Phlegon to Thallus: Jesus Christ, according to the prophecies which had been foretold about him beforehand, came to his passion in the eighteenth year of Tiberius, at which time also we find these things written verbatim in other commentaries of the gentiles, that an eclipse of the sun happened, Bithynia was shaken by earthquake, and in the city of Nicaea many buildings collapsed, all of which agree with what occurred in the passion of the savior.
cont Indeed Phlegon, who is an excellent calculator of Olympiads, also writes about these things, writing thus in his thirteenth book: In the fourth year, however, of Olympiad 202,* an eclipse of the sun happened, greater and more excellent than any that had happened before it; at the sixth hour, day turned into dark night, so that the stars were seen in the sky, and an earthquake in Bithynia toppled many buildings of the city of Nicaea.
@kgxxx10 What you have here is the Roman Catholic Church trying to PROVE the BS bible by having one of their priests make up a lie about what a Historian wrote..THAT THEY CAN'T PRODUCE??
Thats right, the ONLY proof you could find is a FORGERY and everyone knows it.
That dosen't stop you from using it, lol.
Here is a little SCIENCE
You CAN'T have a Solar Eclipse during a FULL MOON..
@kgxxx10 lol, you cant have a solar eclipse during a full moon..IMPOSSIBLE!
You have FORGERIES perpetrted by the Roman Catholic Church..as I just PROVED.
This "Historical Document" DOSENT EXIST..IT NEVER DID
The dumb Church that refuted SCIENCE used LIES that we now know are ridiculous. BTW, EVERYONE..all scholars KNOW that Josepheus was a Forgery. This "great man" gave Jesus 3 sentences??
God, who was crucified and the graves opened up and the dead walked..NO MENTION.
@kgxxx10 Dr Jordan Stein.."...the vast majority of scholars since the early 1800s have said that this quotation is not by Josephus, but rather is a later Christian insertion in his works. In other words, it is a forgery, rejected by scholars."
Charles Guignebert..a pure Christian forgery
Lardner, Harnack and Schurer, along with others, declared it entirely spurious.
@DraugarX Nice try. Eucibus recognized it in 320AD, therefore it must have been a really early insert. Just because others don't quote it does not make it a forgery. He also mentions the census, John the Baptist, and other events chronicled in the Gospels. I can understand why you would want it to be a forgery. Even if it is I am still 2 references over your zero!
@DraugarX Yeah I read this, I would suggest that you actually read these text. Origen mentions that Josephus talks about John the Baptist, he also talks about him talking about James the brother of Jesus. While he does not quote him directly it seems pretty clear that the text is original. Note Josephus rejected Jesus as the Christ, and the text indicates that he did not believe him to be the Christ, rather just a good person.
@DraugarX Origen on Matthew 10.17 [A] But James is this one whom Paul says that he saw in the epistle to the Galatians, saying: But I did not see any of the other apostles except James the brother of the Lord. [B1] And in such a way among the people did this James shine for his justice [C] that Flavius Josephus, who wrote the Judaic Antiquities in twenty books, [D] wishing to demonstrate the cause why the people suffered such great things that even the temple was razed down, ...
@DraugarX cont [E1] said that these things came to pass against them in accordance with the ire of God on account of the things which were dared by them against James the brother of Jesus who is called Christ. [F] And the wondrous thing is that, although he did not accept our Jesus to be Christ, [B2] he yet testified that the justice of James was not at all small; [E2] and he says that even the people supposed they had suffered these things on account of James.
@kgxxx10 So, basically, your only proof is a FORGERY that everyone has know about for hundreds of years. You can keep saying that you have 2 sources outside the bible when you have FORGERIES..PROVEN FORGERIES.
Now, knowing that this is a forgery..WHY do you think the RCC needed to produce one back in 400 AD? During the time the Roman Emperor made this the NEW UNIVERSAL Religion!
ONLY the bible tells these TALES and the RCC had to FORGE history books because NOBODY mentioned these stories.
@DraugarX Even if this is what he wrote, it goes a long way to proving the authenticity of the Gospels. This part of the text is not really disputed. Also I would not expect Josephus to accept Jesus as the Christ.
@kgxxx10 lol, You are TRYING to PROVE that the "sky turned black and the earth shook and the graves opened up and the DAMN DEAD got up and walked to town and hung out with their friends
Now, all you have done is find some BS verses from a FORGED HISTORY that says some guy named Jesus was crucified? Hey, they let a guy name JESUS go free!
I am sure JESUS was a common name..besides Jesus WASNT his name untill the 16th century. LOLOLOL
@DraugarX Well I am still waiting for you to provide rejections of the Gospels, all you can do is claim that the extra biblical references that I gave were forged. There is other evidence that you can look up. I also notice that you never give any references to your quotes. So provide proof that the Gospels were questioned by the writers of that time. Note even the Talmud takes about Jesus. Suprised the Jews would be so adimt to get rid of someone fictisous.
@DraugarX Well these books were widely circulated, They talked about real events with real people. So if they are a fake, then people must not have been able to find any witnesses, or remembered things differently, they surely would have wrote something commenting on the lack of facts in these books.
We have many early christain writers commenting on many of the non-cannonical books, and other sects. Why is there no literature denying the events in the Gospel?
@kgxxx10 Esubius wrote theses few sentences in 400 AD.
Someone would need to be 350 years old plus to be a "WITNESS".
Just give it up. Apparantly you have an ability to research..research what you find before you believe it. Look at both sides, then you will know that these FORGERIES are just that.
Look, I am not saying there isn't a God, I'm just saying that the God in the bible is NOT HIM. The stories about Jesus are NOT REAL.
The stories of God slaughtering millions ARE NOT REAL.
@DraugarX We do not know for a fact the Eucibus wrote these sentences. However not all of the text is a forgery, much of it is in the original. Origen also seems to indicate that Josephus talked about the events in the Gospels, yet he did not believe that Christ was the Messiah. Note there were a lot of those claiming to be the Messiah around that time. Most tried to start a rebelion and were taken care of by the Romans.
@DraugarX I'm also still waiting for to tell me how you know what you know about God. The closet I have gotten is this is what I believe. This proves nothing since your believes could be wrong.
@DraugarX You missunderstand what it means to love, you have a romantic view of love, not a biblical view of love. To Love is to will the good of another without expecting anything in return. Sometimes this means making some tough choices (ever hear of intervention, or tough love). The God of the bible is also Just, this means that he holds us responsable for our actions.
In terms of free will vs God's plan, God works within our freewill to achieve what he wants, this is a mystery.
@DraugarX I Sam 2 [6] The Lord killeth and maketh alive, he bringeth down to hell and bringeth back again. [7] The Lord maketh poor and maketh rich, he humbleth and he exalteth. [8] He raiseth up the needy from the dust, and lifteth up the poor from the dunghill: that he may sit with princes, and hold the throne of glory. For the poles of the earth are the Lord's, and upon them he hath set the world.
@DraugarX [9] He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness, because no man shall prevail by his own strength.
If God gave you life he has the right to take it when he deems it is time. Even you would have to agree. Your life comes from God either directly or indirectly (depending on your point of view). Either way it is ultimatly his to give or take.
@DraugarX I use the word Mystery, becuase our feeble human mind can understand how God works or decides things. Is 55:9. For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts.
To have a God who is fully comprehensable is to have a finite limited God who just happens to be more powerfull then we are. This is a human invention. It is also very vain to believe we can understand God when we can't even understand outselves!
@kgxxx10 You ask, "Why is there no literature denying the events in the Gospel?"
1st, the RCC, your church, murdered everyone saying different and they not only burned them, they burned all the literature that opposed their ROAD TO RICHES!
There is a lot of literature TODAY about this being false and fake. There is Islam, Shinto, Hindu, Zeus, Odin, Myan, Aztec, Osiris, Amen Ra, Mithra, and the list goes on and on and on.
Don't even think thee isnt literature that denys the bible
@DraugarX I highly dought this... We have the gnostic gospels, and many other books that were condemed, are still available. Also until 400-500 AD the Church lacked the resources to carry about a wide spead removal of documents.
I know that there is literature that denies the Bible, I am looking for literature written around 40-100 AD that debunks the Gospels.
@kgxxx10 They are only available because they were recently discovered.
Nag Hamdi-Dead Sea Scrolls
If the RCC had found them, they would have burned them with the owners.
You refuse to believe this, too.
You deny everything that goes against your belief. You only accept the things that confirm your belief.
This is SUSPECT BIAS
You discard, without even looking, at any evidence that points in a direction that you aren't aiming at. Then you say ALL the evidence points to this..
@DraugarX Why would they burn and destroy them. They are the OT, and the help us to see that the OT we have today is virtualy identical to the OT they used back then. If anything this shows that something is protecting these documents from error.
As to refusng to wrap my mind around a God who destroys, I have, I can see reasons why he did things the way he did in the OT, I don't nessisarly like them, but I do not ignore them. There is a lot of very hard things in scripture!
