taxes, but hm what comes then, more complaining? YES. Get a job within politics and make a change!
Another way to help: Have physicians write off free care they give as a loss against their income tax. If I bill a patient and he can't pay, I can't write it off. If I could write it off, I'd gladly treat 10 a week. If all physcians did that, it would take care of a lot of uninsured patients.
I'm a broke-ass U.S. citizen, and like all other broke-ass U.S. citizens, I can already get free healthcare, and it is of much better quality than what I have heard Canadian visitors speak of in my taxi. It only requires a couple hours investigation on the internet and phone calls, a little perseverance.
Canadians are so proud of their system, but when you hear them talk about it (in person), it just reminds you how lucky you are to be in the U.S.A.
And yes, much of the free healthcare here is already paid with tax money. But if government got out of it and left people to their own devices, I'd bet good money on three things: people would start taking ALOT better care of themselves, health care costs would go down, and we would see a drastic decrease in the number of folk in need of medical care.
I'm giving you a virtual medal: we need more people who want to grow up and take care of themselves rather than have a perpetual government parent take care of them so they can remain adolescents their entire lives.
I've experienced something of an realization these last couple of years and that is that people rarely do what is good for them. If the Canadian government were to stop taxing people as much and fully privatize healthcare I can see a situation where faced with the decision of whether to pay their cable bill or their insurance, a citizen would pay for their cable. People are generally retarded especially when they are well and have no worries. That said, I am for private-by-choice care only.
"People are generally retarded especially when they are well and have no worries." -- Classic leftist contempt for humanity in general. That is EXACTLY the kind of thinking that leads to socialism, communism, and nationalized health care. That people are "generally retarded," so they need government to usurp the property of productive private citizens in order to amass the resources to take care of everyone.
I know this is an old comment, but I had to chuckle at your idealistic assumption that people would take better care of themselves if they didn't have socialized medicine. Have you BEEN to the U.S.? Most Americans treat their cars better than they treat their own bodies. We spend more time watching TV than we do exercising. We eat like we're eating for two people. We binge drink and chain smoke and eat some of the worst food on the planet. As a result, health care costs are insane.
The people who have posted comments that are pro-socialized medicine can be classified in two categories:
1.) Someone who doesn't work and would appreciate it if the working people in the US paid for their healthcare, since they are, in fact, too lazy to work themselves.
2.) The most uninformed, uneducated, liberal minded crazies this world has to offer. We currently see how socialized medicine fails... Yet we want to destroy one of the greatest systems in the world for eminent failure?
It should be a sign to us that something is wrong with our healthcare system when insuarnce companies are rewarding medical reviewers with bonuses and promotions when they out-deny their peers.
This film is quite misleading, it only represents SPECIALISTS doctors in Canada. Surgeries and operations in Canada do not normally take months or years, but if you want to request a certain specialists then you will have to wait. While that does indeed pose a problem, as an American, I would gladly take that over our current healthcare system where you can be denied a health care because insurance companies want acheive the highest profits posssible.
To curtin...the alternative to 'Universal' healthcare is to pay for it. Also, the old saying 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure' comes to mind.
If everyone would get off their lazy ass and get a job and pay for health care like everyone else does that would solve one problem, Doctors are overpaid for practicing medicine if they are so good at it why then-do they call it PRACTICE? Im a professional at what I do but they aren't lol. Just because this is America doesn't everything should be free. Public funded...who is the public? Tax payers are, how about a 10-20% increase in taxes for every american family to have free health care.
I would suggest having copays proportional to the price of care would cause the insured consumer to care about the price of care/drugs, thus introducing market forces and thereby lowering costs. If this happened insurance would be cheaper and more could aford it. Perhaps some health care money is warented for the dirt poor. Universal health care = Crappy care for everyone.
An alternative would be tax incentives for those who purchase coverage.
An alternative would be refusing to work jobs who do not provide benefits, which would force them to become competitive and offer health coverage.
An alternative would be the system we have now. We have one of the best healthcare systems in the world, no matter how you look at it. It could be tweaked, but its not doing a bad job now.
What i don't get is this: we don't have to copy Canada's or any country's system. We could build a better one and learn from what is wrong in other health care systems. But the current US system sucks big time. Not the doctors, but how it is managed by profit-oriented corporations.
AnimalAndy: We've already figured out what's wrong with other health care systems--they're government-funded. The incentive system is upside down. This happens every time the costs of goods and services aren't borne directly by the people who use them. See his video "A Short Course in Brain Surgery" for details.
Hm... So making your health a good that you might or might not be able to pay for according to your income seems to be preferable to a system where people care for each other and a society that supports their weaker members? Well, I'll pay for universal healthcare any day, as i accept the police and fire department being run "socialized".
What can we learn? That socialist healthcare doesn't work!
Guess what, I'd gladly fly in an aircraft made by boeing or airbus. They're safe and efficient. Made by private profit-oriented corporations.
Would I fly in a Soviet-era Russian airliner? HELL NO! Made by a non-profit socialist governent.
All the food you eat and gods you use probably came from profit-oriented corporations. That's why it's safe and works well: If not the company goes under
'04 moved to Canada from U.S. where I had Kaiser ins. I'm a victim of socialized med. & it's not free..you pay $108 a month for free care. + We pay $250mnth for supplementary care to help pay medications & dental. $358mnth is more than Kaiser was& care is not 1/10th quality. I needed MRI here/wait list was 8 mnths. Pd.$1000 for a private one. They botched surgery on my neck which forced me to go to the US to have it fixed, costing us $35,000!
I'm wiling to bet lizzielou73 isn't Canadian at all. I wish youtube posted IPS. so we coudl confirm this. I've had friends with everything. Heart Conditions, Sports Injuries, genetic problems. I know there's issues in canada ( or we'd be number 1 on the list ) but I woudlnt' rade out system for the American system any day. It's just appalling that your life or death is in the hands of a 'for profit' HMO.....
IPS is meaningless. Everyday millions of planes leave various destinations all over the globe placing many people who say they are one thing in places that are totally not descriptive of who they are and where they come from. Example; I am Welsh, I reside in Florida right now and my IPS would say that I am currently in Egypt. Genius!
I'm not sure that's true. Stuart's just a liberatarian. I don't fault him for his beliefs. I actually agree with some of the stuff CATO comes out with. It's just the film is very bad. The more anecdotal street interviews you have, the less substance you have. in this case I suspect it's true.
(cont'd) The waits portrayed here are awful, but Canadians DO have access to free care when many people in the states (many whom I know personally) never get the services they need, or are flooded with the subsequent bills. There HAS TO BE SOMETHING BETTER than the corrupt HMOs currently controlling this system.
We do not have access to free care in Canada, because we are heavily taxed and the system does not cover everything. The waits are terrible, people do sometimes die waiting, some important cancer treatments are not covered in some provinces, because we do not have a truly universal healthcare system, and 5 million Canadians are without a family doctor, so necessary for access to basic healthcare. Canadian healthcare is in a way like a giant HMO monopoly.
