Benny "Irish Polyglot: vs Steve"Lingo Steve" Kaufman: The War-Christophe Clugston

[FredericBayer]

I have to say I disagree with your idea of the relevance of qualifications. Certainly, it would be silly for them to claim they are "professional linguists" considering that, as you have said, they do not have degrees in linguistics. However, the term "linguist" encompasses both professionals and amateurs, and amateurs can be equally as well-versed in linguistics as professionals. Your comparison with pilots and physicians is flawed, too, as those are vocational jobs, not academiae.

[christopheclugston]

@FredericBayer Of course those without credentials denounce them. Your specious reasoning is WRONG.To use your own paltry definitions: Linguistics is a vocation--like most people on YT you no idea about Field Linguists. To put it in terms that maybe you can grasp: people can call themselves healers all they want--but when they try to say they are medical doctors when they have no credentials they aren't.

[FredericBayer]

@christopheclugston It isn't a vocation. I speak a moribund language and am currently in contact with a university from the University of Edinburgh, Scotland, who is aiming to document the language. He agrees with me: Linguistics isn't a vocation.

[christopheclugston]

@FredericBayer Name of person, credentials? Sorry, your wanting it to be that way doesn't make it that way. And you did admit that you , yourself, don't have the credentials. Point blank, I am around Field Linguists everyday. I have to deal with minority languages everyday--reality here is that this all is a JOB not a theoretical pursuit as you are trying to imply.

[FredericBayer]

@christopheclugston Yes, it is a job, but it is *also* a descriptor for a theoretical and/or non-occupational pursuit, you need to get used to that. Similarly, you can be an artist despite it not being your line of work and despite not having studied the subject. Same for being an author, artist, musician, philosopher, mathematician et al. As you yourself say, you are a field linguist. The reason that distinguishment is made at all is because it's not the only type.

[christopheclugston]

@FredericBayer Sorry, you just don't have the qualifications to speak as an authority. Maybe after you get to post grad level you will have learned enough to make an informed, rather than a pundit, dilletante remark.

[FredericBayer]

@christopheclugston *in contact with a linguist, rather. Excuse me.

[christopheclugston]

@FredericBayer You might also wait to comment until you have made it through the university before giving your 'expert' opinion.

[taskmasterblaster]

what Steve Kaufman doesn't like, and what people seem to misunderstand all the time is not that Benny uses a communicative approach, but I think the ridiculous claims he makes about how fast and how competent he becomes. Benny has claimed to have been mistaken for a native speaker in a number of languages. His videos make refuting these claims quite simple. I think he has a lot of offer, but the reason he gets the negativity is because of his ridiculously overstated claims.

[christopheclugston]

@taskmasterblaster Well He has a near C 2 level in German--which is quite higher than Steve or most people who try to babble about learning German on YT.

[taskmasterblaster]

@christopheclugston I believe he's studied German for much longer than most of the others, so that would be understandable. I think Steve would be C1 or 2 in Mandarin wouldn't he? And he doesn't as far as I have seen make exaggerated claims. What level Benny is or isn't at German, or Steve at some other language/s is not really the point I want to make though.

[taskmasterblaster]

I also don't want to try to take anything away from what Benny has done. I like what Benny is about. I just think he says certain things like, C1 or C2 in 3 months, which claiming or expecting is really ridiculous. If he believes he can, or is achieving this, he's having a lend of himself, and when people say so, he just refuses to show proof, twists their arguments and plays the victim, to defend this unreasonable position, when all he had to do was just be real about it in the first place.

[taskmasterblaster]

Even B2 in 3 or 4 Months is brilliant. I think setting goals like that are ambitious, but probably achievable for a man like him who's been around the linguistic block more than his share of times, would still impress people, make his point, and draw a lot less negativity.

[christopheclugston]

@taskmasterblaster A B 1 in 3 months is beyond 95% of the people in the World. Benny's claims are no worswe than the text driven, left brain, same old twist with a new marketing plan that Steve does. He doesn't like anything other than what he is selling--wow what a surprise: trying to set up his own Hegemony. The deal with Steve (not with Benny) is that Steve thinks he is a LINGUIST--and he is clearly not. I've proved it several times.