@DraugarX After you explain to me how you know that God is Good, not just because this is what you feel. I want to know facts. Also I want you to explain to be what God would consider good.
I also would like to know why God would not allow us to defend ourselves against unjust attacks?
I would also like to know how you know what is morally right... by what criteria do you come to these believes.
@kgxxx10 Morally Right? Do you know what is right? Is God killing babies Right? Is God giving Davids wives to another man RIGHT? Is taking adolescent girls as Virgin Sex Slaves Right? How is keeping a 10 YO Virgin for Sex.."Defending ourselves"? How is killing all the animals.."Defending ourselves"? How is cutting little babies into pieces.."Defending ourselves"? How is slaughtering pregnant women.."Defending ourselves"? Is God Just? Does any of that sound JUST Does any of that sound moral
@DraugarX Ok... I asked you before if it is right morally right to defend ourselves, I did not specify how this was to be done. I suggested killing the Adult males who were the ones attacking the Jews, but you said this was also not morally right. So what is the morally right way to defend ourselves against an attacker?
Also please tell me how you know that God is Good, and what this means, and how you know this?
@kgxxx10 Morally Right? No, you didn't ask if it was "morally right" for US to defend ourselves. Sure, we should always defend ourselves.
How is God killing Davids baby..US defending ourselves"?
How is God sending plagues and floods..US defending ourselves"?
How is God saying to slaughter the women and children and animals and saying to take the Adolescent Girl Virgins as sex slaves..US defending ourselves.
You are twisting Gods commands to try and justify them.
@DraugarX I'm trying to help you understand this. Work with me.
Ok... we both agree that it is morally right to defend ourselves against unjust attacks.
Now the Amalekites were attacking the Israelites without cause, raiding and killing people, selling them off to slavery, etc. So what would be a good method for the Israelites to use to defend themselves against these people? This had been going on since they left Egypt, so this need to be sometime more then border patrols. How?
@kgxxx10 I am not talking about what Amalekites or Israelites did..I am talking about what God did.
How can you say them "raiding and killing people, selling them off to slavery, etc. and act as though this is wrong and in the same breath say that killing the men, women and children and their donkeys and camels and sheep is right and moral.
Then, you add God commanding them to do this. So, its wrong for one to do and then its moral for God to have the others do worse?
@DraugarX This it the problem, you agree that the Israelites' could defend themselves, but you will not say how they could do this? A pre-emptive strike would be wrong to you I guess? How were the Israelites going to defend themselves if they could not kill people? Just explain this to me?
@DraugarX No God was not sending the Amalekites to prove a point.
God never commanded the Israelites to attack the nations he sent to attack them because of their behavior.
All people have free will and are able to act as they will. And all people are created by God. God Choose the Israelites, however if you actually took the time to read scripture, you will not see them Lording over others because of this. So Racism is not something that can be attributed to God.
@DraugarX You still have not told me how you know what God would and would not do. Care too?
God sent other nations to punish Israel because they were worshiping other gods, and they did not listen to the prophets he sent. Or we could also look at it like, God stop protecting his people from those around them who wished to hurt them.
You miss the point that God made us, and he can do as he wishes to us. He is under no obligation to even keep us in existence.
@DraugarX What do you believe free will is? Does it mean we get to have what we want to happen to us to be? Or does it mean we are free to choose our response to the events which happen to us.
If the second, then Free will has zero to do with the events that happen to you.
David was free to not steal Bethsheba and have her husband murdered. Adam and Eve were free to not eat the fruit. I'm not sure what you are talking about with teenage virgins, this was the age of marriage.
@DraugarX I notice you never answer my questions... I guess free will to you means we get what we want.
BTW I have no hate, I am not upset, mad, or have any hatred towards you. I am trying to help you understand scripture and answer your questions, if you don't want your questions answered, then tell me so I can go off to do other things. I am not afraid of anything in scripture, it can all be explained and understood. It requires seeing big picture.
@DraugarX Here is your answer to why kill children.
1 Sam 15:33And Samuel said, “As your sword has made women childless,
so shall your mother be childless among women.”
Then he cut Agag to pieces before the LORD in Gilgal.
They were killed because under the King's (Agag) orders the children of the Israelites where killed or taken into slavery. They were getting the same treatment that they gave the Israelites.
@DraugarX God told Jonah:4: 9 Then God said to Jonah, “Do you have good reason to be angry about the plant?” And he said, “I have good reason to be angry, even to death.” 10 Then the LORD said, “You had compassion on the plant for which you did not work, and which you did not cause to grow, which came up overnight and perished overnight.
@DraugarX cont 11 “And should I not have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know the difference between their right and left hand, as well as many animals?
@DraugarX I guess this says it all... you have decided that the bible is fake, and there is nothing I can say to prove you it is true. :-) You have your own version of God that does not match anything anyone else has, therefore you can set your own morals. Nice.
You are not looking for answers, just to divert and cause confusion.
Honest Christians don't ignore the parts of the bible you are saying are a problem, we take them very serious!
@DraugarX cont... Your view of God is very materialistic and rooted in this world. He is just this supreme being that created us and wants up to be nice to each other. He do not discipline, or judge, or teach. God is beyond anything you can conceive of! His ways are not our ways! Sometimes the things he does do not make sense to us (or they do much much later).
When you are truly ready to dialog and answer some hard questions let me know.
@DraugarX I want evidence of some authors writing messages that the events listed in the Gospels are fake, can you provide it? I provided two sources, one of solid historical validity, another of questionable authority. So far this is 2 to 0, want me to dig up some more?
@DraugarX BTW.. why does the event have to be global. Scripture does not say that it was global. Scripture seems to indicate that this event was limited to Jerusalem, and the surrounding area. Very few solar eclipse are Global! If any. Most just hit an area.
Are you suggesting that the ressurected dead after Jesus was crucified was a CLOSE PROXIMITY event? You needed to by buried within so mant feet of the cross for you to get up from the grave?
@DraugarX Sorry, we are talking scripture not the church. I suggest you look up the actual facts regardling Gallileo, it was not his science that we the problem, but what he asked the church and what happened why the refused him.
This seems to be to be a Ad Hominene attack by someone who is not able to provide any evidence.
@DraugarX Any luck finding a reference to debunk this?
Matt 28:11While they were going, some of the guard went into the city and told the chief priests all that had happened. 12They assembled with the elders and took counsel; then they gave a large sum of money to the soldiers, 13telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came by night and stole him while we were asleep.’ 14And if this gets to the ears of the governor, we will satisfy [him] and keep you out of trouble.”
The sky turnde black and the earth shook and the graves opend up and the dead got up and walked to town and hung out for a while and NOBODY..NOBODY ever mentioned it?
Did the dead in China get up from their graves and walk?
What about the dead in Greece?
What about the dead in Corinth?
How about the fact that the apostles didn't write about this stuff for 50 years after the dead got up from their graves and ONLY Matthew thought it worth mentioning?
@DraugarX These books were written before the witnesses to these events died, please provide one reference to deny these events. Consider what Josephus a jew wrote in about 70AD, Bk 18, ch 3 pg 3
3. Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man;
for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with
pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He
Vices can be classified according to the virtues they oppose, or also be linked to the capital sins which Christian experience has distinguished, following St. John Cassian and St. Gregory the Great. They are called "capital" because they engender other sins, other vices.138 They are pride, avarice, envy, wrath(ANGER), lust, gluttony, and sloth or acedia
lol, I guess God "engenders" other sins by having HIS people do this for him.
@DraugarX Why not also quote 1865: Sin creates a proclivity to sin; it engenders vice by repetition of the same acts. This results in perverse inclinations which cloud conscience and corrupt the concrete judgment of good and evil. Thus sin tends to reproduce itself and reinforce itself, but it cannot destroy the moral sense at its root.
Sin leads to more sin. This is a truth and is observable in our lifes today.
@DraugarX But your God let us do these things... What the bible says is very doubtful, contradictory to reality.. the bible saying that good people go to heaven and feel eternal happiness and those who go to hell with eternal pain, LIES! . i thought God made us our body to have senses, so truly we cant feel in either heaven or hell. And i thought God is son intelligent why did he make a mistake on testing adam and eve with the tree of knowledge? Religions are just ideas, not reality.
@rEsonansDx God did not make a mistake with Adam and Eve, God gave us free will. It is our misuse of free will that causes all the problems in the world.
God made us Body and Soul. And yes the Soul can feel, sometimes deeper then the body. Ever lost a loved one? This is the SOUL feeling pain, not the body.
That is all you have. You know for a fact that you base everything on the bible and you yourself say that the stories aren't "literal" meaning they didn't happen this way??
How can you base your life on a false story?
You will now say that the "WHATEVER" dosen't matter, the details aren't important, UNTIL you want to use the DETAILS as your proof.
@DraugarX I was asking because those in this video probably would not be aware of what you said before.
