DEBATE: Romans 9:11-23, If God Loves Everybody Then Why Does He Send People to Hell Forever?

[Real777Truth]

Election is in scripture, human responsibility is in scripture. NO ONE on this thread will ever understand this and be able to say they fully have it figured out. We should just know that GOD ELECTION will never contradict MANS DECISION.

[CAnswersTV]

@Real777Truth Acts 2:23 says it well, "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel & foreknowledge of God , ye have taken, & by wicked hands have crucified & slain." Jesus' death with predestined (Isaiah 53) but the people involved still have "human responsibility" for their actions. God's ELECTION changes a MAN'S DECISION. Take Paul, for example, on the road to Damascus in Acts 9:1-18. God ELECTS Paul to be a Christian so Paul changes his mind about killing Christians & becomes one himself.

[CAnswersTV]

Jesus never fails EmeiBaguazhang that's why His elect will be saved from the coming wrath of God (1 Thessalonians 1:4) while the nonelect (Romans 1:26-28, 2:5) will be "LOST" to eternal damnation in the "LAKE OF FIRE" (Revelation 19:20, 20: 10,14-15, Rev. 14:9-11, etc). Jesus did not come to save everybody just as Noah's ark was not meant to save everybody from the flood (the WRATH OF GOD). Jesus chooses to save men who would be LOST if the Spirit of God did not make them "born again" (Jn 3).

[CAnswersTV]

It is apparent EmeiBaguazhang that you are too lazy to watch the entire 4 hour debate on this subject or the 6 hour series on presdestination or the 11 hour series on "Unpopular Bible Doctrines." Right there is 21 hours of Bible study for you but you say you must study the original language or "you will be lost"?! I've taken New Testament Greek & my associate James R. White of Alpha & Omega Ministries (check out his shows on Youtube as "Dr Oakley") has Greek & Hebrew. You're wrong as usual.

[CAnswersTV]

EmeiBaguazhang it's obvious from your comment here that you're definitely a 1 Corinthians 2:14 man & that you don't understand the laws of logic or a proper approach to Biblical hermeneutics either. You think that you can just become a Christian because you WANT to be or you were BORN that way? God says only a few are going to be saved from destruction (Matthew 7:13-29) & God Himself will send delusion to people so they will be damned (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12). God HATES the wicked (Ps 11:5).

[CAnswersTV]

Once again EmeiBaguazhang all this ALL MEN you're talking about is dealt with in the 4 hour debate as well as the 6 hour series on predestination on YAHOO VIDEO (search LARRY WESSELS on their homepage). Check out our 11 hour series "Unpopular Bible Doctrines" which also touches on this while you're on YAHOO VIDEO. Your arguments are groundless in light of the fact that God definitely does not intend to save "ALL mankind" (hell exists) since God does NOT LOVE everybody (Romans 9:13, Ps 5: 4-6).

[EmeiBaguazhang]

(Does God want ALL men to be saved??)

1Tim 2:4- God desires ALL to come to the knowledge of truth

(Is Gods Will ALWAYS done??)

Eph 1:11- God works ALL after the counsel of HIS WILL!

Is 46:10- God will do ALL HIS PLEASURE!!

Ps 135:6- God does what PLEASES HIM!!!

(Will Jesus Fail at doing ALL of what the Father wants or desires?)

Jn 8:29- Jesus ALWAYS does what pleases His Father!

AGAIN, deductive Logic DEMANDS that ALL be saved!!

[CAnswersTV]

EmeiBaguazhang it's obvious that you've not watched this entire 2 hour debate. All you have done is watch this one short 10 minute clip of the debate & then foster your erroneous conclusions (shall I say "nonsense", yes!) on the world with these misapplied verses. Deductive "logic" demands that you have committed the logical fallacy of "card stacking" meaning a deliberate selection of "evidence" that supports a statement while ignoring facts that don't. 1 Tim 2:4 is dealt with in this debate.

[CAnswersTV]

The point is simple to understand EmeiBaguazhang, namely, you're responding to a fraction of a 4 hour (not 2 hour as previously stated) theological debate which already answers much of the nonsense you are bringing up. Simply go to YAHOO VIDEO & search LARRY WESSELS on their homepage then look for the entire 4 hour debate. While you are there watch our 6 hour video series on the "Biblical Doctrine of Predestination." God predestinates a few to be saved from eternal damnation (Ephesians 1:11).

[CBALLEN]

@EmeiBaguazhang Jesus only lost one when speaking of His disciples and one was a devil,so the scripture would be fulfilled.Do devils also go to Heaven?Will Satan be in Heaven?Aren't the false prophet and the man of perdition cast into the Lake of Fire even without going to the judgment?Do you really believe that everyone will end up in Heaven?

