That is NOT the definition of insanity. The definition is; Insane: In a state of mind that prevents normal perception, behavior, or social interaction; seriously mentally ill. Straight from google. SUCK IT!!
Life on earth is dependant on how much it can gain from its surroundings.
Bacteria in a testube will keep on growing (exponentially) until they have absolutely no food left.
Humans' test tube is the earth. We are reaching our carrying capacity of the planet; we are stealing food, among other things, from the planet, consuming, and wasting it by dumping the excess in landfills. the earth can't keep giving endlessly. 6.9 BILLION humans on the planet. we will literally consume ourselves to death.
Well done. It's too bad most people missed the point of the video. I think it's hard to break with our identification with the dominant culture, so in some ways I don't blame them for missing the point. Hopefully as civilization collapses (as they always do) people will start to see how big of a mistake this has been.
There is a lot of unnecessary suffering in this system and does a better model of freedom exist and if so should we be satisfied with the little bit of freedom that we do have or should we have a different viewpoint of what freedom is and discover ways to pursue it ?
@GanaLaMana You're responding to a comment I made 11 months ago. After having revisited the first 20 seconds of it or so, I can confirm that yes, past me was correct. This video is total nonsense. Do you remember the bit in The Matrix from 1999 where Agent Smith likens human civilization to a virus? Same basic point as this video. Most important message in the world? Doubt it.
@Anomalous59 There's a major difference between "Humanity Is A Virus," which is what Smith said, and "Civilization Is A Virus," which is what this video says. There is a HUGE difference between "Humanity Is A Virus," which is what Smith said, and "Civilization Is A Virus," which is what the video says. Just to clarify, Humanity IS NOT A Synonym for Civilization. Is this all very clear...?
@zzz33333 There really isn't, you know. The issue in both cases is rampant resource consumption, which applies chiefly to civilization, and the issue is neither new nor revolutionary (and Smith phrased it better than you, I'm sorry to say).
Anyway, I won't bother with this any more. Feel free to respond, though; you may have the last word.
@Bloddrake, what if you were wrong? would you feel a sense of responsibility to help? lots of people are suffering right now, specifically because you're not.
@Bloddrake Don't do it for the conscience of the planet. Do it so that human life may continue on this planet. If anything at all matters, wouldn't that be the first thing?
@lorentsmful there are lots of [wild, uncivilized] humans whose lives don't require perpetual exploitation of everything like ours does. uncivilized human populations do not perpetually, exponentially increase like civilized populations.
clearly the problem is not "humans," but "civilization."
@zzz33333 yeah and they never technologically evolve either in order to leave this planet and join the rest of the universe's lifeforms. whats the point to keep living the same way for eternity? you be no better than an ant colony or an alligator. this is a learning process. do you think the jew rulers of the world know what they are doing? mostly they do. but they aren't perfect either. they know that there is no death and no punishment so thats why people suffer in the world. eventuallyutopia
To anyone who sees any grain of truth in this message, reconsider your reasoning. This is the fear-mongering of the weak in our society who cannot provide for themselves and rather seek to try and change the world to make it easier for them to live. You can be be great, you can be a creator in the status quo. Read Ayn Rand.
Great video. I've been reading through some of the comments and the ignorance of the opposition is often self-evident. At least in those that have commented.
Regarding your comparison of Civilisation to Psychopathy, I wonder if it would be more productive to analyse this in further detail, relating it to the various characteristics of the pathology with examples, as Joel Bakan does in 'The Corporation'? Of course this would have made for a longer video. Maybe one for the next attempt?
This should be shown in schools........although you know how I feel about them too! I'm showing to the home schoolers I know! Very educational and well explained. Thank you!
define "barbaric," objectively. according to years of extensive study, i've concluded civilization is actually savage barbarism. it's a system based totally on control and domination. can you refute this?
no porcelain cups, huh? very good. the next stup is cutting out coffee.
now ask yourself - is this system generous? is it healthy? is it supportive? does it TAKE more or does it GIVE more?
most important question: do all humans build civilizations?
answer: no. humans have been on planet earth for millions of years without civilization. even since the birth of civilization there have remained uncivilized tribes who refuse to comply with civilization.
the world is crazy... and the maker/uploader of this video is proof that most people are really stupid.
i will not try to explain to mentally ill freak like u zzz33333 that Economy, Greed and Civilization are GOOD and deeply wired in all mammals (for now - only we Homo Sapiens are capable to colonize) so instead explaining Obvious things to u... why u just don't give me clues about what exactly GOOD and POSITIVE this imaginery Cannibal Primitivist Society will bring to us humans? um? ^.^
for starters, no more nukes, no more dams, no more money, no more slavery, no more suicide, no more rape, no more car accidents, no more boredom, no more cancer, no more diabetes, no more insanity, no more schizophrenia, no more loneliness, no more random shootings..... want me to go on?