How do you know that God is everything right and Moral? This sounds kind of pantheistic... I hope you did not mean it this way.
Scientific and natural reason tell us that there must be a beginning to the universe. Science can tell us what happened, and the mechanics, but it can't tell us why or what caused it. BTW the bible is written to answer Why not necessarily what.
@DraugarX Natural reason tells me that there must be a first cause or first mover. Read Summa Theologica if you wish to understand this better. It is the best proof for the existence of God that I have found.
How do you know that there is a God?
Also how do you know that God is RIGHT (?) and Moral?
@DraugarX If the "First Cause" or "First Mover" has a cause, then it is not the first. God is his own reason for existence. God is the uncaused cause. God has always existed and always will exist. I do accept natural reason as a reason for the existence of God, I was just wondering what your reason might be.
Now natural reason can't tell us that God is Right and Moral.
@DraugarX This is simple logic. Everything has a cause, there must be a first cause, otherwise we have an infinite regression of causes, which does not really solve anything. Therefore there must be an uncaused cause. God is his own reason for existence, he needs no other. This is simple logic.
@kgxxx10 Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence; ... Every event must have a cause, and each cause must in turn have its own cause, and so forth. Hence, there must either be an infinite regress of causes or there must be a ...
@DraugarX Well I can honestly say that I did not copy and paste anything. However I am using what I have read from Aquinas and Augustine on this subject.
I quote you "There is evil in the world because God is not everything, the things that are evil..that is not God. God is GOOD, God is Good things,"
Either this is sort of pantheism, God in all good things, or you are saying that God created just the Good things and that something else created the evil things. Which is it?
@kgxxx10 Are you really that dumb that you need me to explain good and evil?
You are aware that ADAM and EVE ATE from the damn tree of ggod and evil and thus, we all have knowledge of good and evil..yet here you are asking for a definition or clarification of good and evil?
Did you evolve from a monkey?
Did God create the internet? The Dildo? The Slinky"
@DraugarX This is an important question... how do we define what is good and what is evil? Sorry you don't seem to like these tough questions... but they have to be answered. The bible gives us the answers to these questions, but you reject it. So we have to look elsewhere.
@DraugarX Evil is evil, it does not really matter what it is, stealing, rape, abortion etc. You are saying that evil came from Man, yet God created man, so did he create evil men? Or did something else create evil men?
Perhaps it is because your understanding of the relationship between good and evil is wrong that you can't answer this.
@DraugarX It is obvious you can't answer this... so try this.
Evil is the absence of Good, or a defect in Good, it has no existence of it's own. Evil is the result of us disobeying what God considers good. It is the result of our free will. So God did not create evil, yet he allows it so that we will have free will.
@DraugarX God did not create evil, it is a consequence of his allowing us to have free will.
You are the one that seems to believe that evil is a thing that has an existence of it's own. You can't create something that does not exist of it's own.
Now since you believe God is in all Good things, and that evil comes from men, how did this evil get there? Why is there evil? Would not a good God create everything good?
@DraugarX God did not create evil... however he allows it due to our free will.
You are not answering my questions, yet I am answering yours (even though you don't like the answers).
You say God is in all Good things, and Evil comes from man, yet you don't say how this evil got there? At least I give an explanation of how it gets there.
@DraugarX Because you seems to be pointing to that fact that it is something created. And not a defect in something. If it is a defect in something, then it has no existence of it's own, hence is not created at all. Now you say that Evil is created by man, yet God made man, did God make man evil or good?
@DraugarX wow no wonder ur so stupid. did u know that ur fits of anger are the result of ur not being able to listen. listen to his point then urs. dont favor one because u started with it first. the bible when read explains that satan who was created by god ALLOWED evil to fester in his heart then it was born into a sin which passed on to man from his persuasive ways. from man entered sin and then passed on to all mankind allowing us to consider the works of the flesh and other evil
@dangerman808 Please be nice. I'm trying to avoid using the bible, since he rejects it. What I am trying to do is understand his way of thinking and what he believes, this is hard because he is so evasive. I am being to wonder if he really knows what he believes or is just unable to explain it.
@DraugarX we have evil because we make no effort to resist or become blameless. the bible also says that man was made from dust and then from sin u die u return to dust. r u that stupid god isnt a human so he isnt actually he. u r so stupid to not take in consideration of figurative language. men r dominant calling humans mankind not mankind and womankind and hence putting the term ''he'' aline with describing god. god is a spirit and not a human if ur too dumb to know. stay in school.
@DraugarX we have evil because we make no effort to resist or become blameless. the bible also says that man was made from dust and then from sin u die u return to dust. r u that stupid god isnt a human so he isnt actually he. u r so stupid to not take in consideration of figurative language. men r dominant calling humans mankind not mankind and womankind and hence putting the term ''he'' aline with describing god. god is a spirit and not a human if ur too dumb to know. stay in school.
@DraugarX we have evil because we make no effort to resist or become blameless. the bible also says that man was made from dust and then from sin u die u return to dust. r u that stupid god isnt a human so he isnt actually he. u r so stupid to not take in consideration of figurative language. men r dominant calling humans mankind not mankind and womankind and hence putting the term ''he'' aline with describing god. god is a spirit and not a human if ur too dumb to know. stay in school.
@DraugarX we have evil because we make no effort to resist or become blameless. the bible also says that man was made from dust and then from sin u die u return to dust. r u that stupid god isnt a human so he isnt actually he. u r so stupid to not take in consideration of figurative language. men r dominant calling humans mankind not mankind and womankind and hence putting the term ''he'' aline with describing god. god is a spirit and not a human if ur too dumb to know. stay in school.
@DraugarX God created everything, man is a thing, therefore God created man. That is pretty simple.
I do not know the process God used to create man since I was not there. :-)
Actually God is not a HE, however this is how we refer to things which display human like characteristics. Note you have not proven to me that God has an intellect. We can only determine via natural reason that God has some sort of order. Please correct me if I am wrong.
@DraugarX By HE I mean in the sense of Male/Female, God has no gender. Gender is a function for reproduction, God does not reproduce, therefore he has no gender. However in English IT generally means something impersonal, or an object, where HE/SHE is used to denote persons. God is a person.
The Bible also uses the same personification. It is not wrong, it is just a limitation of human language.
@DraugarX You are totally confused about this. You are still trying to prove the bible wrong without even attempting to understand it.
1) Jesus the Son was not born of a sexual act between God and Mary, this is not even biblical! God caused Mary to become pregnant. I can postulate some ideas, but when you can create the universe out of nothing, this is not really that difficult to do :-).
@DraugarX 2) Yes man is created in the image and likeness of God. However since God is a spirit, and man is a physical being, this means that it can't be the literal image. The image, is that man has the ability to reason, think, love, and has a will.
3) Because the proper way to refer to God is via the male gender, this is just how language works, get over it. We can't change it.
4) All three are referred to as male. Note Christ is a Male!
Why do women need to keep quiet in matters of the church and faith?
Why didn't God ever reveal ITSELF as a woman?
If all of this is merely Language and we all know better now, why continus to teach children that God is a HE and God is a Male and God is a FATHER..if you say it isn't true?
@DraugarX Woman are not less than Men, where is this coming from? More distractions? Man and woman are different (unless you have lived in total isolation you will know this). Both serve different roles, neither is better or less then the other.
Because God has revealed himself as Father, again take it up with him.
@DraugarX I'm saying that some things in the bible are not meant to be take word for word literally! This does not make them untrue. There are many styles of writing in the bible.
lol, some people?
DraugarX 3 weeks ago
Phlegon to Thallus: Jesus Christ, according to the prophecies which had been foretold about him beforehand, came to his passion in the eighteenth year of Tiberius, at which time also we find these things written verbatim in other commentaries of the gentiles, that an eclipse of the sun happened, Bithynia was shaken by earthquake, and in the city of Nicaea many buildings collapsed, all of which agree with what occurred in the passion of the savior.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
cont Indeed Phlegon, who is an excellent calculator of Olympiads, also writes about these things, writing thus in his thirteenth book: In the fourth year, however, of Olympiad 202,* an eclipse of the sun happened, greater and more excellent than any that had happened before it; at the sixth hour, day turned into dark night, so that the stars were seen in the sky, and an earthquake in Bithynia toppled many buildings of the city of Nicaea.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
These things [are according to] the aforementioned man.
* Id est, year 32/33.
Guess we can't say nobody reported this.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 lol, are you speaking of Phlegon of Thallus..the guy bor in 80 AD??
Thats hilarious..I think some of the books of the bible were written after this..they didn't mention it and thhey were writing about it.
lol, besides, this writing, if it ever existed, DOSEN'T EXIST TODAY!
What you are quoting is Julius Africanus saying he was quoting from this Hearsay tale that he wasn't even born to witness.
We know Julius Africanus was a Catholic Bible Prover..and a LIAR!
