Good Q&A. I learned a lot on the core of the LDS church.
what strikes me thought is to hear the Christians present laugh at the "Mormon silliness" but there religion is as silly and equally riddled with wrong and "silly" information.
i really dont know why people watch this to find out if the mormon church is true.
you really should attend a mormon church for once to see for yourself. this really is sad to see because i know soooo manny goood people that come from the mormon church and i mean alot. i know there may be people going through tough times but everyone is human and through jesus christ all mankind may be saved by the gift of the holy ghost.
This guy only wants to confuse people. Someone asked what the Gospel is. Look in 3 Ne. 27:21 (D&C 33:12; D&C 39:6). The Gospel focuses on Christ and His mission. If anyone wants a better explanation of the Gospel, please let me know. Someone said the leaders worship Satan. Give me a break. Don't lie. The same Biblical Jesus is the Jesus we worship.
The Gospel is as the mormon guy said,"repent, believe in christ, be baptized, endure to the end." Jesus commanded that, he didn't command to believ in him as their savior, no ordinances equals lack of jesus on the earth. Ordiances, equals priesthood authority. Jesus always commandmed his apostles to preach and baptize those that believe unto repentance. PERIOD
Mr. Red shirt doesn't know God, unlessyou have seen God and met him you don't know who he is, so how can anyone say joseph smith and all the others that saw God are wrong.
@conmuchogusto007: The 'He must be a closet sinner/adulterer' is why he left defense. He did tell you why he was excommunicated. He read the factual history that does not jive with his honest conscience. Intellectually honesty is not tolerated in the LDS theology: Look up Polyandry. And as for your implied, "Leave the church but don't leave it alone"...After an entire LIFE being invested into something, you can't just turn it off like a lightswitch. That's a disingenuous 'self serving thought.
Lyndon, you didn't tell us why you were excommunicated, after 40 years you don't have the appearance of mormons I know, one of my employees became untrustworthty, I had to let him go, now he works for the competition and I was right in firing him, is that your condition?, if it is then the church was right in kicking you out, nobody can trust a person who made sacred promises to God and then disregard this promise, if the church caused you so much pain, why continue talking about the church.
@conmuchogusto007 I am in a unique position to help others leaving Mormonism. Through video, written word ("Standing for Something More"), and in person, reaching out to others and letting them know they are not alone brings me tremendous joy, unsurpassed in my life experience to date. Every day is a gift. If I had joined a gang under peer and family unity pressures and promised to commit murder, would I be wrong to back out? I think you see the metaphor.
Mormons believe in the Christ of Matthew 3:16. Christ is baptised by John, the Holy Ghost descends in the sign of a dove, and the voice of the Father speaks from heaven. Three separate individuals, all united in one purpose. Luke and Paul refer to it as the Godhead. The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.
I watched the video again and it still doesn't make sense what the pastor says at the end. When did the Church present Jesus Christ as a sinful figure? For some reason this just doesn't make sense to me.
I don't think he said "sinful"...I think he said "central". LDS present Jesus as a "central" figure, but people don't realize he isn't thought of the same way as most other Christian religions.
I don't think he said "sinful"...I think he said "central". LDS present Jesus as "central" to the religion, but he is not thought of the same as other Christian religions.
There is definitely some good information in these video segments. I am glad their are still people out there who question their beliefs and are searching for the truth behind it all. I am still searching for the truth behind it all as well, and will probably not see everything until it is revealed by God or until more evidence comes to the surface.
Everything in the video was great research, except for the last "observation" that was made by the pastor that was somewhat contradictory. At what point did the LDS church start teaching that Jesus Christ is a sinner? My understanding was that Christ made an atonement for all of us as sinners, because he was perfect( without sin), so that we might be able to repent and return into the father's presence someday. I have never heard that before and I was raised as LDS.
Lyndon, thank you very much. This was the beginning for me out of mormonism. It hurt, but just for a while...since you realize you have been hood-winged. Thanks again Lyndon!!
