@rbmath regarding "echad" in Deut 6:4: The Jews never split God into 'persons', because they KNOW what 'echad' means. Gen 2:24 “the SAME [echad] language”; Gen 11:1 “they all have the SAME [echad] language” Now, let's look at Jesus' words that the Holy Spirit is 'another' Comforter (John 14:6) - the Greek word is 'allon' meaning, "more of the SAME". Compare this to Jesus appearing in "another [hetera - different] form [morphe]" in Mark 16:12.
@rbmath regarding "echad" in Deut 6:4: The Jews never split God into 'persons', because they KNOW what 'echad' means. Gen 2:24 “the SAME [echad] language”; Gen 11:1 “they all have the SAME [echad] language” Now, let's look at Jesus' words that the Holy Spirit is 'another' Comforter (John 14:6) - the Greek word is 'allon' meaning, "more of the SAME". Compare this to Jesus appearing in "another [hetera - different] form [morphe]" in Mark 16:12.
@rbmath regarding "echad" in Deut 6:4: The Jews never split God into 'persons', because they KNOW what 'echad' means. Gen 2:24 “the SAME [echad] language”; Gen 11:1 “they all have the SAME [echad] language” Now, let's look at Jesus' words that the Holy Spirit is 'another' Comforter (John 14:6) - the Greek word is 'allon' meaning, "more of the SAME". Compare this to Jesus appearing in "another [hetera - different] form [morphe]" in Mark 16:12.
Sorry, I thought your Oneness guest was 'Doug Harris'. Marvin Sanguinetti is the one I hope to receive more information as to his website and teachings, please. Thank you.
JT, Mat 24:36 (KJV) states, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." 'The Son' was inserted. The feast of Trumpets (Rosh HaShanah) is called "The day and hour no man knows". Jesus definitely knows when He will return. Regarding Acts 7:55, Steven's vision, the 'glory of God' is not a person. Steven saw God's glory and the person of Jesus Christ, the 'right hand' [power] of God. Jesus IS yet the image of the invisible God.
JT, In Rev 22:1, The 'throne' of God and [kai] of the Lamb" is still One Throne. The Throne is not plural. 'Kai' can be interpreted, 'even'. The throne of God, even the Lamb...amen.
To JT: Regarding John 1:1 The Greek states "The Word was 'pros' [to] God" - Here, 'God' is 'theon' (object), which can be interpreted as angels and magistrates (created before man) and prophetic as coming to and speaking to 'elohim/theon', believers as shown in Ps 82:6 and John 10:34. And, the Greek literally states in that latter part of the verse, "God [Theos, subject] was the Word".
What JT needs to understand is that Mat 28:19 was admittedly altered by the RCC (The Catholic Encyclopedia, 2, pg 263), just as the Johannine Comma (1 John 5:7) was altered. Nowhere in the NT do we see the Apostles baptizing in this manner, but in the name of the Lord, Jesus Christ. Doug Harris, I want to study all I can from you! You have the anointing of Christ. Thank you and bless you always.
Yes, but you are begging the point. This is exactly the nature of your error (that you fail to accept the plurality of person the Bible discusses) that you want to go on and on offering your assertions as the basis of the argument. The only way you can insist that Jehovah is not TRIUNE in His persons is to ignore and deny the clear teachings of scripture, You have to ignore that the Lord Jesus says to make disciples of all men baptizing in his NAME of Father, Son &the Holy Ghost.
As I understand it what happened in the time of the Arians is still happening with some people today, that is, they limit God, that is to say, God is NOT limited to human intellectual reasoning.
@rbmath Sir, what point are u making? Either u think God is a trinity? Or u know God is Jesus? Or u have ur own belief system? Can u clarify ur stance?
@rbmath Ok I believe Jesus is God even the Father. So u r saying that since I believe in One God numerically like the bible teaches I am limiting God?
@swenmanwwjd12.You falsely assuming, that because I believe in the historic trinity than I must naturally deny monotheism. Your failure to properly understand the use of the words as they are/were use in Christian theology is creating a stumbling block, You falsely assume that my view is "Tritheism", which was rejected as one the "Trinitarian Heresies" along with your view of " Modalism (i.e. Sabellianism, Noetianism and Patripassianism).
@swenmanwwjd12 I assume that as you have not replied to my email where I challenged you to discuss the scriptures in the Greek, you have realised that, in me, you had bitten off more than you could chew.
So now you move on to easier fry to spread your lies? (cont...)
I respectfully suggest you hold your tongue and desist from any more misleading of others here until you have actually learned a little about the Christian faith. You boast about the 'millions' who think like you, yet conveniently ignore the many BILLIONS in history who have not.
Ask yourself " What am I (emphasised) missing here? Despite a v. narrow knowledge base you assert that everyone is out of step except you. Isn't that arrogance in its worst form?
@swenmanwwjd12 .RE:How many trinities ....Not sure how this question comes about since I said "I believe in the teaching of the Historic Trinity. The Nicene Creed (381 A.D.), Athanasian Creed, Definition of Chalcedon,"
@rbmath How is it (in your eyes) that if I reject trinity I am rejecting Jesus? Do I need someone or something other than Him? I would like bible scripture that says "If you reject the trinity than you reject Jesus." Where is that scripture? I got scripture that says "He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." 1 John 5:12 Apparently God believes all we need is Jesus. So where is your scripture?
@swenmanwwjd12. NASB John 8:24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." You reject WHO Jesus truly IS. All the scriptures properly understood clearly teach the trinity. Your view naturally leads too "Patripassianism". It was really God the Father playing the role of Jesus who died on the cross..
@rbmath In John 8:24 Jesus was talking about the Father. The "He" who Jesus claimed to be in that verse is the Father just read verse 8:27 John clears it all up with that verse. Then farther down in verse 8:58 He really got their attention when he said "I AM."
@swenmanwwjd12 John 8:24. ANSWER: You do know that their are verses in between verse 24 to 27. You fail to naturally follow the reasoning of John. Verse John 8:25 is ANOTHER QUESTION which Jesus answers and their lack of understanding is pointed out in verse 27..
@rbmath rbmath being the "Messiah" means u r the Everlasting Father in flesh. God and man joined. The "Christ." Christ means Messiah. That's why in 1 John 2:22 John says denying the Christ is denying the Father and the Son.
@swenmanwwjd12.. The Trinitarian Faith" by T.F Torrance, Page 78. "Throughout the early Church the *FATHER* was understood in a two-fold but indivisible way, as the one being of the Godhead, and as the Father of the Son, whose Person is distinct from the Person of the Son and from the Person of the Spirit-although, of course, the one being of God is known to us only through the Son and in the Spirit." Gregory Nyss. De Trin., Opera. Mal 2:10..
@swenmanwwjd12 ESV John. 1:1.. WITH God. ,18,,the only God, who is at the Father's side... Php 2:6 who, though he (JESUS) was in the form of God, did not count equality WITH God. To be "WITH" someone their needs to be least TWO people...
@swenmanwwjd12 Heb 1:3..RADIANCE . "As light is never without its radiance, So the Father is never without his Son or without his Word. Moreover just as light and radiance are one and are not alien to one another, So the Father and Son are one and are not alien to one another but are of one and the same being. And just as God is eternal light, so the Son of God as eternal radiance of God is himself eternal light without beginning and without end. Athanasius ...
@rbmath Hebrews 1:1-3 really shatters the "3 persons theory." Just read verse 3. That verse alone deals specifically with the "persons theory" by stating that the Son is the express image of "God's person."
@swenmanwwjd12 Heb 1:3..RADIANCE . "As light is never without its radiance, So the Father is never without his Son or without his Word. Moreover just as light and radiance are one and are not alien to one another, So the Father and Son are one and are not alien to one another but are of one and the same being. And just as God is eternal light, so the Son of God as eternal radiance of God is himself eternal light without beginning and without end. Athanasius..
@rbmath In the Athanasian Creed verse 7 it says "Such as the Father is, such is the Son and such is the Holy Spirit." Now if we apply this verse then we can see that if the Father is a "Father" then the Son is a "Father" too, all because "Such as the Father is, such is the Son." But now that doesn't mean their are 3 Fathers now does it? I don't think the trinity was thinking when they thought that one up? Did they all work on that one together?
@swenmanwwjd12 try reading the Athanasian Creed IN PROPER CONTEXT.. In line 6 it show the context of line 7 which is the "Godhead" its NOT about being 3 PERSONS of the Father...
@rbmath God does not share His glory rbmath like line 6 of the Athanasian Creed tries to portray. Jesus was "equal" with God because He was and is God. That's how He's equal with God because He is Him...... "the glory equal????" "the majesty COETERNAL?????" these are LIES from the Harlot Church everybody! Col. 2:8 "Beware lest any man SPOIL u through philosophy and vain deceit, AFTER THE TRADITION OF MEN, after the rudiments of the world, and NOT AFTER CHRIST."
@swenmanwwjd12. I KNOW that Jesus IS God. The question is, Is Jesus God the FATHER. NO. As I said before. You hold to one of the Trinitarian Heresies known as Modalism.. AGAIN. ESV John. 1:1.. WITH God. ,18,,the only God, who is at the Father's side... Php 2:6 who, though he (JESUS) was in the form of God, did not count equality WITH God. To be "WITH" someone their needs to be least TWO people..
