The Judicial Murder of Terri Schindler Schiavo - 1 of 7

[trayceerae13]

Whoa...yall saying that she culd only feel pain & that was all she culd feel are clearly ignorant..to be able to feel pain requires a part of your brain to function that alone is proof that someone is ALIVE. She could open her eyes..make sounds..turn her head and recolect certain sounds & smells wich proves she wasnt just a waste of space or only as good as a vegetable. WTF GIVES A JUDGE THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE THE FATE OF THIS WOMAN OVER THE CHOICE OF HER MOTHER WHO BROUGHT HER INTO THIS WORLD??

[liberalsuck931]

Some of the comments on here are sickening! What was done to Terri Schiavo was wrong and it was murder. She was not in a coma, she was never dying, and she interacted with her family when she saw them. If you think that removing her feeding tube was right, you are sick in the head. It should not have been up to her jackass husband whether she should have lived or died, her parents should have been her legal guardian, not her husband.

[Blahb27]

@liberalsuck931 How and why? We're talking about someone who has no conciousness left. The only thing such a person can be aware of, because those systems keep working, is pain.

You're talking about forcing a person to suffer years of constant pain, round-the-clock torture.

And the only thing you base yourself on to condemn other humans to that, is that they told you in church to think like that.

Tell me, do you even believe that point of view, or do you just recite what you've been told?

[liberalsuck931]

@Blahb27 Do you think starvation and dehydration is a decent way to kill somebody who is disabled? She did not suffer any pain. She was as alive as you and I are. She just couldn't communicate normally like a normal person or take care of herself. Terri lit up every time she saw her parents, especially her mother. She was not in a coma and she was aware of her surroundings. Terri's parents should have been her guardians, not her husband.

[Blahb27]

@liberalsuck931 No. Then again, Schiavo wasn't euthanasia, but what they call paliative sedation, or in other words, keeping someone asleep as they slowly starve. Still it's better than living like a plant, only able to sense pain, if anything, and nothing else.

With euthanasia, there is so such suffering involved. And she was not alive. Being braindead or heavily braindamaged just sweeps away any form of conciousness. She was alive in the same way the grass on the lawn is alive.

[jlhelms4500]

Let's view the medical results. Clearly you saw the MRI of Terri's brain. Most of her cortical cells were dead, her neurons were dead, and we should all know that you can not regain brain cells. It is known in the medical world that a body can have reflexes while in a Persistent Vegetative State without responding directly to stimuli. I do not know the medical rulings as soon as Terri collapsed in 1990, but I believe that she had no hope for recovery no matter how much hope the family exerted

[creamygoodness420]

How do you murder a veggie tale?

[cathplyr]

The mainstream media was Terris #1 enemy. They were the leaders of the masses wo wanted to kill her.

[creamygoodness420]

WTF? Judicial murder? The bitch was already dead! I bet half of these rediculous Catholics who are all "pro life" are all for the death penalty. Remember you conservative bitches, you can't be "pro life" and for the death penalty!

By the way, nobody has been arrested and charged with the "murder" of Mary Schindler's (Terri Schiavo's mom) tomato....

[creamygoodness420]

Thank God the bitch is dead. I was so sick of seeing this veggie bitch on TV drooling and farting each night, then listening to these right wing "pro-life" Catholic fucks. Stupid tomato is finally in Hell! I laughed so hard watching this, that pathetic bitch Mary Schindler looked so stupid. "Governor Bush, save my tomato!" Crazy right wing fucks, they say "pro-life" but are so quick to be pro war and pro death penalty. Can't have it both ways you retarded right wing fucks!

[DarkAdaptedEyes]

@creamygoodness420

you're a disgusting individual, and your bile will come back to you

[perfectbark]

QUOTE:

According to Terri Schiavo's autopsy report, her "lateral geniculate nucleus (visual) demonstrated transneuronal degeneration with gliosis." Or, as the medical examiner put it in plainer English, "Her vision centers of her brain were dead. Therefore, Mrs. Schiavo had what's called cortical blindness. She was blind, could not see."

[perfectbark]

That isn't what Schiavo's parents, pro-lifers, and congressional Republicans told us all these years. They said videos showed her eyes following people and objects. "In the video footage, which you can actually see on the Web site today, she certainly seems to respond to visual stimuli," Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist declared three months ago as he spearheaded a congressional invasion of the case.

[perfectbark]

To pro-lifers, the meaning of the videos was as plain as the eyes on your face. "Streaming video of Terri Schiavo apparently glad to see her mom," one Web site advertised. "Terri looks over, sees her mom and gets a huge smile on her face," reported another. "As you can readily see, Terri is obeying commands," said a third. Several sites posted a common list of video links that began with Terri watching a balloon and Terri's alert eyes. "Seeing is believing," they concluded.