Magnus - hearing about your experience and others is so heart-warming. It really stings to realize you have given a good part of your life and substance supporting a myth.
BYU4U... When a person outside of Mormonism talks about the "Christian Church", he is talking about the "body of Christ" which isunderstood to be the people who follow Christ and his teachings that are from the biblical representation of those teachings. They do not accept Mormonism as part of that body because of all of Mormons' beliefs about Jesus and his ministry that are not supported biblically. Paul warned the people to beware of different gospels from the one taught by the apostles
and most christians find mormonism to be VERY different from the teachings found in the New Testament. So like it or not, Mormon's will likely never be embraced by biblical Christians. If you take the time to listen to what biblical Christians have to say about the matter, you might gain some insight as to why that lack of acceptance exists. Good luck, and God Bless...
Christ said he who is not baptized by water or by the Spirit cannot enter the Kingdom of God. Christ was an ordinance guy.
If you want to prove the LDS in error, you have to debunk the doctrine of continuing revelation. The last time this was attempted, to turn revelation into a solecism, materialism and atheism were born.
Jesus and Heavenly Father being one and the same is an extra-biblical doctrine of the creeds of Catholicism.
church calling. I was, however to continue to wear the temple garments, PAY A FULL TITHE, and meet with my branch president (I would call him and ask if he ws available but he was often away on business I continued to do these things and when the branch president was being released from his position as branch president he asked to meet with me. He was tearful and apologized for "dropping the ball" to use his words. I told him that I HAD to forgive him but that he should be asking forgiveness..
Thanks for sharing this, Jefferoni007. Real life is so strange, but it can also have rewards pop up in very strange ways. I hope things are going well for you now.
(sorry this message may seem choppy because I cant get it all in one comment)..in any event a decision was made that I be disfellowshipped this was in 2002 and I was told by the branch president that he would be working closly with me to "get me back". In the letter it told me what I could and could not do during this time of probation I was to refrain from taking the sacrament, saying public prayers, giving talks, holding a current temple recommend, sustaining church officers or serving in a ..
all of these actions I did were to mask the extreme pain and sense of loss I felt when my wife left me for another man. I decided to return to church and as a result of me wanting to "do the right thing" come back to the fold etc I had a meeting with my branch president, he set a time for a counsel to hear me. I met in a cramped room with men I didnt know (because I had relocated to another province) and poured my heart out to these men. A decision was made that I be disfellowshipped..
Im surprised I sat through all 7 episodes but glad I did. I was disfellowshipped in 2007 "as a result of conduct unbecomming a member of the church". My wife who I married in the temple had moved in with another man and asa result I made some dicisions that according to the church I shouldn't have. I partied a little too much and had "relations" (to use terminology from the movie Nutty Professor) with women I had met while I was out and about. My disfelowshipment was to last for one year...
As insightful as this discussion was, these people still don't have a very clear idea of the LDS view of Jesus. The LDS Jesus is virtually identical to that of Christians, just a bit more complex. Mormons DO believe that Jesus was the God of the Old Testament. Mormons believe that Jesus was the creator and redeemer of the world, that there is no other way to reach heaven except through Him, etc. It was clear from some of the comments that these people see a bigger difference than there is.
i take that back correction i would say more likly the guy is a christian in the begin with took her to a event and the other one is an actual mormon but in active the one who has the long brown hair and blue denim jean long sleeved jacket white decent is who i am talking about. The other guy is besides her with a beanie on his head i would say he was never mormon but the other chick is. Since mormons mostly have more women then men in there wards most of the time.
you got too young people i noticed who are in there they looked to be former members of jesus christ of ladder day trolls lol. Im glad they made a stand to at least check out x mormons for jesus praise God amen.
I think I figured it out. Mormons are a covenant making people They not only believe, but covenant via baptism, temple, etc with God. These Christians make no covenants (or claim to make them in their hearts) and need no outward ritual, only faith. Read the Bible and decide which is closer to what it teaches. I would be interested in others thoughts.