@rbmath continued...Col. 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the godhead bodily!" STAND FIRM SAINTS...ALL WE NEED IS IN THE LORD JESUS. DO U BELIEVE THAT? GIVE ME AN AMEN!!!
@swenmanwwjd12 The bottom line is this. WHICH "Jesus" do you have? The one claimed by "Modalism" Which denies God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit and teaches that these are only roles or “modes” that are being played. It denies that, Jesus Divinity existed WITH God the Father. OR do you have the "Jesus" of the Historic Trinity as clearly taught from the bible?
@rbmath Not 3 gods rbmath. Only 1 God. The Father, which is Jesus Christ, also known as the "Son of God." The Son is the Father in the flesh. The bible does not talk about "God the Son" because that is a made up term. When u say "God the..." and "God the..." and "God the..." That is 3 gods not 1 rbmath.
@rbmath The trinity is a well thought out scheme developed by the devil and his counterparts. It deceives people into thinking that they actually believe in only 1 God. Let me ask u, have u ever been to a church where people have spoke with tongues?
@swenmanwwjd12 Exactly WHAT does the teaching of the Trinity have to do with people who speak in tongues. And no I have not, and people have a great misunderstanding of the tongues teachings....
@rbmath Knowing God comes through revelation. God prophesied that one day He would speak to us or reveal Himself more to us through "stammering lips and another tongue." Isaiah 28:11. Read 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 When Jesus returns there will be no further need for God to reveal Himself to us anymore because He will be with us in flesh. Therefore tongues will cease and prophecies will end and the knowledge of Him will be complete.
@rbmath No, knowing God comes through revelation Matthew 11:27. Your faith must not be in WORD alone. Reading the bible alone will not save you. Your faith must be in the POWER of God. 1 Corinthians 2:3-5 and 4:20
@swenmanwwjd12 1Th_5:21 but test everything; hold fast what is good. I never said to read the bible without faith. The bible is FINAL authority in knowing God. NOT man's sinful evil heart that leads him astray...
@rbmath U can know the bible inside and out and still miss Jesus right in front of u. Like the pharisees did. They knew scripture inside and out but missed God in the flesh.
@rbmath If I were u I would at least get myself to a church that does not forbid speaking with tongues like 1 Corinthians 14:39 says. I urge it to be an Apostolic church. Start there and God will deal with u more and more. Those churches that do not allow speaking with tongues are breaking the commandments of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 14:37
@rbmath No, the most important thing here is love brother, even if we can fathom all mysteries if we don't have love we are nothing. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life..." brother all we need is in Him alone.
@swenmanwwjd12 WHAT is the FIRST and GREATEST love for Christians? Mat 22:36-37.. its to love God FIRST and MOST of all... You do not love, you love an image of God that you have made...
@swenmanwwjd12 "the LORD is one" One Deu 6:4 is H259 "echad" unifed ONE. NOT, H3173 "yachid" means "only, only one, solitary" is NEVER used of God. in Gen_2:24 speaking of Adam and Even, one "echad" flesh, BUT Adam and Even are TWO PEOPLE.
@rbmath A grave mistake to make is to think that "echad" means more than one person. A person is an individual. Don't u understand why they used that word "person" in Hebrews 1:3? Answer: So they could repel the notion of more than ONE being who is God. So they could express that only "Jesus" is the true God.
@swenmanwwjd12 "echad".. WHY. because you say so. If the Godhead was as you falsely claim One "person" than WHY was the Hebrew word H3173 "yachid" used in Deu 6:4?. Heb 1:3 was answered. NSAB Heb 1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, This shows TWO things. 1) the radiance. 2) His glory. Also "exact" charaktēr CANNOT be said of a HUMAN BEING.
@swenmanwwjd12 The KJV, NKJV, translates the "hupostasis" as person. Modern up to date translations such as, NASB, ESV, HCSB says, "nature" NET bible says "essence". It comes down too exactly HOW do you understand the Greek word "hupostasis"? As you suggest "person" than HOW do you understand the word "person" as applied to God. A "person" with a BODY of some kind? that is tangible some how? Or is better translated as "nature or essence"?
@swenmanwwjd12 .So they could repel the notion of more than ONE being who is God. ANSWER: to make sure that my views are clear. I do NOT believe that God is "more than ONE being". Proper Trinitarian Theology uses "Being and Person" DIFFERENTLY. God is One BEING / essence / substance of what make's God God, Three Divine Persons, NOT meaning tangible or, Matthew, Mark and John as three persons, this would be one of the Trinitarian Heresies known as "Tritheism"
@rbmath U don't even know what u believe. That's y I posted "the trinity deceives people into thinking they actually believe in ONE God. If u knew what u believe u would know that u don't believe in ONE God who is Jesus Christ alone. Who is Jehovah Most High God.
@rbmath When Jesus tells u something u try to ask a "mind in the sky" that is "distinct" from Jesus for confirmation. U will never get it because the "mind in the sky" that u pray to is the "god of this world." U don't recollect that Jesus is the name of the Father and except u believe that Jesus is the Father u will die in ur sins (Jn 8:24) BECAUSE u will never be baptized into His name which remits our sin (Mk 16:16/Acts 2:38/Lk 24:47). Only the name of Jesus will save u friend.
@swenmanwwjd12 I will ask you again. HOW do you understand the word "person" in Heb 1:3 KJV, as applied to God. A "person" with a BODY of some kind? that is tangible some how? Or is better translated as "nature or essence"?
@swenmanwwjd12. A proper understanding of the trinity is difficult to understand, this is why I posted "Arians operated with the principle that what they could not humanly conceive could not be. ... That is to say, they equated the limits of their understanding with the limits of reality, and thereby laid down conditions for their understanding of God and their interpretation of divine revelation." Hilary of Poitiers De Trinity i.13, 15, 3.1,20,. Basil Con. Eunomius., 2.24....
@rbmath Jesus said eternal life was "knowing" God the Father and Him. John 17:3 and John said in 1 John 5:20 that we have been given an "UNDERSTANDING" that we may "KNOW" Him who is true.
@rbmath I SAID WHERE IS THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THIS VERSE! Answer the question rbmath and dont side step. U said u r a trinitarian not a binitarian, but u continually only try to show a distinction between Jesus and God the Father, that's only 2.
@rbmath Jn 17:3 Jesus defined ETERNAL LIFE in this verse and He left out your "Holy Spirit 3rd PERSON" and said that "ETERNAL LIFE WAS KNOWING THE ONLY TRUE GOD AND JESUS CHRIST whom thou hast sent." Don't jump to a different scripture, this is the one that deals with the issue of ETERNAL LIFE.
@swenmanwwjd12 RE:Don't jump to a different scripture.. ANSWER: WOW, So your saying lets NOT understand the CONTEXT of what Jesus said in John 17:5.. Why Jesus did not mention the Holy Spirit in verse 3 I do not know, it does NOT change what Jesus said in verse 5. I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS. Verse 5 denies your Modalism along with MANY other verses that you deny in proper CONTEXT...
@rbmath He didn't mention the Holy Spirit in verse 3 because the Holy Spirit is not a separate member of a 3 person roman catholic/protestant god squad. SO u did not understand y Jesus did not mention the Holy Spirit and now u do.
@swenmanwwjd12 so your claiming to read the mind of the Lord as why He did not mention the Holy Spirit in verse BUT you REFUSE to believe what Jesus said in verse 5.. I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS., John 1:1..WITH God..Php 2:6.. equal WITH God.
@rbmath Friend we know Jesus is "ETERNAL" He is the ONE TRUE GOD dude. What ur trying to do is make another "god" who is next to "God" and that can never be because Jesus will not give His glory unto another. Isaiah 48:11-12 Truly this is not that hard to understand and to not understand it is to be unbelieving. God Himself came down in flesh and redeemed His people from sin.
@swenmanwwjd12 This goes back to what I already posted. "Arians operated with the principle that what they could not humanly conceive could not be. ... That is to say, they equated the limits of their understanding with the limits of reality, and thereby laid down conditions for their understanding of God and their interpretation of divine revelation." Hilary of Poitiers De Trinity i.13, 15, 3.1,20,. Basil Con. Eunomius., 2.24...
@swenmanwwjd12 YOU LIMIT GOD TO YOUR FINITE THINKING.. you refuse to deal with what I asked.. HOW do you understand the word "person" in Heb 1:3 KJV, as applied to God. A "person" with a BODY of some kind? that is tangible some how? Or is better translated as "nature or essence"?...
@swenmanwwjd12 Who was "WITH GOD"? do you REFUSE to believe what Jesus said in verse 5.. I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS., John 1:1..WITH God..Php 2:6.. equal WITH God.
RBMATH! Jesus is not alongside God the Father like 2 people are next to each other. It's not 1 person next to another person. The mystery of godliness is like a riddle like in Psalms 30:4 surely u know! This is a mystery only revealed to those that truly love Jesus John 14:21 this is the chapter where Jesus declares Himself as the Father to His disciples and this is exactly what He came to do. To "manifest" or "make known" the name of the Father. John 17:6
@swenmanwwjd12 RE: Father like 2 people.. ANSWER: Once again, it comes down to HOW you understand the word "PERSON", you have a WRONG understanding how its used. You are understanding it in the MODERN use, such as, CREATED / PHYSICAL / body / tangible, This is NOT how it is used.. Until you honestly deal with questions that I have been asking you, you will always fail to see the truth, namely that YOU are limiting God to your small finite reasoning..
