I am really tired of this stupid war between French and English. Why can't everybody speak both languages to solve the problem? I'm bilingual (oui, je parle aussi français et c'est ma deuxième langue après l'italien) and I saw that many Quebecers speak English and many English speak French. I have worked in accounting and when calling in other provinces, all the messages were bilingual... How can the Quebecers say the English make fun of their culture? Racism belongs to the past!
It's racism to simply aknowledge that bilingualism in this country is a lure, a farce? I'm sorry but your answering machines are nowhere close to be representative of language knowledge in this country.
Outside Québec, only 12% of Canadians are functionally bilingual in both official languages.
You're talking as if you cannot do it anymore. What is stopping you? You'd enjoy Canada to be seen as ethnociders, wouldn't you? How great would that be for Canada's international image!
Please, scream your little racist hatred loud enough so a few more Québécois hear it. Might wake a few into considering secession.
I think CANADA should have its own referendum. We should have a say too. Maybe this time you'd actually get your wish. Im sure a lot of Hardworking Canadians are somewhat tired of this corrupt twilight zone co-dependant existential costly parallel parastic province we call Quebec. Maybe they are just waiting for us to make their minds up for them. I think Canada should have a vote. And it would be our duty to Vote YES for them. We are with you Quebec.!!!!
Warning, if you are skilled with professional degree, then don’t come to Quebec. Quebec lures you to come here to pay the bills while maaaany unqualified quebecors get professional jobs by experience, and you won’t find a job because you’re not French of Quebecor Origin. I lived here for 15 years and all my degrees are from Quebec with Masters in Engineering from University of Montreal and I spent 20 months unemployed. I am in Calgary & my salary is 93K/year, yet part of my taxes goes to quebec
I work in a Pharma Lab with Québécois born in other countries, from the Maghreb countries mostly. They outnumber those born in Québec and those are jobs that require at the very least a college degree.
Do you speak french? You didn't make it clear. If you don't, that is a problem in a province where the language is required, it IS a french province. I assume you do if you've been to l'UdeM.
Besides, you've gotten your education in Québec for nearly nothing, in the province where it is cheapest. Thank god you pay some taxes here, call that return on investment.
Les fédéralistes qui méritent qu'on les écoute ont au moins l'intelligence d'affirmer que "vive le Canada" n'est pas nécessairement contradictoire avec "vive le Québec".
"fuck quebec"... vraiment? J'ai le droit de me sentir viser sans raisons valables? Pourriez-vous dire la même chose d'une autre nation sans laisser transparaître un relent de racisme?
@tomyweekend I guess... doesn't this world require less nations rather than more? isn't time to start speaking of a united continent? primates fighting for painted chunks of tissue sounds so sad and prehistoric to me... avarice, divisive beliefs and territorial fight diminish the cognitive abilities of human beings. Isn't the time of having a new integrated educational system in all the continent? Can we start making more questions rather than asseverations?
Anything is showing it is time to speak of an united continent? Do you believe it to be a globalization tendency to reduce the amount of countries? There has been a constant increase of independant nations since, well forever and it more than tripled since ww2 I believe.
Minorities marginalised into majorities will fight for their "tissues" as you say, although you're probably not as likely to hear of it.
What you end up supporting is the marginalisation of smaller cultures leading to their eventual assimilation in the hope that would reduce tensions between groups... simply by reducing the amount of groups.
But what you end up hindering is the developement of the human race as a whole, its evolution. The ultimate utopia of your vision would be one world united, people all the same, an army of clones.
But the human race is where it's at right now because it is diversified. We don't think the same, we don't live the same way, do not even love the same things. This lead to exchanges between nations that ended up enriching them all. The smaller the amount of nations, the lesser the human race diversifies, the more its evolution is slowed down.
Every nation deserves to be protected, the best way to do it is give them their own states. Besides, Quebec is very social progressive, do we ever really have too many of those states?
And I'm hoping you are not using the EU as proof an independent Québec is contradictory to a current 'uniting' global movement. The EU besides the Euro dollar and a useless parliement, is little more than a trade agreement like the NAFTA.
@Vineon the future is to the opposite direction than the past. Every nation deserves to be destroyed including its flag. Nations and religions are divisive and use childhood indoctrination. It is a way of child abuse. Washing virgin innocent brains so they can grow and divide humanity, and with the cognitive ability altered consider themselves "different" when actually are sadly equalized and flattened. Past based societies are condemned, it is much healthier to have a future based humanity.
Exactly what I was fearing, an intransigeant supporter of extreme globalization. The kind that wants religion to disappear (and as much as I'd love to myself perhaps, it just wont), one shade of skin color through mixing, one language spoken.
I'll just say I'm not a supporter of anything that cannot realistically happen and your view is just thoughts wasted, it will remain perpertual conjectures.
I won't argued nations aren't divisive, I will argue that is not a bad thing but a good thing. Of course, there is excess but the idea is to not reach that point while keeping diversity alive.
I'm not sure if you've been watching the Olympics, but this is what a diversified world that works together looks like. I see good sport and respect between athletes and no tension.
@Vineon then, division within each nation is also positive and we need to increase the divisions. The idea of "Respect" sounds me like the one of "tolerance" which is nothing but "my group don't want to be the same than your group but we will respect you", in other words you don't have to tolerate those you consider the same. And we'll oppress the individuals that consider themselves equals to anybody else and use childhood indoctrination to poison their spirits so they can't never ever be free
If you agree divisions within a nation is a positive thing, your views get a little shaky, as the best way to protect those divisions is either through protectionnist laws or through secessions into different states. Other paths lead to marginalization of divisions and assimilation, there is a countless amount of precedent.
Let's have an example of a childhood indoctrination that poisoned a spirit and let's hear how that could ever be avoided in any world we could possibly live in.
Perhaps the day we'll be raised into tubes without parents until we're 30?
@Vineon the answer is YES. There is a new scientific revolution provided by the Information Technology, and the trend is keep all the diversity at its maximum level of granularity, which is "the individual level". Each individual a "nation" if you prefer or "need that word to live". But the fights of "groups" is really divisive and attempts against the ultimate individuality, washing brains and attacking other "groups". That model failed, and I will expect a little grandeur from each person.
I've heard someone debate that point not too long ago and frankly it is ridiculous to constantly reduce the sample until you reach "individuals" size.
Yes diversity exists amongst individuals, that is not something that can be argued, but theres also a set core of values shared by groups and those are the kinds that deserve protection.
One thing you definitely want to avoid, is extreme homogeinization, that would be an absolute disaster.
That is the path to a straight arrow evolution rather than a one being done in several branches. In short, a very less productive evolution, one very much slowed down.
Besides, it's frankly a "utopia" that could only be achieved through some violence as minorities aren't too keen on silently disappearing.
@Vienon we want the same but it appears that propose "almost" opposite paths. I asked some time ago, which reason can a bear have to attack a human? and somebody told me "we are both very territorial beasts". That is sad. I think groups can be dynamic not tight to an specific piece of land, look at youtube not the EU, not always the same individuals, able to mutate, combine with and nurture from others more quickly. Another world is possible. Yesterday's idealism is today's vulgarity.
Forget idealism and let's talk realism, pragmatism.
Tell me what you propose be done that can realistically be done.
This world was shaped by people who thought differently yet intertwined and exchanged ideas and ways of life. Evolution happened at much faster pace when they started exchanging, as opposed to kept isolated nations that didn't evolve as fast.
I don't think we want the same at all. What is it that we both want?
What you want is an end to all conflicts through an impossible to achieve without violence complete homogeinization. Moreover, I have a feeling this is a view your developped that's symptomatic of being part of the current dominant social-cultural group, the one currently assimilating rather than being assimilated. In short, you have no concession to make. Would you hold the same speech if you weren't? I'm not convinced.
@Vineon actually YES. I'm from latin america (LA) and I could not say we are a very... "winning dominant culture" and in fact talk about "win and lose" is taboo in LA and it's not well seen. L'hispanité is not imperialist today. I'm an immigrant in Quebec, I think the "loi 101" is correct, and it appears I can surprise you even more. It is clear that you have developed a repulsive instinct against certain "dominant groups". It sounds like bush, "they are with us or against us" :O
Oh, I will make the corelation that someone openly against our language legislations and against Québec sovereignty is either welcoming our cultural marginalisation or is simply ignorant. So yeah, pretty much "against us", or at least "against me". However, it is perfectly defendable to believe this might be whats best for Québec and I can respect that. I will certainly never adhere to it however as I don't personally believe it is at all.
@Vineon Tout le monde m'a dit la même chose au sujet de la facilité pour les hispanophones. Mais je ne suis bon pour les langues. J'ai appris l'anglais il y a 5 ans. Dans l'Argentine j'ai étudié le français dans l'école secondaire. Quand même l'invasion de les États Unis dans l'amerique latin a été aussi profonde. Il me reste 5 ans jusqu'a pouvoir débattre en français dans YouTube.
@Vineon who is culturally marginalized? who is against the language legislation? you? Because I said, if you read, that it is a good thing, and I think Quebec is a model to follow for latin america in "that particular" aspect. Even if with 350 millions of native speakers the Spanish is not at risk, and any spanish guy will initially hate England with or without reason. We were invaded but we refused them. Anyway they helped to cut the links with Spain to gain control lately by market "laws".
There is quite a lot of people against language legislation, you must not read the papers of the RoC much. I'm glad you think highly of Bill 101 but the thing generally gets pretty terrible press.
That's why I think the strategy of Quebec "can" be expansionist and influence Latin America to follow that steps, blocking the British empire in all the fronts is at least funny LOL. It is still true that immigrants are usually driven from fears, and "english" sounds like more "secure" due to marketing, that's why I think the law 101 is needed to avoid that due to fear people commit an stupidity.
Which is one of being against something without knowing anything about it.
You've said one thing so far "sovereignists can only scream and insult". If you believe that it is all there's ever been from their side of the ideological spectrum, you clearly never had the intention to really argue.
All I'm asking, is for you to come up with something better. Actually, simply to come up with something.
"attempt something better than "separatists will just scream and insult" as a way out of an exchange."
OK, no problem. Let me try to attempt something.
