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From: DanHannanMEP
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  • God Bless Daniel Hannan and God Bless all of our cousins, friends and allies in the United Kingdom of GREAT Britain!

  • "The NHS is a success"

    If contributing to the bankrupting of your country and guaranteeing low survival rates for every major cancer is a success...you may be sold some timeshares in Zimbabwe in the near future.

    "And how can he serious thingk that spending more on education and being nicer in foreign policy are bad things."

    No one argues those are bad things. They argue they are ineffective things. There is zero correlation between spending on education and quality.

  • "The NHS is a success"

    If contributing to the bankrupting of your country and guaranteeing low survival rates for every major cancer is a success...you may be sold some timeshares in Zimbabwe in the near future.

    "And how can he serious thingk that spending more on education and being nicer in foreign policy are bad things."

    No one argues those are bad things. They argue they ineffective things. There is zero correlation between spending on education and quality.

  • l just don't believe what l'm saying : Sean is right

  • @kyryako Spending more on education doesn't mean better education . . . Trust me i'm 17 and if i have a new laptop , building , textbook i don't become any more intellectual

  • Ha his arguement is absurd. The usa is not respected and honoured in the world. And how can he serious thingk that spending more on education and being nicer in foreign policy are bad things. America would be more respected if it did all of the things he said it shouldn't do.

  • He mentions the "two-term limit" being ignored by FDR? The twenty-second Amendment to the United States Constitution was ratified in 1951, up until this point it was by convention rather than constitution that most presidents did not seek a third term (Ulysses S. Grant did unsuccessfully). Nothing wrong with the precedent prior to the XXII Amendment but nothing necessarily wrong with FDR ignoring the two-term limit?

  • Guys like Hannity and O'rielly are offensive on so many levels. In the interview with Moore, O'rielly's reply to the question about sending troops to Iraq was the president got bad info, he made a mistake!!!!???!!

    If Obama so much as scratches himself, fox noise is onto it. That is so fair and balanced.

  • you're right, hannity and o'reilly are terrible reporters, and i wouldn't call them such... more like entertainers. BUT when it comes to spending, they have it right on the nail. they don't realize that wars are wrong because of the economic factor, but they do realize something's wrong.

    i believe more in ron paul and daniel hannan. not anyone crazy like hannity or obama. that's right. i think they're the same.

  • Come on it is made to happen the world economy is going to colapse BY DESIGN! The question is are the masses going to allow these people who have created the problem pretend to fix it or are they going to stop complying with this nonsense?

  • This is a great video because it touches on a very important issue. The founders fathers of America were learned men who spent much of their lives studying government during the enlightenment period. Whenever I bring up the Constitution as a reason against a certain government action, people respond to me "but that was over 200 years ago, it's 2009". If anything, there's been a decrease in the understanding of civics amongst the general public since the founding of America.

  • Sorry panzmeyer, I now realize you weren't addressing me, however my comment stands.

  • I assume you were addressing me panzmeyer. What has ratings and popularity got to do with anything. Hannity is a misguided, delusional, hypocritical right wing extremist. Blokes like Hannity appeal to the great unwashed , nuckle dragging, slack jawed, mouth breathers of this world. There just happens to be a lot of them.

  • Ever wonder what happens when a country goes broke? There would be a sudden stop in many non-essensial government functions. Military reduced to way below even protecting it's own country. Health care is done, except for maybe the heads of state and other people of more 'value' than you. Inflationn is rampant. You can barely afford your food let alone an actual home. Crime is rapant because you can't afford police and ... well imagine hell. But, at least you had your 'free' operations. gratz.

  • If the USA and its poddle the UK stopped their military adventurism, think of all that money that could be used to build up the social fabric. But then the financial/military industrial complex would suffer a huge drop in profits from the death business. Funny little old Cuba has one of the best health care in the world. It was the arms race that busted the former Soviet Union.

  • I agree with ending the empirialism, but I don't think we are going to agree on what is the best way to improve 'social fabric'. Government just grows until it can't sustain itself. After all there really is no government just men, building, guns and so forth. They are given powers that others do not have, and what do men with power want? More power. I'm not asking for reduction in gov size, it's like trying to vote to change the laws of physics, but slowing the growth for my childrens sake.