[raphaelaaron]

Steve also forgets the fact that whosoever means those who will believe. If that's the case, John 6:44 is a strong obstacle for the arminian. Not everyone comes to Christ aka believes. But only those whom the Father has drawn aka elected.

[CAnswersTV]

Well said raphaelaaron. Arminians often refuse to see what is so plainly taught in scripture simply because their emotions take priority over straightforward Biblical doctrine.

[Paleolutheran]

It is interesting to me that "biblical" Christians will defend Genesis being literal, yet NOT use creation in redemption. Whither the incarnation? The fact remains that the readings and the numbers in the "presentation" ("debate" is a farce) have alternate readings and interpretations, and it is troubling that St. Paul is setting much of this discussion, rather than Paul THROUGH Christ and what He taught. I also find it funny a baptismal parable (wedding garment) is used in the above comments.

[CAnswersTV]

Thanks for your comment Paleolutheran. To reply, first I'd say that both debaters in this "Limited Atonement" debate were given an equal amount of time so the term "debate" is not a farce. Second, there is nothing wrong Biblically by quoting Paul since he himself said, "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord" (1 Corinthians 14:37). Matthew 22:11-14 shows the non-elect without garments.

[Paleolutheran]

My issue is not so much with quoting Paul, but using him to interpret Jesus accordingly. Much of this debate focuses on certain passages in Paul and theologically interpreting them within a paradigm with many assumptions, and then comes John 6. I'm just saying I think Protestants in this debate should be more careful, BOTH SIDES don't seem to take the whole of each Gospel they quote. I would like to see and comment on your Roman Catholic debates as well.

[CAnswersTV]

I appreciate intelligent feedback "Paleoluteran" & I find your comment here to be intelligently presented but I must take issue with your assumption that Paul is not a good source to interpret Jesus. I believe Paul is an excellent source to interpret Jesus & the Gospel (Galatians 1:6-9) if for no other reason than he was chosen by Jesus Himself (Acts 9), accepted by the other apostles (2 Peter 3:15-18), & Paul's writings make up 14 books of the 27 in the New Testament. Rome denies the Gospel.

[Paleolutheran]

Again, my issue is not that Paul is used, nor to deny that Paul is an apostle or that his writings are authoritative and God's Word, my issue is that as soon as we run into what Jesus says, we go to Paul. Shouldn't we look at Paul, and go to Jesus? Maybe this is where the issue lies. Jesus says my WORDS are spirit, yet they are physical...Paul uses spirit, and many think spirit is ethereal and treat it as such...though these comment boxes are bad for comments...can't go into much detail.

[CAnswersTV]

I agree with you Paleolutheran that these little Youtube boxes don't allow for much. I'd glad to see that you're agreeing with me that Paul is an authoritative source for all Biblical New Testament discussion. As you know from looking at our Youtube channel page & our 3 websites we spend a lot of time defending the Bible & the Christian faith from attacks from all fronts. The Word of God (whether it is Paul, Jesus, Isaiah, David, Moses, etc.) can be brought against error (2 Timothy 3:15-17).

[calvinismisacult]

The real question is why does the Calvinist God unconditionaly damn people and create them for the sole purpose of torturing themforever for simply doing what God decreed/caused them to do ?

[CAnswersTV]

Whoever you are calvinismisacult it's obvious that you don't know much about what the Bible teaches. Instead of proving your propositions with Biblical exegesis you instead make easily refutable comments not based in Scripture. Your comment here for example is already directly dealt with by the apostle Paul in Romans 9:11-23. Your comment is similar to the naysayer in Rom 9:19 & Paul answers in 9:20-23 saying God is the Potter & has the right to make people the way He wants. You insult God.

[CBALLEN]

@calvinismisacult you are someone who operates on pure emotion certainly not scripture.Why do you hate the God of the Bible?Why do you claim that the CALVINIST GOD IS EVIL?Does not your Bible contain Romans 9?Why do you hate the one true God's sovereignty?You just need to admit that you love an idol,one that man can control,not the true God who controls men. You like a God that you can tell what to do,as in,Get lost God I'll call you if and when I need you and don't forget God,you owe me.

[October31st1517]

Point 1: At 5:53 Steve freely admits that there are scriptures that show that there are individuals whom God hates. But instead of answering these he goes off into other scriptures that seem to indicate that God loves everybody. And Steve constantly does this. He REFUTES scripture with scripture, and does not compare.