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YOU REALLY HAVE LOST YOUR MIND HUH??? PEACE BROTHER....ONLY GOD CAN BREAK THE CHAINS THAT HOLD YOU DOWN. JESUS IS TH LIGHT , THE TRUTH AND TH WAY.........CHESHU1 ONE DOEN NOT UNDERSTAND THAT!! WE WILL PRAY FOR YOU BROTHER AND HOPE THAT ONE DAY YOU WILL COME TO THE WELCOME TABLE. PEACE....LOVE AND .........JESUS!!!
YOU MY FRIEND ARE TWISTED. YU CANNOT SEE THE TRUTH OF JESUS BECAUSE U ARE SO CONSUMED. FREE YOURSELF FROM THE SHACKLES YOU BEAR. LET GOD TAKE CARE OF WRONGS OF THE CHURCH. FREE YOUR MIND AND YOUR SPIRIT.
NO.....WRONG AGAIN.....I WANT YOU TO TRUST IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. EVERYONE IN THE WORLD KNOW HOW RACISM CREEPED INTO ALL CHURCHES. I WILL OPENLY DISCUSS TRUTH........YOU ARE SO CONSUMED BY SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED OVER 30 YRS AGO AND EVEN 100 YRS THAT YOU ARE FAILING TO FOLLOW JESUS
WE ALL KNOW THE BIGOTRY IN THE CHURCH. THE MORMON CHURCH, THE PROTESTANT CHURCH, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH , THE BAPTIST CHURCH.....ALL CHRCHES ESCEPT THE A.M.E. CHURCHES WERE BIGOTS NO DOUBT. I NEVER DENIED IT.....JUST TELLING U LIKE IT IS TODAY. SO IF WE FOLLOW YOUR STANDARDS CHESHU1 AND STAY STUCK ON STUPID.,AND NOT ACCEPT CHANGE,.WHICH YOU SEEM NOT TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE,.LET'S CRY OUT AGAINST HAVING MLK JR'S FACE ON MT. RUSHMORE......AFTERALL HE STOOD FOR CHANGE.......APPARENTLY YOU DONT OR CANT
....AND IF YOU CANNOT LET THE PAST GO BROTHER CHESHU1 YOU HAVE ALLOWED THE DEVIL TO CONSUME YOUR VERY SOUL WITH THIS HATRED. THE CHURCH HAS MADE ITS MISTAKES, AND IT HAS AND IS MAKING IT RIGHT. DO NOT LET SUCH HATRED FILL YUR SOUL FOR IT WILL ONLY EAT YOU UP.
CHESHU1 BELONGS TO CALVERY CHAPEL...A NON-DENOMINATIONAL CHURCH. A CHURCH THAT IS NOT OFFICIALLY FORMALIZE IN THEOLOGY OR SPIRITUAL ISSUES. CHURCH THAT ENCOURAGES DESCENT OF CHRISTIANITY. A CHURCH THAT IS LABELED A"GENERAL MORALIST GROUP" AND A MILDLY CHARASMATIC GROUP. A CHURCH THAT FOCUSES ON THE GENERAL IDEALISM AND THEOLOGY INSTEAD OF THE TRUTH OF JESUS CHRIST. THAT IS WHY CHESHU1 FREELY ACCUSES OF WRONG DOINGS IN THE PAST. REPENTANCE AND AMENDS HAVE BEEN MADE LONG AGO.....SO LET IT GO
FIRST OF ALL IM NOT YO' MAMA . SECONDLY. MY POST ABOUT 800 MORMONS WE TO REFUTE YOUR CLAIM THAT NO MORMONS FOUGHT I THE CIVIL WAR. NOT ALL WERE ON THE CONFEDERATE SIDE. but u idnt know that till i had o school you again. do some research.....youth is soooo lazy . WHAT MATTERS IS JESUS WILL JUDGE THE CHURCH LEADERS BACK THEN, HE WILL JUDGE TH CHURCH LEADERS OF TODAY, OH AND GUESS WHAT.....HE WILL JUDGE YOU AND ME. FORTUNATELY I HAVE SAID NOTHING OFFENSIVE TO YOU......HAVE YOU DONE THE SAME?
@Cheshu1 YOU ARE CERTAINLY DEDICATED TO THE CAUSE OF KEEPING MEN SEPERATE! KUDOS TO YOU! I AM SURE JESUS IS QUITE UNPLEASED WITH THIS WORK. WE INVITE YOU TO THE WELCOME TABLE.......WHEN YOU ARE READY TO ACCEPT CHANGE.........I KNOW YOU ARE CONFUSED BY WHT OTHER TELL YOU BUT I KNOW THAT YOU ACCEPTED THE CHANGE WHEN SLAVERY ENDED, I KNOW U ACCEPTED THE CHANGE WHEN SEGREGATION ENDED AND I KNOW SOMEDAY YOU WILL ACCEPT THE CHANGES IN THE MORMON CHYECH.
"I HAVE SOMETHING VERY MPORTANT TO SHOW YOU PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY YOU PEOPLE OF AFRICA".......JESUS LOVES US ALL, RED AD YELLOW, BLACK AND WHITE , WE ARE ALL PRECOUS IN HIS SIGHT....JESUS FORGIVES THE EVILS IN THE WORLD IF WECOME UNTO HIM AND BE HIS DISCIPLES AND BE LIKE HIM!!!
@Cheshu1 and thus... I personally have not eaten of the tree of racism!! i cannot speak for others...just for me. each person is responsible for their own salvation. go preach this stuff to any mormon who holds on to the past as you do, I'm sure you will have a heated debate. the majority of the church does not hold these racist views any longer.
BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM......WHAT FRUITS ARE YOU PUTING FORTH HERE CHESHU1?? NOT VERY CHRISTIAN LIKE A CHRISTIAN FOLLOWS THE WORDS OF JESUS......PROPHETS PAST AND PRESENT WILL MEET GOD AND HAVE TO ASK FORGIVENESS. YOU MY BROTHER ARE TRYING TO KEEP US DIVIDED. THAT IS NOT THE WAY OF A TRUE CHRISTIAN, NOT THE WAY OF JESUS CHRIST. HE SAID "FOLLOW ME" , AS YE HAVE DONE THIS TO THE LEAST OF MY BREATHEREN, YE HAVE DONE IT UNTO ME. WHAT ARE YOU DOING MY CHRISTIAN BROTHER??
WE SHULD NOT FORGET OUR HISTORY WHETHER IT IS AFRICAN HISTORY, SLAVE HISTORY, RACISM' HISTORY. MORMON HISTORY.....WHY????? SOWE DONT REPEAT HITORY AND MAKE THE SAME HORRIBLE MISTAKES. THANK GOD THIS IS A NEW GENERATION. THANK GOD THE PRIESTHOOD WAS MADE AVAILABLE TO ALL MALES, THANK GOD THE MORMON CHURCH IS MAKING CHANGES.......CHANGE CREATES A NEW HEART, A NEW PEOPLE ND CULTURE OF ACCEPTANCE.
OBVIOUSLY YOU STILL HAVE ISSUES......HOPE U CAN WORK IT OUT AND JOIN US AT THE WELCOM TABLE
YOU SING A SAND SONG BROTHER, BUT EVERONE HAS A IMILAR STORY. MY PEOPLE sCOTTISH) WERE STRIPPED OF THEIR CULTURE, RELIGION AND LANGUAGE, LAWS WERE INSTITUED TO BREED US OUT OF THE COUNTRY THRU RAPE ETC. OUR PEOPLE WERE FALSLY INPRISONED FOR SPEAKING THEIR LANGUAGE, WEARING A KILT, PLAYING A BAGPPE, WE WERE BURNED OUT OF OUR HOMES WITH MANY STILL INSIDE. WE WERE SHACKLED, AND SENT TO AMERICA AS SLAVES, THATS RGHT THE FIRST SLAVES OF AMERICA. WE WERE CALLED DERAGATORY NAMES, FALSLY ACCUSED
WHY DONT U TALK ABOUT HOW TH WHITE MAN WAS REFERRED TO AS THE BLUE EYED DEVIL, EVEN SATAN HIMSELF. NAMES LIKE HONKEY, CRACKER, WHITEY, PECKERWOOD....... LETS TALK ABOUT BLACKS SELLING BLCKS INTO SLAVERY, WHITES SELLING WHITES INTO SLAVERY, EGYPTIANS SELLING HEBREWS INTO SLAVERY. WOMEN AND CHILDREN BEING SOLD INTO SLAVERY........YOUR RHETORIC IS SO OLD, OUTDATED AND BORING.
Cheshu1......muti continually school you on truth??? JESUS IS THE LIGHT, THE TRUTH AND THE WAY!! WE ALL FALL SHORT OFHIS GLORY! JUDGEMENT BELONGS TO GOD..NOT YOU!! THEREFORE LET GOD AND OUR LORD JESUS JUDGE BETWEEN US. I SPEAK HERE OL FOR MYSELF. EVERY PERSON HAS FREE AGENCY TO THINK AND BELIEVE IN WHAT THEY MAY. WE ALL FALL SHORT! YOU HAVE SINNED, I HAVE SINNED AND YES PROPHETS IN THIS MATTER HAVE SINNED!! ARE YOU DONE YET??
@Cheshu1 YOU APPARENTLY DONT READ THE POST OF OTHERS CUZ I GOTTA KEEP REPEATIN MYSELF AD SCHOOLIN' YOU. WANT MORE TRUTHS? MOST PEOPLE ARE OVER THE PAST!! WANT MORE?? OVER 800 DOCUMENTED MORMONS IN THE CIVIL WAR ON THE CONFEERATE SIDE. WANT MORE?? MORMON CHURCH IN AFRICA IN THE 1800'S !! WANT MORE?? NO ONE I KNOW USES THE "N" WORD" OR EVER HAS. WANT MORE??? YOU ARE NOR EVER HAVE BEEN CURSED. WANT MORE?? MORMONS INVITE ALL PEOPLES AT THE WELCOME TABLE.......WANT MORE??? JESUS WAS BLACK
NEITHER CAN THE HAND TO THE FOOT "I HAVE NO USE FOR THEE". WE ARE ALL PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST. PUT DOWN YOUR SWORD OH BROTHER AND COME TOTH WELCOME TABLE. I WILL BE THERE WAITING FOR YOU!!! LOVE MY BROTHER, FORGET THE PAST AND LOOK TOWARD GOD!!! JESUS IS OUR LIGHT AND SAVIOR!!! UNTIL WE CAN ALL COME TOGETHER JESUS WILL NOT BE PLEASED.
Cheshu1..did you forget that Jesus taught us to love one another, to turn the other cheek, to treat your brother as your self????? what are you doing here brother but bringing out oud wounds to stir up the hearts of men to anger.....
LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF. THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT IS TO LOVE GOD WITH AL THY HEART MIND AND SOUL AND THE 2ND IS LIKE UNTO IT.....LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF....I LOVE MY NEIGHBORS.....DO YOU??? OR ARE YOU A RESPECTOR OF PERSONS?
Joseph Fielding Smith; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith; the Prophet Joseph Smith had already been killed when this Prophet Joseph F. Smith became Prophet. Two different Prophets. Make sure you are speaking about the correct one. Joseph F Smith has some things twisted as did others.
once agan Cheshu1 got it mised up......Joseph Smith Jr, a true Prophet of God and Joseph F. Smith a different Prophet. In your comments about "two negroes" trying to get marrie and thus fined???? that was Jospeh F. Smith , not Joseph Smi Jr. the founder of the church...get it straight brother
@Cheshu1 did u read the foot notes????? let me help u out then since u refuse to do your own work...mama will help you.....2 Nephi 5:21 ..did cause a 'skin" of darkness to come upon them. Footnote; 2 Nephi 30:6; "scales" of darkness; footnote for "scales" spiritual darkness. it had noting to do wtih the color of ones skin.
I never said I agreed with the racail discriminatory teachings, policies.
tho Cheshu1 does have some incorrect informtion. Joseph Smith Jr. was a mna of God!!! The others had different adgenda or purpses. Mormons are taught to ask question, study and pray which I did...and at a young age of 10 new somethng was not correct, I didnot attend church then. But I will not throw out the baby with th bath water so to speak. there are a few Prophets who taught correct principles.
The first Propht , Joseph Smith Jr. a true man of God who never used derragatory words against anyone, who was an abolitionst, who ran for President of the United Stated on an ant-slavey campaign, taught new converts to the church to educate and free their slaves and treat them as equal. Joseph Joseph Smith was the true Prophet!! Many Prophets after him have said many things I personally do not agree with in regards to racism....that is why i quit going many yrs ago.....
Looks like I need o school Cheshu1......again!!! Cheshu1 wants you to believe that all his posts are current teachings of the Mormon church. Wrong! first of all the True Prohet of the Church Joseph Smith Jr. was a righteous Prophet. It enev says in the bible, many are called , but few are chosen. Joseph Smith Jr. was chosen!!! Joseph Smith was killed in 1844 many years before the "Journal of Disourses" were written. then here is another Prophet Joseph F. Smith....2 different Prophets.....
and by your fruits we know you.....Cheshu1 who places himself in a position of judge over the Mormon Church. Clearly the Bible says...Jesus will judge each man according to his heart.
I wonder what the Leaders of Cheshu1's church would say if they saw the posts here. especially the ones that have been removed by Cheshu1.......pretty bad. Pehaps I will foward this to th Leaders and ask them....is this how you teach your followers to act when someone belives differenty than they do, especially when they dont even have the whole story and can not judge fairly??? cut and paste is a wonderful tool
Dont worry about what dgantt has to say. dont worry about what Cheshu1 has to say...use your own mind.........think for yourself.......ASK GOD AND HE WILL REVEAL THE TRUTH UNTO YOU...........ASK GOD!!!! 2 nEPHI 5:21 .....did Cheshu1 forget to read all the footnotes that clarify what "skin"" means ??? if any of you lack wisdom and want to know, find a book of mormon and follow all the footnotes............