[taskmasterblaster]

@christopheclugston I have no real position on Steve. I'm not one of his manic supporters and don't get into this whole Benny vs Kaufman thing. I just referenced a complaint he has, which a lot of other people share. And I agree, B1 in 3 months is amazing. And that is exactly my point, It's a more realistic goal, but still extremely challenging, but better saying he'll shoot for C2 in 3 months. This his where his credibility falls down, and probably the only reason he's been whipped by people.

[christopheclugston]

@taskmasterblaster Most people have no idea (by most I mean 98%) have no idea how high B 1 level is. I, also, have never met anyone who can hit a C 1 in 3 months (other than savant who learned passable Icelandic in a week). Benny and Steve both are trying to make money: of course they hate the other's ad method. Steve also tries to pass himself off as a linguist which he is not. He cannot learn any language in the World, a Field Linguist can.

[Jate0000]

@christopheclugston I think you are refering to Daniel Tammet but his case isn't that relevant to language learning because his brain works very differently than others. Regarding to Lingq, I've found a open free software who does pretty much everything you can find there, it's called "Learn with text". Benny did a video about it. I wonder what Steve Kaufman has to say about that.

[christopheclugston]

@Jate0000 Yes, it would be interesting to see the song and dance Steve gives you if you bring that up to him.

[silent0watcher]

@christopheclugston

Well, Benny attempted a C1 level exam in German about a year ago, and he didn't pass it. So I don't see how we can really say he's "near C2"?

I don't know about Steve K, but I think his parents were Jews who spoke German as their first language, right? So guess he may be pretty good in German, if he heard it spoken around him as a kid?

[christopheclugston]

@silent0watcher Benny missed the C 1 by 3 questions. Do u know how high that level is? Benny says that he tells everyone he will do well so that the pressure is on and he has to perform--that is far better than Steve's dismissive slanted view against everything other than the service he sells--which he offers no research 2 back, no data 2 support, and no credentials 2 bolster his babbling. His misunderstanding of Terrel, Krashen, etc is monumental: a clear indication that he's no academic.

[RyanMauriceAnderson]

@christopheclugston from what German of his I watched, he seems like a B1. And his accent isn't all that top-notch either.

[christopheclugston]

@RyanMauriceAnderson And about Steve?

[GriffenJC]

I love Michel Thomas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[christopheclugston]

@GriffenJC He was very smart in his translation approach

[epsilon910]

First off, great video! I'm really glad that a real linguist is going out and making videos! Keep them coming!

My question is that would you consider Bennies approach to learning languages and using it right away better than Kaufmann's way where he is not?

Next, I'm really curious on how you would suggest, to an average joe, how to go out and learn a new language say Spanish or German perhaps?

Thanks!

[christopheclugston]

@epsilon910 Keep watching. I will be posting How To Learn Any Language in the World very soon. Subscribing will tell you exactly when it goes up--if you are interested in the method.

[christopheclugston]

@epsilon910 BTW I know that you have subscribed I was just putting that out for others who might be interested.

[epsilon910]

@epsilon910 Ok thank you very much! Can't wait to see your responses!

[rsherfan]

After watching a few of Steve's videos and signing up and grabbing lots of source material I managed to progress to a reasonable level in a language (past few years). I had no idea how many other ways to learn were out there - but since I'm now pushing the language learning thing again (completely different language) it's pretty hard starting from scratch. You mentioned "the" best method out in your vid and I'll be using your vid as a reference for looking up these other methods. cheers mate!

[christopheclugston]

@rsherfan Look to future vids to give out some guarded insiders' knowledge

[Ajax440]

Another excellent performance! Most of these guys so-called polyglots on youtube have turn this into a living circus with the exception of three individuals that I have my respect for them as true polyglots. They have turned a science into some sort of run down language school barn and in case you ask if I speak any foreign languages--yes, but it takes years to mastered them correctly that is IF you want to reach a high fluency level.

