Does Race Drive Opportunity? - John Powell

[BaronVonLichtenstein]

The main cause of poverty is deadbeat dads and women with no money having kids. And the government paying women with no money to have kids. Then everyone is surprised poverty increases, these kids with no role models, money, bad school, work or study ethics mysteriously don't become middle class? Meanwhile Asians from all over do coming here with little. Its a real enigma. That behavior effects opportunity.

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein You are assuming that there is no such things as sustained and generational poverty.

Your point is that actions largely dictate poverty.

That point is not borne out by history and geography.

Throughout the world, people are born into poverty and have very little to no chance of escaping it.

Take Brazil and India for example.

In the US, there has always been and always will be poor people.

If one is born into poverty, it is much harder to get out of it.

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein Precisely "the opportunties are much less" for poor people whether in the US or India or Brazil. It is only a question of degree.

The poor are the poor regardless of where they live or what they do.

Behavior has never been the casue of poverty except for the ruling class actions that perpetuate and continue impoverished conditions.

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein Actually, your points and your argument is not valid here.

This video is about the racialized status of opportunity in the US not merely poverty.

Powell keenly notes that blacks and latinos live in neighborhoods ill equipped to offer any type of advantage-educational, financial and employment oriented.

This is largely because of the racialized, balkanized, nature of the US, a nation founded on white supremacy and racism.

Equal Opportunity belongs to whites.

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein So what that your father was poor? That doesn't change the inherent racist and racialized nature of this country.

The fact that a few black and latino people own businesses changes nothing about the lack of opportunities available to most latinos and blacks.

When it comes to educational, employment and neighborhoods , whites posess all the advantages. That hasnt changed.

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein A typical rhetorical ploy is to insinuate or proclaim that white people are somehow "victims" in this society. That they don't get the jobs or the educational breaks.

This is pure bullshit.

Whites run this society and they have never really had to prove themselves to anyone.

Blacks and latinos always have. They either have to be first rate or close to that to get good jobs and careers.

The fact is that opportunity remains racialized in this country.

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein It shows what you know which is nothing.

Japanese Americans were interned during WWII not asians as a whole.

Race has always been a consideration in discriminating against blacks and hispanics and even Asian people.

There have always been different standards for different people.

The fact is that whites have and continue to create the rules by which they mostly benefit by.

So, the idea of all of a sudden complaining about double standards is dishonesty at its best.

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein The idea of Affirmative Action as racism is laughable fantasy.

Whites run this society and a number of them voted or put in place Affirmative Action.

So in essence, you are saying that whites are discriminating amongst themselves and working against their own best interests.

This is not the case.

Affirmative Action is nothing more than a method of ensuring representation of non-white peoples in jobs and education.

If there was no racism, there would be no AA.

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein Jews are white but being the racist you are, you don't care about that.

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein Iam half-white and I accurately point out that whites have ruled and continue to rule this country. How that fact demonstrates hatred is a point only an irrational person like you could make and only a rational man like me could reject.

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein Racial discrimination flows and comes from racism.

Your Clintonesque parsing of words isn't going to change that.

Agaim, racism and racist discrimination in this country flow from one source: caucasians.

They control the courts, the legislatures, the governorships and the congress.

Despite Obama's tenure in the White House, nothing has changed for black people in this country.

When blacks or hispanics control the economic and political power centers, get back to me.

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein Like the uneducated person with inferior levels of intelligence you are, you contradict yourself consistently and foolishly.

If Blacks have supposedly low levels of intelligence, then how this enable them to have the same opportunities and advantages as persons of every other race. Logic would imply that it would not.

In essence, you are trying to argue that Blacks are intellectually inferior yet they can succeed simply because there is a President who is Black.

Racist.

[BaronVonLichtenstein]

@MultiSmartass1 No, I'm arguing that you personally have low intelligence, as well as a persecution complex, and overdeveloped sense of self pity. Show me middle class white people who's father was never around, and were born into welfare. The results of bad choices are the same regardless of race. There are a few exceptions, but in general, poverty is largely behavioral, though god knows difficult to overcome with a substandard IQ like yours.