  • Yes, the problem with modern government is accountability and being open. Today's politicians are all 'professional'. They are out of touch with the 'demos' and in the UK recently we saw the exposer of their corruptness and greed. This type of 'democracy' is a shame but rampant unbridled fremarket Friedman type capitalism will not be the solution. The planet gets raped for profit not for use so as a species we may be hard pressed to survive!!

  • Hannan, I hope your slimy arse kissing of the extreme American right pays off, since at this rate you're going to be chased out of Britain.

  • your are so right!

  • Try to replace Brown's name with Bush's.

  • Does ANYONE even watch Hannity anymore?

  • Check out his ratings! What an idiotic statement.

  • Oh, THAT'S an intelligent criticism, VanDoodah! It nauseates you that two men agree with each other in an intelligent conversation?

  • "We are coming from your future". Gave me chills.

  • Now there's a tory!

    If you'd like to have people of principle in power give this man a vote. He's clearly not merely a careerist aparatchik like that scary Miliband guy.

  • Hannan quote from this video:

    "If you could say it's gone into.. getting the banks lending again.. I suspect you and I would still have been against it."

    They care more for their DOGMA than they do for the British and American people.

  • Hannon confidently declares that "you cannot spend your way out of recession." But the facts have proven him wrong because the British economy is now growing again. The TRUTH is--you cannot CUT your way out of recession as Hannity would take the opportunity to do.

  • so you spent yourself into bankruptcy, but at least you have your funny government numbers which show growth for a quarter or two.

    mission accomplished.

  • We're not bankrupt. And what do you mean by "funny government numbers?" Look, these loons on this video are against government spending on principle whatever the benefits of spending or the consequences of not spending during this global recession. They're trying to make political capital out of this global recession as though Obama and Brown are to blame when THEY'RE the ones who are spending money just to fix the sinking ship they find themselves on.

  • look at how GDP and CPI(which GDP is adjusted for) are calculated and you'll know what I mean. plus, monetary inflation inflates GDP immediatly but takes a while to hit CPI, so in these times GDP is useless all the more.

    the "loons" here are not against government spending on what it is supposed to do.

    but spending for the sake of speking and bailout out failing companies is not going to help. you're just moving numbers from one entity(company) to another(state, "bad bank").

  • If these loons aren't against govrnment spending on what it's supposed to do, as you say, what IS it supposed to do? And who should decides what it's supposed to do?

  • you are british, right? then I can't answer that for you.

    for the US that is spelled out pretty good in the US constitution.

    but unless you're a proponent of a communist state I guess running banks and auto makers is not one of the things a government is supposed to do.

  • myrelative. YOU'RE the one who tried to defend these loons by saying that they're not against government spending on what it's SUPPOSED to do. What IS that? They clearly don't think the world collapsing around them is a problem. So, nobody does anything and the worlds banking system collapses.. What other good things happen next in your Utopian fantasy?

  • I know what I said, but the discussion what the government should do is kind of misplaced here. we can discuss all day long if the government should run hospitals or not, but we're on to a whole different level with the government running auto makers and banks. and I think we agree that those shouldn't be run by the government.

    unless you're some kind of communist.

    so why do you need a list of what the government is supposed to do in my opinion?

  • "..so why do you need a list of what the government is supposed to do in my opinion?

    Because you said that these idiots AREN'T against government spending on what it's "supposed" to be spent on. What IS that?

  • do you assume I can look in the mind of every commenter here?

    maybe I should have phrased it more clearly: just because these "loons" are critisizing THIS spending doesn't mean they're against all government spending.

    most of them probably want a more limited government than you do, but that's a legitimate discussion.

    if the state should run banks and auto makers is not one.

  • just because you bought into that BS that no big company can fail or the world will melt down doesn't make it so.

    the guys in the US came zu with "a really big number" (quote) pulled out of their asses and said if to do XYZ they don't get it everything will fall apart. then they got the money and did a completely different thing with it.

    if the debt on the books of the banks would have destroyed the world: the debt is still there. on the books of the state.

  • sorry, something got messed up.

    "US came zu with" = "US came up with"

    "and said if to do XYZ they don't get it" = "to do XYZ and if they don't get it"

  • I absolutely can't stand Hannity and Fox in general. But Dan Hannon MEP SE England = Win

  • Still a good interview though.

