Lord, Liar or Lunatic are not the only three options.. there's also Legend. Nothing was written down about Jesus for 30-60 years after he died, which leaves plenty of time for people to have elaborated and added stuff to the story... stuff that older pagan gods did... like walk on water, being born of a virgin on Dec 25th, turning water into wine... these myths all pre date Jesus... but this guy has waaayyyy to much emotional attachment to his imaginary friend Jesus to understand
Haha... his response is insane. "Historical arguments, philosophical arguments and apologetic reasoning can't answer the question 'What if God is not real" ... no shit
If the Bible is "truth", than you should be able to do all three ! (not have to resort to appeals to emotion and logical fallacies)
You can't KNOW something by listening to your 'heart'. Your heart pumps blood, and it takes evidence, logic and reason to rationally accept the existence of something, stupid.
@abu5alaf91 One comment can't fully explain it (check out my channel for more), but to summarize: I finally realized all those prophecies that Jesus supposedly fulfilled are little more than literary allusions, many of which weren't even prophecies in the first place (e.g. Psalms, etc.). In other words, I made one critical mistake you should never make when you're in a cult: I decided to think critically about the magical claims of the cult leader.
@scotthorlbeck hmmm okay ! thats your choice and everyone decided whats best for him and yeah i did watch ut channel you got some interesting ... ideas but all ... or most your vids you are taking a side in discussion the issue ! which you should do while critical thinking ! right ? and yeah i do that and i started my believe from zero and decided to find out on my own by reading and all and now i tell people about Christ and the hope i found in him :)
@abu5alaf91 I once found all my hope in Christ too. I wasn't happy to conclude that Christianity is a cult. My "deconversion" was a miserable experience, but I had to be honest with myself about my doubts, after being exposed to more reasonable explanations for everything that once made me believe in Christ as Lord.
@scotthorlbeck oh well man i just want to tell you one thing i bet you sick of youtube debates and arguments , but i just wana tell you when you do ur reading and researching dont take a side before you begin ! when you read something dont read it just to criticize it although criticizing is need sometimes but its not the point of it ... may i ask what made you change you mind ? like whats the point thats when you thats it ? that enough if u dont mind saying
Virgin birth? Unbelievable. Perfectly morally righteous life? Unbelievable. Miracles? Unbelievable. Death atoning for all sins past, present, future? Unbelievable. Resurrection from the dead? Unbelievable. Ascension and promise of return? Unbelievable. All of it unbelievable.
Praise God for the Holy Spirit to help us do the impossible: to believe the unbelievable.
Do I have blind faith? Yes. Are my eyes opened? Yes. Only by the power of the Spirit.
i agree with what he says to a point i do believe that sometimes its ok to wonder if the bible is true or not but to question whether or not God and Christ is true is wrong we do have to see Christ and also we do have to ask God to show us the truth that is in scripture. And i believe that the bible are the words of God, but the Word of God. God speaks his word to us and Christ is the Word. Actually, anytime the scripture its says word it means either the spoken word or message conveyed
What he is saying is that reading books, and being taught what you should believe is only going to take you so far.
To be completely taken over, you have to switch off your mind and let it freewheel into a state where delusion becomes reality.
Then you will accept every word of the bible as if it was actually true, when to any rational and open minded person, even a cursory examination of the bible will demonstrate beyond any reasonable doubt that is it most certainly is not.
@Darwinsman That's not what he's saying at all (at least, not the latter part). He is saying that analytical processes are only capable of so much, which is true. That doesn't mean "switching off your mind and let[ting] it freewheel into a state where delusion becomes reality." Let's go back to his analogy; is his belief about his wife "freewheeling into a delusional state"? No; as Spock said "logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end."
@AvadaKedavra1138 2/2. Believing in a god, for which there is no evidence other than an ancient book that is demonstrably inaccurate even from a historical standpoint requires a leap of pure blind faith, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.
William Lane Craig stated that even if he was presented with evidence that what he believed was wrong, he'd still believe it.
That is precisely what John Piper is asking you to do.
As for your "Spock" quote. Religion isn't logical.