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein Apparently you are illiterate as well as stupid.

Your post said blacks have low IQ's-never mentioned me.

The at the end you mention a black President.

You are contradicting your own racist point.

Also, you point had nothing to do with choice-one cannot choose to be highly intelligent anymore than more can choose to be retarded.

You dont' even know what you arguing about.

Either its low IQ or choices and decisions.

It can't be both because one cancels the other out.

[BaronVonLichtenstein]

@MultiSmartass1 Read The Bell Curve. The Average African American IQ is about 87. How much money and success do you think whites with an 87 IQ have? Big corporate jobs? Try Walmart cashier. Are they oppressed?

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein The Bell Curve doesn't prove anything-I have read it at least twice.

From a class perspective, poor and working class whites could be said to be oppressed.

Walmart is a duplicitous corporation that pays its workers piss poor wages.

You are correlating class with IQ and then postulating that choices are somehow bound up with intelligence solely. That is not logical.

[BaronVonLichtenstein]

@MultiSmartass1 I'm saying in an information age, no one is going to be worse off than the bottom half. Its only an average, but on a larger scale the economic repercussions are enormous. And America was never classless. Go to any court and you see blue collar people being reamed daily by cops, and the courts. My point is, money generally comes to the smart, well educated, well trained or entrepanuers, and we are not helping by dangling carots bribing dumb teenagers to spawn. 

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein Conisdering Iam the one making the point about class, your point about America never being classless come too little too late for this discussion.

It doesn't really matter about what the information age. There have always been poor, middle class and rich in this country-the question is the size of each class.

If by carots you mean jobs then even dumb teenagers need to work or do you like people living off the dole?

[pqxxedf]

@MultiSmartass1 "Behavior has never been the casue of poverty except for the ruling class actions that perpetuate and continue impoverished conditions". Exactly. Like the women's "rights" that the ruling class force on the rest of us but do not practice among themselves. The rich get richer because they take care of their children. The ruling class promote sex warfare (in the name of "women's rights") to divide and conquer us, and it's working out very well for them.

[MultiSmartass1]

@pqxxedf Actually, the rich get richer because they have the best advantages including neighborhoods. What women "rights" have to do with that, Iam hazy on at present.

Yeah, the rich take care of their children but so do the middle class.

I gather you are referring to welfare and single parent families maybe and perhaps abortion.

[pqxxedf]

@MultiSmartass1 Ruling class rich women have no higher power to bait and corrupt them. Some of the middle class take care of their children, but that won't be the case once there is no middle class. Democrats actively promote the ruling class women's "rights" agenda (Republicans do not object). Republicans are there to protect the ruling class against the costs of women's "rights" trying to make their way back up to the ruling class.

[MultiSmartass1]

@pqxxedf Sound to me like you have a problem with women's rights-in whatever form they come in.

To be frank, this video is not about sex or gender but race. Id rather stick to the topic at hand.

[pqxxedf]

@MultiSmartass1 Black men are turning to Islam because our government and the "Christian" church do not even allow them to use reasonable force to keep order in their own homes. Are black churches following the feminist dollar, or do they teach the truth about wives being submissive to their husbands? When a black empowered woman goes to the store, does she save a few pennies by buying a communist Chinese slave labor made product, putting her black male counterparts out of work?

[pqxxedf]

@pqxxedf Doing a little research... Bill Cosby criticizes black men for not being part of women-run families? That is disappointing. It's like George Carlin's joke, the Catholic schoolteacher breaks Johnny's hand and then complains to Johnny's parents about his bad handwriting.

[MultiSmartass1]

@pqxxedf Look, Im not religious so i dont really care but my position is if you have a beef with christianity, that this doesnt seem like the forum for it.

Also, you seem to be think that women have no rights as human beings, If you hate women, go somewhere else and talk about it.

This video deals with race and opportunity. Unless you are ready to discuss that, dont bother me here.

[BaronVonLichtenstein]

@MultiSmartass1 Multigenerational poverty? Yes, there will always be multigenerational poverty. Because stupidity isn't taught, it's inherited. Worse, the smarter the person the longer they wait to have kids. At some point people died of stupidity, now they can die from being average, survive being smart or helpless idiots. America is devolving. Bribing iresponsible idiots to reproduce.

