God does not "allow" anything, he does it himself, to say otherwise is to say that things happen without gods permission, which in turn removes gods omnipotence and therefore is not a god at all.
why did god create a universe as terribly large as it is, with structures devoid of life hundreds of times larger than the earth, and only set aside a tiny mote of dust within it for us to inhabit?
atheism does not make positive claims, and it can NOT be debunked. the only way you can "debunk" atheism, is by "bunking" religion. in other words, the only thing you can do to prove religion is right, is by proving religion is right.
your imaginary skydaddy is cruel, and morally inferior to the average human. your pretend, fake, man-made skydaddy allows people to suffer, while you claim he loves them.
we are just pointing out how illogical your beliefs about your skydaddy are.
Also, how can someone give an infinite punishment to someone who is finite? Nobody on this Earth has done ANYTHING deserving of eternal hell, not even Hitler.
My thoughts are opposite, I don't ask "why" at all. I feel like the "why" is void because nobody will ever know "why". I go with evidence, which i'm sure you've heard. I go by what is seen and tested to be true.
Holy shit. It boggles my mind that we still have people living among us that don't understand how absurd this is. If they ever become atheists later in life, they are going to look back at the things they've said and facepalm themselves so hard that they break their noses.
Anything that is eternal will get boring. One a more serious note now...you know why the bible says the poor will rule the earth and heavens? Simply cos they NEED poverty in this world. And the bible and religion just gives them a bit of incentive. This just proves my thinking of what religion was engineered for. So the so called "chosen" ones can live in bliss and riches on this world.
I dont know if God exists or not. All i know is religion (the human interpretation) is full of B.S.
does this mean that we shouldn't help the less fortunate? I think you have just accidentally stumbled across one of the greatest problem with religion.
I'm just going to assume this dickhead learned a new word in his English class and wanted to prove how great he was by showing it off to the rest of the world.
while i'm not an atheist i find ur argument as just more of the same excuses that not just muslims but christians and other groups say to justify there so called beliefs. U haven't convinced me to reconvert back.
@SamiZaatari I think a theist will accept that answer but to an athiest It sounds like something made up cause it's not covered properly in any of the religous texts.
your god is an idiot if he thinks being tormented "tested" during our lives is supposed to get us closer to him. and you're saying there's compensation for being stillborn...what the fuck? Unnecessary garbage. You're making special pleads for this fake ass 'eternal life', which is another ridiculous concept. How could one be eternally happy, not bored or anxious, rich and secure? That doesn't make any sense. When you're eternal, you're no longer yourself to give a shit.
The only argument I can see that you are making is that "Well god is going to sort everything out in the end so why bother helping poor people. They will get a reward when they are dead so there is no reason for me to lift a finger"
Come to think of it, in your view it is good to be poor as that will bring more people to salvation in the end. We should actually actively be engaged in expanding poverty among as many people as possible as that will bring the most souls to salvation. Brilliant!
I'm assuming that someone who is being 'tested' in these ways goes to hell if they fail the test by denouncing god.
If those who past the test (the compensated) receive an eternal life of happiness as a reward, is that a greater or equal reward than that of the same person who hasn't had to endure the same hardship (i.e. a healthy person who was nevertheless faithful)?
Is it then really compensation if everyone who chooses to believe gets the same reward?
Are all the people living in poverty in India compensated? They go to hell, according you. The majority of people who have ever lived didn't believe in your god. They all go to hell. Was that compensation for their suffering? In accordance with your own world view, not only will most people never be compensated, but most with experience endless anguish as compensation for finite and understandable transgressions. EPIC FAIL, as the kids like to say.
you justify real world troubles with fantasy land promises? what would be the point of riches after death? what would they mean eternally? I always find it so ironic that to sell the supernatural being that's supposed to outside of everything natural, the most material and selfishly appealing things to this physical world are used.
Belief is something else than religion. Religion kills people and belief in doing good helps people. Am I an atheist then? I don't care what one calls it. A good person knows what's good and what's wrong.
There's a god. Show me some evidence. God compensates the poor and weak. Show me some evidence. God made a heaven for all those that suffer. Show me some evidence. God is testing us. Show me some evidence!!!!!! Theists simply do not realize that they are making this shit up as they go along.
If god exists, he most surely is a despicable character. Malign and malicious throughout the history of his word. But, that is not the "first" argument raised by atheists. In fact its not raised at all. Whether we like god or not has nothing to do with whether he exists or not. Same as you not liking evolution does not make it less true. There is no evidence for god. End of story.
Of course, you'd have to provide actual evidence about this "something better at the end" you speak of. But it's bad enough that you try to rationalize needless suffering of your fellow humans in this way. Basically, you're preying on these people to bolster your own bullshit-filled hypocritical mindset. Disgusting.
Wrong. The main atheist argument is: why won't believers bring forward evidence for their god?
Naturally, from there you can proceed to the why's, the hows, and so on.
Adressing your specific argument: If your god is supposedly omniscient, why the heck would he need to test anything? At best you can conclude your god is a fucked up being that somehow enjoys seeing people suffer while trying to pass his test. Your reasoning is (as always), flawed. Sorry Sami, but you failed again.
A god created a person with retardation or fatal illness to test them? And since when are these people the same as the poor? Examine your argument and realize that's not only extremely foolish, but sick and twisted as well.
Thats compleately stupid, let me say. All that shit about the test the only thing that debunks is the omnisient part of your stupid god, why he have to test anyone, doesnt he already knows the answer? and again, if god is going to give all these poor people a compensation, why the fuck he has to let them suffer and rot till they die first??
Even if you are right about spending eternity in heaven and all the other unsubstanciated assertions, can you get your head around the concept of eternity, Sami? A google is a one with one million zeros on the end of it. Now that in years is something people can't even get their head around of how long that is. You could mathematically say that a google to the power of google is less than 0.0% of infinity. I don't care how good your heaven is, I wouldn't wish that undying curse on anyone.
For this to be true you have to assume that all the poor and sick ppl believe in not only god but the "correct" god. Which is certainly not true. There are sick and poor ppl from all over the world with different religions so your argument makes no sense for extremely obvious reasons.
Haha, actually just rewatched this. This dude says that the poor will prosper in heaven when they die. So basically, what you're saying is, if you just fuck around here on earth, and don't make anything of yourself, not contribute to our way of life, or to be blunt, be a fucking BUM! You'll be rewarded in heaven? That sounds like a great way to create a long lived society, well done. I guess if everyone followed what you just said, we'd have everyone pushing to be the biggest loser possible
The problem: humans look around and see that life is grossly unfair (eg children born into suffering and death). Thus your made up deity and his made up characteristics are at odds with reality.
Your soultion: make up more rubish about an afterlife.
Religion is a fairy tale that was invented for people that are afraid of the dark. Your rebuttal to the atheist point of view is half weakly understood religious knowledge, half false logic, and complete fucking hogwash. Look up the terms "burden of proof" and "circular reasoning". I'll think for you.
Sam, you're going in the completely wrong direction from the very start of this video. The atheist argument ISN'T the "how and the why". This is blatantly incorrect. The How/Why question tries to examine why a god would allow suffering, since that would make him NOT omnibenevolent, and thus not the Christian god described in the bible. The atheist argument is ACTUALLY that since religion doesn't meet the burden of proof, the reasonable conclusion is to refuse to believe. Stop lying.
hmm, really? because the argument that alot of athiest i see is "there is absolutley no sciencetific evidence" argument. but since you don't understand what stuff like "logic" and "reason" i guess that argument is useless
"It doesn't matter if you believe in it or not, it still refutes your argument." Now you now how I feel when I bring up scientific evidence which points to a universe 13 billion years old, only to be told "I don't believe in that science."
@SamiZaatari While I don't agree with the premise or conclusion you've expressed, I think you've done a good job of showing that most theist views are, at the very least, largely self-consistent, which many atheists wrongly assume to be otherwise. Well done.
They will be compensated 'hypothetically', and the only way to test that hypothesis is to die as a worshiper of a deity, in this case to die as a Muslim with Allah as your deity.
Do you not see how big of an assumption you have made? What if dying as a Muslim doesn't compensate you for your suffering, what if a different scenario occurs when you die.
You can never be 100% sure so don't expect other people to just take a religion's word for it.
Your problem with this video is that you initially assume that everything from the Quaran is true.
You completely evade the evidence of how you know it's true and that the poor and the disease addled children will go to the "kingdom of god" because your book says so.
You haven't rebuked the so called "top arguement" because you replied with the stupidest thing a Theist could say.
"This magical book say's so therefore it's true"
Really dude? I'm 15 years old and i can see through this bullshit
SamiZaatari seems to miss the point of the Problem of Evil Objection. Why would a god create people to live horrible lives of suffering in the first place? It doesn't matter what happens to them afterwards, but what is happening to then in the here-and-now.