[perfectbark]

"Now that you have seen, do you believe that this woman deserves to be starved and dehydrated to death?"

[perfectbark]

But now we know she was blind. She didn't see her mom. She didn't see the balloon. Her eyes weren't alert. We didn't see in her what we thought we saw.

How did we get it wrong? We know what blinded her. But what blinded us?

Let's look back at some of those videos. Start with Terri watching a balloon. It shows her eyes gliding up, down, this way, and that as a doctor entreats her:

[perfectbark]

You can watch the video and draw your own conclusions. But what's striking in retrospect is what you can't see: the balloon. Without it, you can't tell whether she's following it. In fact, her eyes dart back and forth too quickly to reflect the movements of a balloon, even if it were jerked by a human hand. It's easy to overlook this, because your brain succumbs to the audio: "You see that, don't you, huh? You do follow that a bit, don't you?" You didn't see her eyes following the balloon.

[perfectbark]

You heard that you saw it. And when you see the full text of the doctor's words—"Terri? Come on. Terri, no, no. I'm using both sound and"—you can catch the warning signs you didn't initially hear.

[perfectbark]

Again, the bigger story is what you can't see. In this case, it's the four-plus hours of video from which Schiavo's parents and their supporters selected clips like these. Reporters who have watched the whole video series say it's largely a wasteland. "For nearly an hour, her parents and the doctor tell her to open her eyes, close her eyes, look this way, look that way—with little apparent response," says the St. Petersburg Times.

[perfectbark]

The Times posts a sample clip in which Schiavo's mom, leaning in from the right, asks her daughter, "Can you turn over here and see me? Can you turn over here and see me? Okay. Hey, Sweetheart. Ter." A doctor tells the mother, "Ask her to look at you, would you, Mary?" Schiavo's mom obliges: "Terri? Can you look at Mommy? Can you look at Mommy? Over here. Ter." Nothing happens.

[smurfiennes]

if the husband didnt want her alive anymore, why not gave her life back to her parents? afteral, they had given her life before n cared for her b4 she met him. no parents want to neglect their children. they basically killed her by starving her to death, and legally done as well! would u want to do that to your own pet? of course not, let alone your relative or family member. euthanasia should be done quick n painless. this one failed on all counts! pvs can be cured by zolpidem/ambien nowadays.

[deltaolemissfan]

she was dead and on life support for over 19 years ..... why can't you get that through your thick catholic ignorant head? euthanasia is illegal on humans stupid

[smurfiennes]

euthanasias legal in holland! provided the patient makes sure that some people know his/her wish, n the doctor/hospital will arrange the procedure legally! most time the patientll push the button himself. its more human than starving n dehydrating someone to death like what they did to her! who u think u r to call me thick catholic ignorant head? ppl like u should travel n live outside of your village!

weve no death sentence in holland, what bout your country?

[Perfectbarc]

don't make assumptions there Sabina, this isn't Sarah Palin you're talking to. in this country, the spouse has the final decision making authority in these matters. Unfortunately, the religious nuts in America can't place themselves in what must have been a very difficult situation that went on for over 10 years.

Too many religious wackos in America. They'll murder a doctor thinking that they are saving embryos.

[smurfiennes]

her spouse? wasnt he already dating someone else when he wanted her to die? didnt u ask yourself what kind of spouse he was to her? its nothing to do w religions at all, it just was plain murder. if she wanted herself dead, then it s fine but none would want herself to be starved and dehydrated to death, a slow and painful death wish for herself? very unlikely! but also theres no witness on her family side or her close friends, only on his family side - so thats tricky!

[perfectbark]

after 10 years you idiot ..... the woman was dead.

[smurfiennes]

i supposed u should look up zolpidem on youtube, im sure ull find a coupla clips made by a dutch/belgian family whose sons in pvs for 11 years (just as shiavo was) n now can feed himself. his dad made an intro in english so ull be able understand it. u do like name callings - thats very immature!

[perfectbark]

uh huh ..... apparently you didn't read the press releases I've pasted below. there was absolutely NO CERBRAL FUNCTION for YEARS as was confirmed by the autopsy. There was absolutely NOTHING suspicious in the husband's behavior with the exception of was is contrived by nutty conspiracy theorists and the wacko religious community including frank pavone, george bush and the reactionary wing of the GOP. She was irreversibly brain dead and living an a protracted vegetative state.

[Alexandra22773]

She wasn't dead. All she needed was a feeding tube, and with therapy she could have gotten off it.  Her "loving" husband denied her therapy.

