Was Clara in Mr. Hoffman's Bed in the Mermaid Princess Chapter of Rule of Rose?

[ninjaman1915]

Mr. Hoffman is just a horny old pervert.

[xHippieChickx]

ive seen this video prior to finishing the game, but i am pretty sure that it is Clara in the bed because in the "good ending" if you go into the headmasters room and read Hoffman's little freak show diary of his, he says that he carried Clara to bed.

[ShayWriter023]

I also heard a rumor that Mr.Hoffman performed an abortion on Clara because someone noted that if you see on her stomach you would see that she has a scar, a c-section. I don't know if this was true or not. It is a question I really want to find out.

[jennyjoe798]

Did you see how the Mermaid boss at the end there, when you showed and stated that she had no clothes and only the rope to cover her legs and waist, that she had blonde hair. Looked like Wendy at that point...maybe a hidden message about Wendy too? I'm not sure but wanted to point that out. Or was it lighting that made her hair look blonde, but either way, at that point it looked like Wendy. And who did the mermaid doll belong to I wonder to begin with...? Love your vids by the way!

[iAmJoFlo]

Your voice sounded like my docter :)

[Kaldaryn]

....god your voice. its like. sex with sex.

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

@Kaldaryn Wow! Thanks! That made me feel good to hear!

[RageBird113]

Simple, Hoffmann is a pedophile, using the two oldest girls Clara and Diana as his play things.

[Lightice1]

@RageBird113 A pedophile would be interested in children, while Hoffman only takes interest in teenagers with womanly attributes. He is simply a coersive rapist. Though there is no indication that he would have yet done anything worse than inappropriate touching with Diana. Clara is the one who endures the bulk of his attentions, by the looks of it. Since hurting others with your delusions is a theme of the game, I assume that Hoffman imagines that they're totally on board with it.

[rorhg0]

@Lightice1 She is underage, therefore he is still a pedophile

[Lightice1]

@rorhg0 Not so. Pedohpilia means attraction to prepubescent children. People who are specifically attracted to teenagers are ephebophiles. We don't know whether Mr. Hoffman is an ephebophile, or whether he is just going for the only person he can corerce for sex.

Also, 16 is the age of consent in the UK and most of the USA. You can have a consensual relationship in most of the world with a 16-year old without legal reprecussions.

[glhmtv]

Maybe Mr. Hoffmann abused Clara, but Diana, for trying to be the mature girl with some sexual connotations, envied their strange relationship. That could make her cause some intentional damage to Clara, like making her sick somehow.

[Ferrinas1]

omg you have the most sexyest voice ever :O

[Jimilification]

2:24 I screamed like that!!! x_X

I also go "Hi-Ya!"

[fdgecrckr]

also, this was in the games unused audio files

Clara: "Forgive me, please, please! I won't do it again! Help me! I'm all alone... all alone... It hurts! I don't want to be alone! Nothing I do makes it better! "

[fdgecrckr]

my theory was (while playing it) that he had raped her as well as molested her, there is a cut down her stomach which made me think she had an abortion? as well as the vomiting and they way she kind of hobbles when she walks... She is also seen wiping a spot on the end of her bed in one scene, perhaps signifying she had done something "dirty" there? Also the part with the drawer.. we're never allowed to see what was in it, maybe something to give evidence to her abuse?

[NenaGamer]

I fucking love ur voiceeeeeeeeeeeee

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

@NenaGamer

Thank you! You made my day.

[Charmcaser1]

there is a theory that he abuse the girls including jennifer, this is slightly known but how the enemies will jump on to jenifer and hold on arround breasts does kinda imply that maybe at one point jennifer was touched by mr hoffman, however, during the mermaid during the cutscene after the boss hoffman almost snarls at jennifer, which could mean, like all the other charictures, that he hates her, or the fact that jennifer stands up for herself she may have told about hoffmans activies

[erinsteffens]

Ummm.......rape?

[animegrl105]

hes a friggin pedo

[jamPrinny11]

They recycled the bed XD

[abracadaverous]

I think the mermaid's attack of barfing caustic acid may also be significant, bulimia and other eating disorders being prevalent among molestation victims.

[dOlli3cOutur3]

@abracadaverous

there was also a theory that clara was pregnant...