  • Mr.Hannan I know I'm not alone when I say. I wish America had more friends like you.

  • I just discovered this guy(Daniel Hannan) approx one hr ago. He's good, I mean, Very Very Good. I gonna watch more of his vids.

  • "you know and we know and you know that we know" LOL!!!

  • Daniel Hannan for President!

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  • I have been jerking off over this man's clips all week. He is the sexiest hunk I have ever seen.

  • that's the creepiest comment I've read all year, and I got a chuckle out of it.

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  • Cuba has one of the highest abortion rates in the world, which could explain its relatively low infant mortality rate. Furthermore, many pregnant Mexican women cross the border illegally to give birth in the U.S. and in general many illegals don't receive prenatal care to avoid deportation. Undocumented immigration policies are another discussion, but it is unfair to compare the U.S. and Cuba since noone seems to want to emmigrate to the socialist paradise of the Carribean for some reason.

  • Oh, Hannan - I want your cock SO BAD!

  • Bush spent alot, no doubt there, but Obama's spending makes bush look like a penny pincher by comparison. IN Bush's last term as president, he ran up a budget deficit of $450 billion, a substantial sum to be sure. I n Obama's first 100 days, however, Obama started off by passing a budget with a deficit 4x larger, at $1.8 Trillion, or $1,800 billion for those of you that don't comprehend the concept of trillion

  • Democrats controlling Congress for MOST of last 16 years were the MAIN reason for financial problems. If you knew the TRUE history of USA, you would know that every conservative era has made it better, and every liberal era has made it worse. It was FOUNDED on conservative principles. Read the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, and Bill of Rights, CAREFULLY. End of story.

  • I don't whether I'd go as far as calling them liars but it was definitely misleading.

    You're absolutely right though, he kisses his and the American publics arse in order to persuade ppl of his ideas. There is currently no political party that I know of that has ideas to scrap the NHS, nor are their any ppl i know of who would want that to happen in favour of privatized healthcare.

  • @bencorgan

    Absolute tosh. The NHS has been going down the pan for years and you know It. They have way to many managers and consultants combined with lethargic staff that would not last a week in the private sector. Most of them need a rocket up their backsides and kicked off the gravy train. Why not tell the American posters about the MRA bug that infests most of our filthy hospitals? And again, you know it. Hey America, this is what you have coming. Socialism and feminism will destroy you

  • bettyswolloks,

    Absolute tosh is not a logical argument and your arguments about the NHS are vague. The NHS suffered from years of under investment in the Thatcher years and has now come out quite well, indeed it is a much superior service to that which they have in the US (The US is actually behind Cuba in infant mortality). You also clearly have no idea what the MRSA bug actually is. Read something other than the Daily Mail

  • Yes yes yes, as I suspected, your another gravy train NHS employee, Regardless, thanks for the correction on the MRSA bug that infects our filthy hospitals, much appreciated.

  • I am not an NHS employee (nor do I own 'another gravy train NHS employee' but your mangled English is neither here nor there). However if I was, I could drop out of this 'gravy train' to earn more in the private sector doing less work. Also, MRSA has more to do with over-prescribing antibiotics than filth.

  • Who said anything about you owning "another gravy train"? Which post are you reading? What are you smoking?

    I assume your reference to mangled English is my user name? Its called spoonerism. Or maybe you want to detract from your nonsense about the NHS and you supposedly not being an NHS employee by looking for grammatical errors? The NHS is crap and you know it. You can try and sell the Americans your BS it cuts no ice with me. I know how bad it is.

  • Unsurprisingly your assumption is wrong (anyone else noticing a theme?). Do you know the difference between you're and your?

    I notice once again you ignore any points of substance and just re-iterate that the "NHS is crap". Maybe you could enlighten someone as to how you "know" anything.

  • April 09 health watchdog

    Twenty-one NHS trusts failed yesterday to pass the hygiene test that was set by the health watchdog for England to establish whether they can be registered as safe to treat patients.

    The Care Quality Commission (CQC), which took over this week as the "super-regulator" for health and social care, said they may be fined or forced to close wards or departments if they do not quickly come up to scratch. The trusts were given between one and eight months to comply.

