Ingmar Lazar (13 years old) plays Fantasie Op.49 part I

[RuXiangShiJia]

I think of interpretation as akin to acting. An actor needs to put himself into the part he's playing, but at the same time be consistent in his role. A musician needs to put his emotions into the piece, but without understanding the intents of the composer, his interpretation is sapped of meaning. To say that you need "life experience" (whatever that means) to understand or create a great piece of music is like saying there are no child actors who have played moving roles.

[RuXiangShiJia]

Lazar will certainly improve with age, but he does have a precocious understanding of rhythm, which I, like organman, believe is the most important aspect of an interpretation of a piece of music.

I think of interpretation as akin to acting. An actor needs to put himself into the part he's playing, but at the same time be consistent in his role. A musician needs to put his emotions into the piece, but without understanding the intents of the composer, his interpretation is sapped of meaning.

[RuXiangShiJia]

I had fun reading the back-and-forth between organman and thunder, and I have to put my two cents in. I think that organman is a bit of a snob and an asshole, but he obviously knows much more about what he's talking about than thunder, who I think is distracted by his ideals and ignorant. I think that organman should know by now that most people don't have as subtle an understanding as he does, and that arguing with someone like thunder is futile and evinces some immaturity on organman's part.

[roerbakmix11]

how can someone, who never met each other, have an argue about something they believe... Insane, but quite funny to read though :)

[organman52]

You are out of your mind.

[downtoearthwildguy]

This organman fellow is really dumb.

[thunder1909]

Agreed, take a look at his comments page, I'm sure you'll find quite a number of people agree with you.

[organman52]

For me, a performer's greatest attribute is her/his understanding of rhythm. Ingmar's playing reveals absolute command of this aspect of the music, regardless of his age. His age is irrelevant. what's more, he has the technique to do exactly what Chopin's music dictates. The most wonderful thing about Ingmar's playing is that the feeling of the music comes through, without him 'adding' anything to it. This is a true artist. He has great integrity. He puts the composer first, not himself.

[thunder1909]

Rhythm is very important, but in Chopin it's all about the taste. All great Chopin performances are never rhythmitic, there are so many accelerandos, ritenutos, and plenty of tasteful rubatos. Ingmar has all the technique he needs for this fantasy, but he lacks in musicality. There are places I can point out later to you that I don't like, and they just show that Ingmar is unexperienced, and doesn't have the taste for Chopin--especially for such a hard piece--yet.

[thunder1909]

His age is VERY relevant. As i was saying, to compose great music, you have to have life experience and an deep emotions, thesame goes for playing music. Chopin didn't compose this Fantasie when he was 12 or 13, and if he did, it would probably differ very much, and Ingmar could pull it off effortlessly. It is a very good thing that Ingmar puts the composer in front of himself, but that is only because he has to work so hard at mastering all the concepts of this piece.

[thunder1909]

It also a bad thing to put the composer in front of yourself. Since Ingmar has no time and musical ability to bring himself out in this fantasie (because he has to master the fantasie itself first), he can't do that for now. But a great performer would learn this fantasie, keeping all the musical aspects present, but then start to sculp it into something of his own. He would find some parts the composer makred 'andante' better played 'adagio'. He would play f instead of p, or otherway around.

[thunder1909]

Don't take my examples of originality too literally, everybody is different and will do different things. Originality with all the musical aspects present is what makes ANY performance great. The composer goes first--at the start--but then you have take the lead. In his older years, Richter only brought out the composer, and left himself out of the picture when he played. This brought his performances down GREATLY, and truly, he became and uninteresting pianist, not a bad one, but very mediocre.

[organman52]

There really is no point in continuing this discussion. You believe what you believe, and I do the same. It is not my purpose to 'convert' anyone to my way of thinking, although that DID happen over the course of my 32 years of conservatory teaching.

[thunder1909]

Yes I bet it did. You told innocent students and pianists this bullshit about not putting yourself in the music, and just playing the composer. Thats the reason so many pianists fail nowdays. That's the reason so many performances nowdays are boring, and uncharacteristic. You must of fucked up a lot of people if you DID teach at a conservatory. I study under a a student of Mariya Yudina, and so I know everything that I talk about. You have SICK views on music that should be shoved and forgotten.

[organman52]

It is entirely your right to believe all of this - even though, as I have said before, you have no idea what you are talking about. I hasten to add that your English is as bad as your thoughts about music. And for the record, I never told any students 'not to put yourself in the music'. I simply taught them that without the composers and their master creations, we would be looking for another livelihood. And are we supposed to be impressed that you study with Mariya Yudina?

[organman52]

And here's something that will make your day - as a result of my poisoning the minds of students over the years, I maintain contact with over 100 alumni. In fact, some of them are my closest friends. It all started when I was the most sought-after accompanist available to them - and we GREW TOGETHER through the music, leaving all egos completely out of the picture. But according to you - you sick individual - I am nothing more than a terrorist. Stay in hell and wallow in your misery.

