Re: Noam Chomsky on Pornography

[EndWesternTyranny]

of course you disagree with chomsky. you clearly spend all day watching porn

[DarkprinX2500]

i hate this word pornstar.. they should be called as what they are treated like slaves.. used napkins.. i'm glad my country doesn't have this ailment..

[DarkprinX2500]

your argument is absurd .. chomsky is true man...standing up for human rights.. while you want to trample all over them.. did it ever occur to you that sometimes people turn to the porn industry because they are desperate out of money, disfunctional family..etc

why do you want to stand in the way of ending something inherently evil.. society in order to remain harmonious must recognize marriage

(man and woman) as being very important not trivial .. not porn, strip clubs, and prostitution-

[darkoanton5]

Well said.

[matchbox555]

you FEMINAZIS will NEVER take my porn !!!

[matchbox555]

this dude is right

CHOMSKY IS WRONG

[scootaymildo]

Chomsky doesn't believe in Porn being criminalised anyway, he would just like to see a societal change where people (in particularly men) no longer desire to see women being degraded for personal pleasure. And he's clearly talking about organised mainstream porn, not horny amateur exhibitionists on a webcam.

[scootaymildo]

If your child is a daughter, would you be happy (or compliant at the very least) if she wanted to become an actress in the porn industry once she turns 18? (the same would apply if you had a son wanting to be in the gay porn industry assuming your're not a homophobe). To say no would make you a massive hypocrite, so answer carefully.

[DavidCaviar]

Prohibiting Pornography and Prostitution in order to protect women from the so-called degradation and exploitation of these businesses are in fact anti-feminist actions. Shouldn't a rational female adult be able to make an educated decision regarding her career path? Do we think so little of the female intellect that we need to make these options illegal in order to protect women from themselves?

[movezig1]

Wow man you're way off. Watch it again.

[berrylict]

you shouldn t flatter yourself so much (referring to "very well"). but of course chomsky is an idiot on this.... so i agree with you :P

[southof76]

"1:30 - Those who force others into making porn movies are usually put into jail for a very long time"

If you believe that instances where a person is being forced to create porn (ie filmed rape) usually result in the perpetrator(s) seeing lengthy jail time, then you must also believe that the perpetrator(s) are usually caught. You can't have it both ways.

[dmteply]

While I agree with you when you say that pornography is not always exploitative, you need to look at the entire picture also. And don't downplay the struggle many women have to face in society. Not that men do not face any either. Of course they do, but as a whole women still face a lot of struggle due to their gender.

[dmteply]

'cont-worked there for the money, because of economic difficulties. Women who worked in legal brothels however also had much better conditions, and often said they liked what they did also.

However it bothers me that you don't seem to realize that prostitution can also be very exploitative of women, particularly street prostitution. The study I showed that most of these women come from abusive backgrounds, and are doing this for survival.

It seems you can't look past your own biases.

[dubified89]

@dmteply Working at McDonald's can be very exploitative and probably pays a lot less and anyone who works any kind of a job for needed income is doing it for survival. I like how you people use emotion-ladden wording for stuff, that's called intellectual dishonesty. Like oh my god, they're working for their very survival!! Well so is everyone else so your attempt at manipulating us with that is a fail.

[dmteply]

@dubified89 Working at McDonald's is also exploitative, I never said that those kinds of jobs weren't. But women who work as sex workers are among the most abused and forgotten people in this society. It is not 'intellectual dishonesty' to say that these women suffer and experience a great deal of abuse. You can't completely deny that, and if you do, that is extremely ignorant and callous.

Note that I am not talking about porn starts, but illegal prostitution.

[dmteply]

No doubt that in this economy we live in today, men also have a great deal of trouble finding ways to support themselves economically. However, it is still a fact that overall, women tend to occupy the most menial lowest paying work. I study Sociology and this is what research still shows, and no doubt in my own experience and observance I see this. I did a study on prostitution, both legal and illegal forms, and a lot of the women interviewed who worked in legal brothels said that they-

[dubified89]

@dmteply "Overall, women tend to occupy the most menial lowest paying work" Well the recent stats show that 60 percent of college graduates are now women and I heard somewhere that women own the majority of property in America. But I get a feeling that even if the numbers were like 90 percent the talking point would still stay that women are oppressed because that's the leftist ideology and facts don't change it.

[dmteply]

@dubified89 Perhaps you should research more, because while women are becoming more educated, they still do not have equal playing field in the workforce. And it is still true that they occupy most of the lowest paying work. I'm not just pulling this out of my ass either.

The fact that women are oppressed is not just a 'leftist ideology', it's a fact that still exists. People are deluded who want to deny this.

[dmteply]

@dubified89 Yes, indeed women are becoming more educated. However it still shows that men still have better employment. I'm not just pulling stuff out of my ass or claiming this because I am trying to stick with a leftist ideology. This is what facts still show. People who refuse to acknowledge this at all are very blind. I could go on and on but I don't think it would make much difference if you refuse to see it.