Great job Lyndon, I'm glad you are taking such a great public forum to bring awareness to everyone about the whole Mormon scam. I got out same time as you, and for the exact same reasons.
That was an interesting series to watch. What Lyndon Lamborn says must scare the Mormon gerontocracy absolutely spitless. That and the fact that church growth has virtually flat lined.
Too bad the sound was so terrible thru out these vids, tho. Very hard to heard.
"facts" hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha! I guess he was there at that time. And how can you believe people who hate that which they protest against, and have turned on. Who can trust a traitor.
Not necessarily. I guess those who fight in our military today were traitors once. And those who serve our country were once traitors. There are appropriate times to break from a tyrannical government or oppressor and move on. But to turn on a system that is as harmless as the LDS Church is pretty low.
I agree with hahnday's "patriot" comment. In addition, each and every LDS member today has been a "traitor" themselves, or have a traitor in their geneology that left Methodism or Catholicism to join Mormonism. They were considered traitors by some in those churches. So... The ability to change one's thinking is THE impetus for progress.
While certainly there are instances in which change is demanded for progress there are times in which steadiness in a course is required.
You talk of individuals being 'traitor' to their own selves, yet everyone always has natures that they are either fighting or fostering, we are always choosing who we will be, thusly there is always some 'nature' some part of ourselves that we are waring against.
Give us an example of "steadiness in a course is required", outside of religion. We are human beings and our progress here, in this reality, is absolutely predicated on the idea that we must change (adapt) or die, based on new and better information. That is the credo of science. Religion is stuck in this "stediness" you mention--except when they are FORCED to change, ie. Galileo. Even THEN, it took MANY years for religionists to accept Galileo's reality. LDS must adapt or die.
I never said "traitor to their own selves", but a "traitor" from the perspective of the self-righteous and judgemental. "Traitor to their owm selves" are YOUR words, not mine.
I don't care that he left, it is sad that he never recieved a witness. Not everyone does for one reason or another. One mans interaction with God is his own and can only be justified by the similar experience of another.
What do you mean he "never recieved a witness"? By his own words he was as much a "believer" as you or most other Mormons. WHY in the world would a SANE person dedicate/sacrifice the money and time required
to be in good standing in church (as apparently, his local leaders believed he was at one time), and do so fully believing he WAS witnessed to. What else would motivate someone to go to those insane lengths, if not belief in doing the "right" thing? Who are YOU to question LL's motives?
Thankfully, there are upwards of 100,000 (and growing) Mormons each year who are doing EXACTLY what LL did (exed or resigning membership).
I think that the mere fact of you being here is prima facie evidence that you DO care. Elder Ballard cares. Tommy(gun) Monson cares (did you hear his GC talk?). The LDS Hierachy
are frantically trying to come up with ways to stop the hemorraging. Good luck to them. Ain't gonna happen.
Wow here you go off on a tirade about questioning motives and then you have the audacity to try and tell me what my motives are for being here. Wow you are a hypocrite. My motives have nothing to do with LL. The only reason I watched this tripe was a trade so a friend would watch a video about Joseph Smith. I only respond because it is seriously disturbing to find that you all who profess to believe in the Bible seem to have missed its central message. Love thy neighbor.
Who is making assumptions here?? Where did I EVER say that I believed in the bibble (or babble)?? As long as you are here (WHATEVER the motive is beside the point), you might as well deal with some of the points in the vid you disagree with, doncha think?--instead of playing the role of a poor, persecuted crybaby. BTW, I think you came out WAY ahead in the "trade" with your friend!! LOL! A video about JS? Gag me with a spoon!!
Mormonism does not teach, contrary to what the pastor said, that Jesus ever sinned. They teach he has never sinned. However, Mormonism does leave the door open for the Father having once possibly sinned. I'd invite anyone here to check out my videos on Mormonism and Christianity.
Christ said that he has done only what he has seen his father in heaven do. Which in Mormon Doctrine only leaves the question if Christ never sinned than the Father must not have sinned, because Christ followed his example purely, and perfectly.