[thunder1909]

Are you crazy? Mariya Yudina is dead, I study with a student of hers, that was a pianist and pedagogue at the Moscow conservatory, who received her degree personally from Khachaturian. That's pretty impressive. And if you truly think that people should leave themselves out of the music, you really are a sick individual. Are you going to argue with Rachmaninoff, who seldom played his own music the way it was written down? And my knowledge of the English language is not yours to judge.

[organman52]

This 'discussion' is over.

[thunder1909]

Agreed, go hide behind your keyboard talking crap about your 'conservatory' teaching. Your lies sicken me, as you have clearly stated that you're demented with your alien views on music, and that you're just a reject and loser at everything you do. Atleast show yourself some respect and don't try to make people believe you're somebody that you aren't. Especially somebody as educated and respected as a conservatory teacher.

[organman52]

You're out of your mind.

[thunder1909]

Just stating cold, hard facts. Which happen to be that you're just a wannabe, with wrong musical views.

[organman52]

You're out of your mind.

[thunder1909]

Wow, you totally backed that comment up and gave a lot of reasons for saying it. Please organman, spare yourself the humilation and take up something else, like golf. Music doesn't seem to be working very well for you.

[3hlang]

this is one of my favourite pieces of music and you're just making me like it even more

[jsw663]

Once again, I'm hugely impressed by your performances. Undoubtedly you'll become a 1st class professional pianist once you master the details and your musical interpretation matures, because your potential is there for all to see. It's a challenge to keep the soft parts interesting throughout. The subtlety in variety of colors between p and pp means you have to play it very carefully.

[thunder1909]

Going back to your comments in the Chopin sonata, the reason the melodic parts of Chopin are faltering is because Ingmar is too young to really undersand what Chopin's music is really about. He is extreamely talented, undoubtedly, but musicality will fall in place when he gets older. Bravo Ingmar!

[organman52]

How DARE you assert that he is 'too young to really understand what Chopin's music is really about'. He already understands every detail of the music - CAN'T YOU HEAR THAT?

The fact that you use the word 'really' TWICE in the SAME SENTENCE reveals how defective your thinking is.

[thunder1909]

Dude chill out, I was just saying that for him to play Chopin THE WAY IT'S MEANT TO BE PLAYED he'd have to get some life experience, which transfers into a musicality. I'm not saying he sucks, cause he difinetly plays very well both technically and musically. Every musical aspect is there, but there isn't that special magic that comes from Chopin's music. And you can STFU about me using 'really' 2 times in a sentence, cause I don't see you with a masters degree in English or anything. Noob.

[organman52]

You have no idea how many masters degrees I have, or in what subjects. So that statement is baseless.

Beyond that, I have only this to say to you: Ingmar already has a complete grasp of EVERY SINGLE NOTE of the repertoire that he plays, from the finest detail all the way up to the largest structural aspects. He IS a professional musician ALREADY, and by your own admission, you are a hobbyist.

[thunder1909]

I understand, but having every single detail in the repetoire present isn't everything. You have to have a feel for the music, and I am not saying he doesn't feel anything when playing, I'm just saying he'll develop deeper feelings when he is older. Evgeny Kissin was even better than Ingmar at this age, but it's not until he became older, did he truly understand the music he was playing. This understanding has led him to play much better than he ever played when he was young.

[organman52]

You assert 'undoubtedly you'll become a 1st class professional pianist once you...'

NEWSFLASH - he ALREADY IS a 1st class professional, and there is NOTHING you or anyone can do to make him better. He was BORN to play the piano masterworks. How DARE you sound as if he's is need of YOUR suggestions. Pathetic.

I hasten to add that the world at large is not interested in how impressed YOU are. Again, pathetic.

[thunder1909]

NEWSFLASH TO YOU, he's 13 years old!!! And if you think there's nothing anybody can do to make him better, you are greatly mistaken. He isn't at the top, he isn't the best, and he isn't perfect. You are VERY narrow minded to think that he is the best. And I'm not suggesting anything, I'm just stating what I hear. I'm not a professional pianist or musician, and I don't want to be one. Piano is Ingmar's life, and it's more a hobby for me than anything.

[oloindafolo]

thunder ist absolutely right some pieces of classical music might not be understand bei young children like me or him

[organman52]

Are you forgetting what Mozart, Schubert and Mendelssohn had accomplished by the time they were 13?

[thunder1909]

I am truly aware of what all those composers composers had achieved. But even though the music they had wrote at that age was undeniably genius, the music was very simple, and not deep. It was not until they had grown into adults, and had gotten some life experience, were they able to write deep music. Mozart lay dying on his bed finishing the 'Lacrymosa' for his requiem, which was perhaps the most musicaly challenging and complex piece he had wrote.

[organman52]

Mendelssohn wrote MASTERPIECES when he was 12 - the three quartets for piano and strings, op. 1, 2 and 3. Not deep? Wrong. And for your information, Mozart wrote ONLY the first 8 measures of the Lacrymosa - the rest of that movement was completed by Sussmayr, his student.