Here is an article to look at.

[mikejpete]

@dmteply most of the people in college today are female.

[dmteply]

Okay, I have a few problems with your argument. While I am a big supporter of Noam Chomsky I didn't agree with everything he said about pornography, even though I'm not an advocate of porn either.

I find it said that you say you are an anarchist, yet you don't seem to have a lot of respect for feminism. You seem to think that feminism is all about coming down on men. And your comment saying, "I don't think feminists have lived in the real world" is very off base. -cont. next comment

[dmteply]

@dmteply I meant to say sad, not 'said'

[nochwilda]

i think noam chomsky was wrong for several reasons. sadly, you made none of those points. stop smoking.

the first is that NOT allowing porn is tantamount to censorship.

the second is that sex is an entirely natural, shameless act enjoyed to various degrees by all. ignoring that seems ignorant.

the third is that people will always have sex. people will also always want sexual excitement. banning porn is as successful a notion as banning drugs: it doesn't work, so make it legal and monitor it.

[vanhavihamiehesi]

You are 100% right on this one.

[sedatedcoho]

I agree with this video and came to the same conclusions after hearing Chomsky's views on pornography. I believe Chomsky's mistake is by perceiving porn in a literal sense and forgetting its just fantasy and at the end of the day it is simply up to the individual to decide if they wish to be involved - whether staring in it or simply watching it and clearly plenty of people do this hence amateur porn!

I'm also Libertarian, not right-wing though.

[TheWALOS]

I agree with one aspect; whether or no porn is exploitive has nothing to do with the fact that porn exists, in all the capacities in which it does exist. Homemade amateur porn is a good example; if porn was really exclusively made through exploitation, coercion, and force, this type of porn would not exist.

[deafcon4]

You don't know of anyone forced to make it?This shows the huge amount of ignorance inside your exceptionally small brain.I'm sure we could fill up the grand canyon with what you "don't know"...

[DanceswithUtube]

Being anti-porn does not make you anti-male. You're being willfully ignorant.

[horsepowerdude]

Hey Darganot. Chomsky never said that women are forced into it. But it is beyond doubt that women are frequently degraded in porn. If you deny this, then there is something wrong with you. Anyway you admit that porn both exploits men and women. Now the question becomes, what moral justification is there for society to allow men and women to be degraded and exploited? Explain yourself. Go ahead I challenge you.

[DanceswithUtube]

@horsepowerdude No! Don't encourage him! He's clearly a little unhinged. His 'explaination' will be a big pile of non-sensical... nonsense. Spare us :P

[matrim41]

@horsepowerdude What role does society have in deciding what is good for me? Perhaps I value income more than my dignity, but let's say that degrading work is banned, am I morally wrong in my valuations? Now, I understand how sex workers are regarded to be degraded, but how are they exploited?

[DarkprinX2500]

@matrim41 well i can say your an idiot. and with this philosophy it shows that you really don't care about people's worth .. people are worth more than to be objects on the screen vcatering to your desires.. so you can watch to satisfy your own lust.. many societies have no porn industry and they are doing just fine.. in fact i've been to some of them .. they are really nices places.. and marriage is more common and successful than in USA where free sex is more rampant and homosex

[DarkprinX2500]

@DarkprinX2500 these people think they can just go around screwing whoever they want .. with consent of course.. not taking into account their society, families, etc

it's careless and irresponsible.. it leads society down a path of destruction.. society needs to have some sort of ethical standards in government.. China is doing a great job.. it's cracked down recently on prostitution rings in the mainland.. clean up society of filth .. in form of ideas as well as practices

[matrim41]

@DarkprinX2500 "ethical standards in government.. . . . clean up society of filth. . ." I'd really like to see the disaster of a state we would have if we were to implement these ethical standards you wish to have. This is the problem of authoritarian states, it's always people deciding for other people what they should do with their lives. You may very well be a perfectly moral human, but that doesn't mean everyone should be made to live how you wish them to.

[matrim41]

@DarkprinX2500 Okay. In non-abstract terms, what is worth exactly? What is the amount of worth in each of us? "people are worth more than to be objects on the screen vcatering to your desires.. so you can watch to satisfy your own lust. . ." So, are you against television and the film industry? Also, why are you presumptive about who I am? Simply because I support the industry doesn't mean I participate in it. Continued.

[DarkprinX2500]

@matrim41 I don't see the correlation... btw film industry and porn.. however i do think that sometimes the film industry also stretches the limits and that's when you have pornographic elements and misogyny in mainstream movies ... the reason that their is a high demand for pornographic films is because society encourages it.. just like mainstream society encourages promiscuity ... it's become part of american culture. . if it wasn't promoted so much then it wouldn't be as prevalent

[matrim41]

@DarkprinX2500 "many societies have no porn industry and they are doing just fine.. in fact i've been to some of them .. they are really nices places.." That's fantastic. The porn industry isn't a necessary one, but it exists and there is a grand demand for it. Merely making something illegal doesn't automatically eliminate the supply, as the demand wouldn't at all change. America isn't a scummy place, no worse than other countries and if it were, I can guarantee that it isn't because of porn.