Look it up
DraugarX 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 What you have here is the Roman Catholic Church trying to PROVE the BS bible by having one of their priests make up a lie about what a Historian wrote..THAT THEY CAN'T PRODUCE??
Thats right, the ONLY proof you could find is a FORGERY and everyone knows it.
That dosen't stop you from using it, lol.
Here is a little SCIENCE
You CAN'T have a Solar Eclipse during a FULL MOON..
Looks like SOMEBODY IS LYING
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX It is extra biblical evidence. Also we have Josephus, I am still waiting for the information showing the Gospels are wrong.
God can have a Solar Eclipse during a FULL MOON. This is very easy for him.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 lol, you cant have a solar eclipse during a full moon..IMPOSSIBLE!
You have FORGERIES perpetrted by the Roman Catholic Church..as I just PROVED.
This "Historical Document" DOSENT EXIST..IT NEVER DID
The dumb Church that refuted SCIENCE used LIES that we now know are ridiculous. BTW, EVERYONE..all scholars KNOW that Josepheus was a Forgery. This "great man" gave Jesus 3 sentences??
God, who was crucified and the graves opened up and the dead walked..NO MENTION.
Jesus 3lines
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX So you are saying that God could not do this? Interesting. Your God has limitations.
BTW you can thank the Church for the Scientific method, genetics, and many other advances in science. The church is very pro science.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 Dr Jordan Stein.."...the vast majority of scholars since the early 1800s have said that this quotation is not by Josephus, but rather is a later Christian insertion in his works. In other words, it is a forgery, rejected by scholars."
Charles Guignebert..a pure Christian forgery
Lardner, Harnack and Schurer, along with others, declared it entirely spurious.
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX Nice try. Eucibus recognized it in 320AD, therefore it must have been a really early insert. Just because others don't quote it does not make it a forgery. He also mentions the census, John the Baptist, and other events chronicled in the Gospels. I can understand why you would want it to be a forgery. Even if it is I am still 2 references over your zero!
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 lol, Esubius is the one that PUT IT IN THERE.
Origen quoted Josepheus way before Esubius and he makes NO MENTION OF IT??
You are so blinded by the Roman Catholic Church and its LIES.
Nobody even mentions Josepheus because this is so well known..nobody but YOU, lol.
Nobody quoted this till ESEUBIUS FORGEDED IT.
You don't have ANY references..all you have is LIES and FAKES and FORGERIES
AND YOU KNOW IT, as does everyone else.
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX Yeah I read this, I would suggest that you actually read these text. Origen mentions that Josephus talks about John the Baptist, he also talks about him talking about James the brother of Jesus. While he does not quote him directly it seems pretty clear that the text is original. Note Josephus rejected Jesus as the Christ, and the text indicates that he did not believe him to be the Christ, rather just a good person.
kgxxx10 4 weeks ago
@DraugarX Origen on Matthew 10.17 [A] But James is this one whom Paul says that he saw in the epistle to the Galatians, saying: But I did not see any of the other apostles except James the brother of the Lord. [B1] And in such a way among the people did this James shine for his justice [C] that Flavius Josephus, who wrote the Judaic Antiquities in twenty books, [D] wishing to demonstrate the cause why the people suffered such great things that even the temple was razed down, ...
kgxxx10 4 weeks ago
@DraugarX cont [E1] said that these things came to pass against them in accordance with the ire of God on account of the things which were dared by them against James the brother of Jesus who is called Christ. [F] And the wondrous thing is that, although he did not accept our Jesus to be Christ, [B2] he yet testified that the justice of James was not at all small; [E2] and he says that even the people supposed they had suffered these things on account of James.
kgxxx10 4 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 So, basically, your only proof is a FORGERY that everyone has know about for hundreds of years. You can keep saying that you have 2 sources outside the bible when you have FORGERIES..PROVEN FORGERIES.
Now, knowing that this is a forgery..WHY do you think the RCC needed to produce one back in 400 AD? During the time the Roman Emperor made this the NEW UNIVERSAL Religion!
ONLY the bible tells these TALES and the RCC had to FORGE history books because NOBODY mentioned these stories.
DraugarX 4 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 lol, you are so simple..this is Origen TALKING ABOUT THE BIBLE..what is in the BIBLE
"Although he didn't accept OUR Jesus to be the Christ" Origen is a CATHOLIC PRIEST..lol
Summary: You say Josepheus proves Jesus..I prove to you its a fake
You prove Josephus..existed? SO WHAT, he never wrote about Jesus making your crap FALSE
You go on to use a CATHOLIC PRIEST words ABOUT the bible as proof that Josepheus mentiones James The Just (WHICH IS NOT JAMES) and everyone knows it!
DraugarX 4 weeks ago
@DraugarX I'm still waiting for your documents proving that these events listed in the Gospels did not occur.
This is probably what Josephus originally wrote:
“About this time arose Jesus, a wise man. He drew to himself many; and
when Pilate, on the indictment of the principal men among us, had
condemned him to the cross, those who had loved him at the first did not
cease to do so, and even to this day the race of Christians, who are
named from him, has not died out.”
kgxxx10 4 weeks ago
@DraugarX Even if this is what he wrote, it goes a long way to proving the authenticity of the Gospels. This part of the text is not really disputed. Also I would not expect Josephus to accept Jesus as the Christ.
kgxxx10 4 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 lol, You are TRYING to PROVE that the "sky turned black and the earth shook and the graves opened up and the DAMN DEAD got up and walked to town and hung out with their friends
Now, all you have done is find some BS verses from a FORGED HISTORY that says some guy named Jesus was crucified? Hey, they let a guy name JESUS go free!
I am sure JESUS was a common name..besides Jesus WASNT his name untill the 16th century. LOLOLOL
DraugarX 4 weeks ago
@DraugarX Well I am still waiting for you to provide rejections of the Gospels, all you can do is claim that the extra biblical references that I gave were forged. There is other evidence that you can look up. I also notice that you never give any references to your quotes. So provide proof that the Gospels were questioned by the writers of that time. Note even the Talmud takes about Jesus. Suprised the Jews would be so adimt to get rid of someone fictisous.
kgxxx10 4 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 How can I prove that something didn't happen?
Find me in a history book where Sckilotabld Phase IV never happened.
You are ridiculous. Find me evidence that there a wussophalocrete never existed. I mean written evidence rejecting this creature.
You changed the subject because you failed at proving that the graves opened and the dead got up..like it says in the bible.
Hard to believe that NOBODY in the WORLD wrote about this event.
Its because it never happened.
DraugarX 4 weeks ago
@DraugarX Well these books were widely circulated, They talked about real events with real people. So if they are a fake, then people must not have been able to find any witnesses, or remembered things differently, they surely would have wrote something commenting on the lack of facts in these books.
We have many early christain writers commenting on many of the non-cannonical books, and other sects. Why is there no literature denying the events in the Gospel?
kgxxx10 4 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 Esubius wrote theses few sentences in 400 AD.
Someone would need to be 350 years old plus to be a "WITNESS".
Just give it up. Apparantly you have an ability to research..research what you find before you believe it. Look at both sides, then you will know that these FORGERIES are just that.
Look, I am not saying there isn't a God, I'm just saying that the God in the bible is NOT HIM. The stories about Jesus are NOT REAL.
The stories of God slaughtering millions ARE NOT REAL.
DraugarX 4 weeks ago
@DraugarX We do not know for a fact the Eucibus wrote these sentences. However not all of the text is a forgery, much of it is in the original. Origen also seems to indicate that Josephus talked about the events in the Gospels, yet he did not believe that Christ was the Messiah. Note there were a lot of those claiming to be the Messiah around that time. Most tried to start a rebelion and were taken care of by the Romans.
kgxxx10 4 weeks ago
@DraugarX I'm also still waiting for to tell me how you know what you know about God. The closet I have gotten is this is what I believe. This proves nothing since your believes could be wrong.
kgxxx10 4 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 So could yours be wrong.
DraugarX 4 weeks ago
@DraugarX I guess. However mine is based on reason and the scriptures. Yours seems to be based only on feelings.
kgxxx10 4 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 lol, Yours is based on a book that is clearly a LIE and full of contradictions.
Not only does the bible contradict itself, it contradicts the very thing that you claim it says.
You claim a JUST and Loving God..He is just the opposite.
You claim Jesus is God..he claims different.
You claim Free Will and you claim Gods Plan?
None of it adds up, it is clearly superstition, fear, imagination and greed that fuels this beast.
DraugarX 4 weeks ago
@DraugarX You missunderstand what it means to love, you have a romantic view of love, not a biblical view of love. To Love is to will the good of another without expecting anything in return. Sometimes this means making some tough choices (ever hear of intervention, or tough love). The God of the bible is also Just, this means that he holds us responsable for our actions.
In terms of free will vs God's plan, God works within our freewill to achieve what he wants, this is a mystery.
kgxxx10 4 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 There isn't a MYSTERY. This is just a way of saying I DON'T KNOW.