Regardless, this mode of discourse is tainted by a garbage-in garbage-out problem. Asking questions that appeal to occult concepts only result in occult-laden answers. Better to treat religious doctrine as fiction.
The top argument is "Where's the evidence". Show us some evidence for your god. Not just any god, but your particular variety. Faith in what an old book says is not evidence.
You don't know if you're "being tested". You have faith that you are. Where's the evidence?
If you seriously believe that 10 or 20 or 30 years or whatever amount of quantifiable time spent poor is ok because it will be compensated in the next life why dont you go purposely become bankrupt for the rest of your life.
after all the invisible bearded white man in the sky says ''its all good''
meanwhile i'll be chilling in my nice warm apartment, with warm food and good health. I'll be perfectly happy in my 'ignorance'
@SamiZaatari Sorry, but your argument is complete bullshit. People can suffer in the only life proven to be real, so they will be happy in an imaginary playground? Nonsense, and you know it.
@SamiZaatari I think you've been running into some ignorant atheist. Most atheist I've run into aren't atheist because the world is cruel. They are atheist because they don't see empirical evidence to support a belief in a theistic God. Those few who do make that argument don't refute the possibly if God exist he might test us, it only begs the question to what could we learn from watching our children die. If I was all powerful and loving I'd think of a better way to teach people.
@SamiZaatari Also the atheist only need ask where is your proof of compensation. How do you know you will be rewarded for your trials in kingdom of God. Why does the rich wealthy faithful person get the same reward as the poor suffering faithful?
@SamiZaatari I also don't think it refutes my arguments to ask for evidence to support your evidence. If you say suffering in short term is rewarded in the eternal paradise, it's not unreasonable to ask for your evidence of an eternal paradise.
I would like to ask a question but need to make sure I understand the argument. I assumed the video presented the following...Q:Why are misfortunate lives lived out on earth? A:Because compensation will be given in the form of spending eternity in a paradise (I assumed heaven). A quote from the bible and affirmation from the quran were presented as your references.
-Can you confirm that this is an accurate or inaccurate video paraphase?
@SamiZaatari Where is your proof for that? Hardly surprising, given that you can't distinguish fact from fiction and provide proof for anything. Don't flatter yourself. Also, this isn't the top argument. You just state it to be because you have an answer for it.
So if I give "them" something better at the end and give them something better right now as well, Im logically a more compassionate person than your god, dear Sami. Right?
In such a case it unequivocally logically follows that Allah cant exist as the most compassionate, most beneficent one... Challenge was met. Game over, Sami! :-)
@Wrath0fKhan challenge hasn't been met because you haven't given them anything better right now, a hypothetical made up scenario doesn't count as meeting a challenge.
"because you havent given them anything better right now"
What? First; its just a game of words. Since I can conceive "it", you implicitly are pulling the short one. Second, in fact, "we" (or even myself) have given those people more than they could have ever got from their "deity." Food, medicine, education.
So you and your deity is not only losing a game of words, you guys are losing "measurably."
"hypothetical made up scenario doesnt count as meeting a challenge"
Yes it does. Thats because your scenario is hypothetical only, too. Yet as Ive already said, you and your deity have already demostrably lost the actual scenario (at least the assessable part) as well.
@Wrath0fKhan no my situation is not hypothetical, it will happen, you as an atheist can't cherry pick asking why does bad stuff happen, then ignore the answer that is also given. you made your situation up, you will help nobody.
I "can" provide evidence. Its you who cant do that. Yet you could. You know; hadith qudsi 35 would totally deliver if your results were better than the "background noise." Its easy for Allah, right? And "he" promises to do so as well (as an obligation upon himself). So why do you guys and gals keep failing? Its because your concept of Allah is a total and demonstrable failure.
@SamiZaatari the back and forth between Wrath0fKhan and yourself made me wonder: How is Wrath's situation hypothetical and yours isn't? Have you visited the afterlife recently? No one knows what happens to us when we die because the only people who would know are, well, dead. The only "proof" you have a claim to comes from a god, of whom no one has seen, met, or even heard from outside of a "holy book"- and there are as many different holy books as mice, each making claim that their god is right
@SamiZaatari and to your actual "argument", it is more incensing than i can fully express. telling me that a benevolent being with the power to create a universe can allow starvation, cancer, genocide, biggotry, and any other suffering because he'll give them better later? It's preposterous. Using your same logic, people who live an amazing life, never a care in the world, regardless of how kind they are to others, will be doomed to suffering for eternity
@SamiZaatari no your wrong, see, i believe, and will always believe that humans must evolve so we can fill the universe with our imagination. so we can end all existential angst and truly understand everything. become gods you might say. but religion and stupidity are reigning supreme and it makes me and many others like me suffer because your too stupid to try and understand life with me. god does not love you, i love you we must learn to love eachother. god is simply a metaphor for that
@cyrusjerome Congratulations, you just described spirituality without going into all the religion aka. "belief without evidence" bullshit. 1000+ internets to you.
@fundslender who gave you dat brain to think surely it couldnt have come by chance whould you say the same thing about a laptop that have to prove that the laptop has a creater before i go on about its damges and repairs it needs which needs a booklet as a guidence
@SuperL1on The difference between my laptop's guidance book (which was man made), and life's guidance book (which was also man made), is that when I'm reading my laptop guidance book, there are no loopholes, or contradictions in it. There are no parts of it that if I question it, the laptop company says, "Oh, that part isn't to be taken literally.". Next...
@fundslender the quran has no loop holes or contradictions and when it is said dont take it litaley your supposed to look at the context of each verse this is why ur bieng ignorent ur jumping to conclusions with out knowlage. e.g. the part to fix the laptop has a reason whyit must be there dosnt it so this is where ur contradicting ur self
@SuperL1on Didn't take me long to find just ONE contradiction, outside of the original one of actually existing!
Says:
(4:78)
".... If some good befalls them, they say "This is from Allah". But if evil, they say "This is from thee" (O prophet). Say: "All things are from Allah....."*
Then says:
(4:79)
"Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah. But whatever evil happens to thee, is from thyself"
god is testing us? why does he need to test us if he is all knowing?
so if someone sells all their stuff and throws away their money they will go to heaven? also what if a child dies just after child birth due to the lack of health of the mother(stay with me) and because of Adam and eve stealing an apple god would punish all of their descendants even ones that hadn't been born yet(still here?) which means(correct me if i'm wrong) people have well... pre-sin and go to hell.(again i may be wrong)
The passage is actually "The MEEK shall inherit the earth." In any case, if only the meek are to be compensated, whats in it for the other believers who have complete use of their limbs and are capable of 'intelligent' thought? if what you say is true, then they're screwed. And if the meek are to inherit the earth, then Stephen Hawking is gonna rule it. Im not sure that sits well with any theist.
What are we being tested for? Faith? If god wanted people to believe in him, he would prove himself to be real beyond doubt. And by the way, if poor people are compensated in heaven by god who made them poor in the first place, you must not be getting compensated when you go to heaven because you don't look too poor to me.
Actually the best atheist argument and really the only atheist argument is a question of where. As in "Where is your proof?". A question that has yet to be answered by any theist
when you die you, you rot in the ground. it's not a bad thing, don't be so terrified of death that you turn to something illogical to make you feel okay about it. its not like you can even care that you are dead when your body is laying there roting. you're wasting your time.
So, what you're saying is, that god the almighty created humans, make them suffer, and then take them to heaven?
My question is: Why the heck does he put people through misery at all? He is supposed to be almighty. If he wanted us the best he would CREATE us IN paradise to avoid any misery at all.
@Xx3Zzz not that i agree with the bible idear but what about the adam and eve idear created in paradise that they then destroyed through there own lack of self control not that i believe it ever happened but good answer
If there is proof of God why is there so many religions? My evidence that God does not exist is the fact that there is so many right religions. Common sense says they're all wrong because there is not 1 absolute religion. Why would he want everyone on this planet creating wars over him? Why are people dying for him? I thought he died for us and why doesn't he do it again to set the record straight? He's not perfect if he was he'd make sure to come back and die again so his children don't die
lol, you debunked nothing. You still never explained why they had to suffer. A test? It's odd how a lot of the time the people that need tested all live in the same area. Slums, Afrika, india, China, Bangladesh... And if the tested go to heaven the same as the vibrated, why must they suffer first. God is all knowing do knows who will pass the tests. Silly religious folk.
It’s not enough to abandon Christianity because of some bad church experience, or some hypocritical friends who were called “Christians,” or fundamentalist parents who went overboard, or just the mindless desire to be “free” from religion or God or anything. (Such a desire is, of course, just an excuse to live irresponsibly and selfishly). What’s enough is the truth, which Jesus Christ said will “set you free,”The only freedom is freedom from sin, self, and eternal destruction.