[matrim41]

@DarkprinX2500 "and marriage is more common and successful than in USA where free sex is more rampant and homosex" Marriage isn't a magical, sexual-stabilizer. What is the problem with free sex and, as you label it, "homosex?" "these people think they can just go around screwing whoever they want .. with consent of course.. not taking into account their society, families, etc" This is ridiculous. Except in the case of STDs, what are the societal impacts of "free sex?"

[DarkprinX2500]

@matrim41 i don't agree with that .. plus their is a pretty high divorce rate in USA also .. and you forgot to take account of all the homos.. i fail to see how a society can be stable without the institution of marriage.. society impacts of free sex.. lets see that's an easy one. increase in prostitution, broken marriages.. less marriages.. broken families. disfunctional families. mysogyny. unplanned pregnancies ..more orphans.. etc

[DarkprinX2500]

@matrim41 most people don't want to marry a non virgin .. and very few people have respect for promiscuous people..

[HLFracture]

lol you give Libertarians way too much credit. They're as marginal as anarchists. Marxists, feminists, etc are not all anti-porn.

And yes, you can say the same things about mechanics, repairmen, any labor job. Chomsky does. It's called anti-capitalism: you should control the work and labor you do, not a boss or owner who controls what options are available to you by maintaining control over the workplace. Your version of the wage slave argument is inaccurate

[kcssnotbubble]

He's saying the exact opposite. He said Women are willing to do it but that shouldn't be used as an excuse to condone porn. He uses the sweat shops as an example because those women work in the sweat shops willingly. He's saying he does not support these acts although the women themselves do.

[DanceswithUtube]

@kcssnotbubble Sheesh. Chomsky was so clear and logical, how can people NOT get it? Duh

[Neondub]

The way I see it is like this: Do we really want to promote pornography as a legitimate job for people to participate in? Is it really something we would be comfortable with if our mothers, daughters, aunties or friends choose to participate in? I could not think of anything more horrifying if they did. The fact that it gets a pass as a legimate commodity in our society, reveals a disturbing pathology about our circumstance I think.

[DanceswithUtube]

@Neondub I'm equally disturbed knowing that all the males in my life are consumers. I mean we all have an opinion of the women who participate in porn- but where is the accountablility of those who consume?

[iandmiller]

Sorry, darganot, if you can't comprehend Chomsky's argument regarding pornography, then you are no anarchist.

This issue goes way deeper than you think it does. For instance, 1 out of 6 women will be sexually assaulted at one time in their life. Most of these girls acquire huge emotional problems and end up on drugs or in an otherwise hopeless position. Instead of getting help and security they become fodder for porn and prostitution. And, no, most of them don't make a ton of cash doing it.

[DanceswithUtube]

@iandmiller Totally. There is a serious link between pornography and sexual violence. And when you consider that man-on-woman violence is the most common crime world wide, we really need to rethink our stance on this 'harmless' entertainment.

[LommyTeach]

What I think is most alarming about porno is in fact it's ability to disarm the conscious self and take over the unconscious - of both sexes, persuausions, yada yada There is a slippy slope in bedded in even the most tameist porno - which is the functionality of dehumanision of the other and then the self -how easy is it for us the individual to part from one shore of reasonableness and fairness and end up on the other shore of selfish definition of ourselves through the suffering of others?

[LommyTeach]

I can't be arsed watching the whole of this - but I will say that one hole in chomsky's statement is misleading " the degradation of women" - although women are in general less ppowerfulm in most society's than men - it still remains that women are like men their own worst enemies mor than 30% (?) of the time - homosexual porn of both genders for example is about mutual or onesided humiliation - and power and consequently not about gender inequality

[DanceswithUtube]

@LommyTeach Uh yeah, except for the fact that it is always the woman being degraded. I mean, it's reapeated, massively one-sided and severe... it truly says something of man's opinion of woman. 

[J4phyRyder]

@pnggolfer9

I'm afraid you haven't actually countered his argument in anyway, merly stated that you disagree with it. Likening to alcholism is not helpful - he could reply that many biscuit eaters choose to buy biscuits. Describing it as "an objectively immoral dedredation of people" is also unhelpful. "Objectively immoral" is a problematic enough phrase in itself. You need to state something that makes it so. You then finish with an ad hominam.

Not that I disagree with your position, per se.

[melvinbrag]

@pnggolfer9 How is pornography an objective degradation of people?

[pnggolfer9]

@melvinbrag Objective might be too strong of a word that I chose to use.

it won't me put the links in, but google scholar search: "pornography degradation"

Seriously, read these articles, then check out some of the ones they cited, then check out some other articles that have been published since then. This isn't even a debate. As I said before, the "willingness" of the participants is the only leg that supporters of pornography have.