SiCKO doesn't contend that Canada has all the answers, but rather we can use what does work from each system to devise our own in the US (Belgium, from this, would be a great example of a country to emulate).
I think this is a great documentary, and gives a lot of good food for thought. I think it should be shown alongside Michael Moore's Sicko so that viewers really understand the problems with both systems...Moore's movie pretends that waiting lists are a lie propagated by the insurance companies and conservatives.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
In SiCKO, Moore succinctly points out the absurdity of the "we will all have to wait in line" argument against socialized medicine. In the U.S., wait times for some things may be quicker (if you are one of the fortunate ones), because 47,000,000 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THE LINE. Seriously! I wonder if some of you people critiquing the film have even seen it. or maybe you saw it, but didn't WATCH it. Everyone who thinks some people should go without health care deserves a chronic disease.
I'm Canadian and would like to add that this film is actually a highly accurate portrayal of Canadian healthcare. My health problems are severe and I've had the run around trying to get the necessary care and have waited months to receive necessary care only to get turned down for follow up for my chronic lung disease that I've had since childhood.
Canada is nonetheless ranked well above the U.S. in health care. Canada = 30th U.S = 37th so I don't suggest you come to the U.S. unless you are filthy rich, and even then, to defend our pay for care system is to condemn the poor to suffer needlessly in the richest country of the world. shameful.
baronmorris, I'm poor in Canada and I'm suffering through lack of care for my lungs, so you are saying its okay for the poor in Canada to suffer and to die waiting for care?
Truly sorry to hear about your illness. Apparently you are able to afford better care (tho I would hesitate to say you are "lucky" given your condition). If the public care in Canada (which is ranked only slightly ahead of the US and is not therefore the ideal model of socialized medicine) is failing you, imagine being poor in USA - you would have even less care. Hope you heal up. PEACE.
I would actually have more and better care in the US. The US has some excellent cystic fibrosis programs and all of my American friends have a vest (google it - vest airway clearance system). None of my Canadian CF friends has a vest for their physio, because its deemed too expensive in Canada. The US also has a much better track record with cancer treatments some are not even covered in Canada and Canadians do die as a result.
yes, but my point is that in the US you only get this care if you can afford to PAY for it. Also, there are variables other than the integrity of the health care system that affect availability of care - for instance, there are only 3000 people in Canada with C.F. and more than 30,000 in the U.S. Perhaps this is one of the factors that explains your difficulty. Finally, raise your voice to improve the flaws in your nation's health care system. Hopefully we will be doing the same. PEACE!
How long do the 45 million wait? I needed rotator cuff surgery, diagnosed in late august of 09, had an appointment in oct. When I asked for a different surgeon of my choice, I accepted the extra wait until march of 2010. Surgery was in early july and I feel great. As a Canadian I didn't have to pay for this. The system isn't perfect but neither is the US profit over people mentality. Wake up America . You have always deserved better.
nevrgreen 6 months ago 2
@nevrgreen - The 45 million is a bogus figure trumped up by the socialist politicians that want to see our health care system deteriorate to one similar to yours. Get your facts straight before slinging mud on your southern neighbors, aye. Pay attention, profit, competition and the free market system is what improves life for the masses, not the government run bureaucracies, aye. Step away from the Kool Aid and think for yourself.
jackruthjess 3 weeks ago
@jackruthjess Whether it is 45,35, or however many million your trumped up number is, there are or were Americans who don't have health care. My comment pertaining to my surgury is a fact, straight up. While the free market system can and does improve peoples lives it has proven to be flawed with respect to health care. The deaths and bankruptcies prove it.
nevrgreen 3 weeks ago
Of course Canada & Europe can pay thru the nose for health care - who will they turn to when they need to be rescued from another tyrannical dictator- the Danish army? The Canadian marines? The Swedish navy? Please. The US has to pay for a strong military to save the rest of the world from its own stupidity. Europe is going BROKE from its social welfare programs. If you don't want to keep most of the money you make then sure, you can have your "free" healthcare.
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JessaWefgdhjfew 1 year ago
Sounds like the US.
castillianwagon500 1 year ago
@castillianwagon500 No it certainly does not unless you mean it osunds like the type of care given to medicaid patients, then ys, so when the whole country is on medicaid then yes itwill be just like this.
erindrake2010 7 months ago
That's blatantly false, hospitals have to treat whoever walks through their doors in an emergency. Also, America has 6000 public clinics where anyone can go for treatment.
Canadians want a "free" system, and we love our health care system... until we use it. If I ever get sick with a serious illness, I'm headed south for treatment. Alongside thousands of other Canadians.
jellofuel 1 year ago
@jellofuel Sorry jello, you are the minority. Recent polls show support for our Universal system at 90%, and satisfaction of the care we receive at 88%. Its a myth that thousands of Canadians go south for care. You do realize that millions of Americans go abroad to other countries, like Canada, for WAY less expensive care. Who cares about that 60% of bankruptcies there are related to medical bills. Who cares that a Harvard Study saying 45,000 Americans die every year due poor access to care.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@jellofuel And true, hospitals in the States can turn away patients, but they are only mandated to treat and stabalize. Any further, ongoing care, is NOT provided. Not to mention the fact they are billed for the care they receive. Here's a thought for you...move!
And btw, the Mayo clinic said Holmes had RCC not Cushing's. Here's the link to prove it. Right from the mayo clinics website. She did NOT HAVE A TUMOUR!!!
mayoclinic(dot)org/patientstories/story-339(dot)html
MadHabber93 1 year ago
The only waiting lists in America is if you're on a public system. But the existence of the public insurance program makes private plans more expansive because the public program only pays for 60% of the actual cost of the treatment. Apparently, we're in a similar position.
I know, I know, freedom isn't exactly cherished by liberals and socialists, but why does the government need to stick its nose in my business when I'M the one who should be buying a service from a private practice?
jellofuel 1 year ago
@jellofuel It is well know that people who cannot afford healthcare have a waiting time of forever. Of course, they can always sell their home or go bankrupt. Sorry, Canadians don't want that.
And any healthcare decision I make is between my doctor and I. The insurance companies have far more control over the lives of Americans then our gov't does.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
If we were to pay as we go, and according to our means, then the system would be in much better shape than it is now. Because what we have now... isn't working.
Keep in mind, you're talking to someone who's worked in a long term care home for 8 years. I've seen a lot: patients suffering, increasing costs, increasing standards, staff shortages, burns, etc.
jellofuel 1 year ago
@jellofuel As far as it being a tumour, refer to this website. This is one of MANY disputing her claim. She Lied. PERIOD.
Triplewww(dot)factcheck(dot)org/2009/08/dying-on-a-wait-list/
MadHabber93 1 year ago
No, she didn't. So far as I can remember, from actually talking to her, she had some serious problems with her pituitary gland. She saved her own life, because the doctors here disregarded the Mayo Clinic's diagnosis. the Mayo Clinic!
Ok, I have a resident at work who's been waiting a year for a hernia operation. He will probably be with us another year or so.
