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From: DarkMatter2525
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  • Im a nihilist and quite content with being so.

  • No... no way. You didn't draw that. Did you? Nobody has that much talent! ...Do they?

  • Nice

  • I feel my art skills are pitiful after seeing you doing yours so well...

  • Very Existential

    "If you are really a product of a materialistic universe, how is it you don't feel at home there? Do fish complain of the sea for being wet? Or if they did, would that fact itself not strongly suggest that they had not always, or would not always be, purely aquatic creatures? Notice how we are perpetually surprised at Time. (`How time flies! Fancy John being grown-up and married!') In heaven's name, why? Unless, indeed, there is something about us that is not temporal."

    CS Lewis

  • Exactly what I feel about my life as an atheist, that it now has not only value but also meaning.

  • ur an awesum artist

    i think your da boss 

  • How can you be such an incredible visual artist, yet when it comes to animation you lack that same finesse? Just an observation XD

  • @Andromeggedon hahha so true....now that you mention it. Incredible artist yet cartoony animation? not to take anything away from the message of this video, just funny coincidence thats all...

  • VERY well said!

  • Belief can have a wide range in meaning. A belief can be as simple as seeing the spine of a book across a room and holding a belief that that is actually a book and not a trick. It can also mean buying into a wide veriety of connected beliefs as presented in a religion. The point really comes down to be if you really care what is actually true or are you ok hedging your bets. I for one care about truth, and I couldn't care less about anyone's imaginary friend(s).

  • fuck me now.

  • @Texmurphy51 Agnosticism as being a position is actually a commonly held misconception. It actually comes from Gnosticism which comes from the Greek word for knowledge.

    To be gnostic means you have a certain belief, whereas agnostic means you do not have a certain belief.

    This means you could be a Gnostic theist, agnostic thiest, agnostic athiest or gnostic atheist. Most atheists are agnostic atheists which means:

    Atheist - they do not believe there is a god

    Agnostic - they are not certain

  • @SeanACampbell "Agnosticism as being a position ..Greek word for knowledge"

    The word was invented by Huxley specifically to distance himself from Atheists who blindly Believe in No God.

    Religious Atheists have Faith there is no God.

    You may consider yourself an Atheists, but your dont belong to the Religion because you allow for god,(Agnostic)

    Religious Atheists are an organized Belief System in No God

  • @Texmurphy51 It's not a religon

  • @Texmurphy51 I disagree and in any case you are playing semantics with words, it really doesn't matter.

    Atheists are atheists because they do not hold a theistic position which makes them "a-theist". It is in contrast with theist which means you have a belief (in at least a broad sense) that a deity or deities exist.

    Yes, Gnosticism is a modern word, like most words they have been created relatively recently. But it is based on a greek word and has a particular meaning.

  • @Texmurphy51 And none of this means that atheism is a religion. And it doesn't change the fact that you are unable to provide any evidence which supports the existence of any deities and therefore there is no reason me to hold a theistic position.

    And the fact we accept that an abstract god could possibly exist does not improve the credibility of religion, because religion is not based solely around the existence of god. Frankly, none of us are greatly concerned by the existence.

  • @Texmurphy51 What we really reject is all the other beliefs which religion attaches to this belief in a deities existence, and which like the deity itself has no rational or evidential basis.

    For example the virgin birth, the miracles, but more importantly where we came from and how old the universe is. None of the observations we have made point to an earth which is around ten thousand years old. None of the observations we have made point to humans being created in their current form.

  • @Texmurphy51 So you can insist that atheism is a religion all you like, but it does absolutely nothing to give any credibility to theistic beliefs, and certainly not if the people who believe those gods proclaim certainty in their belief in spite of the complete lack of any evidence whatever to support it.

  • @Texmurphy51 thats an organization, not a religion!

  • @SeanACampbell logy is the word for knowledge.... bio-logy, the knowledge of the body

  • @ImSorryFive Actually, the -logy suffix comes from the greek "-logía" or "-λογία" which means to "speak" or "tell". In other words, the persons who "speaks" for a topic (lecturer).

    Gnosticism comes from the greek "γνῶσις" or "gnōsis" for knowledge.

  • I find it funny how all the athiest videos have mostly likes, but the religious ones have thumbs down, it is most probably because Athiest have logic behind it, but religions have a bunch of STORIES that are written by MAN.

  • Holy crap... Dude, you drew the fuck out of those three people.

  • when will the theists get it through theier ignorant skulls that atheism is NOT a relgion! It isnt even a belief system! It is the absence of faith! It is the name given to person who does not believe in god! NOT a relgion, NOT a faith NOT a system of belief-simply someone who doesnt believe in god!!!! Get it!!!!!?