Bye my brother.....and God Bless you!! the debate was fun! but I got better things to do now. oh and by the way....i'm a female!!!!!! get it right brother!
I will debate with you all day long....an you can never change my mind or beliefs......I have the right to believe as I wish.......just like you> i allow you to beleive in your church........allow me the same
Bewre of false Prophets.....But God neve said that all Prophets were gonna be perfect and 100% right. all men are prone to err even a Prophet. That is why it is up to each person in the church to ask God and pray if a revelaton or policy or whatever is true......Anger???? not angry whatsoever........your repetitive rhetoric is boring.............old........and stale................
I do not mix the truts with lies.....we all know the church history, we also know the history of slavery, the history of politics , the history of......: move on brother. no one is denying the racism in the church..i already stated that. Im just talking about now!!! the time the pertains to me is now .....othrwise without change ..we would still be in a slave nation....THANK GOD FOR CHANGE!!!
@Cheshu1 Please do examime our Prophets......and make sure you examine the Prophet of today if you want information about what the church is all abou today!! I am not idingthe past...bring it out!! bu let;s also talk about today!! actually God wrote the Book of Mormon.....Joseph Smith merely translaed it!!! once gain, get your info correct!!! what a waste of God given time.....Cheshu1 needs a hobby!!!
@Cheshu1 con't..1970 1st Stake on the African continent organized in Johannesburg South Africa, Louis P Heferas President. 1972 Book of Mormon translated into Afrikaans. So you see Cheshu1 it is you who is actually telling the lie. The church has been in Africa from the beginning since the days of Joseph Smith. You need to come correct!!!
@Cheshu1...LDS in Africa facts. 1st mission in Johannesburg, Africa organized in 1851. in 1852 essie Haven, Leonard L. Smith and William H. Walker are called to establish the church in the Cape of Good Hope South Africa. LDS missionries arrived in Africa in 1853. 1855 LDS membership in Africa 176. 1918 membership in Africa 339. After World War II African gov't resricts number of missionaries allowed in the county. 1964 Joseph Johnson of Ghana teaches others (a missionary).
@Cheshu1..if the Mormon chruch still taught and believed that blacks could not get ino heaven then there would be no black membership. Apostles and Seventy and all leaders of the church teach the truth as they know it now. the past is gone, black membership is growing rapidly. you use youtube as a tool to hate ....find "Mormon Africa" (LDS church in Black Africa and explain if the Mormon church still teaches racism..why are there so many Africans in the church???
@Cheshu1.....WHY ARE YOU STUCK IN THE PAST?? WHY DONT YOU TALK ABOUT CURRENT EVENTS AND THEOLOGY OF THE MORMON CHURCH?? THE OLD STUFF YOU KEEP BRINGING UP IS OLD AND GONE. 1863??? GONE. 1978??? GONE. LOOK WHAT WE DOING NOW BROTHER! U SHOULD FOCUS ON CURRENT ISSUES LIKE RACIAL PROFILING OR DO SOMETHING POSITIVE FOR YOUR COMMUNITY STOP TRYING TO BREAK DOWN MY CHURCH. SPEND YOUR TIME IN A POSITIVE WAY......DO SOMETHING GOOD.......MAKE A DIFFRENCE. WHAT U ARE DOING HERE IS GETTIN U NOWHERE.
your church is non-denominational ......does not oppose denominational churches......yet here you clearly are defying your on belief system. You again speak with a forked tongue. Jesus would not do as you have done, your church leaders 'm sure would not be pleased if in fact as the Calvery
Church follows what they post as their beliefs.....or perhaps you only believe it in certain instances and you can pick and choose what denomiational churches to oppose.
@Cheshu1 who recenty disappeared cuz it got too hot in th kitchen ....Black Africans did not have the same experience that blacks here in America did, so im pretty sure their perspective is different, but maybe to be sure you should go ask someone from Africa who happens to b LDS. maybe you should even take a Black History course and learn that Black Africans sold many Blacks into slavery in the first place. or that th Scottish were actually the first Slaves in America!!!
"I have something very important to tell you people , especially you people of Africa who have missionaires coming across your borders to teach false things".
Listen to what the message is, pray to find out if it is true, ask God himself concerning past issues. Think for yourselves, you really want truth, unadulterated truth???? ASK OF GOD AND HE WILL REVEAL ALL TRUTH TO YOYOU!!! Forgiveness is essential to move forward my brothers and sisters in Africa...ASK GOD WHO IS ALL KNOWING
@Cheshu1...let's get off my religion and talk about yours!!! in all fairness I am absolutely positive I can find the same kind of past in the church you attend...and if you dont attend any church....shame on you for your judgements. Only God can judge between you and me. Do not judge your brother the Bible says....yet you judge the Mormons. Blessings to you my brother and I hope you find what you are looking for....Peace!!
I appologize......sometimes I let my passion run away with me and I say in appropriate things. Arrogant?? no, not any more than you Cheshu1 you just misunderstand what I am saying. I dont want to argue with you and defend my beliefs....you are free to believe what you want and I will believe wht I want. I have yet to meet one person during my life of being Mormon who had a good enough case against the church to change my mind. Mormons are excersizing their right to religious preferenes.
@TheSkepticChristian well. some people are simply stuck and can't work past it. If he would just get out of his own way he would realize that he is going against what the Bible teaches us to do........LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF!
that is right "Resored" Restored Prieshood, restored orinances necessary for exaltation, yes!! a higher fuller gospel!! Marriage for time and all eternity; not just til death do us art, the Mormon Church, that does not pay it's ministry. the only other church that has temples as Solomon did in the Bible. That pay tithing even as Abraham paid tihes to the Great High Priest Melchizedek, Mormons; . that was set up just as Christ's church in bibical times. Do the comparison, know for yourself!
The plea of Mormons today is to no longer look at what their past failed and false prophets and leaders have done, said and written. It has become an embarrassment to them and they are compelled to deny their prophets and leaders teachings and actions. The Mormon Church claims to be the one and only true church with a so-called “restored gospel.” They have set themselves above everyone else.
Quoting from the Mormon, dgantt951, posting below,
“MORMONISM IS NOT FOR EVERYONE, IT'S TOO SPIRIUALLY ADVANCED FOR THOSE WHO ARE SPIRITUALLY UNEDUCATED,” It does not get much more arrogant than that. But dgantt951 does not want us to look at all the garbage their false prophets and leaders have taught as truth.
If Mormons are so intent on denying their past not so wonderful esoteric teachings, what does the future in store for them, more denial?
@kjvjay we do not deny our past .....we take a hard look at them...correct them....then move forward. an you are still determined to stay in the past. Thank God for change. Thank God for Prophets of this era who uderstand that the past policies were wrong, thank God the membership has changed!! Thank God.!! You can look at the garbage from past prophets and leaders..but put the blame on those who created it..not the membership today. who is it that gives you such OLD outdated info????
@Cheshu1. all you are doing is keeping old, tired wounds open. . you claim to believe in equality?? how can this be when you continually advocate old outdated informtion that the church now denounces. you live in the past and probably are too young or weren't even born during these turbulanet racial times. The churches eyes have been opened, realizes its errors and are making amends, why do you insist on keeping racial tentions alive??? God is no respector of persons...why are you??
@Cheshu1. you have every right to be angry about the past teachigs of the church, however things have changed drastically since 1978!! racist theology is no longer taught, racist thinking is no longer accepted in the Mormon church. get some current information will ya. Let's talk about what todays Prophet says , ..the prophet of the today's era. See what Thomas S. Monson teaches, read what the Prophet before him ,Gordon B. Hinkley taught about racism., let;s get out of the past.
Documentry Channel airing in the Utah area tonight "Nobody Knows" the true story of blacks in the Mormon Church. This documentary talks about that little-known legacy, and confronts the hard issues which surfaced in the most turbulent years of the Civil Rights Movement, when the Church restricted its priesthood from those of African descent. It discusses how that restriction was lifted and what the lives and ... Watch it!!!
@Cheshu1 you give quotes from past Prohets yet conveniantly leave out the year that it was said. all your quotes are so old , pre 1978 or earlier. BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHNGS, CHSHU1 TEACHES THAT MORMONS STILL TEACH RACIST THEOLOGY, THIS IS NOT TRUE. YOU WANT TRUTH....ASK GOD, NOT MAN > . IF YOU ARE WSE , THINK FOR YOURSELF. MORMONISM IS NOT FOR EVERYONE, IT'S TOO SPIRIUALLY ADVANCED FOR THOSE WHO ARE SPIRITUALLY UNEDUCATED, SKIN COLOR DONT MATTER IN HEAVEN!
@Cheshu1 there you go again...back to th past. you keep repeating the same old rhetoric. obvoiusly you have nothing current to prove that racism or racist ideolgy still exists in the church. Those teachings are long gone! if we use your standard for judgement then let's attack all Presidents past, and present for their racism, let's attack the Presbyterian, the Catholic, the Southern Baptist and other churches who taught these same principles. let's attack the Police for still racial profiling
@dgantt951 *but than God they are being removed. CHANGE IS HAPPENING EVERYDAY!!!!! HALLELUIA!!!!*
Might I remind you that the Mormon Heavenly Father Joseph Smith clamed is nothing more than an exalted man. The God of the Bible, who J. S. denied, was, is and form eternity to eternity God. The God of the Bible was never a man that became God, but has always and always will existed as God. That is the God of the Bible and Christians.
Do as the Bible instructs in James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Read the Book fo Mormon, study, ponder and pray. ask the black leaders in the church; Listen to present day Prophets who lead the chrch today. The days of racism are long gone..Praise God for opening the eyes of the Prophets. "We shall overcome someday" . the church has overcome their racist past.
Racism was taught in all the white churches to justify slavery. It was Satan who started the lie and a majority of whites who simply believed it without seeking the truth themselves. Thank God for the truth! Thank God for the church finally realizing what role it had in racism! and today Thank God for our Prophet Gordon B. Hinkley who publically denounced racism at General Conference! Oh Happy Day!! Thank God for the change!!!! Now my children and grandchildren can receive the fulness!!!!!
if we follow the examp;e of Cheshu1 and hold on to a recist era as our measuring stick in life, we would still be in the slavery era!! Thank God for change, Thank God for opening up the eyes of the white leaders of the church and realizing that the church, not just the mormon church but all churches run by white men taught that the black man was inferior, that the clergy in every church sought out scriptures that could be interpreted to mislead people into thinking blacks were cursed.
Blacklds.org; Afro-American Historical and Genealogy Society; LDS Genesis Group; Blacks in the Scriptures (DVD); Black Mormons he Untold Story (DVD); Standing on the Promise (3 volume book series on early Black members of the church) Genesis Group Presidency ( all black ); and so much more.......times have changed since te 1800's and since 1978! Look what the church is doing now......listen to present day Prophets.....what are they saying.? Gordon B. Hinkley recent Prophet denounces racism!
many members like myself opposed the priesthood ban and didnt attend church. Today, many men of color in the Quorum; Claudio Costa from Brazil, Walter Gonzalez-Nunes from Uraguay; Jackson T Mkhabela from South Africa; Joseph Sitati a General Authority from Africa, many from South America, and other countries: if Cheshu1 is blaming our present Prophet for things that happened over 30 years ago. totally irrelevant. were u even alive 30 yrs ago Cheshu1? wherewere u in the 60's?
Cheshu1 woud have you believe that we are still living in the racit past, He would have you believe that the church has not changed......when in fact it has Cheshu1 would have you convinced that he supports the work of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and th fight for equality, yet i is Cheshu! who is judging present Prophets by what past Prophets have done. clearly Cheshu1 violates his ouwn standards. Judge not a man by the color of his skin but by the content of his characer.
that' all I gotta say on this matter. dont be stuck in the past. all chuches have been wrong in this matter..........move on......WE are all his children and just like the Prophet Gordon B. Hinkley said......racism will not be tolerated, yo cannot call yourself a disciple of God if you treat another differently based on skin color. I love this Prophet for he spake the truth: and the trut will set you free!!!!
and why is there so much growth an acceptance.......because the
gospel of Jesus Christ is true, the Book of Mormon is true!! dont be a follower lik those in the 1800's and just believed what the prophet said or their friend.......search out the truth for yourself....Read...Ponder...and Pray! God is the onl way and He will tell you if the church is true or not. are you a follower?? or wil you use your intelligence to kow for yourself......ASK GOD IF THIS CHURCH IS TRUE!!!!!!
we can never forget what racisms were taught witin the church; yes it was wrong to base salvation on skin color.......can't change the past, butwe are certainly changing the present and future. since 1978....more black prieshood holders, black membership grows, Bishorics with men of color, Apostles, men of color, Black history celebrations, Junteenth celcbrations, plays depicting earl lack pioneers, gospel music.......and so much more....things have chaned Halleluia!!
you keep repeating the same old rhetoric..........flip the page brother. Change is happening every day. you kno how many Africans are members of the church today????? thousands upon thousads. your feeble attempts to disuade them will only influence a spiritually weak mind.