I completely understand what it means to love. You can't, and you refuse to even try, wrap your head around a God that DESTROYS.
He destroys life and liberty and freedom and you have to dispense with any common sense and thought to "BELIEVE" in him.
That is why all the emphasis on FAITH. Faith is believing when everything you know tells you otherwise.
DraugarX 4 weeks ago
@DraugarX I Sam 2 [6] The Lord killeth and maketh alive, he bringeth down to hell and bringeth back again. [7] The Lord maketh poor and maketh rich, he humbleth and he exalteth. [8] He raiseth up the needy from the dust, and lifteth up the poor from the dunghill: that he may sit with princes, and hold the throne of glory. For the poles of the earth are the Lord's, and upon them he hath set the world.
kgxxx10 4 weeks ago
@DraugarX [9] He will keep the feet of his saints, and the wicked shall be silent in darkness, because no man shall prevail by his own strength.
If God gave you life he has the right to take it when he deems it is time. Even you would have to agree. Your life comes from God either directly or indirectly (depending on your point of view). Either way it is ultimatly his to give or take.
kgxxx10 4 weeks ago
@DraugarX I use the word Mystery, becuase our feeble human mind can understand how God works or decides things. Is 55:9. For as the heavens are exalted above the earth, so are my ways exalted above your ways, and my thoughts above your thoughts.
To have a God who is fully comprehensable is to have a finite limited God who just happens to be more powerfull then we are. This is a human invention. It is also very vain to believe we can understand God when we can't even understand outselves!
kgxxx10 4 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 You ask, "Why is there no literature denying the events in the Gospel?"
1st, the RCC, your church, murdered everyone saying different and they not only burned them, they burned all the literature that opposed their ROAD TO RICHES!
There is a lot of literature TODAY about this being false and fake. There is Islam, Shinto, Hindu, Zeus, Odin, Myan, Aztec, Osiris, Amen Ra, Mithra, and the list goes on and on and on.
Don't even think thee isnt literature that denys the bible
DraugarX 4 weeks ago
@DraugarX I highly dought this... We have the gnostic gospels, and many other books that were condemed, are still available. Also until 400-500 AD the Church lacked the resources to carry about a wide spead removal of documents.
I know that there is literature that denies the Bible, I am looking for literature written around 40-100 AD that debunks the Gospels.
kgxxx10 4 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 They are only available because they were recently discovered.
Nag Hamdi-Dead Sea Scrolls
If the RCC had found them, they would have burned them with the owners.
You refuse to believe this, too.
You deny everything that goes against your belief. You only accept the things that confirm your belief.
This is SUSPECT BIAS
You discard, without even looking, at any evidence that points in a direction that you aren't aiming at. Then you say ALL the evidence points to this..
DraugarX 4 weeks ago
@DraugarX Why would they burn and destroy them. They are the OT, and the help us to see that the OT we have today is virtualy identical to the OT they used back then. If anything this shows that something is protecting these documents from error.
As to refusng to wrap my mind around a God who destroys, I have, I can see reasons why he did things the way he did in the OT, I don't nessisarly like them, but I do not ignore them. There is a lot of very hard things in scripture!
kgxxx10 4 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 lets hear you speak about ONE of these "hard things" in scriptuyre.
Are you PROUD of your God?
Will you stand up and TESTIFY of ALL that He has done?
or will you keep this quiet and try to never speak of it..because it goes against everything that is JUST and RIGHT and MORAL.
In fact, it goes against everything God would do.
Why aren't you PREACHING that God did these things? You have yet to say YES, My God killed women and children and took young virgins as sex slaves
WHY? SHAME?
DraugarX 3 weeks ago
@DraugarX After you explain to me how you know that God is Good, not just because this is what you feel. I want to know facts. Also I want you to explain to be what God would consider good.
I also would like to know why God would not allow us to defend ourselves against unjust attacks?
I would also like to know how you know what is morally right... by what criteria do you come to these believes.
kgxxx10 3 weeks ago
DraugarX 3 weeks ago
@DraugarX Ok... I asked you before if it is right morally right to defend ourselves, I did not specify how this was to be done. I suggested killing the Adult males who were the ones attacking the Jews, but you said this was also not morally right. So what is the morally right way to defend ourselves against an attacker?
Also please tell me how you know that God is Good, and what this means, and how you know this?
kgxxx10 3 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 Morally Right? No, you didn't ask if it was "morally right" for US to defend ourselves. Sure, we should always defend ourselves.
How is God killing Davids baby..US defending ourselves"?
How is God sending plagues and floods..US defending ourselves"?
How is God saying to slaughter the women and children and animals and saying to take the Adolescent Girl Virgins as sex slaves..US defending ourselves.
You are twisting Gods commands to try and justify them.
Understand?
DraugarX 3 weeks ago
@DraugarX I'm trying to help you understand this. Work with me.
Ok... we both agree that it is morally right to defend ourselves against unjust attacks.
Now the Amalekites were attacking the Israelites without cause, raiding and killing people, selling them off to slavery, etc. So what would be a good method for the Israelites to use to defend themselves against these people? This had been going on since they left Egypt, so this need to be sometime more then border patrols. How?
kgxxx10 3 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 I am not talking about what Amalekites or Israelites did..I am talking about what God did.
How can you say them "raiding and killing people, selling them off to slavery, etc. and act as though this is wrong and in the same breath say that killing the men, women and children and their donkeys and camels and sheep is right and moral.
Then, you add God commanding them to do this. So, its wrong for one to do and then its moral for God to have the others do worse?
YOU need help.
DraugarX 3 weeks ago
@DraugarX This it the problem, you agree that the Israelites' could defend themselves, but you will not say how they could do this? A pre-emptive strike would be wrong to you I guess? How were the Israelites going to defend themselves if they could not kill people? Just explain this to me?
kgxxx10 3 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 we are talking about Gods Commands..lol.
Are you trying to say they did this on their own?
That God didn't tell them to do this?
Are you going AGAINST the bible?
Did God murder Davids baby?
Was that self defense?
If my God said to murder women and babies..I would say YES, God Commanded their Murder and the taking of their teenage daughters for sex.
Did your God do this? Why don't you proclaim it?
DraugarX 3 weeks ago
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kgxxx10 3 weeks ago
@DraugarX One thing at a time.
So was God wrong to command the Israelites to attack the Amalekites since they had been raiding the Israelites since they left Egypt?
Or should he have told them to just put up with it?
Perhaps it would have been better if he had just wiped them out?
How would your God solve this problem?
kgxxx10 3 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 YES! YES! YES! how many times are you going to ask this same question?
Why did God allow it if later He is going to take care of it?
You make no sense. Why didn't he wave his hand a wipe them out?
Why didn't he make them all get sick and die?
Why didn't he make them all good?
You are a fool.
DraugarX 3 weeks ago
@DraugarX Could it be that God works with humans to get what he needs doing accomplished ?
Perhaps God had been sending the Amalekites prophets and other things to make them come around, but they where not listening.
So God ordered the Israelites to defend themselves and remove the problem.
God in the OT uses other nations to punish Israel, why should he not use Israel to punish other nations?
kgxxx10 3 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 Perhaps God had been sending the Amalekites to attack the Israelites so he could use them to PROVE A POINT?
Do you see how you contradict yourself every chance you get.
Maybe God was testing the Israelites by sending the Amalekites to attack them..maybe that was their punishment?
Do you see how you are a RACIST?
How you consider the Amalekites as not even being Gods children..Gods Creation
Do they have souls? Do they have free will?
Are they non people..tools? Gods people?
DraugarX 3 weeks ago
@DraugarX No God was not sending the Amalekites to prove a point.
God never commanded the Israelites to attack the nations he sent to attack them because of their behavior.
All people have free will and are able to act as they will. And all people are created by God. God Choose the Israelites, however if you actually took the time to read scripture, you will not see them Lording over others because of this. So Racism is not something that can be attributed to God.
kgxxx10 3 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 God is like a LUNATIC sending people to attack "HIS" people and then sending them to attack "NOT HIS PEOPLE"??
Whos people are they? Who created them?
Is this some kind of a game for a lunatic madman..lets test and tempt them and see who stays faithful?
No thanks, that isn't God.
We all have free will? Those that are CHOSEN?
Gods CHOSEN PEOPLE? I came ONLY for the lost sheep.
God rewards Job with the slaughter of everybody he loves and all he has?
Did Jobs wife have "free will"?
DraugarX 3 weeks ago
@DraugarX You still have not told me how you know what God would and would not do. Care too?
God sent other nations to punish Israel because they were worshiping other gods, and they did not listen to the prophets he sent. Or we could also look at it like, God stop protecting his people from those around them who wished to hurt them.
You miss the point that God made us, and he can do as he wishes to us. He is under no obligation to even keep us in existence.
kgxxx10 3 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 Explain Jobs wifes free will.
Explain Jods sons free will.
Explain Davids baby's free will.
Explain Davids WIVES free will.