Separatists just scream and insult. Because they feel powerless and angry. Because all non-Francophones and many Francophones don't buy their crap. Because they have no arguments other than an idea of a nation to back up their claims. Because they can't draw a wider audience.
I've neither screamed nor insulted. I feel neither powerless nor angry.
I've asked you to come with something and you came with nothing. The irony is having you pretend sovereignists have no argument, when you've brought none yourself.
This is a constancy amongst federalists, this claim sovereignists can't defend their standpoint... just don't ask a federalist to do the same.
I've spent my last few posts trying to argue, you haven't done that. You have nothing to say.
If from the get-go people like you believe the concepts of identity, cultural preservation and nation aren't worthy arguments, theres a clear misunderstanding of ethnology here.
Most take the other route however, because the first is undefendable. That other route being trying to prove Québec isn't financially viable, or internationally legit. That was where I was hoping you'd go.
I meant in the middle of this debate with your narrow-minded views.
Considering you didn't care to make a proper retort, I'll just assume you took my advise (leaving this argument). If you want to pretend you've stayed however, you can attempt something better than "separatists will just scream and insult" as a way out of an exchange.
I have never met people as self-righteous, self-indulgent, self-entitled, melodramatic and yet so insecure as Quebec nationalists.
There is no talking to these people really. They will just scream and insult. We just have to live with this noisy bunch, but I think (and hope) that not for too long. The new generation of kids growing up in Quebec right now will have no reason to hate Canada. So maybe this separatist/nationalist nonsense will soon disappear from our province.
"There is no talking to these people really. They will just scream and insult."
He was talking to me and I have neither screamed nor insulted anyone. If this is what your crass categorization brings to the table, nobody needs you here.
Again, Québec sovereignism is not fueled on hatred for Canada. I was born in Ontario but entirely raised in Québec. However half of my family still lives there and to this I add my many Canadian friends. I love Canada, I wish the best for it.
As far as preserving differences, what are we talking about here? Look at what the youth of Quebec is watching on TV, listen to their music, it's all American ifluenced!
Ask any girl about lady gaga and they will give you her biography. Ask any boy about a rap artist, and they'll do the same.
The whole world hates the U.S. but they all like whatever comes from it. Be it music, fashion, culture, food. Enough said, I'm right!
"Look at what the youth of Quebec is watching on TV, listen to their music, it's all American ifluenced!"
Certainly not denying Americanisation! It is still not on the same level as it is in Canada. Québec's distinction after all, is that of being a mix of North America and Europe to most.
For example, in Québec, the top 15 most watched tv shows are Québec products. In Canada, the top 15 most watched tv productions are American productions.
The fedaral lands will be off premise. Hence, it would reduce the size of the existing borders. Don't tell me that all the land belongs to you. You also have the first nations, you actually think that they will give everything over to you? You guys cannot even begin to control them, please! You people have a collapsing infrustructure that you cannot yet fix. In 1976, you dumbasses were planning on blowing up bridges so that the army would not invade, and people would stay!
Managing your own destiny? That is a joke! With what funds? Your government taxes the hell out of its people, crucifies any company that plans to invest in Quebec. Hydro Quebec? Ubisoft? Who else is there...... Goodyear closed, GM closed and it wasn't because Firebirds/Camaros weren't selling. Ask your government officials why they have the choice to educate their children where they want and what gives them that right!
Better question, what will be left if separation is achieved?
"crucifies any company that plans to invest in Quebec."
Québec is known to be very lenient when it comes to taxing corporations. They also get very interesting energy deals. Because your list included HQ, a public institution and Ubisoft, hilariously the only actual (foreign) company you could mention, I'm not sure if I should even actually bother reply.
Québec's mining sector is amongst the worlds top 10. Bombardier alone is 3rd world producer of airplanes and first of trains. Our aerospace resume is very impressive, to Bombardier we add others like Pratt and Whitney. SNC Lavalin is one of the top engineering firms in the world.
Québécor is a multimedia monster not crumbling under debts like most of them today, they also own an impressive array of assets all through Canada.
Québec is a leader in the pharmaceutical industry and still an important producer of lumber/paper although that is declining due to a lower demand.
It is also a leader in the developement of softwares and bio technologies. It is by far the state in NA that is the least dependant on oil and its water reserves had some call it "the saudi arabia of water".
Partition is not only illegal by our current own Canadian Laws but also by international laws. If you don't believe that, ask the russians in Ukraine, or the Serbians in Kosovo. The entire Québec territory belongs to it.
You will need to elaborate on the First Nations because it is clear you know nothing whatsoever about them. First off, Québec, has 8% of their Canadian population, they live mostly in Ontario and the western provinces.
Secondly, they revendicate an enormous amount of Canadian territory, for example something like 75% of BC. Unlike you, Canada probably realizes the can of worms it would be opening by offering the Québec First Nations more than Québec could offer them. Because of it, Québec should be advantaged in the next round of negotiation with them.
In the late 90s, la Paix des Braves was signed with the Crees, along with similar treaties with other nations (ex : inuits).
In 2003, Ted Moses, then leader of the Cree, endorsed the sovereignist provincial party, le Parti Québécois.
What you do is what Canadians always do, take the First Nations for granted. They owe no allegiance whatsoever to Québec but neither to Canada, remember that. They owe allegiance to themselves and Québec is better equipped to make them a better offer.
As for not "controlling them", sorry, but us Québécois, unlike you anglos, dont feel we should control them at all. We aren't the ones that put them on reserves, we aren't the ones that forced assimilation on them, they were for the first time schooled in their native tongue when Québec took over their education from Ottawa. If you missed it, the federal government just recently made a formal apology to the First Nations for that.
Nobody asked you to change your name or culture. Refering to my comment that Quebec is surrounded by the English language, which Separatists fail to realize, English is the language of business.
I am originally from a European nation, have been educated in 3 languages, have resided in Montreal, Toronto, Orlando, Tampa, Detroit/Windsor, Chicago. Two of my children are fluent in the following: English, French, Spanish, Latin, Greek and German. Can any one of you do that??!!??
Reading that souvereignists fail to realize Québec is surrounded by english is probably the more ridiculous thing I've read today.
It is this very fact that convinces most sovereignists they need and deserve a state, partly to insure their perpetuity in such an uncomfortable situation.
Nobody denies english is the language of business either.
Because your list includes latin which means immersion was impossible, I will take the liberty not to believe your claim.
Not only that, but your elected officials, and/or your stupid bills which you supported, do not even allow you to educate your kids or yourselves to the schools of your choice.
To the west, there's English, to the south and east, English. What are you morons thinking?
Even if you do achieve separation, what exactly did you idiots accomplish? Shit!!!
"To the west, there's English, to the south and east, English. What are you morons thinking?"
Certainly not that we too, should be english. An english Québec is nothing, just like Canada, it would be simply a northern cultural appendice of the United States. Without color or flavor, the same.
Québec thrives on being itself, being different. We aim to preserve these differences. You can hate us for it, we sure don't give a fuck.
Face it, idiots, you will all die off one day and you will have accomplished absolutely nothing! You all try to alter historical facts, your own government keeps you in the dark, so that you line their pockets yet have yours empty. You have held power for how long now and nothing but nothing has improved in Quebec, be it from industry to infrustructure. Money that has been given from Ottawa has either been embezeled or wasted on your pathetic language police. Wake the f#@k up!!!!
The "language police" spends very little money. As much as you want to believe there are patrols of them everywhere, it consists about 3 clerks working based on complaints from citizens only.
You don't know anything, you are not in any position to tell anyone to "wake up". In fact, it is you that should.
Ne t'avises même pas à croire pouvoir parler pour les autres.
Il se trouve que le Québec possède sa nationalité propre et qui tu y vis. Tu profites probablement de certain de ces aspects autant que tu rejètes ce que tu préfères ailleurs.
Je trouve intéressant que nation québécois soit entre guillemets. S'il y a véritablement une nation Canadienne, c'est bien celle-là qui est plus difficile à définir si l'on accepte pas un parallèle direct avec la nation américaine.
Joel Garreau (un Américain, il est important de le souligner) disait dans son livre 'Nine Nations of America", dans lequel il fait le découpement de la société nord-américaine en nations propres, disait du Québec que des neuf nations, celle ci était la plus improbable mais la plus indéniable des nations.
Tes guillemets, tu peux vraiment te les foutre dans le cul.
"Avec ce refus vient les conséquences de ne pas profiter des droits associés aux citoyens."
Je me'en fous des droits des citoyens. Je ne vote jamais quand meme au Quebec, et je ne participe pas à la vie politique. Je serais complètement à l'aise d'habiter ici comme un "expat", ou un "visiteur permanent".
"Now if Québec could bring back from the death its Québec citizenship project"
I lived in Quebec most of my life. I speak French on daily basis and function in the Quebecois society as if I was born here. Still, I would refuse Quebec citizenship if I was offered one. I want to live here as a Canadian, and will do so even if Quebec manages to separate one day.
"Still, I would refuse Quebec citizenship if I was offered one."
Avec ce refus vient les conséquences de ne pas profiter des droits associés aux citoyens.
La même rengaine, un certificat de citoyenneté est valable au Canada, l'est tout autant pour la majorité des nations mais ne le serait pas pour la nation Québécoise.
"They will be taught in french and Québec's goal is to acclimate them to Québec society"
I was taught in French as were most of my allophone friends. Today, all of us find Quebec nationalism repulsive. As we did back in high school.
You can teach us French, that's fine, it's another language on our CV. But don't think you can brainwash us with this separatist nonsense that easily.
Serait-il trop vous demander d'élaborer sur ce supposé "nonsense" dont vous parlez?
En français si possible, puisque vous le parlez.
Allez-vous prétendre que votre éducation en français ne vous a pas adapté à la vie au Québec, nation francophone? N'était-ce pas là mon argument?
Si le but visé était de faire de chaque nouvel arrivant un "séparatiste", les politiques linguistiques auraient, j'ose le croire, était rayés de la carte par nos partis fédéralistes provinciaux.
You are repeating exactly what I said, immigrants don't feel they should take this gamble after making the effort to come here.