  • Industry focus

    NHS slammed for financial mismanagement...

    The National Health Service (NHS) will cost every household in the UK £4,500 annually for the next three years after billions of pounds have been squandered due to financial mismanagement, according to reports.

    Far too many negative reports to post and from the NHS governing bodies no less. Combined with my own personal knowledge and experience of the sham.

    Yes there are quite a few good hospitals but way too many bad ones

  • The second report you mention came from Reform, so I'll treat that with a pinch of salt if you don't mind. On the former I would like to know who set these standards. Was it the managers of the NHS and what was the research they used? I do agree somewhat with you on the managers in the NHS. The lack of medical/scientific knowledge that some of them have could be damaging.

  • Without dragging this out lets just say that you feel the NHS is doing a good job obviously for your own reasons. I disagree, It costs way too much its grossly inefficient and with the failings highlighted above, reform or otherwise, IMO its simply a major drain on the tax payer for an overall piss poor performance staffed by many that no longer give a toss as long as they get paid. Much the same as most government employees.

    I agree that the MRSA bug is only partially caused by poor hygene,

  • Agreed that this has dragged on too long. Do I think the NHS is doing a good job? Relatively, yes. Could it be improved? Once again, yes. Is it grossly inefficient? I haven't seen any human endeavour which isn't. Will private health care fix this? Evidence would point to no with the inefficiencies the private sector has brought into electricity and trains and the pathetic state of health care for the majority of US citizens.

  • I think there should be an option to opt out of the NHS. If you chose private healthcare then you shouldn't have to pay anything towards the NHS.

    Social and Private healthcare can easily co-exist.

  • Comment removed

  • Hannan's summary of the founding of the USA is so eloquent....

    He's my new political hero, he's a sensible, moderate libertarian.

  • Why do people think that the only two choices are no-rules dominance for big corporations or 1980s USSR?

    Seriously, how does that dichotomy even begin to make sense? Isn't breaking up companies to avoid monopolies a capitalistic thing to do? It was in my high school economics class - we were taught how great and capitalistic (read: non-Russian) competition was and that it needs to be preserved. AT&T was the example, if I recall. What changed?

  • Hannity is a complete Shill and a moron.

    Hanna, you're on the money.

    But Hannity does not know that there is NO left and right in politics in America. BUSH would be doing the same as Obama.

  • So england is collapsing all of a sudden?

  • Daniel Hannan for President! Yes. I know he isn't a naturally born citizen of the US. But then again, neither is Barack Obama and he is President.

  • Clearly with all this we have to support family run companies. Government run services and publicly run and especially multi-national corporations are bad for democracy and peoples freedoms. They all lead to price manipulation and anti-competitive practices, overcharging, too much choice based on a theme, little innovation just imitation. I'd rather wait in line and get a lesser effective drug than be denied any reasonably effective drug at all.

  • Here in the US with Barak Husain Obama we have a Marxist Socialist dictator who is waging war upon the foundations of our Constitution. His is in bed with the sycophantic media that is controlled by General Electric like NBC, MSNBC, CNBC that endorsed his run for the presidency and did everything they could to persuade the publics vote. We are in for a long drawn out battle as Husain Obama pushes his socialist policies and platform onto the people of the USA.

  • Japan has spent the last twenty years trying to spend it's way out of a deep recession. I don't think anyone could say it succeeded, quite the reverse.

    Support HR 1207. 143 cosponsors on the Hill, 75 to go. The Fed is shitting it's pants.

  • I don't think Hannity really understands Hannan's positions or the predicament the UK is in. Hannan I think agrees that smaller government is better, but his main concern is that the big government in the UK has been created by unelected officials.

  • hughugh, listen to the damn guy. He's telling us not to do what the uk has done, which is what Obama is getting ready to do.

  • Read what I said. Hannan thinks, as I think, that smaller government is better. The problem in the UK and the EU goes beyond that, however. They have big government, and the people who are keeping the government big aren't elected officials, but unelected bureaucrats. Elected officials are accountable to voters; if they make the government big and the people don't like it, the people can vote them out. No such luck with unelected bureaucrats.

  • I have been borrowing my way out of debt all my life... Is there some other way?