  • Nice pictures, and good cause.

  • Why must like have some separate "meaning"? Why can't being lucking enough to be alive and experience this wonderful planet be enough?

  • @SmokeRingsPipeDreams Thing is are you seeing the world or experiencing the world, because there's a difference between the to. Since most people will only see the world, well only a very few will experience the world.

    Personally right now i'm working on traveling so i can experience the world and what it has to offer. Because I don't want a point a and point b, Instead I want my whole travel to be something I experience and live, instead of just look at.

  • Your concept of the "Religious Mind" is bizzare. You take the statment of a few & think that EVERYONE thinks the same. Most people dont live their lives thinking what god would have them do each second but it appears YOU live yours thinking about the non existence of God.

    You are as obcessed with your Belief in No God as the most Religous person I have ever met.

    You are a prime example why Atheists have a Religion. You proselytize your thru your videos, trying to convert all.

  • @Texmurphy51 You are the perfect example of why the religious suck. They think they can just change definitions to make them fit their world view. Guess what. You can't. Deal with it.

  • @Floortjahh sez"You are the perfect example of why the religious suck"

    I am an Agnostic idiot

    I am not changining definitions, you are. You cherry pick definitions from the past & present to paint your picture.

    You hate Christians, thats your target.

    I am saying they, with all other mans Religions are myth BUT

    Atheism cannot use these Religions to disprove God

    YOU need to deal with that

  • @Texmurphy51 Wow it's kinda impressive how you managed to say so many words making so little sense.

    You can't prove a negative.. idiot

    Oh, and I don't hate Christians. I dislike religion, any religion, in general. Nothing wrong with believing in god, if it helps a person. But organized religious institutions have caused, and are still causing, too much harm to too many people. Enough allready!

  • @Floortjahh sez"You can't prove a negative.. idiot"

    ALL unproven hypotheses are Negatives, IDIOT.

    The Multiverse hypothesis has no evidence only wishfull thinking, yet many Atheists accept it.

    "I dislike religion"

    Untrue, you dont dislike the Religion of Atheism.

    It is an organized system of Faith, trying to gather people into its Belief System.

    It will cause as much harm as any of the other Religions

  • @Texmurphy51 Well I believe there is a magic golden ant. Prove to me it doesn't exist. Catch my drift IDIOT?

    If you call the multiverse wishful thinking you obviously have no clue how the various multiverse theories came about. Do you even realize what theoretical physics has done for you, how many every day devices depend on it? Dont be so quick to dismiss it just because you cant understand it

    And there you go changing definitions again. How dishonest. Cant call a non-belief in something faith

  • @Texmurphy51 Atheism is not a religion- its isnt even a belief system- let alone a faith based one- it is the absence of faith- not a relgion, not a beleif system not a movement-it is simply the name given to a person who doesnt believe in god. Thats all.

  • @dancingnancy09 sez"Atheism is not a religion- its isnt even a belief system"

    Atheists Believe there is No God

    "not a movement-it is simply the name given to a person"

    If its not a movement then why are Atheists suing to remove Xmas & Easter from public view?

    Go to atheistalliance(dot)org

    & see how many organizations in all countries belong to the world wide movement of the Athetist Religion

  • @Texmurphy51 IT IS NOT A RELIGION!! It is the absence of relgion- the absence of faith- I have been atheistalliance- i have been to many atheist conventions-it is for discussion- if you want to know why some American atheists are suing- ASK THEM! A group of people suing doesnt make them a religion or a movement it makes them a group of people with the same interest-A religion is based on faith, it has a belif system- atheism is the absence of that- get it through head-it is NOT A RELIGION

  • @Texmurphy51

    Although I would generally consider myself a strident Athiest, I really have no objection to Xmas or Easter. I think it is one of those nice cultural traditions, I don't oppose the nativity scene any more than I oppose the pagan tree.

    I don't dislike church buildings, and I like the sound of church bells. Where religion and I have problems is where it tries to destroy science based on evidence, on the grounds it contradicts a book written 2000 years ago not supported by evidence.

  • @Texmurphy51 And "athiesm" is not a religion. It is a lack of religious belief. Athiesm in and of itself is not the belief there is no god.

    Think of it this way.

    Position A - There is a God

    Position B - There is not a God.

    A rejection of position A is not an acceptance of position B. Although those positions are mutually exclusive, you do not have to accept either one. You can suspend judgement, on the basis there is no evidence or method of determining whether either position is correct.

  • @Texmurphy51 Some atheists may also actively believe that there is definitely no god. As it happens, I happen to believe that there is probably no god. But that is separate to my "athiesm", and that belief is provisional.