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein Poverty isn't a result of behavior but of class.

There are plenty of irreponsible and reckless middle class and wealthy men and women who still manage to live quite well.

People who poor are largely born into poverty the world over and cant get out of poverty due to lack of opportunities such as education and employment and of course, pitfully low incomes.

And just how are people being bribed in the US to procreate? In other countries, yes but not in the US.

[BaronVonLichtenstein]

@MultiSmartass1 Some people are poor because of a faltering economy. Loss of jobs. Changing markets. Most are poor because they were born out of wedlock to stupid mothers and irresponsibile fathers, all with pitiful IQs, like yourself, shocked they arent middle class. Help, I'm being oppressed.

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein Poverty is a human constant created by the class systems constructed by men the world over.

Irregardless of specific and timely factors that cause poverty like the collapse of markets and depressions and recessions, most human beings in this world will grow up poor because there is a need to keep a large portion of the planet's population poor.

In the US, there is no market incentive in eradicating poverty,

If you were educated and had brains-like I do-you would get it.

[BaronVonLichtenstein]

@MultiSmartass1 the only ones to benefit from poverty are slumlords, democratic politicians and bankers. We dont need poverty. A lot of people just dont know how to make much money. Then compete with illegal aliens. Manufaturing is offshored. If the US need poverty its cheap labor in other parts of the planet. And there is never a lack of desperate cheap labor to go around. Now China is making everything anyway. Your workers paradise.

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein Too bad you dropped out of high school to smoke weed all day.Slumlords and bankers are not the only people to benefit form poverty so are market and liquor store owners, cigarette and alcohol companies and most other companies.

In short, many sectors of the economy benefit from poverty.

The fact is not anybody can be a business person because you need access to capital.

As for cheap labor, how do you think a number of these companies are making money? Cheap labor=poverty

[BaronVonLichtenstein]

@MultiSmartass1 Actually I was thrown out of school. Got some Dummies books a few years later and taught myself programing, for, I don't know $50. There's also libraries. If you can get kids away from Nintendo long enough to read.

[MultiSmartass1]

@BaronVonLichtenstein Hahahaha! I knew you were a loser all along.

Wortheless expelled dropout.

Read some dummies books did we? You are a dummy so that makes sense.

Unlike you , I have brains.

I got my diploma and then went to college and got a BA degree.

It is clear from your posts that you don't know what you are talking about.

Of course, being uneducated, this is all over your head anyway.

Maybe if you had behaved and buckled down in school, you would have made something of yourself.

[BaronVonLichtenstein]

@MultiSmartass1 Oh, I went to school for humanities and had a 3.5 the whole time. It was useless. Computers is where I make money. $40-50 an hour, from a $25 book.

[aphyd2]

@BaronVonLichtenstein

I know this is an old thread but I agree with you. A lot of people think if you have a degree someone will hand you a job making a lot of money. It doesn't work like that. I did a piss-poor job of managing my career and really screwed myself over. I eventually had to create my own opportunities like you did. I used a little of what I learned in school but mostly just studied on my own to create my own business. It was very tough for a long time by I'm doing great now.

[BaronVonLichtenstein]

@aphyd2 The simple fact is, regardless of race, poor people are usually poor from birth because they were born to single mothers with little or no income other than dependence on the state, then act like it's an intangible that can never be proven that's the root cause. Racism. Like the war on terrorism. You can't wage a war on a word. The media and Re-Educational establishment peddle this because they hate personaly responsibility so no one is responsible for their own success or failure.

[BaronVonLichtenstein]

@aphyd2 There's no political mileage to milk if you can't blame society for individuals bad choices. And the government essentially bribes people with no means, and limited intelligence to reproduce everytime they pay for the delivery. Its like reverse Darwinism. Poverty could be cut in half in 20 years by simply not giving anyone money to deliver a baby. Let them get a job with benefits first. We've made an unwed mother a viable occupational choice, and pay for it for decades.