The bible says "MEEK"....not "WEAK" (Matthew 5:5). Meek people can be down right wealthy, albeit easily imposed upon, but still not of the criteria you're setting forth.
Realising the spot in which this puts them, modern atheists, the so called New Atheists are actually willing to say with a straight face that something probably CAN just pop into existence without a cause. One of the New Atheists even tells his devotees, that Nothing "evolved" into, well, everything. When one reaches that level of internal confusion, it’s not a great leap to see how an intelligent person can allow h/herself to ask, “Well, if God made the universe, who made God?”
That's a really good point, actually. Can you keep up with it?
I don't care to suffer not to go to this "compensation palce" you are talking about so... Will you give me your glasses your cammera your computer and the rest of your material posesions and live a little bit more in poverty to be ( I don't remember the word in english for "merecedor", you may want to look it up) of this god's after this life gift?
Man, why do you guys come up with these contrived explanations. It's simple: Earth is not heaven, therefore we can become victims of our own mortality and evil. God does not interfere because this would nullify free will etc etc. Man theists don't even know their own side, it's hilarious.
I didn't know wierd al yankovich was a thiest. He should stick to spofing mikel jackson vids,because this was very weak.(once again a thiest trys preaching and quoting bible text as proof,complete fail
this claimsx refuted the argument of atiests,but all he did was rehash the same old bible talk. god is testing us,the reward is in end in the after life,yet he offers no proof,epic fail.
Its kinda funny how your god treats atheists with the same treatment you guys get its almost as if your god ether doesn't give a shit or it doesn't exist lol
Scientists couldn't understand how we EVOLVED from primates, when chimpanzees had one MORE chromosome than humans. This seemed to discredit evolution, because it did not seem logical to lose a chromosome when evolving. A dominant theory before mapping the chimpanzee genome was that there had been a chromosomal fusion. When mapping the chimpanzee genome finally began, scientists discovered human chromosome 2 is an exact fusion of chimpanzee chromosomes 2p and 2q.
@SamiZaatari Apart from the obvious, (the burden of proof lies with those making the claim), your assertions are obscene and immoral. Your theism is a perverted excuse for expunging believers from any guilt or obligations for "duty of care", because "God will reward them in the next life." This doctrine sick and evil.
Far from you debunking anything, it only highlights the depraved depths to which dogma will sink to recuse itself from its humane obligations - hang your head in shame!
Okay, now prove there's a Heaven. This argument may be refuted, but only on the grounds that a Heaven exists. If you don't first prove there's a Heaven, then both the argument and your rebuttal are meaningless.
or even better, what is the point in "testing" us during our lives, if god already decided to take the poor, and the weak, and leave the ones he so calls perfect to burn in hell.
think about it, IF THERE IS A GOD, he made you the way you are, for he is all mighty, and he made the weak, weak. so basically he decided already, no need to judge, just bring hell already.
so... you're telling me that a person born with mental diseases, persons who can't even think properly, they cant recognize any of the things you said, are supposed to be judged by their acts just like any of us?
basically what i am saying is, you CAN NOT, judge a person for having one arm, if YOU ARE THE ONE that only gave that person one arm at the first place, theres no test or compensation, that's just plain out stupid, retarded, and wrong.
That doesn't make sense your saying the poor shall be rewarded y? becaue your to dam lazy to reach your goals in life or make a difference in your life and you think you will be rewarded for that? lol i think the holy books are full of shit on that one, if life is pointless on earth then why even bother putting us here? your logic is unlogical in fact i will go as far to say its dam right fucked up and childish lol
I thought the saying that "the meek shall inherit the earth" was more about how people in positions of "power" are the few and should respect those they have power over as they will always be outnumbered and after they are gone... The meek will still be there.
I am an athiest and I think religion is too rigid and has to be interpreted differently in order to be different. Whereas real life can just change as needed... Religion is ignorance incarnate
Actually atheism is caused from lack of evidence not arguments if you really wanna convert atheists then pray that your god actually does something for once that tells us it exists, its very simple. All we atheists hear is ppl making cases on why we should accept these so called beliefs on a maker but yet we never hear or see anything from this actually being itself like it can't defend itself? if its so powerful why are you speaking on its behalf? why are you having to defend its existences?
@SuperTruthlover Oh please. Just because its writen in a dam book doesn't mean it really happened i don't have to buy into that BS no offense but its not my problem what the jews believe in or the stories they make up. Im from the present time like you, writen material that long ago isn't going to convince me at all besides most ppl back then obviously weren't very convinced ether so.... Whats your point?
@SuperTruthlover Well not everything in the bible is myth true but thats why its so dangerous is becaue it mixes myth with fact and it breeds confussion on our reallity it causes separation of mankind and it just can't prove itself. The chrisitan god didn't fall from the sky it was slowly created, we know there is no evidence of this god before the bible not one human being on earth acknowledged such a being until the bible was writen i think thats pretty good evidence this being was invented.
You keep making assertion without any evidence for your claims
therefore opinion
Rational atheism; Common Sense Atheism. These are just two of several contradictory terms that atheists use to begin their posts. I told an atheist, not long ago that atheism is illogical, inaccurate, incoherent and absurd. She turned this around and said the same about Christianity. Point made, in my mind. Most atheists have simply not thought through the implications of what they say they believe.
In atheism, life has no meaning, no context, no purpose and no ultimate justice.
Christianity - the philosophy preaches meaning and gives meaning
Christianity - the philosophy preaches context and our lives are lived within that context
Atheists try to tell themselves that their lives have meaning and context and purpose but IF life, the universe and everything are in fact an accident, then ultimate meaning and context and purpose are absent from all of our lives.
@SuperTruthlover This is the problem with your definition of atheism you assume its a doctrine when its just a rejection of gods or godess of any kind everything else is game for us. We can still be spiritual we can still have purpose like everyone else religion has no monoploy on any decissions mankind can have you christians or muslims just use god to make your life have purpose thats all your doing you not any different from us. Having a purpose is the only importants who cares what its for.
@wachnathan you assume its a doctrine you have stated your atheist doctrine !.all you have is a "book" thats not very consistent I have much more than a book The 66 books all agree with what we see in real life 2..its very contradictory and has lots of usless information No one has EVER proven even one contradiction exist so please show me one Every word is have value 3. there is no evidences for God _ How do you know that / you don't know about all the evidcne that exist
@SuperTruthlover I hate to be rude but life existed long before chrisianity what right do you have to step in and tell ppl what to believe what to have pupose in what to do with our own nature what to do with our bodies when you can't even get your god to actually speak? all you have is a "book" thats not very consistent its very contradictory and has lots of usless information that has no evidences thats it lol
Jesus said that finding the kingdom of Heaven is like a man who discovered a treasure in a field. That man sold everything he had in order to buy the field and gain the treasure. He was so confident that he’d found a treasure that giving up everything else was worth the risk. In reality and in hindsight, it wasn’t a risk at all because the treasure was real, it wasn’t a figment of his imagination
@SuperTruthlover Looking back at history i know exactly how you guys shared your faith you ether convert or die! Just saying no harm here, but anyways yes you have more its called faith and what its faith? Well heres my definition "faith is taking and accepting information with out evidence" you have based your life and views on the ignorants of "men" that claim they have information given to them from a war god that was obviously invented based on the history of the nostic jews.
Looking back at history i know exactly how you guys shared your faith in atheism, you ether convert or die!
Stalin killed millions and closed 1,000s of churches in addition to banning the 66 books called the word of God. Chairman Mao did the same thing alone with other atheist leaders who in all killed 120 million people in the 20th century alone. sic
Why atheists work so hard to destroy the word of God and those who accept it shows they cannot abide Christians
@SuperTruthlover Ghangis Khan killed more then that so whats your point? Your not getting it obviously the fact is you say your a real religion that saves ppl and you preach that killing is wrong but yet you comment all these double standards thats the point im trying to make is that your faith is false and it doesn't work. You can't preach to me about comandments if you can't even follow your selfs lol by the way god was worse then the devil in the bible lol
@SuperTruthlover Jesus teaches you to love everyone but yet god kills millions in the bible its nuts, your faith makes no sense at all just look how many ppl die at gods hands vs the devil? and yet you call satan evil? lol God is Stalin god is hitler god is Ghangis Khan lol your all full of crap when it comes to morality. You can argue all you want to but no one killed more ppl then your god lol not that i believe those stories ever even happened but still.
@SuperTruthlover Atheists aren't evil we are open to the evidence and we follow it thats what we do, don't get mad at us because we know the real truth. Invaildations of ones religion is insulting yes but it has to be done this bible has no authority on mankind we can figure life out with out the bible and we do infact.
Atheists aren't evil we are open to the evidence
Do you speak for all atheists?