    I believe in god about as much as I believe in fairies. I happen to think that fairies don't exist, but I am perfectly willing to be proven wrong on this, just as I am happy to be proven wrong that there is no god.

    The key thing here is: Proof

  • @Texmurphy51 One last thing, even if there is a god - which god. There are a lot of religions out there, and the vast majority are mutually exclusive in their position.

    They can't all be right - but they can all be wrong.

    So for me, really the existance of god in general is irrelevant. What is not irrelevant is everything else which religion attaches to the existance of god.

    For example, the belief that gays should not be able to marry, or practically anything to do with creationism.

  • @SeanACampbell If I use your Position A,B logic, that means Theism spawns no Religions either. Think of it this way. You have 2 choices 1 Belief in a God 2 Belief in No God Dispite Atheists saying they lack Belief it is untrue. You cannot choose not to make a choice. Organized Belief in either God or No God is a Religion by definition. You think "Religious Belief" is only Belief in God, Your admission of being unsure makes you Agnostic, not Atheist. No they are not the same
  • @Texmurphy51 And actually the positions are factual positions, not belief - it is what you accept to be true.

    =There is a god=

    =There is not a god=

    These are statements of fact. They are either true, or they are not true. What you believe does not change whether or not either statement is true or untrue, and they are mutually exclusive.

    Now from the scientific perspective, absolutely nothing is 100% certain. But we accept certain things to be true when you know to a high degree of certainty.

  • @Texmurphy51

    So in that regard, I do not accept either position to be true. Due to the fact that we are unable to do a test to determine whether or not either statement is true or untrue, a person following the scientific method of thinking must suspend judgement.

    As I do not hold a theistic belief, I am an atheist. This does not mean my position is unchangeable - it can be changed in the light of new evidence. This contrasts to the theistic position where they believe there is certainly a god

  • @Texmurphy51 Organised belief one way or the other is not a religion by definition at all, because the definition of a religion is generally accepted to be the the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.

    Certain "religions" are really more philosophies by the classical definition, for example Buddhism.

    I would say that calling atheists religious would be like calling not smoking a habit or not collecting stamps a hobby. It is a "lack" of belief.

  • @Texmurphy51 I would accept that it would be reasonable to call atheism a position on or with regards to religion, but you can hardly call it a religion itself.

    In any case, it is only word play. The concept we are discussion with theism is essentially whether people take the statement =There is a god= to be true. For the most part, this is irrelevant.

    It is not the existence of god which really is the question in most discussions, but rather the "attachments" (virgin birth, rapture, creation)

  • @Texmurphy51 I would also like to state that I can absolutely choose to reject both positions. You do not have to hold a position on a statement. If you told me there was a rock on the other side of the moon in the shape of a heart, I do not have to accept it as either true or untrue.

    If I am unable to have a look, or observe evidence (photos etc.) then I can suspend judgement on it until such time that evidence is available.

  • @Texmurphy51 we arent trying to remove christmas and easter from the public view. at least in america. our constitution demands a separation of church and state. we just dont approve of our government endorsing christianity as much as it does. that will not remove it from the public eye

  • @kefkapalazzo1 sez"our constitution demands a separation of church and state."

    Oh of only Obama followed the Constitution to that degree.

    Please show me in the Constitution where it says "seperation of church and state"

  • @Texmurphy51 "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" not explicitly stated but definitely implied. very first sentence of the very first amendment

  • @Texmurphy51 Kefkapalazzo1 is right. It's very clear that the government cannot interfere with any citizens religious practices, but in turn no religion can interfere with the government or it's laws.

    People who fail to see the importance of this forget to ask one question: If they would pass a law in respect to one religion, which one? Catholicism? Southern Baptist? Wicca? Mormonism? Scientology? Islam? It keeps their laws out of government too, so be thankful.

  • Eternity not that possible, but at most a 1,000 with science.

    If you think about it, that is not that long.

  • randi <3

    one of the best people to ever live EVER

  • You're an excellent artist.

  • I like your accent :) you sound like Christopher Walken

  • Hey christians, see that dislike bar? that also measures your IQ.

  • @shiftdrive81 ,,,that dislike bar very well indicates how SKEWED the world is. That dislike bar will not help your case on Judgment Day.

  • @bornagain001 skewed? or screwed? I don't give a fuck what you think, but if you're just watching these videos for the sole purpose of spamming christianity in the comments then you're wasting your time. Go preach your shit somewhere else, douchebag.

  • PLEEEAAAASE make a video about SOPA

  • Out of curiousity... Thumbs up if you would like to live for a while, but eventually cease to exist.

  • Out of curiousity... Thumbs up if you would like to live forever.