Your other post is attempted vomit through categorization; something I've never said. I have certainly never claimed Canada isn't a great country, I constantly argue it is.
It is Canada they moved to and they quickly take advantage of it's great 'niveau de vie'.
It would be ridiculous to launch into the unknown by backing a Québec independance movement, of a nation they aren't even accustommed with.
Now if Québec could bring back from the death its Québec citizenship project, that would be a good step in the right direction to put emphasis on its cultural distinction. It should be known the nation they join is the Québec nation.
"Nobody will want to risk a (possible) economic and political backlash if things are good. "
That's the new immigrants. Their children are everyone's fair game. They will be taught in french and Québec's goal is to acclimate them to Québec society, to Québec culture.
From there, they will look into things with more perspectives than their parents.
Of course you will now start on how Canada isnt so good, and the need for change, etcIve heard it all before.
You would have a much easier task if Quebec was a part of the USSR. Unfortunately, youre a part of Canada. And a lot of people in QC like it here (myself included).
While Québec controls a major part of its immigration, Canada does the promotion
It is more complex than that. Im an immigrant and lived in QC most of my life, and I can tell you why you will never be able to attract a lot of immigrants to your side: Canada, while not perfect, is simply too good a country. Nobody will want to risk a (possible) economic and political backlash if things are good.
As for a need for change, it depends on what the Québécois accept happen. The safe option of staying in Canada has a price: an eventual maginalization of the Québec society, a near fatality.
Or it can take the gutsy approach and believe it can do what everybody else appears able to do: give itself a state, a place on a world map and the tools to do its own promotion and auto-manage itself. A stateless nation isn't bound to stay around much longer.
It's funny how the federal government doesn't even have to exert itself to convince people to vote against Quebec's nationalistic initiatives. All it has to do is to hand out citizenship certificates.
"All it has to do is to hand out citizenship certificates."
Naturally so.
While Québec controls a major part of its immigration, Canada does the promotion. Those immigrants were just granted CANADIAN citizenship, after having been chosen from the many waiting in line to get in the country.
Moreover, to many of them, such a secession is synonymous with revolution and violence... it certainly isn't a reality surrounding the unity question in Québec/Canada.
It is perfectly understable that new immigrants would vote against Québec sovereignty and Canada massively abused it.
It's up to you how you go about it. You can do it right, or you can railroad it. If you do the latter, don't expect people to pay too much attention to your new political entity you would call an independent state. Nobody will pay the slightest attention to you.
Youre not listening to me, mate. I said something beyond the margin of error, not 60%. It's in your interest to make it as clean as possible.
The question should reflect your true intentions. Don't snow people with partnerships and agreements. These things are a given. You're deflecting from the main issue. Do you want Quebec to be an independent country? Yes/No. Man up. Pose cette question et on y va.
1) A clear question it was, everybody knew what they were voting for that day.
2) clear majority : 50%+1, the way democracy always worked. You don't get to redefine democracy so it fits your objectives, the way the Clarity Bill does.
3) Agreed, this should be done (and the whole referendum should be organised) by an international commitee.
"The crap you tried to pull in 1995 cannot happen again."
Uh????? Like the sponsorship scandal? Going several times overbudget?
Like immigrants flowing in abnormal numbers (only time ever Québec had more immigrants getting citizenship within a year than Ontario did), getting their citizenship several months (years!) sooner?
Like people voting when they shouldn't have been able to? I believe a number beyond what was the difference in 95 between the yes and no vote?
You want Quebec to be an independent state. Thats the issue at stake. Man up and ask a direct question. Grow balls. Dont beat around the bush. Dont sugarcoat.
It wants the question to be as brutal as it can be
Obviously.
would still have the right to call it unclear
No, they wouldnt. Asking it like that would be fair game. Do you want Quebec to be an independent state? Yes/No. Lets see how it plays out.
And whatever happens, whatever the question asked, this is a given. The question is simply how this partnership will be defined. For example, there is very little reason not to immediately include Québec in the NAFTA.
"Do you agree that Québec should become sovereign after having made a formal offer to Canada for a new economic and political partnership within the scope of the bill respecting the future of Québec and of the agreement signed on June 12, 1995?"
What is all that nonsense after "Do you agree that Québec should become sovereign" part? Parizeu wanted to secede unilateraly the next day. You know and I know that the question was meant to confuse. Hence the Clarity Act initiative afterwards.
The Clarity Act, quite a wonderful piece of work that laughs in the face of democracy redefining a majority, isn't worth a penny.
It wants the question to be as brutal as it can be, which makes impossible any sort of implication Québec still wants Canada as a partner, which is only natural. Clear complete independence doesn't even exist.
That passage of the Clarity Bill is a 2nd protection.... should Québec get its 60% in favour of a secession, they will always be allowed to pretend the question wasn't valid, invalidating the result.... Canada gets to bend the rules the way they see fit to make sure the "impossible" never happens.
Facts remain there wasn't a soul that didn't know what he was voting for that day. The turnout was around the 95% if I remember well, which is insane.
Under the Clarity act, if the question were : do you agree Québec should secede from Canada and become sovereign, they would still have the right to call it unclear, saying the question didn't imply how this would be done.
They never defined what "clear" means and they certainly don't plan to, that would be giving away their hidden ace.
Secede first and then worry about Quebec being partitioned. As it is, you can't even get a majority to follow you into a disaster that an independent Quebec would be. You can't even get 50%+ on a convoluted tricky question. And if it ever happens, be ready to deal with the only metropolis within your new "country" being 90% loyal to Canada. A Trojan Horse in the heart of your "nation", I'd say,
"As it is, you can't even get a majority to follow you into a disaster that an independent Quebec would be."
I'd say 49.4% in 95, the last time it was asked is close enough to believe it may happen eventually.
Under very little basis could you claim an independant Québec is a train wreck waiting to happen. If you persist on saying it, at the very least explain why that is.
The best countries to live in according to the UN are demographically, geographically and socially identical to Québec.
"And if it ever happens, be ready to deal with the only metropolis within your new "country" being 90% loyal to Canada."
Congratulations, you understand nothing of Montréal's demographics. While it has a majority of people disapproving independance, it is certainly NOT 90%. Moreover Montréal's crown voted for independance back in 95 as did the east island (who are likely the most pro-sovereignty people in the province).
If we go by international laws, a newly seceded territory cannot be partitionned. A Kosovo secession went with a northern serbian population that had to go with it. Same with the many russian minorities in eastern europe countries after the collapse of the ussr.
I'm also sure you've heard of what happened in Georgia last year. Your own country doesn't recognize South Ossetia's secession neither does it recognize the Serbians in Kosovo the right to remain in Serbia.
I wasn't born in Québec although its forever been my home. Racism is not more prohiminent here than anywhere else, which statistics show clearly.
I live around and also work with plenty of people coming from different part of the globe. Racism exists but is marginalised. Québec IS probably the most progressive and tolerant part of North America.
if you will remember 10000 years that 200 years ago they were calling you frogs and whatever you will never be happy...I hate the racists wherever they might be..I am in quebec, I want everybody to be free to choose it's language of instruction...en ce moment-là je parlerais seulement, exclusivement la langue française.
Tu as totalement le droit de choisir ta langue d'instruction au niveau collégial en montant. Tout le monde y a droit.
Avant ça, le français est obligatoire, autant que l'anglais langue seconde. Ce protectionnisme linguistiques est nécessaire pour une nation de 7+ millions entourée d'une autre, dominante, de 330 millions.
Le Québec reste le village d'Astérix dans un sens. Ce protectionnisme est notre 'potion magique'.
D'ailleurs, si tes parents ont choisi le Québec, ils t'ont choisi une éducation française. Point final, si ça leur pose problème, c'est quelque chose qu'il fallait considérer avant. Personne ne force qui que se soit à s'installer au Québec.
Ensuite, plus tard, avec une maturité grandissante, le choix s'ouvre à une éducation complète en anglais si c'est ton désir.
in the case quebec will play the independence game i am confident that the rest of canada will welcome the areas where the population is, in majority, against the separation. it will be a pity, though
But the partition of Canada is fine. Someone arbirtarily decided that Canada is divisible and Quebec is not. Very convinient. But if Quebec is allowed to hold a referendum, so should Montreal. And if the result of the Quebec referendum is to be respected, so should be the result of the Montreal referendum. And Montreal will vote to stay withnin Canada. So bonne chance, separatistes.
If we go by international laws, a newly seceded territory cannot be partitionned. A Kosovo secession that seceded went with a northern serbian population that had to go with it. Same thing with the many russians minorities in eastern europe countries after the collapse of the ussr. I'm sure you've heard of what happened in Georgia last year.
What is conveniant is the belief that Québec needs a majority of its citizens to agree to secede to do it and that it should accept at the same time that it can then be partitionned depending on Canada's will.
It is senseless hypocrisy. Canada thus would impose to Québécois the partitionist votes to secede, whom could then still not secede along with it.
There are also profound distinctions between English Canadians living in Québec and the Québécois. The English Canadians represent a minority within no set territory. They don't pretend to be a nation of their own, they cannot even claims to be, they can only claim to be Canadians, like russians living in ukraine could before they were made Ukrainians.
It would probably take a few decades for English Quebecers to gain the same legitimacy to secede or join Canada back. As of now, they have no government and no national identity of their own. They can consider themselves to be Canadians away from Canada all they want : Québec sovereignists don't pretend to be French away from France, they consider themselves Québécois.
we will not leave quebec anyway..it will be cowardness...we have to change this place...you transformed it too...now, the new immigrants will do their part in making it a better place.
all i hear from you is name calling. does this gain respect for you in your circles? do you have anything intelligent to say? or do you revel in your ability to be dull and pointless?
and since when did you become spokeman for Quebec? you sound like your afraid of speaking out and losing your "good" english friends, LOL!
read a book, engage people in conversations to learn how it's done. then you can return and make valuable points instead of calling people names, LOL!
Pardonne-moi mon Alain mais si tu as essayé d'être objectif dans ton vidéo tu ne l'es point. Ne pas dire certains instants de l'histoire: c'est l'effacer et effacer l'histoire du Québec c'est immoral et ignoble. Et si tu as simplement mit dans ton vidéo les bout de l'histoire que tu connais, alors tu connais trop mal notre histoire.