I have not met an atheist who does anything but reject all evidence provided for God
But, if a person asked you what kind of things you'd accept, within reason, as evidence for God, what would you say? If you have nothing to offer, then you haven't thought your position through... and if you haven't done that, then can you honestly lay claim to the title atheist?
don't get mad at us because we know the real truth. Invalidation of ones religion/worldview is painful
We acknowledge God in the US as one nation under God
I know atheists think they are so smart and enlightened they don't follow the national motto (In God we trust) but hey don't get angry at men who don't follow your illogical atheist world view. Without proving God does not exist you are left with your faith alone.
This is why you must attack Christianity and Christians
@SuperTruthlover Not all americans acknowledge god, Just because you label stuff with god doesn't make it any more true. Don't say us atheists because we aren't a foundation or a church we are individuals who can't see any evidence to put faith in a prime spirit (god) thats it thats all it takes to be atheists. Funny how you keep attacking atheists as if that makes theism true lol I really wish i could convince you to realize there is no going back for me atheism i know the bible is wrong.
Your right not all Americans believe we landed on the moon or that 9/11 was an attack by those who hate our way of life. There are always a few who deny logic and reason
These people live in a fantasy world and therefore logic and reason is useless to persuade them to truth.
I agree with you about your atheism. You refuse to repent and therefore are trapped in the darkness of your thinking. I don't believe i can convince you God exists
You don't know the bible is worng or you would show your proof to the world
You have faith it is wrong and desire their that God does not exist but that is not the same as knowing.
You might say you know you mother loves you and I am sure she does but many beleive people loves them only to find out they are wrong and their faith is misplaced
Where is your evidence that 66 books of the bible are wrong?
@SuperTruthlover You've never actually read the Bible, have you. If you had, then you would not say these things.
Want proof the Bible is wrong? OK, let's start at Genesis - why are there two conflicting accounts of Creation? They can't both be right. And that's only on the first two pages. Want more? There are literally hundreds to choose from.
Do you base your morals on a book that advocates genocide, rape, slavery, sexism, homophobia, child murder and incest? What is moral about that?
There is no contradiction between Genesis 1 and 2. Genesis 1 is a detailed explanation of the six days of creation, day by day.Genesis two is a recap and a more detailed explanation of the sixth day,the day that Adam and Eve were made.The recap is stated in Gen. 2:4,This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created,in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven."Then,Moses goes on to detail the creation of Adam and Eve as is seen in verses 7 thru 24 of Gen. 2
Got any evidence to support your claim?
If not then this is false, works the same way in a court of law.
If you cannot prove "X", "X" simply isn't true
Simple Human Logic!
Enoxation 3 hours ago
Wow, a gay muslim shill, thats a new one, I've had seen women, but gay people, thats crazy...
Konicava 1 day ago
dude, what is yor problem with atheism? how can someone have a problem with atheism when we are not claming anything x)
ryonafan 1 day ago
God does not "allow" anything, he does it himself, to say otherwise is to say that things happen without gods permission, which in turn removes gods omnipotence and therefore is not a god at all.
DylanTheVillyn 1 day ago
@samiZaatari Well done for convincing yourself that you don't need to be a charitable, kind person.
jarax44 1 day ago
nice dodge. Now...
why did god create a universe as terribly large as it is, with structures devoid of life hundreds of times larger than the earth, and only set aside a tiny mote of dust within it for us to inhabit?
TuttleRed 1 day ago
atheism does not make positive claims, and it can NOT be debunked. the only way you can "debunk" atheism, is by "bunking" religion. in other words, the only thing you can do to prove religion is right, is by proving religion is right.
your imaginary skydaddy is cruel, and morally inferior to the average human. your pretend, fake, man-made skydaddy allows people to suffer, while you claim he loves them.
we are just pointing out how illogical your beliefs about your skydaddy are.
mikesomething 3 days ago
ugly.
scada67 3 days ago
Also, how can someone give an infinite punishment to someone who is finite? Nobody on this Earth has done ANYTHING deserving of eternal hell, not even Hitler.
TheKenTerry 4 days ago
My thoughts are opposite, I don't ask "why" at all. I feel like the "why" is void because nobody will ever know "why". I go with evidence, which i'm sure you've heard. I go by what is seen and tested to be true.
TheKenTerry 4 days ago
how come the bible dont mention the neanderthal man point proven and the red sea parts at certain times of the year due to the wind not jesus..
chuckthedestroyer34 4 days ago
Holy shit. It boggles my mind that we still have people living among us that don't understand how absurd this is. If they ever become atheists later in life, they are going to look back at the things they've said and facepalm themselves so hard that they break their noses.
lamface1 4 days ago
Anything that is eternal will get boring. One a more serious note now...you know why the bible says the poor will rule the earth and heavens? Simply cos they NEED poverty in this world. And the bible and religion just gives them a bit of incentive. This just proves my thinking of what religion was engineered for. So the so called "chosen" ones can live in bliss and riches on this world.
I dont know if God exists or not. All i know is religion (the human interpretation) is full of B.S.
Viktorrr001 4 days ago
hey, it's weird al!
foreverdakota1 4 days ago
that is not the top atheist argument... at all...
PirateMonkeyFilmz 4 days ago
does this mean that we shouldn't help the less fortunate? I think you have just accidentally stumbled across one of the greatest problem with religion.
Gobusgoble 4 days ago
Hey guys pedostache guy on youtube with retard IQ just debunked the work of quantum physicists with IQ's beyond his comprehension.
WeatherMaNhq 4 days ago
I'm just going to assume this dickhead learned a new word in his English class and wanted to prove how great he was by showing it off to the rest of the world.
medeyer 4 days ago
lets agree on something here.. Butter Chicken is fucking awsome!!
fantana817 5 days ago
go back to making polkas, Weird Al
im52xmax 5 days ago
while i'm not an atheist i find ur argument as just more of the same excuses that not just muslims but christians and other groups say to justify there so called beliefs. U haven't convinced me to reconvert back.
MuslimApostate 6 days ago
@SamiZaatari Whenever I come across these debates:-
The top question from atheists to theists is "Where did your god(s) come from ?"
The top question from theists to atheiests is "How did the universe begin, what caused the big bang etc?"
MrSitemaster2 1 week ago
@SamiZaatari I think a theist will accept that answer but to an athiest It sounds like something made up cause it's not covered properly in any of the religous texts.
MrSitemaster2 1 week ago
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MrSitemaster2 1 week ago
your god is an idiot if he thinks being tormented "tested" during our lives is supposed to get us closer to him. and you're saying there's compensation for being stillborn...what the fuck? Unnecessary garbage. You're making special pleads for this fake ass 'eternal life', which is another ridiculous concept. How could one be eternally happy, not bored or anxious, rich and secure? That doesn't make any sense. When you're eternal, you're no longer yourself to give a shit.
Thrashaero 1 week ago
The only argument I can see that you are making is that "Well god is going to sort everything out in the end so why bother helping poor people. They will get a reward when they are dead so there is no reason for me to lift a finger"
Come to think of it, in your view it is good to be poor as that will bring more people to salvation in the end. We should actually actively be engaged in expanding poverty among as many people as possible as that will bring the most souls to salvation. Brilliant!
Jaramide 1 week ago
That is not atheism's top argument.
BEATBOCKS1 1 week ago
@BEATBOCKS1 Totally agree, thank you! That has never been my top argument anyway.
sh823543 1 week ago
Here's something I don't get.
I'm assuming that someone who is being 'tested' in these ways goes to hell if they fail the test by denouncing god.
If those who past the test (the compensated) receive an eternal life of happiness as a reward, is that a greater or equal reward than that of the same person who hasn't had to endure the same hardship (i.e. a healthy person who was nevertheless faithful)?
Is it then really compensation if everyone who chooses to believe gets the same reward?
yellowdischarge 1 week ago
Are all the people living in poverty in India compensated? They go to hell, according you. The majority of people who have ever lived didn't believe in your god. They all go to hell. Was that compensation for their suffering? In accordance with your own world view, not only will most people never be compensated, but most with experience endless anguish as compensation for finite and understandable transgressions. EPIC FAIL, as the kids like to say.