[perfectbark]

Schiavo Autopsy Released

Brain Damage 'Was Irreversible'

By David Brown and Shailagh Murray

Washington Post Staff Writers

Thursday, June 16, 2005

Terri Schiavo suffered severe, irreversible brain damage that left that organ discolored and scarred, shriveled to half its normal size, and damaged in nearly all its regions, including the one responsible for vision, according to an autopsy report released yesterday

[perfectbark]

Schiavo's brain damage "was irreversible . . . no amount of treatment or rehabilitation would have reversed" it, said Jon R. Thogmartin, the pathologist in Florida's sixth judicial district who performed the autopsy and announced his findings at a news conference in Largo, Fla.

[perfectbark]

A study of her organs, fluids, bones and cells, as well as voluminous medical records, failed to support strangulation, beatings, a drug overdose, complications of an eating disorder or a rare molecular heart defect.

[DarkAdaptedEyes]

@perfectbark

oh shut up already

[perfectbark]

YOU ARE WRONG. Hasn't anyone taught you the difference between right and wrong in your life?

YOU ........ are wrong.

[Borntocoast]

I Stand Corrected! I just saw a Special on TBN this morning. (10/09/09) My Original Opinion was based on what I heard from our SLANTED Media. I had believed Ms Schiavo was bedridden from the beginning, and that ANY attempt at Rehabilatation was done from bedside. Boy was I wrong! Rehab all but STOPPED when Mr. Schiavo got involved with his new Girlfriend. On top of that I believed Ms. Schiavo nas not in pain. If this was so WHY was she being injected with Morphine in her last days?

[deltaolemissfan]

TBN?? are you stupid??

[Huntgoddessfishery]

Some people are only here for the purpose of ridiculing disabled people. They can get very nasty. Nobody's allowed to disagree with them.

I believe some of them may be connected with Scientology, which teaches that disabled people don't want to live because of their low "emotional tone". (Read L. Ron Hubbard's book).

The city where Terri died is the Scientology headquarters. Scientology bestowed some kind of honor on Judge Greer after Terri was dead.

[jacobins3000]

This is ridiculous, her brain was a damn ball of liquid. she was brain dead. Its grotesque to have a damn dead body lying there while machines keep her heart beating and keep pumping food into her stomach. Her 'disability' was that she was dead, people on death row have more rights then she did, because people on death row are alive.

[ccheng21]

indeed the autopsy concluded exactly what you said. She had absolutely no higher brain functions, because she had no brain left except for the area that controlled involuntary biological functions such as breathing, digestion and heartbeats. Aside from that, she had absolutely no consciousness.

But you're arguing against fanatical religious folk who look on science with disdain when it doesn't suit their interests.

[elenazevetse]

Why do people only value life based on biological funtion. She was in a bed, a vegetable what life did she have other than breathing. If someone is lying in a bed and will lie there for all their life, what live do they really have other than biological. We people need to evaluate what life really is. If I were to be confined to a bed for all my life, I'd rather be dead since the difference is just a heartbeat.

[vanessamenacho]

Go to the Terri Schiavo Schindler foundation website for facts about Terri. She was responsive, and was able to interact with her parents. She could smile, etc. Her parents were willing to take care of her. Many people think she was a vegetable. But she was responsive for God sakes!!!. The husband remarried within 4 years of her first collapse, and had kids, received thousand of dollars, and then decided on Terri's death?. What the hell? Her parents were willing to take care of her.

[mnfitch08]

I went to the Terri Schiavo website and found nothing about her being responsive or interacting with parents or smiling. I think you are lying about this. I do agree her husband was a bastard tho. But, even if her parents took over, she had no quality of life and it was a selfish act by her parents. I do not think she should of been dehydrated/ straved to death but took off all medical devices and feed/ given water. She would of eventually of died but in a decent way.

[BLUEGRASSJAMMIN]

@mnfitch08 WELL THEN DID YOU EVER LOOK AT THE VIDEOS WHERE SHES CLEARLY RESPONDING TO PEOPLE AROUND HER IN THE ROOM AND EVEN A PHILLIES GAME?? FINE BE BLIND-THATS HOW JUDGE GREER MADE HIS DECISION TOO, BY CLOSING HIS EYES TO THE TRUTH, AND TO JUSTICE

[mnfitch08]

@BLUEGRASSJAMMIN you.are.an.idiot.