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise aforetold of these days. 25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
You ACTUALLY think that quoting BoM scripture is going to magically change someone's mind, jeffie?? The ONLY one that gets the warm fuzzies from it is you. How about I quote Humpty Dumpty "scripture" to you?--it'll have about the same effect--as they are BOTH fairy tales! HD 2:12 "And all the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again."
Now tell me, jeffie, didn't that just send shivers up the old spine? No?? Well, you just don't have the spirit!!
No I don't think it will change anything. Scripture is just writing on a page it is what you do with that scripture that makes the difference. You can take it or leave it. You are just a hateful spiteful person that wants to attack the LDS church. Have fun and lets see where that gets you.
As I already stated, I "hate" no one. What you LOVE to construe as hate is simply a legit. challenge to LDS doctrine and/or history. It's just gotta be HATE , tho, because if it were not hate, you'd have zero food to feed that persecution complex of yours.
Where did "it" get me? Let's see...it got me a 10% raise. It freed up my Sundays and I no longer have to wear what HAS to be the most BUTT UGLY underwear on the face of the earth. And that's just for starters!! LOL!
" if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." --Rom 8:17
We don't trust in the flesh, that's what you're doing. We don't trust the prophets just because they claim to speak for God, we trust them because God has personally and directly revealed to US that we are to heed their warnings.
Your appeal to 'confidence in the flesh' is laughable because that's EXACTLY what got you where you are presently-you trust in your own capacity to discern truth with just your finite and inherently corrupt philosophies and logic systems.
"Follow the Prophet, Follow the Prophet..." If that song (and others) is not encouraging members to put their trust in flesh, I don't know what is?? "Do what WE do, Trust us", has long been the mantra (stated in many varying ways), of LDS leadership.
And, what "logic system" and "corrupt philosophy" am I/we following that is inferior to those you employ, Hiver?
MANY people of various faith systems also believe that the spirit "reveals" to THEM what "arm of flesh" to follow. What makes you think YOUR flavor of "revealation" is superior to theirs? The still, small, voice?--that ALL of us are entitled to receive?
Good Q&A. I learned a lot on the core of the LDS church.
what strikes me thought is to hear the Christians present laugh at the "Mormon silliness" but there religion is as silly and equally riddled with wrong and "silly" information.
Hello, talking donkey in the bible anyone?
Asspada 3 days ago
I find it funny how Mormons watching this try and twist things so they don't have to question their beliefs!! Now that's mind control!!!
tattoodfreeek 5 months ago
i really dont know why people watch this to find out if the mormon church is true.
you really should attend a mormon church for once to see for yourself. this really is sad to see because i know soooo manny goood people that come from the mormon church and i mean alot. i know there may be people going through tough times but everyone is human and through jesus christ all mankind may be saved by the gift of the holy ghost.
KlowwnKiller 10 months ago
This guy only wants to confuse people. Someone asked what the Gospel is. Look in 3 Ne. 27:21 (D&C 33:12; D&C 39:6). The Gospel focuses on Christ and His mission. If anyone wants a better explanation of the Gospel, please let me know. Someone said the leaders worship Satan. Give me a break. Don't lie. The same Biblical Jesus is the Jesus we worship.
LDStothecore 1 year ago
aaaand, we'll go ahead and end this with some crazy. ....just kidding a little bit. I think. (and am still thinking).
Gijera 1 year ago
The Gospel is as the mormon guy said,"repent, believe in christ, be baptized, endure to the end." Jesus commanded that, he didn't command to believ in him as their savior, no ordinances equals lack of jesus on the earth. Ordiances, equals priesthood authority. Jesus always commandmed his apostles to preach and baptize those that believe unto repentance. PERIOD
jkulesha 1 year ago
Mr. Red shirt doesn't know God, unlessyou have seen God and met him you don't know who he is, so how can anyone say joseph smith and all the others that saw God are wrong.
jkulesha 1 year ago
its not mind control its choice
jkulesha 1 year ago
@conmuchogusto007: The 'He must be a closet sinner/adulterer' is why he left defense. He did tell you why he was excommunicated. He read the factual history that does not jive with his honest conscience. Intellectually honesty is not tolerated in the LDS theology: Look up Polyandry. And as for your implied, "Leave the church but don't leave it alone"...After an entire LIFE being invested into something, you can't just turn it off like a lightswitch. That's a disingenuous 'self serving thought.