Snakepliskinist 1 week ago
you justify real world troubles with fantasy land promises? what would be the point of riches after death? what would they mean eternally? I always find it so ironic that to sell the supernatural being that's supposed to outside of everything natural, the most material and selfishly appealing things to this physical world are used.
cane63106 1 week ago
Belief is something else than religion. Religion kills people and belief in doing good helps people. Am I an atheist then? I don't care what one calls it. A good person knows what's good and what's wrong.
jurrien75 1 week ago
There's a god. Show me some evidence. God compensates the poor and weak. Show me some evidence. God made a heaven for all those that suffer. Show me some evidence. God is testing us. Show me some evidence!!!!!! Theists simply do not realize that they are making this shit up as they go along.
labrat1807 1 week ago
If god exists, he most surely is a despicable character. Malign and malicious throughout the history of his word. But, that is not the "first" argument raised by atheists. In fact its not raised at all. Whether we like god or not has nothing to do with whether he exists or not. Same as you not liking evolution does not make it less true. There is no evidence for god. End of story.
labrat1807 1 week ago
Of course, you'd have to provide actual evidence about this "something better at the end" you speak of. But it's bad enough that you try to rationalize needless suffering of your fellow humans in this way. Basically, you're preying on these people to bolster your own bullshit-filled hypocritical mindset. Disgusting.
hellhammerz666 1 week ago
Wrong. The main atheist argument is: why won't believers bring forward evidence for their god?
Naturally, from there you can proceed to the why's, the hows, and so on.
Adressing your specific argument: If your god is supposedly omniscient, why the heck would he need to test anything? At best you can conclude your god is a fucked up being that somehow enjoys seeing people suffer while trying to pass his test. Your reasoning is (as always), flawed. Sorry Sami, but you failed again.
hellhammerz666 1 week ago
A god created a person with retardation or fatal illness to test them? And since when are these people the same as the poor? Examine your argument and realize that's not only extremely foolish, but sick and twisted as well.
Trakstar84 1 week ago
Thats compleately stupid, let me say. All that shit about the test the only thing that debunks is the omnisient part of your stupid god, why he have to test anyone, doesnt he already knows the answer? and again, if god is going to give all these poor people a compensation, why the fuck he has to let them suffer and rot till they die first??
jehovaX10 1 week ago
Even if you are right about spending eternity in heaven and all the other unsubstanciated assertions, can you get your head around the concept of eternity, Sami? A google is a one with one million zeros on the end of it. Now that in years is something people can't even get their head around of how long that is. You could mathematically say that a google to the power of google is less than 0.0% of infinity. I don't care how good your heaven is, I wouldn't wish that undying curse on anyone.
MrKov1985 1 week ago
For this to be true you have to assume that all the poor and sick ppl believe in not only god but the "correct" god. Which is certainly not true. There are sick and poor ppl from all over the world with different religions so your argument makes no sense for extremely obvious reasons.
therisingplague 1 week ago
Haha, actually just rewatched this. This dude says that the poor will prosper in heaven when they die. So basically, what you're saying is, if you just fuck around here on earth, and don't make anything of yourself, not contribute to our way of life, or to be blunt, be a fucking BUM! You'll be rewarded in heaven? That sounds like a great way to create a long lived society, well done. I guess if everyone followed what you just said, we'd have everyone pushing to be the biggest loser possible
fundslender 2 weeks ago
first of all... I CAN have my cake and eat it too, I feel sad for you, having all this cake, and not being able to eat it...
second, what about the people that have died before being able to accept god into their life? Don't they go to hell?
saris42 2 weeks ago
How about this:
I get a baby and mistreat it terribly for the first 20 years of it's life - starve it, abuse it, torment it.
Then to 'compensate' it, I provide it with a life of luxury for the rest of it's life.
To quote this idiot at 6:22 "If that's not mercy, if that's not justice, if that's not great, then I don't know what is"
Your twisted logic is a fucking disgrace to humanity and you should be ashamed.
mahmoudyzadeh 2 weeks ago
The problem: humans look around and see that life is grossly unfair (eg children born into suffering and death). Thus your made up deity and his made up characteristics are at odds with reality.
Your soultion: make up more rubish about an afterlife.
mahmoudyzadeh 2 weeks ago
Religion is a fairy tale that was invented for people that are afraid of the dark. Your rebuttal to the atheist point of view is half weakly understood religious knowledge, half false logic, and complete fucking hogwash. Look up the terms "burden of proof" and "circular reasoning". I'll think for you.
ShabookiSkittles 2 weeks ago
Sam, you're going in the completely wrong direction from the very start of this video. The atheist argument ISN'T the "how and the why". This is blatantly incorrect. The How/Why question tries to examine why a god would allow suffering, since that would make him NOT omnibenevolent, and thus not the Christian god described in the bible. The atheist argument is ACTUALLY that since religion doesn't meet the burden of proof, the reasonable conclusion is to refuse to believe. Stop lying.
spiffaz 2 weeks ago
hmm, really? because the argument that alot of athiest i see is "there is absolutley no sciencetific evidence" argument. but since you don't understand what stuff like "logic" and "reason" i guess that argument is useless
duncanfreakfanboy 2 weeks ago in playlist More videos from SamiZaatari
"It doesn't matter if you believe in it or not, it still refutes your argument." Now you now how I feel when I bring up scientific evidence which points to a universe 13 billion years old, only to be told "I don't believe in that science."
Just saying.
loccus357 2 weeks ago
@SamiZaatari While I don't agree with the premise or conclusion you've expressed, I think you've done a good job of showing that most theist views are, at the very least, largely self-consistent, which many atheists wrongly assume to be otherwise. Well done.
asankisana 2 weeks ago
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asankisana 2 weeks ago
They will be compensated 'hypothetically', and the only way to test that hypothesis is to die as a worshiper of a deity, in this case to die as a Muslim with Allah as your deity.
Do you not see how big of an assumption you have made? What if dying as a Muslim doesn't compensate you for your suffering, what if a different scenario occurs when you die.
You can never be 100% sure so don't expect other people to just take a religion's word for it.
Hard luck, try next time...
Alee869 2 weeks ago
Your problem with this video is that you initially assume that everything from the Quaran is true.
You completely evade the evidence of how you know it's true and that the poor and the disease addled children will go to the "kingdom of god" because your book says so.
You haven't rebuked the so called "top arguement" because you replied with the stupidest thing a Theist could say.
"This magical book say's so therefore it's true"
Really dude? I'm 15 years old and i can see through this bullshit
ACGuns69 2 weeks ago
SamiZaatari seems to miss the point of the Problem of Evil Objection. Why would a god create people to live horrible lives of suffering in the first place? It doesn't matter what happens to them afterwards, but what is happening to then in the here-and-now.
Regardless, this mode of discourse is tainted by a garbage-in garbage-out problem. Asking questions that appeal to occult concepts only result in occult-laden answers. Better to treat religious doctrine as fiction.
ryanlittlechilds 2 weeks ago
The top argument is "Where's the evidence". Show us some evidence for your god. Not just any god, but your particular variety. Faith in what an old book says is not evidence.
You don't know if you're "being tested". You have faith that you are. Where's the evidence?
NBM397 2 weeks ago
If you seriously believe that 10 or 20 or 30 years or whatever amount of quantifiable time spent poor is ok because it will be compensated in the next life why dont you go purposely become bankrupt for the rest of your life.
after all the invisible bearded white man in the sky says ''its all good''
meanwhile i'll be chilling in my nice warm apartment, with warm food and good health. I'll be perfectly happy in my 'ignorance'
have fun dying of a heroin overdose!!
joshyd77 2 weeks ago
@SamiZaatari Sorry, but your argument is complete bullshit. People can suffer in the only life proven to be real, so they will be happy in an imaginary playground? Nonsense, and you know it.
HKOverlord117 2 weeks ago
The first response about testing people is the most sick and twisted thing I've ever heard. And the second response is a non-answer.
HiJon89 3 weeks ago
this idiot is back again?
chinamanspeakenlis 3 weeks ago 5
You have 'debunked' nothing. If you still actually think you have, then you are completely delusional. Notice how most people disagree with you.
chinopisces 3 weeks ago 11
This comment has received too many negative votes show
@chinopisces correction, not most people, but most 'atheists', which is hardly surprising, don't flatter yourself.
SamiZaatari 3 weeks ago
@SamiZaatari I think you've been running into some ignorant atheist. Most atheist I've run into aren't atheist because the world is cruel. They are atheist because they don't see empirical evidence to support a belief in a theistic God. Those few who do make that argument don't refute the possibly if God exist he might test us, it only begs the question to what could we learn from watching our children die. If I was all powerful and loving I'd think of a better way to teach people.
thetruthwasinthere 2 weeks ago
@SamiZaatari Also the atheist only need ask where is your proof of compensation. How do you know you will be rewarded for your trials in kingdom of God. Why does the rich wealthy faithful person get the same reward as the poor suffering faithful?
thetruthwasinthere 2 weeks ago
@SamiZaatari I also don't think it refutes my arguments to ask for evidence to support your evidence. If you say suffering in short term is rewarded in the eternal paradise, it's not unreasonable to ask for your evidence of an eternal paradise.
thetruthwasinthere 2 weeks ago
@SamiZaatari
This isn't even the top atheist argument, so the video fails from the get-go.
The actual top atheist argument is that there is no evidence that a god exists, which is true.