  • Sounds like Ron Paul.

    Hannan could teach most politicians in the U.S. and guys like Hannity about the Founding Fathers and our Constitution.

    You can replace Browns name with both Bush and Obama.

  • 61% taxes, holy shit

  • "61% taxes, holy shit"

    This years estimate for Tax Freedom Day is 14th of May, this means that for 134 days of the year (from 1st of Jan), every penny earned by the average UK resident will have been taken to support government expenditures.

    If the government deficit is factored in, Tax Freedom Day does not come until 25th of June

    Yep, and that does not include the insidious inflation tax.

    Yippee, only 32 more days of slavery before I start earning for myself and my family!

    Value for money?

  • ... and the 61% ONLY covers income taxes. Iit does NOT include 18-22% VAT you pay with your after-tax money.

  • Go Dan

  • Amen, amen, amen! ALL politicians need run out of town on a rail! If it were THEIR money we were to spend we'd all be starving to death. We're TIRED of them spending OUR money, throwing OUR money after bad. What is true in Britain is true here in the U.S. and I APPLAUD Daniel for having the brass balls to stand up to those idiots. Most of us are gutless.

  • We need more good men like Daniel Hannan to step into leadership roles!

  • Dan Hannan for PM!!!

  • thanks Daniel, i wish being in your election area and able voting for you

  • Gordon Brown and Barack Obama are the same.

  • the same could be said of George Bush's spending habits too.

    All of DC is in denial about all the borrowing and spending.

  • Well said Mr. Hannan...I always enjoy your videos and wish our congress was made of people like you on both sides of the aisle

  • Love Daniel Hannan. The people in power now are far too totalitarian. Obama is being lead around by the powers behind the throne. We haven't had free markets with regards to healthcare in decades since the FDA criminalizes anyone from publishing the medicinal benefits of fruits, vegetables, herbs and other products that have no side effects. Most Americans are not for these bailouts or corporate takeovers, this is all the Obama administration.

  • mmm, interesting, when Ron Paul says the same kind of things, Sean Hannity is not nearly as nice and makes fun of him.

    Ann Colter did it, I want to see Sean Hannity say "Ron Paul was right"

  • I just recieved a signed letter from Daniel Hannan, this man understands the plight of all who adopt big government policies, I am so happy that he is being listened to here in America. He is a voice of reason, and an eloquent orater and advocate for liberty through small and subordinate federal government. God Bless Dan Hannan, and God save the free nations! P.S. Just get the hell out of the EU!lol

  • 5 stars

  • Other than saying Newt Gingrich was a great hero of his (anyone who suggests a mandatory death sentence for a second offence of carrying 50g+ of cannabis is no hero of mine), I agreed with almost everything he said in this video.

  • dan is such a good speaker! however i do believe from this we could learn a lot more from countries like Norway, which is part socialist part capitalist. I think the American way is to far towards capitalism. although the NHS does have its faults i would rather have the choice of free or private healthcare than what they have in USA.

  • Please do more research. When has the government EVER done a better job than the private market.

  • The U.S is far too socialist? Sweden has lower capital gains and corporate taxes than us. Since Sherman Anti-Trust (1890), Federal Reserve Act (1913), Sixteenth Amendment (1913), the FDR gold seizures (1933), The New Deal, the Great Society, we are being killed by all this "free market capitalism"! Between local ordinances, property taxes, environmental regulations, sin taxes, death taxes, the bail-outs, bank and auto nationalizations, we are just begging for socialism to come and save us!

  • Socialism is slavery. It is state monopoly of production, those who can't own property they are slaves.

    Capitalism is the right to property and produce of one's own labour.

    Second, since ~1913 the US is engaged in cronyism, not capitalism, it is rule of 'elites', who own banks that control government, and through it, the people. What needs be done is an audit of the Federal Reserve and have it closed. And those found guilty of crimes, must prosecuted in the highest and assets seized.

  • infowars much?

  • It won't play. Arrrgh!!  :(

  • Brilliant interview. I was enjoying every minute of it. God Bless Daniel Hannan!

  • Hannity is so funny, always trying to squeeze what he wants to hear out of his guests. Great interview, though.

  • Let's pray to God that this abomination can be reversed in time. That's all we can do.