NOTE: @OFTHEFEW Dear brother, I'm not trying to Spam but to remind you only. I hereby would like you to read and investigate the (Noble) Qur'an and may Allah (the one God) guide us all to the straight path.
*Islamic and terrorist are two words that do not go together.
*Read the Revert Sister/brother's stories on youtube and find out the truth about this world and hereafter. It's all up to you to make your choice and hope that i informed you well. :-)
.......and among you is he who is returned to the most decrepit [old] age so that he knows, after [once having] knowledge, nothing. And you see the earth barren, but when We send down upon it rain, it quivers and swells and grows [something] of every beautiful kind.
۩ O People, if you should be in doubt about the Resurrection, then [consider that] indeed, We created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then from a clinging clot, and then from a lump of flesh, formed and unformed - that We may show you. And We settle in the wombs whom We will for a specified term, then We bring you out as a child, and then [We develop you] that you may reach your [time of] maturity. And among you is he who is taken in [early] death, .............
Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ told us to know the tree from its fruit, so if you are the fruit of your "fake prophet" Muhamad then we can know what kind of person Muhamad was.
So thank you for showing your true color and Muahamd's true color as well!
Notice how he can't say that informing yourself about the facts will help, since the facts are against him. Instead it's all about adopting various denial mechanisms that work on emotion and suppress critical thinking. Very telling. Anything that requires that much mental effort to maintain belief in is almost certainly untrue. You don't see physicists having to say "Now when we doubt the existence of gravity, search your heart." The better answer is "When you have doubts, listen to them."
@kosk11348 Your response is very telling. You have completely missed the point. He's right to say that pure critical thinking can only take you so far in regards to knowing God. God is not the same kind of thing as gravity. Gravity is impersonal and created, but God is personal and uncreated and also non-physical. When you are dealing with personal beings like God and humans, you not only need to facts, but you most importantly need personal trust (faith).
@TelosQualia Faith is not a virtue. True things do not need to be supported by faith, only untrue things do. Faith is the admission that a thing cannot be justified on its own merits.
@kosk11348 Do you have any evidence of this? You are just asserting things. I think you are mixing up different types of 'faith'. There is blind faith, which is believing something because it makes you feel good (or some other non-truth seeking reason), even though you know there is no evidence for it. I would agree with your comment in that case. But, Christian faith, is more like the trust in something you know is (most likely) true and good. Scientists use this type of trust all the time.
Scientists do not use "this type of trust" as you say. They use experimentation and independently testable evidence to demonstate that something is correct, before they accept it as proved.
Christians believe things because the bible says so.
"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." Richard Dawkins.
I am reminded of that children's hymn "soon and vey soon we are going to see the king". Make sure your ready.
gherron777 5 days ago
Lord, Liar or Lunatic are not the only three options.. there's also Legend. Nothing was written down about Jesus for 30-60 years after he died, which leaves plenty of time for people to have elaborated and added stuff to the story... stuff that older pagan gods did... like walk on water, being born of a virgin on Dec 25th, turning water into wine... these myths all pre date Jesus... but this guy has waaayyyy to much emotional attachment to his imaginary friend Jesus to understand
TheGizmoskate 1 month ago
Haha... his response is insane. "Historical arguments, philosophical arguments and apologetic reasoning can't answer the question 'What if God is not real" ... no shit
If the Bible is "truth", than you should be able to do all three ! (not have to resort to appeals to emotion and logical fallacies)
You can't KNOW something by listening to your 'heart'. Your heart pumps blood, and it takes evidence, logic and reason to rationally accept the existence of something, stupid.
TheGizmoskate 1 month ago
I prayed that prayer. I cried out to God to "open my eyes to the glory of Christ in the Bible."