Pas du tout, jai écrit ça vite car j'étais outré. Tu as PARFAITEMENT raison! J'aurais du écrire mon opinion de façon totalement différente. Sur ce, si l'auteur le veut bien je lui expliquerai que son travail est incomplet.
Il est immoral de trafiquer l'histoire d'un peuple en la diluant de son intégralité car ça l'a à long terme des répercutions dévasteuses sur un peuple. Toutefois, je ne vois point pourquoi tu ne répettes ça, j'ai déjà dit que mon propos étaient injustes et précipités. Que les écrire sans recul était une erreur. Que gagnes-tu à m'entendre le dire par deux fois?
Ton commentaire dit "précipité" tu le répètes et renouvelles dans chacun de tes nouveaux.
Des accusations de trafriquage doivent s'accompagnées de ce qui à été trafiqué, la preuve quoi. Si le vidéo n'est pas complet, tu le complètes, tu dénotes les grands événements manquants, tout en respectant le thème (ici 'nation in motion') démontrant que tu comprends le contexte.
On s'attaque au contenu dans les règles de l'art ou on ne le fais pas.
Voyons donc, il y a deux possibilité ici: L'auteur à apprit la version de l'histoire qu'il enseigne à l'Université Laval et donc, dans la Capitale-Nationale et ne sait point qu'il à fait une erreur majeure et lorsqu'il sera intéressé à la savoir, il se manifestera. L'autre possibilité est qu'il le sait fort bien qu'il nuit à notre nation et s'en calice profondemment. Et tu remarqueras que je ne compte point enlever ce discour de mes écrits. Aussi:
Je n'aurais certainement point dû présenter ce commentaire à tous dans la mesure du doute. Mais je n'ai pas à écrire les justifications sous l'unique prétexte d'ordre de conduite. Je donnerai les expliquations à qui sera intéressé à les connaitre et non par devoir, oublication et respect.
what english Canadians really fear the most is Quebec forming close ties with Americans because Quebec has more water and hydro electric power that any nation on the planet! this would push the rest of Canada back to a secondary position in North American politics.
if you want to get on with your life, then do so, and stop crying about the French people - who don't even know that you exist! and why is there such concern over world opinion? what has that got to do with anything. if i listened to the opinions of strangers, i would become a stranger to myself! LOL!
the english are really the illigitimate descendents of german tribal conquerors and viking raider pirates. bastard spawn who have raced through the world like a plague, murdering all who stand in the way of their manic masonic agenda.
what about the Normans? they invaded england, conquered it in 1066, and created all english laws and customs after those of the French people. you sound like someone who just opened a history book for the first time, searched the index for France and jotted down a bunch of elementary historical facts. but you forgot about having a point. you're dull AND pointless. as for your sexual fantasy, well, your statement came from your own sub-conscious, not mine. it's called psychological projection.
the KKK in reverse is the KKK. the KKK were a racist anglo masonic sect of the southern U.S. who wore hoods and killed black americans and harrassed french acadians (cajuns). you should not make these comparisons lightly. you are not black. just because i speak the truth out loud does not make me evil. you can call me out all you want, but you have not contributed anything real to the discussion - just name calling.
i lived on the west coast for 8 years. i assure you that i know the truth about vancouver and the island. they don't like french at all. and they hate french people. my own father was threatened on the train when he came out to visit me. i can't recall more than one person from Quebec out there. they just don't like you if you're french. so don't lie to me, eh?
oh, my little name caller, you've adapted the policies of the weak kneed liberal politically correct condescending english supremist. you still have no valid point. what is your point? you like Quebec when they obey, but not when they speak up?
I don't want this tribal clash to turn into Yugoslavia pal, I want peace between the two, Perhaps even friendship.
If someone runs at you with a knife, Defend yourself!
If a troll on youtube posts garbage you tell them to fuck off or ignore them all together! You don't begin imitating them!
"The best revenge is to be unlike him who performed the injury, Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears". Marcus Aurelius- Emperor of Rome~
I got to admit, I error'ed in how I first approached you when I started this conversation.
I only read through half the posts on this video, I did not know the full context of how your little flame war started, I do now.
The English are not your enemy, Even if a vocal fringe of English wish to make it look that way, I'll even admit that I think allot of red necks live on the west coast, I wouldn't pit them all in that narrow category.
I am really tired of this stupid war between French and English. Why can't everybody speak both languages to solve the problem? I'm bilingual (oui, je parle aussi français et c'est ma deuxième langue après l'italien) and I saw that many Quebecers speak English and many English speak French. I have worked in accounting and when calling in other provinces, all the messages were bilingual... How can the Quebecers say the English make fun of their culture? Racism belongs to the past!
kendykaramel 9 months ago
@kendykaramel
It's racism to simply aknowledge that bilingualism in this country is a lure, a farce? I'm sorry but your answering machines are nowhere close to be representative of language knowledge in this country.
Outside Québec, only 12% of Canadians are functionally bilingual in both official languages.
Vineon 9 months ago
We should of put the french to the sword when we had the fucking chance.....
TheGreatestHater666 10 months ago
@TheGreatestHater666
You're talking as if you cannot do it anymore. What is stopping you? You'd enjoy Canada to be seen as ethnociders, wouldn't you? How great would that be for Canada's international image!
Please, scream your little racist hatred loud enough so a few more Québécois hear it. Might wake a few into considering secession.
Vineon 10 months ago
I think CANADA should have its own referendum. We should have a say too. Maybe this time you'd actually get your wish. Im sure a lot of Hardworking Canadians are somewhat tired of this corrupt twilight zone co-dependant existential costly parallel parastic province we call Quebec. Maybe they are just waiting for us to make their minds up for them. I think Canada should have a vote. And it would be our duty to Vote YES for them. We are with you Quebec.!!!!
Prmtl23 1 year ago
@Prmtl23
If anything that might wake up the Québécois into realizing just how much "appreciated" they are and bolster the sovereignty movement.
I'm all for the initiative.
Vineon 1 year ago
Warning, if you are skilled with professional degree, then don’t come to Quebec. Quebec lures you to come here to pay the bills while maaaany unqualified quebecors get professional jobs by experience, and you won’t find a job because you’re not French of Quebecor Origin. I lived here for 15 years and all my degrees are from Quebec with Masters in Engineering from University of Montreal and I spent 20 months unemployed. I am in Calgary & my salary is 93K/year, yet part of my taxes goes to quebec
OuiPourReferendum 1 year ago
@OuiPourReferendum
I work in a Pharma Lab with Québécois born in other countries, from the Maghreb countries mostly. They outnumber those born in Québec and those are jobs that require at the very least a college degree.
Do you speak french? You didn't make it clear. If you don't, that is a problem in a province where the language is required, it IS a french province. I assume you do if you've been to l'UdeM.
Vineon 1 year ago
@OuiPourReferendum
Besides, you've gotten your education in Québec for nearly nothing, in the province where it is cheapest. Thank god you pay some taxes here, call that return on investment.
Vineon 1 year ago
Naw... we shoudletn spilt atleast not yet >;]
Kizuishaskittle 1 year ago
Intéressant!
RICPOIRIER1 1 year ago
I am not "canadian", I am Quebecois. Fuck the anglos.
SuddenCatharsis 2 years ago 2
@SuddenCatharsis dit-il en anglais, haha. Vive le Québec Libre.
Yomen38 1 year ago
@SuddenCatharsis vive le canada!!! fuck quebec
jennifer171986 1 year ago
@jennifer171986
Les fédéralistes qui méritent qu'on les écoute ont au moins l'intelligence d'affirmer que "vive le Canada" n'est pas nécessairement contradictoire avec "vive le Québec".
"fuck quebec"... vraiment? J'ai le droit de me sentir viser sans raisons valables? Pourriez-vous dire la même chose d'une autre nation sans laisser transparaître un relent de racisme?
Vineon 1 year ago
we love Québécois Nation!!!
Québécois Nation should be independent
tomyweekend 2 years ago 13
@tomyweekend I guess... doesn't this world require less nations rather than more? isn't time to start speaking of a united continent? primates fighting for painted chunks of tissue sounds so sad and prehistoric to me... avarice, divisive beliefs and territorial fight diminish the cognitive abilities of human beings. Isn't the time of having a new integrated educational system in all the continent? Can we start making more questions rather than asseverations?
neoflyboy 2 years ago
Anything is showing it is time to speak of an united continent? Do you believe it to be a globalization tendency to reduce the amount of countries? There has been a constant increase of independant nations since, well forever and it more than tripled since ww2 I believe.
Minorities marginalised into majorities will fight for their "tissues" as you say, although you're probably not as likely to hear of it.
Vineon 2 years ago
What you end up supporting is the marginalisation of smaller cultures leading to their eventual assimilation in the hope that would reduce tensions between groups... simply by reducing the amount of groups.
But what you end up hindering is the developement of the human race as a whole, its evolution. The ultimate utopia of your vision would be one world united, people all the same, an army of clones.
Vineon 2 years ago
But the human race is where it's at right now because it is diversified. We don't think the same, we don't live the same way, do not even love the same things. This lead to exchanges between nations that ended up enriching them all. The smaller the amount of nations, the lesser the human race diversifies, the more its evolution is slowed down.
Vineon 2 years ago
Every nation deserves to be protected, the best way to do it is give them their own states. Besides, Quebec is very social progressive, do we ever really have too many of those states?
And I'm hoping you are not using the EU as proof an independent Québec is contradictory to a current 'uniting' global movement. The EU besides the Euro dollar and a useless parliement, is little more than a trade agreement like the NAFTA.
Vineon 2 years ago
@Vineon the future is to the opposite direction than the past. Every nation deserves to be destroyed including its flag. Nations and religions are divisive and use childhood indoctrination. It is a way of child abuse. Washing virgin innocent brains so they can grow and divide humanity, and with the cognitive ability altered consider themselves "different" when actually are sadly equalized and flattened. Past based societies are condemned, it is much healthier to have a future based humanity.
neoflyboy 2 years ago
Oh lord.