  • I cant find the rest of your videos on your channel anymore :(.

  • continued... believing in god on the other hand will give you infinite benefits unlike the finite benefits you get from drawing a picture which only lasts for few minutes while your drawings are not destroyed.

  • @yahmana Hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahah­ahaha that's the funniest thing I have heard all day. I needed a good laugh.

    Oh wait you're serious?

  • you are making these drawings so you can brag about it and feel good for few minutes in life, if they get destroyed later you don't give a fuck because you either earned money or fame from the work you created.

  • Why would you draw "the amazing" randi? He's such a dork.

    Also, I think that you're a poor philosopher.

  • You have some serious skills my friend !!! The draw of the Lady is just perfect !!

  • True meaning is found in the present moment. Not coincidentally, it turns out that transcendent religious experiences are only moments of total immersion in the present moment. Live today, when you're dead it won't matter; you'll be dead.

  • @pastafarianprophet ......"Live today, when you're dead it won't matter; you'll be dead."

    By WHAT AUTHORITY do you know this to be true?

  • @bornagain001 lol. We don't know things based on authority, we know things based on evidence and reason. have a nice day.

  • @pastafarianprophet ....Cosmic evolution requires faith in TIME and CHANCE.

    Stellar evolution requires faith in TIME and CHANCE.

    Chemical evolution requires faith in TIME and CHANCE.

    Organic evolution requires faith in TIME and CHANCE.

    Macro evolution requires faith in TIME and CHANCE.

    Your GOD is TIME and CHANCE.

  • @bornagain001 Wrong again. Please stop taking your understanding of basic scientific theories from answersingenesis and Kent Hovind.

    Chance plays a part, but it is not the primary role in any of those things.

  • @bornagain001 First of all, none of these are generally categorized as evolution except for biological evolution. Secondly, there is no difference between micro and macro evolution, apart from the time frame. Third, there is a lot more involved in all these processes besides just time and chance. Lastly, we know time and chance exist. We can observe them and their effects. You, however, cannot do the same for your god.

  • "there is no difference between micro and macro evolution, apart from the time frame."

    Of course there is a difference. We have all seen micro evolution (changes within a species) NO ONE has ever witnessed MACRO evolution. One species becoming another species. A fish becoming a reptile or a reptile becoming a bird. IT'S ALL A MYTH!

  • @bornagain001 You again assert that we cannot observe it as a basis for believing that a magical creature from some outside undetectable dimension having done it. You are again, absolutely wrong.

    There is nothing about the genome which makes it impossible for species to change. Further based on the observations available we can infer that it is correct. Further, this is supported by analysis of the fossil record and the genome.

    All the evidence fits nicely together into a map of our history.

  • "There is nothing about the genome which makes it impossible for species to change. Further based on the observations available we can infer that it is correct. "

    You can INFER all you want Sean. A cat will ALWAYS be a cat and a dog will ALWAYS be a dog. Man was never a monkey and the world is filled with intelligent FOOLS. Don't be one of them Sean. I'm not here for my health but simply to bring LIGHT into a world of spiritual darkness.

  • @bornagain001 Well whether a cat will always be a cat entirely depends on how you define the term "Cat". After all, no two lifeforms are identical. We have to find a way of grouping things. Two lifeforms we call a cat are simply more similar to each other than they are a lifeform we call a dog.

    With regards to your statement "Man was never a monkey". Well no, because monkeys are a particular type of primate. What we say is that modern monkeys and modern humans have a common ancestor.

  • @bornagain001 Scientific observations are not based on what we can see with our own eyes directly. I will again give the example of the murder scene. The fact that no one has seen a murder occur does not prevent us from determining how the murder happened, and who did it.

    We can observe the evidence which is left over. We can see the fingerprints on the knife, we can determine that the person had a motive for committing the murder. We can show that someone did it through evidence.

  • "We can observe the evidence which is left over. We can see the fingerprints on the knife, we can determine that the person had a motive for committing the murder. We can show that someone did it through evidence."

    Thank you for describing EXACTLY how God works....without us ever seeing Him. People who beat their wives and then find Jesus and change....don't do it on their own. The Holy Spirit brings that change. Same for drug addicts and porn addicts.

  • @bornagain001 The fact that people may change because they become religious does not make them right. If that were the case, everyone who stops drinking alcohol because they became a muslim must also be right.

    We would probably both agree that, if someone stopped murdering because they believed giant spaghetti monster told them to stop, that it is unlikely to mean that the giant spaghetti monster necessarily exists.

    People change for lots of reasons, some good and some bad.

  • "People change for lots of reasons, some good and some bad."