Plan8FromOuterSpace 1 year ago
Lyndon, you didn't tell us why you were excommunicated, after 40 years you don't have the appearance of mormons I know, one of my employees became untrustworthty, I had to let him go, now he works for the competition and I was right in firing him, is that your condition?, if it is then the church was right in kicking you out, nobody can trust a person who made sacred promises to God and then disregard this promise, if the church caused you so much pain, why continue talking about the church.
conmuchogusto007 1 year ago
@conmuchogusto007 I am in a unique position to help others leaving Mormonism. Through video, written word ("Standing for Something More"), and in person, reaching out to others and letting them know they are not alone brings me tremendous joy, unsurpassed in my life experience to date. Every day is a gift. If I had joined a gang under peer and family unity pressures and promised to commit murder, would I be wrong to back out? I think you see the metaphor.
lclamborn58 1 year ago
Mormons believe in the Christ of Matthew 3:16. Christ is baptised by John, the Holy Ghost descends in the sign of a dove, and the voice of the Father speaks from heaven. Three separate individuals, all united in one purpose. Luke and Paul refer to it as the Godhead. The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost.
LukeAir2008 1 year ago
I watched the video again and it still doesn't make sense what the pastor says at the end. When did the Church present Jesus Christ as a sinful figure? For some reason this just doesn't make sense to me.
jmclarke1 2 years ago
He said that "The gospel presented in the bible is really quite "simple"" Not sinful. But I can see how you heard that. Not the best sound recording.
MrSomebodyWho 2 years ago
I don't think he said "sinful"...I think he said "central". LDS present Jesus as a "central" figure, but people don't realize he isn't thought of the same way as most other Christian religions.
blueskyrunner83 2 years ago
Your right, I watched it with the volume loud two more times, and the pastor does say central.
jmclarke1 2 years ago
I don't think he said "sinful"...I think he said "central". LDS present Jesus as "central" to the religion, but he is not thought of the same as other Christian religions.
blueskyrunner83 2 years ago
There is definitely some good information in these video segments. I am glad their are still people out there who question their beliefs and are searching for the truth behind it all. I am still searching for the truth behind it all as well, and will probably not see everything until it is revealed by God or until more evidence comes to the surface.
jmclarke1 2 years ago
Everything in the video was great research, except for the last "observation" that was made by the pastor that was somewhat contradictory. At what point did the LDS church start teaching that Jesus Christ is a sinner? My understanding was that Christ made an atonement for all of us as sinners, because he was perfect( without sin), so that we might be able to repent and return into the father's presence someday. I have never heard that before and I was raised as LDS.
jmclarke1 2 years ago
Comment removed
helmuthnaumann 2 years ago
Lyndon, thank you very much. This was the beginning for me out of mormonism. It hurt, but just for a while...since you realize you have been hood-winged. Thanks again Lyndon!!
MagnusIfver 3 years ago 2
Magnus - hearing about your experience and others is so heart-warming. It really stings to realize you have given a good part of your life and substance supporting a myth.
lclamborn 2 years ago
Could you please define "the Christian church"? Mormons are Christians, too.
BYU4U 3 years ago
BYU4U... When a person outside of Mormonism talks about the "Christian Church", he is talking about the "body of Christ" which isunderstood to be the people who follow Christ and his teachings that are from the biblical representation of those teachings. They do not accept Mormonism as part of that body because of all of Mormons' beliefs about Jesus and his ministry that are not supported biblically. Paul warned the people to beware of different gospels from the one taught by the apostles
MrSomebodyWho 2 years ago
and most christians find mormonism to be VERY different from the teachings found in the New Testament. So like it or not, Mormon's will likely never be embraced by biblical Christians. If you take the time to listen to what biblical Christians have to say about the matter, you might gain some insight as to why that lack of acceptance exists. Good luck, and God Bless...