TheTexanCanadian 2 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@SamiZaatari your still delusional
MasSaCreS9 5 days ago
I would like to ask a question but need to make sure I understand the argument. I assumed the video presented the following...Q:Why are misfortunate lives lived out on earth? A:Because compensation will be given in the form of spending eternity in a paradise (I assumed heaven). A quote from the bible and affirmation from the quran were presented as your references.
-Can you confirm that this is an accurate or inaccurate video paraphase?
Samsonite187187 3 days ago
@SamiZaatari Where is your proof for that? Hardly surprising, given that you can't distinguish fact from fiction and provide proof for anything. Don't flatter yourself. Also, this isn't the top argument. You just state it to be because you have an answer for it.
Aviatorsmith 11 hours ago
So if I give "them" something better at the end and give them something better right now as well, Im logically a more compassionate person than your god, dear Sami. Right?
In such a case it unequivocally logically follows that Allah cant exist as the most compassionate, most beneficent one... Challenge was met. Game over, Sami! :-)
Wrath0fKhan 3 weeks ago
@Wrath0fKhan challenge hasn't been met because you haven't given them anything better right now, a hypothetical made up scenario doesn't count as meeting a challenge.
SamiZaatari 3 weeks ago
@SamiZaatari
"because you havent given them anything better right now"
What? First; its just a game of words. Since I can conceive "it", you implicitly are pulling the short one. Second, in fact, "we" (or even myself) have given those people more than they could have ever got from their "deity." Food, medicine, education.
So you and your deity is not only losing a game of words, you guys are losing "measurably."
Wrath0fKhan 3 weeks ago
@SamiZaatari
"hypothetical made up scenario doesnt count as meeting a challenge"
Yes it does. Thats because your scenario is hypothetical only, too. Yet as Ive already said, you and your deity have already demostrably lost the actual scenario (at least the assessable part) as well.
Wrath0fKhan 3 weeks ago
@Wrath0fKhan no my situation is not hypothetical, it will happen, you as an atheist can't cherry pick asking why does bad stuff happen, then ignore the answer that is also given. you made your situation up, you will help nobody.
SamiZaatari 3 weeks ago
@SamiZaatari
"not hypothetical"
Sorry bro, but this is a childish approach. Your situation is obviously totally hypothetical - a fantasy game.
"bad stuff"
Bad stuff happens because "mother nature" is totally indifferent. This can be nicely shown on a plot.
"then ignore the answer"
On the contrary; Im afraid you are not willing to "confront" yourself with reality.
"made your situation up"
What did I make up?
Wrath0fKhan 3 weeks ago
@SamiZaatari
"help nobody"
I "can" provide evidence. Its you who cant do that. Yet you could. You know; hadith qudsi 35 would totally deliver if your results were better than the "background noise." Its easy for Allah, right? And "he" promises to do so as well (as an obligation upon himself). So why do you guys and gals keep failing? Its because your concept of Allah is a total and demonstrable failure.
Bye bro...
Wrath0fKhan 3 weeks ago
@SamiZaatari No, It is hypothetical, because you cannot be 100% sure of it.
You have nothing to prove that is is going to happen. Wich makes it a theory. And theories are hypothetical.
kontekijke 3 weeks ago
@SamiZaatari the back and forth between Wrath0fKhan and yourself made me wonder: How is Wrath's situation hypothetical and yours isn't? Have you visited the afterlife recently? No one knows what happens to us when we die because the only people who would know are, well, dead. The only "proof" you have a claim to comes from a god, of whom no one has seen, met, or even heard from outside of a "holy book"- and there are as many different holy books as mice, each making claim that their god is right
TheFutboler22 2 weeks ago
@SamiZaatari and to your actual "argument", it is more incensing than i can fully express. telling me that a benevolent being with the power to create a universe can allow starvation, cancer, genocide, biggotry, and any other suffering because he'll give them better later? It's preposterous. Using your same logic, people who live an amazing life, never a care in the world, regardless of how kind they are to others, will be doomed to suffering for eternity
TheFutboler22 2 weeks ago
@SamiZaatari no your wrong, see, i believe, and will always believe that humans must evolve so we can fill the universe with our imagination. so we can end all existential angst and truly understand everything. become gods you might say. but religion and stupidity are reigning supreme and it makes me and many others like me suffer because your too stupid to try and understand life with me. god does not love you, i love you we must learn to love eachother. god is simply a metaphor for that
cyrusjerome 3 days ago
@cyrusjerome Congratulations, you just described spirituality without going into all the religion aka. "belief without evidence" bullshit. 1000+ internets to you.
alelp 2 hours ago
@alelp what shall i do with all these extra internets
cyrusjerome 2 hours ago
Before you can start to argue why god allows poverty, sick kids, etc.. You first have to prove that this god actually exists.
fundslender 3 weeks ago 15
@fundslender who gave you dat brain to think surely it couldnt have come by chance whould you say the same thing about a laptop that have to prove that the laptop has a creater before i go on about its damges and repairs it needs which needs a booklet as a guidence
SuperL1on 2 weeks ago
@SuperL1on The difference between my laptop's guidance book (which was man made), and life's guidance book (which was also man made), is that when I'm reading my laptop guidance book, there are no loopholes, or contradictions in it. There are no parts of it that if I question it, the laptop company says, "Oh, that part isn't to be taken literally.". Next...
fundslender 2 weeks ago
@fundslender the quran has no loop holes or contradictions and when it is said dont take it litaley your supposed to look at the context of each verse this is why ur bieng ignorent ur jumping to conclusions with out knowlage. e.g. the part to fix the laptop has a reason whyit must be there dosnt it so this is where ur contradicting ur self
SuperL1on 1 week ago
@SuperL1on im not not getting agressive sorry if it seams that way all im saying is reflect wihtout bieng ignorent
SuperL1on 1 week ago
@SuperL1on Didn't take me long to find just ONE contradiction, outside of the original one of actually existing!
Says:
(4:78)
".... If some good befalls them, they say "This is from Allah". But if evil, they say "This is from thee" (O prophet). Say: "All things are from Allah....."*
Then says:
(4:79)
"Whatever good, (O man!) happens to thee, is from Allah. But whatever evil happens to thee, is from thyself"
Context my ass, that's a cop out answer.
fundslender 1 week ago
you seriously believe this bulshit??
georgio210 3 weeks ago 17
god is testing us? why does he need to test us if he is all knowing?
so if someone sells all their stuff and throws away their money they will go to heaven? also what if a child dies just after child birth due to the lack of health of the mother(stay with me) and because of Adam and eve stealing an apple god would punish all of their descendants even ones that hadn't been born yet(still here?) which means(correct me if i'm wrong) people have well... pre-sin and go to hell.(again i may be wrong)
taylan637 3 weeks ago
The passage is actually "The MEEK shall inherit the earth." In any case, if only the meek are to be compensated, whats in it for the other believers who have complete use of their limbs and are capable of 'intelligent' thought? if what you say is true, then they're screwed. And if the meek are to inherit the earth, then Stephen Hawking is gonna rule it. Im not sure that sits well with any theist.
TheOdinSeeker 3 weeks ago
he doesn't seem to understand what refute means, yet he used the word several times
NearCry 3 weeks ago
I can debunk your argument in one statement;
Crippled atheists.
The ball is in your court, friend.
TheIncognitusMe 3 weeks ago
What are we being tested for? Faith? If god wanted people to believe in him, he would prove himself to be real beyond doubt. And by the way, if poor people are compensated in heaven by god who made them poor in the first place, you must not be getting compensated when you go to heaven because you don't look too poor to me.
craniumface 3 weeks ago
Retard alert..
Vikramthewhite 3 weeks ago
Actually the best atheist argument and really the only atheist argument is a question of where. As in "Where is your proof?". A question that has yet to be answered by any theist
youbetzler 3 weeks ago
Sorry, your wrong dude.
stevjen1 3 weeks ago
hey akmed... trying telling this to a father that has just lost his daughter to a drunk driver, that he will be compensated in the afterlife.
bigdan7489 3 weeks ago
so you're quoting a book whose material hasn't been proved with factual evidence -_-
megaguitaristic 3 weeks ago
LMAO wtf *face palm*
megaguitaristic 3 weeks ago
when you die you, you rot in the ground. it's not a bad thing, don't be so terrified of death that you turn to something illogical to make you feel okay about it. its not like you can even care that you are dead when your body is laying there roting. you're wasting your time.
dylanisdylanable 3 weeks ago
So, what you're saying is, that god the almighty created humans, make them suffer, and then take them to heaven?
My question is: Why the heck does he put people through misery at all? He is supposed to be almighty. If he wanted us the best he would CREATE us IN paradise to avoid any misery at all.