@rbmath The definition of the trinity is that there are 3 "persons" that exist within the being of God etc etc. There is no "HOW do u understand the word PERSON?" NO! A person is what a person means. The word explains itself. U just won't abide in the meaning and u want to venture outside of it and make up ur own.
@swenmanwwjd12 The bible uses "ANTHROPOMORPHISM" language to show spiritual truth. Example. Psa_36:7. God does NOT Literally have "wings" RE: Person. Let me say it this way. HOW do you understand the GREEK word "hupostasis" in Heb 1:3. IF you insist on the MODERN understanding of the word "PERSON" meaning a PHYSICAL BODY. Are you than like the Mormons who believe that God HAS A BODY OF FLESH AND BONES? We have to understand what the AUTHOR of Hebrews was saying, how he understood the word.
@rbmath U r aiding the devil. He has used this trick from the beginning when he made Eve question God's word in Gen. 3:1 when he said "Yea, hath God said..." I can just hear him now saying "Yea, did God really use the word "person" in Heb 1:3 & is that what He really means?" Well actually yeah He did use that word & u can't erase it or take it away. Neither can u add to it. It is perfect and expresses exactly what God is saying. That Jesus Christ is the "EXPRESS IMAGE OF GOD'S PERSON"
@swenmanwwjd12 U r aiding the devil ANSWER: Again ADDRESS the scriptures in CONTEXT. What does the ORIGINAL Greek word ὑπόστασις MEAN to us today. You do know that God did not use English as the original Divinely Inspired language? TWO things are shown in Heb 1:3. (1) the brightness. The source OF the "brightness" (2) of his glory.. EXAMPLE. You have physical body of the sun itself. AND you have LIGHT coming OFF of the sun BOTH exist simultaneously.
@rbmath Yes but u don't split the light that comes off the sun into a different person (if the sun were a person that is.) The light that comes off the sun is the sun. Not another member of the sun or a new will or being it's the sun plain and simple. But that's what u have done with God. U have made His light another member, another person other than Himself. Let me ask u about ur little verse John 1:1. WHO was the WORD according to John 1:1?
@swenmanwwjd12 RE:split the light) You still have the wrong understanding of the word "person".The point was to show show you TWO things exist simultaneously, they cannot exist without the other. The Divinity of Jesus ALWAYS existed WITH God and WAS God as John 1:1 TEACHES. WHY did you change the question and avoided the words "WITH" God and WAS God. Their has to be TWO to be WITH someone..
@rbmath That is a lie from hell. I am "WITH" myself right now. I have thoughts to myself, I have feelings to myself, I can speak words to myself, I can even encourage myself. If I can be with myself and I was made in the image of God, then God certainly can be "WITH" Himself too. Which is what Jn 1:1 is saying. It literally says that God was "WITH" God (meaning Himself). Surely u understand now.
@swenmanwwjd12 I am "WITH".. ANSWER: Again DEAL with what the Divinely Inspired Scriptures have to say, NOT what you want them to say. The idea is the WORD who WAS God and WITH God became FLESH who at the Father's side. The WORD did consider equality WITH God, while The WORD had brightness of HIS glory, The WORD HAD God's glory WITH God BEFORE the world was. Everything was made by HIM, THESE do NOT say, as you falsely think , with ἐμαυτοῦ , it says WITH θεός
@rbmath Have u never heard the Oneness of God before? Haven't u heard about the United Pentecostal Movement? Which is what "Marvin" in this video is an ordained minister of?
@rbmath Have u never heard the Oneness of God before? Haven't u heard about the United Pentecostal Movement? Which is what "Marvin" in this video is an ordained minister of?
@swenmanwwjd12 Is Jesus RIGHT to say this. John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH thee BEFORE the world was.
@rbmath WITH THINE OWN SELF RBMATH!! It's like Jesus is saying " I am YOU God and YOU are ME!! The bible says Jesus is the "IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD!"
@swenmanwwjd12 WITH THINE OWN SELF. ANSWER:That is NOT what John 17:5 says. it clearly shows TWO Divine Persons. John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
@rbmath U are so mixed up guy. U can't have TWO DIVINE PERSONS because there is only 1 LORD. What do u not understand about the word ONE? U r brainwashed and ur conscience is seared to the uttermost. U have believed a lie and a trick and ur faith is in a fable. A tradition of men. U must be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, which NAME is JESUS CHRIST. This is why the Apostles baptized in His NAME because they obeyed His commandment. Acts 2:38
@swenmanwwjd12 mixed up. ANSWER: With all due respect. You are repeating your errors that we went over already. As I pointed out at least twice. YOU are limiting God to your finite small reasoning.
@rbmath Because what it's saying is that Jesus actually is the Father. Whereas u think it says He is sharing His glory with Jesus. U think it's 1 person next to another person. U r drinking damnation upon urself and u have absolutely no idea at all. Deceived to the uttermost.
@rbmath Know for certain that the EARLY CHURCH was BAPTIZED INTO THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST for THE REMISSION OF SINS! Meaning that was the name that was spoken over them or was "called" upon them in baptism. Not the way u were baptized if u even have been? Which is one reason u r causing so much contention. U haven't even done what the Lord commanded us to do yet.
@swenmanwwjd12 RE:BAPTIZED. WHAT did Jesus say? Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
@swenmanwwjd12 Who was "WITH GOD"? do you REFUSE to believe what Jesus said in verse 5.. I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS., John 1:1..WITH God..Php 2:6.. equal WITH God..
@swenmanwwjd12 1Jn 4:1-3.. ANSWER: Once AGAIN. I believe that Jesus IS FULLY God come in the flesh. So HOW do these scriptures apply to me when I have NOT denied them?
@rbmath Because u deny that God (Jesus Christ) came in the flesh. Meaning the Father. When u say "Jesus Christ" or "God" u say " the Father." Get it? I will say it again "When anybody says "God" it's supposed to mean "the Father." So when u deny that Jesus Christ came in the flesh u r actually denying that the Father came in flesh because Jesus is God.
@rbmath Yes u do deny that Jesus Christ came in the flesh because u don't think He is the Father. U have clung to a myth. Jesus said "ALL power is given unto ME in heaven and in earth." Notice Jesus first says "in heaven" meaning if there was (as u say) some other person up there with Him then that other person has no power at all because Jesus just said HE has it ALL. U r greatly deceived and brainwashed. Even in heaven He has all the power.
@rbmath That's a lie rbmath. I know exactly who God is because Jesus revealed Himself to me and I have witnesses to back me up. God is Jesus Christ. U r the one who is closed off to who God really is. We can "talk" about it all day but to actually "do" the truth is another thing. I have evidence from the things God has done in my life that proves He knows me and I know Him.
@rbmath It is my joy to extinguish your firey darts with the WATER, the SPIRIT and the BLOOD of 1Jn 5:8. I have this testimony in myself because I believe "ON" the Son of God and this is not my doing but God's. U have not this witness in u because u do not believe "ON" Jesus. U might say u believe "IN" Jesus but u surely don't believe "ON" Jesus which means to believe "Correctly."
@rbmath U can build "IN" a faulty foundation because there is no pressure on it, but u cannot build "ON" a "faulty foundation" and expect it to stand. While u build things in ur faulty foundation they might be nice things but ur house is in ruins. In like manner to build on a firm foundation or rather a ROCK u can create a beautiful building or rather God can through u. Ur open concept though allows everybody into ur sad ruins while at my house there is only ONE entrance!!
@rbmath Learn what the bible actually says and do the will of God first and then maybe God will pay attention to your prayers. U need a swift rebuke from Jesus and that is what I pray for u, that somehow God would shake up ur life to get u to see that there is only ONE Lord.
@swenmanwwjd12. Your comments make me, first laugh than feel sad, because of your utter lack of understanding who God is and your continuing to ignore the scriptures I have posted. and imposing your own ideas into scriptures...
@rbmath If these are my own ideas then lots of other people have them too? And that doesn't make sense. The difference between your faith and mine is that mine is from heaven and yours is from earth. Mine is from God and yours is from men.
@swenmanwwjd12 If you're so sure of your understand than WHY do not honestly deal with the scriptures that I have posted?. You said "WITH MYSELF" you have yet to show me where it say in connection with the scriptures I posted about "WITH GOD" where is actually says "WITH MYSELF" John 1:1-3. THESE do NOT say, as you falsely think , with ἐμαυτοῦ MYSELF , it says WITH θεός God.
@swenmanwwjd12 Its not me who needs to reword Divinely Inspired Scriptures to suit my theology. I do NOT have to reinterpret the "WITH God" scriptures to suit my theology. I do NOT have to think that it really means "WITH MYSELF" its YOU...
@swenmanwwjd12 If you're going to disagree with me than PLEASE CORRECTLY state my views. RE:"is some being other" is 100% WRONG. "Father, The Word and the Holy Spirit are ONE BEING, BUT they are NOT each other, They are ONE Essence / Substance / Spirit of what makes God, God. They are in in PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with each other. Three Divine Persons, I have already explained the meaning of the word "person" in Christian Theology.