Explain Adam and Eves free will.
Explain the teenage virgins free will.
Until then, you don't have anything to say worth listening to.
Until you can admit that God did these things..you have nothing worth hearing.
DraugarX 3 weeks ago
@DraugarX What do you believe free will is? Does it mean we get to have what we want to happen to us to be? Or does it mean we are free to choose our response to the events which happen to us.
If the second, then Free will has zero to do with the events that happen to you.
David was free to not steal Bethsheba and have her husband murdered. Adam and Eve were free to not eat the fruit. I'm not sure what you are talking about with teenage virgins, this was the age of marriage.
kgxxx10 3 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 OMG, you are really something.
You are free to move on..go back to your little group of hater friends and pick on some witnesses, lol.
BTW, looked in earlier today..thats an exciting "Dialog" you idiots have going there.
Nice job of staying on the subject of the video, lol.
Kind of boring without me..kind of DEAD!
You are such a phony and you still haven't addressed any of the QUOTES from the bible..not one in over a week.
SO SAD..lol
DraugarX 3 weeks ago
@DraugarX I notice you never answer my questions... I guess free will to you means we get what we want.
BTW I have no hate, I am not upset, mad, or have any hatred towards you. I am trying to help you understand scripture and answer your questions, if you don't want your questions answered, then tell me so I can go off to do other things. I am not afraid of anything in scripture, it can all be explained and understood. It requires seeing big picture.
kgxxx10 3 weeks ago
@DraugarX Here is your answer to why kill children.
1 Sam 15:33And Samuel said, “As your sword has made women childless,
so shall your mother be childless among women.”
Then he cut Agag to pieces before the LORD in Gilgal.
They were killed because under the King's (Agag) orders the children of the Israelites where killed or taken into slavery. They were getting the same treatment that they gave the Israelites.
kgxxx10 3 weeks ago
@DraugarX God told Jonah:4: 9 Then God said to Jonah, “Do you have good reason to be angry about the plant?” And he said, “I have good reason to be angry, even to death.” 10 Then the LORD said, “You had compassion on the plant for which you did not work, and which you did not cause to grow, which came up overnight and perished overnight.
kgxxx10 3 weeks ago
@DraugarX cont 11 “And should I not have compassion on Nineveh, the great city in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know the difference between their right and left hand, as well as many animals?
kgxxx10 3 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 lol, I don't want my questions answered..I have told you..go away and do different things.
You haven't answered a single question, all you have done is divert the attention away from the evil things your God has done.
You haven't ever answered..Please, GO AWAY AND DO DIFFERENT THINGS!
Don't act like this was your idea, scroll down, you will see where I tiold you to just go away.
You are such a liar and a twister.
I have no use for you.
DraugarX 3 weeks ago
@DraugarX I guess this says it all... you have decided that the bible is fake, and there is nothing I can say to prove you it is true. :-) You have your own version of God that does not match anything anyone else has, therefore you can set your own morals. Nice.
You are not looking for answers, just to divert and cause confusion.
Honest Christians don't ignore the parts of the bible you are saying are a problem, we take them very serious!
kgxxx10 3 weeks ago
@DraugarX cont... Your view of God is very materialistic and rooted in this world. He is just this supreme being that created us and wants up to be nice to each other. He do not discipline, or judge, or teach. God is beyond anything you can conceive of! His ways are not our ways! Sometimes the things he does do not make sense to us (or they do much much later).
When you are truly ready to dialog and answer some hard questions let me know.
kgxxx10 3 weeks ago
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kgxxx10 4 weeks ago
@kgxxx10 lol, it is not "extra biblical" evidence..Not even close
IT DOSEN'T EXIST.
IT NEVER DID
Its some Catholic Bible guy SAYING he read it but he dosen't have it anymore?? LOL
Can you find any GLOBAL evidence of a "Solar Eclipse" during a full moon from anywhere OTHER than the Roman Catholics??
NO, YOU CAN'T
That alone should make you suspicious.
Your ONLY evidence is from the MURDEROUS TORTURING CATHOLIC CHURCH
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX I want evidence of some authors writing messages that the events listed in the Gospels are fake, can you provide it? I provided two sources, one of solid historical validity, another of questionable authority. So far this is 2 to 0, want me to dig up some more?
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 Which one is "solid historical validity"??
Certainly not Phlegon or Josepheus.
Here is the thing, ALL of your sources come from Catholics..ALL OF THEM.
They come from the ones who have PROFITTED THE MOST
Do you want historical quotes from your Popes about their Heresy?
All you have is Catholic Plants and Forgeries
These same Catholics burned any and every document that went against them, plus, they BURNED anyone that spoke of it. BURNED THEM ALIVE
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX BTW.. why does the event have to be global. Scripture does not say that it was global. Scripture seems to indicate that this event was limited to Jerusalem, and the surrounding area. Very few solar eclipse are Global! If any. Most just hit an area.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 YOUR BS source says GLOBAL, lol.
Don't you read the things you GOOGLE?
Are you suggesting that the ressurected dead after Jesus was crucified was a CLOSE PROXIMITY event? You needed to by buried within so mant feet of the cross for you to get up from the grave?
GRASPING AT STRAWS...are we?
DraugarX 1 month ago
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@DraugarX No, just stating that it does not specify a global event. And it does not say that those resurrect where seen by all, byt many.
I'm waiting for you to provide contrary proof.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 As far as your LIE about Science..look what they did to Gallileo!
I am sure you have the Catholic version of this history, or should I say the BS version.
Catholic = BS
lol, NO, don't dig up more if it takes you 2 days and they are knowm lies, whats the point in that.
YOU FAILED, but its understandable. Only LIES can prove a LIE.
DraugarX 1 month ago
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@DraugarX Sorry, we are talking scripture not the church. I suggest you look up the actual facts regardling Gallileo, it was not his science that we the problem, but what he asked the church and what happened why the refused him.
This seems to be to be a Ad Hominene attack by someone who is not able to provide any evidence.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
The Amazing story of the moment "God" died!
If that happened today, would anyone ever stop talking about it?
Hey, look, its grandma, shes been dead 30 years and here she is?
Look who is with her...nope, nobody ever wrote anything about this incredible event
NOBODY!
I am talking NOBODY in any city or country in the entire world wrote about the dead getting out of their graves and walking around.
I wonder how this happened?
I wonder
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX Any luck finding a reference to debunk this?
Matt 28:11While they were going, some of the guard went into the city and told the chief priests all that had happened. 12They assembled with the elders and took counsel; then they gave a large sum of money to the soldiers, 13telling them, “You are to say, ‘His disciples came by night and stole him while we were asleep.’ 14And if this gets to the ears of the governor, we will satisfy [him] and keep you out of trouble.”
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@DraugarX 15The soldiers took the money and did as they were instructed. And this story has circulated among the Jews to the present [day].
this tells us perhaps a reason none of this was reported.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
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The sky turnde black and the earth shook and the graves opend up and the dead got up and walked to town and hung out for a while and NOBODY..NOBODY ever mentioned it?
Did the dead in China get up from their graves and walk?
What about the dead in Greece?
What about the dead in Corinth?
How about the fact that the apostles didn't write about this stuff for 50 years after the dead got up from their graves and ONLY Matthew thought it worth mentioning?
NOW THAT IS A MIRACLE!
DraugarX 1 month ago
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@DraugarX These books were written before the witnesses to these events died, please provide one reference to deny these events. Consider what Josephus a jew wrote in about 70AD, Bk 18, ch 3 pg 3
3. Now there was about this time Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man;
for he was a doer of wonderful works, a teacher of such men as receive the truth with
pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews and many of the Gentiles. He
was [the] Christ. ...
kgxxx10 1 month ago
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@DraugarX ... And when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us,
had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him;
for he appeared to them alive again the third day; as the divine prophets had foretold
these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him. And the tribe of
Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
Catechism of the (ROMAN) Catholic Church 1866
Vices can be classified according to the virtues they oppose, or also be linked to the capital sins which Christian experience has distinguished, following St. John Cassian and St. Gregory the Great. They are called "capital" because they engender other sins, other vices.138 They are pride, avarice, envy, wrath(ANGER), lust, gluttony, and sloth or acedia
lol, I guess God "engenders" other sins by having HIS people do this for him.
DraugarX 1 month ago
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@DraugarX Why not also quote 1865: Sin creates a proclivity to sin; it engenders vice by repetition of the same acts. This results in perverse inclinations which cloud conscience and corrupt the concrete judgment of good and evil. Thus sin tends to reproduce itself and reinforce itself, but it cannot destroy the moral sense at its root.
Sin leads to more sin. This is a truth and is observable in our lifes today.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
All GOOD things come from God
Bad things are not from God
Murder is BAD
Slaughtering women and children and animals is BAD
God dosen't do these things
Understand?