Our system is imploding, that's why you see all these measures from McGuinty trying to reduce costs, like drugs.
jellofuel 1 year ago
@jellofuel Holmes claimed she had a tumour that if she didn't get removed, she would have died. Holmes was diagnosed with Rathke’s cleft cyst, a rare, benign cyst that forms near the pituitary gland. It’s not known to be fatal. A quote from a Montreal surgeon about her case: Dr. Rolando Del Maestro says "If it’s a real emergency in the sense that the patient’s visual function is getting substantially worse, the patients would be brought in immediately and would be operated on the next day,’
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@MadHabber93 Holmes optometrist states that her vision was deteriorating quickly. And it was a pituitary problem; her actual diagnosis is only known to her, and isn't on wikipedia. Rathke's cleft cyst though, is an improper diagnosis.
Well, apparently, he is waiting for it.
Health costs are rising in Ontario faster than the rate of inflation. If the rate stays the same, health spending will blot out other program spending. We spent 45 billion health care last year:
jellofuel 1 year ago
@jellofuel Healthcare costs are rising everywhere, let alone Ont. How do you perceive to lower costs, bring in more private care that costs more?
It's been widely publicized what Holmes was treated for.The cyst formed near her pituitary gland, causing the vision problem. Holmes still claims that she would have died from it. Fredric Meyer M.D., chair of neurosurgery at Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minn., responded in a statement that "RCC is a benign lesion & is NOT typically life-threatening."
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@MadHabber93 Partial privatization would allow doctors to charge more or less for their services and bring more doctors to the industry. I mean, after the boomers retire we're screwed.
She has a youtube channel shonaholmes3. RCC is wrong. Period. And that neurosurgeon is an idiot for breaching confidentiality and for ignoring vital symptoms.
The problem with our system is access. The supreme court already stated that access to a waiting list isn't access to health care.
jellofuel 1 year ago
@jellofuel I could care less if you she has a youtube channel, she lied. PERIOD. And its still only one case, which does not damn an entire system. How does charging more or less bring more doctors to our system?? Answer. It doesn't. More privitization will skim doctors from the public system into the private system, thereby increasing wait times for the majority and decreasing for the few. This is what happened in Australia. We still have better access than Americans.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@MadHabber93 She DIDN'T lie. Her case does show there's no choice in our system though.
Market forces. Legitimate competition is the only way to reach equilibrium, and that's where everyone gets what they want. The truth about our system is that it's deliberately underfunded. Our hospitals have an average deficit of 150 million bucks. We have waiting lists where people suffer without end. We pay outrageous taxes, and for what? Equality? Great, we can all suffer together.
jellofuel 1 year ago
@jellofuel She claimed in the t.v. commericial that she had a BRAIN TUMOUR, which she did NOT. She claimed she would have died, when both Canadian and American docs say she wouldn't have. She has a 100,000 reasons to lie, and that's to get that 100 grand back from OHIP. F that. Market forces don't work in healthcare. If it did, the U.S. would have the cheapest healthcare on the plantet, yet its the most expensive. Our taxes, although not low, are not outrageous.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@jellofuel As far as choice, she had plenty of them. She could have been referred to any other neurosurgeon in the province for another opinion. Instead, she goes to the Mayo clinic. What about the Montreal surgeon who said if she was starting to lose her eyesight, he would operate immediately? Most HMO's and insurance companies have restricted lists of what hospitals to use and what doctors they can see in the States. The fact you use the Holmes case to cherry pick a point is mind boggling.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@MadHabber93 She did attempt to see another surgeon, but there was only 2 or 3 of them, and she would (surprise surprise) have had to waited to see them for a consultation. Of course she had a brain tumor, whoever told you otherwise is a moron.
The Americans are plagued by insane civil suits damaging their system. They need tort reform, so patients can't sue practitioners for insanely high rewards.
If anything, I recommend a model like legal aid ontario. cont...
jellofuel 1 year ago
@jellofuel Ok, you've obvioiusly 'bought' her line that it was a tumour. In the might words of Arnold, "Its not a Tumor" How you don't see that, again, is mind boggling. Its ALL OVER the internet. She had a CYST. To believe otherwise is moronic. Now, there aren't 2 or 3 otherones in the entire province. And, if presented correctly by her own doctor, urgent cases are seen faster if not right away. That's how our system works, I've worked in it as well...for nearly 20 years.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@MadHabber93 This is childish. How exactly do you know her diagnosis? You don't, the only one who knows is Shona and she's suing the government. But she will tell you her symptoms and her actual condition.
There was only 2 others that could see her within a reasonable timeframe, and that was still in months.
Also, did you even watch the movie? lol
And how do you plan on dealing with our hospitals deficits? They're only cutting services after all.
jellofuel 1 year ago
@jellofuel It is silly. Every report has painted what she has been diagnosed with. You choose to ignore it. She has a BIG reason to lie, as like you said, she is suing to get her $100 grand back for getting a cyst removed. You are the only person who believes her and the only supporting her. Again, unless her vision is being impaired and its not a tumour, waiting is reasonable. Some hospitals have run deficits, not all. Wait times in the u.s. FOREVER. Canadians don't want it.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@MadHabber93HBhdmXUL-s0&feature=related
Ok, it was Cushing Syndrome, not RCC. I think she has a case regardless. We pay into an insurance program, which promises health care. We pay a lot for it, but when we go to use it, we're denied? How in the hell is that fair?
There are no waiting lists in American hospitals. If you're on medicare, maybe lol. But imagine, getting what you pay for. Inequality can eat sh!t as far as I'm concerned. Here's to freedom.
jellofuel 1 year ago
@jellofuel Here's to freedom??? Tell that to the millions who can't insurance, or who can't afford it. Wait times, forever.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@jellofuel For the hernia, there is the Shouldice clinic outside Toronto that is a world leader in hernia repair. They have treated over 60,000 Americans, let alone countless Canadians, since its inception. My brother was treated there with very little wait time.
Our system is NOT imploding. There is no real evidence of it.
For McGuinty, for the record, he's a dick but he's right on reducing costs where we can. Lining the pockets of pharmacists is one way, while reducing generic drug cost.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
Canada actually has a two-tier health care system. If you want "free" low-quality health care, go to your doctor, get put on a waiting list, and hope you survive the wait.
The private option is called "America." Simply go there, and pay a doctor to treat you.
jellofuel 1 year ago
@jellofuel Is that why countless Americans go abroad every year to other countries, including Canada, because they can't afford healthcare in the U.S.?? Canadians dieing on wait lists is a myth.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
@MadHabber93 People like Shona Holmes would have died if she had stayed in Canada. I work in a nursing home in Ontario... I've seen people waiting months for simple treatments that no one waits for in America. It's inexcusable. Our system is imploding, according to the former and current president of the CMA.
Also, Ontario just released a new Long-Term Care Act, which looks to be negatively affecting residents already.
jellofuel 1 year ago
@jellofuel Shona Holmes LIED. She had a benign cyst that could NEVER go to cancer. She got screwed by the Mayo clinic by paying 100 grand to have a cyst removed, then tried to milk OHIP for it.