Today I am an atheist.
scotthorlbeck 1 month ago
@scotthorlbeck and why is that ?\
abu5alaf91 3 weeks ago
@abu5alaf91 One comment can't fully explain it (check out my channel for more), but to summarize: I finally realized all those prophecies that Jesus supposedly fulfilled are little more than literary allusions, many of which weren't even prophecies in the first place (e.g. Psalms, etc.). In other words, I made one critical mistake you should never make when you're in a cult: I decided to think critically about the magical claims of the cult leader.
scotthorlbeck 3 weeks ago
@scotthorlbeck hmmm okay ! thats your choice and everyone decided whats best for him and yeah i did watch ut channel you got some interesting ... ideas but all ... or most your vids you are taking a side in discussion the issue ! which you should do while critical thinking ! right ? and yeah i do that and i started my believe from zero and decided to find out on my own by reading and all and now i tell people about Christ and the hope i found in him :)
abu5alaf91 3 weeks ago
@abu5alaf91 I once found all my hope in Christ too. I wasn't happy to conclude that Christianity is a cult. My "deconversion" was a miserable experience, but I had to be honest with myself about my doubts, after being exposed to more reasonable explanations for everything that once made me believe in Christ as Lord.
scotthorlbeck 3 weeks ago
@scotthorlbeck oh well man i just want to tell you one thing i bet you sick of youtube debates and arguments , but i just wana tell you when you do ur reading and researching dont take a side before you begin ! when you read something dont read it just to criticize it although criticizing is need sometimes but its not the point of it ... may i ask what made you change you mind ? like whats the point thats when you thats it ? that enough if u dont mind saying
abu5alaf91 3 weeks ago
@scotthorlbeck "more reasonable explanations for everything" like what?
mariuspieter 5 days ago
The gospel is quite literally unbelievable.
Virgin birth? Unbelievable. Perfectly morally righteous life? Unbelievable. Miracles? Unbelievable. Death atoning for all sins past, present, future? Unbelievable. Resurrection from the dead? Unbelievable. Ascension and promise of return? Unbelievable. All of it unbelievable.
Praise God for the Holy Spirit to help us do the impossible: to believe the unbelievable.
Do I have blind faith? Yes. Are my eyes opened? Yes. Only by the power of the Spirit.
blahman06 1 month ago
i agree with what he says to a point i do believe that sometimes its ok to wonder if the bible is true or not but to question whether or not God and Christ is true is wrong we do have to see Christ and also we do have to ask God to show us the truth that is in scripture. And i believe that the bible are the words of God, but the Word of God. God speaks his word to us and Christ is the Word. Actually, anytime the scripture its says word it means either the spoken word or message conveyed
Firestarter30fly 1 month ago
What he is saying is that reading books, and being taught what you should believe is only going to take you so far.
To be completely taken over, you have to switch off your mind and let it freewheel into a state where delusion becomes reality.
Then you will accept every word of the bible as if it was actually true, when to any rational and open minded person, even a cursory examination of the bible will demonstrate beyond any reasonable doubt that is it most certainly is not.
Darwinsman 3 months ago
@Darwinsman That's not what he's saying at all (at least, not the latter part). He is saying that analytical processes are only capable of so much, which is true. That doesn't mean "switching off your mind and let[ting] it freewheel into a state where delusion becomes reality." Let's go back to his analogy; is his belief about his wife "freewheeling into a delusional state"? No; as Spock said "logic is the beginning of wisdom, not the end."
AvadaKedavra1138 1 month ago
@AvadaKedavra1138 2/2. Believing in a god, for which there is no evidence other than an ancient book that is demonstrably inaccurate even from a historical standpoint requires a leap of pure blind faith, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.
William Lane Craig stated that even if he was presented with evidence that what he believed was wrong, he'd still believe it.
That is precisely what John Piper is asking you to do.
As for your "Spock" quote. Religion isn't logical.
Darwinsman 1 month ago
Comment removed
Darwinsman 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
●▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬●
Indeed, [O Muhammad], you do not guide whom you like, but Allah guides whom He wills. And He is most knowing of the [rightly] guided.
w w w . q u r a n . c o m / 2 8 / 5 6
welcomewithopenmind 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
NOTE: @OFTHEFEW Dear brother, I'm not trying to Spam but to remind you only. I hereby would like you to read and investigate the (Noble) Qur'an and may Allah (the one God) guide us all to the straight path.
*Islamic and terrorist are two words that do not go together.