[MultiSmartass1]

Powell is correct. Opportunity is racialized primarily to due to geography and location. Those are the clearest and most obvious factors. I have lived in different neighborhoods in LA-both relatively good and bad-and I can tell you that the composition of a place-ethinically and racially combined with socio-economic class structure matters.

[caltrop69]

Give me a break.

Some have to work hard. Some have to work harder.

What poor neighborhoods of any race have in common is the "poor me," "life is unfair" mentality. Work harder, and you WILL succeed.

[eeedel]

its all a matter of luck/talent these days. just because you "work hard" does not mean you'll be successful... especially if your idea of "success" means lots of money and respect from other members/practitioners/fans within your industry.

[caltrop69]

"these days?"

it's ALWAYS been a matter of luck/talent. Though, for some races, in the past, it's been a matter of luck/talent/race.

Either way, when you come from a sub-culture of pity and entitlement, it's a difficult climb to the top. A lot of prospective clients expect you to actually know something.

My idea of "success" doesn't hinge entirely on money. I think there is a degree of "satisfaction" outside of financial reward.

[araless]

Your philosophy is simplistic beyond imagination. May I ask what type of neighborhood you come from?

[caltrop69]

No. It's not my philosophy that's simplistic. It's yours. Neener neener.

I've lived in many types of neighborhoods. Some had houses. Some had lawns. A few had bushes and trees.

One neighborhood even came equipped with people who had elbows.

It was incredible.

Now please...proceed with your ad hominems. They makes you look smurt.

[araless]

Are you considered a political "minority"? Do you have a first-hand account of what racism is like on the receiving end? How poor have you been in your lifetime? Did you have to "work harder" than average to succeed? Or are you just maintaining a status quo, complacent and mediocre, having been handed down plenty of opportunities along the way?

[caltrop69]

These are all irrelevant questions.

Success is a matter of personal endeavor. Individuals from every background you've named have succeeded, so the premise you're attempting is pointless.

Obviously, when inclined towards "group-think," personal endeavor must sound evil, since it means no one is going to take care of you.

[araless]

They are not irrelevant questions. You cannot make a claim about a life you know absolutely nothing about. Success in poor urban neighborhoods is the exception, due to the odds stacked against a person. Particularly those considered a "minority". "no one is going to take care of you." - Ok, no one should, but no one should interfere with your chance to success in any way, positively or negatively. Your complacency befits a person who's never dealt with senseless discrimination.

[caltrop69]

They ARE irrelevant questions. If ONE can succeed, then ANY can succeed.

It just takes motivation.

You have no idea if I am one of those minority groups, or not. And you won't know. I won't tell you. It's irrelevant to the facts regarding someone else's choices.

You don't want objectivity. You want sympathy.

[araless]

"If ONE can succeed, then ANY can succeed." This is fail-sauce. There are caste systems in place. If someone in a higher class, in charge of employing those in a lower class, decides that one person is inferior to another because of color, than ONE can succeed, whereas ANY cannot. Further, "succeed" in what capacity? I want sympathy?! What a pretentious assumption. I didn't ask for it, I certainly don't want it, and anyway, sympathy for what?!

[caltrop69]

"fail-sauce?"

I hadn't realized I was debating a preteen.

There are no caste systems in place. If there were, then people wouldn't be able to succeed. People do succeed.

No individual is required to employ another individual. That's just the way the world works. If an employer is stupid enough to place skin color high on their list of qualifications, my bet is that they'll be going out of business.

You want sympathy for these poor folks who've decided not to make something of their lives.

[araless]

So really, how long has it been since anyone other than a white man has had a chance in the presidential elections? What percentage of the richest men in the nation are white? And your explanation for this (in a country which slavery was a colossal industry only a few hundred years ago, and less then a century ago granted equal rights to black Americans) is that white people are the only one's who've decided to make something of their lives??? I don't want sympathy, I want reality.

[caltrop69]

We have a black president. The director and assistant director , where I work, are black. No affirmative action exists in our hiring process.

I am absolutely NOT making the claim that only white people make something of their lives. That's YOUR claim. A ridiculous one, at that.