@swenmanwwjd12 You should quote the scriptures FULLY in CONTEXT. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning WITH God. Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality WITH God a thing to be grasped,
@swenmanwwjd12 You should quote the scriptures FULLY in CONTEXT. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning WITH God. Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality WITH God a thing to be grasped,
@rbmath That's a pretty phrase. Ur faith is in grammar & man's philosophy. U have set up ur own kingdom of heaven. A false one tho. U r antichrist if u dont teach that God came in flesh as Jesus. Wen Jesus said this is my "body" which is broken for u & this is my "blood" that was God the Father talking. Those words would be of no importance at all unless it was God (who is the Father) speaking. Acts 20:28 says God purchased the church with "His OWN Blood." Compare to Rev1:5 U dead meat.
@swenmanwwjd12 You already accused me of this and I DID correct your wrong views of my theology but, it seems that you would rather believe your falsehoods about me to make your self feel better.
@rbmath No u don't confess Jesus as "THE" Lord. That means "THE" Father. Only ONE rb...when it says "to the glory of God the Father." That means confessing Jesus all the way to being the Father. That means confessing God's manifestation in flesh.
@rbmath Ever read Isaiah 9:6? What about John 8:58? And John 14:9? U r greatly deceived like I said. U r looking for the wrong things in the bible. Ur condemnation is justified. U twist the scriptures unto ur own destruction just like Peter said u would. 2 Peter 3:16
@rbmath Ever read Isaiah 9:6? What about John 8:58? And John 14:9? U r greatly deceived like I said. U r looking for the wrong things in the bible. Ur condemnation is justified. U twist the scriptures unto ur own destruction just like Peter said u would. 2 Peter 3:16
@rbmath Ever read Isaiah 9:6? What about John 8:58? And John 14:9? U r greatly deceived like I said. U r looking for the wrong things in the bible. Ur condemnation is justified. U twist the scriptures unto ur own destruction just like Peter said u would. 2 Peter 3:16
@rbmath Ever read Isaiah 9:6? What about John 8:58? And John 14:9? U r greatly deceived like I said. U r looking for the wrong things in the bible. Ur condemnation is justified. U twist the scriptures unto ur own destruction just like Peter said u would. 2 Peter 3:16
@rbmath I can't believe that u cannot see how prideful u r. Hebrews 1:3 is a direct teaching of Jesus being the "person" of God the Father. How can u be so blind?
@rbmath U need the truth preached unto u. These things r the truth and the bible says "How shall they hear without a preacher." Rom 10:14. U need the way of God "expounded unto u more "perfectly" just like Apollos did in Acts 18:26. U did not know these things they are hidden things and neither did I until God showed them to me just like it says in Is 48:6-8 but the difference is that scripture is directed towards u because I can declare Him as the Father and u won't declare it.
@rbmath Most importantly about Is 48:6-11 is that in verse 11 God reiterates Himself by saying He will not give His glory unto another, speaking directly to people like u who think God shares His glory with 2 other members. These verses are emphatically referring to u polytheists who will not declare Him as God (who is the Father). U r so dead.
@swenmanwwjd12 Is 48:6-11 .. Your views assume that my view of trinity is wrong and is really Tritheism. You have not honestly deal with the scriptures that I have posted the "WITH God" it does NOT say "WITH MYSELF"
@rbmath The "WORD" means God's "Power" was with God. No one else. It's like it's saying, God has the power, He's the ONE. It's like the phrase what's the word man?" What u r really saying is what is the news? That's what it's like with God. God's "WORD" is His "Power" and God's "Power" is Jesus Christ and the good "news." The word God in it's broadest sense includes everything like the scripture says "we live and move and have our being in Him." How can we live in God if He is not vast?
@swenmanwwjd12 "WORD".. NO. Its G3056 logos a statement, a speech. It does NOT mean "Power". The Greek word is NOT, G1411 δύναμις dunamis, power, might, strength, John 1:1 PERSONALIZES the "WORD" and says the Word was WITH God and WAS God.
@rbmath But if u speak of Him as a person than He is Jesus Christ. So do we "live and move and have our being in Jesus Christ?" Yes we do, in His "vastness." So in God's "vastness" and in His "mind" everything is included right down to the atmosphere we live in. John 1:1 is like John is addressing the question "Who has the "Power?" Who is the ONE with the "AUTHORITY?" Who has the "WORD?" The "FINAL SAY?" And he answers the question and lays it down and says God is the ONE.
@rbmath So "Who should we listen to?" The answer is "GOD." Because the "WORD" is with Him and no one else. Now, when it says the "WORD" WAS GOD, now we can see that God is saying He is Jesus Christ.
@swenmanwwjd12 So... Again QUOTE THE FULL CONTEXT which denies your views. KJV John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God. :2 The same was in the beginning WITH God.
@rbmath U must read bible with Spirit of God. First receive Spirit with stammering lips than u will be able to interpret what God is saying from His written word. Renounce polytheism and become a christian.
@swenmanwwjd12 . With all honestly. The more you say the more you make laugh than see how blind you are to the truth. I'm not the one who needs to reinterpret John 1:1 to suit my theology. I actually believe what it says
@rbmath Is 28:12 Tongues is the refreshing and His rest. But just as the scripture says, "...yet they would not hear." U do not hear because u do not accept tongues. U have made precepts and rules about what a believer is to look like. So because of this u will go backward and be broken and snared just as the scripture says. U do not understand that where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom. Freedom to dance and cry and speak in tongues and surrender to the Lord.
@swenmanwwjd12 The WORD who WAS God and WITH God became FLESH who at the Father's side. John1:1,14,18. The WORD did consider equality WITH God,Php 2:6 while The WORD had brightness of HIS glory,Heb 1:3. The WORD HAD God's glory WITH God BEFORE the world was. John 17:5. Everything was made by HIM the WORD, John 1:1-3. THESE do NOT say, as you falsely think , with ἐμαυτοῦ MYSELF , it says WITH θεός God.
@swenmanwwjd12 The WORD who WAS God and WITH God became FLESH who at the Father's side. John1:1,14,18. The WORD did consider equality WITH God,Php 2:6 while The WORD had brightness of HIS glory,Heb 1:3. The WORD HAD God's glory WITH God BEFORE the world was. John 17:5. Everything was made by HIM the WORD, John 1:1-3. THESE do NOT say, as you falsely think , with ἐμαυτοῦ MYSELF , it says WITH θεός God.
@swenmanwwjd12 RE:Persons.. THIS is what I have been trying to explain to you from the first post. You have a wrong understanding of how the words "Person and Being" are used in the trinity. You LIMIT their meaning to their MODERN USAGE without trying to understand how they were used in Trinitarian theology. Again You are understanding it in the MODERN tangible meaning. The word “Persons” in the trinity is to be understood as imageless, timeless, beginningless, uncaused relations. .
@rbmath regarding "echad" in Deut 6:4: The Jews never split God into 'persons', because they KNOW what 'echad' means. Gen 2:24 “the SAME [echad] language”; Gen 11:1 “they all have the SAME [echad] language” Now, let's look at Jesus' words that the Holy Spirit is 'another' Comforter (John 14:6) - the Greek word is 'allon' meaning, "more of the SAME". Compare this to Jesus appearing in "another [hetera - different] form [morphe]" in Mark 16:12.
judahsdaughter 2 weeks ago
@judahsdaughter Never said the Jews did. They also rejected Jesus... and not sure what you said disproves my posts about "echad"
rbmath 2 weeks ago
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@rbmath regarding "echad" in Deut 6:4: The Jews never split God into 'persons', because they KNOW what 'echad' means. Gen 2:24 “the SAME [echad] language”; Gen 11:1 “they all have the SAME [echad] language” Now, let's look at Jesus' words that the Holy Spirit is 'another' Comforter (John 14:6) - the Greek word is 'allon' meaning, "more of the SAME". Compare this to Jesus appearing in "another [hetera - different] form [morphe]" in Mark 16:12.
judahsdaughter 2 weeks ago
@rbmath regarding "echad" in Deut 6:4: The Jews never split God into 'persons', because they KNOW what 'echad' means. Gen 2:24 “the SAME [echad] language”; Gen 11:1 “they all have the SAME [echad] language” Now, let's look at Jesus' words that the Holy Spirit is 'another' Comforter (John 14:6) - the Greek word is 'allon' meaning, "more of the SAME". Compare this to Jesus appearing in "another [hetera - different] form [morphe]" in Mark 16:12.
judahsdaughter 2 weeks ago
Sorry, I thought your Oneness guest was 'Doug Harris'. Marvin Sanguinetti is the one I hope to receive more information as to his website and teachings, please. Thank you.
ily2booify 3 weeks ago
Re Col 2:9 "Godhead" is not the proper translation. "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." One Deity (God) IN Christ.
ily2booify 3 weeks ago
JT, Mat 24:36 (KJV) states, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." 'The Son' was inserted. The feast of Trumpets (Rosh HaShanah) is called "The day and hour no man knows". Jesus definitely knows when He will return. Regarding Acts 7:55, Steven's vision, the 'glory of God' is not a person. Steven saw God's glory and the person of Jesus Christ, the 'right hand' [power] of God. Jesus IS yet the image of the invisible God.
ily2booify 3 weeks ago
JT, In Rev 22:1, The 'throne' of God and [kai] of the Lamb" is still One Throne. The Throne is not plural. 'Kai' can be interpreted, 'even'. The throne of God, even the Lamb...amen.