[chelseaangelandollie]

That part of the game is the MOST disturbing to me! I mean, Clara has NO clothes on! The rope covers her waist down to her ankles to make her look like a mermaid. Yet, the only thing covering her boobs to make it "apropriet" to sell, is long cut lines covered in dry blood. Plus, the game hints that Mr. Hoffman sexually abused Clara a LOT. So yeah, I'm sure Jinnifer just accendentlly caught them in the act one day. (which is over the top gross T_T) Now why Diana was there? I have no idea.

[RandomNarutoHousePro]

Wait. is he tying the rope? I mean, he is moving his hand around like he is tying a rope! could this be what he is doing?

[kairilollypop]

@RandomNarutoHousePro :D good theory

[KanameShito]

Just throwing this out for the debate but her stomach has a scar that looks like a c-section. 0.o

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

@tylene1000

See my "How to Transform Brown into a Chair" video for the answer to that.

[Ekidna2000]

..hmm, maybe there's also a "lame" theory.. when u start the chapter, with reading the story, it says at some point "who would ever become such a ugly woman" (mermaid isn't married).. maybe, clara is "the mermaid", it also says that, and the first time u try enter the room, mr. Hoffman is there, caressing her..

could it maybe be, that she had been molestred, or whatever it's called, and then is "ugly"? since she isnt' "married", but probably has been used for more adult actions..?

[Thatswhatshesaid446]

I don't have an answer yet, so I'm going to just start typing and see what comes out. Mr. Hoffman is asking about a mess, and is blaming Diana. The mess seems to be the lack of fish in the aquarium. The fish, in a way, was Clara. Maybe they tried hiding Clara and it made Hoffman angry? I have no clue :P (Now to read the other theories and cry at how stupid mine is! :D)

[MrsKittykatt009]

uh...what was happening at 0:54 EXACTLY?

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

@MrsKittykatt009

I don't know of any way to know that.

That is the nature of the game.

Players are shown things that will puzzle them if they think about them. And no absolute answer can be found. But clues can be found from which one can construct a possible answer. The more clues that can be applied to the construction of a possible answer, the better one can feel about that answer. But exactness or certainty may not ever come.

[MrsKittykatt009]

@RuleOfRoseMysteries hmmm, yes, you DO make a very good point....

[gizelbelcoot]

@RuleOfRoseMysteries

hoffman was molesting everyone, including clara, game had plenty sexual undertones, that scene was left for imagination, beaten to give blowjob , since we dont see any legs of girl

[viviadiesdreaming]

It's always looked to me like Mr. Hoffman is manipulating the ropes binding Clara during the initial "peeking through the keyhole" animation. Tying them, perhaps. You can see the ropes swinging in silhouette against the wall. I've also wondered: Who slams the door on Jennifer? Whoever it is has a very distinctly female giggle, which I don't remember hearing at any other of the many times throughout the game she gets locked in a room. I'm guessing Wendy-as-Joshua.

[boiper]

I learned something recently that makes me want to mention it here.

When extreme type 3 clitoridectomies are performed, sometimes afterwards the girls legs are tied together for healing. With the theory of that Clara had been perform an Abortion on by Hoffman, it could be symbolism why her legs are tied together. Maybe - throwing out ideas, but Maybe he wrapped her legs up afterwards for healing purposes? Or Jennifer imagined as such because Clara refused to spread her legs (afterwards)?

[YlicecLyric]

@RuleofRoseMysteries- Hello! I wasn't quite sure where to place my comment on this, but I have a question- Before you go down that little lane to where the Mermaid Boss is, Diana says, "It's this way, I'm sure of it." Or something like that.. And then we follow her and watch where Mr.Hoffman was "caressing" Clara...Was Diana there in any way? After all, she was there in the cutscene right after...Please give me your thoughts on this.

[LadyYaoiGirl]

0:30 are those noises for a struggle? maybe Hoffman and Clara...

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

@LadyYaoiGirl

It's the sound of the fish imps fighting with Brown. See my YouTube video "Tactics: Groups of Fish Imps in Rule of Rose".

[LadyYaoiGirl]

@RuleOfRoseMysteries Brown? isn't that risky? he is not a fighting dog, like Hewie.(a much practical dog for this type of games, if you ask me. I can understand why Brown doesn't defend himself)

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

@LadyYaoiGirl

Brown is immortal during gameplay-battles.