Read the Book of Mormon, pray wit real intent and know for yurself if these things are true. do not take it fom me nor from Cheshu1, God is all knowing......ask and ye shall receive; knock and it shall be opened to you
Science makes new discoveries everyday, science and medicine find iformation t make things more clear. the church has more unerstaning and is trying to rectify tose wrongs. Racism, bigotry ad old teachings in the church were the work of men and not of God. you must learn to seperate the two. even a Prophet can be led astay and it is the responsibiity of each member to pray and ask God if these things are true. too many will just follow.
so much hatred my brother! wh do you insist on ignoring the changes that have occured? The Leadership of the Church has appologized for its roe in racism, the church is making amends, reaching out,. In a racist era most whites believed in the curses that were taught, but we know that they are incorrect, the church is trying to change that. Yes the devil was very active in twisting the minds of the saints, but now the church understands. All references to skin color have been removed
I cannot explain slavery, bigorty or racisms that occured in the past any more than you Cheshu1 can explain why God's chosen people were enslaved by the Egyptians for hundreds of years.
you were sent here to "unite culures??? lol you are not uniting us with your continual discussions on racism, discussions from the past. this is 2011, keep up with the times and current policiesand teachings of the mormon church. "how dare you do this to my people" ?? put a picture of a beutiful black woman perhaps in deep thought, concern , a place we all have been?? u may be reading too much into the picture, "they're coming??? get your ....correct?? Jesus doesn' t swear......Y R U??
this onversation is B O R I N G!!! same old drag............today's Mormons....we got it going on. check us out if you dare.....change has come and its all good. dont get left behind cuz you too busy worrin' 'bout the past. Its a new day in the Mormon church. I can send you a copy of "Blacks in the Scriptures" DVD which was recently approved to use in Seminary and Institue classes. a DVD made by and for Black LDS and to educate the white members. I dare you to check it out!!!
why dont you do something positie with your time. why dont you find out why Gladys Knight is a Mormon or former Black Panther leader Eldrige Cleaver or so many other prominent black leaders in the world??? Blacks with degrees, intelligent men of color who have joined the church??
surely you would be wise enough to know that a change of acceptance and reversal of old beliefs would be pleasing to you.???? wont you accept the positive changes that are being and have been made???? MLKing's work is not done, racism is alive and well in every sector of life. each man is responsible for their own actions and heart and how they treat their brother. ad how do you see yourself treating the mormons???
The general position of the chuch is not racist, those who are will meet God
The church is making changes......positive changes in regard to African Americans. trying to build bridges. I speak onlyfor myself and my experience , not for the church, that is for the Prophet. so my last post was quoted from a recent Prophet in the church, Gordon B. Hinkley . racismis wrong, all churches back then felt the same. Thank God for positie change. So I ask brother, will you be part of the positive change or stay stuck in the 1800"s. without change there is no progress.
"I remind you that no man who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ," said President Hinckley. "How can any man holding the Melchizedek Priesthood arrogantly assume that he is eligible for the priesthood whereas another who lives a righteous life but whose skin is of a different color, is ineligible?" this directly from a Prophet of the church.
@Cheshu1 how can you possibly know the heart and mind of a mormon> do you even know a mormon?? let alone a black mormon??? you are generalizing again. and you are so quick to judge the mormon but you conveniently forget that God said not to judge another , not to hate another but to love. what are you doing??? pure judgemental and hateful towards mormons who are Gods children too!! shame on you for placing judging another.
you are soewhat correct about the churches pst but you have some facts incorrect. Blacks will be in charge one day in LDS church........where you gonna be?????? stuck in the 1800's. so i gotta go to work now, pray brother and ask if things have not changed in the mormon churh, look around you, see how the faces of mormonism have changed. WE SHALL OVERCOME, AND BE THE CHOSEN PEOPLE OF GOD.....Get wth it!!
and i did not follow. i can only speak for my and from my experience. it is a new day in the LDS church, the face of its people is quickly changing. dont get left behing cuz ur stuck in the 1800's.
Jesus is the Light, yo keep going back to the 1800's.......get out of the past brother and set yoursef free!!! the days of this kind of backward thinking in the church has gonw. "Genesis"is a program specifically for black members of the church to prepare for the ushering in of Jesus at e 2nd coming.
i could discuss the matter but it was never asked of me. I can only say that even Prophets can misinterpret, misundrstand if tey are not careful. that is why it is important for every member to pray and ask God if what they hear is correct. many just follow whatever they hear and dont understand the Prophets are human and can make mistakes. Only God has abolute truth.
oh my gosh........get out of the slave era!!!!! we could point fingers all day long about every church except the A.M.E churches back then. WHERE WIL YOU STAND WHEN THE LDS CHURCH, THE BLACK MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH ARE THE MAIN LEADERSHIP. WILL YOU STILL BE TALKIN; THE SAME'OLTALK,.......GET A CLUE , GOD IS CALLING YOU , THERE' A CHANGE GOIN' N AND YOU GONNA MISS IT CUZ YOU ARE STUCK IN THE 1800's. Do you still ride the bus????? or do you protest it because of segrgation laws?? c'mon......
get out of the 1800's. Are you gonna be still taking about these old tiresome issues when Blacks are preparing even today in te church to be th leaders in t chuch??? where will you be standing brother when Blacks usher in the 2nd coming of Jesus??? many in the LDS church understands this..do you??? gt out of the pst , it is holding you back for the changes about to come!!!
there have been and are now Apostles of color....do some research wil ya!!! and i do know the answer....God is no respctor o persons!! but too bad that man, even prophet can be wrong and lead others to destruction. it is those who pray and really know the truth that get past all this racial mess. sorry brother, my faily is black and we remain LDS. Our people will usher in the Last Days ......hope you understand it before it all happens; Blacks will be first and whites will be last.
false prophets did come and decieve, they deceived even you. white doesnt necessarily refer toskin color. that's the problem with America...too wrapped up in te color of skin. stop living in the slave era and catch up to the rest of us.
Joseph Smth was an abolitionist....after that , yes things changed. get things in perspective will ya. after Jospeh Smith was killed policies were put in place to ban th priesthood and keep my black brothers and sister supressed. and what scripture can you supply that says that the white man is the chosen seed???????
and when my black brothers and sisters out number thewhites in the church, there will be a cleansing , seperating the wheat from the tares. It is the Black race that will usher in the return of Jesus to the earth and those who are racist will have no part. I will stay in my church , I will support the effort and rejoice when my brothers and sisters of color take charge...........
@Cheshu1. I know Jesus very well thank you. and yes He judges the heart. Unfortunately man has gotten it twisted. I dont hav things twisted brother. Jesus is the only way. Noah had 3 sons; Shem , Japheth and Ham, from these 3 we are all descendant, form father Noah. the first 2000 yrs Shem's people reigned, Japheth's psterity now and soon we will be ushering in the era of Ham's posterity. the firs shall be last; and th last shall be first.
@Cheshu1 I never was trying to excuse any racism within thechurch. I abhor it. I quit attending church because of it. the face of the Mormon church has changed, thre ar mow more mambers of color tan whites now. during that era racism was abundant, it was the Civil War Era, no church accepted blacks except the mormon church. then the Prophet was murdered. the Chuch is not perfect. Your church is not perfect. But things have changed since then.
@Cheshu1 oh my gosh...you really dont know history do you. 1st Klan 1865-1870's with 550,000 members. 2nd Klan 1915-1944 over 2 million members. 34d Klan since 1946. I will not stoop to calling you liar, I wll however state that you lack the knowledge for this subject. again ..do yo homework.
@Cheshu1 do some researh brother! you apparently are stuck in a religious era when all churces excpet the A.M.E. churches kept blacks out of hte church. racism was abundant bck then. Howevver it was he Mormon church durng this time that freely allowed blacks into thechuch, baptised them and gave the priesthood men f color. Ever hear of Elijah Abel?? Walker Lewis and other black men who received the Priesthood? do your homework bruh!
@Cheshu1 the church obeys the laws of the land. It was against the law for "negroes" to marry white women. the mormon church did not make the laws of the land!!! however Jospeh Smith did talk wih the President of the United States and asked for slavery to b abolished, when the President refused.....Joseph Smith ran for President on an anti-slavery campaign. the KKK hated the Mormons for they were abolitionists and were tarred and feathered and burned out of their homes because of it
tis i only one book you refer to: there are others, Take for exmple the book "Gospel Prnciples" more tham half of the pictures are of people of color. and in fa the chaper about eterna marriage.......the accmpanying picture is a Black couple. Joseph Smith taught against slavery, he ordaied Black men to the Priesthood, he fought for slavery to end. get your info correct!
@Cheshu1 LoL your arguments are so Biased, and the bible says not to judge dude. Whats wrong with you??? Are you mad that slavery can be found in the old testament??
@johnny123springer it is clearly you who have not done your reading of either book.........ever hear of Genesis??? Prophet Gordon B. Hinkley who denounced racism??? get a clue......and ya;ll need to get "your stuff correct"!!!
@Cheshu1 Not every statement uttered by a Prophet is/was doctrine. The Bible is full of such examples. Your ignorance of both the Bible and LDS history doesn't make mormon nor Biblical prophets "filthy". It makes you a perverter of the truth, for your own wicked means of destroying other believers, going against Christ's Words in Mark/Luke 9. He has harsh words for people like you, the destroyers of Faith, who serve satan, when they think they are serving God and truth. Read the chapters.
@Cheshu1 No such thing as an "infallible" prophet. You also pervert the Word. The people don't have to believe something that is false, mormons have not. Not everything a prophet says is Gods Word. I was in this religion pre-1978, & most others. Mormons were the most tolerant save the Catholics of ANY of them. So tolerant, that I didn't even know of the Priesthood ban until it was lifted. You enjoy your bearing false witness, quote mining. It will make you nothing but an ignorant bigot.
@Cheshu1 Also read this and get a clue what the Bible itself actually says about the "infallibility" of Prophets.... en dot fairmormondotorg/Fallibility_of_prophets
@Cheshu1 Then you must deny the Bible..... For Prophets and Apostles of the Bible errored and were corrected by either God, Christ, or another Apostle such as Peter. Your ignorance of what the Bible actually teaches only shows your man-made religion. Read this article and learn what the Bible actually says about discerning true and false prophets. en dot fairmormondotorg/Biblical_Keys_for_Discerning_True_and_False_Prophets
@Cheshu1 Further, your quote mining of finding maybe 30 negative and/or bad quotes from 180 years of a fully documented LDS history, doesn't prove your case of racism. All it shows is that you are willing to quote only the history which makes your case, while ignoring the 100,000's of other quotes which would destroy your case. That makes you a liar, making you a servant of the devil. Nothing is new to me, I left this church for the same ignorance. But, I was so very wrong, you are worse.
@Cheshu1 Now, if mormons were pro-slavery, had white only bathrooms, hung black men from trees, supported the KKK, & all kinds of other clear evils related to the evils of racism, then you would have a case. But you have none! All you have from SOME past mormon INDIVIDUALS is mostly some "ethno-centrism". Not everyone who was ethno-centrist did so for racist reasons, but cultural reasons, ignorant or not. There is every evidence in creation against your claim of racism by the Church.
@Cheshu1 Again I ask you, was God and Christ racist, pro-slavery, etc. when the Gospel and Priesthood was denied to others as recorded in the Bible, as well as NEVER condemning slavery, even dictating how to treat slaves? Those who believed the earth was flat, were they evil, or just ignorant of that thing? You can't judge ignorance and lack of knowledge on those of the past as being evil, racist, etc.
@Cheshu1 See my previous posts, & deal with the facts. Your history quote, so what? People of the past reasonably believed that it was wrong to mix races, not just with blacks either. Jews also believed it was wrong to marry outside of their race, where they racist also? Sure, by our modern standards there's no good reason other than potential cultural problems, resulting in divorce (I know because it also happened to me). Our more intelligent standards doesn't make those of the past evil.
@Cheshu1 Bottom line, is you can't judge people of the past by MODERN standards. Do you even know that there is not a single statement in the Bible of God or other condemning slavery? There are only statements how to treat slaves. Even Christ didn't condemn slavery. You going to call Christ evil & racist because he supported slavery? You can't judge good people of the past by modern standard. Current social conventions do not make a person or group evil/racist. Stop bearing false witness!
@Cheshu1 Do you even study history? Anyone that knows history knows that blacks back in those times acted dumb. Of course, it wasn't necessarily their fault, that's how they were raised, but that's just "observation", not anything "racist". His statement is based on an LDS doctrine that who we are in this life is related to who we were in the pre-mortal life. It wasn't unreasonable to see the black man back then & think there might be some relation. Some wrong judgment, not unreasonable.
@Cheshu1 That was his personal opinion..... Lot's of people have opinions in history, and he was a man of his times. MANY people believed the same thing, not just mormons. The idea after all did not originate from mormons idiot. Opinions of individuals do not make a religion, nor a people. You want to make me own past wrongs of individuals of my religion, does that mean YOU OWN the murders, the rapes, the property theft of 1000's of YOUR kind of the past? I doubt it.
@Cheshu1 God had HIS reasons for the ban. Me, I see them, but I didn't once, was ignorant of scripture & the actual facts of the ban, just like you are. Your ignorance does not make racism by the Church. Believe me, I wouldn't have rejoined the Church if it actually was racist, and wasn't God's True Church on the earth in the last days. I have no interest in man-made religion. You know a "little", and think you're smart. Really you know just enough to be dumb, not enough to know the truth.
@Cheshu1 And as I've already said before, it wasn't a ban against "blacks", but only those of African lineage. ALL other blacks of other races and cultures were given the Priesthood. Christ wasn't a racist when he while alive would only give the Gospel to the Jews (save the couple of exceptions). God and Moses wasn't "racist" when only a particular Tribe (lineage) was allowed to have the Priesthood, and all others were restricted, not to mention the gentiles being restricted.
@Cheshu1 Not only that, but it's a wart that's been removed..... Even further, it wasn't an "actual" wart, it was just a skin spot. The actual warts were the humans involved who sometimes said wrong. And it's not as much as you think. 90% of the so-called "wrong" statements are misrepresenting out of context lies promoted by your kind, as I already showed you. The priesthood ban itself, was due to the racism in the world, not by the Church.
@Cheshu1 Even anti-semitic groups have condemned anti-mormon bigots like you. Do you really think that pre-1978, that if the Church was actually so "racist", that JFK wouldn't have thought so well of it? Do you really think the same time, the Author and creator of the book and movie "Roots", would have went to and accepted honors and recognition from the Church? You are a ignorant bigot. You see a wart on a good human being, and you want to murder that human being. Shame on YOU!!!