ily2booify 3 weeks ago
To JT: Regarding John 1:1 The Greek states "The Word was 'pros' [to] God" - Here, 'God' is 'theon' (object), which can be interpreted as angels and magistrates (created before man) and prophetic as coming to and speaking to 'elohim/theon', believers as shown in Ps 82:6 and John 10:34. And, the Greek literally states in that latter part of the verse, "God [Theos, subject] was the Word".
ily2booify 3 weeks ago
Does Doug Harris have a website? Please email the website to me at judahsdaughter@gmail.com. Thank you!
ily2booify 3 weeks ago
What JT needs to understand is that Mat 28:19 was admittedly altered by the RCC (The Catholic Encyclopedia, 2, pg 263), just as the Johannine Comma (1 John 5:7) was altered. Nowhere in the NT do we see the Apostles baptizing in this manner, but in the name of the Lord, Jesus Christ. Doug Harris, I want to study all I can from you! You have the anointing of Christ. Thank you and bless you always.
ily2booify 3 weeks ago
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Yes, but you are begging the point. This is exactly the nature of your error (that you fail to accept the plurality of person the Bible discusses) that you want to go on and on offering your assertions as the basis of the argument. The only way you can insist that Jehovah is not TRIUNE in His persons is to ignore and deny the clear teachings of scripture, You have to ignore that the Lord Jesus says to make disciples of all men baptizing in his NAME of Father, Son &the Holy Ghost.
shieldsff 3 weeks ago
As I understand it what happened in the time of the Arians is still happening with some people today, that is, they limit God, that is to say, God is NOT limited to human intellectual reasoning.
rbmath 1 month ago
@rbmath Sir, what point are u making? Either u think God is a trinity? Or u know God is Jesus? Or u have ur own belief system? Can u clarify ur stance?
swenmanwwjd12 3 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 ... I believe in the teaching of the Historic Trinity. The Nicene Creed (381 A.D.), Athanasian Creed, Definition of Chalcedon,
rbmath 3 weeks ago
@rbmath Ok I believe Jesus is God even the Father. So u r saying that since I believe in One God numerically like the bible teaches I am limiting God?
swenmanwwjd12 3 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12.You falsely assuming, that because I believe in the historic trinity than I must naturally deny monotheism. Your failure to properly understand the use of the words as they are/were use in Christian theology is creating a stumbling block, You falsely assume that my view is "Tritheism", which was rejected as one the "Trinitarian Heresies" along with your view of " Modalism (i.e. Sabellianism, Noetianism and Patripassianism).
rbmath 3 weeks ago
@rbmath How many trinities and doctrines of trinities are there?
swenmanwwjd12 3 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 I assume that as you have not replied to my email where I challenged you to discuss the scriptures in the Greek, you have realised that, in me, you had bitten off more than you could chew.
So now you move on to easier fry to spread your lies? (cont...)
MrJayguess 3 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 cont...
I respectfully suggest you hold your tongue and desist from any more misleading of others here until you have actually learned a little about the Christian faith. You boast about the 'millions' who think like you, yet conveniently ignore the many BILLIONS in history who have not.
Ask yourself " What am I (emphasised) missing here? Despite a v. narrow knowledge base you assert that everyone is out of step except you. Isn't that arrogance in its worst form?
MrJayguess 3 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 .RE:How many trinities ....Not sure how this question comes about since I said "I believe in the teaching of the Historic Trinity. The Nicene Creed (381 A.D.), Athanasian Creed, Definition of Chalcedon,"
rbmath 3 weeks ago
@rbmath So what is it then? Is your faith in Jesus or in trinity?
swenmanwwjd12 3 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 .. Your question assumes that the trinity is not biblical. If you reject the trinity than you reject Jesus.
rbmath 3 weeks ago
@rbmath How is it (in your eyes) that if I reject trinity I am rejecting Jesus? Do I need someone or something other than Him? I would like bible scripture that says "If you reject the trinity than you reject Jesus." Where is that scripture? I got scripture that says "He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life." 1 John 5:12 Apparently God believes all we need is Jesus. So where is your scripture?
swenmanwwjd12 3 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12. NASB John 8:24 "Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins." You reject WHO Jesus truly IS. All the scriptures properly understood clearly teach the trinity. Your view naturally leads too "Patripassianism". It was really God the Father playing the role of Jesus who died on the cross..
rbmath 3 weeks ago
@rbmath In John 8:24 Jesus was talking about the Father. The "He" who Jesus claimed to be in that verse is the Father just read verse 8:27 John clears it all up with that verse. Then farther down in verse 8:58 He really got their attention when he said "I AM."
swenmanwwjd12 3 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 John 8:24. ANSWER: You do know that their are verses in between verse 24 to 27. You fail to naturally follow the reasoning of John. Verse John 8:25 is ANOTHER QUESTION which Jesus answers and their lack of understanding is pointed out in verse 27..
rbmath 3 weeks ago
@rbmath rbmath being the "Messiah" means u r the Everlasting Father in flesh. God and man joined. The "Christ." Christ means Messiah. That's why in 1 John 2:22 John says denying the Christ is denying the Father and the Son.
swenmanwwjd12 3 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12.. The Trinitarian Faith" by T.F Torrance, Page 78. "Throughout the early Church the *FATHER* was understood in a two-fold but indivisible way, as the one being of the Godhead, and as the Father of the Son, whose Person is distinct from the Person of the Son and from the Person of the Spirit-although, of course, the one being of God is known to us only through the Son and in the Spirit." Gregory Nyss. De Trin., Opera. Mal 2:10..
rbmath 3 weeks ago
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rbmath 3 weeks ago
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@swenmanwwjd12 ESV John. 1:1.. WITH God. ,18,,the only God, who is at the Father's side... Php 2:6 who, though he (JESUS) was in the form of God, did not count equality WITH God. To be "WITH" someone their needs to be least TWO people...
rbmath 3 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 Heb 1:3..RADIANCE . "As light is never without its radiance, So the Father is never without his Son or without his Word. Moreover just as light and radiance are one and are not alien to one another, So the Father and Son are one and are not alien to one another but are of one and the same being. And just as God is eternal light, so the Son of God as eternal radiance of God is himself eternal light without beginning and without end. Athanasius ...
rbmath 3 weeks ago
@rbmath Hebrews 1:1-3 really shatters the "3 persons theory." Just read verse 3. That verse alone deals specifically with the "persons theory" by stating that the Son is the express image of "God's person."
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 Heb 1:3..RADIANCE . "As light is never without its radiance, So the Father is never without his Son or without his Word. Moreover just as light and radiance are one and are not alien to one another, So the Father and Son are one and are not alien to one another but are of one and the same being. And just as God is eternal light, so the Son of God as eternal radiance of God is himself eternal light without beginning and without end. Athanasius..
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@rbmath In the Athanasian Creed verse 7 it says "Such as the Father is, such is the Son and such is the Holy Spirit." Now if we apply this verse then we can see that if the Father is a "Father" then the Son is a "Father" too, all because "Such as the Father is, such is the Son." But now that doesn't mean their are 3 Fathers now does it? I don't think the trinity was thinking when they thought that one up? Did they all work on that one together?
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 try reading the Athanasian Creed IN PROPER CONTEXT.. In line 6 it show the context of line 7 which is the "Godhead" its NOT about being 3 PERSONS of the Father...
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@rbmath God does not share His glory rbmath like line 6 of the Athanasian Creed tries to portray. Jesus was "equal" with God because He was and is God. That's how He's equal with God because He is Him...... "the glory equal????" "the majesty COETERNAL?????" these are LIES from the Harlot Church everybody! Col. 2:8 "Beware lest any man SPOIL u through philosophy and vain deceit, AFTER THE TRADITION OF MEN, after the rudiments of the world, and NOT AFTER CHRIST."
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
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@swenmanwwjd12. I KNOW that Jesus IS God. The question is, Is Jesus God the FATHER. NO. As I said before. You hold to one of the Trinitarian Heresies known as Modalism.. AGAIN. ESV John. 1:1.. WITH God. ,18,,the only God, who is at the Father's side... Php 2:6 who, though he (JESUS) was in the form of God, did not count equality WITH God. To be "WITH" someone their needs to be least TWO people..
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@rbmath continued...Col. 2:9 "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the godhead bodily!" STAND FIRM SAINTS...ALL WE NEED IS IN THE LORD JESUS. DO U BELIEVE THAT? GIVE ME AN AMEN!!!
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 The bottom line is this. WHICH "Jesus" do you have? The one claimed by "Modalism" Which denies God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit and teaches that these are only roles or “modes” that are being played. It denies that, Jesus Divinity existed WITH God the Father. OR do you have the "Jesus" of the Historic Trinity as clearly taught from the bible?
rbmath 3 weeks ago
@rbmath Not 3 gods rbmath. Only 1 God. The Father, which is Jesus Christ, also known as the "Son of God." The Son is the Father in the flesh. The bible does not talk about "God the Son" because that is a made up term. When u say "God the..." and "God the..." and "God the..." That is 3 gods not 1 rbmath.
swenmanwwjd12 3 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 Not 3 gods rbmath.. ANSWER: So I was right that you do falsely assume Tritheism on my part...
rbmath 3 weeks ago
@rbmath The trinity is a well thought out scheme developed by the devil and his counterparts. It deceives people into thinking that they actually believe in only 1 God. Let me ask u, have u ever been to a church where people have spoke with tongues?
swenmanwwjd12 3 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 Exactly WHAT does the teaching of the Trinity have to do with people who speak in tongues. And no I have not, and people have a great misunderstanding of the tongues teachings....
rbmath 3 weeks ago
@rbmath Knowing God comes through revelation. God prophesied that one day He would speak to us or reveal Himself more to us through "stammering lips and another tongue." Isaiah 28:11. Read 1 Corinthians 13:8-12 When Jesus returns there will be no further need for God to reveal Himself to us anymore because He will be with us in flesh. Therefore tongues will cease and prophecies will end and the knowledge of Him will be complete.