[RandomNarutoHousePro]

@LadyYaoiGirl Wait, are you saying that Brown is like Hewie? or unlike? Because without Hewie's fighting ability, Haunting Ground would be impossible, because then you would get the really bad ending every time you play. Just wondering. :P

[LadyYaoiGirl]

@RandomNarutoHousePro unlike. I love Hewie! and his fighting abilities!

I'm just saying that if Brown had that ability the Rule of Rose would...a little less torture. like it's gameplay is. Uu

[RandomNarutoHousePro]

@LadyYaoiGirl that is so true! I love Hewie because without him the story and gameplay would become much more complicated. or like Rule of Rose controls. :D

[boiper]

I think the fact that the mermaid doll drops onto his bed is proof all in itself that she was there the whole time?

[TaylorMccanzie]

What's the music that is playing on this chapter?

Rule of Rose is the game that i most love.

[SD42klkl]

owo dude i have to say one thing...........UR VOICE IS COOL FOR DOING THIS STUFF!!!!!!

[fatalboy46]

SHE was in his bed, lots of times, sorry but its true XD, its just that im too direct, hauuuu i feel so bad for clara... hate hoffman, but love tennis costume of jennifer

[azraelangelofred]

Quite frankly, I think it's blatantly obvious that there was some pedophilia right there. You did point out all the reasons, but I think anyone that doubts it is a bit...well, either in denial or uneducated in such matters.

[Sempumaru]

I have a question about Clara... the whole game is about Jennifer's memories right? Do you think that Jennifer might have seen Clara throwing up... probably because Mr.Hoffman got her pregnant (and the reason they had to leave the orphanage)? It might be a stupid question, but it kind of came to my mind.

[LoffleMe]

The cuts back and forth between the mermaid scene and the headmaster's room is just funny. "*DRAMATIC MUSIC* RAAAA--" *silence*

[HappyRikku]

OMG! Your voice made me jump!! O_o You have the perfect voice for an horror game did you know that? XD lol Anyway it was really interesting thanks ^^

[AlmaWasHere]

I've never played, though I want to, and what I've learned is, isn't Mr. Hoffman like a Pedo or something?

[momijiDkumonkey]

Oh, is that so? gee, thanks. :D

[AtheistPrincess14]

The beds being the same is way more easily explained by the fact that game designers re-use models and textures ALL THE TIME. They have only a certain budget of space for such things and must be economical about it. I've seen the same crates in Left4Dead that are in HalfLife2, that doesn't mean they're connected, lol. Especially with console game designers, saving space is top priority!

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

@AtheistPrincess14

I have indeed seen what you have pointed out, in Rule of Rose, with certain distinctive cracks on the wall that have gotten used multiple times rather than being designed fresh for each use. But I do not agree that simple re-use is the likely explanation in this case. There are multiple clues that can be fitted together in a pattern showing inappropriate behavior by Mr. Hoffman. This "clue" has re-enforcement from other "clues" pointing in the same direction.

[momijiDkumonkey]

there's no doubt mr. hoffman was a pedophile, and clara was raped by him. I heard she got pregnat with his child, and with his own tools, he scraped the child out of clara. Im having trouble getting proof Of my theroy though...

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

@momijiDkumonkey

It is probably too ambitious to hope for "proof", but you can find most of the discussion of the evidence that might point in that direction by reading three blog-posts of mine and their comment threads (at wwwdotruleofrosemysteriesdotco­m): "The Sick Bay Drawer Mystery" (Oct. 1, 2007), "The Frightened Princess Mystery" (Oct. 27, 2007), and "Mutilated Clara" Nov, 26, 2007).

[silent12hil12]

@momijiDkumonkey Hi there now that you say this is true that in the beging of the game when you go up to the attic there are some medica tools and plastic gloves full of blood that make sense about your theroy... And I really think she was raped by Mr Hoffman

[momijiDkumonkey]

@silent12hil12 yeah I eyed that too, the gloves and blood everywhere. Maybe my theroy is true, and maybe that's why clara is so distant

[silent12hil12]

@momijiDkumonkey Yeah that explains her attitude, and the way she almost fear Mr. Hoffman... And in the beging of the game when you try to talk to her she says: "How dirty..." in the beging I thought she was talking about Jennifer... But what if she talkling about something else?