  • God will not help you unless you help yourself first.

  • It's not socialism that we're facing. It's FASCISM.

  • Who gives a fuck, its un-AMERICAN

  • These politicians are controlled by the eliminati which are alien like things.Sooner people realise this the better.Hence all the crap decisions they make....they want WAR.

  • usa TAKE A GOOD,GOOD look at the UK today...because thats the way your going.

    i know this because i live here in the USA..

  • Sean Hannity is a damn Hypocrite. I like Glenn Beck a lot more than this RINO.

    Glad to hear Mr. Hannan spreads the same message over the UK.

  • Hannity was abused as a child.

  • I watch Fox News not all their shows are good news. I am a big fan of Sean Hannity and Glenn Beck

  • We need someone like Daniel Hannan to lead the Republican party away from the progressive philosophy that they have followed since GHWBush was president. Our two parties in the US are left wing and far left wing.

  • Hannan is a real gentleman - and a consummate politician.

    Accordingly, he either cannot say, will not say or does not recognize that Obama, unlike FDR, does not mean America well. Obama is a principled anti-Western Marxist; FDR was a liberal establishment elite w/a bad econ model. FDR joined Churchill in the great struggle to save the West; Obama would have appeased Japan and left Britain to die her slow death. FDR was a patriot; Obama is a radical w/a primal hatred for the nation he leads.

  • that was well put. I could not have not said it better

  • I love this guy!! Even though he disagrees with some or all of the current US policies he is respectful. When he speaks he is polished and knowledgable. He admires America and does not feel the need to "bash it" (refreshing, to say the least)! America could take a great lesson from this guy. The warnings he gives are real because he is living in a system which were are heading toward.

  • Dan, Most people, including me, respect you VERY much. Anyone here in USA that does not agree is a demtard libtard and they should just drink the Kool Aid. Keep fighting Dan !!!!!

  • From 5:24 to 6:31 is what most Americans do not understand.

  • Way not to fall into this idiots left / right paradigm. He wanted you to go after Dems, cause thats his job and you didnt. You know just like the rest of us well informed people, that the one party rule is the Dems and the Reps. Stop voting for these two.... I mean one party...

  • Sean Hannity is such a simpleton. He should know that we didn't have free market capitalism under G.W. Bush. How come they keep giving this guy a show while Judge Andrew Napolitano gets an internet show.

  • If Sean Hannity had anything worthwhile to say about civil liberties, freedom and foreign policy then maybe he would be more credible.

    Unfortunately, his platform consists of vilifying groups who he doesn't agree with, supporting the Patriot Act and cheer leading interventionism and foreign wars.

    I'm glad that he has DH on his show, hopefully he'll catch a clue.

  • Mr. Hannan has a very engaging way with words & understands the up & down sides of each system.

    There were folks screaming about the spending but, by comparison, the new administration has put all in the dust. Mr Hannan is spot-on re: dissent & people need to understand that we all need to toss monkey wrenches, regardless of who is in office. Right now, all seems government controlled here in the US.

  • this video is not working for me.... :(

  • Mr. Hannan has a point when he says Britain is, by comparison, in much worse shape as a country than we are in America. However, America has several key structural weaknesses that make it's prospects look much bleaker than he realizes. First, Britain really rid itself of the crushing burden of empire years ago, with some stragglers. The US has not. Second, the US dollar is about to go down as the reserve currency of the world. Third, the US is capable of spending on scale beyond that of Britain.

  • Britain is as much an empire now as the yankees are. they still give payments yearly to formal colonies, which is as much of an economic impact as the yanks have. You are right about the US dollar though.

  • The "crushing burden of empire"? My take on empire is that, when run properly (as the British Empire assuredly was), an empire gives one greater robustness; indeed the retreat from Empire was roughly contemporary in the UK with the rise of Socialism. Perhaps if Her Majesty were still in charge in India, in Canada, in the multitude of Dominions that the British Empire once held, perhaps then Great Britain might still be great, instead of being on the verge of becoming a mere province of the EU.

  • An empire needs keep expanding and plundering all the time for the sake of itself, or else it has been proven to be unsustainable for long. The Brits would have been overthrown (and were overthrown, actually) from many of their colonies.