MrSomebodyWho 2 years ago
Christ said he who is not baptized by water or by the Spirit cannot enter the Kingdom of God. Christ was an ordinance guy.
If you want to prove the LDS in error, you have to debunk the doctrine of continuing revelation. The last time this was attempted, to turn revelation into a solecism, materialism and atheism were born.
Jesus and Heavenly Father being one and the same is an extra-biblical doctrine of the creeds of Catholicism.
lnielsen76 3 years ago
church calling. I was, however to continue to wear the temple garments, PAY A FULL TITHE, and meet with my branch president (I would call him and ask if he ws available but he was often away on business I continued to do these things and when the branch president was being released from his position as branch president he asked to meet with me. He was tearful and apologized for "dropping the ball" to use his words. I told him that I HAD to forgive him but that he should be asking forgiveness..
Jefferoni007 3 years ago
Thanks for sharing this, Jefferoni007. Real life is so strange, but it can also have rewards pop up in very strange ways. I hope things are going well for you now.
lclamborn 2 years ago
(sorry this message may seem choppy because I cant get it all in one comment)..in any event a decision was made that I be disfellowshipped this was in 2002 and I was told by the branch president that he would be working closly with me to "get me back". In the letter it told me what I could and could not do during this time of probation I was to refrain from taking the sacrament, saying public prayers, giving talks, holding a current temple recommend, sustaining church officers or serving in a ..
Jefferoni007 3 years ago
all of these actions I did were to mask the extreme pain and sense of loss I felt when my wife left me for another man. I decided to return to church and as a result of me wanting to "do the right thing" come back to the fold etc I had a meeting with my branch president, he set a time for a counsel to hear me. I met in a cramped room with men I didnt know (because I had relocated to another province) and poured my heart out to these men. A decision was made that I be disfellowshipped..
Jefferoni007 3 years ago
Im surprised I sat through all 7 episodes but glad I did. I was disfellowshipped in 2007 "as a result of conduct unbecomming a member of the church". My wife who I married in the temple had moved in with another man and asa result I made some dicisions that according to the church I shouldn't have. I partied a little too much and had "relations" (to use terminology from the movie Nutty Professor) with women I had met while I was out and about. My disfelowshipment was to last for one year...
Jefferoni007 3 years ago
How is your life now?
I have tremendous respect for Lyndon Lamborn because I can't even begin to imagine how hard it is to pull away from such a seductive, pervasive cult.
moparmonster1965 3 years ago
As insightful as this discussion was, these people still don't have a very clear idea of the LDS view of Jesus. The LDS Jesus is virtually identical to that of Christians, just a bit more complex. Mormons DO believe that Jesus was the God of the Old Testament. Mormons believe that Jesus was the creator and redeemer of the world, that there is no other way to reach heaven except through Him, etc. It was clear from some of the comments that these people see a bigger difference than there is.
TheseusEscaped 3 years ago
i take that back correction i would say more likly the guy is a christian in the begin with took her to a event and the other one is an actual mormon but in active the one who has the long brown hair and blue denim jean long sleeved jacket white decent is who i am talking about. The other guy is besides her with a beanie on his head i would say he was never mormon but the other chick is. Since mormons mostly have more women then men in there wards most of the time.
singelmaleseekingFM 3 years ago
you got too young people i noticed who are in there they looked to be former members of jesus christ of ladder day trolls lol. Im glad they made a stand to at least check out x mormons for jesus praise God amen.
singelmaleseekingFM 3 years ago
I think I figured it out. Mormons are a covenant making people They not only believe, but covenant via baptism, temple, etc with God. These Christians make no covenants (or claim to make them in their hearts) and need no outward ritual, only faith. Read the Bible and decide which is closer to what it teaches. I would be interested in others thoughts.
bytebear 3 years ago
Great job Lyndon, I'm glad you are taking such a great public forum to bring awareness to everyone about the whole Mormon scam. I got out same time as you, and for the exact same reasons.
frogeyedtoad 4 years ago
That was an interesting series to watch. What Lyndon Lamborn says must scare the Mormon gerontocracy absolutely spitless. That and the fact that church growth has virtually flat lined.