[ChrysLT]

@momijiDkumonkey Hmm now that you mention it... I always wondered what the bloody tools in the attic were...

[angelix]

I am not surprised that she never speaks about the scenes with Hoffman in the last chapter...I mean, that is something that a child might not fully understand; and she might not think it's a good thing to talk about, especially since the only adults she interacted with were Gregory and Martha (who continually calls her a filthy wretch, and thus would probably just dismiss her).

[Aquamaryann]

well it is not very hard to tell, that the "Mermaid Room" IS also actually a version of the Airship's "VIP Lounge" and thus also the "Headmaster's Room" in the orphenage. (All rooms with Aquarium)

But on the other hand, what about the Sick Bay? Isn't it also Dr Hoffmans /Headmaster's Room? And if so, could it be Clara was in his bed for that reason? When the player sees her for the first time, she is also in the Sick Bay with Hoffman...

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

@Aquamaryann

No. The Sick Bay of the airship has its counterpart in the Sick Bay of the orphanage (which is upstairs from the Headmaster's room). Jennifer travels from the Headmasters Room, up the stairs, to the Sick Bay at the very beginning of my video "A Sex Scene in "The Funeral" Chapter of Rule of Rose?" Check it out.

[Aquamaryann]

@RuleOfRoseMysteries

ooh yes you're right ^^ i forgot that, yes there was a sick bay in the orphenage.

ok gonna check it out.

[WillTheUnhuggable]

Did you notice how there are 3 dead bodies in the attic? one to the head master, one to the maid(I think she was a maid, cant remeber it all that much) and a smaller one which could possibly belong to Clara. Hope this was helpful ^^

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

@WillTheUnhuggable

I've never noticed any bodies in the attic, nor have I ever heard such a claim before. If you can make a video of them, please do. If you can't, please give detailed instructions on where to find them.

[Freako89]

@RuleOfRoseMysteries I remember there being bodies as well! I thought it was of the 3 adults though... Idk where it was though..

[Arrayama]

it sounds like the bed is shaking before you go in

[likeastarbaby]

well...its kind of obvious isnt it...mr hoffman was clearly a pedophile, and chose clara to be his toy...jennifer repressed a memory of walking in on mr hoffman sexually assualting clara when she was tied to the bed, and thats what the 'mermaid' scene represents.

[tobiswife]

i havent played the game but it looks like it could be true.clara as a boss looks very lovely i mean as in the creepyness and such

[TheLegend1245]

Mr.Hoffman seems to be a weirdo.

[tipsywench]

At the risk of sounding very, very crude, could it be possible that Clara is throwing up from being forced to participate in fellatio? With her legs bound as they are and the way she was on her knees in another scene, perhaps actual penetration never occured. I think the pregnancy/morning sickness scenario is by far the most likely, but considering that Hoffman seems intelligent enough to want to avoid impregnating his wards, I think this at least could be a possibility.

Still...ugh.

[KrakenOfTheSouth]

Sorry to post another comment, i just wanted to tell you what i think the connection is between those 2 scenes. Mr Hoffman is just a paedophile. i have always thought that, just because of how he was touching clara- but maybe not even that, because that kind of just seemed like he was trying to comfort her, but the scene with diana...

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

@KrakenOfTheSouth

wrote: "...that kind of just seemed like he was trying to comfort her..."

~

That is probably why the true significance of the scene went unappreciated for so long.  The fact that Clara is in Mr. Hoffman's bed, and not in her own, is crucial in leading us to a non-innocent interpretation of what is happening there.

[KrakenOfTheSouth]

2:50-3:16 lol i was laughing the whole time... just keeps cutting back and forth- *calm* - "wooooohhhhhh!!!" *jennifer gets landed on top of and falls down* - *calm*, *slowly roaming the room* - "wooohhhhh!!" - *calm* - "woohh!!" - *calm* - "woohh!!" - *calm*

[TheCandie87]

I was reading more about this boss battle myself; I really wanted to understand the symbolism of this scene. Clara is hung upside down, which could represent a present problem in real life, where as the rope might represent being bound and something out of control. The rope could also mean Clara being at the mercy of bad judgment.