Give me an example of a 'simple' test that people are waiting for here.
Our system is not imploding, & our current CMA president's words were taken out of context. She FULLY supports Universal Care. The U.S. systems leaves millions behind, and results in 45,000 deaths every year due to lack of access.
MadHabber93 1 year ago
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jellofuel 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@MadHabber93 No, she didn't. So far as I can remember, from actually talking to her, she had some serious problems with her pituitary gland. She saved her own life, because the doctors here disregarded the Mayo Clinic's diagnosis. the Mayo Clinic!
Ok, I have a resident at work who's been waiting a year for a hernia operation. He will probably be with us another year or so.
Our system is imploding, that's why you see all these measures from McGuinty trying to reduce costs, like drugs.
jellofuel 1 year ago
She actually said irregardless, I can't believe that was left in the film, that is NOT a real word. Really makes that woman sound ignorant.
nowaythatnameistaken 2 years ago
He indicates a dual private system will help us all. No it won't - there are dozens of researchers around the world who have noted that a rise in private insurance results in increased public wait lists and not shorten them. Why does this happen? If Canada switched to a dual private system tommorow, the fact remains - There are still 67,000 Dr's to do the procedures - No human resources have been created. Lets say a public Surgeons performs 100 surgeries/ year in ..........
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
....order for a private Dr. to offer faster care, he must perform less surgeries. If a private Dr has the same case load as his Public Counterpart then he cannot offer faster care. Less surgeries are performed overall, but the amount of people requiring surgery has not changed, so the people in the Public system wait even longer than before. This exact scenario has been taken place in numerous Countries and isn't some baseless theory. Timely care is given to who can pay - not who needs it more
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
Isn't it amazing how Canadians have some of the highest incidences of major diseases like Cancer and heart diseases, but have one of the longest life spans in the World - Unless we are performing surgeries on our selves it is clear that we have a good health system that provides timely care - Otherwise how is it possible with a nation with such high incidences of major diseases have such high longevity with an alleged terrible health system?
SparwoodApple 2 years ago
This documentary is just propaganda and lies. Canada does not forbid people from paying for their own medical care, 30% of the money spent on health care here is for private health care. We can buy our own private insurance and go to private clinics and pay for whatever treatment we want ourselves. This video is blatantly lying, and is just a sad attempt at pushing the maker's political agenda. The health care system in Canada is great, and according to WHO, it's way better than the US system.
YeiTomohisa 2 years ago
eugenics...
punjabisikhwarrior 2 years ago
Wish my Canadian cousin couldve gotten decent care. Was born w hole in her heart in Ontario 1980; meds needed watchful liver enzyme tests, even w Nov2008 test showing probs, Doc did nothing. Too busy? Patient Quota already met for yr? Got liver cancer, couldve been caught early, but ignored. Got worse & worse, no referral to Oncologist. Why wasnt she worth saving? She died July 9 of liver cancer at the age of 29. Gov isnt about saving your life, its about saving $
Kansasgrandmother 2 years ago
Had a few surgeries all within a reasonable time frame. Everyone in Canada has access and that is why there may be a wait to see a doctor or receive a treatment - life threatening situations that I'm aware of get immediate attention. If the US changes their system watch and see if they don't experience wait times! Should those with MONEY get better access or do all deserve medical access? The problem is lack of medical professionals, our province is bringing medical people from Africa!
grouch45 2 years ago
I survived cancer TWICE in Canada, and what you don't seem to realize is that if you wait, its because a DOCTOR thinks you should wait. Regardless, no politician will try to take it away, because it would end their career FAST. What does that tell you ?
steveaustin71 2 years ago
I'm British. It's not difficult to find some little medical nobody from the UK, stick him in a suit, and tell him to go and tell horror stories to the people about UK healthcare - this is what the Republicans are doing.
But take it from me - when I get sick (and I mean ACTUALLY sick, not a cold) I get to see a doctor immediately and without anyone going through my pockets to see if I've given them any cash recently.
You can thumbs-down this comment if you like, but I've seen it.
LastAngryMan2 2 years ago
My only child, my daughter, was in and out of the hosptial for over a year before they finally found out what was wrong with her, and this was with Blue Cross and Blue Shield coverage for educators. She stayed on her period for over a year. She became anemic, weak, fainting and passing out. My concern is that our health care system is in my experience, subpar. I am scared. What if she'd had to wait another year for the ultrasound that saved her life? I could have lsot my only child.
stargazntreki 2 years ago
I was on medicaid in college. I was running a 103 fever and suffering weight loss, vomiting, cramps. I spent a week in our rural hospital diagnosed with PID. After a week on antibiotics I was released, still sick and still running a fever. I spent the next 3 weeks in and out of ER rooms. I was dying and no one would tell me why. I went to Colombia SA to visit my x husbands family. They took me to a doctor who disc. that I had a ruptured bloody cyst, and gangrene. I was rushed to surgery.
stargazntreki 2 years ago
I'm not saying that one system is better than the other, because under our American system, many people do without health care and I know here in Florida of a case of a boy with an absessed (sp) tooth dying because he couldn't afford to see a doctor. So people pick which one you want, but know the evils of both. We will just have to deal with whatever we decide as a country.
stargazntreki 2 years ago
Under this system a friend of mine waited two years for an MRI because he was suffering severe headaches. Luckily he didn't have cancer or something. It's not propaganda, it's just the way things are; simple mathmatics, if everyone is insured, then more people will be going to see a doctor. Therefore the doctors will have less time to treat each patient, and patients will have to wait longer for help. It's just logical. I don't see why everyone is spouting propaganda.
stargazntreki 2 years ago
I'm Canadian and have two completely opposite stories. My wife was diagnosed with Lung Cancer and was immediately sent to a thoracic surgeon and received treatment immediately.
My father has chest pains and went to emergency and again received immediate treatment.
Of course, there will always be cases where sub-par treatment can be found - but this video is blatant propaganda which portrays the worst of the system.
Remember everyone here does have health care at a reasonable cost unlike the US.
DemeterCanada 2 years ago 3
I have never had a problem with health care in Canada and I am 21. This is garbage my father was sick with lung cancer and in that time and the six months that he lived our GP and his Oncologists gave him every drug and treatment that was possible to prolong his life. He never waited once, no once, was never put on a list or waited for results to some through. He had small cell lung cancer which doesn't have a high survival rate.
jpaetz1 2 years ago
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We are tired of hearing horror stories about Canada.
Cherry picked examples of a system that is not top rated.
But, as is typical..we hear straw-man arguments about Canadian horror stories.
How about a comparison to alternate systems that work? My kids live in Europe: The German system and the French have pretty good care, no waiting, and the taxes to pay for it are way, way less than US Insurance.