*Read the Revert Sister/brother's stories on youtube and find out the truth about this world and hereafter. It's all up to you to make your choice and hope that i informed you well. :-)
welcomewithopenmind 4 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
●▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬●
.......and among you is he who is returned to the most decrepit [old] age so that he knows, after [once having] knowledge, nothing. And you see the earth barren, but when We send down upon it rain, it quivers and swells and grows [something] of every beautiful kind.
●▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩ w w w .q u r a n . c o m ۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬●
welcomewithopenmind 4 months ago
●▬▬▬▬▬ஜ۩۞۩ஜ▬▬▬▬▬●
۩ O People, if you should be in doubt about the Resurrection, then [consider that] indeed, We created you from dust, then from a sperm-drop, then from a clinging clot, and then from a lump of flesh, formed and unformed - that We may show you. And We settle in the wombs whom We will for a specified term, then We bring you out as a child, and then [We develop you] that you may reach your [time of] maturity. And among you is he who is taken in [early] death, .............
welcomewithopenmind 4 months ago
Praise Allah!
Allah created John Piper.
John Piper by the mere factor of existing is giving glory to Allah. The better John Piper's arguments the more glorifying of Allah.
Praise Allah, bitches !!!
wellsbranchdude 5 months ago
@wellsbranchdude Well Allah doesn't sound very nice to me if his people use curse words...
Sounds like a false God to me.
Jesus Christ is the saviour of the world.
And him and the father are the creator.
I say this to you out of love that you may one day know the truth!
John 8:32-Then you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
MRocca1993 5 months ago
@MRocca1993 There is not a shred of evidence for the salvation story. If you don`t agree, show me ONE piece of irrefutable evidence. Thank you .
ndzoko 4 months ago
@wellsbranchdude Praise allah bitches????? LOL
Our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ told us to know the tree from its fruit, so if you are the fruit of your "fake prophet" Muhamad then we can know what kind of person Muhamad was.
So thank you for showing your true color and Muahamd's true color as well!
legendarygoast 4 months ago
Notice how he can't say that informing yourself about the facts will help, since the facts are against him. Instead it's all about adopting various denial mechanisms that work on emotion and suppress critical thinking. Very telling. Anything that requires that much mental effort to maintain belief in is almost certainly untrue. You don't see physicists having to say "Now when we doubt the existence of gravity, search your heart." The better answer is "When you have doubts, listen to them."
kosk11348 5 months ago
@kosk11348 Your response is very telling. You have completely missed the point. He's right to say that pure critical thinking can only take you so far in regards to knowing God. God is not the same kind of thing as gravity. Gravity is impersonal and created, but God is personal and uncreated and also non-physical. When you are dealing with personal beings like God and humans, you not only need to facts, but you most importantly need personal trust (faith).
TelosQualia 5 months ago
@TelosQualia Faith is not a virtue. True things do not need to be supported by faith, only untrue things do. Faith is the admission that a thing cannot be justified on its own merits.
kosk11348 5 months ago
@kosk11348 Do you have any evidence of this? You are just asserting things. I think you are mixing up different types of 'faith'. There is blind faith, which is believing something because it makes you feel good (or some other non-truth seeking reason), even though you know there is no evidence for it. I would agree with your comment in that case. But, Christian faith, is more like the trust in something you know is (most likely) true and good. Scientists use this type of trust all the time.
TelosQualia 5 months ago
@TelosQualia Christian faith IS blind faith.
Scientists do not use "this type of trust" as you say. They use experimentation and independently testable evidence to demonstate that something is correct, before they accept it as proved.
Christians believe things because the bible says so.
"Faith is the great cop-out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Faith is belief in spite of, even perhaps because of, the lack of evidence." Richard Dawkins.
Darwinsman 3 months ago
This sound a lot like what William Lane Craigs says about the witness of the Spirit and the role of him.
aengs115 7 months ago
amazing!
und3rdog4jc 10 months ago
What an answer... amazing.
pacouli 10 months ago
I think it is good to doubt...
ndjarnag 1 year ago
@ndjarnag ...until it consumes your heart.
StevieWonder501 11 months ago
What was this from? Were there more questions and answers....and can you download this entire service from desiringgod? thanks
-michael
mikeisi 1 year ago