Too bad the sound was so terrible thru out these vids, tho. Very hard to heard.
Turandot29 4 years ago
I'm glad we are finally able to hear him in his own words and not cut up quotes in a newspaper article.
He seems sincere and maybe he will get a few people to ask themselves questions.
gunnerclark 4 years ago
"facts" hahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahaha! I guess he was there at that time. And how can you believe people who hate that which they protest against, and have turned on. Who can trust a traitor.
jeffrrs 4 years ago
Why was this guy kicked out for having doubts? Don't we all?
thatjimguy 4 years ago
Every patriot was a traitor once!
hahndav 4 years ago
Not necessarily. I guess those who fight in our military today were traitors once. And those who serve our country were once traitors. There are appropriate times to break from a tyrannical government or oppressor and move on. But to turn on a system that is as harmless as the LDS Church is pretty low.
jeffrrs 3 years ago
I agree with hahnday's "patriot" comment. In addition, each and every LDS member today has been a "traitor" themselves, or have a traitor in their geneology that left Methodism or Catholicism to join Mormonism. They were considered traitors by some in those churches. So... The ability to change one's thinking is THE impetus for progress.
sAME2U22 4 years ago
While certainly there are instances in which change is demanded for progress there are times in which steadiness in a course is required.
You talk of individuals being 'traitor' to their own selves, yet everyone always has natures that they are either fighting or fostering, we are always choosing who we will be, thusly there is always some 'nature' some part of ourselves that we are waring against.
HiveRadical 4 years ago
Give us an example of "steadiness in a course is required", outside of religion. We are human beings and our progress here, in this reality, is absolutely predicated on the idea that we must change (adapt) or die, based on new and better information. That is the credo of science. Religion is stuck in this "stediness" you mention--except when they are FORCED to change, ie. Galileo. Even THEN, it took MANY years for religionists to accept Galileo's reality. LDS must adapt or die.
sAME2U22 4 years ago
I never said "traitor to their own selves", but a "traitor" from the perspective of the self-righteous and judgemental. "Traitor to their owm selves" are YOUR words, not mine.
sAME2U22 4 years ago
I don't care that he left, it is sad that he never recieved a witness. Not everyone does for one reason or another. One mans interaction with God is his own and can only be justified by the similar experience of another.
jeffrrs 3 years ago
What do you mean he "never recieved a witness"? By his own words he was as much a "believer" as you or most other Mormons. WHY in the world would a SANE person dedicate/sacrifice the money and time required
to be in good standing in church (as apparently, his local leaders believed he was at one time), and do so fully believing he WAS witnessed to. What else would motivate someone to go to those insane lengths, if not belief in doing the "right" thing? Who are YOU to question LL's motives?
sAME2U22 3 years ago
Thankfully, there are upwards of 100,000 (and growing) Mormons each year who are doing EXACTLY what LL did (exed or resigning membership).