    Great Britain would still be great if it would have opted for freedom rather than socialism. Just like the rest of Europe and the United States.

  • Thankyou for your response, but I think I have to disagree with you. The only colony that actively overthrew us was, funnily enough, the United States - and after we were gone they had a civil war. Everywhere else - India, Cyprus, Ireland, etc. we left for domestic political reasons, namely that empire was suddenly un-PC. And after we were gone, they all had civil wars.

    It wasn't necessary to keep expanding the Empire to keep it alive, just to keep trading with it - which the EU now prevents.

  • Well, couldn't it be that running an empire causes neglect and problems at home?

    Of course countries have civil wars after a revolution, there is a power vacuum and many want to be in charge. The American civil war however, was unnecessary and not a direct consequence of independence but it was a move by Benjamin Franklin to strengthen the executive powers and deprive the states of their right to secede.

    I concede that I am not very familiar with British history. Thank you for your response.

  • You may have a point - it could be the empire that brought Britain down - but I suspect otherwise; it seems to me that what brought Britain down was socialism and incompetent governance.

    You are right about the civil wars.

    I would respond more fully but I'm trying to debug a program I've written and it keeps segfaulting, so please excuse my brevity and departure. 'Twas pleasant conversing with you :)

  • You too. Someone polite on here, for a change :)

  • Can I just update to say that I fixed the segfaults? Not that anyone cares, but anyway.

  • when was the british empire ever great. you talk about it as if it were some lovely idea where people joined and you helped them. you murdered innocent people to gain an empire, took conrol of land that was not yours through murder and wars. introduced your laws and tried to kill everything which made the countries you occupied unique. you also say you left ireland for political reasons?

  • Alas, you have been 'got at' by the apologist lobby. The fact of the matter is that we ran those places much better than they ran themselves. Look at Zimbabwe. Look at Malawi. Look at St. Vincent & the Grenadines (which sounds like it should be a cheesy 80s pop band, but is actually a group of islands in the Caribbean) which is now practically communist.

    And we didn't exactly "murder innocent people", we adhered to stricter honour-rules than our opponents which is why we almost lost in Boer.

  • ye didnt murder innocent people? id love to know which fairy cloud you live on if you belive that. what do you think happened, you marched into ireland and we said here ye go lads, look after our country now and we all lived happily ever after in the unicorn fields. did you ever hear of the penal laws? or the war of independance? when we eventually got rid of ye from most of my country, not exactly political reasons why you left.

  • We adhered to the accepted rules of war. Unlike some I could mention *cough* IRA *cough*.

    If the political will had been there, you wouldn't have 'got rid of' us. It was just more politically acceptable to retreat from Empire, cut Ireland in two and let the two parts fight each other - then it wasn't our problem. That's what happens, when you retreat from Empire.

  • Perhaps the Germans would have run England better, and you'd be in better economic shape now. The fact is a country's people ought to be able to determine their fate, and not with the benevolence and wisdom of Britain, USA, Soviets, Russians, etc. Get out of Ireland!

  • Yes, but the Germans didn't defeat England in war (despite having lower ethical standards than us). Whereas we won in Ireland. It may seem disingenuous now, and certainly any nation seeking to /expand/ its empire in the modern age would be frowned upon, but maintaining an empire created in an age when that was normal, surely, must be valid?

    Again, we stuck to the rules of war.

    Of course, Ireland is a special case, for the following reason: Pactio Olisipiensis Censenda Est (to quote Hannan).

  • Work on your Latin, Aychip. Aber, die begrundung der Englander beginnt mit schwert und blut.

  • Bist du sicher, woran du sprichst? (Doch kann ich auch Deutsch sprechen!)

    Es ist nicht mein Latein, sondern Hannans. Ich kann nicht Latein.

    Im frühere Geschichte gab es überall Blut. Die Engländer waren deswegen nicht anders.

    How's that for you?

  • Sehr nett!

  • did i say i support the ira??? also you obviously dont know what the penal laws were.

    dont know why you started talking about this topic anyway but while we are, since when is execution sticking to the rules of war? you may want to believe that your country did not act in this way, but truth hurts. the fact is your country illegally occupied foreign countries and killed millions as a result. if you think these countries were better off under british rule, just look at the famine and penal laws

  • ... which were a struggle between competing variant strains of Christianity, itself a strain of the virus known as "religion". If this virus could be got out of government, these kinds of problems would not occur.