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 Knowing God comes through READING His Divinely Inspired Word.
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@rbmath No, knowing God comes through revelation Matthew 11:27. Your faith must not be in WORD alone. Reading the bible alone will not save you. Your faith must be in the POWER of God. 1 Corinthians 2:3-5 and 4:20
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 1Th_5:21 but test everything; hold fast what is good. I never said to read the bible without faith. The bible is FINAL authority in knowing God. NOT man's sinful evil heart that leads him astray...
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@rbmath U can know the bible inside and out and still miss Jesus right in front of u. Like the pharisees did. They knew scripture inside and out but missed God in the flesh.
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 RE:pharisees did... 1Co_2:8. Joh 12:39-40...
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@rbmath If I were u I would at least get myself to a church that does not forbid speaking with tongues like 1 Corinthians 14:39 says. I urge it to be an Apostolic church. Start there and God will deal with u more and more. Those churches that do not allow speaking with tongues are breaking the commandments of the Lord. 1 Corinthians 14:37
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 Speaking in tongues is not the issue, what's more important is your heretical view of the trinity.
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@rbmath No, the most important thing here is love brother, even if we can fathom all mysteries if we don't have love we are nothing. Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life..." brother all we need is in Him alone.
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 WHAT is the FIRST and GREATEST love for Christians? Mat 22:36-37.. its to love God FIRST and MOST of all... You do not love, you love an image of God that you have made...
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@rbmath That's only the second half of the 1st commandment. The first half of that is "Hear O Israel the Lord our God is ONE Lord"
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
@rbmath Mark 12:29-30, Duet. 6:4-5
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 "the LORD is one" One Deu 6:4 is H259 "echad" unifed ONE. NOT, H3173 "yachid" means "only, only one, solitary" is NEVER used of God. in Gen_2:24 speaking of Adam and Even, one "echad" flesh, BUT Adam and Even are TWO PEOPLE.
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@rbmath A grave mistake to make is to think that "echad" means more than one person. A person is an individual. Don't u understand why they used that word "person" in Hebrews 1:3? Answer: So they could repel the notion of more than ONE being who is God. So they could express that only "Jesus" is the true God.
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 "echad".. WHY. because you say so. If the Godhead was as you falsely claim One "person" than WHY was the Hebrew word H3173 "yachid" used in Deu 6:4?. Heb 1:3 was answered. NSAB Heb 1:3 And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, This shows TWO things. 1) the radiance. 2) His glory. Also "exact" charaktēr CANNOT be said of a HUMAN BEING.
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 The KJV, NKJV, translates the "hupostasis" as person. Modern up to date translations such as, NASB, ESV, HCSB says, "nature" NET bible says "essence". It comes down too exactly HOW do you understand the Greek word "hupostasis"? As you suggest "person" than HOW do you understand the word "person" as applied to God. A "person" with a BODY of some kind? that is tangible some how? Or is better translated as "nature or essence"?
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 .So they could repel the notion of more than ONE being who is God. ANSWER: to make sure that my views are clear. I do NOT believe that God is "more than ONE being". Proper Trinitarian Theology uses "Being and Person" DIFFERENTLY. God is One BEING / essence / substance of what make's God God, Three Divine Persons, NOT meaning tangible or, Matthew, Mark and John as three persons, this would be one of the Trinitarian Heresies known as "Tritheism"
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@rbmath U don't even know what u believe. That's y I posted "the trinity deceives people into thinking they actually believe in ONE God. If u knew what u believe u would know that u don't believe in ONE God who is Jesus Christ alone. Who is Jehovah Most High God.
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 U don't even know what u believe.... ANSWER: Yes I do. Because your lack understanding of what I believe does mean that I do...
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@rbmath When Jesus tells u something u try to ask a "mind in the sky" that is "distinct" from Jesus for confirmation. U will never get it because the "mind in the sky" that u pray to is the "god of this world." U don't recollect that Jesus is the name of the Father and except u believe that Jesus is the Father u will die in ur sins (Jn 8:24) BECAUSE u will never be baptized into His name which remits our sin (Mk 16:16/Acts 2:38/Lk 24:47). Only the name of Jesus will save u friend.
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 I will ask you again. HOW do you understand the word "person" in Heb 1:3 KJV, as applied to God. A "person" with a BODY of some kind? that is tangible some how? Or is better translated as "nature or essence"?
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12. A proper understanding of the trinity is difficult to understand, this is why I posted "Arians operated with the principle that what they could not humanly conceive could not be. ... That is to say, they equated the limits of their understanding with the limits of reality, and thereby laid down conditions for their understanding of God and their interpretation of divine revelation." Hilary of Poitiers De Trinity i.13, 15, 3.1,20,. Basil Con. Eunomius., 2.24....
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 ..God is not limited to human intellectual reasoning. YOU are limiting God your finite understanding...
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@rbmath Jesus said eternal life was "knowing" God the Father and Him. John 17:3 and John said in 1 John 5:20 that we have been given an "UNDERSTANDING" that we may "KNOW" Him who is true.
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 John 17:5 Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS.
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@rbmath I SAID WHERE IS THE HOLY SPIRIT IN THIS VERSE! Answer the question rbmath and dont side step. U said u r a trinitarian not a binitarian, but u continually only try to show a distinction between Jesus and God the Father, that's only 2.
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
@rbmath Jn 17:3 Jesus defined ETERNAL LIFE in this verse and He left out your "Holy Spirit 3rd PERSON" and said that "ETERNAL LIFE WAS KNOWING THE ONLY TRUE GOD AND JESUS CHRIST whom thou hast sent." Don't jump to a different scripture, this is the one that deals with the issue of ETERNAL LIFE.
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 RE:Don't jump to a different scripture.. ANSWER: WOW, So your saying lets NOT understand the CONTEXT of what Jesus said in John 17:5.. Why Jesus did not mention the Holy Spirit in verse 3 I do not know, it does NOT change what Jesus said in verse 5. I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS. Verse 5 denies your Modalism along with MANY other verses that you deny in proper CONTEXT...
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@rbmath He didn't mention the Holy Spirit in verse 3 because the Holy Spirit is not a separate member of a 3 person roman catholic/protestant god squad. SO u did not understand y Jesus did not mention the Holy Spirit and now u do.
swenmanwwjd12 2 weeks ago
@swenmanwwjd12 so your claiming to read the mind of the Lord as why He did not mention the Holy Spirit in verse BUT you REFUSE to believe what Jesus said in verse 5.. I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS., John 1:1..WITH God..Php 2:6.. equal WITH God.
rbmath 2 weeks ago
@rbmath Friend we know Jesus is "ETERNAL" He is the ONE TRUE GOD dude. What ur trying to do is make another "god" who is next to "God" and that can never be because Jesus will not give His glory unto another. Isaiah 48:11-12 Truly this is not that hard to understand and to not understand it is to be unbelieving. God Himself came down in flesh and redeemed His people from sin.
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 This goes back to what I already posted. "Arians operated with the principle that what they could not humanly conceive could not be. ... That is to say, they equated the limits of their understanding with the limits of reality, and thereby laid down conditions for their understanding of God and their interpretation of divine revelation." Hilary of Poitiers De Trinity i.13, 15, 3.1,20,. Basil Con. Eunomius., 2.24...
rbmath 1 week ago
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@swenmanwwjd12 YOU LIMIT GOD TO YOUR FINITE THINKING.. you refuse to deal with what I asked.. HOW do you understand the word "person" in Heb 1:3 KJV, as applied to God. A "person" with a BODY of some kind? that is tangible some how? Or is better translated as "nature or essence"?...
rbmath 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 Who was "WITH GOD"? do you REFUSE to believe what Jesus said in verse 5.. I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS., John 1:1..WITH God..Php 2:6.. equal WITH God.
rbmath 1 week ago
RBMATH! Jesus is not alongside God the Father like 2 people are next to each other. It's not 1 person next to another person. The mystery of godliness is like a riddle like in Psalms 30:4 surely u know! This is a mystery only revealed to those that truly love Jesus John 14:21 this is the chapter where Jesus declares Himself as the Father to His disciples and this is exactly what He came to do. To "manifest" or "make known" the name of the Father. John 17:6
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 RE: Father like 2 people.. ANSWER: Once again, it comes down to HOW you understand the word "PERSON", you have a WRONG understanding how its used. You are understanding it in the MODERN use, such as, CREATED / PHYSICAL / body / tangible, This is NOT how it is used.. Until you honestly deal with questions that I have been asking you, you will always fail to see the truth, namely that YOU are limiting God to your small finite reasoning..