@Cheshu1 Mormons never drove a people from state to state, murdering, raping, & taking property. Mormons never burned heretics at the stake like Protestants and Catholics did to each other. Mormons never encouraged or supported slavery, like your kind did. Mormons never on and on. But, ignorant bigots LIKE YOU most certainly have done all these things. Your rhetoric against mormons is only one step away from the Mobs and murderers of the past, who said the same damnable lies. Repent!
@Cheshu1 Contrary to your analogy, the ACTUAL truthful analogy of this religion, is that the religion is a pristine car, in and out..... It is only the DRIVERS who have at times had faults. More importantly, our faults NEVER and never to the degree rose to the faults that have been in YOUR religions of history. The monstrous things you did and said to blacks, to other religions, to other people. Those who actually know history, contrary to you, know that Mormons were SAINTS by comparison.
@Cheshu1 I'm a convert, after being in most other religions. I even left the Church, & was anti-mormon & anti-religion primarily for the priesthood issue. So, don't tell me what "I'm" like. I know well what I'm like, what my religion ACTUALLY is like, contrary to your lies, & more importantly what YOU are like. You serve the father of lies, that is your heart. You have no interest in the actual truth, because you have no faith to seek it, believing instead the easy lie & the easy hate.
@Cheshu1 Read the talk, and see that everything I've said is true, and that you're just a brainwashed ignorant bigot. Brigham talks about the evils done against indians, to the church, to blacks, and even mentions the events I mentioned when the Church was abolitionist, and it was driven from place to place by racist pro-slavery scum. You don't know anything. You don't study and learn, you're a sheep brainwashed by bigots.
@Cheshu1 Read the speech, it's actually good in context. Read the next statement, where he says he's neither abolitionist NOR pro-slavery. That he hates the conduct of those, as he hates the gates of hell. So much more does he state that is good. But, you are ignorant of this, because you only focus on drive-by anti-mormon quotes, words out of context & meaning. Not saying no LDS, especially Brigham Young has never said anything wrong nor ethno-centrist, but an individual is not a religion.
@Cheshu1 Did you actually read the talk in question? It's long, it was POLITICAL focused, in the context of the Church defending itself against evil conspiring men who questioned their patriotism, who were striving to dictate that the LDS law of Plural Marriage was illegal, men who called for the extinction of the mormons, even though the Church supported the Constitution, & went to war when called. His speech was of chastisement & anger toward the government over-stepping it's bounds.
@Cheshu1 Easy, it's called not bearing false witness by taking quotes out of their context. Why don't you quote anything positive from LDS history? To every negative thing said by some mormon on a subject from a large well recorded history, there are 100,000 positive things on the same subject. Why do you enjoy being like the KKK, Fanatical Islam, David Duke his Jews hate Christians malarkey, liberals, & every other bigot out their on their target? Do you comprehend what lying is?
@Cheshu1 Further, there is no mormon who has ever claimed that some mormons in history never said anything offensive or wrong. Such has nothing to do with the religion itself. Much worse existed in other religions. Mormons were actually enlightened by comparison. We never segregated members, the religion taught tolerance, mormons were abolitionists, the ban only applied to those of "African" decent, including whites, NOT "blacks". Plenty of blacks of other races WERE given the Priesthood.
@Cheshu1 You can't take things out of context & meaning & then think you are telling the truth. Facts are not "truth". Only the full facts are the truth. That statement is referring to a doctrine related to the pre-mortal life, that who we are in this life is related to who we were in the pre-mortal life. The statement applies to ALL peoples and circumstances. Thus, you trying to rip one statement from history when the idea was also applied to black circumstance is bearing false witness.
why waist yo time with mormons, they are demonic dracons from DRACO. they do the sorcery for the vatican and its rituals on birth certificates on every child born in the USA corp. stop worrying about Demons and do yo. Peace
@johnny123springer You should not confuse the perversions and falsehoods of the liars of the world, liberals and anti-mormons, as the LDS Church and it's people as actually having been "racist". And let me explain something SCUMBAG!!! I once left the Church because of the Priesthood ban and Polygamy, and was anti-mormon and anti-religion. But, I was ignorant like you. Fortunately, I kept learning, while you do not. YOU are the actual bigot by bearing false witness.
@johnny123springer The ban did not apply to "blacks". It applied to those of African decent. Blacks of other races were given the Priesthood. I.e. India, Central/South America, Islands, etc. A truly racist religion would have been racist against blacks period, not a specific sub-group. Were those of the Old Testament racist when only certain lineages could also hold the Priesthood (Tribes)? Was Christ racist denying the Gospel to non-Jews, requiring a Revelation to Peter AFTER his death?
@johnny123springer Actually, pre-1978 the LDS Church along with the Catholic Church was the LEAST racist of any Church that I had attended, and I attended many, including black churches. In fact, the Church was then (and still is) so non-racist, that I didn't even know the ban existed until the ban was lifted. That's how tolerant it was in it's teachings, it's people, etc. Some out of context quotes pulled from history does not an entire religion, nor the religion itself make.
@johnny123springer No they don't..... They say they have a "skin of blackness" on them, etc. And if you weren't a moron like all anti-mormons are, you would know ancient records and scriptures often use such terminology to describe something. In nearly every case in the BOM the skin reference is referring to their "countenances", not their skin color. Even the Bible does the same thing, just different wording.
What a moron..... Trying to claim racism from one pamphlet. Idiot doesn't know that there are books, pamphlets, videos, etc. that show the blacks as happy family and whites or otherwise with the sad face. It's just a pamphlet idiot.... Not meant to portray every reality and truth about those within the Church. Only a complete mental reject moron would try to claim racism like that.
Joseph Smith ran for President with a platform that included the abolition of slavery. Elijah Abel (a black man) was ordained to the LDS priesthood on March 3, 1836. Walker Lewis (a black man) was ordained to the LDS priesthood in 1843. There are others as well who received the priesthood prior to the 1970s (I just don't have the names offhand), and there has NEVER been a restriction on membership/baptism/eternal-rewards based on skin color.
The family responsible for desegregation in public American schools is Mormon (the Brown family of Topeka, Kansas). A key Black Panther leader became Mormon. My best friend is black AND Mormon. Most Mormons are NOT even white! My uncle died in God's service to the people of Africa--he was Mormon. My neighbors gave years of their life working in hospitals in Africa--they are Mormon. Your video is misleading. I have plenty of Mormon published material depicting black families.
@alethiaaeterna Don't CRY MORmON the truth is out here,YOUR IN A RACIST CULT!Read the WORDS of your LDS MORmON PROPHET Brigham Young!
"I would like the President of the United States and all the world to hear this.Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the AFRICAN RACE? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain (BLACKS),the penalty,under the law of God, is death on the spot.This will always be so..." Journal of Discourses, Volume 10, page 110.
@TruthSeeker211 If you don't take the quote out of context, Brigham is defending woman against rape: “a condemnation of abuse and rape of helpless black women, and not an overtly racist statement condemning interracial marriage,”
@alethiaaeterna you are a MORmON!Nothing is took out of context READ what is the LAW OF GOD TO YOUR RACIST MORmON PROPHET about the BLACK AFRICAN RACE!
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot..." Journal of Discourses, Volume 10, page 110.
@TruthSeeker211 If you don't take the quote out of context, Brigham is defending black women against rape: “a condemnation of abuse and rape of helpless black women, and not an overtly racist statement condemning interracial marriage,” When slavery was legal, it was not uncommon for slave owners to rape their slaves. Brigham Young was alimentally against this, hence the quote by him. Thanks for defending Brigham in his fight against rape of black women.
@HatchetDimitri Most Mormons are not white...they are people of color living outside the USA (55%). What are these Africans, Pacific Islanders, Latin Americans, Asians, Central Americans, and so on afraid of? Probably ruthless dictators, food shortages, lack of healthcare, a lack of work and education caused by corrupt governments. The LDS church gives them a way out. They receive money for school from the Mormon church, life-saving immunizations, food, and employment help.
@HatchetDimitri@HatchetDimitri Most Mormons are not white...they are people of color living outside the USA (55%). What are these Africans, Pacific Islanders, Latin Americans, Asians, Central Americans, and so on afraid of? Probably ruthless dictators, food shortages, lack of healthcare, a lack of work and education caused by corrupt governments. The LDS church gives them a way out. They receive money for school from the Mormon church, life-saving immunizations, food, and employment help.
@TruthSeeker211 come on now......how many white men..........who have mixed it up have actually died??? this is all Satans scheme to keep the races apart and a way to justify slavery and seperatism. come on!!! do some research will ya. The Journal of Discourses never was the word of God or Doctrine of the LDS church
@dganttable before you open your mouth do some research.
“The Journal of Discourses deservedly ranks as one of the standard works of the Church, and every rightminded Saint will certainly welcome with joy every number (issue) as it comes forth.“ (LDS MORmON Apostle George Q. Cannon, Journal of Discourses, Preface, Volume 8.)
George Quayle Cannon was an early member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and served in the First Presidency under four successive presidents...
@TruthSeeker211 the discourses are not the word of God but the utterances of man. they are not scripture, never were and never will be, they are not one of the 4 Standard Works which are, if you did YOUR homework....The Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. Obviously of which you have never read.
Are just kidding around or are you just an idiot? Have you even read that pamphlet, the picture of that section has to do with repentance, and it goes for EVERYBODY REGARDLESS OF THEIR RACE, they did not put a black person there with the intention of it being for blacks, and definitely not that they are not accepted, because they are accepted. Maybe you should look at some other media the LDS church has. There is a pass-a-long card I can think of right now with a happy black couple. How dare you
@michaelgrella I think he is using it for illustration purposes, but you cannot deny that mormons are on a PR campaign to bring more blacks, especially american blacks into mormonism.
@TruthSeeker211 Look, i don't know if the children of Canaan are todays black people (it's not the doctrine of the church that they are), and even if they were, look how true that is, look at the time before MLK, so many people hated black people with there guts, but that doesn't mean that black people are evil, we belief in what called the Articles of Faith, the 2nd states "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression."
@michaelgrella This is your MORmON Doctrine of todays BLACKS read!
...Cain...HE BECAME THE FATHER OF AN INFERIOR RACE...MILLIONS OF SOULS HAVE COME INTO THIS WORLD CURSED WITH A BLACK SKIN and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood..."(The Way to Perfection,Joseph Fielding Smith,pages 101-102.)
Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the negroes, and those spirits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born through his lineage..."Mormon Doctrine 1966 page 109.
@michaelgrella see what your MORmON CULT teaches about BLACK people is EVIL!
" ... At least in the cases of the LAMANITES and the NEGROES we have the definite word of the Lord Himself that He placed a DARK SKIN upon them as a CURSE ... (Race Problems--As They Affect the Church, August 27, 1954, address at CES convention at Brigham Young University)
Joseph Smith:
"...The Lamanites...were CURSED with a SKIN of DARKNESS..."
:The Latter-Day Saints Millennial Star,vol.14, p. 418 "
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CounterCultureLives 2 months ago
YOU REALLY HAVE LOST YOUR MIND HUH??? PEACE BROTHER....ONLY GOD CAN BREAK THE CHAINS THAT HOLD YOU DOWN. JESUS IS TH LIGHT , THE TRUTH AND TH WAY.........CHESHU1 ONE DOEN NOT UNDERSTAND THAT!! WE WILL PRAY FOR YOU BROTHER AND HOPE THAT ONE DAY YOU WILL COME TO THE WELCOME TABLE. PEACE....LOVE AND .........JESUS!!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
YOU MY FRIEND ARE TWISTED. YU CANNOT SEE THE TRUTH OF JESUS BECAUSE U ARE SO CONSUMED. FREE YOURSELF FROM THE SHACKLES YOU BEAR. LET GOD TAKE CARE OF WRONGS OF THE CHURCH. FREE YOUR MIND AND YOUR SPIRIT.
dgantt951 5 months ago
NO.....WRONG AGAIN.....I WANT YOU TO TRUST IN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. EVERYONE IN THE WORLD KNOW HOW RACISM CREEPED INTO ALL CHURCHES. I WILL OPENLY DISCUSS TRUTH........YOU ARE SO CONSUMED BY SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED OVER 30 YRS AGO AND EVEN 100 YRS THAT YOU ARE FAILING TO FOLLOW JESUS
dgantt951 5 months ago
THE TRAIN GONNA LEAVE YO BROTHR..........FLIP THE PAGE....SAVE YOURSELF........YOU NOR I CAN CHANGE THE PAST
dgantt951 5 months ago
WE ALL KNOW THE BIGOTRY IN THE CHURCH. THE MORMON CHURCH, THE PROTESTANT CHURCH, THE CATHOLIC CHURCH , THE BAPTIST CHURCH.....ALL CHRCHES ESCEPT THE A.M.E. CHURCHES WERE BIGOTS NO DOUBT. I NEVER DENIED IT.....JUST TELLING U LIKE IT IS TODAY. SO IF WE FOLLOW YOUR STANDARDS CHESHU1 AND STAY STUCK ON STUPID.,AND NOT ACCEPT CHANGE,.WHICH YOU SEEM NOT TO BE ABLE TO HANDLE,.LET'S CRY OUT AGAINST HAVING MLK JR'S FACE ON MT. RUSHMORE......AFTERALL HE STOOD FOR CHANGE.......APPARENTLY YOU DONT OR CANT
dgantt951 5 months ago
I HAVE NO ANGETMY BROTHER I AM AT PEACE WITH GOD
dgantt951 5 months ago
I NEVER SAID ANY MORMONS KILLED ANYONE......NO ONE WOULD KNOW THAT FOR A FACT...SO LETS STICK TO THE FACTS...IF YOU INDED HAVE ANY
dgantt951 5 months ago
....AND IF YOU CANNOT LET THE PAST GO BROTHER CHESHU1 YOU HAVE ALLOWED THE DEVIL TO CONSUME YOUR VERY SOUL WITH THIS HATRED. THE CHURCH HAS MADE ITS MISTAKES, AND IT HAS AND IS MAKING IT RIGHT. DO NOT LET SUCH HATRED FILL YUR SOUL FOR IT WILL ONLY EAT YOU UP.