[1StandingRock]

@mnfitch08 if im an idiot your brain dead

[BLUEGRASSJAMMIN]

@mnfitch08 who aare you to determine that she should have died? she clearly was alive, so your saying too that all developmentally disabled and comatose should eventually die too? dont even join the "not dead yet fight" unless you really believe in it. your just a halfway, sitting on the fence man not really any power or conviction there

[1StandingRock]

@mnfitch08 U DIDNT LOOK VERY HARD

[selious04]

The real reason Terri Schiavo died was because she found out her husband was a reptilian, that's what caused her "accident". Notice the hand in this picture, it's not a hoax and it's her husband's hand:

stargods (dot org) /Schiavo.jpg

I can't put the direct link hence the parenthesis separating the url

[jrmsher33]

#1 terri shiavo wasn't "disabled" she was brain dead. Why the hell should anybody keep a flatlined, shell of a body, alive? pouring millions of dollars into a corpse? You act like she was in a wheelchair and the government decided to "do away with her" The courts sided with her husband, they didn't kill her. Do U realize how many trillions of dollars would be spent on keeping brain dead bodies warm For what?  Doctors caring for the dead while the living suffer.

[hannahr77]

jr

she was not brain dead, she did responded to her mother and she did smile to her mother, her family would had taken care of her if they where allowed but oh no the lying cheating husband had his way

[lultimanotte315]

This is why everyone should make it utterly clear what they do and do not want done for intervention should they suffer any of these types of injuries.

[sandhilldiva]

i would not want to "live" like that. that is not living it is existing let me go and meet my maker

[BenAliGtor]

"whoo689; It became a Federal issue because it goes to the heart of our Constitution - 'the right to LIFE liberty and the pursuit of happiness'."

That phrase appears in the Declaration of Independence- not the Constitution. All the Constitution guarantees is a right to due process (Ref. V and XIV Amendments) to due process prior to the deprivation of life, liberty, or property. (Con't.)

[macpduff]

Why didn't Terrie's husband just get their marriage disolved - which is easy to do under the mental incompetency laws. Mr Schiavo didn't have to stay with her if he could no longer handle it. Why didn't he let her parents have Guardianship?

The answer: because he wanted the insurance money. He killed her for the money. If he got divorced he would have gotten no money. I am the Court appointed Guardian for my brain injured husband. Isn't this what Nazi germany did to the Disabled and Incompetent?

[BenAliGtor]

"Isn't this what Nazi germany did to the Disabled and Incompetent? "

When logic and reason fail in an argument, throw in Hitler, the Nazis, and the Third Reich.

AKA, "Godwin's Law" or "playing the Nazi card".

y-a-a-a-a-a-w-w-w-n-n-n-n-n...­......

[westabot]

More people should really listen to what this man has to say. If you don't, you may wish you did one day when you have no personal rights left and when the government routinely controls you or your families very life.

[nadinemoumne]

STFUUUUUUU!

sorry terry:(

[whoo689]

Why did this become such a huge federal issue in the first place? Why were conservatives so concerned about this one case? There are probably 1000s of cases like this all over the country!! Yet they isolated one case to use it for their right-wing agenda. This wasn't about caring about Schiavo. It was part of their agenda all along.

[BenAliGtor]

"This wasn't about caring about Schiavo. It was part of their agenda all along. "

Fortunately, the majority of Americans (over 80% according to polls at the time) saw it as what it really was: exploitation of a personal tragedy for political gain. The 2006 and 2008 election resuts reflected this: the Re-pukes lost Congress and then the White House, and their future is even dimmer. One could argue that the awakening bagan as a reaction against the grandstanding in this case.

[macpduff]

BenAliGtor; Yes there was political grandstanding, but if you read my comments, you'll see that the Executive and Congressional branches were carrying out their responsibilities to uphold Terri's Constitutional Right to Life. They were attempting to protect us all.

Now that seatbelts and head "rests" eliminate other auto injuries, you are more likely than ever to suffer a Traumatic Brain Injury and be like Terri. No safety device stops the brain from slamming against the skull's interior

[NwZ2]

The voice of reason will not penetrate those who see its light as their enemy.

[macpduff]

whoo689; It became a Federal issue because it goes to the heart of our Constitution - 'the right to LIFE liberty and the pursuit of happiness'. At the core of who we are as a nation, we have said that all persons have a right to life! When the Judicial branch failed to protect Terri, the Congress and Executive branches did exactly what they are required to do by law and according to their responsibilities. Being unable to pursue her 'liberties' and 'happinesses' does NOT negate her right to LIFE

[BenAliGtor]

(Con't.) The Florida court heard evidence and arguments from both sides in order to determine what Terri's wishes were. That court made a ruling- and was sustained each and every time on both appeal and collateral review.

There was procedural due process in this case. The outcome was not what the Schindlers and their allies wanted, but there were ample opportunities of both notice & an opportunity for them to be heard in all instances.

[jrmsher33]

What life?