[TheCandie87]

And interesting enough, I found out that women who dream about being mermaids might have a fear of sex! I think that would describe Clara's case very well and explains why Clara is seen as a mermaid. As for the fish... it could represent conception, as does Clara's vomiting. But I also think the fish could represent insight, like Jennifer is perhaps finally understanding the true nature of her memories. The old memories are finally being brought to the surface, like fish being caught.

[TheCandie87]

I also agree with SilverSiana that the ropes could also indicate Clara's thoughts about sex; her being a mermaid, fearing sex, and wanting to bind her legs shut to avoid it.

[Pawkit]

About the hanging:

Jennifer probably came in the room one day after witnessing the activities, Clara's morning sickness, and found Clara in the middle of hanging herself. Probably to run away from the shame. Yet she may have been struggling as she did it hence the wailing or she cried so loud after the pregnancy that would be the wailing thing. The scene shadow does look like somone hung themselves.

[SilverSiana]

Also, on something you were saying in another video about Clara ignoring Jennifer in "The Funeral" chapter because she had her own agenda. Maybe the reason why Clara was so cold towards Jennifer was because she knew what was going on between Clara and Hoffman and Clara was scared she would tell the others.

And maybe that's why Jennifer sees her as formidable mermaid princess, not because she was ever actually violent towards her, but because the secret itself was frightening.

[SilverSiana]

The way the ropes are wound tightly around Clara's lower body feels strangely like a literal way of "keeping her legs closed". It does seem to suggest that she was sexually active and maybe she regretted it.

Not saying she actually tied herself up, but maybe that's how Jennifer perceived her as being remorseful.

[krnXplaya202]

(Building upon my previous comment) Also, aren't there sounds emanating from the room right before Jennifer enters for the boss battle and before she looks inside? They appear to be from some kind of struggle or something else.....

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

@krnXplaya202

One would have to kill all of the imps outside of the room (which are making a lot of noise) in order to determine if there were noises emanating from within the room. But I've always just run past those imps instead of killing them all off.

[krnXplaya202]

Hey there, I just recently finished Rule of Rose and I've been checking out your Rule of Rose Mysteries blog (fantastic articles by the way). I don't know if this has any relevance or validity, but considering the possibility that Clara died, as hinted by the Mermaid Princess storybook and Jennifer's comments, I felt that the way Clara was under the sheets reminded me of how the deceased are often covered up with white sheets in hospitals and mortuaries. Is it possible she died in Hoffman's bed?

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

@krnXplaya202

So little has been told to us, or has been figured out, about what happened to Clara, that it is hard to rule out any possibility at this point.

[WillTheUnhuggable]

@krnXplaya202 Hey, I thought I'd just like to say that I agree she did die someway or another. Also did you notice how there are 3 dead bodies in the attic? one to the head master, one to the maid(I think she was a maid, cant remeber it all that much) and a smaller one which could possibly belong to Clara. Hope this was helpful ^^

[chatycheetah22]

I think that Hoffman abused most of the girls that way. The way Diana acts afterwards calling it distgusting might suggest it was something more than just reprimandation.

[Squishy876]

Clara must've been in his bed and Jennifer saw her and Clara got sick on her...or something?

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

The vomit-attack of the Clara-boss is a mystery that has led to various speculations about it, including the possibility that Hoffman got Clara pregnant and that Jennifer had witnessed her having morning-sickness.

[Squishy876]

yes but why would she hang from the ceiling? there must be a significance to that.

[KrakenOfTheSouth]

@RuleOfRoseMysteries i always thought that she threw up everywhere due to motion sickness, from all that up and down and up and down

[RaguraX]

We should consider that it's possible the beds are nearly identical because, well, game developers have a budget and it wouldn't be so strange to use the same bed model for multiple instances, but slightly differently skinned. And the hanging upside down looks more like a boss mechanic to me, in this case. However, I would still say there's at least a chance you're right about her being in the room, or him at least fantasizing about it. As for visual evidence, there does not seem to be anyone.