    " But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God’s wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. God “will give to each person according to what he has done.” Romans 2:5-6

  • @bornagain001 More claims, not supported. I am perfectly willing to change my position and accept that I may be wrong on a lot of topics provided I am given evidence. It is not me who appears to think they have certainty on this topic. You claim that the statement =There is a god= is true. I claim that there is no evidence to support either =There is a god= or =There isn't a god= and therefore I cannot pass judgement one way or the other. I have suspended judgement.

  • @bornagain001 But if you tell me I am required to accept that the positions you accept are true, then you need to provide evidence to support it.

    And thus far, you have failed to do so, so I will continue not to accept your position as true.

  • As I told you before. My responsibility is only to SPREAD THE GOSPEL. Many will reject it as many rejected Christ 2000 years ago. Hell is not yet half full. One more will make no difference.

  • @bornagain001 So you are saying that you spread it, regardless of whether there is any evidence to support it?

    Well I guess in that case the conversation is over, there is really nothing much else to discuss. You are basically saying that your belief requires blind faith and I simply am unable to believe without tangible evidence.

    Regardless, I think it is important for me to say that I have nothing against your personally and I hope I have caused no offense.

  • @SeanACampbell ...I NEVER said belief requires BLIND FAITH. I said....You don't get sight into the spiritual realm until you EXERCISE FAITH in the physical realm. When you exercise that FAITH....God will begin to reveal things to you that will turn your world upside down. It did mine. I used to be a devout believer in evolution just like you. God how now opened my eyes to how silly it all is.

  • @bornagain001 "I said....You don't get sight into the spiritual realm until you EXERCISE FAITH in the physical realm. When you exercise that FAITH..."

    Is there any use of the word "faith" as you mean it which couldn't be repleaced with "gullibility"?

    "I used to be a devout believer in evolution just like you."

    Presumably not because you understood how it works or what the tons of supporting evidence are...

  • @bornagain001 I'm sorry, but it is simply impossible for me to have faith in something for which there is no evidence, and I cannot see any way in which having faith would lead to be being able to gain a new sense of the spiritual realm.

    Why on earth would any god or gods expect you just to believe something with no evidence in order to see some additional realm? And further, why would so many religions exist which all contradict each other if this is true.

  • @bornagain001 As for evolution, I think it would be a bit silly to say you were a "devout believer" in evolution. Evolution is not a religion, it is a theory of life changes over time which is supported by vast amounts of evidence.

    We believe to a high degree of certainty that it is correct because all the observations and evidence support it. But that does not mean we would continue to support it if the evidence existed to contradict it. And you have shown clear misunderstanding of it.

  • @SeanACampbell .... "I think it would be a bit silly to say you were a "devout believer" in evolution." A DEVOUT evolutionist is one who believes evolution happened by itself. There are people who believe in evolution but that God put it in place and then stepped back and let it happen. Both would be wrong. God CREATED every in 6 literal days...including the Universe.

  • @bornagain001 "There are people who believe in evolution but that God put it in place and then stepped back and let it happen. Both would be wrong. God CREATED every in 6 literal days.."

    Did god also create all the evidence we've found indicating that we share common ancestry? I mean, he's have to be a total dick to try and trick us into believing in evolution and then penalize us for it.

  • @BailiffQuimby ....God is not trying to trick you. He tells us very clearly in Genesis in what order everything was made and how long it took Him. You are trying to take the remains of dead animals and connect the dots. Because of YOUR SIN...you stumble in the darkness and think it is light. You will not be penalized for believeing in evolution. You will be penalized for breaking GOD'S LAW. The 10 Commandments.

  • @bornagain001 "....God is not trying to trick you. He tells us very clearly in Genesis in what order everything was made and how long it took Him."

    Right, the old dusty book of fables he gave us tells us the way he created the earth, and then he apparently changed the world around significantly so that studies of geology, geography, the transitional fossil record, comparative physiology, cosmology, and comparative genetics all would suggest a different version of history. A trick.

  • "the old dusty book of fables he gave us tells us the way he created the earth"

    That dusty old book has outlived 2000 years of scoffers like yourself and will be here long after you have died and stood in Judgment.

  • @bornagain001 There are a lot of old things around, there are religious texts which exist even older than the bible. Should we believe them because they are old - on that logic we should believe them even more strongly because they are older.

  • @bornagain001 "AGE has nothing to do with TRUTH."

    I agree. But then why would you use the bible's 2000-year lifespan as an argument for its reliability?

    "Only if you have placed your FAITH in it."

    Seriously? Are you actually suggesting that if people read the Iliad and believe in the stories through faith, then that means the Greek gods are all real?? Or did you mean something else? Because that's how it came across...