Exactly what I was fearing, an intransigeant supporter of extreme globalization. The kind that wants religion to disappear (and as much as I'd love to myself perhaps, it just wont), one shade of skin color through mixing, one language spoken.
I'll just say I'm not a supporter of anything that cannot realistically happen and your view is just thoughts wasted, it will remain perpertual conjectures.
Vineon 2 years ago
I won't argued nations aren't divisive, I will argue that is not a bad thing but a good thing. Of course, there is excess but the idea is to not reach that point while keeping diversity alive.
I'm not sure if you've been watching the Olympics, but this is what a diversified world that works together looks like. I see good sport and respect between athletes and no tension.
Vineon 2 years ago
@Vineon then, division within each nation is also positive and we need to increase the divisions. The idea of "Respect" sounds me like the one of "tolerance" which is nothing but "my group don't want to be the same than your group but we will respect you", in other words you don't have to tolerate those you consider the same. And we'll oppress the individuals that consider themselves equals to anybody else and use childhood indoctrination to poison their spirits so they can't never ever be free
neoflyboy 2 years ago
Tolerance sounds to me like an effort needs to be made. Respect doesn't demand that effort.
I do not "tolerate" other views, I respect them.... or in some extreme cases, just not respect them at all.
In the same vein, in cases where my views are conflictual, I do not want them to be tolerated, that is hypocrisy. I want them to be respected.
Would there be no people with different views, I wouldn't a base of comparison.
Vineon 2 years ago
If you agree divisions within a nation is a positive thing, your views get a little shaky, as the best way to protect those divisions is either through protectionnist laws or through secessions into different states. Other paths lead to marginalization of divisions and assimilation, there is a countless amount of precedent.
Vineon 2 years ago
Let's have an example of a childhood indoctrination that poisoned a spirit and let's hear how that could ever be avoided in any world we could possibly live in.
Perhaps the day we'll be raised into tubes without parents until we're 30?
Vineon 2 years ago
@Vineon the answer is YES. There is a new scientific revolution provided by the Information Technology, and the trend is keep all the diversity at its maximum level of granularity, which is "the individual level". Each individual a "nation" if you prefer or "need that word to live". But the fights of "groups" is really divisive and attempts against the ultimate individuality, washing brains and attacking other "groups". That model failed, and I will expect a little grandeur from each person.
neoflyboy 2 years ago
I've heard someone debate that point not too long ago and frankly it is ridiculous to constantly reduce the sample until you reach "individuals" size.
Yes diversity exists amongst individuals, that is not something that can be argued, but theres also a set core of values shared by groups and those are the kinds that deserve protection.
One thing you definitely want to avoid, is extreme homogeinization, that would be an absolute disaster.
Vineon 2 years ago
That is the path to a straight arrow evolution rather than a one being done in several branches. In short, a very less productive evolution, one very much slowed down.
Besides, it's frankly a "utopia" that could only be achieved through some violence as minorities aren't too keen on silently disappearing.
Vineon 2 years ago
May I also ask if you support Canada's annexion to the United States?
Vineon 2 years ago
@Vienon we want the same but it appears that propose "almost" opposite paths. I asked some time ago, which reason can a bear have to attack a human? and somebody told me "we are both very territorial beasts". That is sad. I think groups can be dynamic not tight to an specific piece of land, look at youtube not the EU, not always the same individuals, able to mutate, combine with and nurture from others more quickly. Another world is possible. Yesterday's idealism is today's vulgarity.
neoflyboy 2 years ago
Forget idealism and let's talk realism, pragmatism.
Tell me what you propose be done that can realistically be done.
This world was shaped by people who thought differently yet intertwined and exchanged ideas and ways of life. Evolution happened at much faster pace when they started exchanging, as opposed to kept isolated nations that didn't evolve as fast.
Vineon 2 years ago
I don't think we want the same at all. What is it that we both want?
What you want is an end to all conflicts through an impossible to achieve without violence complete homogeinization. Moreover, I have a feeling this is a view your developped that's symptomatic of being part of the current dominant social-cultural group, the one currently assimilating rather than being assimilated. In short, you have no concession to make. Would you hold the same speech if you weren't? I'm not convinced.
Vineon 2 years ago
@Vineon actually YES. I'm from latin america (LA) and I could not say we are a very... "winning dominant culture" and in fact talk about "win and lose" is taboo in LA and it's not well seen. L'hispanité is not imperialist today. I'm an immigrant in Quebec, I think the "loi 101" is correct, and it appears I can surprise you even more. It is clear that you have developed a repulsive instinct against certain "dominant groups". It sounds like bush, "they are with us or against us" :O
neoflyboy 2 years ago
Oh, I will make the corelation that someone openly against our language legislations and against Québec sovereignty is either welcoming our cultural marginalisation or is simply ignorant. So yeah, pretty much "against us", or at least "against me". However, it is perfectly defendable to believe this might be whats best for Québec and I can respect that. I will certainly never adhere to it however as I don't personally believe it is at all.
Nothing to do with "Bush".
Vineon 2 years ago
D'ailleurs si vous n'êtes pas Canadian anglophone, je préférerais que l'on passe au français.
Vous maîtrisez probablement la langue, celle-ci étant beaucoup plus facile à apprendre que l'anglais pour les hispanophones.
Vineon 2 years ago
@Vineon Tout le monde m'a dit la même chose au sujet de la facilité pour les hispanophones. Mais je ne suis bon pour les langues. J'ai appris l'anglais il y a 5 ans. Dans l'Argentine j'ai étudié le français dans l'école secondaire. Quand même l'invasion de les États Unis dans l'amerique latin a été aussi profonde. Il me reste 5 ans jusqu'a pouvoir débattre en français dans YouTube.
neoflyboy 2 years ago
Pourquoi 5 ans, vous semblez tout à fait capable d'écrire la langue.
Je ne demande pas la perfection, ça serait assez hypocrite de ma part.
Vineon 2 years ago
@Vineon who is culturally marginalized? who is against the language legislation? you? Because I said, if you read, that it is a good thing, and I think Quebec is a model to follow for latin america in "that particular" aspect. Even if with 350 millions of native speakers the Spanish is not at risk, and any spanish guy will initially hate England with or without reason. We were invaded but we refused them. Anyway they helped to cut the links with Spain to gain control lately by market "laws".
neoflyboy 2 years ago
There is quite a lot of people against language legislation, you must not read the papers of the RoC much. I'm glad you think highly of Bill 101 but the thing generally gets pretty terrible press.
Vineon 2 years ago
That's why I think the strategy of Quebec "can" be expansionist and influence Latin America to follow that steps, blocking the British empire in all the fronts is at least funny LOL. It is still true that immigrants are usually driven from fears, and "english" sounds like more "secure" due to marketing, that's why I think the law 101 is needed to avoid that due to fear people commit an stupidity.
neoflyboy 2 years ago
@tomyweekend bon point
Yomen38 1 year ago
''You have nothing to say. ''
You repeat this over and over, like a broken record (yawn).
Yet you keep replying to my every post.
Do you think that if you repeat something many times that somehow it will make it true?
If I have nothing to say, how come you flip out every time I say it?
AdamSzm 2 years ago
Comment removed
Vineon 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I flip out at your position, yes.
Which is one of being against something without knowing anything about it.
You've said one thing so far "sovereignists can only scream and insult". If you believe that it is all there's ever been from their side of the ideological spectrum, you clearly never had the intention to really argue.
All I'm asking, is for you to come up with something better. Actually, simply to come up with something.
You still show your inability to do that.
Vineon 2 years ago
"attempt something better than "separatists will just scream and insult" as a way out of an exchange."
OK, no problem. Let me try to attempt something.
Separatists just scream and insult. Because they feel powerless and angry. Because all non-Francophones and many Francophones don't buy their crap. Because they have no arguments other than an idea of a nation to back up their claims. Because they can't draw a wider audience.
All they can do is cry for attention...
(how did I do?)
AdamSzm 2 years ago
I've neither screamed nor insulted. I feel neither powerless nor angry.
I've asked you to come with something and you came with nothing. The irony is having you pretend sovereignists have no argument, when you've brought none yourself.
This is a constancy amongst federalists, this claim sovereignists can't defend their standpoint... just don't ask a federalist to do the same.
I've spent my last few posts trying to argue, you haven't done that. You have nothing to say.
Vineon 2 years ago 6
If from the get-go people like you believe the concepts of identity, cultural preservation and nation aren't worthy arguments, theres a clear misunderstanding of ethnology here.
Most take the other route however, because the first is undefendable. That other route being trying to prove Québec isn't financially viable, or internationally legit. That was where I was hoping you'd go.
Go ahead, try harder this time.
Vineon 2 years ago
"If this is what your crass categorization brings to the table, nobody needs you here."
Thanks, but I think I'll stay.
AdamSzm 2 years ago
I meant in the middle of this debate with your narrow-minded views.
Considering you didn't care to make a proper retort, I'll just assume you took my advise (leaving this argument). If you want to pretend you've stayed however, you can attempt something better than "separatists will just scream and insult" as a way out of an exchange.
Vineon 2 years ago
@dtwmtl
I have never met people as self-righteous, self-indulgent, self-entitled, melodramatic and yet so insecure as Quebec nationalists.
There is no talking to these people really. They will just scream and insult. We just have to live with this noisy bunch, but I think (and hope) that not for too long. The new generation of kids growing up in Quebec right now will have no reason to hate Canada. So maybe this separatist/nationalist nonsense will soon disappear from our province.
AdamSzm 2 years ago
"There is no talking to these people really. They will just scream and insult."
He was talking to me and I have neither screamed nor insulted anyone. If this is what your crass categorization brings to the table, nobody needs you here.
Again, Québec sovereignism is not fueled on hatred for Canada. I was born in Ontario but entirely raised in Québec. However half of my family still lives there and to this I add my many Canadian friends. I love Canada, I wish the best for it.
Vineon 2 years ago
As far as preserving differences, what are we talking about here? Look at what the youth of Quebec is watching on TV, listen to their music, it's all American ifluenced!
Ask any girl about lady gaga and they will give you her biography. Ask any boy about a rap artist, and they'll do the same.