I think that the mere fact of you being here is prima facie evidence that you DO care. Elder Ballard cares. Tommy(gun) Monson cares (did you hear his GC talk?). The LDS Hierachy
are frantically trying to come up with ways to stop the hemorraging. Good luck to them. Ain't gonna happen.
sAME2U22 3 years ago
Wow here you go off on a tirade about questioning motives and then you have the audacity to try and tell me what my motives are for being here. Wow you are a hypocrite. My motives have nothing to do with LL. The only reason I watched this tripe was a trade so a friend would watch a video about Joseph Smith. I only respond because it is seriously disturbing to find that you all who profess to believe in the Bible seem to have missed its central message. Love thy neighbor.
jeffrrs 3 years ago
Who is making assumptions here?? Where did I EVER say that I believed in the bibble (or babble)?? As long as you are here (WHATEVER the motive is beside the point), you might as well deal with some of the points in the vid you disagree with, doncha think?--instead of playing the role of a poor, persecuted crybaby. BTW, I think you came out WAY ahead in the "trade" with your friend!! LOL! A video about JS? Gag me with a spoon!!
sAME2U22 3 years ago
Mormonism does not teach, contrary to what the pastor said, that Jesus ever sinned. They teach he has never sinned. However, Mormonism does leave the door open for the Father having once possibly sinned. I'd invite anyone here to check out my videos on Mormonism and Christianity.
aaronshaf2006 4 years ago
Christ said that he has done only what he has seen his father in heaven do. Which in Mormon Doctrine only leaves the question if Christ never sinned than the Father must not have sinned, because Christ followed his example purely, and perfectly.
jeffrrs 3 years ago
1 FINALLY, my brethren, rejoice in the Lord. To write the same things to you, to me indeed is not grievous, but for you it is safe.
2 Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers, beware of the concision.
3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.
4 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more:
HiveRadical 4 years ago
Spoken by just another "arm of flesh".
sAME2U22 4 years ago
23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. 24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise aforetold of these days. 25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
jeffrrs 3 years ago
You ACTUALLY think that quoting BoM scripture is going to magically change someone's mind, jeffie?? The ONLY one that gets the warm fuzzies from it is you. How about I quote Humpty Dumpty "scripture" to you?--it'll have about the same effect--as they are BOTH fairy tales! HD 2:12 "And all the king's horses and all the king's men couldn't put Humpty Dumpty back together again."
Now tell me, jeffie, didn't that just send shivers up the old spine? No?? Well, you just don't have the spirit!!
sAME2U22 3 years ago
No I don't think it will change anything. Scripture is just writing on a page it is what you do with that scripture that makes the difference. You can take it or leave it. You are just a hateful spiteful person that wants to attack the LDS church. Have fun and lets see where that gets you.
jeffrrs 3 years ago
As I already stated, I "hate" no one. What you LOVE to construe as hate is simply a legit. challenge to LDS doctrine and/or history. It's just gotta be HATE , tho, because if it were not hate, you'd have zero food to feed that persecution complex of yours.
Where did "it" get me? Let's see...it got me a 10% raise. It freed up my Sundays and I no longer have to wear what HAS to be the most BUTT UGLY underwear on the face of the earth. And that's just for starters!! LOL!
sAME2U22 3 years ago
" if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together." --Rom 8:17
HiveRadical 4 years ago
What of those who have "confidence in the flesh" of JosephsMYTH?--of Breedem Young, GBH, Monson? and their claims--all of whom were admittedly
fallible men (flesh)?
sAME2U22 4 years ago
We don't trust in the flesh, that's what you're doing. We don't trust the prophets just because they claim to speak for God, we trust them because God has personally and directly revealed to US that we are to heed their warnings.
Your appeal to 'confidence in the flesh' is laughable because that's EXACTLY what got you where you are presently-you trust in your own capacity to discern truth with just your finite and inherently corrupt philosophies and logic systems.
HiveRadical 4 years ago
"Follow the Prophet, Follow the Prophet..." If that song (and others) is not encouraging members to put their trust in flesh, I don't know what is?? "Do what WE do, Trust us", has long been the mantra (stated in many varying ways), of LDS leadership.
And, what "logic system" and "corrupt philosophy" am I/we following that is inferior to those you employ, Hiver?
sAME2U22 4 years ago
MANY people of various faith systems also believe that the spirit "reveals" to THEM what "arm of flesh" to follow. What makes you think YOUR flavor of "revealation" is superior to theirs? The still, small, voice?--that ALL of us are entitled to receive?
sAME2U22 4 years ago