[ryanchandler25]

@pnggolfer9 Funny!! Question for you. Why are politicians so concerned about how immoral porn and porn producers are, yet man of them, like the McCains, stock the very liquor stores you're referring to?? See anything immoral about that maybe??

[pnggolfer9]

@ryanchandler25 Wow, you totally missed the point; so much so that I am not even sure a response by me or anyone else with a coherent thought will convince you otherwise. 1) how do politicians stock liquor stores with pornography? 2) if they do, what difference does it make? 3) I wasn't saying liquor stores are immoral. My point was that it is voluntary for alcoholics go into liquor stores to buy alcohol. see below....

[ryanchandler25]

@pnggolfer9 Looking at social ills and families destroyed, damage done by alcohol is far greater than any issue caused by porn. Many say to shut down porn b/c kids might see it and dad might get addicted. Yet these same people give little thought to sitting "johnny" in front ot the tv on football Sunday, where he sees beer commericals galore. I know you weren't saying liquor stores are immoral. I'm sure in your world it's ok to have a liquor store on every other corner, b/c hey it's voluntary.

[pnggolfer9]

@ryanchandler25 I don't disagree with you that alcohol abuse is a far worse issue in its effect on society. I am not going to try and sum up all of the reasons why some people want porn banned.  To be honest, I'm not even sure it needs to be banned (alcohol too). But very quickly, you think in terms of porn's effect on the end user, I am referring to the performers. Did you even read my post? I attempted to equate people volunteering to do porn as Muslim women choosing to wear a burka.

[dubified89]

@pnggolfer9 You're the special enlightened group that gets to tell everyone what to do because everyone's choices are socially constructed except yours, we get it

[ryanchandler25]

@pnggolfer9 And also how do you really know what is and what is not voluntary? There are mulit-millionaire women CEOs in the industry that call all the shots. If all this stuff was non-voluntary, as you claim it to be, law enforcement would have capitalized on it long ago and the industry would be shut down.

[pnggolfer9]

@ryanchandler25 Fair enough question. How about this though: does the fact that women made a lot of money selling their body negate the fact they had to be treated as objects to do so? Certainly, there are many reasons why women AND men get into porn. I think the vast majority do it as a source of income that they may or may not be able to provide otherwise. Still, I think trying to determine if they needed to do porn or if it were voluntary is completely missing the issue of why its wrong.

[dubified89]

@pnggolfer9 'Treated as objects', more emotional-laden manipulative wording. Someone who works in basically any kind of job is essentially being treated as an object, they're being treated as a machine that completes tasks. And even if there was no capitalism it wouldn't end because things would still need to get done in order for life to continue. 'Treated as an object' is really just a silly, immature sounding way to put it. Like if I pick crops for a living I could say, 'yeah at my job I'm

[dubified89]

really being treated like an object, like I'm just a machine that's there to pick vegetables! But I'm so much more than that!' See how dumb that sounds? That's the level of thinking that you're on. Now actually there probably is a lot of truth to the idea that we're all coerced into servitude to an extent that might not exist if the economic system didn't run as it is and wasn't imposed on us as it is by the government. But the fact remains that people should still be able to choose what

[dubified89]

employment they seek, within reasonable boundaries such as it not being allowed to mug people for a living

[pnggolfer9]

@dubified89 I think that is a particularly poor and sad attempt at semantics. What are you in a philosophy class right now? Would it help if I added to my original statement and said "treated as sexual objects"? I'm sorry that you have such a grim look at things. If what you say is true and any job objectifies people, would it still negate the fact that it's wrong for people to be objectified or would it just be manipulative to say they are? Help me out here.

[pnggolfer9]

@ryanchandler25 Probably a poor analogy in this case since they are addicted, and they are arguably not voluntarily going into the store. How about this: although some Muslim women say they choose to wear a burka (full veil), it does not negate the fact that it is demeaning for them. Some of these women go so far as to say that it is empowering. Sound familiar?

[dubified89]

@pnggolfer9 'Yeah and then go mug an old lady or kick a puppy or something cause you probably do that too!' Real mature discourse. Your counter-argument to the video is "Free choice doesn't trump an objectively immoral degradation of people". Which in other words means "I want to be able to tell people what to do, even when it's not my business." If someone develops a problem with addiction guess what, there are rehabs and things they can go to try to quit. But you just want to remove the liquor

[dubified89]

@dubified89 store so that the rest of us, who practice self-control, won't be able to ever have a drink from time to time and be responsible about it. You know, cause we're adults and all and don't need other adults who think they're special telling us what to do. As long as we aren't hurting anyone, excluding ourselves. It's this obscure concept called freedom, you should look it up some time.

[AvocadoDharma]

What an idiot.

[beekayaye]

I think you have totally missed the point. Your incoherent. And you think to much about what you think. Stay off the weed bro, your all over the place.