The whole world hates the U.S. but they all like whatever comes from it. Be it music, fashion, culture, food. Enough said, I'm right!
dtwmtl 2 years ago
"Look at what the youth of Quebec is watching on TV, listen to their music, it's all American ifluenced!"
Certainly not denying Americanisation! It is still not on the same level as it is in Canada. Québec's distinction after all, is that of being a mix of North America and Europe to most.
For example, in Québec, the top 15 most watched tv shows are Québec products. In Canada, the top 15 most watched tv productions are American productions.
Vineon 2 years ago
The fedaral lands will be off premise. Hence, it would reduce the size of the existing borders. Don't tell me that all the land belongs to you. You also have the first nations, you actually think that they will give everything over to you? You guys cannot even begin to control them, please! You people have a collapsing infrustructure that you cannot yet fix. In 1976, you dumbasses were planning on blowing up bridges so that the army would not invade, and people would stay!
dtwmtl 2 years ago
Managing your own destiny? That is a joke! With what funds? Your government taxes the hell out of its people, crucifies any company that plans to invest in Quebec. Hydro Quebec? Ubisoft? Who else is there...... Goodyear closed, GM closed and it wasn't because Firebirds/Camaros weren't selling. Ask your government officials why they have the choice to educate their children where they want and what gives them that right!
Better question, what will be left if separation is achieved?
dtwmtl 2 years ago
"crucifies any company that plans to invest in Quebec."
Québec is known to be very lenient when it comes to taxing corporations. They also get very interesting energy deals. Because your list included HQ, a public institution and Ubisoft, hilariously the only actual (foreign) company you could mention, I'm not sure if I should even actually bother reply.
Vineon 2 years ago
Québec's mining sector is amongst the worlds top 10. Bombardier alone is 3rd world producer of airplanes and first of trains. Our aerospace resume is very impressive, to Bombardier we add others like Pratt and Whitney. SNC Lavalin is one of the top engineering firms in the world.
Québécor is a multimedia monster not crumbling under debts like most of them today, they also own an impressive array of assets all through Canada.
Vineon 2 years ago
Québec is a leader in the pharmaceutical industry and still an important producer of lumber/paper although that is declining due to a lower demand.
It is also a leader in the developement of softwares and bio technologies. It is by far the state in NA that is the least dependant on oil and its water reserves had some call it "the saudi arabia of water".
Vineon 2 years ago
Partition is not only illegal by our current own Canadian Laws but also by international laws. If you don't believe that, ask the russians in Ukraine, or the Serbians in Kosovo. The entire Québec territory belongs to it.
You will need to elaborate on the First Nations because it is clear you know nothing whatsoever about them. First off, Québec, has 8% of their Canadian population, they live mostly in Ontario and the western provinces.
Vineon 2 years ago
Secondly, they revendicate an enormous amount of Canadian territory, for example something like 75% of BC. Unlike you, Canada probably realizes the can of worms it would be opening by offering the Québec First Nations more than Québec could offer them. Because of it, Québec should be advantaged in the next round of negotiation with them.
Vineon 2 years ago
In the late 90s, la Paix des Braves was signed with the Crees, along with similar treaties with other nations (ex : inuits).
In 2003, Ted Moses, then leader of the Cree, endorsed the sovereignist provincial party, le Parti Québécois.
What you do is what Canadians always do, take the First Nations for granted. They owe no allegiance whatsoever to Québec but neither to Canada, remember that. They owe allegiance to themselves and Québec is better equipped to make them a better offer.
Vineon 2 years ago
As for not "controlling them", sorry, but us Québécois, unlike you anglos, dont feel we should control them at all. We aren't the ones that put them on reserves, we aren't the ones that forced assimilation on them, they were for the first time schooled in their native tongue when Québec took over their education from Ottawa. If you missed it, the federal government just recently made a formal apology to the First Nations for that.
Vineon 2 years ago
Nobody asked you to change your name or culture. Refering to my comment that Quebec is surrounded by the English language, which Separatists fail to realize, English is the language of business.
I am originally from a European nation, have been educated in 3 languages, have resided in Montreal, Toronto, Orlando, Tampa, Detroit/Windsor, Chicago. Two of my children are fluent in the following: English, French, Spanish, Latin, Greek and German. Can any one of you do that??!!??
dtwmtl 2 years ago
Reading that souvereignists fail to realize Québec is surrounded by english is probably the more ridiculous thing I've read today.
It is this very fact that convinces most sovereignists they need and deserve a state, partly to insure their perpetuity in such an uncomfortable situation.
Nobody denies english is the language of business either.
Because your list includes latin which means immersion was impossible, I will take the liberty not to believe your claim.
Vineon 2 years ago
Not only that, but your elected officials, and/or your stupid bills which you supported, do not even allow you to educate your kids or yourselves to the schools of your choice.
To the west, there's English, to the south and east, English. What are you morons thinking?
Even if you do achieve separation, what exactly did you idiots accomplish? Shit!!!
dtwmtl 2 years ago
"To the west, there's English, to the south and east, English. What are you morons thinking?"
Certainly not that we too, should be english. An english Québec is nothing, just like Canada, it would be simply a northern cultural appendice of the United States. Without color or flavor, the same.
Québec thrives on being itself, being different. We aim to preserve these differences. You can hate us for it, we sure don't give a fuck.
Vineon 2 years ago
Face it, idiots, you will all die off one day and you will have accomplished absolutely nothing! You all try to alter historical facts, your own government keeps you in the dark, so that you line their pockets yet have yours empty. You have held power for how long now and nothing but nothing has improved in Quebec, be it from industry to infrustructure. Money that has been given from Ottawa has either been embezeled or wasted on your pathetic language police. Wake the f#@k up!!!!
dtwmtl 2 years ago
Define accomplishing something. What has Canada accomplished?
You accuse others of revisionism? Give a few examples.
Québec has made a remarkable (and still is) transition from a manufacturing nation to now switching its primary sectors to high technology.
By itself, without a cent of funding from Ottawa, Hydro-Québec became the largest hydro-power producer of the world.
Québec has got to be the nation that went the fastest from a very religious one to a secular one.
Vineon 2 years ago
The "language police" spends very little money. As much as you want to believe there are patrols of them everywhere, it consists about 3 clerks working based on complaints from citizens only.
You don't know anything, you are not in any position to tell anyone to "wake up". In fact, it is you that should.
Vineon 2 years ago
"Even if you do achieve separation, what exactly did you idiots accomplish? Shit!!! "
We would gave ourselves the tools to finally manage our own destiny, rather than stick to being a minority and have others manage it for us.
We'll have accomplished independance.
Vineon 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
"on"
Ne t'avises même pas à croire pouvoir parler pour les autres.
Il se trouve que le Québec possède sa nationalité propre et qui tu y vis. Tu profites probablement de certain de ces aspects autant que tu rejètes ce que tu préfères ailleurs.
Je trouve intéressant que nation québécois soit entre guillemets. S'il y a véritablement une nation Canadienne, c'est bien celle-là qui est plus difficile à définir si l'on accepte pas un parallèle direct avec la nation américaine.
Vineon 2 years ago
"Allez-vous prétendre que votre éducation en français ne vous a pas adapté à la vie au Québec, nation francophone?"
Ca m'a prepare à la vie à la province du Québec, mais pas à la "nation quebecois". On fait partie de la nation Canadienne, pas Quebecoise.
AdamSzm 2 years ago
Comment removed
Vineon 2 years ago
Joel Garreau (un Américain, il est important de le souligner) disait dans son livre 'Nine Nations of America", dans lequel il fait le découpement de la société nord-américaine en nations propres, disait du Québec que des neuf nations, celle ci était la plus improbable mais la plus indéniable des nations.
Tes guillemets, tu peux vraiment te les foutre dans le cul.
Vineon 2 years ago
"Avec ce refus vient les conséquences de ne pas profiter des droits associés aux citoyens."
Je me'en fous des droits des citoyens. Je ne vote jamais quand meme au Quebec, et je ne participe pas à la vie politique. Je serais complètement à l'aise d'habiter ici comme un "expat", ou un "visiteur permanent".
AdamSzm 2 years ago
"Now if Québec could bring back from the death its Québec citizenship project"
I lived in Quebec most of my life. I speak French on daily basis and function in the Quebecois society as if I was born here. Still, I would refuse Quebec citizenship if I was offered one. I want to live here as a Canadian, and will do so even if Quebec manages to separate one day.
AdamSzm 2 years ago
"Still, I would refuse Quebec citizenship if I was offered one."
Avec ce refus vient les conséquences de ne pas profiter des droits associés aux citoyens.
La même rengaine, un certificat de citoyenneté est valable au Canada, l'est tout autant pour la majorité des nations mais ne le serait pas pour la nation Québécoise.
Vineon 2 years ago
"They will be taught in french and Québec's goal is to acclimate them to Québec society"
I was taught in French as were most of my allophone friends. Today, all of us find Quebec nationalism repulsive. As we did back in high school.
You can teach us French, that's fine, it's another language on our CV. But don't think you can brainwash us with this separatist nonsense that easily.
AdamSzm 2 years ago
Serait-il trop vous demander d'élaborer sur ce supposé "nonsense" dont vous parlez?
En français si possible, puisque vous le parlez.
Allez-vous prétendre que votre éducation en français ne vous a pas adapté à la vie au Québec, nation francophone? N'était-ce pas là mon argument?
Si le but visé était de faire de chaque nouvel arrivant un "séparatiste", les politiques linguistiques auraient, j'ose le croire, était rayés de la carte par nos partis fédéralistes provinciaux.
Vineon 2 years ago
Cette répulsion que vous avez envers tout fait Québécois pue franchement le racisme.
L'intolérance, vous l'entretenez.
Vineon 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
You are repeating exactly what I said, immigrants don't feel they should take this gamble after making the effort to come here.
Your other post is attempted vomit through categorization; something I've never said. I have certainly never claimed Canada isn't a great country, I constantly argue it is.
Vineon 2 years ago
It is Canada they moved to and they quickly take advantage of it's great 'niveau de vie'.
It would be ridiculous to launch into the unknown by backing a Québec independance movement, of a nation they aren't even accustommed with.