[christopheclugston]

@Ajax440 I love it when they think they have discovered some incredible syntax rule or phonotactics.Hell, any graduate linguistics student in my field can do that in about 10 minutes with any language he is given to analyse. And yet these YT heads have no idea about prosody--can't define what they mean by levels (some do use the European levels A, B, and C) but most toss around their pathetic understanding of FSI/DLI ratings.

[espukr]

Thanks for a nicely delivered talk...  with quick enough speech so I didn't get bored within 30 seconds as usually happens in this type of video on languages...

[christopheclugston]

Kaufman he stated that linguistics isn't a science like Physics. My reply: yes linguistics is a HARD SCIENCE. If Steve knew what he babbles about he would know that Acoustic Phonology includes physics. Formal Semantics is also what drives computer programming. So go on, how do you live with spouting such non researched ideas. It's ok if you delete this I'll bring it up in a vid. But come one more non erudite linguaphile babbling about being a linguist, Steve. Let's hear it

[christopheclugston]

@Mandalearn Which languages? I just want to be clear on whether comments are researched or emotional personal feelings without any validation--this is a step up from the linguaphiles' pat each other on the back and try to prove something from consensus of the untrained video channel.

[beensolongg]

Hi, dude,

i have nthing to against the two linguaphils,

i just come by to great yo & Have a nice MuayThai-Fight, in bkk.

[christopheclugston]

@beensolongg More into K 1

[christopheclugston]

@Mandalearn Still waiting on the answer where you did your Thesis? Oh,I get it--your non answer is because you didn't do one. Why don't you talk about NASA another field you are not qualified in?

[christopheclugston]

Lots of non sequitur strategies being used (I am not posting those troll, tangent driven posts). To gain insight into the explication see the video titled Kaufman Schooled on linguistics

[christopheclugston]

Neophytes do yourselves a favor go here to get a bit of an education youtu. be /Vj4iRm 57ZXc

[christopheclugston]

Trolling from Kaufman's hordes won't make posted status (I allowed a few but no longer). Really you lot should learn from Benny's lot: they don't feel so inferior that baiting and trolling needs to be in their operational lexicon. If that's what you learned over at the Kaufman cult it's not advancing your cause to prove your method is better than Benny's.

[christopheclugston]

The trolling sycophants of Steve (no riff raff behavior from Benny or his ilk--which really shows something of their fans) really have demonstrated their hatred for credentials, research and actual communicative use (as the goal in language learning). Their cogent skills in the field of linguistics is not unlike those of a Trisomy 21 five year old child. Next they will explicate NASA (another topic they're as qualified to talk about).

[Jate0000]

Do you actually believe that a person can learn a language like german in 3 months (despite the 5 years Benny says took in school) and almost pass a C2 exam? There is no way to master a language like that one without studying hard.

[christopheclugston]

@Jate0000 Did Benny ever say mastery in 3 months? A closer set of listening skills will reveal no. He uses the B 1, B 2 C1 exams as a goal and actual proof of what he's done. That is far more than the sycophantic trolling hordes of Kaufman (German for salesman) do. How many of them have even tried taking the tests? Oh yeah most are in N. Am so dodge the tests

[Jate0000]

@christopheclugston He kind of did, first he says "The level required for this examination goes way beyond fluency; it is for Mastery of a language" and later he says he passed 4 of 5 aspects of the test. Don't get me wrong, I value him for his achievements and he makes THE strongest point in language learning methodology. I just feel that it is a little excessive to expect that C2 level in 3 months. I'm not saying this in favor of Benny's adversary Kaufman, I do not agree with him, nor like him

[christopheclugston]

@Jate0000 I agree. I have never met anyone that could pass C 2 in 3 months. What is important is that Benny has a goal. What is the nebulous goal of Kaufman's sycophants? Steve's got a product--vested interest--does that make him EVER open minded? Look at my vid Kaufman schooled on linguistics

[andrewl5201]

i don't think there's anything wrong with having different systems for learning languages. Statistics mean nothing to the individual. An input approach like Steve's work well for some people, however it's all about self interest. I say the individual trying to learn a new language, to do a lot of research, find different methods, and find a system that works for you. And don't say that that is the only system you should use because people learn things differently.