[whoo689]

I find it so funny how anti-euthanasia folks call it "murder." It's NOT! Murder is malicious and premeditated. The peole who "murdered" her did out of mercy. They didn't wanna see her suffering anymore. It wasn't just heartless, mindless killing. Can't you idiots see that?? It's about FREEDOM! Euthanasia is one thing, but no one should be denied the right to assisted suicide. Kevorkian never should've got jail time. He was a good man who helped sick patients end their misery.

[macpduff]

whoo689;

It WAS malicious. It WAS premeditated.

It WAS heartless.

It WAS murder.

If what is at stake weren't so grave, your comment would be funny. To be assisted suicide, the person has to ask for and want it. Legally, the wish to continue living is pressumed - unless you write a contract/predirective stating otherwise ie- a Living Will.

If Terri didn't have an insurance policy, and a husband who got the money, -I wonder if she'd be alive today?

[dilemmix]

what a monotonous, boring voice does this reader have.

[tombstoner79]

Nobody was devaluing people with disabilities. Not everybody who is in a wheelchair is a vegetable. If I was living like that I sure hope my husband would let me die.

[mdfilmguy]

Every reputable examination showed that she had no concious mental activity and that she was not abused by her husband. The same people who claimed to be acing in support of a "culture of life" defend a war that has claimed the lives of 4,000 Americans and as manya s 1,000,000 Iraqis. George W. Bush presided over a record number of executions as Texas governor. The day we take ethics lessons from Alan Keyes and Ann Coulter we have failes as a nation.

[hoggdawn]

Isn't the world a better place since Terri died? God has blessed this country so much since our Government enforced the murder edict against this woman. The economy, the war---so many blessings!

[hoggdawn]

We live in a brave new world. Maybe we should set the bar a little higher when it comes to allowing people to live. Every year every person should have to present themselves in front of a panel that would test them to see if they were worthy to live another year. If you could not make a significant economic contribution to society, you would be denied food and drink until you died. Then, every person would be healthy and strong! The weak would be gone! No nursing homes, VERY few hospitals!

[scubacop]

Terri was a writhing husk of a human being. It is truly deranged, -in fact DEMONIC that some people wanted to preserve her from dying.

Science is what has progressed civilization. Learn to trust it because if you don't you are only thinking of your self and not the generations of those ahead of you.

And to those of the religious right: You really think you can fool the fucking PRINCE OF LIES!?

...try to have a little perspective on things (for everyone's sake, not just your own).

[hoggdawn]

Hey scubacop---maybe you should be the one to go around and kill the weak! Are you big and strong? I bet you are! Terry was very disabled; but there was money to take care of her, she brought joy to her parents, and she was comfortable. But I bet she wasn't big and strong like you! Oh, aren't you happy she died? And her big, strong husband got his way! I bet thats what you like, too---huh scubacop? Kill the old, the weak, and the people that make us confront our own potential weaknesses!

[Perrine234]

There was more money to be make from keeping her alive. Michael Schiavo was offered a million dollars from her family, but declined it in order to respect Terri's wishes.

[EndeavorFreedom]

Bullshit Michael withdrew her care after winning the million dollar lawsuit and even put a DNR order on her so that she couldn't be treated for urinary infections. There was even sworn testimony by hospice staff that he was injecting her with insulin to put her into shock. Get your facts straight.

Bet you didn't even know she could swallow food and water. She was not the only one killed this way. This happens everyday in every hospital nursing home in America. That's the reality.

[Perrine234]

Well, if she could swallow, I guess she didn't need a feeding tube. Or nurses cleaning and clearing her mouth.

She could swallow, but such actions were indicative of unconscious actions, and were consistent with PVS.

[EndeavorFreedom]

Science is what has separated people from God and made them believe we're evolved from monkeys. Science hasn't advanced anything if we're so advanced why is our world in shambles and going down the tubes.

You think science will help to make this world a better place? This world will die by fire and only the Lord can save us from ourselves.

I'll pray for you friend. Maybe you should stay out of the water, it's affecting your brain. So do you really think we evolved of monkeys???

[kalaboukas]

Do urself a favour, and open your fucking eyes. We didn t magically appear on this planet, we are the result of a 7 million years evolutionary trip, and yes, we do come from apes. Too afraid to believe it? Open another freakin book apart from the bible, see a documentary, visit a museum and see the fucking BONES. Pathetic mind controled idiot.

[shakaz01]

so, your ancestors were apes huh???  way kool. never met a real ape descendant before. rofl.

[jszekerj]

Haha, yea, for real.