Note to Stuart: The American System is rated #37 overall for quality...# 1 for cost.
givethemahand 2 years ago
Amearicans dont deserve health care, If there gonna bitch so much about ours
LGLF1 2 years ago
I don't know what this dude is talking about. I pay for my own insurance and it's a piece of crap. I have a $2500 deductible and no doctor visits. I have to go to the county clinic, and wait forever, if I need to see a doctor. A good chunk of your premiums go toward company profits and not paying people's bills. I once had a blood test done by a doctor and the insurance didn't cover it. I don't think that would have been a problem in Canada.
thoughtsurfer1 2 years ago
Well 1st off as soon as I found out that this was made by an american I did not take it serious. Second off only elected surgeries are put off, and this is rare. The universal heath system is great and every canadian will tell u that. If our friends to the south like paying thoudands of dollars (thats if they can get insurance) then great. Its just sad that so many americans die because they cannot pay. Regardless I have never heard of a canadian dieing due to lack of coverage.
9660104 2 years ago
I don't necessarily agree that socialized health care is the answer. But perhaps you don't know the true price of health care. It's not the $100 a month that you pay to your employer for group coverage, it's at least 10 times that amount. Your employer is picking up most of the bill. For most of those who don't have employer-provided coverage, health care is absolutely unaffordable... and it's only going to get worse. Universal coverage may not be the answer, but SOMETHING has to change.
anonymoususer1234567 2 years ago
Besides, Medicare is already $34 Trillion in the hole. That's how much it will have in unfunded liabilities over the next several decades. We will have a $50 Trillion fiscal gap with Medicare and Social Security. Does anyone REALLY think America can afford nationalized healthcare? Is it REALLY possible for the US gov't to insure 300 million people? Hardly. Most or all of the nationalized healthcare countries have populations that are only a fraction of the US's.
whoo689 2 years ago 2
Whenever the gov't gets involved, you're likely to see higher costs. Government can do very little to lower costs. Don't buy into Obama's bullshit about "lowering healthcare costs." All his and his Democrats' extra regulation will do is RAISE costs or cause shortages in care or supplies as a direct result. What we need is LESS regulation, not more. We can take care of ourselves, for fucks sake. Gov't needs to stop treating us like children for a change.
whoo689 2 years ago 11
There's no healthcare "crisis" in this country. It's a myth made up by the Left to promote UHC. The 47 Million number is a load of crap. Only a fraction of those people will not be able to afford healthcare and actually want or need it long-term. Besides, should we screw up our entire system just to cover 15% or less of the population? I say NO! Besides, what politicians and the left forget is that they caused these high cost problems with all the excessive regulation and intervention.
whoo689 2 years ago
Sicko makes it sound like people left and right are getting denied coverage for claims by insurers, but that's not true. At least one AMA study shows that private insurers are 2-4% (or maybe up to 6%), and Medicare denies patient claims or underfunds them about 7%! You can easily get plenty of prescriptions from places like Wal-Mart now for just $4-10. Law requires hospitals to treat anyone in the ER regardless of insurance status. The free market DOES work if you just let it.
whoo689 2 years ago
This may be an advert for capitalist H.C. But take it from a Canadian, socialism is capitalism for government employees. Notice I don't call them workers. The nurses union here has control over how many openings are available for nursing school. That's capitalism for the people whom are already in a position of power yet not for all. The Canadian government owns 85% of the land mass, US government 30%. Don't dare protest without thousands of others or be illegally investigated by gov. services.
nesw2 2 years ago 2
I am disgusted by the Canadian heath care system. Health care is "free" and I most certainly have gotten what I have paid for which equals Nothing. I have a palpable mass in my abdomen and have lost over 1/3 of my body weight. I have been waiting since September just for a diagnosis but they have yet to even take blood/urine. I am currently waiting for my passport and I will be travelling to the USA to get answers although it will probably cost me everything I own sadly it is my only option.
willowdots 3 years ago 3
British, Finnish, Canadian, Australian Nationalized health care system where Obama wants to follow are sucks. Obama can go to hell.
DarthMai 3 years ago 4
People die from minor things here in America. We don't have a health care system here. Our idea of a health care system is lining the pockets of corporations, doctors bouncing patients back and fourth to profit the most.
Unless you're going too die, you can't get medical treatment in the US either. There are just as long waiting lists.
The insurance companies are as big of a joke as our fake DEMOCRACY. Voting doesn't count here. Protesting is illegal. Our constitution is DEAD.
satinhooks 3 years ago
satinhooks, you are really stupid to think that Nationalized healthcare is better than what we have here now. There are imperfections which need to be changed like insurance, and Government hospitals are already around and it is giving healthcare as well. The government hospitals can do whatever they want. But leave the private hospitals and clinics alone,..A person should have the choice of hospital and doctors and not let the government to decide who lives or dies. Obama is a dumb communist.
DarthMai 3 years ago 4
You never heard of Medicare or Medicaid? Both government run "free" health care programs for the poor and low income people. This is a free health care system that runs at a 40% fraud and bureaucratic waste rate.
sodie77 3 years ago 4
And the solution to that is government-run healthcare? HA! At least here in the US people actually have a choice when it comes to healthcare. We're not forced to pay for others, at least not nearly as much. I mean, we do have stupidities like Medicare, Medicaid and SCHIP.
Do you know economics? Monopolies SUCK!
Besides, there's plenty of things good with our healthcare system that you can't see because you're too focused on all the negatives. Typical liberal bullshit.
whoo689 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Thank you for proving my point. This from an american citizen. Its sad about the state of american heathcare. Thank you Canada.
9660104 2 years ago
the last thing you really want is a single-payer system
frankiebearsmom 3 years ago
Japan and Taiwan have a similar system (though not exact) system like Canada. They pay like monthly premium and it's somewhat a form of universal health care. And they are doing really well (I mean, the Japanese and the Taiwanese are WAY healhier than the Americans).
Dpaladinx 3 years ago
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camrynComes2211 3 years ago
Free market. the answer to all of lifes problems. ok well not all but health care. ;)
Fatal616 3 years ago 2
Emergency Healthcare in Canada is excellent. That's not what this is about. For non-emergency care, wait lists are excrutiatingly long. I have been on a variety of wait lists for my knee totalling over 2 years now and counting. Thanks to this, I now have problems with my other knee.
testmonkey01 3 years ago 5
The problem with the medicare is not so much the waiting lists as it is the absence of quality care. Health issues are not limited to surgeries, but all I hear about is that people wait in lines and die unable to get an operation. I think there is another great problem. When you get to the doctor, he usually does nothing to help you. The system is set up in such a way that they won't adequately examine you, and they will play down any of your health problems. Finally, you're sent home sick.
olegplanets 3 years ago
Besides lets not forget that you have little or no choice in the doctor who will treat you and the hospital or clinic that you will go to. My local clinic is crap! All the doctors there are bad both in knowledge and in attitude but I have no right to go to any other clinic!I have no right to see a specialist unless one of these nasty doctors in the clinic accept that I am sick enough to see someone more educated than them!That almost never happens unless you are hanging between life and death.
ritamalik 3 years ago
Once I had a sever bladder problem for months where I was unable to urinate at all for days at a time. One of these doctors examined me and told me"you need no specialist! just go and squeeze some more and the urine will come!" No medicine was suggested either. I had to pay from my own pocket to see a specialist who gave me medicine for it and fixed it within a few weeks! And all of these has nothing to do with any waiting list yet!
ritamalik 3 years ago
Sorry people. My first comment got lost. Here I am complaining about Finnish healthcare system, not Canadian. In Finland we have public health care, but we have some parallel private clinics too which we can go to once the system fails which is quite often. Especially when the matters are a bit more serious! So you end up paying twice. Once in taxes to keep up the public system and once for the private care that you eventually have to seek because the public system is inadequate.
ritamalik 3 years ago 2
Let me educate all you americans on something. First of all, these people on these waiting lists have the option of going to another province or another city to get their tests done quicker. I'd like to see them bitch once they have to pay the outrageous prices you do in the USA.