While it is true that old money primarily belongs to whites, for the reasons you've noted, that's no indication of a current discrepancy among races, insofar as hiring and entrepreneurship is concerned.

[CmdrTobs]

Well of coarse some people can succeed. Some people don't. Its a sliding scale of success based on ability. The president remark was interesting. Had George bush been anything but a Whiteman with his intelligentsia he would have NEVER became president.

Most people are not genius' most however do want to work and own a home and most cannot in areas where 75% don't finish school.

They will have had the wrong parents, the wrong friends at school even if they had the potential.

[caltrop69]

Spot on about George Bush. That's the old money issue I mentioned above. What can you do when friends of friends are filthy rich?

CmdrTobs, how would YOU fix the social inequities you point out in your second two paragraphs?

If everyone is convincing these people to drop out of school, HOW do you make them want to qualify for a job that requires education?

I'm of the opinion that politics follow culture. Not the other way around.

[CmdrTobs]

How would I? Education education and education.

They drop out because they have no sense, because there parents never gave them anysense. Becasue they are stupid and know little. Their house is mess, there mom smokes 40 a day....

These people have slang names all over the world. They are the new peasant class, only peasants by there glum reasoning.

Its magical how having a good understanding of maths and WW2 history etc.. actually makes you a good parent and means you don't raise peasant kids

[caltrop69]

I take it you just wanted to rant?

I don't disagree with you. I just thought you were leading up to some sort of solution.

Obviously, if people have no regard for education, but still desire the success that comes from education, then they've got a problem on their hands. Not sure what it's got to do with the rest of us, other than that desperation may lead to criminal behavior.

[CmdrTobs]

No, I said education. That's the solution improve local school. Some kids won't succeed but that is never 75%.

Once people leave with better education they raise there kids better. Read to them at night etc.. which means they don't struggle early on and give up on school.

General education absolutely transforms individuals and communities. Education may not mention; 'Do not sit on your porch' or 'Do not dump old furniture in the street' It makes you not do it thus raise kids that don't etc...

[caltrop69]

You're missing the catch 22 here. You are dealing with a subculture of contempt for education.

You ever heard the pejorative, "Uncle Tom?"

Certainly, education improves the lives of those who obtain it.

Group-think and tribal mentality, however, lead certain sub-cultures to discourage personal success.

I think the best means of having your top-of-the-line school succeed in these areas is to hold up those who succeed, and not impede those who want to.

Everything else will follow.

[MultiSmartass1]

@caltrop69 Very naive thinking. group-think and tribal metality are racist conceits used disparagingly to put down blacks and non-whites.

Opportuntites in this country have always been racialized for race and class, skin color and economy have always gone together.

Go into any poor neighborhood and examine the businesses, the schools and the other institutions. What you will find are a lack of resources. So-called discouragement isn't the factor.

[caltrop69]

@MultiSmartass1

Way to turn the mirror around. The problem I have is WITH treating people as groups, rather than individuals. Your attempt to turn it around to mean the opposite is neither a novel approach, nor is it convincing.

And then you continue the stereotype as a mantra, throughout the rest of your response. Do you want to help people or convince them that their situation is hopeless unless their betters help them? Who is the racist, here? Who is disparaging? I contend that it is you.

[MultiSmartass1]

@caltrop69 People are treated as both groups AND Individuals in this country. Black people have been discriminated against because they are part of a racial group and in individual contexts. The two go together.

Opportunity and resources have always been racialized. Those are facts. I have seen them with my own eyes. Although I did not grow up in poor or lower working class neighborhoods, I have lived in one or two of them as an adult for brief periods. Deal with reality not fantasy.

[caltrop69]

@MultiSmartass1

Indeed people are treated as groups. I think we agree that they shouldn't be. The irony here is that policies allegedly designed to help these groups, or afford them various privileges, often do more to maintain the status quo than to change it.

I find your last sentence fascinating. It could have been used to justify any sort of status quo, like slavery, just as easily.

I honestly believe we are on the same page regarding the ends. We just differ on the means.

[MultiSmartass1]

@caltrop69 I don't know if my last statement was justifying the status quo just acknowledging reality.