dgantt951 5 months ago
CHESHU1 BELONGS TO CALVERY CHAPEL...A NON-DENOMINATIONAL CHURCH. A CHURCH THAT IS NOT OFFICIALLY FORMALIZE IN THEOLOGY OR SPIRITUAL ISSUES. CHURCH THAT ENCOURAGES DESCENT OF CHRISTIANITY. A CHURCH THAT IS LABELED A"GENERAL MORALIST GROUP" AND A MILDLY CHARASMATIC GROUP. A CHURCH THAT FOCUSES ON THE GENERAL IDEALISM AND THEOLOGY INSTEAD OF THE TRUTH OF JESUS CHRIST. THAT IS WHY CHESHU1 FREELY ACCUSES OF WRONG DOINGS IN THE PAST. REPENTANCE AND AMENDS HAVE BEEN MADE LONG AGO.....SO LET IT GO
dgantt951 5 months ago
FIRST OF ALL IM NOT YO' MAMA . SECONDLY. MY POST ABOUT 800 MORMONS WE TO REFUTE YOUR CLAIM THAT NO MORMONS FOUGHT I THE CIVIL WAR. NOT ALL WERE ON THE CONFEDERATE SIDE. but u idnt know that till i had o school you again. do some research.....youth is soooo lazy . WHAT MATTERS IS JESUS WILL JUDGE THE CHURCH LEADERS BACK THEN, HE WILL JUDGE TH CHURCH LEADERS OF TODAY, OH AND GUESS WHAT.....HE WILL JUDGE YOU AND ME. FORTUNATELY I HAVE SAID NOTHING OFFENSIVE TO YOU......HAVE YOU DONE THE SAME?
dgantt951 5 months ago
Cheshu1...........I;m done,,,,,talk to yourself cuz no one is listening
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1 YOU ARE CERTAINLY DEDICATED TO THE CAUSE OF KEEPING MEN SEPERATE! KUDOS TO YOU! I AM SURE JESUS IS QUITE UNPLEASED WITH THIS WORK. WE INVITE YOU TO THE WELCOME TABLE.......WHEN YOU ARE READY TO ACCEPT CHANGE.........I KNOW YOU ARE CONFUSED BY WHT OTHER TELL YOU BUT I KNOW THAT YOU ACCEPTED THE CHANGE WHEN SLAVERY ENDED, I KNOW U ACCEPTED THE CHANGE WHEN SEGREGATION ENDED AND I KNOW SOMEDAY YOU WILL ACCEPT THE CHANGES IN THE MORMON CHYECH.
dgantt951 5 months ago
"I HAVE SOMETHING VERY MPORTANT TO SHOW YOU PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY YOU PEOPLE OF AFRICA".......JESUS LOVES US ALL, RED AD YELLOW, BLACK AND WHITE , WE ARE ALL PRECOUS IN HIS SIGHT....JESUS FORGIVES THE EVILS IN THE WORLD IF WECOME UNTO HIM AND BE HIS DISCIPLES AND BE LIKE HIM!!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
WHY DOES CHESHU1 KEEP HIDING HIS POSTS??? ITERESTING HUH???
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1 and thus... I personally have not eaten of the tree of racism!! i cannot speak for others...just for me. each person is responsible for their own salvation. go preach this stuff to any mormon who holds on to the past as you do, I'm sure you will have a heated debate. the majority of the church does not hold these racist views any longer.
dgantt951 5 months ago
BY THEIR FRUITS YE SHALL KNOW THEM......WHAT FRUITS ARE YOU PUTING FORTH HERE CHESHU1?? NOT VERY CHRISTIAN LIKE A CHRISTIAN FOLLOWS THE WORDS OF JESUS......PROPHETS PAST AND PRESENT WILL MEET GOD AND HAVE TO ASK FORGIVENESS. YOU MY BROTHER ARE TRYING TO KEEP US DIVIDED. THAT IS NOT THE WAY OF A TRUE CHRISTIAN, NOT THE WAY OF JESUS CHRIST. HE SAID "FOLLOW ME" , AS YE HAVE DONE THIS TO THE LEAST OF MY BREATHEREN, YE HAVE DONE IT UNTO ME. WHAT ARE YOU DOING MY CHRISTIAN BROTHER??
dgantt951 5 months ago
WE SHULD NOT FORGET OUR HISTORY WHETHER IT IS AFRICAN HISTORY, SLAVE HISTORY, RACISM' HISTORY. MORMON HISTORY.....WHY????? SOWE DONT REPEAT HITORY AND MAKE THE SAME HORRIBLE MISTAKES. THANK GOD THIS IS A NEW GENERATION. THANK GOD THE PRIESTHOOD WAS MADE AVAILABLE TO ALL MALES, THANK GOD THE MORMON CHURCH IS MAKING CHANGES.......CHANGE CREATES A NEW HEART, A NEW PEOPLE ND CULTURE OF ACCEPTANCE.
OBVIOUSLY YOU STILL HAVE ISSUES......HOPE U CAN WORK IT OUT AND JOIN US AT THE WELCOM TABLE
dgantt951 5 months ago
YOU SING A SAND SONG BROTHER, BUT EVERONE HAS A IMILAR STORY. MY PEOPLE sCOTTISH) WERE STRIPPED OF THEIR CULTURE, RELIGION AND LANGUAGE, LAWS WERE INSTITUED TO BREED US OUT OF THE COUNTRY THRU RAPE ETC. OUR PEOPLE WERE FALSLY INPRISONED FOR SPEAKING THEIR LANGUAGE, WEARING A KILT, PLAYING A BAGPPE, WE WERE BURNED OUT OF OUR HOMES WITH MANY STILL INSIDE. WE WERE SHACKLED, AND SENT TO AMERICA AS SLAVES, THATS RGHT THE FIRST SLAVES OF AMERICA. WE WERE CALLED DERAGATORY NAMES, FALSLY ACCUSED
dgantt951 5 months ago
WHY DONT U TALK ABOUT HOW TH WHITE MAN WAS REFERRED TO AS THE BLUE EYED DEVIL, EVEN SATAN HIMSELF. NAMES LIKE HONKEY, CRACKER, WHITEY, PECKERWOOD....... LETS TALK ABOUT BLACKS SELLING BLCKS INTO SLAVERY, WHITES SELLING WHITES INTO SLAVERY, EGYPTIANS SELLING HEBREWS INTO SLAVERY. WOMEN AND CHILDREN BEING SOLD INTO SLAVERY........YOUR RHETORIC IS SO OLD, OUTDATED AND BORING.
dgantt951 5 months ago
Cheshu1......muti continually school you on truth??? JESUS IS THE LIGHT, THE TRUTH AND THE WAY!! WE ALL FALL SHORT OFHIS GLORY! JUDGEMENT BELONGS TO GOD..NOT YOU!! THEREFORE LET GOD AND OUR LORD JESUS JUDGE BETWEEN US. I SPEAK HERE OL FOR MYSELF. EVERY PERSON HAS FREE AGENCY TO THINK AND BELIEVE IN WHAT THEY MAY. WE ALL FALL SHORT! YOU HAVE SINNED, I HAVE SINNED AND YES PROPHETS IN THIS MATTER HAVE SINNED!! ARE YOU DONE YET??
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1 YOU APPARENTLY DONT READ THE POST OF OTHERS CUZ I GOTTA KEEP REPEATIN MYSELF AD SCHOOLIN' YOU. WANT MORE TRUTHS? MOST PEOPLE ARE OVER THE PAST!! WANT MORE?? OVER 800 DOCUMENTED MORMONS IN THE CIVIL WAR ON THE CONFEERATE SIDE. WANT MORE?? MORMON CHURCH IN AFRICA IN THE 1800'S !! WANT MORE?? NO ONE I KNOW USES THE "N" WORD" OR EVER HAS. WANT MORE??? YOU ARE NOR EVER HAVE BEEN CURSED. WANT MORE?? MORMONS INVITE ALL PEOPLES AT THE WELCOME TABLE.......WANT MORE??? JESUS WAS BLACK
dgantt951 5 months ago
NEITHER CAN THE HAND TO THE FOOT "I HAVE NO USE FOR THEE". WE ARE ALL PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST. PUT DOWN YOUR SWORD OH BROTHER AND COME TOTH WELCOME TABLE. I WILL BE THERE WAITING FOR YOU!!! LOVE MY BROTHER, FORGET THE PAST AND LOOK TOWARD GOD!!! JESUS IS OUR LIGHT AND SAVIOR!!! UNTIL WE CAN ALL COME TOGETHER JESUS WILL NOT BE PLEASED.
dgantt951 5 months ago
Cheshu1..did you forget that Jesus taught us to love one another, to turn the other cheek, to treat your brother as your self????? what are you doing here brother but bringing out oud wounds to stir up the hearts of men to anger.....
LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF. THE GREATEST COMMANDMENT IS TO LOVE GOD WITH AL THY HEART MIND AND SOUL AND THE 2ND IS LIKE UNTO IT.....LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF....I LOVE MY NEIGHBORS.....DO YOU??? OR ARE YOU A RESPECTOR OF PERSONS?
dgantt951 5 months ago
Cheshu1.....when u gonna post something to save souls rather that hatin' on your brother or siter???
dgantt951 5 months ago
Joseph Fielding Smith; Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith; the Prophet Joseph Smith had already been killed when this Prophet Joseph F. Smith became Prophet. Two different Prophets. Make sure you are speaking about the correct one. Joseph F Smith has some things twisted as did others.
dgantt951 5 months ago
still you bore me with your lack of knowledge
dgantt951 5 months ago
once agan Cheshu1 got it mised up......Joseph Smith Jr, a true Prophet of God and Joseph F. Smith a different Prophet. In your comments about "two negroes" trying to get marrie and thus fined???? that was Jospeh F. Smith , not Joseph Smi Jr. the founder of the church...get it straight brother
dgantt951 5 months ago
Joesph F Smith was obeying the laws of the land at that time. yes the laws of the land at that time were wrong!!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1 did u read the foot notes????? let me help u out then since u refuse to do your own work...mama will help you.....2 Nephi 5:21 ..did cause a 'skin" of darkness to come upon them. Footnote; 2 Nephi 30:6; "scales" of darkness; footnote for "scales" spiritual darkness. it had noting to do wtih the color of ones skin.
dgantt951 5 months ago
I never said I agreed with the racail discriminatory teachings, policies.
tho Cheshu1 does have some incorrect informtion. Joseph Smith Jr. was a mna of God!!! The others had different adgenda or purpses. Mormons are taught to ask question, study and pray which I did...and at a young age of 10 new somethng was not correct, I didnot attend church then. But I will not throw out the baby with th bath water so to speak. there are a few Prophets who taught correct principles.
dgantt951 5 months ago
The first Propht , Joseph Smith Jr. a true man of God who never used derragatory words against anyone, who was an abolitionst, who ran for President of the United Stated on an ant-slavey campaign, taught new converts to the church to educate and free their slaves and treat them as equal. Joseph Joseph Smith was the true Prophet!! Many Prophets after him have said many things I personally do not agree with in regards to racism....that is why i quit going many yrs ago.....
dgantt951 5 months ago
Looks like I need o school Cheshu1......again!!! Cheshu1 wants you to believe that all his posts are current teachings of the Mormon church. Wrong! first of all the True Prohet of the Church Joseph Smith Jr. was a righteous Prophet. It enev says in the bible, many are called , but few are chosen. Joseph Smith Jr. was chosen!!! Joseph Smith was killed in 1844 many years before the "Journal of Disourses" were written. then here is another Prophet Joseph F. Smith....2 different Prophets.....
dgantt951 5 months ago
and by your fruits we know you.....Cheshu1 who places himself in a position of judge over the Mormon Church. Clearly the Bible says...Jesus will judge each man according to his heart.
dgantt951 5 months ago
I wonder what the Leaders of Cheshu1's church would say if they saw the posts here. especially the ones that have been removed by Cheshu1.......pretty bad. Pehaps I will foward this to th Leaders and ask them....is this how you teach your followers to act when someone belives differenty than they do, especially when they dont even have the whole story and can not judge fairly??? cut and paste is a wonderful tool
dgantt951 5 months ago
Dont worry about what dgantt has to say. dont worry about what Cheshu1 has to say...use your own mind.........think for yourself.......ASK GOD AND HE WILL REVEAL THE TRUTH UNTO YOU...........ASK GOD!!!! 2 nEPHI 5:21 .....did Cheshu1 forget to read all the footnotes that clarify what "skin"" means ??? if any of you lack wisdom and want to know, find a book of mormon and follow all the footnotes............
dgantt951 5 months ago
Bye my brother.....and God Bless you!! the debate was fun! but I got better things to do now. oh and by the way....i'm a female!!!!!! get it right brother!
dgantt951 5 months ago
I will debate with you all day long....an you can never change my mind or beliefs......I have the right to believe as I wish.......just like you> i allow you to beleive in your church........allow me the same
dgantt951 5 months ago
Bewre of false Prophets.....But God neve said that all Prophets were gonna be perfect and 100% right. all men are prone to err even a Prophet. That is why it is up to each person in the church to ask God and pray if a revelaton or policy or whatever is true......Anger???? not angry whatsoever........your repetitive rhetoric is boring.............old........and stale................
dgantt951 5 months ago
WHAT U GOT TO SAY ABOUT TODAY'S PROPHET???? ABOUT TODAYS TEACHINGS????
dgantt951 5 months ago
STILL BRINGING UP THE OLD THETORIC HUH??? CANT COME UP WTH NOTHIN NEW???
dgantt951 5 months ago
FOR SOMEONE WHO DONT WANNA EAT FROM THE RUIT OF THE MORMON TREE YOU URE DO SPEND ALOT OF TIME UDER IT!!!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
OH MY GOSH ...HOW MANY TIMES DOES CHESHU1 ONE HAVE TO KEEP REPEATING THE SAME OLD RHETORIC.......DUH!!!!!!! GET A CLUE BRUH
dgantt951 5 months ago
I do not mix the truts with lies.....we all know the church history, we also know the history of slavery, the history of politics , the history of......: move on brother. no one is denying the racism in the church..i already stated that. Im just talking about now!!! the time the pertains to me is now .....othrwise without change ..we would still be in a slave nation....THANK GOD FOR CHANGE!!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1 Please do examime our Prophets......and make sure you examine the Prophet of today if you want information about what the church is all abou today!! I am not idingthe past...bring it out!! bu let;s also talk about today!! actually God wrote the Book of Mormon.....Joseph Smith merely translaed it!!! once gain, get your info correct!!! what a waste of God given time.....Cheshu1 needs a hobby!!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1 con't..1970 1st Stake on the African continent organized in Johannesburg South Africa, Louis P Heferas President. 1972 Book of Mormon translated into Afrikaans. So you see Cheshu1 it is you who is actually telling the lie. The church has been in Africa from the beginning since the days of Joseph Smith. You need to come correct!!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1...LDS in Africa facts. 1st mission in Johannesburg, Africa organized in 1851. in 1852 essie Haven, Leonard L. Smith and William H. Walker are called to establish the church in the Cape of Good Hope South Africa. LDS missionries arrived in Africa in 1853. 1855 LDS membership in Africa 176. 1918 membership in Africa 339. After World War II African gov't resricts number of missionaries allowed in the county. 1964 Joseph Johnson of Ghana teaches others (a missionary).