ShadowRules9000 3 years ago
I've tried going to another province for care and it's not that simple. Furthermore, specialists in other provinces are overwhelmed. Often they do not want to take on additional patients from other provinces, and this includes persons with serious illnesses. Getting tests quicker? I've waited up to 7 months to see a specialists in another province to be sent home (no help), and have waited over a year to see a specialist in the province I live.
lizzielou73 3 years ago
It's easier than you think, it depends on how nice of a family doctor you have. Stop bitching, I mean we get healthcare for FREE. Everyone gets treated the same rich and poor. That doesn't happen in the USA, remember that the next time you want to criticize Canadian healthcare. Sure it may not be the best, but it is better than MOST people in the world have.
ShadowRules9000 3 years ago
No, ShadowRules, it's not that easy. My family doctor is not the problem. He's an excellent doctor. GPs have difficulty getting patients referrals in and out of province. I have a serious lung condition and fight every day. As for free healthcare, my family and I have paid plenty out of pocket, and we also pay high taxes, so its not free. I actually go without specialised respiratory care at this time, as I do not have a respiratory specialist.
lizzielou73 3 years ago
Recently, it took well over a year, 15 months to be exact get into see another specialist, and I'm now waiting to see others for my CF, so think about the Canadians who are suffering before you speak of what you do not understand. I have a form of cystic fibrosis and have been told due to the bed shortage that I can no longer receive in hospital tune-ups. Furthermore, think of the frustrated family doctors who are trying their best in a system suffering from a lack of resources.
lizzielou73 3 years ago
Yes actually it is. My mother worked for 30 years in the healthcare industry,m retired last year. It certainly is easy.
ShadowRules9000 3 years ago
I've dealt with hospitals much of my life for severe lung disease and it has not been that easy for my doctors who are very good physicians, for my family and friends.
lizzielou73 3 years ago
Maybe, but my mother worked it every day for 32 years, I'm gonna believe her over you. I think she knows better than you do.
ShadowRules9000 3 years ago
Good luck to you and stay healthy. Your mother may have dealt with the system as a health care professional, but my family and I have dealt with it for longer than your mom's career. My parents fought for my care when I was a child, and I continue to do so now. I've have required many procedures, have has to see many doctors, have stayed in various hospitals, many hospital stays, home care, etc.
lizzielou73 3 years ago
Our healthcare system is broken and when many Canadians need help they can not receive it in a timely manner even for a life threatening illness.
lizzielou73 3 years ago
Sorry, you have no idea what you are talking about. You think we have it so bad? Go to the USA where you have to pay for every little thing. We have it pretty good and it's time people like you stopped complaining. Maybe if every person who had a sniffle or a cold didn't go to the hospital we'd have shorter wait times than we do.
ShadowRules9000 3 years ago
I know way more than you could imagine, as I've had a great many experiences with our healthcare system in Canada with my own illness and my mother's, she has Alzheimer's. yes, I do think we have it bad. When you are sick and cannot get a hospital bad and need one badly for a bronchiectasis and CF tune up, than you know we have it bad. My family and I have had to pay thousands in Canada pertaining to healthcare, not everything is "free" here.
lizzielou73 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Waaaa Waaaa you sound like a bloody baby, grow up. You don't like it here, MOVE! Geez, you wanna complain that's fine you're one person in 36 million bud. The VAST majority, and yes I mean VAST majority of people in this country get excellent medical care.
ShadowRules9000 3 years ago
When you have to pay thousands of dollars to see a doctor in the USA for treatment then you can complain. Because right now you have absolutely no reason to. I know all about the healthcare system here, I also have had a lot of family in and out of the hospital their whole lives so I have seen it.
ShadowRules9000 3 years ago
As I said before, my mother worked in it for 32 years everyday, that adds up to a great deal of time seeing how it works. When even she says we have it better than the USA I'm a bit more inclined to believe her than some whiny bozo who just wants to bitch. Move to the States if you think they have it so good. Stop wasting our tax dollars on your sickly family then.
ShadowRules9000 3 years ago
I don't think that the idea is that Canada should stop paying for care. Instead I think the idea is to legalize private care for whoever wants it. I think the fear here is that, richer Canadians faced with a choice will say, "I don't use the government payed facilities, why should I pay for their healthcare?"
Well that is just not going to happen. The gap between the rich and the poor is very heavily buffered by a big middle class. This is just socialist propaganda, verging on the communist.
Fun247247 3 years ago
I don't know where in Canada you live but there is no middle class anymore. There's rich and there is working poor and dirt poor.
ShadowRules9000 3 years ago 2
And your point is!? It's worse in the USA-there is no middle class here either anymore and there is NO safety net. At least in Canada you have something for the less fortunate.
johnnymark616 3 years ago
fuck you, commie piece of shit
Northgrant 3 years ago
You don't even know what a commie is douchebag so go crawl back under your uneducated american rock and shut the fuck up while those of us in the real world debate intelligently. ASSHOLE.
ShadowRules9000 3 years ago 4
Nobody wants to die anymore in your fucking line ups.
Northgrant 3 years ago
What line ups
9660104 2 years ago
yes the more i look at this video, the more it doesn't add up. i couldn't help but notice a few of the things he says, including our views of American health care, are wrong. first off, this was made during the BRIEF time that the USA's idea of socialized health care was growing, a LOT of businesses in America would go bankrupt if they did switch, so i wouldn't doubt that this video was funded by medical officials to scare people into closing their minds about the whole ordeal.
NiagaraWarrior 2 years ago
what i would like to point out is that, if you believe this video (through all its upbeat patronizing music, and green screens) then you should definitely watch two other videos. one came out very recently. of course most of you probably wont watch them becuase you'd assume this "documentary" is accurate... its not. sure Socialized health care wont work for America, but check out
"Canadians talk to Americans about health care" AND "Union Presentation: US vs. Canada Healthcare" on youtube
NiagaraWarrior 2 years ago
Complete BS. Just had a major car accident and had great access to health care.
MRI, surgery, and physio(under extended plan which costs 354 a year)
If a person chooses to argue a point using an extreme example as this video does. They usually have a very weak argument.
That's debating 101
shawakwak 3 years ago
Um...i don't think you watched the video. They never talk about ER, this is major non ER operations. Like "hey you need knee surgery, we will get to it in 2 years."