[thelaughingman]

lol amen

[dubified89]

@beekayaye Yeah stay off the weed bro, don't do anything that might make you feel good we're trying to promote austere ideological zealotry here. For Jesus--er I mean, for Social Justice

[AfricanPrince]

The idea that porn is necessarily exploitative of women or men is complete nonsense, I agree. Chomsky has disappointed me on this one, I don't think I can take him seriously now. Porn isn't the result of male domination it's the product of consermism, porn is directed to men simply because men are more visual andlikely to purchase porn. The idea of a libertarian criticizing porn is laughable and so is politicizing sex . All true anarchists are libertarians, clearly Chomsky is not an anarchist.

[lifestraight]

@AfricanPrince Pornorgraphy is very denigratory of women. Even if they CHOOSE to do it, they are still being degraded. If a man chooses to be a slave, he's still a slave. If he voluntarily walks into slavery he still will be susceptible to the conditions of an oppressive slave system. Likewise with porn. Women may choose it and it is their right, but they are still being degraded and objectified. Chomsky is simply saying he doesn't like it, and there's nothing wrong with that.

[DarkprinX2500]

@lifestraight you make an excellent point. very well said.. and i agree

Chomsky is standing up for human worth...while those porn moguls.. are just using people so that they can become rich.. they'll use any "legal" means to do it..and it seems they want to denigrate society .. because most pornography is hardcore and extreme.. their is nothing civilized about the porn industry

[unit023]

The coercion is economic. If decent, fulfilling and well paying jobs were widely available I'm pretty sure 99% of the women AND men doing porn would quit immediately.

[lifestraight]

@unit023 Women might, but I don't know many men who would give up a job that pays them to fuck hot women.

[MoonAharshMistress]

i say they naively assume its liberating but then in fact become an adult abuse victim ; usually they are the first people to be raped because of their lack of foolhardiness..

only difference being they hav less legal standing than a child, and less artillery at disposal than girls whove been routinely abused in childhood ...alltogether, a dreadful, vulnerable predicament to be in.

A womanwho has never been sexually abused in childhood, Should NeVER do porn/prostitution

[lifestraight]

@MoonAharshMistress A woman who HAS been sexually abused should never do porn also.

[MoonAharshMistress]

Very naive young man.

you know nothing about pornography, wether women are forced or not or anything elsse.

All you are is just a consumer

[bevviebuns]

You say these scenarios in porn films are fake. yes they may be. But do you go to a sweet shop if you dont want to buy sweets? It plants the very wrong ideal in mind. And you cant un think things. There is so much domestic abuse.. not everyone is sane in mind, and by the way.. in the real world.. women want to feel like you love them for who they are, not if they have a 'F'-able ass. it lets men down.

[bevviebuns]

It is shocking that women are seen as weak and are judged on their looks. It is so shallow. Men have the choice to not watch porn and support this base lack of respect for women and themselves

I have less respect for men because they take part in this activity. Sex shouldnt be shown in this manner. It feels wrong. And btw, with these ideals by the media, its REALLY HARD being a girl, and being yourself.. showing your mind aswell as your tits. please understand that it makes women feel opressed.

[bevviebuns]

ok. Lets take this in a real life stance. You made a comment about MARXIST FEMINISTs.

# Now you can keep your fancy terms, but I am a regular girl. I came to notice porn in my mid-teens.. and it seemed unreal. It shocked me. Now the actual thing youre seeing is men having their way with women regardless. It displays a lack of respect and an absolute EGO trip for men.

[MUDMARCHING3333]

your a dork.

[DaveDoggOwns]

Chomsky is not a real anarchist. He has rhoutinely defended and advocated the use of the state to bring about his ends.

[fathermocker123]

chomsky is an anarchist in a postmodern world...

[DaveDoggOwns]

Chomsky is hardly any different than Karl Marx. Both intend to bring socialist anarchism AFTER the state is used against capitalism.

[fathermocker123]

and its there that their simmilarities end.

[ioploki]

Sure you can say the same thing about a gas station clerk, although - face it - you'd rather operate a cash register tahn be double-penetrated. So what? Comparing exploitation to exploitation doesn't make exploitation disappear.

Amateur porn; what are you talking about? If it's amateur, it wouldn't be in the commercial market.

"People are porn because they like it." Horseshit! Is that gas station clerk there because he likes it?

[utubegirlx]

This guys argument carries no weight., anyone with intelligence can see that easily.

Noam just tells it like is and really is and sticks to his word even it goes against the grain.

Arguments like this is just him defending his right to be a wanker. Quite literally I might add.

The longer you watch this sad video the more you realise it's about his own personal issues.

Please don't try to speak for any women you just seem pathetic.

[bevviebuns]

absolutely. Who is he to speak for women! I didnt speak for men! It sounds like guilt and a weak mind to me. Another sheep.

[hellaboobs]

This guy needs to do his HOMEWORK before dropping the "ABSURD" on Noam Chomsky. Porn is HIGHLY addictive and HIGHLY exploitative.