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX But your God let us do these things... What the bible says is very doubtful, contradictory to reality.. the bible saying that good people go to heaven and feel eternal happiness and those who go to hell with eternal pain, LIES! . i thought God made us our body to have senses, so truly we cant feel in either heaven or hell. And i thought God is son intelligent why did he make a mistake on testing adam and eve with the tree of knowledge? Religions are just ideas, not reality.
rEsonansDx 1 month ago
@rEsonansDx You are exactally right.
The bible is a complete fabrication by men who used God to justify themselves.
These "christians" hijacked the bible with the New Testament Fabrication to make it about them.
It is a book of pure Hatred and Racism that shows God killing His sons to benefit His other sons?
DraugarX 1 month ago
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@rEsonansDx God did not make a mistake with Adam and Eve, God gave us free will. It is our misuse of free will that causes all the problems in the world.
God made us Body and Soul. And yes the Soul can feel, sometimes deeper then the body. Ever lost a loved one? This is the SOUL feeling pain, not the body.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
you dont even know YOUR bible
Its all BS but at least I know it what it says and what it dosen't.
DraugarX 1 month ago
All you can say is that IT JUST IS!
That is all you have. You know for a fact that you base everything on the bible and you yourself say that the stories aren't "literal" meaning they didn't happen this way??
How can you base your life on a false story?
You will now say that the "WHATEVER" dosen't matter, the details aren't important, UNTIL you want to use the DETAILS as your proof.
ANOTHER CONTRADICTION!
DraugarX 1 month ago
The bible is full of contradictions. If one statement contradicts another, obviously one of the two is false.
If the bible is "The Word of God" and God is Perfect, how can His words be False?
How can a just God Murder Innocent people?
Why does God need AN ARMY of ANGELS if He can strike you down with less than a thought?
Why does God order His people to do His dirty work?
The bible is full of lies by evil men who wrote that God commanded them to excuse their horrible acts.
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX I guess this is the video... now can you tell me what you believe about God and how you know this?
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 I have told you..it hasn't changed.
What exactally do you want me to say?
His Name? His shoe size?
All of these things you base on YOUR God as being a "REVEALED" God.
The God revealed in your bible is a sinister cruel maniacal tyrant!
He kills and insues Racism and Hatred and condones blood sacrifices and slavery and rape and slaughter of entire races..BUT HE LOVES US?
When you do, if you ever do, what is right for all mankind, then and only then are you doing Gods Will.
DraugarX 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 God is everything that is RIGHT and Moral. EVERYTHING!
As you said, there is a creator..and you know this by what? The Bible?
Is the bible the proof that God made us and everything? Intelligent design?
This just didn't happen by chance?
Do you know this because of the bible?
Are you using reason and common sense and intelligence to KNOW this or FEEL this or BELIEVE this?
Have you any proof?
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX I was asking because those in this video probably would not be aware of what you said before.
How do you know that God is everything right and Moral? This sounds kind of pantheistic... I hope you did not mean it this way.
Scientific and natural reason tell us that there must be a beginning to the universe. Science can tell us what happened, and the mechanics, but it can't tell us why or what caused it. BTW the bible is written to answer Why not necessarily what.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 Do you believe there is a God?
If you do, How do you KNOW there is a God?
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX I asked you. Do you believe in God?
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 Yes!
I ask you How do you know there is a God?
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX Natural reason tells me that there must be a first cause or first mover. Read Summa Theologica if you wish to understand this better. It is the best proof for the existence of God that I have found.
How do you know that there is a God?
Also how do you know that God is RIGHT (?) and Moral?
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 The same natural reason as I keep telling you.
You wont accept this as a reason from me but you proudly post it as you reason? I don't understand that.
What was this "FIRST CAUSE" that God came from?
Natural reason tells you there must be a First Cause for God, dosen't it?
DraugarX 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 You explained whybthe universe must have been created by God..
What created God, does this "First Cause" or "First Move" apply to God?
How did God come into existence?
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX If the "First Cause" or "First Mover" has a cause, then it is not the first. God is his own reason for existence. God is the uncaused cause. God has always existed and always will exist. I do accept natural reason as a reason for the existence of God, I was just wondering what your reason might be.
Now natural reason can't tell us that God is Right and Moral.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 You reason for Natural Reason requires a FIRST CAUSE..you just said so.
Then you said that God dosen't have a First Cause and you believe that because of Natural Reason??
My point every time with you. You contradict everything you say. JUST LIKE YOUR BIBLE!
Why don't you say, JUST BECAUSE!
Thats all you need to say..JUST BECAUSE!
rofl
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX This is simple logic. Everything has a cause, there must be a first cause, otherwise we have an infinite regression of causes, which does not really solve anything. Therefore there must be an uncaused cause. God is his own reason for existence, he needs no other. This is simple logic.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 lol
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX Well give me your reason you believe in God?
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 Everything that has a beginning of its existence has a cause of its existence; ... Every event must have a cause, and each cause must in turn have its own cause, and so forth. Hence, there must either be an infinite regress of causes or there must be a ...
NICE COPY AND PASTE..what a phony!
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX Why don't you believe this? BTW this is not a copy and paste.
So you believe in an infinite regression of causes?
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 I just copied and pasted "YOUR" post word for word from wikipedia..and you say this is NOT a copy and paste?
Everything you said is on the web..word for word
Google is awesome for puppets and plagers, lol.
Its easy to tell the thing you think of, they contradict everything you said before.
You just said that if God is not everything, some thing were not created bu him..what created them?
lol, explain what you mean.
DraugarX 1 month ago
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@DraugarX Well I can honestly say that I did not copy and paste anything. However I am using what I have read from Aquinas and Augustine on this subject.
I quote you "There is evil in the world because God is not everything, the things that are evil..that is not God. God is GOOD, God is Good things,"
Either this is sort of pantheism, God in all good things, or you are saying that God created just the Good things and that something else created the evil things. Which is it?
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 NO, I don't believe in an infinite regression of causes..its a THEORY!
Its a Stupid Theory.
Actually its a stupid borrowed theory that you copied and pasted!
I asked you to explain what you meant when you said that some things were not created by God, What created them?
You are setting yourself up for another contradiction, as usual.
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX Everything is created by God. There is nothing he did not create. You are the one who is saying that God is Good things, not me.
Perhaps you need to give me an explanation of good and evil and how they are related?
I know it sounds silly, but words have meaning and if we don't properly understand them, there can be problems.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 Are you really that dumb that you need me to explain good and evil?
You are aware that ADAM and EVE ATE from the damn tree of ggod and evil and thus, we all have knowledge of good and evil..yet here you are asking for a definition or clarification of good and evil?
Did you evolve from a monkey?
Did God create the internet? The Dildo? The Slinky"
Did God create MURDER?
Did God create RAPE?
Did God create YOUR ignorance?
All things are NOT from God.
You have issues
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX This is an important question... how do we define what is good and what is evil? Sorry you don't seem to like these tough questions... but they have to be answered. The bible gives us the answers to these questions, but you reject it. So we have to look elsewhere.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 God is the Good things..these Good things are from Him.
Is Evil from God?
Is Rape and Incest from God?
What about pedophilia..did that come from God or just from Gods "Church"?
Did God CREATE Child Molestation?
DraugarX 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 You make no sense saying "Everything is created by God" because I said the things that are bad or evil are not from God.
Do you see the ignorance of your words?
You need to google you an answer up, lol.
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX If Evil did not come from God then where did it come from?
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 MEN
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX Did God create men or not? Why did he create men that are evil?
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10Did God Create Rape and Incest and Child Molestation
This is an important question that I have asked 3 times and you won't answer.
I take it by your continuing posts that you think He did but you can't bring yourself to post either way?
Why is this? Don't you believe what you ACT like you do?
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX Evil is evil, it does not really matter what it is, stealing, rape, abortion etc. You are saying that evil came from Man, yet God created man, so did he create evil men? Or did something else create evil men?
Perhaps it is because your understanding of the relationship between good and evil is wrong that you can't answer this.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 Why can't you give an answer?
I will give you mine and maybe you will have enuff courage to give yours?
God did NOT create Rape and Incest and Child Molestation.
Your turn..be a man?
DraugarX 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 Who can't answer? God did not create evil men and God did not create evil!
Who can't answer?
Oh, thats YOU that can't answer
This makes 5 times in a row
Did God Create Rape and Incest and Child Molestation?
Grow Some!
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX It is obvious you can't answer this... so try this.
Evil is the absence of Good, or a defect in Good, it has no existence of it's own. Evil is the result of us disobeying what God considers good. It is the result of our free will. So God did not create evil, yet he allows it so that we will have free will.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
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@kgxxx10 lol, AMAZING, I have been telling you that God did not create those things.
You have been saying that God created ALL things?
Make up your mind? Do you need me to copy and paste your crap?
YOU SAID:
"If Evil did not come from God then where did it come from?"
"Everything is created by God. There is nothing he did not create."
"are saying that God created just the Good things and that something else created the evil things"
MAKE UP YOUR MIND, ROFL
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX God did not create evil, it is a consequence of his allowing us to have free will.