The reality is that opportunity is racialized in this society and always has been. It is the inherently racist structure of this country that racializes basic opportunity in this country. You have to deal with the white supremacist nature of the US to deal with stopping racialized opportunity and I don't see that happening.

[caltrop69]

@MultiSmartass1

The reality is that certain sub-cultures tend not to succeed as well as others. People that belong to those sub-cultures often share a skin color. I think skin color can become less relevant as time goes on, though.

You can find poor neighborhoods with all sorts of skin colors. It's the FOCUS on such superficial traits that I find abhorrent and self-sustaining. If you want people to be treated as individuals...You need to start doing it first. Be brave. Stop focusing on race.

[MultiSmartass1]

@caltrop69 This video isn't about skin color or the amount of melanin but about racialized opportunity or lack thereof.

Opportunity has always ben racialized in this country because the US is inherently a white supremacist society with little regard for the rights and abilities of many people of color.

Thus poor neighborhoods are symptoms of the problem not just the problem itself. When you make public policy moves that benefit white suburbs and penalize urban ghettos, you get this.

[caltrop69]

@MultiSmartass1

You're going in circles. You keep stating things as though they were facts, when, in fact they haven't been established as such. I don't find verbal repetition compelling.

Let's change tack:

Pretend you have dictatorial powers. What policies would you put into place to prevent this "racialized opportunity," presuming it exists?

[MultiSmartass1]

@caltrop69 Actually, they have been established by such-by Powell in the video.

I state additional points to back up his thesis.

I choose not to answer your question because of the phrasing of "presuming" after racialized opportunity. If you don't believe that racism and racialized lack of opportunity exists, my answering the question wont serve any point.

Besides this country is so racist that it is woven in the fabric, dictatorial powers wont change anything.

[caltrop69]

@MultiSmartass1

So, I guess we're done, then? You're just going to repeat your mantra, until I go away?

Fair enough. Go ahead with your last word.

[MultiSmartass1]

@caltrop69 Welcome to the no-spin zone!

[caltrop69]

I disagree and I don't care who Malcom Gladwell Buddy is.(It's usually spelled "Malcolm." Are you even spelling your hero's name right?)

If you are too inept to formulate your own argument, than, other than a sense of pity, why should I pay attention to you?

[JasonMelancon]

Yes, race drivers have lots of opportunities. There are over 20 NASCAR circuits alone.

Maybe I don't understand the question.

[Saktoth]

Exactly what i thought when reading it.

[glennd7962]

His argument is much more accurate when applied to class rather then race. Fortunately, we don't live in a society where government in empowered to address class inequality - that would the mission of a communist/marxist/socialist/so­cial justice government. Lol, move to China, see how it worked out under Mao.

[McArrowni]

Or, y'know, one of those social democracies those other western countries seem to be enjoying so much.

[glennd7962]

My point exactly, and everyone of them have far greater racial divisions that the U.S. - do you travel much? They also have terrible poverty, lower standards of living, higher unemployment and lower growth. But my point is that if that's what you want, move there - social justice is not in our constitution. Typical off point, irrelevant, snarky pseudo-intellectual response. I would love to debate you live - you're mind is clearly made of mush.

[McArrowni]

Obviously it's worth someone's time to debate people's whose mind are made of mush, and not people who are more inteligent than they are.

Also, citation needed.

[Inupiatun]

We can look at Europe and more specifically the Scandinavian counties also. They have lower rates of Inequality,and higher standards of living.

[glennd7962]

Absolutely untrue. France's average standard of living is 70% of the average American, for example (using PPP), it's also true for every country in Europe, btw - the U.S. has the highest standard of living on planet. As for "inequality" - whatever you mean by that, our constitution guarantees liberty, not equality in society. More specifically, it guarantees equal treatment under the law. France seeks to provide societal equality, and has failed miserably to do so. You know nothing!

[alex3914]

This guy is justifying his accusations of low oppotunity with effects of it.

You'd normally justify with the cause to prove your point.

Just look at the graph 2:15

For instance if people hypothetically failed on purpose and that was the cause...you couldn't prove that by justifying their failure with the failure failure itself.

If I'm correct here, this guy just got his argument slapped in the face....whoo!