[thunder1909]

No, not wrong. THERE IS NO SUBSTITUTE FOR EXPERIENCE. You can be a genius like Mendlessohn, or anybody else, but the music will not be truly deep until you can understand life. Can a 12 year old write poems and novels about something deep such as romance, war or rivalry? Music is just another language that each one of us interpret differently. Mendelssohn knew the basics of this language at 12, the nouns, verbs, adverbs, adjectives etc. He wrote using those basics. and nothing more.

[organman52]

Now it is obvious to me - you are jealous of ANYONE that can do anything that you can't do yourself. Beyond that, I shall have no further comment to your statements of unfounded nonsense.

[thunder1909]

Jealous? I had clearly stated that Mendelssohn was a genius, which in no way shows jealousy. Organman, you have to realise that it is not possible to write great works at such a young age. The works will reflect very little of you, which will be heard in the work itself. Music is not only the sound, but the mix of feelings, emotions, and stories. At the age of 12, music is only sound, and very little more, no matter how genius the composer is.

[organman52]

Mozart and Mendelssohn both wrote GREAT music before they were teenagers. While this is rare among the master composers, it is nonetheless very much the case. Let me be clear about this: geniuses are not made, they are born. Granted, their technique must grow over time, but the emotional capacity of the individual is there from the very beginning. Nowadays, thousands call themselves 'composers'. They are not. They are contrivers who have nothing better to do with their lives.

[thunder1909]

In my opinion geniuses are born as well, but just like talent, genius only takes you only so far, and you have to practice that genius over and over, which is what all the great composers have done. You are completely wrong in stating that the emotional capacity is there from the start. An 8 year old doesn't know the meaning of love, hate, contempt etc. His/hers range of emotions is quite small. While it is not thesame for a 12 year old it is still small--too small for great music.

[thunder1909]

I can understand that everybody is different in what kind emotions they experience and when, but as I said earlier, there is no subsitute for experience. NOBODY is born with emotional capacity, and only time will give you that. Maybe that capacity was great in Mendelssohn at 12 years of age, it was not enough to make his music great. I know you will argue me no matter what, but it's just how it is, just like Ingmars playing, there was plenty of room for these composers to grow.

[thunder1909]

I am not saying the music Mendelssohn had wrote at 12 years old wasn't beautiful, because it was, but that there wasn't anything behind it but genius. That is not enough. While genius is necessary, there has to be emotions behind the music. True happyness, or sadness. Mendelssohn couldn't feel stong emotions like that at that age, so he couldn't transfer any of those emotions into his music.

[organman52]

You don't have any idea what you are talking about. Mendelssohn's EARLIEST works are FULL of emotion. Do you KNOW the quartets, Op. 1, 2 and 3? If you did, you wouldn't be saying this.

[downtoearthwildguy]

Ingmar Lazar is no Mendelssohn your organman idiot.

[organman52]

You're STILL out of your mind.

[thunder1909]

You say this 13 year old boy is a genuis, and yet you critise a bloomed and matured pianist (Yundi Li). I don't understand....perhaps Ingmar plays Chopin better than the winner of the Chopin competition himself. Unbelievable.

[organman52]

Let me tell you this - the young man on this youtube has RESPECT for the music and the composer. Your idol, yundi li, only has respect for himself. And you call him 'matured' - from what? And notice - Ingmar does all of this WITHOUT a single facial contortion or waving arm. How do explain that?

[thunder1909]

So what, these expressions are usually the result of the enjoyment of the performer's music. Nothing out of the ordinary, really, some pianists do it, some don't. I see nothing wrong here, as long as it doesn't take you away from the music, it's fine. And Yundi Li does it much less than many other pianists you think are a 'failure'.

[organman52]

'Usually' ? No - they are ALWAYS the result of insecurity, egomania and complete lack of respect for the composer - you know, that individual who only wrote the music and doesn't deserve an ounce of admiration. As for competitions, Maestro Kissin never HAD to engage in such egomania. He was BORN so that the master composers' music could flow through his body. Your mr. li doesn't hold a candle to Maestro Kissin.

Your turn.

[thunder1909]

So you're saying it's inappropriate for pianists to make any large or sudden movements with thier body that exceed a couple of inches? Even if the performance is a good one?

Next, you still haven't answered me in terms of Li's first place finish at the Chopin competition. Are you saying the many judges there made a mistake of choosing the poor pianist over the good one? Perhaps Li just gave a bad performance of the Chopin scherzo, but he is NOT a terrible pianist. On the contrary in fact.

[ThresholdLiminality]

good!!!!!

[YGYGYGYGYGYGYGYGYGYG]

Threshold: Good? EXCELLENT! This kid is only 12, and can memorize and play an entire program already! Simply AMAZING! Now THIS is SHOCK & AWE!

LOL!

(^o^)

[kh2pro]

looks pretty easy..where's the sheet music?

[emosophia]

wow...amazing!!!