  • @bornagain001 "That dusty old book has outlived 2000 years of scoffers like yourself and will be here long after you have died and stood in Judgment."

    The Iliad has it beat by 800+ years. Does that make Greek gods all real too?

  • "The Iliad has it beat by 800+ years. Does that make Greek gods all real too?"

    Only if you have placed your FAITH in it.

  • @bornagain001 That may well be the stupidest of things you have said - obviously peoples belief in Greek gods does not mean they exist. If things we believe come true, I believe I own your house now fuck off.

  • @SeanACampbell ...Sean...did your momma FAIL to teach you common courtesy and how to speak to others or did she do a good job.... but you reject her standards of courtesy?

  • @bornagain001 My "momma" taught me how to take a joke, and not be offended at every little thing. By the same token, did your momma fail to teach you logic and reason or did she do a good job... but you reject her standards in favour of the concept of an invisible man.

  • @SeanACampbell ...."My "momma" taught me how to take a joke, and not be offended at every little thing. "

    Since you don't seem to know...and think it's "cute"....I will tell you that MANY AMERICANS take offense at crude language. It shows a definite LACK OF INTELLIGENCE.

  • @bornagain001 Clearly it does not show a lack of intelligence, that has never been shown to be the case.

    "Fuck" "Shit" "Cunt" they are all just words. There are no bad words, just bad use of words. Any "word" or "phrase" can be negative depending on the context in which it is used.

    I consider it just one of those interesting relics which has been carried forward, just like many superstitious beliefs about black cats and broken mirrors.

  • @bornagain001 And the thing with offense is, it is taken rather than given. People take offense to many things, I find it offensive that the religious tell children they will burn for enternity for the moral crime of failing to believe something for which there is no evidence. I take offense at people telling homosexuals that the feelings they have are wrong and immoral.

    The point is, it doesn't matter what I take offense to. Everyone takes offense to things. You just have to deal with it.

  • @bornagain001 continued... It would be like if you told your child at the age of six or whenever that Santa wasn't actually real, but then you deliberately continued leaving presents for your child from Santa, dressed up as santa, sneaking down the chimney, left him letters from Santa saying "your Daddy is wrong, I'm real." When you tell someone one thing and then do everything possible to convince them of something else, that's a trick.

  • @bornagain001 "You are trying to take the remains of dead animals and connect the dots."

    It's a lot more than just dead animals. Everything in every branch of science agrees that a literal interpretation of the Genesis fable bears no resemblance to actual history of the earth.

    "Because of YOUR SIN...you stumble in the darkness and think it is light."

    Because of your herpes-infested unicorn, you are deluded into thinking that evidence-less thinking still counts as reasoning.

  • @bornagain001 On that point I must strongly disagree as all the evidence and observations strongly point to an old universe. Unless of course, your god designed the universe to look old in order to mislead us, which would just seem ridiculous and would make your god seem to be an incredible asshole, excuse my language.

  • @SeanACampbell ...CORRECT. All the evidence does point to what appears to be a very old Universe. Unfortunately, those craftsmen who build antique furniture also make their stuff look real old. God did not CREATE the Universe to look old to deceive you. God created it this way to make it LIVABLE. Y

  • @bornagain001 It is certainly not necessary to build a universe half way through its age for life, if your god is all powerful and wants people to be able to believe him what possible reason other than to mislead would he have for creating a universe which looks old.

    In fact, most of the universe would be unnecessary if he just wanted a place for life. The universe is not a perfect place for life - life cannot exist in the vast majority of it. It is mostly either a vacuum, too hot or too cold

  • How do you know what is necessary and what isn't necessary in a Universe?

  • @bornagain001 If you believe that god is all powerful and can do anything he wants, then he could have chosen to build the laws of physics in a manner which is not incredibly misleading.

    But he doesn't. If indeed god did create the universe like this, and the fossil record how it is, and the genetic information how it is, then the only conclusion you can draw is that he intended to mislead people. If he then is going to punish them for failing to believe, in my book that makes him an ass.

  • @SeanACampbell "he intended to mislead people."

    A valid point. Anyone who is aware of all the evidence for the history of the universe, earth, life, etc. recognizes it as irrefutable. The only way to reconcile that with a literal interpretation of the bible is to add in a sentence that says God deliberately designed the universe with misleading evidence to trick us. And yes, that would make him kind of a dick.

  • " If he then is going to punish them for failing to believe, in my book that makes him an ass."

    YOUR BOOK will not matter on Judgment Day....just as your book doesn't matter to anyone now.

  • @bornagain001 Frankly, the fact you think somehow god has whispered the "truth" into your ears does not make it convincing. If I got voices in my head telling me that all of our observations and evidence are wrong I would probably see a psychologist.