[christopheclugston]

@andrewl5201 Number 1 Steve needs to define "input." That's the first order in real academic discussion--but, oh yeah he and his sycophants are anti intellectualism. And how did you read that I said the way to learn an L 2 is either Steve or Benny. If you listen again, I mention the strongest method (backed by that hated research science, Steve loathes so much).

[christopheclugston]

@Mandalearn The people who know the difference between prescriptive and descriptive usage. So where did you your thesis? What was the title?

[christopheclugston]

@Mandalearn Yes, all of you who don't have the credentials of post graduate lingyuistics and couldn't present on a topic such as serial verbs (because you don't understand it) are not linguistics. You're linguaphiles. No one is holding any of you YT dilletantes from obtaining real credentials.

Please tell me when you can walk a university and obtain a position og linguist with your sophomoric understanding of what it encompasses.

[lingosteve]

eschew (ɪsˈtʃuː) [Click for IPA pronunciation guide]

— vb ( tr ) to keep clear of or abstain from (something disliked, injurious, etc); shun; avoid

[C14: from Old French eschiver, of Germanic origin; compare Old High German skiuhan to frighten away; see shy 1 , skew ]

[christopheclugston]

@lingosteve Steve that is indeed the hackneyed "NON PROFESSIONAL" usage. Here is what the word means in the discipline: "The study of the nature, structure, and variation of language, including phonetics, phonology, morphology, syntax, semantics, sociolinguistics, and pragmatics."

[lingosteve]

@christopheclugston just a lot of pedantic hype with little of benefit to anyone from my perspective.

[christopheclugston]

@lingosteve I see Grad school was too hard for you. Funny the only ones who run down credentials are the ones that don't have them. Freudian Penis Envy it would seem. You have not proven your approach better than Benny's. But, oh yeah, you need that statistics/research class you didn't take to do that

[christopheclugston]

@lingosteve For further explication see the video Steve Kaufman schooled on linguistics.

[christopheclugston]

@lingosteve Steve, you were confused who was the referant (antecedent) in this case. the IPA is not correct for the more used pronunciation, either. Do you know IPA?

[christopheclugston]

@lingosteve Steve, you're still having a hard time dealing with the precise usage of the term "linguist" Why don't you tell all of us how what you try to do fits into the following: "The study of the nature, structure, and variation of language, including phonetics, phonology, morphology, syntax, semantics, sociolinguistics, and pragmatics." Or does your plea to anti intellectualism leave you coming up short?

[i3ever]

Not needed here. take your trolling elsewhere.

[christopheclugston]

@i3ever What in the living HELL are you babbling about? Explicate if you can.

[irishpolyglot]

Great video! I don't remember ever saying I'm a linguist myself (I studied engineering), so I'd agree with you that this needs to be quite clear.

Definitely agreed about the emotional impact burning words into your mind! People don't realise how powerful real-life usage is away from computers and podcasts.

Steve is welcome to help promote his ideas, but this "war" does annoy me. I have no interest in tearing down other approaches when clearly other goals require other strategies. Good job!

[christopheclugston]

@irishpolyglot Good to have your take on it. I wonder if we will get "Lingo Steve" to brave the gulf and respond. Here's his chance in neutral ground to point by point eschew his side. I think we could finally clear it up (without some of the sycophants attacking out of reflex.

[christopheclugston]

@irishpolyglot You might like the followup Steve Kaufman get schooled on linguistics vid that I did.

[christopheclugston]

@irishpolyglot And the video that Steve and his lacky boys can't respond to in any sort of versimilitude of cogent thinking: Steve Kaufman has a big problem (why he and his lacky boys cannot begin to learn the majority of languages in the World)