    Disestablish the CoE, get religion out of public life because theism should be a private thing; organised religion always ends up forcing itself on others.

    Then Empire will work again.

  • it was more about control than religion. change ppl from catholics and turn them into protestants and make them more allegiant to the church of england and thus they will be less likely to revolt against the head of the church. also it gave power to the protestant land lords who came here during the plantations. i agree religion should be private and i am an atheist myself but your great empire was nothing great at all and whats this about 'the empire will work again' wat do you mean by this bs

  • What I mean is, if we were able to trade freely with the Commonwealth, and if we were running our own affairs responsibly (which we aren't right now, of course), then the peoples of those nations would tend to support closer ties. We wouldn't /rule/ them, but we would certainly look after them, advise them, be their voice on the world stage. After all, who listens to the Prime Minister of Malawi? (Formerly known as Nyasaland, of course!)

  • Oh come now. This is nonsense. If Britain is one the verge of becoming irrelevant and a subsidiary region of the EU, they have only themselves to blame for becoming Socialists.

    Empire is not a solution to anything, and the British Empire was NOT well run, even by imperial standards, and Britain could nor should have stayed in India or anywhere else. Colonialism and mercantilism (the economic underpinnings of empire) have been refuted.

  • I agree that it is the fault of the Socialists that we have lost Empire. But I am still convinced that until the rise of Socialism and its detrimental effect on the UK, the Empire was perfectly tractable. Socialism cost us Empire, it cost us economic robustness, and now NuLiebour are about to cost us our sovereignty.

    It's enough to make you sick, isn't it?

  • It certainly is. Britain will come to its senses one day, just as the US will, but the question is, how bad will things be on the day that that happens?

    The British Empire, like all empires throughout all of history, was doomed. Mercantilism and colonialism are poor economic models that hurt economic progress. Besides, the Empire was costly- occupying India, and regularly suppressing bloody insurrections, cost the nation more than it could have ever gained.

  • I'm not so sure... tea was worth a /hell/ of a lot at the time... there was a whole dockyard in London just for the East India Company.

    Anyway, look beyond India just for a moment, and ask why we left Rhodesia? After all, the subsequent history of South Rhodesia (as Zimbabwe) wasn't exactly brilliant, was it?

  • Honestly, I am not familiar enough with the (dismantling) of the British Empire to comment on Rhodesia, so all I can say is, why were you ever IN Rhodesia? My only thoughts are this: all empires end, and they are expensive, dangerous, and hard to manage. They frequently undermine freedom at home and abroad, and their collapse usually leads to blood.

    Some might comment that it is the aftereffects of colonialism that led to so much chaos.

  • Socialism came off the back of two world wars with a million plus dead and many millions more suffering as a result, with most of our major cities blown to bits and our treasury in mounting debt. Add to that our Industrial base was on the decline which mounted to high unemployment and thus poverty. The US suffered greatly during their civil war but has never seen such domestic problems as we have over the last 70 years, no wonder The Labour Party became the Peoples Party.

  • Socialism was taking hold of the world long before the Second World War. The US, England, Italy, Japan, China, Germany, and the USSR and all of their related satellites were hurtling toward, or already, socialist states.

    It is undoubtedly true that England suffered greatly during the war, but that hardly suffices to explain the utter failure of socialism as an economic system and its persistence in Britain.

  • We was better off when we had Nationally owned companies which oversaw our basic needs. The demise of British Telecom, British Gas, British Rail and others has seen the British Public pay more for our God Given Rights such as Water. To take a train in Britain today from London to Glasgow is so much money than it's cheaper to fly..The EU and their forced capitalism 'Competition Rules' have destroyed this Nation.

  • What is this socialist twaddle? Government run monopolies are disasters. And even if British Rail still existed they couldn't do a darned thing about the cost of transit- all they could do is interfere with the price charged, which, as any student of economics knows, leads to shortages. The costs are merely socialized onto the rest of non-using citizens. Finally, the enterprise becomes inefficient and wasteful because they lack competition.