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1..if the Mormon chruch still taught and believed that blacks could not get ino heaven then there would be no black membership. Apostles and Seventy and all leaders of the church teach the truth as they know it now. the past is gone, black membership is growing rapidly. you use youtube as a tool to hate ....find "Mormon Africa" (LDS church in Black Africa and explain if the Mormon church still teaches racism..why are there so many Africans in the church???
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1.....WHY ARE YOU STUCK IN THE PAST?? WHY DONT YOU TALK ABOUT CURRENT EVENTS AND THEOLOGY OF THE MORMON CHURCH?? THE OLD STUFF YOU KEEP BRINGING UP IS OLD AND GONE. 1863??? GONE. 1978??? GONE. LOOK WHAT WE DOING NOW BROTHER! U SHOULD FOCUS ON CURRENT ISSUES LIKE RACIAL PROFILING OR DO SOMETHING POSITIVE FOR YOUR COMMUNITY STOP TRYING TO BREAK DOWN MY CHURCH. SPEND YOUR TIME IN A POSITIVE WAY......DO SOMETHING GOOD.......MAKE A DIFFRENCE. WHAT U ARE DOING HERE IS GETTIN U NOWHERE.
dgantt951 5 months ago
your church is non-denominational ......does not oppose denominational churches......yet here you clearly are defying your on belief system. You again speak with a forked tongue. Jesus would not do as you have done, your church leaders 'm sure would not be pleased if in fact as the Calvery
Church follows what they post as their beliefs.....or perhaps you only believe it in certain instances and you can pick and choose what denomiational churches to oppose.
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1 who recenty disappeared cuz it got too hot in th kitchen ....Black Africans did not have the same experience that blacks here in America did, so im pretty sure their perspective is different, but maybe to be sure you should go ask someone from Africa who happens to b LDS. maybe you should even take a Black History course and learn that Black Africans sold many Blacks into slavery in the first place. or that th Scottish were actually the first Slaves in America!!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
"I have something very important to tell you people , especially you people of Africa who have missionaires coming across your borders to teach false things".
Listen to what the message is, pray to find out if it is true, ask God himself concerning past issues. Think for yourselves, you really want truth, unadulterated truth???? ASK OF GOD AND HE WILL REVEAL ALL TRUTH TO YOYOU!!! Forgiveness is essential to move forward my brothers and sisters in Africa...ASK GOD WHO IS ALL KNOWING
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1...let's get off my religion and talk about yours!!! in all fairness I am absolutely positive I can find the same kind of past in the church you attend...and if you dont attend any church....shame on you for your judgements. Only God can judge between you and me. Do not judge your brother the Bible says....yet you judge the Mormons. Blessings to you my brother and I hope you find what you are looking for....Peace!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
I appologize......sometimes I let my passion run away with me and I say in appropriate things. Arrogant?? no, not any more than you Cheshu1 you just misunderstand what I am saying. I dont want to argue with you and defend my beliefs....you are free to believe what you want and I will believe wht I want. I have yet to meet one person during my life of being Mormon who had a good enough case against the church to change my mind. Mormons are excersizing their right to religious preferenes.
dgantt951 5 months ago
@dgantt951 Cheshu1 won't listen to anything you say, trust me.
You are not the first one that has talked to him.
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@TheSkepticChristian well. some people are simply stuck and can't work past it. If he would just get out of his own way he would realize that he is going against what the Bible teaches us to do........LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF!
dgantt951 5 months ago
that is right "Resored" Restored Prieshood, restored orinances necessary for exaltation, yes!! a higher fuller gospel!! Marriage for time and all eternity; not just til death do us art, the Mormon Church, that does not pay it's ministry. the only other church that has temples as Solomon did in the Bible. That pay tithing even as Abraham paid tihes to the Great High Priest Melchizedek, Mormons; . that was set up just as Christ's church in bibical times. Do the comparison, know for yourself!
dgantt951 5 months ago
The plea of Mormons today is to no longer look at what their past failed and false prophets and leaders have done, said and written. It has become an embarrassment to them and they are compelled to deny their prophets and leaders teachings and actions. The Mormon Church claims to be the one and only true church with a so-called “restored gospel.” They have set themselves above everyone else.
@Cheshu1
kjvjay 5 months ago
Quoting from the Mormon, dgantt951, posting below,
“MORMONISM IS NOT FOR EVERYONE, IT'S TOO SPIRIUALLY ADVANCED FOR THOSE WHO ARE SPIRITUALLY UNEDUCATED,” It does not get much more arrogant than that. But dgantt951 does not want us to look at all the garbage their false prophets and leaders have taught as truth.
If Mormons are so intent on denying their past not so wonderful esoteric teachings, what does the future in store for them, more denial?
@Cheshu1
kjvjay 5 months ago
@kjvjay we do not deny our past .....we take a hard look at them...correct them....then move forward. an you are still determined to stay in the past. Thank God for change. Thank God for Prophets of this era who uderstand that the past policies were wrong, thank God the membership has changed!! Thank God.!! You can look at the garbage from past prophets and leaders..but put the blame on those who created it..not the membership today. who is it that gives you such OLD outdated info????
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1. all you are doing is keeping old, tired wounds open. . you claim to believe in equality?? how can this be when you continually advocate old outdated informtion that the church now denounces. you live in the past and probably are too young or weren't even born during these turbulanet racial times. The churches eyes have been opened, realizes its errors and are making amends, why do you insist on keeping racial tentions alive??? God is no respector of persons...why are you??
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1. you have every right to be angry about the past teachigs of the church, however things have changed drastically since 1978!! racist theology is no longer taught, racist thinking is no longer accepted in the Mormon church. get some current information will ya. Let's talk about what todays Prophet says , ..the prophet of the today's era. See what Thomas S. Monson teaches, read what the Prophet before him ,Gordon B. Hinkley taught about racism., let;s get out of the past.
dgantt951 5 months ago
Documentry Channel airing in the Utah area tonight "Nobody Knows" the true story of blacks in the Mormon Church. This documentary talks about that little-known legacy, and confronts the hard issues which surfaced in the most turbulent years of the Civil Rights Movement, when the Church restricted its priesthood from those of African descent. It discusses how that restriction was lifted and what the lives and ... Watch it!!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1 you give quotes from past Prohets yet conveniantly leave out the year that it was said. all your quotes are so old , pre 1978 or earlier. BEWARE OF FALSE TEACHNGS, CHSHU1 TEACHES THAT MORMONS STILL TEACH RACIST THEOLOGY, THIS IS NOT TRUE. YOU WANT TRUTH....ASK GOD, NOT MAN > . IF YOU ARE WSE , THINK FOR YOURSELF. MORMONISM IS NOT FOR EVERYONE, IT'S TOO SPIRIUALLY ADVANCED FOR THOSE WHO ARE SPIRITUALLY UNEDUCATED, SKIN COLOR DONT MATTER IN HEAVEN!
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1 there you go again...back to th past. you keep repeating the same old rhetoric. obvoiusly you have nothing current to prove that racism or racist ideolgy still exists in the church. Those teachings are long gone! if we use your standard for judgement then let's attack all Presidents past, and present for their racism, let's attack the Presbyterian, the Catholic, the Southern Baptist and other churches who taught these same principles. let's attack the Police for still racial profiling
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1
You make a good point. Racism and false teachings are built into the Mormon Church.
kjvjay 5 months ago
@kjvjay but than God they are being removed. CHANGE IS HAPPENING EVERYDAY!!!!! HALLELUIA!!!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
@dgantt951 *but than God they are being removed. CHANGE IS HAPPENING EVERYDAY!!!!! HALLELUIA!!!!*
Might I remind you that the Mormon Heavenly Father Joseph Smith clamed is nothing more than an exalted man. The God of the Bible, who J. S. denied, was, is and form eternity to eternity God. The God of the Bible was never a man that became God, but has always and always will existed as God. That is the God of the Bible and Christians.
@Cheshu1
kjvjay 5 months ago
Do as the Bible instructs in James 1:5 "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. Read the Book fo Mormon, study, ponder and pray. ask the black leaders in the church; Listen to present day Prophets who lead the chrch today. The days of racism are long gone..Praise God for opening the eyes of the Prophets. "We shall overcome someday" . the church has overcome their racist past.
dgantt951 5 months ago
@dgantt951 Cheshu1 has problems
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
Racism was taught in all the white churches to justify slavery. It was Satan who started the lie and a majority of whites who simply believed it without seeking the truth themselves. Thank God for the truth! Thank God for the church finally realizing what role it had in racism! and today Thank God for our Prophet Gordon B. Hinkley who publically denounced racism at General Conference! Oh Happy Day!! Thank God for the change!!!! Now my children and grandchildren can receive the fulness!!!!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
if we follow the examp;e of Cheshu1 and hold on to a recist era as our measuring stick in life, we would still be in the slavery era!! Thank God for change, Thank God for opening up the eyes of the white leaders of the church and realizing that the church, not just the mormon church but all churches run by white men taught that the black man was inferior, that the clergy in every church sought out scriptures that could be interpreted to mislead people into thinking blacks were cursed.
dgantt951 5 months ago
Blacklds.org; Afro-American Historical and Genealogy Society; LDS Genesis Group; Blacks in the Scriptures (DVD); Black Mormons he Untold Story (DVD); Standing on the Promise (3 volume book series on early Black members of the church) Genesis Group Presidency ( all black ); and so much more.......times have changed since te 1800's and since 1978! Look what the church is doing now......listen to present day Prophets.....what are they saying.? Gordon B. Hinkley recent Prophet denounces racism!
dgantt951 5 months ago
many members like myself opposed the priesthood ban and didnt attend church. Today, many men of color in the Quorum; Claudio Costa from Brazil, Walter Gonzalez-Nunes from Uraguay; Jackson T Mkhabela from South Africa; Joseph Sitati a General Authority from Africa, many from South America, and other countries: if Cheshu1 is blaming our present Prophet for things that happened over 30 years ago. totally irrelevant. were u even alive 30 yrs ago Cheshu1? wherewere u in the 60's?
dgantt951 5 months ago
Cheshu1 woud have you believe that we are still living in the racit past, He would have you believe that the church has not changed......when in fact it has Cheshu1 would have you convinced that he supports the work of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. and th fight for equality, yet i is Cheshu! who is judging present Prophets by what past Prophets have done. clearly Cheshu1 violates his ouwn standards. Judge not a man by the color of his skin but by the content of his characer.
dgantt951 5 months ago
that' all I gotta say on this matter. dont be stuck in the past. all chuches have been wrong in this matter..........move on......WE are all his children and just like the Prophet Gordon B. Hinkley said......racism will not be tolerated, yo cannot call yourself a disciple of God if you treat another differently based on skin color. I love this Prophet for he spake the truth: and the trut will set you free!!!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
and why is there so much growth an acceptance.......because the
gospel of Jesus Christ is true, the Book of Mormon is true!! dont be a follower lik those in the 1800's and just believed what the prophet said or their friend.......search out the truth for yourself....Read...Ponder...and Pray! God is the onl way and He will tell you if the church is true or not. are you a follower?? or wil you use your intelligence to kow for yourself......ASK GOD IF THIS CHURCH IS TRUE!!!!!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
we can never forget what racisms were taught witin the church; yes it was wrong to base salvation on skin color.......can't change the past, butwe are certainly changing the present and future. since 1978....more black prieshood holders, black membership grows, Bishorics with men of color, Apostles, men of color, Black history celebrations, Junteenth celcbrations, plays depicting earl lack pioneers, gospel music.......and so much more....things have chaned Halleluia!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
you keep repeating the same old rhetoric..........flip the page brother. Change is happening every day. you kno how many Africans are members of the church today????? thousands upon thousads. your feeble attempts to disuade them will only influence a spiritually weak mind.