    It would seem very bizzare that god would create an old looking universe, then selectively inform people he decided he liked that it was all a big trick.

  • @bornagain001 You have made assertions about what evolution is which are incorrect, and you have claimed that we hold positions which we do not.

    I really cannot see how someone who has a good scientific understanding of the theory could later reject it in favour of what to us just sounds like magic. You instead expect us to believe that the earth is less than 10,000 years old, everything has always existed in its current form, and that we have to believe in something without evidence.

  • @SeanACampbell ....NO, I do not expect you to believe the earth is LESS THAN 10,000 years old. I am simply telling you, I at one time believed the earth was millions of years old, just like you. Through my fellowship with Christ....i understand now that I was wrong. The good news is...you will one day find out the truth. The bad news is...when you get this TRUTH, your eternity will already be set and is unchangeable.

  • @bornagain001 "Through my fellowship with Christ....i understand now that I was wrong."

    So you heard a voice in your head telling you that all scientists and scientific evidence were wrong? And you chose to believe it? Just asking.

  • @BailiffQuimby ...no voice in the head. God speaks to the heart. It's sad that your own conscience has never spoken to you about anything in your life. Prisons are full of people just like you with NO CONSCIENCE.

  • @bornagain001 "Prisons are full of people just like you with NO CONSCIENCE."

    Prisons are full of Christians. They are severely over-represented in prison, while atheists are proportionately under-represented. Anyhow, did I say or do something to convince you that I have no conscience, or are you so desperate for arguments that the best you can do is insult my character with zero supporting evidence?

  • @BailiffQuimby ...."Prisons are full of Christians."

    REALLY? I minister to men who are in prison. The only Christians who are there are those who CAME TO CHRIST after they were incarcerated. You said we hear voices....a CONSCIENCE is also a voice. If you have never heard it....YOU HAVE NO CONSCIENCE and are a good candidate for prison.

  • @bornagain001 That is clearly not the case. If christianity reduced crime, why does the US have 1 in 34 people either in prison or on parole, when it has an extremely religious population.

  • @bornagain001 "The only Christians who are there are those who CAME TO CHRIST after they were incarcerated."

    Clarification, most people who go into prison are christians upon arrival. They might not be born-agains or whatever flavour of christian you consider to be "real christians", but they are christians. They are theists who believe Jesus is god.

  • "Clarification, most people who go into prison are christians upon arrival."

    Since you made the claim...SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE!!!

  • @bornagain001 Well you can believe that, it doesn't make it correct or convincing.

  • @bornagain001 I'm sorry, I really do not mean to cause any offense to you, and again I apologise if I have. But for people who do not believe in god, the things you propose really sound ridiculous to us. When you say we are going to burn in hell, to give you the perspective it would be the same as if someone came up to you and said there is a magical fairy who says if you don't believe in him, when you eventually die you are going to get sucked into fairy land and hit with sticks forever.

  • @SeanACampbell ..."I really do not mean to cause any offense to you"  No offense taken....considering I was walking in YOUR SHOES just a few years ago. I certainly can't be offended by your rejection of Christ since I did it for 55 years.

  • @bornagain001 That threat just really does not hold any weight with us.

    Now when you quote the bible, to us it is like quoting a harry potter book or some other fiction and saying "Well in the good book it says if you don't believe in Zeus then you are a fool". What is said in the bible really holds no weight with us.

    Now I understand that to you the book is the end all, it must seem powerful and meaningful. But to an outsider, what the book says is next to irrelevant unless it contains proof.

  • @bornagain001 Ultimately, there are a lot of religions out there with a lot of books they think support them. All the followers of those religions feel they have had a personal experience with their gods. They all seem to think that they can see the hand of god working in their life.

    The problem is, they all contradict each other. They cannot all be right. But they can all be wrong.

    The only way to know is if there is evidence, as clearly "faith" can be misleading - or there wouldn't be many.

  • @bornagain001 I understand that from your perspective, all the other people following other religions are mislead. But the people from those other religions also have the same opinion about you.

    Saying that they are just mislead using quotes from your particular book does not hold any additional ground.

    The bigger problem comes along when your faith not only requires me to believe without evidence, but also reject evidence which contradicts it (evolution etc.)

  • @SeanACampbell ....as I said earlier....unless the Holy Spirit DRAWS YOU to God, you will remain in the same spiritual darkness until you die. God KNOWS your heart better than you do. God knows already if you care to know Him. I don't know you but I see nothing in your conversation that indicates an interest in speaking with God. This same Holy Spirit DRAWS Hindu's, Buddhists, Muslims and atheists. It has nothing to do with what I say or what evidence you receive.