Hey, if we evolved from apes through progression, then why aren't we still evolving? Are humans the top of the "evolution," then? If we evolved from apes, then why are there still apes?? Why aren't those apes that we've known for centuries evolving yet? Apes have remained apes through the history books of man, man has remained man as well.

Sometimes you just have to have faith and believe. I guess you don't believe in anything then?

[shakaz01]

dont know if ur comment is directed at me or not, but ur on point. .

[perfectbark]

sometimes you have to let go of fantasy

[perfectbark]

we are still evolving, and so are the apes, at least as long as we don't cause extinction due to deforestation and habitat loss in general....evolution, by definition is "change over time" and geological time began around 4.6 byo....many of us believe in things other than the mythology of christianity, islam, or any religion for that matter......many of us believe that religion is the root of all evil deeds practiced by humanity......like war and religion

[MsJayAlexis]

@jszekerj First off, we don't come from apes. Check your facts before posting next time

[perfectbark]

actually.....we came from a common ancestor apes and hominids...

[MsJayAlexis]

@kalaboukas We don't come from apes

[kalaboukas]

Lol, "Science..made them believe we're evolved from monkeys", u sound like some pathetic teachers i had in school, who instead of living in the present, along with the rest of the world, choose to live in their own, more like the world their religion wants them to believe in.

[perfectbark]

well, that's a typical statement made by a bible-thumping sub-normal IQ creationist who wasn't paying attention during biology class....

[kalaboukas]

Spam some more tard face

[p0EkeR]

@EndeavorFreedom The world is in shambles because of religion! And no we do not evolve from monkeys! The same way lizard is not the evolved version of an dinosaur! Go live in a cave with your bible if you deny the progression of science and to what Jesus would! Honor the poor, reject the powers that be "bankers"!

[cathplyr]

@scubacop "preserve her from dying?" You people who wanted Terri dead are really SICK in the head.

[BLUEGRASSJAMMIN]

@scubacop YOU BASICALLY ADMIT THAT YOU ADHERE TO THE "PRINCE OF LIES" ? HE IS THE BIGGEST FOOL OF ALL.AND SO ARE YOU FOR ADMITTING THAT YOU SERVE HIM, EVEN BY BELIEVING OR SUPPORTING YOUR DEMONIC PRO MURDER POMPOUS ATTITUDE!

[Blahb27]

@BLUEGRASSJAMMIN Talking about serving demons, you're doing nothing but scream out what you were told in church. You don't think for yourself. If you did, you'd have read a long time ago the only pro-murder viewpoint is in the bible.

Jeremiah 48:10 clearly states that if you do not murder other people for your religion, you will be damned.

Even genocide is obligatory, says your fictional god. Deuteronomy 13:13-19.

[zperra]

Her brain had wasted away. Her autopsy confirmed that she'd been brain-dead for years. She was not a living person, she was like a corpse that her family kept from decaying.

[Perrine234]

If euthanasia was legal, Terri's body could have been put to rest in ten minutes instead of two weeks. It's obscene how we treat people worse than our pets and call it "compassion".

[hoggdawn]

Oh, wow, I agree with you. We should just go into the hospitals with AK-47's and purge the planet of all the warm corpses! And we could call it, "putting people to rest!" Wow! What a great term! Maybe Bush should use that term in Iraq---we don't kill the enemy---we "put them to rest!" Captital punishment? We don't kill criminals, we "put them to rest!". Hospitals could be marketing with such innovation---like one big soft mattress where you go in but nobody comes out! Genious!

[Perrine234]

Aside from being a post full of strawmen, at least you're consistent in acknowledging there is NO DIFFERENCE between refusing treatment and actively committing suicide.

[mattbryson23]

There are soo many people here with very closed minds...only a person like Hitler would side with her husband...? What?

She was in a coma with very little brain activity...she was never going to have a normal life and it was time to say goodbye. The fact is, death by starvation sounds awful but if you consider that anesthetic is used in surgery (where you don't feel sharp knives cutting you up), and anesthesia effects ur body in similar ways as a coma does, i doubt she suffered

[perfectbark]

the answer is in the post-mortem examination

[GnosticNinja]

What few speak of is the fact that your government is making "laws" which gives them the lame excuse to decide who lives/dies. Your Constitution has been replaced with torture and global conquest. Does anyone out there care?

[jjbailey22]

so really it's not a question on whether or not it was a justful death, it should be whether or not it was a humane way to die.

[jjbailey22]

not only was she "MURDERED" for being unable to speak her opinion on her life but she was starved to death, so weather or not she wanted to die, I highly doubt she wanted to die in the painful way she was forced to. death by starvation is not ideal, nor is forced dehydration. anybody who would agree this is an acceptable way to die would have to either be completely ignorant and brain dead themselves, or they would have to be Hitler.