Read the Book of Mormon, pray wit real intent and know for yurself if these things are true. do not take it fom me nor from Cheshu1, God is all knowing......ask and ye shall receive; knock and it shall be opened to you
dgantt951 5 months ago
Science makes new discoveries everyday, science and medicine find iformation t make things more clear. the church has more unerstaning and is trying to rectify tose wrongs. Racism, bigotry ad old teachings in the church were the work of men and not of God. you must learn to seperate the two. even a Prophet can be led astay and it is the responsibiity of each member to pray and ask God if these things are true. too many will just follow.
dgantt951 5 months ago
so much hatred my brother! wh do you insist on ignoring the changes that have occured? The Leadership of the Church has appologized for its roe in racism, the church is making amends, reaching out,. In a racist era most whites believed in the curses that were taught, but we know that they are incorrect, the church is trying to change that. Yes the devil was very active in twisting the minds of the saints, but now the church understands. All references to skin color have been removed
dgantt951 5 months ago
I cannot explain slavery, bigorty or racisms that occured in the past any more than you Cheshu1 can explain why God's chosen people were enslaved by the Egyptians for hundreds of years.
dgantt951 5 months ago
you were sent here to "unite culures??? lol you are not uniting us with your continual discussions on racism, discussions from the past. this is 2011, keep up with the times and current policiesand teachings of the mormon church. "how dare you do this to my people" ?? put a picture of a beutiful black woman perhaps in deep thought, concern , a place we all have been?? u may be reading too much into the picture, "they're coming??? get your ....correct?? Jesus doesn' t swear......Y R U??
dgantt951 5 months ago
this onversation is B O R I N G!!! same old drag............today's Mormons....we got it going on. check us out if you dare.....change has come and its all good. dont get left behind cuz you too busy worrin' 'bout the past. Its a new day in the Mormon church. I can send you a copy of "Blacks in the Scriptures" DVD which was recently approved to use in Seminary and Institue classes. a DVD made by and for Black LDS and to educate the white members. I dare you to check it out!!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
BTW.......Blacks are not denied enterance into heaven.....only God can judge that
dgantt951 5 months ago
why dont you do something positie with your time. why dont you find out why Gladys Knight is a Mormon or former Black Panther leader Eldrige Cleaver or so many other prominent black leaders in the world??? Blacks with degrees, intelligent men of color who have joined the church??
dgantt951 5 months ago
surely you would be wise enough to know that a change of acceptance and reversal of old beliefs would be pleasing to you.???? wont you accept the positive changes that are being and have been made???? MLKing's work is not done, racism is alive and well in every sector of life. each man is responsible for their own actions and heart and how they treat their brother. ad how do you see yourself treating the mormons???
The general position of the chuch is not racist, those who are will meet God
dgantt951 5 months ago
The church is making changes......positive changes in regard to African Americans. trying to build bridges. I speak onlyfor myself and my experience , not for the church, that is for the Prophet. so my last post was quoted from a recent Prophet in the church, Gordon B. Hinkley . racismis wrong, all churches back then felt the same. Thank God for positie change. So I ask brother, will you be part of the positive change or stay stuck in the 1800"s. without change there is no progress.
dgantt951 5 months ago
"I remind you that no man who makes disparaging remarks concerning those of another race can consider himself a true disciple of Christ," said President Hinckley. "How can any man holding the Melchizedek Priesthood arrogantly assume that he is eligible for the priesthood whereas another who lives a righteous life but whose skin is of a different color, is ineligible?" this directly from a Prophet of the church.
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1 how can you possibly know the heart and mind of a mormon> do you even know a mormon?? let alone a black mormon??? you are generalizing again. and you are so quick to judge the mormon but you conveniently forget that God said not to judge another , not to hate another but to love. what are you doing??? pure judgemental and hateful towards mormons who are Gods children too!! shame on you for placing judging another.
dgantt951 5 months ago
you are soewhat correct about the churches pst but you have some facts incorrect. Blacks will be in charge one day in LDS church........where you gonna be?????? stuck in the 1800's. so i gotta go to work now, pray brother and ask if things have not changed in the mormon churh, look around you, see how the faces of mormonism have changed. WE SHALL OVERCOME, AND BE THE CHOSEN PEOPLE OF GOD.....Get wth it!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
and i did not follow. i can only speak for my and from my experience. it is a new day in the LDS church, the face of its people is quickly changing. dont get left behing cuz ur stuck in the 1800's.
dgantt951 5 months ago
did u attend public schools????? why?? they taught racism, did you got shopping??? why? they taught racism get out of the 1800's dude
dgantt951 5 months ago
Jesus is the Light, yo keep going back to the 1800's.......get out of the past brother and set yoursef free!!! the days of this kind of backward thinking in the church has gonw. "Genesis"is a program specifically for black members of the church to prepare for the ushering in of Jesus at e 2nd coming.
dgantt951 5 months ago
oh my gosh..........u gotta be kidding me..........the churc has denounced these types of statments sooooo lng ago. GET A CLUE!
dgantt951 5 months ago
i could discuss the matter but it was never asked of me. I can only say that even Prophets can misinterpret, misundrstand if tey are not careful. that is why it is important for every member to pray and ask God if what they hear is correct. many just follow whatever they hear and dont understand the Prophets are human and can make mistakes. Only God has abolute truth.
dgantt951 5 months ago
they did not uderstand ; but thank God that they are becoming enlightened now.
dgantt951 5 months ago
are you still living in the 1800's.............times change, cant you keep up??
dgantt951 5 months ago
oh my gosh........get out of the slave era!!!!! we could point fingers all day long about every church except the A.M.E churches back then. WHERE WIL YOU STAND WHEN THE LDS CHURCH, THE BLACK MEMBERS OF THE CHURCH ARE THE MAIN LEADERSHIP. WILL YOU STILL BE TALKIN; THE SAME'OLTALK,.......GET A CLUE , GOD IS CALLING YOU , THERE' A CHANGE GOIN' N AND YOU GONNA MISS IT CUZ YOU ARE STUCK IN THE 1800's. Do you still ride the bus????? or do you protest it because of segrgation laws?? c'mon......
dgantt951 5 months ago
get out of the 1800's. Are you gonna be still taking about these old tiresome issues when Blacks are preparing even today in te church to be th leaders in t chuch??? where will you be standing brother when Blacks usher in the 2nd coming of Jesus??? many in the LDS church understands this..do you??? gt out of the pst , it is holding you back for the changes about to come!!!
dgantt951 5 months ago
there have been and are now Apostles of color....do some research wil ya!!! and i do know the answer....God is no respctor o persons!! but too bad that man, even prophet can be wrong and lead others to destruction. it is those who pray and really know the truth that get past all this racial mess. sorry brother, my faily is black and we remain LDS. Our people will usher in the Last Days ......hope you understand it before it all happens; Blacks will be first and whites will be last.
dgantt951 5 months ago
false prophets did come and decieve, they deceived even you. white doesnt necessarily refer toskin color. that's the problem with America...too wrapped up in te color of skin. stop living in the slave era and catch up to the rest of us.
dgantt951 5 months ago
Joseph Smth was an abolitionist....after that , yes things changed. get things in perspective will ya. after Jospeh Smith was killed policies were put in place to ban th priesthood and keep my black brothers and sister supressed. and what scripture can you supply that says that the white man is the chosen seed???????
dgantt951 5 months ago
and when my black brothers and sisters out number thewhites in the church, there will be a cleansing , seperating the wheat from the tares. It is the Black race that will usher in the return of Jesus to the earth and those who are racist will have no part. I will stay in my church , I will support the effort and rejoice when my brothers and sisters of color take charge...........
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1. I know Jesus very well thank you. and yes He judges the heart. Unfortunately man has gotten it twisted. I dont hav things twisted brother. Jesus is the only way. Noah had 3 sons; Shem , Japheth and Ham, from these 3 we are all descendant, form father Noah. the first 2000 yrs Shem's people reigned, Japheth's psterity now and soon we will be ushering in the era of Ham's posterity. the firs shall be last; and th last shall be first.
African Americans will be carring the torch soon
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1 I never was trying to excuse any racism within thechurch. I abhor it. I quit attending church because of it. the face of the Mormon church has changed, thre ar mow more mambers of color tan whites now. during that era racism was abundant, it was the Civil War Era, no church accepted blacks except the mormon church. then the Prophet was murdered. the Chuch is not perfect. Your church is not perfect. But things have changed since then.
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1 oh my gosh...you really dont know history do you. 1st Klan 1865-1870's with 550,000 members. 2nd Klan 1915-1944 over 2 million members. 34d Klan since 1946. I will not stoop to calling you liar, I wll however state that you lack the knowledge for this subject. again ..do yo homework.
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1 do some researh brother! you apparently are stuck in a religious era when all churces excpet the A.M.E. churches kept blacks out of hte church. racism was abundant bck then. Howevver it was he Mormon church durng this time that freely allowed blacks into thechuch, baptised them and gave the priesthood men f color. Ever hear of Elijah Abel?? Walker Lewis and other black men who received the Priesthood? do your homework bruh!
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1 the church obeys the laws of the land. It was against the law for "negroes" to marry white women. the mormon church did not make the laws of the land!!! however Jospeh Smith did talk wih the President of the United States and asked for slavery to b abolished, when the President refused.....Joseph Smith ran for President on an anti-slavery campaign. the KKK hated the Mormons for they were abolitionists and were tarred and feathered and burned out of their homes because of it
dgantt951 5 months ago
tis i only one book you refer to: there are others, Take for exmple the book "Gospel Prnciples" more tham half of the pictures are of people of color. and in fa the chaper about eterna marriage.......the accmpanying picture is a Black couple. Joseph Smith taught against slavery, he ordaied Black men to the Priesthood, he fought for slavery to end. get your info correct!
dgantt951 5 months ago
@Cheshu1 LoL your arguments are so Biased, and the bible says not to judge dude. Whats wrong with you??? Are you mad that slavery can be found in the old testament??
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@Cheshu1 Can you explain how magnets work??
TheSkepticChristian 5 months ago
@johnny123springer it is clearly you who have not done your reading of either book.........ever hear of Genesis??? Prophet Gordon B. Hinkley who denounced racism??? get a clue......and ya;ll need to get "your stuff correct"!!!
dganttable 5 months ago
@Cheshu1 Not every statement uttered by a Prophet is/was doctrine. The Bible is full of such examples. Your ignorance of both the Bible and LDS history doesn't make mormon nor Biblical prophets "filthy". It makes you a perverter of the truth, for your own wicked means of destroying other believers, going against Christ's Words in Mark/Luke 9. He has harsh words for people like you, the destroyers of Faith, who serve satan, when they think they are serving God and truth. Read the chapters.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 No such thing as an "infallible" prophet. You also pervert the Word. The people don't have to believe something that is false, mormons have not. Not everything a prophet says is Gods Word. I was in this religion pre-1978, & most others. Mormons were the most tolerant save the Catholics of ANY of them. So tolerant, that I didn't even know of the Priesthood ban until it was lifted. You enjoy your bearing false witness, quote mining. It will make you nothing but an ignorant bigot.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 Also read this and get a clue what the Bible itself actually says about the "infallibility" of Prophets.... en dot fairmormondotorg/Fallibility_of_prophets
You don't know the Bible at all, and never have.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 Then you must deny the Bible..... For Prophets and Apostles of the Bible errored and were corrected by either God, Christ, or another Apostle such as Peter. Your ignorance of what the Bible actually teaches only shows your man-made religion. Read this article and learn what the Bible actually says about discerning true and false prophets. en dot fairmormondotorg/Biblical_Keys_for_Discerning_True_and_False_Prophets
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 Further, your quote mining of finding maybe 30 negative and/or bad quotes from 180 years of a fully documented LDS history, doesn't prove your case of racism. All it shows is that you are willing to quote only the history which makes your case, while ignoring the 100,000's of other quotes which would destroy your case. That makes you a liar, making you a servant of the devil. Nothing is new to me, I left this church for the same ignorance. But, I was so very wrong, you are worse.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 Now, if mormons were pro-slavery, had white only bathrooms, hung black men from trees, supported the KKK, & all kinds of other clear evils related to the evils of racism, then you would have a case. But you have none! All you have from SOME past mormon INDIVIDUALS is mostly some "ethno-centrism". Not everyone who was ethno-centrist did so for racist reasons, but cultural reasons, ignorant or not. There is every evidence in creation against your claim of racism by the Church.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 Again I ask you, was God and Christ racist, pro-slavery, etc. when the Gospel and Priesthood was denied to others as recorded in the Bible, as well as NEVER condemning slavery, even dictating how to treat slaves? Those who believed the earth was flat, were they evil, or just ignorant of that thing? You can't judge ignorance and lack of knowledge on those of the past as being evil, racist, etc.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 See my previous posts, & deal with the facts. Your history quote, so what? People of the past reasonably believed that it was wrong to mix races, not just with blacks either. Jews also believed it was wrong to marry outside of their race, where they racist also? Sure, by our modern standards there's no good reason other than potential cultural problems, resulting in divorce (I know because it also happened to me). Our more intelligent standards doesn't make those of the past evil.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 Bottom line, is you can't judge people of the past by MODERN standards. Do you even know that there is not a single statement in the Bible of God or other condemning slavery? There are only statements how to treat slaves. Even Christ didn't condemn slavery. You going to call Christ evil & racist because he supported slavery? You can't judge good people of the past by modern standard. Current social conventions do not make a person or group evil/racist. Stop bearing false witness!
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 Do you even study history? Anyone that knows history knows that blacks back in those times acted dumb. Of course, it wasn't necessarily their fault, that's how they were raised, but that's just "observation", not anything "racist". His statement is based on an LDS doctrine that who we are in this life is related to who we were in the pre-mortal life. It wasn't unreasonable to see the black man back then & think there might be some relation. Some wrong judgment, not unreasonable.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 That was his personal opinion..... Lot's of people have opinions in history, and he was a man of his times. MANY people believed the same thing, not just mormons. The idea after all did not originate from mormons idiot. Opinions of individuals do not make a religion, nor a people. You want to make me own past wrongs of individuals of my religion, does that mean YOU OWN the murders, the rapes, the property theft of 1000's of YOUR kind of the past? I doubt it.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 God had HIS reasons for the ban. Me, I see them, but I didn't once, was ignorant of scripture & the actual facts of the ban, just like you are. Your ignorance does not make racism by the Church. Believe me, I wouldn't have rejoined the Church if it actually was racist, and wasn't God's True Church on the earth in the last days. I have no interest in man-made religion. You know a "little", and think you're smart. Really you know just enough to be dumb, not enough to know the truth.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 And as I've already said before, it wasn't a ban against "blacks", but only those of African lineage. ALL other blacks of other races and cultures were given the Priesthood. Christ wasn't a racist when he while alive would only give the Gospel to the Jews (save the couple of exceptions). God and Moses wasn't "racist" when only a particular Tribe (lineage) was allowed to have the Priesthood, and all others were restricted, not to mention the gentiles being restricted.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 Not only that, but it's a wart that's been removed..... Even further, it wasn't an "actual" wart, it was just a skin spot. The actual warts were the humans involved who sometimes said wrong. And it's not as much as you think. 90% of the so-called "wrong" statements are misrepresenting out of context lies promoted by your kind, as I already showed you. The priesthood ban itself, was due to the racism in the world, not by the Church.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 Even anti-semitic groups have condemned anti-mormon bigots like you. Do you really think that pre-1978, that if the Church was actually so "racist", that JFK wouldn't have thought so well of it? Do you really think the same time, the Author and creator of the book and movie "Roots", would have went to and accepted honors and recognition from the Church? You are a ignorant bigot. You see a wart on a good human being, and you want to murder that human being. Shame on YOU!!!