  • @bornagain001 And again I say, what a nice god you have there. Creates humans who require evidence to believe in his existence, fails to provide evidence of his existence, selectively draws people seemingly by random lottery and shows them evidence, and then chastises the rest for not seeing what isn't there.

    And as for an interest in speaking with god, well seeing that I don't think there is a god I can't exactly be interested in speaking with him. Thats like being interested in tooth fairy.

  • @SeanACampbell ...God CREATED YOU for HIS PURPOSE. Your life has no value to Him outside of that purpose. God is not coming to you so don't wait for Him.

  • @bornagain001 Another statement not supported, therefore no reason to believe it any more than anything else you have claimed.

  • @bornagain001 Now you can quote from the bible, but I don't believe the bible itself has ever been shown to be accurate.

  • @bornagain001 It is fundamentally important to understand that really the only thing which seperates two species is how similar they are to each other. No one believes that a chicken laid an egg one day and out popped a lizard. That would be ridiculous, but that is seemingly what you seem to think evolution is about.

    If you get two groups of the same creature, and stop gene flow between then (for example, a geographical barrier) then they will evolve independently from each other.

  • @bornagain001 Given sufficient time, because their genes are not being shared, those many small changes over time will result in life forms which are every different from each other.

    The only difference is time. And we have witnessed creatures developing features which did not exist before, for example the nylon eating bacteria. Nylon is a man made product, bacteria could not consume it previously. But if you put bacteria in a nylon rich environment they eventually develop this characteristic.

  • "Given sufficient time, because their genes are not being shared, those many small changes over time will result in life forms which are every different from each other."

    Some people make MONEY their God. Some people make JOB their God. You have placed YOUR FAITH in TIME and CHANCE. They are the two Gods you worship. Your entire belief system is built around them. Unfortunately, they are a poor substitute for the real thing.

  • @bornagain001 Well no, I haven't placed my faith in time in change. I simply think that the best way to determine what is likely to be true or untrue would depend on what evidence there is in support of that position.

    If there is no evidence in support of a given position then I won't hold that position. It is simply the case that I would not have a valid reason to hold a position which cannot be supported.

    Science has been shown to make accurate and reliable predictions. Religion has not.

  • ."I simply think that the best way to determine what is likely to be true or untrue would depend on what evidence there is in support of that position."

    Do you think believe the HOLOCAUST actually happened or is it all made up? Do you think all the pictures, old movie reels, personal testimonies and the Trials at Nuremberg is enough evidence. And yet in 2012 there are people who reject all that evidence. YOU ARE NO DIFFERENT.

  • @bornagain001 I don't believe I ever said that the holocaust didn't happen?

    Based on the evidence available, it seems quite certain that it did happen. Of course, there is always a chance that we are incorrect, but the greater the evidence the less likely that this is the case.

    I don't find peoples rejection of evidence surprising, you yourself clearly reject or ignore a lot of the evidence which is available in support of basic scientific theories which are well established and accepted.

  • @bornagain001 Our entire body is just the result of our genetic blueprint and if we change the blueprint the body which results changes. Most mutations are neutral, some are good and some are bad. It is simply that "good mutations" (ones which allow us to better survive in our environment that those without the mutation) stick around and "bad mutations" (ones which make us less likely to survive in our environment) tend not to.

    But whether a mutation is good or bad depends on the environment.

  • @bornagain001 For example, a mutation which makes us hairier would may be beneficial in a cold environment, but not beneficial in a warm environment.

    But now generally mutations are not considered the end all of evolution, and may have more to do with the ability of genes to be turned on and off rather than just their changing.

  • @bornagain001 Now you can assert it is a myth all you like, just as you assert that god exists and makes all the various demands you happen to believe. But what you happen to think is correct and incorrect is practically irrelevant - more important is which idea is better supported by observation and evidence.

    As it happens, the evolutionary theory is well supported and the "Creation" hypothesis is not. As I said, science is not required to find what happens to be convenient to us.

  • I can only point to evidence like all of creation that speaks of design, balance, purpose, beauty, synergistic relationship, etc." That certainly is evidence. Tell me, which of these things does NOT HAVE a design and designers from the evidence your sense gives you?

    A Pencil, a screw driver, flash light, watch, ipod, PDA, laptop computer, space shuttle, a single cell.....and which is more complex?

  • @bornagain001 The reason we know that a pencil is created by a being is simply because there is no natural process by which a pencil could be created. There is a natural process or mechanism by which life can change.

    But let us be clear, the theory of evolution does not deal with how life comes to exist, it only deals with how life changes once it does exist. Abiogenesis deals with the formation of life.

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