Fatal616 3 years ago
The Canadians don't have the best system but the fact is, there is no waiting list for the underprivileged in the US.
Obviously the best health care belongs to Europe and a very few far east Asian and Middle eastern countries.
sullenboy1o3o 4 years ago
Obviously?
r58black 4 years ago
obviously you are a moron.
sinkambala 3 years ago
Do you have a rebuttal?
sullenboy1o3o 3 years ago
all some people do is complain..complain..and complain, without doing any real effort to change stuff :) Of course, conditions would be even better if everyone paid more taxes, but hm what comes then, more complaining? YES. Get a job within politics and make a change!
ramaskrik 4 years ago
Get a job within politics? How about get a real job outside of politics? Stop parasitically supporting homo sapiens politicus parasiticus.
r58black 4 years ago
Another way to help: Have physicians write off free care they give as a loss against their income tax. If I bill a patient and he can't pay, I can't write it off. If I could write it off, I'd gladly treat 10 a week. If all physcians did that, it would take care of a lot of uninsured patients.
tribiggs 4 years ago
That sounds like a pretty good idea to me! Tax incentives usually have a positive effect on whatever they are applied to.
hjgardner79 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
pure propaganda, no real argument at all.
Pretty good cinematography tho
zombiemaster8825 4 years ago
So these people are imagining the miserable waits, are they?
baumsy18 4 years ago 5
Hehe.
I'm a broke-ass U.S. citizen, and like all other broke-ass U.S. citizens, I can already get free healthcare, and it is of much better quality than what I have heard Canadian visitors speak of in my taxi. It only requires a couple hours investigation on the internet and phone calls, a little perseverance.
Canadians are so proud of their system, but when you hear them talk about it (in person), it just reminds you how lucky you are to be in the U.S.A.
Ron Paul, my man.
BooKittyRadley 4 years ago
And yes, much of the free healthcare here is already paid with tax money. But if government got out of it and left people to their own devices, I'd bet good money on three things: people would start taking ALOT better care of themselves, health care costs would go down, and we would see a drastic decrease in the number of folk in need of medical care.
BooKittyRadley 4 years ago
I'm giving you a virtual medal: we need more people who want to grow up and take care of themselves rather than have a perpetual government parent take care of them so they can remain adolescents their entire lives.
baumsy18 4 years ago
I've experienced something of an realization these last couple of years and that is that people rarely do what is good for them. If the Canadian government were to stop taxing people as much and fully privatize healthcare I can see a situation where faced with the decision of whether to pay their cable bill or their insurance, a citizen would pay for their cable. People are generally retarded especially when they are well and have no worries. That said, I am for private-by-choice care only.
Fun247247 3 years ago
"People are generally retarded especially when they are well and have no worries." -- Classic leftist contempt for humanity in general. That is EXACTLY the kind of thinking that leads to socialism, communism, and nationalized health care. That people are "generally retarded," so they need government to usurp the property of productive private citizens in order to amass the resources to take care of everyone.
MiloDC 2 years ago
I know this is an old comment, but I had to chuckle at your idealistic assumption that people would take better care of themselves if they didn't have socialized medicine. Have you BEEN to the U.S.? Most Americans treat their cars better than they treat their own bodies. We spend more time watching TV than we do exercising. We eat like we're eating for two people. We binge drink and chain smoke and eat some of the worst food on the planet. As a result, health care costs are insane.
anonymoususer1234567 2 years ago
Well technically we dont smoke nearly as much as most European countries.
But you're definately right that we treat our cars much better than we treat our bodies XD
toshzpelta 2 years ago
You know nothing cabbie, go back to pakistan please.
ShadowRules9000 3 years ago
The people who have posted comments that are pro-socialized medicine can be classified in two categories:
1.) Someone who doesn't work and would appreciate it if the working people in the US paid for their healthcare, since they are, in fact, too lazy to work themselves.
2.) The most uninformed, uneducated, liberal minded crazies this world has to offer. We currently see how socialized medicine fails... Yet we want to destroy one of the greatest systems in the world for eminent failure?
CornFedFiddler 4 years ago 4
Holy shit you're stupid.
ShadowRules9000 3 years ago
It should be a sign to us that something is wrong with our healthcare system when insuarnce companies are rewarding medical reviewers with bonuses and promotions when they out-deny their peers.
CheeksKT 4 years ago
This film is quite misleading, it only represents SPECIALISTS doctors in Canada. Surgeries and operations in Canada do not normally take months or years, but if you want to request a certain specialists then you will have to wait. While that does indeed pose a problem, as an American, I would gladly take that over our current healthcare system where you can be denied a health care because insurance companies want acheive the highest profits posssible.
CheeksKT 4 years ago
You do realize that heart attacks are one of the leading medical problems faced by Americans?
And we look to cardiologists for help.
Are you saying doctors in specialized fields are not important?
And your comment "surgeries in canada do not normally take months or years."
Lets just say I had a good friend who's appendix burst.
May I reiterate the "had".
CornFedFiddler 4 years ago 4
Thank's again for uploaing.
To curtin...the alternative to 'Universal' healthcare is to pay for it. Also, the old saying 'an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure' comes to mind.
BooKittyRadley 4 years ago
This movie is a good case study of the reason free market capitalism just works. Theres no way to escape economic law.
toolshed333 4 years ago 4
Instead of bashing Universal Healthcare, how about suggesting an alternative to it?
curtin1234567 4 years ago
If everyone would get off their lazy ass and get a job and pay for health care like everyone else does that would solve one problem, Doctors are overpaid for practicing medicine if they are so good at it why then-do they call it PRACTICE? Im a professional at what I do but they aren't lol. Just because this is America doesn't everything should be free. Public funded...who is the public? Tax payers are, how about a 10-20% increase in taxes for every american family to have free health care.
ChadA4MG 4 years ago 4
I would suggest having copays proportional to the price of care would cause the insured consumer to care about the price of care/drugs, thus introducing market forces and thereby lowering costs. If this happened insurance would be cheaper and more could aford it. Perhaps some health care money is warented for the dirt poor. Universal health care = Crappy care for everyone.
DrBuzz0 4 years ago
An alternative would be tax incentives for those who purchase coverage.
An alternative would be refusing to work jobs who do not provide benefits, which would force them to become competitive and offer health coverage.
An alternative would be the system we have now. We have one of the best healthcare systems in the world, no matter how you look at it. It could be tweaked, but its not doing a bad job now.
CornFedFiddler 4 years ago
Health savings accounts is another option.
bmtimv 4 years ago
People seem to hate that a profit can be made from providing an effective service, it always has to be one side suffering to please some, it seems
rambo26 4 years ago 4
What i don't get is this: we don't have to copy Canada's or any country's system. We could build a better one and learn from what is wrong in other health care systems. But the current US system sucks big time. Not the doctors, but how it is managed by profit-oriented corporations.
AnimalAndy 4 years ago
AnimalAndy: We've already figured out what's wrong with other health care systems--they're government-funded. The incentive system is upside down. This happens every time the costs of goods and services aren't borne directly by the people who use them. See his video "A Short Course in Brain Surgery" for details.
nine9s 4 years ago 4
The reason the US system sucks big time is because we try to provide "Universal" (Socialist) healthcare.