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 Mormons never drove a people from state to state, murdering, raping, & taking property. Mormons never burned heretics at the stake like Protestants and Catholics did to each other. Mormons never encouraged or supported slavery, like your kind did. Mormons never on and on. But, ignorant bigots LIKE YOU most certainly have done all these things. Your rhetoric against mormons is only one step away from the Mobs and murderers of the past, who said the same damnable lies. Repent!
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 Contrary to your analogy, the ACTUAL truthful analogy of this religion, is that the religion is a pristine car, in and out..... It is only the DRIVERS who have at times had faults. More importantly, our faults NEVER and never to the degree rose to the faults that have been in YOUR religions of history. The monstrous things you did and said to blacks, to other religions, to other people. Those who actually know history, contrary to you, know that Mormons were SAINTS by comparison.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 I'm a convert, after being in most other religions. I even left the Church, & was anti-mormon & anti-religion primarily for the priesthood issue. So, don't tell me what "I'm" like. I know well what I'm like, what my religion ACTUALLY is like, contrary to your lies, & more importantly what YOU are like. You serve the father of lies, that is your heart. You have no interest in the actual truth, because you have no faith to seek it, believing instead the easy lie & the easy hate.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 Read the talk, and see that everything I've said is true, and that you're just a brainwashed ignorant bigot. Brigham talks about the evils done against indians, to the church, to blacks, and even mentions the events I mentioned when the Church was abolitionist, and it was driven from place to place by racist pro-slavery scum. You don't know anything. You don't study and learn, you're a sheep brainwashed by bigots.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 Read the speech, it's actually good in context. Read the next statement, where he says he's neither abolitionist NOR pro-slavery. That he hates the conduct of those, as he hates the gates of hell. So much more does he state that is good. But, you are ignorant of this, because you only focus on drive-by anti-mormon quotes, words out of context & meaning. Not saying no LDS, especially Brigham Young has never said anything wrong nor ethno-centrist, but an individual is not a religion.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 Did you actually read the talk in question? It's long, it was POLITICAL focused, in the context of the Church defending itself against evil conspiring men who questioned their patriotism, who were striving to dictate that the LDS law of Plural Marriage was illegal, men who called for the extinction of the mormons, even though the Church supported the Constitution, & went to war when called. His speech was of chastisement & anger toward the government over-stepping it's bounds.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 Easy, it's called not bearing false witness by taking quotes out of their context. Why don't you quote anything positive from LDS history? To every negative thing said by some mormon on a subject from a large well recorded history, there are 100,000 positive things on the same subject. Why do you enjoy being like the KKK, Fanatical Islam, David Duke his Jews hate Christians malarkey, liberals, & every other bigot out their on their target? Do you comprehend what lying is?
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 Further, there is no mormon who has ever claimed that some mormons in history never said anything offensive or wrong. Such has nothing to do with the religion itself. Much worse existed in other religions. Mormons were actually enlightened by comparison. We never segregated members, the religion taught tolerance, mormons were abolitionists, the ban only applied to those of "African" decent, including whites, NOT "blacks". Plenty of blacks of other races WERE given the Priesthood.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
@Cheshu1 You can't take things out of context & meaning & then think you are telling the truth. Facts are not "truth". Only the full facts are the truth. That statement is referring to a doctrine related to the pre-mortal life, that who we are in this life is related to who we were in the pre-mortal life. The statement applies to ALL peoples and circumstances. Thus, you trying to rip one statement from history when the idea was also applied to black circumstance is bearing false witness.
leeuniverse 6 months ago
why waist yo time with mormons, they are demonic dracons from DRACO. they do the sorcery for the vatican and its rituals on birth certificates on every child born in the USA corp. stop worrying about Demons and do yo. Peace
da13thsun 6 months ago
@johnny123springer You should not confuse the perversions and falsehoods of the liars of the world, liberals and anti-mormons, as the LDS Church and it's people as actually having been "racist". And let me explain something SCUMBAG!!! I once left the Church because of the Priesthood ban and Polygamy, and was anti-mormon and anti-religion. But, I was ignorant like you. Fortunately, I kept learning, while you do not. YOU are the actual bigot by bearing false witness.
leeuniverse 7 months ago
@johnny123springer The ban did not apply to "blacks". It applied to those of African decent. Blacks of other races were given the Priesthood. I.e. India, Central/South America, Islands, etc. A truly racist religion would have been racist against blacks period, not a specific sub-group. Were those of the Old Testament racist when only certain lineages could also hold the Priesthood (Tribes)? Was Christ racist denying the Gospel to non-Jews, requiring a Revelation to Peter AFTER his death?
leeuniverse 7 months ago
@johnny123springer Actually, pre-1978 the LDS Church along with the Catholic Church was the LEAST racist of any Church that I had attended, and I attended many, including black churches. In fact, the Church was then (and still is) so non-racist, that I didn't even know the ban existed until the ban was lifted. That's how tolerant it was in it's teachings, it's people, etc. Some out of context quotes pulled from history does not an entire religion, nor the religion itself make.
leeuniverse 7 months ago
@johnny123springer No they don't..... They say they have a "skin of blackness" on them, etc. And if you weren't a moron like all anti-mormons are, you would know ancient records and scriptures often use such terminology to describe something. In nearly every case in the BOM the skin reference is referring to their "countenances", not their skin color. Even the Bible does the same thing, just different wording.
leeuniverse 7 months ago
What a moron..... Trying to claim racism from one pamphlet. Idiot doesn't know that there are books, pamphlets, videos, etc. that show the blacks as happy family and whites or otherwise with the sad face. It's just a pamphlet idiot.... Not meant to portray every reality and truth about those within the Church. Only a complete mental reject moron would try to claim racism like that.
leeuniverse 7 months ago
MORMANS CANT DENY ANYONE TO A PLACE THAT DOES NOT EXIST IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! LOL
CHARLESHARDIN96 8 months ago
as a mormon i will call all those who try to back this up falsifiers and biggits
skittles7763 8 months ago
Joseph Smith ran for President with a platform that included the abolition of slavery. Elijah Abel (a black man) was ordained to the LDS priesthood on March 3, 1836. Walker Lewis (a black man) was ordained to the LDS priesthood in 1843. There are others as well who received the priesthood prior to the 1970s (I just don't have the names offhand), and there has NEVER been a restriction on membership/baptism/eternal-rewards based on skin color.
canofsand 9 months ago
thats not jesus thats joseph smith!
doctorw2 9 months ago
The family responsible for desegregation in public American schools is Mormon (the Brown family of Topeka, Kansas). A key Black Panther leader became Mormon. My best friend is black AND Mormon. Most Mormons are NOT even white! My uncle died in God's service to the people of Africa--he was Mormon. My neighbors gave years of their life working in hospitals in Africa--they are Mormon. Your video is misleading. I have plenty of Mormon published material depicting black families.
alethiaaeterna 10 months ago 2
@alethiaaeterna Don't CRY MORmON the truth is out here,YOUR IN A RACIST CULT!Read the WORDS of your LDS MORmON PROPHET Brigham Young!
"I would like the President of the United States and all the world to hear this.Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the AFRICAN RACE? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain (BLACKS),the penalty,under the law of God, is death on the spot.This will always be so..." Journal of Discourses, Volume 10, page 110.
TruthSeeker211 10 months ago
@TruthSeeker211 If you don't take the quote out of context, Brigham is defending woman against rape: “a condemnation of abuse and rape of helpless black women, and not an overtly racist statement condemning interracial marriage,”
Nice try, though.
alethiaaeterna 10 months ago
@alethiaaeterna you are a MORmON!Nothing is took out of context READ what is the LAW OF GOD TO YOUR RACIST MORmON PROPHET about the BLACK AFRICAN RACE!
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot..." Journal of Discourses, Volume 10, page 110.
@alethiaaeterna Take a seat you got SERVED!
TruthSeeker211 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TruthSeeker211 If you don't take the quote out of context, Brigham is defending black women against rape: “a condemnation of abuse and rape of helpless black women, and not an overtly racist statement condemning interracial marriage,” When slavery was legal, it was not uncommon for slave owners to rape their slaves. Brigham Young was alimentally against this, hence the quote by him. Thanks for defending Brigham in his fight against rape of black women.
alethiaaeterna 10 months ago
@alethiaaeterna
Mormons are racist cowards. Fucking mindless followers yall are like a group of sheep.
HatchetDimitri 9 months ago
@HatchetDimitri Most Mormons are not white...they are people of color living outside the USA (55%). What are these Africans, Pacific Islanders, Latin Americans, Asians, Central Americans, and so on afraid of? Probably ruthless dictators, food shortages, lack of healthcare, a lack of work and education caused by corrupt governments. The LDS church gives them a way out. They receive money for school from the Mormon church, life-saving immunizations, food, and employment help.
alethiaaeterna 7 months ago
@HatchetDimitri @HatchetDimitri Most Mormons are not white...they are people of color living outside the USA (55%). What are these Africans, Pacific Islanders, Latin Americans, Asians, Central Americans, and so on afraid of? Probably ruthless dictators, food shortages, lack of healthcare, a lack of work and education caused by corrupt governments. The LDS church gives them a way out. They receive money for school from the Mormon church, life-saving immunizations, food, and employment help.
alethiaaeterna 7 months ago
@TruthSeeker211 come on now......how many white men..........who have mixed it up have actually died??? this is all Satans scheme to keep the races apart and a way to justify slavery and seperatism. come on!!! do some research will ya. The Journal of Discourses never was the word of God or Doctrine of the LDS church
dganttable 9 months ago
@dganttable before you open your mouth do some research.
“The Journal of Discourses deservedly ranks as one of the standard works of the Church, and every rightminded Saint will certainly welcome with joy every number (issue) as it comes forth.“ (LDS MORmON Apostle George Q. Cannon, Journal of Discourses, Preface, Volume 8.)
George Quayle Cannon was an early member of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles and served in the First Presidency under four successive presidents...
TruthSeeker211 9 months ago
@TruthSeeker211 the discourses are not the word of God but the utterances of man. they are not scripture, never were and never will be, they are not one of the 4 Standard Works which are, if you did YOUR homework....The Bible, Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price. Obviously of which you have never read.
dganttable 9 months ago
Being black is nothing to be proud OR ashamed of.
You're not from another planet, dude. You're crazy.
ORCA4312 11 months ago
Are just kidding around or are you just an idiot? Have you even read that pamphlet, the picture of that section has to do with repentance, and it goes for EVERYBODY REGARDLESS OF THEIR RACE, they did not put a black person there with the intention of it being for blacks, and definitely not that they are not accepted, because they are accepted. Maybe you should look at some other media the LDS church has. There is a pass-a-long card I can think of right now with a happy black couple. How dare you
michaelgrella 1 year ago
@michaelgrella I think he is using it for illustration purposes, but you cannot deny that mormons are on a PR campaign to bring more blacks, especially american blacks into mormonism.
mr41ststreet 1 year ago
@michaelgrella READ
Blacks in MORmON scriptures
Blacks despised by the MORmON CULT
"...there was a blackness came upon all the children of Canaan, that they were despised among all people...(LDS Moses 7:8)."
MORmONS don't want Blacks among them
"...for the seed of Cain were BLACK,and had not place among them(LDS Moses 7:22)."
Black skin is an UGLY CURSE to MORmONS
"...that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a SKIN of BLACKNESS to come upon them(2 Nephi 5:21)"
TruthSeeker211 11 months ago
@TruthSeeker211 Look, i don't know if the children of Canaan are todays black people (it's not the doctrine of the church that they are), and even if they were, look how true that is, look at the time before MLK, so many people hated black people with there guts, but that doesn't mean that black people are evil, we belief in what called the Articles of Faith, the 2nd states "We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression."
michaelgrella 11 months ago
@michaelgrella This is your MORmON Doctrine of todays BLACKS read!
...Cain...HE BECAME THE FATHER OF AN INFERIOR RACE...MILLIONS OF SOULS HAVE COME INTO THIS WORLD CURSED WITH A BLACK SKIN and have been denied the privilege of Priesthood..."(The Way to Perfection,Joseph Fielding Smith,pages 101-102.)
Cain was cursed with a dark skin; he became the father of the negroes, and those spirits who are not worthy to receive the priesthood are born through his lineage..."Mormon Doctrine 1966 page 109.
TruthSeeker211 11 months ago
@michaelgrella see what your MORmON CULT teaches about BLACK people is EVIL!
" ... At least in the cases of the LAMANITES and the NEGROES we have the definite word of the Lord Himself that He placed a DARK SKIN upon them as a CURSE ... (Race Problems--As They Affect the Church, August 27, 1954, address at CES convention at Brigham Young University)
Joseph Smith:
"...The Lamanites...were CURSED with a SKIN of DARKNESS..."
:The Latter-Day Saints Millennial Star,vol.14, p. 418 "
TruthSeeker211 11 months ago