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath The definition of the trinity is that there are 3 "persons" that exist within the being of God etc etc. There is no "HOW do u understand the word PERSON?" NO! A person is what a person means. The word explains itself. U just won't abide in the meaning and u want to venture outside of it and make up ur own.
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 The bible uses "ANTHROPOMORPHISM" language to show spiritual truth. Example. Psa_36:7. God does NOT Literally have "wings" RE: Person. Let me say it this way. HOW do you understand the GREEK word "hupostasis" in Heb 1:3. IF you insist on the MODERN understanding of the word "PERSON" meaning a PHYSICAL BODY. Are you than like the Mormons who believe that God HAS A BODY OF FLESH AND BONES? We have to understand what the AUTHOR of Hebrews was saying, how he understood the word.
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath U r aiding the devil. He has used this trick from the beginning when he made Eve question God's word in Gen. 3:1 when he said "Yea, hath God said..." I can just hear him now saying "Yea, did God really use the word "person" in Heb 1:3 & is that what He really means?" Well actually yeah He did use that word & u can't erase it or take it away. Neither can u add to it. It is perfect and expresses exactly what God is saying. That Jesus Christ is the "EXPRESS IMAGE OF GOD'S PERSON"
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 U r aiding the devil ANSWER: Again ADDRESS the scriptures in CONTEXT. What does the ORIGINAL Greek word ὑπόστασις MEAN to us today. You do know that God did not use English as the original Divinely Inspired language? TWO things are shown in Heb 1:3. (1) the brightness. The source OF the "brightness" (2) of his glory.. EXAMPLE. You have physical body of the sun itself. AND you have LIGHT coming OFF of the sun BOTH exist simultaneously.
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath Yes but u don't split the light that comes off the sun into a different person (if the sun were a person that is.) The light that comes off the sun is the sun. Not another member of the sun or a new will or being it's the sun plain and simple. But that's what u have done with God. U have made His light another member, another person other than Himself. Let me ask u about ur little verse John 1:1. WHO was the WORD according to John 1:1?
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 RE:split the light) You still have the wrong understanding of the word "person".The point was to show show you TWO things exist simultaneously, they cannot exist without the other. The Divinity of Jesus ALWAYS existed WITH God and WAS God as John 1:1 TEACHES. WHY did you change the question and avoided the words "WITH" God and WAS God. Their has to be TWO to be WITH someone..
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath That is a lie from hell. I am "WITH" myself right now. I have thoughts to myself, I have feelings to myself, I can speak words to myself, I can even encourage myself. If I can be with myself and I was made in the image of God, then God certainly can be "WITH" Himself too. Which is what Jn 1:1 is saying. It literally says that God was "WITH" God (meaning Himself). Surely u understand now.
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 I am "WITH".. ANSWER: Again DEAL with what the Divinely Inspired Scriptures have to say, NOT what you want them to say. The idea is the WORD who WAS God and WITH God became FLESH who at the Father's side. The WORD did consider equality WITH God, while The WORD had brightness of HIS glory, The WORD HAD God's glory WITH God BEFORE the world was. Everything was made by HIM, THESE do NOT say, as you falsely think , with ἐμαυτοῦ , it says WITH θεός
rbmath 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 You are placing your own ideas INTO scriptures, instead of letting scriptures speak for themselves..
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath Have u never heard the Oneness of God before? Haven't u heard about the United Pentecostal Movement? Which is what "Marvin" in this video is an ordained minister of?
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
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@rbmath Have u never heard the Oneness of God before? Haven't u heard about the United Pentecostal Movement? Which is what "Marvin" in this video is an ordained minister of?
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@rbmath No, u must have the Holy Spirit first before u can interpret the word.
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 Holy Spirit. ANSWER: You falsely assume that because I disagree with your views that I do not have the Holy Spirit..
rbmath 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 Is Jesus RIGHT to say this. John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I HAD WITH thee BEFORE the world was.
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath WITH THINE OWN SELF RBMATH!! It's like Jesus is saying " I am YOU God and YOU are ME!! The bible says Jesus is the "IMAGE OF THE INVISIBLE GOD!"
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 WITH THINE OWN SELF. ANSWER:That is NOT what John 17:5 says. it clearly shows TWO Divine Persons. John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath U are so mixed up guy. U can't have TWO DIVINE PERSONS because there is only 1 LORD. What do u not understand about the word ONE? U r brainwashed and ur conscience is seared to the uttermost. U have believed a lie and a trick and ur faith is in a fable. A tradition of men. U must be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, which NAME is JESUS CHRIST. This is why the Apostles baptized in His NAME because they obeyed His commandment. Acts 2:38
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
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rbmath 1 week ago
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@swenmanwwjd12 mixed up. ANSWER: With all due respect. You are repeating your errors that we went over already. As I pointed out at least twice. YOU are limiting God to your finite small reasoning.
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath He wears God's "IMAGE" God's "PERSON" He also bears God's "NAME!" Don't u understand yet?
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 He wears. ANSWER: AND How does this DENY what I have been saying.
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath Because what it's saying is that Jesus actually is the Father. Whereas u think it says He is sharing His glory with Jesus. U think it's 1 person next to another person. U r drinking damnation upon urself and u have absolutely no idea at all. Deceived to the uttermost.
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 Exactly WHERE does Jesus say that He is the Person of God the Father. Once again You have WRONG understanding of the word "person"
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath Surely u r seeing the error of trying to add another member into the mix now?
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
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@swenmanwwjd12 Surely u r.. ANSWER: NO. I'm saying your still clueless as to what the words REALLY mean in THEOLOGY...
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath Know for certain that the EARLY CHURCH was BAPTIZED INTO THE NAME OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST for THE REMISSION OF SINS! Meaning that was the name that was spoken over them or was "called" upon them in baptism. Not the way u were baptized if u even have been? Which is one reason u r causing so much contention. U haven't even done what the Lord commanded us to do yet.
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 RE:BAPTIZED. WHAT did Jesus say? Mat 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
rbmath 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 Who was "WITH GOD"? do you REFUSE to believe what Jesus said in verse 5.. I HAD WITH THEE BEFORE THE WORLD WAS., John 1:1..WITH God..Php 2:6.. equal WITH God..
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath I got news for u. If u deny that God (Jesus Christ) became flesh and bones u r not of God. U r antichrist. 1Jn 4:1-3
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 1Jn 4:1-3.. ANSWER: Once AGAIN. I believe that Jesus IS FULLY God come in the flesh. So HOW do these scriptures apply to me when I have NOT denied them?
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath Because u deny that God (Jesus Christ) came in the flesh. Meaning the Father. When u say "Jesus Christ" or "God" u say " the Father." Get it? I will say it again "When anybody says "God" it's supposed to mean "the Father." So when u deny that Jesus Christ came in the flesh u r actually denying that the Father came in flesh because Jesus is God.
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 u deny.. ANSWER: NO. I do not deny that God came in the flesh. And you already falsely accused me of this.
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath Yes u do deny that Jesus Christ came in the flesh because u don't think He is the Father. U have clung to a myth. Jesus said "ALL power is given unto ME in heaven and in earth." Notice Jesus first says "in heaven" meaning if there was (as u say) some other person up there with Him then that other person has no power at all because Jesus just said HE has it ALL. U r greatly deceived and brainwashed. Even in heaven He has all the power.
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 Yes u. ANSWER: Your mind is closed to whom God truly is.
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath That's a lie rbmath. I know exactly who God is because Jesus revealed Himself to me and I have witnesses to back me up. God is Jesus Christ. U r the one who is closed off to who God really is. We can "talk" about it all day but to actually "do" the truth is another thing. I have evidence from the things God has done in my life that proves He knows me and I know Him.
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@rbmath It is my joy to extinguish your firey darts with the WATER, the SPIRIT and the BLOOD of 1Jn 5:8. I have this testimony in myself because I believe "ON" the Son of God and this is not my doing but God's. U have not this witness in u because u do not believe "ON" Jesus. U might say u believe "IN" Jesus but u surely don't believe "ON" Jesus which means to believe "Correctly."
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@rbmath U can build "IN" a faulty foundation because there is no pressure on it, but u cannot build "ON" a "faulty foundation" and expect it to stand. While u build things in ur faulty foundation they might be nice things but ur house is in ruins. In like manner to build on a firm foundation or rather a ROCK u can create a beautiful building or rather God can through u. Ur open concept though allows everybody into ur sad ruins while at my house there is only ONE entrance!!
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12. I pray that God would open your mind to the scriptures.
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath Learn what the bible actually says and do the will of God first and then maybe God will pay attention to your prayers. U need a swift rebuke from Jesus and that is what I pray for u, that somehow God would shake up ur life to get u to see that there is only ONE Lord.
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12. Your comments make me, first laugh than feel sad, because of your utter lack of understanding who God is and your continuing to ignore the scriptures I have posted. and imposing your own ideas into scriptures...
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath If these are my own ideas then lots of other people have them too? And that doesn't make sense. The difference between your faith and mine is that mine is from heaven and yours is from earth. Mine is from God and yours is from men.