I loath people who seek to get attention by attempting to debunk GREAT minds, only to FAIL.

Next?

[spartan2600]

that they are, due to the nature of our economic system, forced to act in porn is besides the point. as he explained, children choose to work in sweatshops in the same way, they have to. does it make sweatshops ok? no.

[mrtyles]

did you disable comments? testing.

[mrtyles]

As for libertarianism, yes I believe people should have the freedom to choose their partners and have unconventional sex, so long as it does not hurt the other person. I don't think one should have the freedom to molest and abuse. Negative freedom, is abused as a way to justify inequality, and criminality. Not always but sometimes. I guess that makes me a commie doesn't it.

[mrtyles]

I watch porn as well, but I think your arguments are a bit flawed. Anyway, it's not something I'm proud of, and I think some of what I've seen is abusive. Not all of it is. The Bangbus is abusive. The makers claim that it's faked, but then you could claim that anything that crosses the line is fake no matter how real it looks. Shoving your dick down a woman's throat is not a magic trick.

[lifestraight]

@mrtyles Even if bangbus is fake, the images they project of women being fucked then dumped off on the side of the road is very degrading. I'm sure it's not real, but the imagery is denigratory.

[mrtyles]

I suppose if you saw a man beheaded, you'd say it was fake too. I guess that justifies graphic violence in movies. Oh well, so goes society. So if a woman is resisting and it looks like rape it must be fake. Good argument.

[mrtyles]

i don't know many people who are forced to watch pornography. i've heard of child molesters making children watch it, and husbands making their wives watch it. It's not impossible.

[mrtyles]

not all people make porn because they want to. I once saw a porn where the woman initially agreed and was then put in a very uncomfortable position where she began to yell "F---you" to the man. It was free, and supposedly legal.

[mrtyles]

I myself think pornography as the act of graphically depicted sexuality is not wrong. However I think using women for pleasure (at the expense of the woman) is. How would you feel if your sister were in a porn movie? Or if you were in a porn movie?

[kabeerajameela]

You should check out post-structural feminists, like Judith Butler, to see some of the massive assumption that many liberal and marxist feminists make in their critique of patriarchal institutions and media (like porn)

[k3304]

Chomsky believes whatever bullshit comes out of his mouth at the moment. He's so full of himself and being so self-important. What a narcisist !!

[SpeedyOJ]

so who r the ones that force people into doing porn and r convicted for it?

[Eceoes]

Ok you have points, but pornography in nature is exploitive, to both women and men. Your comment on jobs like gas station worker or any other job is not so rational. Being involved in pornography in no way what so ever should be compared to regular jobs. Its A LOT harder for women to find a job compared to men. What Chomspky said was that women are more victims because jobs are not available to them compared to men. Also for facts, many porn stars have disturbing pasts.

[Eceoes]

I personally have a HUGE bias against using the word freedom, and I think freedom is the most abused definition ever. There is a difference between freedom and power, and anything that involves exploitation is NOT freedom, its power. This is why I am strongly against libertarians and anarchist, because their ideology of "freedom" is very irrational and unrealistic. Pornography is an object of exploitation NOT freedom. I am not taking any sides or suggesting the baning of porn.

[mrtyles]

Negative freedom is the type that they are talking about. It is still freedom in the technical sense. Not all freedom is necessarily good. You've got to respect other people's semantics if you want to have a rational discussion. I happen to disagree with libertarians who think people should just be able to do what they want.

[mrtyles]

Of course it could be argued that I'm disrespecting your semantics by superimposing my terminology on you. I'm a political science major.

[Eceoes]

I totally agree to what you just said.

[JTsmiley14]

Of course, that does not mean that pornography should be illegal, or amateur pornographers are inherently evil, but branding things like pornography as "choice and that's it" is to disregard social/cultural theory, and psychology completely. Also: PENIS! :)

[JTsmiley14]

That takes care of the choice to engage in such activity, but on the receiving end it must be recognized that a woman can be degraded and objectified with her consent: that does not solve the issue of whether it's a good thing to objectify people or not.

[JTsmiley14]

First of all, the concept of choice is a drastic oversimplification of the ramifications of our culture on people, particularly women. This is basic social theory as far as I know. Women "choose" to engage in pornography for a lot of psychological reasons that tend to be linked to low self-esteem and a lack of self-respect.

[Dykonoclast]

Getting Off: Pornography and the End of Masculinity by Robert Jensen from South End Press, 2007.

[Dykonoclast]

Gross, dude.  Read a book.

[Darganot]

I read books all the time. Right now I'm reading "The Cather in the Rye" (didn't read it in school). I plan on picking up "Ishmael" as soon as I can.

If you have a suggestion that isn't male hating vitriol, I'm all ears.