[PogueMoran]

terminal cancer patients*

[InYourFaceNewYorker]

Yeesh, I wouldn't want to be kept alive in that condition. Ever see her brain scan? The handwriting was on the wall that she had no quality of life. Fortunately my family agrees with me; we all have made it clear that if we end up like that we would not want to be kept alive like that.

[EndeavorFreedom]

It's a personal choice whether you would want to live with a disability or not all I'm saying is that we can not allow the medical establishment or the government to continue having the power to starve and dehydrate people to death.

That is torture, not mercy.

[InYourFaceNewYorker]

Fine, but this person had no quality of life. I sincerely doubt she was happy in that condition- if she was indeed capable of feeling emotion at that point, which she probably wasn't. Have you seen her brain scan? the handwriting was on the wall.

[EndeavorFreedom]

What you fail to understand is that Terri is not the only person this has, had, or will happen to. No matter what your judgment on her quality of life, no one deserves to be starved and dehydrated to death and yet every day in every one of our hospitals people are being killed this way. We don't allow this kind of treatment for animals making it a felony, our Constitution even protects criminals from cruel and unusual punishment, but this is okay for people with disabilities?

[EndeavorFreedom]

Watch part 5,6, and 7. The point of the movie is you and your family are at risk to die the same way she did.

[PogueMoran]

You didn't just use the animal argument did you? Yeah animals if they had all the problems Terri had like having nothing but a brainstem keeping her alive they would have been put to sleep.  You would have protested to that too. The fact remains Oral agreements are legal in Florida and several witnesses testified that she didn't want to live like that so yes it was a personal choice as is it with those who have treatment withheld

[FeastOnScraps]

Terri had MORE than a "brain stem" keeping her alive. She was DISABLED. That's it.  She interacted with her family and her surroundings. The only thing she needed was a feeding tube. So what? Babies need bottles or a breast to eat, should we be allowed to kill them?

[PogueMoran]

Um No she had just her brain stem keeping her alive. The brain stem is what controls lower brain functions like breathing, reflex reactions, etc. Saying she was disabled is an understatement. Babies can eat and swallow and have the ability to actually communicate and are conscious of their surroundings and can adapt. What you're saying makes no sense. She stated to various people she wouldn't want to live like that why should you force someone to?

[Laurieb2851]

PogueMoran, I've cared for patients just like Terri. I have witnesssed that patients like Terri are in fact able to think and further are able to communicate. Michael didn't want Terri to recover that was pretty obvious. In my opinion he couldn't afford to have her able to tell everyone just what he did to put her in her situation in the first place.

[perfectbark]

oh no you haven't!!!

[dyerasyd]

Starvation was the only way allowed under law as administering drugs or other positive actions to cause death is illegal. The only option left for the doctors was to allow nature to take its course.

[FeastOnScraps]

Did you ever stop to think about the fact they took that brain scan AFTER she died?

Do you know WHY her brain was in the condition it was in? BECAUSE SHE WAS DEHYDRATED TO DEATH!!!!

Our bodies are 90% water, if we are denied water our internal organs will shrivel!

Terri was a disabled woman. She breathed on her own and interacted with her family. She was murdered, plain and simple.

[InYourFaceNewYorker]

She wasn't interacting with them; these were reflexes. The brain scan was taken while she was still alive.

A plant leans toward the sun, and then when you turn the plant around it learns toward it again. Are you going to tell me now the plant is conscious? She was operating on rudimentary reflexes.

BTW Europe was laughing at us making such a big deal about this case.

And she was disabled?? What's next, calling the dead the living impaired??

[PogueMoran]

No the brain weight had nothing to do with dehydration. Are you saying the coroner was stupid enough to not factor in the loss of water weight? The fact is even factoring in the loss of water weight from dehydration it was much smaller than it should have been. Her cerebral cortex was destroyed. She did not interact with her family no matter how much her family wanted to believe it.

[vibovitold]

the problem here is that "quality of life" is a very relative term. where do you draw the line? i'd rather keep on feeding people who are in Schiavo's state (if they are completely braindead as you say, it can't hurt them anyway) than start pushing the boundary

[InYourFaceNewYorker]

Well, that's why people need to make living wills to avoid such controversy. In any case, I don't know anybody who would think it humane to keep somebody alive in that condition. They also wouldn't want to be kept alive that way.

[vibovitold]

and why exactly isn't it humane? because i don't get it. if she's technically dead (braindead), then you can't logically say it's hurting her anyhow, or even violating her dignity, since the person is long gone and not there. you're right, people should make living wills. but if they haven't made any (in writing, i mean), we should assume that the person would prefer to be kept alive, just as we assume a defendant is innocent until proven otherwise.