Xx3Zzz 3 weeks ago
@Xx3Zzz not that i agree with the bible idear but what about the adam and eve idear created in paradise that they then destroyed through there own lack of self control not that i believe it ever happened but good answer
gavin93100 3 weeks ago
@gavin93100
So, Adam and Eve were created imperfect by God, and because of a weakness - that HE gave them! - he makes mankind suffer forever?
Xx3Zzz 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
If there is proof of God why is there so many religions? My evidence that God does not exist is the fact that there is so many right religions. Common sense says they're all wrong because there is not 1 absolute religion. Why would he want everyone on this planet creating wars over him? Why are people dying for him? I thought he died for us and why doesn't he do it again to set the record straight? He's not perfect if he was he'd make sure to come back and die again so his children don't die
Pasling270 4 weeks ago
The first things an Atheist will ask you has NOTHING to do with what you bring up.
We ask you to prove the existence of "god", there is no physical proof.
Children and birth defects are natural, no divine punishment or plan. You debunked nothing.
olden89c 4 weeks ago
I dont know what kind of "Atheists" youre talking to...
aarohwer1 4 weeks ago
Stillborn babies?? how were they meek? Babies never given a chance by their drugged up not giving a fuck mother? let me know when you figure it out.
last1born313 4 weeks ago
@super, please post here if you want to correspond.
Einsteinian99 4 weeks ago
The bible is so full of errors, evil, and nonsense that I have difficulty respecting anybody that believes and admires that nonsense.
Einsteinian99 4 weeks ago
@Einsteinian99
You sure make a lot of assertions without evidence. You have a lot of faith, don't you?
SuperTruthlover 4 weeks ago
you sound like a literal retard.
mikeyanagita1 4 weeks ago
@mikeyanagita1
No need to insult people
I think you would be better off showing love rather than hate
Try it sometime
peace
SuperTruthlover 4 weeks ago
When you said 10 years you put up 5 fingers.... just sayin'
PriestCthulu 1 month ago
lol, you debunked nothing. You still never explained why they had to suffer. A test? It's odd how a lot of the time the people that need tested all live in the same area. Slums, Afrika, india, China, Bangladesh... And if the tested go to heaven the same as the vibrated, why must they suffer first. God is all knowing do knows who will pass the tests. Silly religious folk.
Einsteinian99 1 month ago
It’s not enough to abandon Christianity because of some bad church experience, or some hypocritical friends who were called “Christians,” or fundamentalist parents who went overboard, or just the mindless desire to be “free” from religion or God or anything. (Such a desire is, of course, just an excuse to live irresponsibly and selfishly). What’s enough is the truth, which Jesus Christ said will “set you free,”The only freedom is freedom from sin, self, and eternal destruction.
SuperTruthlover 1 month ago
aka, you've debunked nothing.
BiggestOfDaddies 1 month ago
The bible says "MEEK"....not "WEAK" (Matthew 5:5). Meek people can be down right wealthy, albeit easily imposed upon, but still not of the criteria you're setting forth.
BiggestOfDaddies 1 month ago
@BiggestOfDaddies
You right about the Meek ibeing the proper word not weak
Do you know the word Meek means n referance to the bible?
Meek is power until control and not weak at all
Jesus was Meek and not Weak since He has the power of God and could call on a Million angels in a moment.
SuperTruthlover 1 month ago
Realising the spot in which this puts them, modern atheists, the so called New Atheists are actually willing to say with a straight face that something probably CAN just pop into existence without a cause. One of the New Atheists even tells his devotees, that Nothing "evolved" into, well, everything. When one reaches that level of internal confusion, it’s not a great leap to see how an intelligent person can allow h/herself to ask, “Well, if God made the universe, who made God?”
SuperTruthlover 1 month ago
gayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
WildManChrisVEVO 1 month ago
That's a really good point, actually. Can you keep up with it?
I don't care to suffer not to go to this "compensation palce" you are talking about so... Will you give me your glasses your cammera your computer and the rest of your material posesions and live a little bit more in poverty to be ( I don't remember the word in english for "merecedor", you may want to look it up) of this god's after this life gift?
3rne 1 month ago
Also the argument from evil is hardly the top atheist argument, it's a side comment at best.
omnisomnia 1 month ago
Man, why do you guys come up with these contrived explanations. It's simple: Earth is not heaven, therefore we can become victims of our own mortality and evil. God does not interfere because this would nullify free will etc etc. Man theists don't even know their own side, it's hilarious.
omnisomnia 1 month ago
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@omnisomnia
God does not interfere because this would nullify free will etc etc
If I tell my daughter I will bless her with a college education as long as she commits no murder as I interfering with her free will? NO
God offers us life and that more abundantly and we have the free will to accept God's protection or take on the world on our own power
God says choose this day
Life or death
Choice does not nullify free will my simply minded friend
take a logic course
U R hilarious
SuperTruthlover 1 month ago
you talk about atheists like a group of people with some kind of desease
look at yourself- 98 videos about trying to prove god exists
LuliAndTom 1 month ago
I didn't know wierd al yankovich was a thiest. He should stick to spofing mikel jackson vids,because this was very weak.(once again a thiest trys preaching and quoting bible text as proof,complete fail
mandrillx 1 month ago
this claimsx refuted the argument of atiests,but all he did was rehash the same old bible talk. god is testing us,the reward is in end in the after life,yet he offers no proof,epic fail.
mandrillx 1 month ago
lol@ tested, that is just a rationalization. A way thiest get around that they beleive in a god who allows evil in the world .
mandrillx 1 month ago
Its kinda funny how your god treats atheists with the same treatment you guys get its almost as if your god ether doesn't give a shit or it doesn't exist lol
wachnathan 1 month ago
Disgusting how one can talk about poor and deformed babies and say it's great. You should be ashamed!
DonovanSoderlund 1 month ago
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Scientists couldn't understand how we EVOLVED from primates, when chimpanzees had one MORE chromosome than humans. This seemed to discredit evolution, because it did not seem logical to lose a chromosome when evolving. A dominant theory before mapping the chimpanzee genome was that there had been a chromosomal fusion. When mapping the chimpanzee genome finally began, scientists discovered human chromosome 2 is an exact fusion of chimpanzee chromosomes 2p and 2q.
mkb1 1 month ago
This guy needs to get laid.
AbsurdMark 1 month ago
@SamiZaatari Apart from the obvious, (the burden of proof lies with those making the claim), your assertions are obscene and immoral. Your theism is a perverted excuse for expunging believers from any guilt or obligations for "duty of care", because "God will reward them in the next life." This doctrine sick and evil.
Far from you debunking anything, it only highlights the depraved depths to which dogma will sink to recuse itself from its humane obligations - hang your head in shame!
Graeme555 1 month ago
Okay, now prove there's a Heaven. This argument may be refuted, but only on the grounds that a Heaven exists. If you don't first prove there's a Heaven, then both the argument and your rebuttal are meaningless.
Moshikashitenai 1 month ago
or even better, what is the point in "testing" us during our lives, if god already decided to take the poor, and the weak, and leave the ones he so calls perfect to burn in hell.
think about it, IF THERE IS A GOD, he made you the way you are, for he is all mighty, and he made the weak, weak. so basically he decided already, no need to judge, just bring hell already.
RedKrowley 1 month ago
so... you're telling me that a person born with mental diseases, persons who can't even think properly, they cant recognize any of the things you said, are supposed to be judged by their acts just like any of us?
basically what i am saying is, you CAN NOT, judge a person for having one arm, if YOU ARE THE ONE that only gave that person one arm at the first place, theres no test or compensation, that's just plain out stupid, retarded, and wrong.
RedKrowley 1 month ago
That doesn't make sense your saying the poor shall be rewarded y? becaue your to dam lazy to reach your goals in life or make a difference in your life and you think you will be rewarded for that? lol i think the holy books are full of shit on that one, if life is pointless on earth then why even bother putting us here? your logic is unlogical in fact i will go as far to say its dam right fucked up and childish lol
wachnathan 1 month ago
I thought the saying that "the meek shall inherit the earth" was more about how people in positions of "power" are the few and should respect those they have power over as they will always be outnumbered and after they are gone... The meek will still be there.
I am an athiest and I think religion is too rigid and has to be interpreted differently in order to be different. Whereas real life can just change as needed... Religion is ignorance incarnate
shellsuitstrangler 1 month ago
Actually atheism is caused from lack of evidence not arguments if you really wanna convert atheists then pray that your god actually does something for once that tells us it exists, its very simple. All we atheists hear is ppl making cases on why we should accept these so called beliefs on a maker but yet we never hear or see anything from this actually being itself like it can't defend itself? if its so powerful why are you speaking on its behalf? why are you having to defend its existences?
wachnathan 1 month ago
@wachnathan
if you really wanna convert atheists then pray that your god actually does something for once that tells us it exists, its very simple.
you like coming to earth and doing miricle and coming back from the dead?