[SpeedyOJ]

ok i'll ask you again, who r the ones that force people into doing porn and r convicted for it? btw r you saying working at a gas station is the same as working in porn? if so then i agree with the first word u said in this vid, absurd

[Spillers72]

Porn is the degradation of women;the commercialization of sex;and appeals to the basest nature in people.Its not a good thing.Should the government ban it? No, but like what Chomsky said work on reducing the conditions that push women into such an industry.Same with prostitution, don't keep it criminal, but work to improve conditions so that women do not feel compelled economically into it. Just because your a libertarian does not mean you have to like things like porn, drugs, or prostitution.

[djtanner66]

@Dykonoclast yeeaa, take into account the personal history of abuse and trauma. its not a question of "forced" or consenting. These girls aren't happy they come from an abusive background and are acting it out on screen same goes for the men. Its all abuse. Libertarian, Commie, Capitalist it's an ethical problem, so don't put the libertarian label to justify your position.

[dubified89]

@djtanner66 Once someone's an adult they have to be allowed to make their own choices regardless of the motivations behind them. Or to put it another way, what gives you the right to decide what they do more than they have it? Just because you think you've analyzed it and figured it all out? And you think all these people are going to want you intruding into their lives and possibly using coercion to get them to do what you want them to, based on your little analysis and 'critiques'?

[dubified89]

@Dykonoclast Wow that was a really insightful comment. It's a good thing that Chomsky supporters act like free thinking, articulate people and not some kind of group-think cult

[KenCat1337]

rofl You porn addict.

[shamrock929292]

His argument against it isn't that it's Wage Slavery. His argument is that it's degrading to women, portrays them as something they're not, and therefore has destructive consequences. And he's totally right.

[fredt323]

what the heck is even the argument here? some find porn liberating, some don't. Chomsky is such a turd.

[comradepinko]

Not all porn is exploitation. That seems to be the only point to make against Chomsky and people seem to be throwing a huge stink over this.

If you think all porn is exploitation of women then you're ignorant.

[yrrmom]

Also, it's hard to see how relevant is tirade about "if it weren't for the demand for porn, we wouldn't have webcams, etc." That seems like saying: "If it weren't for the demand for sweatshop workers, we wouldn't have cheap tennis shoes etc." Where is this supposed to lead?

[Darganot]

I'm saying YOU wouldn't be using the internet if it weren't for porn, n00b.

I avoid the subject of objective rights and wrongs, because any discussion of them is SUBJECTIVE.

Someone getting robbed is like a woman wanting to show herself off??? Give me a fucking break. No one hold a gun to anyone's head to do this stuff, I made this point in the video. Don't give me any HORSE SHIT about survival, either. Plant a garden if you want to survive.

My argument is against prohibition.

[yrrmom]

Your responses make it clear that you don't understand any of my objections. Also, it's now clear to me why your thinking in the vid is so muddled: you didn't understand what Chomsky was saying either. It frankly surprises me that someone so unwilling or unable to understand another person would be so confident about their own understanding of things to post vids on youtube about it and expect anyone else to take them seriously. Goodbye.

[Darganot]

Nice attempt at intellectual bullying, but your watered down feminazism isn't enough to make me stop. The fact that I get under your skin enough to make you call on things like slavery or sweatshops to justify your absurd position is proof enough to me that I'm right.

Do you even know what amateur porn is??? I doubt it. So, what about a husband and wife who've never slept with anyone else posting pictures of themselves on the internet? THAT is what I'M talking about.

[yrrmom]

You're clearly an idiot. But, for the edification of other youtubers who may be reading, I'll respond once more: By intellectual bullying you must mean refuting weak arguments ruthlessly, because what you have yet to do is respond to my points with anything more substantial than "give me a break" & "HORSE SHIT". You're still foaming senselessly in this last reply. Now, if you sit down & apply the "Socratic Method" you're so fond of, maybe you'll actually learn something. I'll leave you to it.

[Darganot]

Your arguments are riddled with fallacies, and with so little space I'm not going to bother pointing them all out. If you're so good at debate then you should know what they are. The only good point you've brought up yet is in fact a Socratic one:

"What is consent?"

This is a topic worthy of another video I feel. You've also failed to address my point, that not everyone in porn is a "PORN STAR WITH 100+ PARTNERS".

Still want to get the last word? Go ahead, professor.

[DanceswithUtube]

@Darganot Feminazi? You're using propaganda as a tactic?

[yrrmom]

Concerning your tirade about "societal norms": Is the idea that slavery is wrong a "societal norm"? Or is it just plain wrong. Unless your point is that there is nothing objectively wrong, it's hard to see what your point is. And if your point is that there's nothing objectively wrong, then you're not worth listening to.

[yrrmom]

Also, how does the (alleged) fact that men too are "exploited by porn" prove that women aren't? Also, Chomsky did say if you enjoy humiliation of women, you got a problem; but he didn't give that as an *argument* against porn.