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

I understand how you can think there might be a meaningless reason for the identical bed sets considering them in isolation from other evidence. However, on my blog I've shown at length that the airship world is a transformation of the orphanage world and that the game-makers repeatedly show us this by replicating furnishings, wallpaper patterns, etc. In this context, we mustn't ever assume that such matching is meaningless. I'll make some videos that'll show these transformations of rooms.

[ErsatzJO]

but why she is pictures as a mermaid?! what a mermaid has to do with it? why tied udpside down? why she'd be evil to jannifer? WHY? WHY?!

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

Lots of mysteries indeed.

As for why Clara is depicted as a mermaid, some relevant blog-posts of mine are:

"Clara and Hoffman: Mermaid and Hare?" November 25, 2008.

"The Unused Mermaid-related Statements of Clara." June 12, 2008.

[DJTeddy]

This may be a bit of a stretch here but the lighting of the room at the end seems like it separates the room. The lighted portion where Jennifer stands is her accepting that something terrible DID happen to Clara in that room, while the dark portion where Diana stands is her recalling Hoffman's manner in dealing with Diana, and how he might have had intended to do something to Diana.

[shikakimushrooms]

you're voice sounds so eerie =[ Its perfect

[Masqueradia]

I notice that Hoffman disappears before we enter the room. I find this interesting as there are no other exits out of "The Mermaid Room", but there are out of "The Headmaster's Room".

Also, the way his hand is moving... if her feet are at the other end, as we see at the start of the movie (it appears to me) isn't he feeling near her hips?

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

Very true about the exits.

I think that Jennifer's view of Hoffman at the bedside was surely a truer memory of events in the Headmaster's room than the later view of Clara... for one thing, there is no way to hoist Clara up like that in the Headmaster's room. I expect that the later view is either more symbolic or is more confused with events that occurred elsewhere.

[KisaragiZeet]

I think the idea that Clara vomits as an attack would be a direct connection to morning sickness

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

That is one of the very interesting possibilities that commenter-makers have been discussing on my Rule of Rose Mysteries blog-site. It might be part of the explanation for why Clara is referred to as "the frightened princess".

[ChunLi3]

I don't know why but what you just said rang true to me...after all it is a saying that when somebody dreams of fish it supposed to mean someone is pregnant and there were a lot of floating fish in this chapter?! I won't say that Hoffman molested her but I believe its possible that there was something going on between the two.

[RoyalScarlet01]

Wow the beds are freakishly similar, other then the rumpled sheets in the Mermaid Boss

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

I think that the beds/lamps/tables/pillows are deliberately "freakishly" similar. I think that the game-makers want us to realize that Jennifer has NOT been completely open with us in the "Once Upon A Time" chapter, and that there are mysteries for us to figure out on our own... mysteries that the game-makers HAVE left us clues to piece together.

[RoyalScarlet01]

I totally agree, but I wonder why did the lamp appear in the boss battle? Was it significant in her past? Is it supposed to help us link the similarities of Hoffman's room to the area of the boss battle? Or is it simply their to provide illumination I wonder 0.0

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

I think that the game-makers felt that they needed to place multiple features of similarity to help us "get it". Even with all these features of similarity (headboard, lamp, lampstand, and pillow) I didn't make the connection for a long time, and I don't recall seeing anybody else make the connection on any forums before I first wrote of it.

[RoyalScarlet01]

That's what I figured, because, despite how truly similar they are, it's really hard, as you said, to link them both together

[TurboBabyPuncher]

You vomit videos at such a fast speed. Again, this video is full of very interesting stuff, and useful insight from you.

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

Well, I guess I should consider myself fortunate that you didn't imply a worse orifice from which my videos emerge. :D

[TurboBabyPuncher]

Mas o menos, si.

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

The noises are from imps... Brown is probably annoying them (otherwise I expect he would be with Jennifer).

Rather than kill the imps, I just had Jennifer run past them. Maybe I'll use the footage of that later for a short tactical demonstration of how to deal with crowds of imps.

[MangaEngel]

Well, I think, Clara was indeed in his bed.

Not only the lamp or the board are in both beds the same, even the pillows are exactly in the same position, on the right edge and not properly straight.

And of course I know the theory that Eleonor and Meg "rescued" Diana from getting herself also in Hoffmans bed by making him angry for stealing the fish.

[RuleOfRoseMysteries]

Good observation about the pillow!