You are the one that seems to believe that evil is a thing that has an existence of it's own. You can't create something that does not exist of it's own.
Now since you believe God is in all Good things, and that evil comes from men, how did this evil get there? Why is there evil? Would not a good God create everything good?
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 WHAT?
Are you Contradicting yourself AGAIN?
You really are confused and you don't even know what you believe.
That is sad. The Catholic Church has really messed you up..you can't even think.
You should read your post and try to answer it???
God DID NOT CREATE EVIL! Get it through your head.
You are actually too dumb to be on here, I am sorry.You talk in circles and you can't answer my questions or your own.
You should go back to attacking Witnesses and your idiot friend
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX God did not create evil... however he allows it due to our free will.
You are not answering my questions, yet I am answering yours (even though you don't like the answers).
You say God is in all Good things, and Evil comes from man, yet you don't say how this evil got there? At least I give an explanation of how it gets there.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 OMG, you are an IDIOT kgxxx.
Evil is not a THING?
It isn't made or formed or made of "MATTER". Evil is a CONCEPT, an Idea.
Evil is a Moral issue of what is Perceived and right or wrong, good or bad
You are so messed up by the bible and the rcc that you are dumbfounded to reason.
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX I love the personal attacks, provide logical proves to prove your position whatever that is. I'm waiting.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 You can't see evil, you can't feel or touch evil, you can't feel evil or hear evil
DAMN! What is wrong with you?
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX Actually I would say what is wrong with you... because that is exactly what I said! Are you unable to read what I wrote?
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 Then why do you keep asking me where it comes from??
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX Because you seems to be pointing to that fact that it is something created. And not a defect in something. If it is a defect in something, then it has no existence of it's own, hence is not created at all. Now you say that Evil is created by man, yet God made man, did God make man evil or good?
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 Neither. You asked me where does evil come from and I said MEN!
I didn't say MEN CREATED EVIL..its not a THING, fool?
Damn, you annoy me with your ignorence.
How do you know God created man?
How did He do it?
How do you know God is a HE?
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX wow no wonder ur so stupid. did u know that ur fits of anger are the result of ur not being able to listen. listen to his point then urs. dont favor one because u started with it first. the bible when read explains that satan who was created by god ALLOWED evil to fester in his heart then it was born into a sin which passed on to man from his persuasive ways. from man entered sin and then passed on to all mankind allowing us to consider the works of the flesh and other evil
dangerman808 1 month ago
@dangerman808 Please be nice. I'm trying to avoid using the bible, since he rejects it. What I am trying to do is understand his way of thinking and what he believes, this is hard because he is so evasive. I am being to wonder if he really knows what he believes or is just unable to explain it.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
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kgxxx10 1 month ago
@DraugarX we have evil because we make no effort to resist or become blameless. the bible also says that man was made from dust and then from sin u die u return to dust. r u that stupid god isnt a human so he isnt actually he. u r so stupid to not take in consideration of figurative language. men r dominant calling humans mankind not mankind and womankind and hence putting the term ''he'' aline with describing god. god is a spirit and not a human if ur too dumb to know. stay in school.
dangerman808 1 month ago
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@DraugarX we have evil because we make no effort to resist or become blameless. the bible also says that man was made from dust and then from sin u die u return to dust. r u that stupid god isnt a human so he isnt actually he. u r so stupid to not take in consideration of figurative language. men r dominant calling humans mankind not mankind and womankind and hence putting the term ''he'' aline with describing god. god is a spirit and not a human if ur too dumb to know. stay in school.
dangerman808 1 month ago
@DraugarX we have evil because we make no effort to resist or become blameless. the bible also says that man was made from dust and then from sin u die u return to dust. r u that stupid god isnt a human so he isnt actually he. u r so stupid to not take in consideration of figurative language. men r dominant calling humans mankind not mankind and womankind and hence putting the term ''he'' aline with describing god. god is a spirit and not a human if ur too dumb to know. stay in school.
dangerman808 1 month ago
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@DraugarX we have evil because we make no effort to resist or become blameless. the bible also says that man was made from dust and then from sin u die u return to dust. r u that stupid god isnt a human so he isnt actually he. u r so stupid to not take in consideration of figurative language. men r dominant calling humans mankind not mankind and womankind and hence putting the term ''he'' aline with describing god. god is a spirit and not a human if ur too dumb to know. stay in school.
dangerman808 1 month ago
@DraugarX God created everything, man is a thing, therefore God created man. That is pretty simple.
I do not know the process God used to create man since I was not there. :-)
Actually God is not a HE, however this is how we refer to things which display human like characteristics. Note you have not proven to me that God has an intellect. We can only determine via natural reason that God has some sort of order. Please correct me if I am wrong.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 Yea, sure, maybe, i think, could be, ...
This is how you answer.."we can only determine VIA natural reson that God has some sort of order"?? Nice FORGERY more Summa Theologica?
What does that mean?
God didn't create ME!
DraugarX 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 The bible calls God HE, many times..IS THE BIBLE WRONG?
You said God is not a HE and the bible says God is a HE??
Is the bible wrong?
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX By HE I mean in the sense of Male/Female, God has no gender. Gender is a function for reproduction, God does not reproduce, therefore he has no gender. However in English IT generally means something impersonal, or an object, where HE/SHE is used to denote persons. God is a person.
The Bible also uses the same personification. It is not wrong, it is just a limitation of human language.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 God has no gender?? Where did you come up with that? Isn't God a father?
Didn't HIS son who is also God? come from the ubion of God(male) and a Virgin(woman)?
Isn't MAN made in Gods image(Male)?
Does MAN(male) have the same image and likeness as God EXCEPT God threw in a Penis?
Why dosent the bible ever say God our Mother?
Aren't ALL THREE of your Gods MALE?
Don't you claim each one is a HE?
Why didn't God reveal HIMSELF? as a woman?
You don't know what you believe, lol
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX You are totally confused about this. You are still trying to prove the bible wrong without even attempting to understand it.
1) Jesus the Son was not born of a sexual act between God and Mary, this is not even biblical! God caused Mary to become pregnant. I can postulate some ideas, but when you can create the universe out of nothing, this is not really that difficult to do :-).
....
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@DraugarX 2) Yes man is created in the image and likeness of God. However since God is a spirit, and man is a physical being, this means that it can't be the literal image. The image, is that man has the ability to reason, think, love, and has a will.
3) Because the proper way to refer to God is via the male gender, this is just how language works, get over it. We can't change it.
4) All three are referred to as male. Note Christ is a Male!
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@DraugarX 5) Why did God not reveal himself as a woman? I have no idea, you would have to take that up with him.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 I LOVE your excuses.
IT JUST IS..
Is that truly all you have?
Oh, I DONT KNOW..thats a good one coming from someone who seems to know everything, lol
So, calling God a HE or HIM or Father is wrong but it isn't?
And, you will continus to call God a HE and a HIM and a Father...JUST BECAUSE?
Thats perfect, keep talking.
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX It is not an excuse, this is how God as revealed himself.
Now will you start talking about what you believe God to be so we can see how you derive this?
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 Lets stay on your biblical creation from this true book.
God said "Let US? make man in OUR image? and you say God dosen't have an image?
OK, who is US? Who is OUR?
WHO SPOKE?
WHY did God SPEAK and to WHO?
DraugarX 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 Which TALE of the creation of man is the TRUE or CORRECT one?
DraugarX 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 Why are women LESS than men?
Why do women need to keep quiet in matters of the church and faith?
Why didn't God ever reveal ITSELF as a woman?
If all of this is merely Language and we all know better now, why continus to teach children that God is a HE and God is a Male and God is a FATHER..if you say it isn't true?
Why do you continue to perpetrate a lie?
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX Woman are not less than Men, where is this coming from? More distractions? Man and woman are different (unless you have lived in total isolation you will know this). Both serve different roles, neither is better or less then the other.
Because God has revealed himself as Father, again take it up with him.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 Common sense tells you the opposite of everything you say, thats why you have to say, IT JUST IS...TAKE IT UP WITH HIM? (HIM?) lol
So, according to you, The bible is true and it calls God a HE, which HE is not and it says God made MAN is HIS image and God dosen't have an image?
KEEP GOING
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX How do you figure common sense is opposite to what I am saying?
BTW... I don't take everything in the bible Literally. Therefore your argument does not make any sense.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 Are you saying that some things in the bible are not actually true accounts of what happened?
DraugarX 1 month ago
@DraugarX I'm saying that some things in the bible are not meant to be take word for word literally! This does not make them untrue. There are many styles of writing in the bible.
kgxxx10 1 month ago
@kgxxx10 lol, IT JUST IS, HUH?
So God creating man didn't really happen or it really didn't happen that way?
It was DIFFERENT?
Give an example of creation that JUST IS and JUST ISN'T at the same time
Go ahead, use your "common sense" and tell use.