[yrrmom]

Whatever "gains" in self-esteem a porn "star" gets from doing porn pale greatly in comparison to the blows to self-esteem which they suffered before doing the porn & which led them to it in the 1st place. Isn't it a little sick that *anyone* feels the need to "consent" to 100+ sexual partners in order to get a boast in self-esteem or "feel liberated"? Some may have gone into it whether or not they were degraded in the 1st place; but it's hard to believe those are more than 1 in 1,000.

[yrrmom]

"People do porn because they want to." But the question is: what *makes* them want to? Evidently you don't think it matters: as long as they want to, it's ok. You seem oblivious to the fact that there are degrees of consent ranging from the cashier's consenting to handing over the $ when a gun's pointed at his head, to the gunman's consenting to be given the $. Clearly not all consent is alike & clearly not all consent implies free action or lack of exploitation.

[06simpry]

Amateur porn disproves that it is exploitive and degrading? No it proves that many women have a serious sex addiction and self-loathing problem. If you havn't noticed that in porn, you are pretty thick.

[Darganot]

I've removed the previous comments at her/his request. All I did was ask for an apology, which was apparently a threat, and received several threats in response.

This is why I don't talk about this crap.

[comradepinko]

Does it make sense to be offended by threats then respond with threats?

[FistsoFuckinFreedom]

Oh, yeah I forgot. You're 100% right.

[Harpakhrad11]

That is the stupidest comment I have ever seen on this site.

[comradepinko]

That's about as stupid as my driver's ed teacher when I was 16 claiming that "100% of male teens will get into an auto accident within the first year of gaining their license."

You could argue that there is a higher rate of occurrence, but if you're claiming that 100% of those involved in pornography are former victims of molestation then you're clearly being dishonest or deluding yourself.

[comradepinko]

I don't think that was his point. He didn't say that the cause for all women taking part in pornography is molestation, it was that it is degrading to women. He didn't talk about the cause he talked about the result.

[FistsoFuckinFreedom]

Some women do it for that reason, some women don't. And if that's what he meant to say then why didn't he say that. He's an intelligent man, let him speak for himself.

[lGnossos]

You have some points, dude. However, after having been to tiajuana and seeing all the women who prostitute themselves, not because they want to do it, but because it's the only way for them to make a living, I see chomsky's point. It is disgusting for those who are forced into it out of necessity. Sure, some people probably do enjoy jobs in the porn industry, but how many of them do it because they have no other option? Ever heard about the enormous suicide rates in the industry?Worth considerig

[dontleaveyet]

George Carlin did porn? :o

[Darganot]

No, I was referring to an episode of "Playboy after dark" he appeared on, which was a variety show hosted by Heff.

watch?v=XLuTREleDHE

[T850CSM101a1676]

Fuck gnome crapski!

[dudleyp]

You're completely mischaractizing Chomsky's argument. He is not claiming that women are forced into pornography in a way that mirrors the forced labour of children. His point is that you cannot argue in favor of pornography simply because people freely consent to perform. Consent is insufficient. He brings this point out, by analogy, with reference to the case of forced labor, where it is clear that even though such labor may be freely chosen it is not something we would wish to condone.

[comradepinko]

I think his point was that all pornography necessarily degrades women, and even with women consenting to it he opposes it. I'm not quite sure how gay porn does that, or how porn with a dominant female doing some crazy S&M shit with a guy does that, but that seems to have been his point.

[Darganot]

"Consent is insufficient"

Wow... I'm not even sure what do say to that. That pretty much proves my point, that this is more about forcing morality on people than anything else.

What more than consent can a person give?

[dudleyp]

"What more than consent can a person give?"

A good reason for doing what they do! You're still blind to Chomsky's point. Just because a child consents to work does not mean we should celebrate their doing so. We should try to stop the practice (by eliminating the conditions that lead them to work). Chomsky thinks pornography is degrading even if it is freely chosen. I don't agree that it is degrading in all circumstances, but I do agree that consent is not enough to prove that it is ok. Right?

[kmarkymark]

you ramble!, but are you a fan of facials and snowballing!

[napalmtube]

this is part of the reason socialism is starting to creep me out.

[Harpakhrad11]

Do you home school your child?

[Darganot]

He's only 3, but I plan to, yes.

[Harpakhrad11]

Lucky for him! Anyone who would attack your character for staying home and taking care of your son is an asshole. Fuck them.

[niquetarass]

@Darganot show him some amateur porn, it's nothing bad, right? :/ I wonder what you would think if you saw your daughter double-penetrated during one of your jack-off sessions. It's OK as long as it concerns people we don't really care for. Have you ever listened to these women's testimonies? Are you blind not to see the damage it makes to their emotional lifes? In your opinion why haven't you found among all these comments even one woman that would agree with you?

[niquetarass]

I used to hear the opinions like yours only from the men and to be honest not really educated or intelligent. I advise you to volonteer for a couple of weeks for LaStrada or some similar organisation, we'll see if you won't change your mind.

[thorsmitersaw]

I agree. This is just one more reason I do not like Chomsky. :-P