SuperTruthlover 1 month ago
@SuperTruthlover Oh please. Just because its writen in a dam book doesn't mean it really happened i don't have to buy into that BS no offense but its not my problem what the jews believe in or the stories they make up. Im from the present time like you, writen material that long ago isn't going to convince me at all besides most ppl back then obviously weren't very convinced ether so.... Whats your point?
wachnathan 1 month ago
@wach
No sane historian doubts that Jesus Christ lived and BTW all history is material written long ago .Do you also deny Alexander the Great lived?
Do you think Egyptian writings are all false as well
What would convince you within reason of course .
please don't say you need Jesus to play a round of golf with you LOL
I am think He would play with me rather than you
Jesus spent all his time with those who wanted to come into the light and i am thinking you prefer the darkness
SuperTruthlover 1 month ago
@SuperTruthlover Well not everything in the bible is myth true but thats why its so dangerous is becaue it mixes myth with fact and it breeds confussion on our reallity it causes separation of mankind and it just can't prove itself. The chrisitan god didn't fall from the sky it was slowly created, we know there is no evidence of this god before the bible not one human being on earth acknowledged such a being until the bible was writen i think thats pretty good evidence this being was invented.
wachnathan 1 month ago
wa
many books in the OT wrote about Jesus
atheism and Christianity r alike
. Both beliefs require faith.
- Atheists’ faith is in their powers of intellect, science and pride
- Christian faith is in the person of Jesus the Christ.
. Both are born in rebellion to the idea that a God exists to whom they will someday be accountable.
. Atheists maintain that position throughout their lives by adhering to evidence that supports their position and discarding evidence that doesn’t.
SuperTruthlover 1 month ago
@
You keep making assertion without any evidence for your claims
therefore opinion
Rational atheism; Common Sense Atheism. These are just two of several contradictory terms that atheists use to begin their posts. I told an atheist, not long ago that atheism is illogical, inaccurate, incoherent and absurd. She turned this around and said the same about Christianity. Point made, in my mind. Most atheists have simply not thought through the implications of what they say they believe.
SuperTruthlover 1 month ago
In atheism, life has no meaning, no context, no purpose and no ultimate justice.
Christianity - the philosophy preaches meaning and gives meaning
Christianity - the philosophy preaches context and our lives are lived within that context
Atheists try to tell themselves that their lives have meaning and context and purpose but IF life, the universe and everything are in fact an accident, then ultimate meaning and context and purpose are absent from all of our lives.
SuperTruthlover 1 month ago
@SuperTruthlover This is the problem with your definition of atheism you assume its a doctrine when its just a rejection of gods or godess of any kind everything else is game for us. We can still be spiritual we can still have purpose like everyone else religion has no monoploy on any decissions mankind can have you christians or muslims just use god to make your life have purpose thats all your doing you not any different from us. Having a purpose is the only importants who cares what its for.
wachnathan 1 month ago
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SuperTruthlover 1 month ago
@SuperTruthlover I hate to be rude but life existed long before chrisianity what right do you have to step in and tell ppl what to believe what to have pupose in what to do with our own nature what to do with our bodies when you can't even get your god to actually speak? all you have is a "book" thats not very consistent its very contradictory and has lots of usless information that has no evidences thats it lol
wachnathan 1 month ago
wach
all you have is a "book"
I have more
Jesus said that finding the kingdom of Heaven is like a man who discovered a treasure in a field. That man sold everything he had in order to buy the field and gain the treasure. He was so confident that he’d found a treasure that giving up everything else was worth the risk. In reality and in hindsight, it wasn’t a risk at all because the treasure was real, it wasn’t a figment of his imagination
I have the right to share my faith to all
SuperTruthlover 1 month ago
@SuperTruthlover Looking back at history i know exactly how you guys shared your faith you ether convert or die! Just saying no harm here, but anyways yes you have more its called faith and what its faith? Well heres my definition "faith is taking and accepting information with out evidence" you have based your life and views on the ignorants of "men" that claim they have information given to them from a war god that was obviously invented based on the history of the nostic jews.
wachnathan 1 month ago
@wachnathan
Looking back at history i know exactly how you guys shared your faith in atheism, you ether convert or die!
Stalin killed millions and closed 1,000s of churches in addition to banning the 66 books called the word of God. Chairman Mao did the same thing alone with other atheist leaders who in all killed 120 million people in the 20th century alone. sic
Why atheists work so hard to destroy the word of God and those who accept it shows they cannot abide Christians
SuperTruthlover 1 month ago
@SuperTruthlover Ghangis Khan killed more then that so whats your point? Your not getting it obviously the fact is you say your a real religion that saves ppl and you preach that killing is wrong but yet you comment all these double standards thats the point im trying to make is that your faith is false and it doesn't work. You can't preach to me about comandments if you can't even follow your selfs lol by the way god was worse then the devil in the bible lol
wachnathan 1 month ago
@SuperTruthlover Jesus teaches you to love everyone but yet god kills millions in the bible its nuts, your faith makes no sense at all just look how many ppl die at gods hands vs the devil? and yet you call satan evil? lol God is Stalin god is hitler god is Ghangis Khan lol your all full of crap when it comes to morality. You can argue all you want to but no one killed more ppl then your god lol not that i believe those stories ever even happened but still.
wachnathan 1 month ago
@SuperTruthlover Atheists aren't evil we are open to the evidence and we follow it thats what we do, don't get mad at us because we know the real truth. Invaildations of ones religion is insulting yes but it has to be done this bible has no authority on mankind we can figure life out with out the bible and we do infact.
wachnathan 1 month ago
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@wachnathan
Atheists aren't evil we are open to the evidence
Do you speak for all atheists?
I have not met an atheist who does anything but reject all evidence provided for God
But, if a person asked you what kind of things you'd accept, within reason, as evidence for God, what would you say? If you have nothing to offer, then you haven't thought your position through... and if you haven't done that, then can you honestly lay claim to the title atheist?
SuperTruthlover 1 month ago
@wac
don't get mad at us because we know the real truth. Invalidation of ones religion/worldview is painful
We acknowledge God in the US as one nation under God
I know atheists think they are so smart and enlightened they don't follow the national motto (In God we trust) but hey don't get angry at men who don't follow your illogical atheist world view. Without proving God does not exist you are left with your faith alone.
This is why you must attack Christianity and Christians
SuperTruthlover 1 month ago
@SuperTruthlover Not all americans acknowledge god, Just because you label stuff with god doesn't make it any more true. Don't say us atheists because we aren't a foundation or a church we are individuals who can't see any evidence to put faith in a prime spirit (god) thats it thats all it takes to be atheists. Funny how you keep attacking atheists as if that makes theism true lol I really wish i could convince you to realize there is no going back for me atheism i know the bible is wrong.
wachnathan 1 month ago
@wachnathan
Not all americans acknowledge god
Your right not all Americans believe we landed on the moon or that 9/11 was an attack by those who hate our way of life. There are always a few who deny logic and reason
These people live in a fantasy world and therefore logic and reason is useless to persuade them to truth.
I agree with you about your atheism. You refuse to repent and therefore are trapped in the darkness of your thinking. I don't believe i can convince you God exists
SuperTruthlover 1 month ago
@wachnathan
"i know the bible is wrong"
You don't know the bible is worng or you would show your proof to the world
You have faith it is wrong and desire their that God does not exist but that is not the same as knowing.
You might say you know you mother loves you and I am sure she does but many beleive people loves them only to find out they are wrong and their faith is misplaced
Where is your evidence that 66 books of the bible are wrong?
Don't be so sure you know so much.
SuperTruthlover 1 month ago
@SuperTruthlover You've never actually read the Bible, have you. If you had, then you would not say these things.
Want proof the Bible is wrong? OK, let's start at Genesis - why are there two conflicting accounts of Creation? They can't both be right. And that's only on the first two pages. Want more? There are literally hundreds to choose from.
Do you base your morals on a book that advocates genocide, rape, slavery, sexism, homophobia, child murder and incest? What is moral about that?
Graeme555 1 month ago
@Graeme555
You've never actually read the Bible, have you. If you had, then you would not say these things.
I have read all 66 books have you?
SuperTruthlover 1 month ago
@SuperTruthlover Yes, I've read the Bible.
Now, can you explain why there are two conflicting accounts of Creation in Genesis - they can't both be right.
Please feel free to tie yourself in knots.
Graeme555 1 month ago
There is no contradiction between Genesis 1 and 2. Genesis 1 is a detailed explanation of the six days of creation, day by day.Genesis two is a recap and a more detailed explanation of the sixth day,the day that Adam and Eve were made.The recap is stated in Gen. 2:4,This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created,in the day that the Lord God made earth and heaven."Then,Moses goes on to detail the creation of Adam and Eve as is seen in verses 7 thru 24 of Gen. 2
SuperTruthlover 1 month ago