Socialists and idiots believe that healthcare is immune to economic laws. It's not.
baboojackal 4 years ago 6
Hm... So making your health a good that you might or might not be able to pay for according to your income seems to be preferable to a system where people care for each other and a society that supports their weaker members? Well, I'll pay for universal healthcare any day, as i accept the police and fire department being run "socialized".
AnimalAndy 4 years ago
What can we learn? That socialist healthcare doesn't work!
Guess what, I'd gladly fly in an aircraft made by boeing or airbus. They're safe and efficient. Made by private profit-oriented corporations.
Would I fly in a Soviet-era Russian airliner? HELL NO! Made by a non-profit socialist governent.
All the food you eat and gods you use probably came from profit-oriented corporations. That's why it's safe and works well: If not the company goes under
DrBuzz0 4 years ago
PS...The $358 we pay mnthly is in addition to the extremely high taxes charged to cover the "free" healthcare.
cheddagedda 4 years ago
'04 moved to Canada from U.S. where I had Kaiser ins. I'm a victim of socialized med. & it's not free..you pay $108 a month for free care. + We pay $250mnth for supplementary care to help pay medications & dental. $358mnth is more than Kaiser was& care is not 1/10th quality. I needed MRI here/wait list was 8 mnths. Pd.$1000 for a private one. They botched surgery on my neck which forced me to go to the US to have it fixed, costing us $35,000!
cheddagedda 4 years ago 2
I'm wiling to bet lizzielou73 isn't Canadian at all. I wish youtube posted IPS. so we coudl confirm this. I've had friends with everything. Heart Conditions, Sports Injuries, genetic problems. I know there's issues in canada ( or we'd be number 1 on the list ) but I woudlnt' rade out system for the American system any day. It's just appalling that your life or death is in the hands of a 'for profit' HMO.....
shawakwak 4 years ago
Please ignore the portion about lizzelou73. It's an obvious mistake. Good luck lizzielou73.
shawakwak 4 years ago
IPS is meaningless. Everyday millions of planes leave various destinations all over the globe placing many people who say they are one thing in places that are totally not descriptive of who they are and where they come from. Example; I am Welsh, I reside in Florida right now and my IPS would say that I am currently in Egypt. Genius!
Fun247247 3 years ago
How much you wanna bet that American HMO's paid for this film?
sylmar777lxmg 4 years ago
I'm not sure that's true. Stuart's just a liberatarian. I don't fault him for his beliefs. I actually agree with some of the stuff CATO comes out with. It's just the film is very bad. The more anecdotal street interviews you have, the less substance you have. in this case I suspect it's true.
shawakwak 4 years ago
(cont'd) The waits portrayed here are awful, but Canadians DO have access to free care when many people in the states (many whom I know personally) never get the services they need, or are flooded with the subsequent bills. There HAS TO BE SOMETHING BETTER than the corrupt HMOs currently controlling this system.
turbulentskyy 4 years ago
We do not have access to free care in Canada, because we are heavily taxed and the system does not cover everything. The waits are terrible, people do sometimes die waiting, some important cancer treatments are not covered in some provinces, because we do not have a truly universal healthcare system, and 5 million Canadians are without a family doctor, so necessary for access to basic healthcare. Canadian healthcare is in a way like a giant HMO monopoly.
lizzielou73 4 years ago 2
SiCKO doesn't contend that Canada has all the answers, but rather we can use what does work from each system to devise our own in the US (Belgium, from this, would be a great example of a country to emulate).
turbulentskyy 4 years ago
I think this is a great documentary, and gives a lot of good food for thought. I think it should be shown alongside Michael Moore's Sicko so that viewers really understand the problems with both systems...Moore's movie pretends that waiting lists are a lie propagated by the insurance companies and conservatives.
megalomaniageek 4 years ago
Exactly, megalomaniageek.
lizzielou73 4 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
In SiCKO, Moore succinctly points out the absurdity of the "we will all have to wait in line" argument against socialized medicine. In the U.S., wait times for some things may be quicker (if you are one of the fortunate ones), because 47,000,000 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN REMOVED FROM THE LINE. Seriously! I wonder if some of you people critiquing the film have even seen it. or maybe you saw it, but didn't WATCH it. Everyone who thinks some people should go without health care deserves a chronic disease.
baronmorris 4 years ago
I'm Canadian and would like to add that this film is actually a highly accurate portrayal of Canadian healthcare. My health problems are severe and I've had the run around trying to get the necessary care and have waited months to receive necessary care only to get turned down for follow up for my chronic lung disease that I've had since childhood.
lizzielou73 4 years ago 3
Canada is nonetheless ranked well above the U.S. in health care. Canada = 30th U.S = 37th so I don't suggest you come to the U.S. unless you are filthy rich, and even then, to defend our pay for care system is to condemn the poor to suffer needlessly in the richest country of the world. shameful.
baronmorris 4 years ago
If the Canadian system were so excellent I would not be coming to the US in the fall for care that I'm not receiving in Canada and I'm not wealthy.
lizzielou73 4 years ago 2
Well if you're poor in Canada. You're going to be broke when your care is done in the US. Good luck paying for it.
shawakwak 4 years ago
baronmorris, I'm poor in Canada and I'm suffering through lack of care for my lungs, so you are saying its okay for the poor in Canada to suffer and to die waiting for care?
lizzielou73 4 years ago
Truly sorry to hear about your illness. Apparently you are able to afford better care (tho I would hesitate to say you are "lucky" given your condition). If the public care in Canada (which is ranked only slightly ahead of the US and is not therefore the ideal model of socialized medicine) is failing you, imagine being poor in USA - you would have even less care. Hope you heal up. PEACE.
baronmorris 4 years ago
I would actually have more and better care in the US. The US has some excellent cystic fibrosis programs and all of my American friends have a vest (google it - vest airway clearance system). None of my Canadian CF friends has a vest for their physio, because its deemed too expensive in Canada. The US also has a much better track record with cancer treatments some are not even covered in Canada and Canadians do die as a result.
lizzielou73 4 years ago
yes, but my point is that in the US you only get this care if you can afford to PAY for it. Also, there are variables other than the integrity of the health care system that affect availability of care - for instance, there are only 3000 people in Canada with C.F. and more than 30,000 in the U.S. Perhaps this is one of the factors that explains your difficulty. Finally, raise your voice to improve the flaws in your nation's health care system. Hopefully we will be doing the same. PEACE!
baronmorris 4 years ago
The government is very much aware of my healthcare problems and difficulties in accessing healthcare. Thank you!
lizzielou73 4 years ago
two words. tommy douglas.
baronmorris 4 years ago
Unfortunately, Tommy is no longer with us and in modern day Canada his plan is not working well.
lizzielou73 4 years ago
Cuba is rated 39 ... how can a dirt poor 3rd world company come close to the USA .... the richest country in the world.
pvukosavljev 4 years ago