[NwZ2]

No, but you can say it's hurting the peopel around her as well as its exploitative of her memory. At that point, brain death = death (ie death of the personality, of the mind, that which we denote as being HUMAN, that which separates us from the animals).

Without the brain, isn't she but cells moving in rhythm? Isn't the body nothing but weak flesh?

[mnfitch08]

wow, did u go to medical school?

[onoratodanny]

I would want to stay alive like that. I don't care if it's painful. as long as there's people who love me, then I'd be a cucumber for the rest of my life if I had to. If no one loved me however, then I'd want to die.

[macpduff]

onoratodanny: For me the issues were

1- Does any person, government or institution have the right to take away an innocent human life?

2- She was starved to death - murdered - plain and simple! Would you or I want to die that way? I think not.

Terri wasn't on extreme life supports. Usually when "nature is allowed to take it's course", the person is given basic needs that any sick person needs - food hydration, warmth, cleanliness, shelter, etc.

There was no reason for her murder.

[ccheng21]

judicial murder? how about the mercy of release of life? It seems far less humane to allow someone to remain alive, but braindead. Terri Shiavo was dead long before these events happened. The only thing that these "lifelovers" did, was deny her the peace of death and heaven.

[EndeavorFreedom]

What about being forcefully starved and dehydrated over the course of 14 days is merciful? If Terri was dead before her ordeal, why did they have to give her morphine to alleviate her pain. Brain dead people don't feel pain and are not conscious, which she was neither.

Seems your the brain dead one for believing the bullshit mainstream press and their limited coverage. I bet you believe Saddam and Iraq had something to do with 9/11, too.

[PogueMoran]

Terminal cancer patience often decide to go without food than to continue fighting and they don't feel hunger the same way we do and it is often peaceful. They didn't give her morphine to alleviate her pain. Morphine is given to these patients for the comfort of the family and not the patient themself. She didn't feel pain her cerebral cortex was destroyed

[FeastOnScraps]

That is not true that she didn't feel pain. She felt pain and interacted with her family and environment. Who are you going to believe, the family who loved her or the man who cheated on her with other women and wanted her dead?

Come on how, use your brain!

[PogueMoran]

I'm using my brain which is something she couldn't do and something you're not. She did not interact with her family whatsoever. She had no ability to comprehend pain because the part of her brain that sends those signals was dead. She was neocortically dead and all she had left was a brain stem that made reflex reactions

[shakaz01]

usa is a very barbaric country.

[Lurk58]

As a member of this country, I agree. I don't know what we are thinking. This is why I am glad that I'm moving to New Zealand.

[perfectbark]

good luck....after 8 years of conservative domination I wish I was going with you...it's really beautiful there

[PogueMoran]

Isn't it kind of a jerk thing for you to call a woman by a name she never took in her life? How would you like it if I decided to randomly change your name for you?

[Perrine234]

(Come on how, use your brain!)

You first.

[Perrine234]

And for the record, I believe the doctors who know more about the brain that you ever could.

[FeastOnScraps]

Terri was only disabled. Are you telling me that disabled people should be exterminated at for our convenience? If so you would have been great friends with Hitler!

[PogueMoran]

No one is saying what you claimed Feast you went from zero to Godwin in half a second. Calling her disabled is like saying a double amputee only has arm troubles. She had no cerebral cortex and not capable of higher brain functions. It would be like having a car that doesn't have an engine in it, has no wheels, transmission and then calling it a car.

[Perrine234]

Pro-life when embryos and the brain dead are sacred and sentient beings are worthless. Most people who oppose voluntary euthanasia also oppose universal healthcare.

[AnysiaC]

She wasn't 'disabled'. She was a warm corpse that hadn't laid down to die, and was being kept warm artificially. She had nothing between her ears other than cerebral fluid.

Try learning, instead of blindly nodding about rhetoric spouted by 'religious' leaders with an agenda.

[EndeavorFreedom]

Merciful starvation and dehydration? Are you for real?

[ccheng21]

Terri Shiavo wouldn't have wanted to be kept artificially alive by these methods. To do so was against her wishes. Her husband Michael held some hopes that there would be a chance for her but she was dead not shortly after she collapsed in the 1990's.

I can understand her family's hopes that she may be revived by therapy but we have not progressed enough.

Her spirit had long departed. Her husband did the dignified thing which was allow her to pass.

[Plutonwolf]

And do not EVER forget the results of her final autopsy. Her brain had atrophied to the size of an apple. No one recovers ever from that.

[vibovitold]

:) her husband didn't mind keeping her artificially alive, a few years later he suddenly remembered that she told him she wouldn't want that.