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 If you're so sure of your understand than WHY do not honestly deal with the scriptures that I have posted?. You said "WITH MYSELF" you have yet to show me where it say in connection with the scriptures I posted about "WITH GOD" where is actually says "WITH MYSELF" John 1:1-3. THESE do NOT say, as you falsely think , with ἐμαυτοῦ MYSELF , it says WITH θεός God.
rbmath 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 Its not me who needs to reword Divinely Inspired Scriptures to suit my theology. I do NOT have to reinterpret the "WITH God" scriptures to suit my theology. I do NOT have to think that it really means "WITH MYSELF" its YOU...
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath And I'm not the one that thinks the "Word" is some being other than God Himself. The WORD WAS God the scripture says.
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
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@swenmanwwjd12 If you're going to disagree with me than PLEASE CORRECTLY state my views. RE:"is some being other" is 100% WRONG. "Father, The Word and the Holy Spirit are ONE BEING, BUT they are NOT each other, They are ONE Essence / Substance / Spirit of what makes God, God. They are in in PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP with each other. Three Divine Persons, I have already explained the meaning of the word "person" in Christian Theology.
rbmath 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 You should quote the scriptures FULLY in CONTEXT. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning WITH God. Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality WITH God a thing to be grasped,
rbmath 1 week ago
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@swenmanwwjd12 You should quote the scriptures FULLY in CONTEXT. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning WITH God. Php 2:6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality WITH God a thing to be grasped,
rbmath 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 Your view is Patripassianism. God the Father died on the cross.
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath That's a pretty phrase. Ur faith is in grammar & man's philosophy. U have set up ur own kingdom of heaven. A false one tho. U r antichrist if u dont teach that God came in flesh as Jesus. Wen Jesus said this is my "body" which is broken for u & this is my "blood" that was God the Father talking. Those words would be of no importance at all unless it was God (who is the Father) speaking. Acts 20:28 says God purchased the church with "His OWN Blood." Compare to Rev1:5 U dead meat.
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 You already accused me of this and I DID correct your wrong views of my theology but, it seems that you would rather believe your falsehoods about me to make your self feel better.
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath We'll see who's talking when Jesus returns. U WILL confess Him all the way to the glory of God the Father.
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 I ALREADY confess Jesus as GOD and LORD of my my life to the glory of God the Father....
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath No u don't confess Jesus as "THE" Lord. That means "THE" Father. Only ONE rb...when it says "to the glory of God the Father." That means confessing Jesus all the way to being the Father. That means confessing God's manifestation in flesh.
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 NO scripture teaches that Jesus is the person of God THE Father
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath Ever read Isaiah 9:6? What about John 8:58? And John 14:9? U r greatly deceived like I said. U r looking for the wrong things in the bible. Ur condemnation is justified. U twist the scriptures unto ur own destruction just like Peter said u would. 2 Peter 3:16
swenmanwwjd12 6 days ago
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@rbmath Ever read Isaiah 9:6? What about John 8:58? And John 14:9? U r greatly deceived like I said. U r looking for the wrong things in the bible. Ur condemnation is justified. U twist the scriptures unto ur own destruction just like Peter said u would. 2 Peter 3:16
swenmanwwjd12 6 days ago
@rbmath Ever read Isaiah 9:6? What about John 8:58? And John 14:9? U r greatly deceived like I said. U r looking for the wrong things in the bible. Ur condemnation is justified. U twist the scriptures unto ur own destruction just like Peter said u would. 2 Peter 3:16
swenmanwwjd12 6 days ago
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@rbmath Ever read Isaiah 9:6? What about John 8:58? And John 14:9? U r greatly deceived like I said. U r looking for the wrong things in the bible. Ur condemnation is justified. U twist the scriptures unto ur own destruction just like Peter said u would. 2 Peter 3:16
swenmanwwjd12 6 days ago
@rbmath I can't believe that u cannot see how prideful u r. Hebrews 1:3 is a direct teaching of Jesus being the "person" of God the Father. How can u be so blind?
swenmanwwjd12 6 days ago
@swenmanwwjd12 Already showed you your error of Hebrews 1:3..
rbmath 6 days ago
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@swenmanwwjd12 Already showed you your error of Hebrews 1:3..
rbmath 6 days ago
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@swenmanwwjd12 Already showed you your error of Hebrews 1:3..
rbmath 6 days ago
@rbmath U need the truth preached unto u. These things r the truth and the bible says "How shall they hear without a preacher." Rom 10:14. U need the way of God "expounded unto u more "perfectly" just like Apollos did in Acts 18:26. U did not know these things they are hidden things and neither did I until God showed them to me just like it says in Is 48:6-8 but the difference is that scripture is directed towards u because I can declare Him as the Father and u won't declare it.
swenmanwwjd12 6 days ago
@rbmath Most importantly about Is 48:6-11 is that in verse 11 God reiterates Himself by saying He will not give His glory unto another, speaking directly to people like u who think God shares His glory with 2 other members. These verses are emphatically referring to u polytheists who will not declare Him as God (who is the Father). U r so dead.
swenmanwwjd12 6 days ago
@swenmanwwjd12 Is 48:6-11 .. Your views assume that my view of trinity is wrong and is really Tritheism. You have not honestly deal with the scriptures that I have posted the "WITH God" it does NOT say "WITH MYSELF"
rbmath 6 days ago
@rbmath The "WORD" means God's "Power" was with God. No one else. It's like it's saying, God has the power, He's the ONE. It's like the phrase what's the word man?" What u r really saying is what is the news? That's what it's like with God. God's "WORD" is His "Power" and God's "Power" is Jesus Christ and the good "news." The word God in it's broadest sense includes everything like the scripture says "we live and move and have our being in Him." How can we live in God if He is not vast?
swenmanwwjd12 6 days ago
@swenmanwwjd12 "WORD".. NO. Its G3056 logos a statement, a speech. It does NOT mean "Power". The Greek word is NOT, G1411 δύναμις dunamis, power, might, strength, John 1:1 PERSONALIZES the "WORD" and says the Word was WITH God and WAS God.
rbmath 5 days ago
@rbmath But if u speak of Him as a person than He is Jesus Christ. So do we "live and move and have our being in Jesus Christ?" Yes we do, in His "vastness." So in God's "vastness" and in His "mind" everything is included right down to the atmosphere we live in. John 1:1 is like John is addressing the question "Who has the "Power?" Who is the ONE with the "AUTHORITY?" Who has the "WORD?" The "FINAL SAY?" And he answers the question and lays it down and says God is the ONE.
swenmanwwjd12 6 days ago
@swenmanwwjd12 u speak... I can only says.. WOW 100% pure eisegesis..
rbmath 5 days ago
@rbmath So "Who should we listen to?" The answer is "GOD." Because the "WORD" is with Him and no one else. Now, when it says the "WORD" WAS GOD, now we can see that God is saying He is Jesus Christ.
swenmanwwjd12 6 days ago
@swenmanwwjd12 So... Again QUOTE THE FULL CONTEXT which denies your views. KJV John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH God, and the Word was God. :2 The same was in the beginning WITH God.
rbmath 5 days ago
@rbmath U must read bible with Spirit of God. First receive Spirit with stammering lips than u will be able to interpret what God is saying from His written word. Renounce polytheism and become a christian.
swenmanwwjd12 5 days ago
@swenmanwwjd12 . With all honestly. The more you say the more you make laugh than see how blind you are to the truth. I'm not the one who needs to reinterpret John 1:1 to suit my theology. I actually believe what it says
rbmath 5 days ago
@rbmath Is 28:12 Tongues is the refreshing and His rest. But just as the scripture says, "...yet they would not hear." U do not hear because u do not accept tongues. U have made precepts and rules about what a believer is to look like. So because of this u will go backward and be broken and snared just as the scripture says. U do not understand that where the Spirit of the Lord is there is freedom. Freedom to dance and cry and speak in tongues and surrender to the Lord.
swenmanwwjd12 4 days ago
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@swenmanwwjd12 The WORD who WAS God and WITH God became FLESH who at the Father's side. John1:1,14,18. The WORD did consider equality WITH God,Php 2:6 while The WORD had brightness of HIS glory,Heb 1:3. The WORD HAD God's glory WITH God BEFORE the world was. John 17:5. Everything was made by HIM the WORD, John 1:1-3. THESE do NOT say, as you falsely think , with ἐμαυτοῦ MYSELF , it says WITH θεός God.
rbmath 1 week ago
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@swenmanwwjd12 The WORD who WAS God and WITH God became FLESH who at the Father's side. John1:1,14,18. The WORD did consider equality WITH God,Php 2:6 while The WORD had brightness of HIS glory,Heb 1:3. The WORD HAD God's glory WITH God BEFORE the world was. John 17:5. Everything was made by HIM the WORD, John 1:1-3. THESE do NOT say, as you falsely think , with ἐμαυτοῦ MYSELF , it says WITH θεός God.
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath And unless u enter by Him u r a thief and a robber.
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@rbmath Even in heaven there is no one but Him.
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago
@swenmanwwjd12 RE:Persons.. THIS is what I have been trying to explain to you from the first post. You have a wrong understanding of how the words "Person and Being" are used in the trinity. You LIMIT their meaning to their MODERN USAGE without trying to understand how they were used in Trinitarian theology. Again You are understanding it in the MODERN tangible meaning. The word “Persons” in the trinity is to be understood as imageless, timeless, beginningless, uncaused relations. .
rbmath 1 week ago
@rbmath Keep dreaming
swenmanwwjd12 1 week ago