Now if Québec could bring back from the death its Québec citizenship project, that would be a good step in the right direction to put emphasis on its cultural distinction. It should be known the nation they join is the Québec nation.
Vineon 2 years ago
"Nobody will want to risk a (possible) economic and political backlash if things are good. "
That's the new immigrants. Their children are everyone's fair game. They will be taught in french and Québec's goal is to acclimate them to Québec society, to Québec culture.
From there, they will look into things with more perspectives than their parents.
Vineon 2 years ago
Of course you will now start on how Canada isnt so good, and the need for change, etcIve heard it all before.
You would have a much easier task if Quebec was a part of the USSR. Unfortunately, youre a part of Canada. And a lot of people in QC like it here (myself included).
AdamSzm 2 years ago
While Québec controls a major part of its immigration, Canada does the promotion
It is more complex than that. Im an immigrant and lived in QC most of my life, and I can tell you why you will never be able to attract a lot of immigrants to your side: Canada, while not perfect, is simply too good a country. Nobody will want to risk a (possible) economic and political backlash if things are good.
AdamSzm 2 years ago
Comment removed
Vineon 2 years ago
As for a need for change, it depends on what the Québécois accept happen. The safe option of staying in Canada has a price: an eventual maginalization of the Québec society, a near fatality.
Or it can take the gutsy approach and believe it can do what everybody else appears able to do: give itself a state, a place on a world map and the tools to do its own promotion and auto-manage itself. A stateless nation isn't bound to stay around much longer.
Vineon 2 years ago
"Like immigrants flowing in abnormal numbers"
It's funny how the federal government doesn't even have to exert itself to convince people to vote against Quebec's nationalistic initiatives. All it has to do is to hand out citizenship certificates.
AdamSzm 2 years ago
"All it has to do is to hand out citizenship certificates."
Naturally so.
While Québec controls a major part of its immigration, Canada does the promotion. Those immigrants were just granted CANADIAN citizenship, after having been chosen from the many waiting in line to get in the country.
Vineon 2 years ago
Moreover, to many of them, such a secession is synonymous with revolution and violence... it certainly isn't a reality surrounding the unity question in Québec/Canada.
It is perfectly understable that new immigrants would vote against Québec sovereignty and Canada massively abused it.
Vineon 2 years ago
It's up to you how you go about it. You can do it right, or you can railroad it. If you do the latter, don't expect people to pay too much attention to your new political entity you would call an independent state. Nobody will pay the slightest attention to you.
AdamSzm 2 years ago
I believe the international community will open their eyes and ears to such a democratic result.
France was ready to recognize a winning result in 95.
What was at stake has always been clear to everyone.
Vineon 2 years ago
Youre not listening to me, mate. I said something beyond the margin of error, not 60%. It's in your interest to make it as clean as possible.
The question should reflect your true intentions. Don't snow people with partnerships and agreements. These things are a given. You're deflecting from the main issue. Do you want Quebec to be an independent country? Yes/No. Man up. Pose cette question et on y va.
AdamSzm 2 years ago
Democracy has always been 50%+1. It isnt 50%+1 for one side and 60% for the other.
People get elected with 50%+1, governements are formed with 50%+1, decisions are made and legislature is passed with 50%+1.
Vineon 2 years ago
You will not gain legitimacy as an independent state unless you:
1-Ask a clear question
2- Get a clear majority (something beyond the margin of error)
3- Count the votes honestly.
The crap you tried to pull in 1995 cannot happen again.
AdamSzm 2 years ago
1) A clear question it was, everybody knew what they were voting for that day.
2) clear majority : 50%+1, the way democracy always worked. You don't get to redefine democracy so it fits your objectives, the way the Clarity Bill does.
3) Agreed, this should be done (and the whole referendum should be organised) by an international commitee.
Vineon 2 years ago
"The crap you tried to pull in 1995 cannot happen again."
Uh????? Like the sponsorship scandal? Going several times overbudget?
Like immigrants flowing in abnormal numbers (only time ever Québec had more immigrants getting citizenship within a year than Ontario did), getting their citizenship several months (years!) sooner?
Like people voting when they shouldn't have been able to? I believe a number beyond what was the difference in 95 between the yes and no vote?
Vineon 2 years ago
I will note, Newfoundland wouldn't have joined Canada under the "Clarity Bill".
Vineon 2 years ago
Québec still wants Canada as a partner
You want Quebec to be an independent state. Thats the issue at stake. Man up and ask a direct question. Grow balls. Dont beat around the bush. Dont sugarcoat.
It wants the question to be as brutal as it can be
Obviously.
would still have the right to call it unclear
No, they wouldnt. Asking it like that would be fair game. Do you want Quebec to be an independent state? Yes/No. Lets see how it plays out.
AdamSzm 2 years ago
"Québec still wants Canada as a partner"
And whatever happens, whatever the question asked, this is a given. The question is simply how this partnership will be defined. For example, there is very little reason not to immediately include Québec in the NAFTA.
Vineon 2 years ago
"Do you agree that Québec should become sovereign after having made a formal offer to Canada for a new economic and political partnership within the scope of the bill respecting the future of Québec and of the agreement signed on June 12, 1995?"
What is all that nonsense after "Do you agree that Québec should become sovereign" part? Parizeu wanted to secede unilateraly the next day. You know and I know that the question was meant to confuse. Hence the Clarity Act initiative afterwards.
AdamSzm 2 years ago
"Parizeu wanted to secede unilateraly the next day."
Wrong and he has said so many times. Under Lucien Bouchard's conditions, he agreed this would only be done if Canada refuses all negotiations.
Which is exactly what the question says.... at least to those that can read, which seems to not your case.
Vineon 2 years ago
The Clarity Act, quite a wonderful piece of work that laughs in the face of democracy redefining a majority, isn't worth a penny.
It wants the question to be as brutal as it can be, which makes impossible any sort of implication Québec still wants Canada as a partner, which is only natural. Clear complete independence doesn't even exist.
Vineon 2 years ago
That passage of the Clarity Bill is a 2nd protection.... should Québec get its 60% in favour of a secession, they will always be allowed to pretend the question wasn't valid, invalidating the result.... Canada gets to bend the rules the way they see fit to make sure the "impossible" never happens.
Vineon 2 years ago
Facts remain there wasn't a soul that didn't know what he was voting for that day. The turnout was around the 95% if I remember well, which is insane.
Under the Clarity act, if the question were : do you agree Québec should secede from Canada and become sovereign, they would still have the right to call it unclear, saying the question didn't imply how this would be done.
They never defined what "clear" means and they certainly don't plan to, that would be giving away their hidden ace.
Vineon 2 years ago
Secede first and then worry about Quebec being partitioned. As it is, you can't even get a majority to follow you into a disaster that an independent Quebec would be. You can't even get 50%+ on a convoluted tricky question. And if it ever happens, be ready to deal with the only metropolis within your new "country" being 90% loyal to Canada. A Trojan Horse in the heart of your "nation", I'd say,
AdamSzm 2 years ago
"Secede first and then worry about Quebec being partitioned. "
Which is illegal under Canadian and International laws.
Vineon 2 years ago
"As it is, you can't even get a majority to follow you into a disaster that an independent Quebec would be."
I'd say 49.4% in 95, the last time it was asked is close enough to believe it may happen eventually.
Under very little basis could you claim an independant Québec is a train wreck waiting to happen. If you persist on saying it, at the very least explain why that is.
The best countries to live in according to the UN are demographically, geographically and socially identical to Québec.
Vineon 2 years ago
"You can't even get 50%+ on a convoluted tricky question. "
Oh how desastrously typical.
I'm doubting you even ever read the question.
If you did and did not understand it, you should fall under what should exist as "too goddamn stupid to have the right to vote".
Everybody and their grandma knew what they were voting for in 95, I am sick to death of hearing that one.
Vineon 2 years ago
"And if it ever happens, be ready to deal with the only metropolis within your new "country" being 90% loyal to Canada."
Congratulations, you understand nothing of Montréal's demographics. While it has a majority of people disapproving independance, it is certainly NOT 90%. Moreover Montréal's crown voted for independance back in 95 as did the east island (who are likely the most pro-sovereignty people in the province).
Is Québec Canada's "Trojan horse"?
Vineon 2 years ago
Should I even add this precision : Canadian laws also make illegal a partition of Québec without its consent.
Vineon 2 years ago
If we go by international laws, a newly seceded territory cannot be partitionned. A Kosovo secession went with a northern serbian population that had to go with it. Same with the many russian minorities in eastern europe countries after the collapse of the ussr.
I'm also sure you've heard of what happened in Georgia last year. Your own country doesn't recognize South Ossetia's secession neither does it recognize the Serbians in Kosovo the right to remain in Serbia.
Vineon 2 years ago
I wasn't born in Québec although its forever been my home. Racism is not more prohiminent here than anywhere else, which statistics show clearly.
I live around and also work with plenty of people coming from different part of the globe. Racism exists but is marginalised. Québec IS probably the most progressive and tolerant part of North America.
Vineon 2 years ago 2
if you will remember 10000 years that 200 years ago they were calling you frogs and whatever you will never be happy...I hate the racists wherever they might be..I am in quebec, I want everybody to be free to choose it's language of instruction...en ce moment-là je parlerais seulement, exclusivement la langue française.
dacianr 2 years ago
Parfait.
Tu as totalement le droit de choisir ta langue d'instruction au niveau collégial en montant. Tout le monde y a droit.
Avant ça, le français est obligatoire, autant que l'anglais langue seconde. Ce protectionnisme linguistiques est nécessaire pour une nation de 7+ millions entourée d'une autre, dominante, de 330 millions.
Le Québec reste le village d'Astérix dans un sens. Ce protectionnisme est notre 'potion magique'.
Vineon 2 years ago
D'ailleurs, si tes parents ont choisi le Québec, ils t'ont choisi une éducation française. Point final, si ça leur pose problème, c'est quelque chose qu'il fallait considérer avant. Personne ne force qui que se soit à s'installer au Québec.
Ensuite, plus tard, avec une maturité grandissante, le choix s'ouvre à une éducation complète en anglais si c'est ton désir.
Vineon 2 years ago 2
I lost an entire comment here..i will not repeat it...have a good life and let the others live too
dacianr 2 years ago
in the case quebec will play the independence game i am confident that the rest of canada will welcome the areas where the population is, in majority, against the separation. it will be a pity, though
dacianr 2 years ago
This is called partition of a newly seceded state. Illegal by Canadian laws and more importantly, illegal by international laws.
Vineon 2 years ago
But the partition of Canada is fine. Someone arbirtarily decided that Canada is divisible and Quebec is not. Very convinient. But if Quebec is allowed to hold a referendum, so should Montreal. And if the result of the Quebec referendum is to be respected, so should be the result of the Montreal referendum. And Montreal will vote to stay withnin Canada. So bonne chance, separatistes.
AdamSzm 2 years ago
If we go by international laws, a newly seceded territory cannot be partitionned. A Kosovo secession that seceded went with a northern serbian population that had to go with it. Same thing with the many russians minorities in eastern europe countries after the collapse of the ussr. I'm sure you've heard of what happened in Georgia last year.
Vineon 2 years ago
What is conveniant is the belief that Québec needs a majority of its citizens to agree to secede to do it and that it should accept at the same time that it can then be partitionned depending on Canada's will.
It is senseless hypocrisy. Canada thus would impose to Québécois the partitionist votes to secede, whom could then still not secede along with it.
Vineon 2 years ago
There are also profound distinctions between English Canadians living in Québec and the Québécois. The English Canadians represent a minority within no set territory. They don't pretend to be a nation of their own, they cannot even claims to be, they can only claim to be Canadians, like russians living in ukraine could before they were made Ukrainians.
Vineon 2 years ago
It would probably take a few decades for English Quebecers to gain the same legitimacy to secede or join Canada back. As of now, they have no government and no national identity of their own. They can consider themselves to be Canadians away from Canada all they want : Québec sovereignists don't pretend to be French away from France, they consider themselves Québécois.
Vineon 2 years ago
we will not leave quebec anyway..it will be cowardness...we have to change this place...you transformed it too...now, the new immigrants will do their part in making it a better place.
dacianr 2 years ago
"the way that you are treating the immigrants? "
????? Tell me how we mistreat immigrants.
"can you start to understand why they hate you?"
No, not at all.
I don't understand why Albertan policemen hate ME because of 'this incident'. Care to explain?
Vineon 2 years ago
not the policemen...the anglophones ant the allophones.
dacianr 2 years ago
I dont hate either, why do they hate me?
I do have many friends from all parts of Canada and they know my allegiances. They don't hate me for it.
Vineon 2 years ago
Comment removed
Obasiliasfilosofos 2 years ago
CrackerJacklee you are just as equally a fucktard and embarrassment too the people of Quebec , A moron just as the anglophiles you are flaming with.
You know nothing about history, oddly enough you are very clueless about the very "francophone" culture you are being a obnoxious dick over.
Obasiliasfilosofos 2 years ago
all i hear from you is name calling. does this gain respect for you in your circles? do you have anything intelligent to say? or do you revel in your ability to be dull and pointless?
and since when did you become spokeman for Quebec? you sound like your afraid of speaking out and losing your "good" english friends, LOL!
read a book, engage people in conversations to learn how it's done. then you can return and make valuable points instead of calling people names, LOL!
CrackerJackLee 2 years ago
Comment removed
Obasiliasfilosofos 2 years ago
Pardonne-moi mon Alain mais si tu as essayé d'être objectif dans ton vidéo tu ne l'es point. Ne pas dire certains instants de l'histoire: c'est l'effacer et effacer l'histoire du Québec c'est immoral et ignoble. Et si tu as simplement mit dans ton vidéo les bout de l'histoire que tu connais, alors tu connais trop mal notre histoire.
GenocideTabarnak 2 years ago
Un commentaire constructif aurait fait l'énumération de ce qui manque au vidéo afin que celui-ci soit complet.
Pour ce qui est d'Alain, moi je lis "a Crazy Story by Sylvain Allard". Une belle preuve d'analyse de l'oeuvre n'est-ce-pas?
Vineon 2 years ago
Pas du tout, jai écrit ça vite car j'étais outré. Tu as PARFAITEMENT raison! J'aurais du écrire mon opinion de façon totalement différente. Sur ce, si l'auteur le veut bien je lui expliquerai que son travail est incomplet.
GenocideTabarnak 2 years ago
Ton commentaire initial n'était pas en privé et les accusations portés sont assez graves. On parle d'immoralité.
Il te revient donc d'en faire l'analyse ici, autrement cette critique ne mérite que de passer dans le vide.
Vineon 2 years ago
Il est immoral de trafiquer l'histoire d'un peuple en la diluant de son intégralité car ça l'a à long terme des répercutions dévasteuses sur un peuple. Toutefois, je ne vois point pourquoi tu ne répettes ça, j'ai déjà dit que mon propos étaient injustes et précipités. Que les écrire sans recul était une erreur. Que gagnes-tu à m'entendre le dire par deux fois?
GenocideTabarnak 2 years ago
Ton commentaire dit "précipité" tu le répètes et renouvelles dans chacun de tes nouveaux.
Des accusations de trafriquage doivent s'accompagnées de ce qui à été trafiqué, la preuve quoi. Si le vidéo n'est pas complet, tu le complètes, tu dénotes les grands événements manquants, tout en respectant le thème (ici 'nation in motion') démontrant que tu comprends le contexte.
On s'attaque au contenu dans les règles de l'art ou on ne le fais pas.
Vineon 2 years ago
Voyons donc, il y a deux possibilité ici: L'auteur à apprit la version de l'histoire qu'il enseigne à l'Université Laval et donc, dans la Capitale-Nationale et ne sait point qu'il à fait une erreur majeure et lorsqu'il sera intéressé à la savoir, il se manifestera. L'autre possibilité est qu'il le sait fort bien qu'il nuit à notre nation et s'en calice profondemment. Et tu remarqueras que je ne compte point enlever ce discour de mes écrits. Aussi:
GenocideTabarnak 2 years ago
Je n'aurais certainement point dû présenter ce commentaire à tous dans la mesure du doute. Mais je n'ai pas à écrire les justifications sous l'unique prétexte d'ordre de conduite. Je donnerai les expliquations à qui sera intéressé à les connaitre et non par devoir, oublication et respect.
GenocideTabarnak 2 years ago
"Je donnerai les expliquations à qui sera intéressé à les connaitre"
Je suis donc intéressé à les connaître.
Vineon 2 years ago
what english Canadians really fear the most is Quebec forming close ties with Americans because Quebec has more water and hydro electric power that any nation on the planet! this would push the rest of Canada back to a secondary position in North American politics.
CrackerJackLee 3 years ago
and do you only want to keep Quebec in Canada so that you can have a continous land mass to the Atlantic maritime provinces? LOL!
CrackerJackLee 3 years ago
you don't get it! the beauty of Quebec is the Quebec culture and people. you hate the ones you love the most!
CrackerJackLee 3 years ago
if you want to get on with your life, then do so, and stop crying about the French people - who don't even know that you exist! and why is there such concern over world opinion? what has that got to do with anything. if i listened to the opinions of strangers, i would become a stranger to myself! LOL!
CrackerJackLee 3 years ago
the english are really the illigitimate descendents of german tribal conquerors and viking raider pirates. bastard spawn who have raced through the world like a plague, murdering all who stand in the way of their manic masonic agenda.
CrackerJackLee 3 years ago
Comment removed
Obasiliasfilosofos 2 years ago
what about the Normans? they invaded england, conquered it in 1066, and created all english laws and customs after those of the French people. you sound like someone who just opened a history book for the first time, searched the index for France and jotted down a bunch of elementary historical facts. but you forgot about having a point. you're dull AND pointless. as for your sexual fantasy, well, your statement came from your own sub-conscious, not mine. it's called psychological projection.
CrackerJackLee 2 years ago
Comment removed
Obasiliasfilosofos 2 years ago
the KKK in reverse is the KKK. the KKK were a racist anglo masonic sect of the southern U.S. who wore hoods and killed black americans and harrassed french acadians (cajuns). you should not make these comparisons lightly. you are not black. just because i speak the truth out loud does not make me evil. you can call me out all you want, but you have not contributed anything real to the discussion - just name calling.
CrackerJackLee 2 years ago
Comment removed
Obasiliasfilosofos 2 years ago
KKK
KLU
KLUX
K-BECOIS
IH8QUEBEC 2 years ago
Comment removed
Obasiliasfilosofos 2 years ago
i lived on the west coast for 8 years. i assure you that i know the truth about vancouver and the island. they don't like french at all. and they hate french people. my own father was threatened on the train when he came out to visit me. i can't recall more than one person from Quebec out there. they just don't like you if you're french. so don't lie to me, eh?
CrackerJackLee 2 years ago
Comment removed
Obasiliasfilosofos 2 years ago
oh, my little name caller, you've adapted the policies of the weak kneed liberal politically correct condescending english supremist. you still have no valid point. what is your point? you like Quebec when they obey, but not when they speak up?
CrackerJackLee 2 years ago
I don't want this tribal clash to turn into Yugoslavia pal, I want peace between the two, Perhaps even friendship.
If someone runs at you with a knife, Defend yourself!
If a troll on youtube posts garbage you tell them to fuck off or ignore them all together! You don't begin imitating them!
"The best revenge is to be unlike him who performed the injury, Reject your sense of injury and the injury itself disappears". Marcus Aurelius- Emperor of Rome~
Obasiliasfilosofos 2 years ago
I got to admit, I error'ed in how I first approached you when I started this conversation.
I only read through half the posts on this video, I did not know the full context of how your little flame war started, I do now.
The English are not your enemy, Even if a vocal fringe of English wish to make it look that way, I'll even admit that I think allot of red necks live on the west coast, I wouldn't pit them all in that narrow category.
Obasiliasfilosofos 2 years ago
same thing the Quebec does with its immigrants
dacianr 2 years ago
Québec does nothing wrong with its immigrants.
Should you pursue in that saying, at least elaborate, child.
Vineon 2 years ago