"civilization are good and deeply wired in all mammals."
uh, huh? this is just wrong. like, how do people think this way????
but... the diseases u mentioned (especially more "subtle ones": mental i mean) will Remain... max amount of death from ordinary flues, max amount of Rape (no police, no law... pure anarchy lol ^.^), everyone will be free to eat humans, kill humans, exploit them in unthinkable ways... u are mentally ill freak... i am studying mostly biology and chemistry, someday i will become psychiatrist and take care of people like u... i am such nice Humanist ^.^
excuse me, but civilization itself exploits humans in unthinkable ways, worse than humans would be exploited in a tribal society (they wouldn't be exploited very much at all, compared to what we have now).
Please join us, you will understand the cause eventually. There is no reason to write us off because you don't understand our mission right now.
Just read "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn to start out. Good luck, and respect.
"civilization are good and deeply wired in all mammals"
sir, humans have survived (and thrived) for 99% of human history in TRIBES. Now you are saying that civilization is the only thing humans have known, know, and ever will know? are you suggesting that there is nothing that could possibly be better than civilization? Just because we DID build civilization doesnt mean we SHOULD build civilization.
global warming and over population are nearly hard wired into everyones head after forty years of deeply embedded propaghana in every aspect of nwo controled media. a friend keeps quoting george carlin on overpopulation. thinks the world would be better off with only a few hundred thousand ppl. so why dont you be first in line at the fema death camp, all the tech we need to be independant is kept from us. if we could make our own power and grow our own food we wouldnt be their slaves. free
Let's do it this way: you NWO-ers go blow up fema camps, police stations and gov. propaganda tools. We "tools of the NWO" will stick to blowing up dams, factory farming units, corporate buildings and forestry camps. Everybody gets to play with explosives, everybody's happy :D
look at a picture of the whole earth at night. lots of pinpoints of light. and 99% of world is black. they have us pinned down to the grid with wire. we grow enought food to feed the world 3 times over but 1/3 is eaten by rats and 1/3 is lost through mismanagement. we are pinned down in over populated cities. if we could live off the grid and spread out and. use solar, wind, geothermal, wave/tide for energy we wouldnt need oil. mismanaged on purpose so they have a plausable excuse,
you are a tool for nwo. global warming and overpopulation are a hoax to enable depopulation and eugenics. there is no warming, they want to tax the air and transfer wealth frm first world countries to third world countries and fund the un nwo.
you are fucked in the head. get an education dumbass.
And when the nwo finally wipe out most of the population... there will be a brave new world... filled with rich elite... who will be served by ?!? who will be their slaves ??? When we are gone they would have to do everything!!! o|O Damn that sucks... Wealth useless... Power ? no more... Elites ? Elite who ? If they are the only ones left.... Believe me, to any rich folk the NWO scenario is more scary than to you or me ;)
Like2MilkGoats - what relevance does Baha'i have here? you're saying it's a religion that says humanity should unify, and you're behind it? the world already IS unified. one love, one heart, right?
the problem is our culture's dominance. if we relinquish the reigns, we'll all be Baha'is, essentially, immediately.
No monetary gain is earned from this video. Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use. Not to mention that taking this video down would be the height of irony.
no goats, poisoning the water supply is what civilization does. if civilization were to end, there would be plenty of happy, healthy grandchildren to eat the abundant salmon who were able to actually return to their breeding grounds and lay eggs.
do you think that 'civilization' and 'life' mean the same thing?
I've read your comments and I understand the meaning of advance. But your frame of reference is molded. Step out of that mindset and realize that I'm not talking about advanced barbary.
everyone's frame of reference is molded, until it is molded another way, and then another, and then another. you carry on as though you have not read (at least three of our posts,. or are for some reason utterly unwilling to address our concerns we have laid out.. because i MADE the EXACT same arguments you keep making for at least 10, probably 15 years of my life missy,.. and then i encountered another set of questions.. very difficult to answer philosophically and morally.. (cont)
Continued- It's kind of like feeding the poor...charities can give to the poor, but with elitist Capitalist still making loans to poorer nations that cannot be paid back, you're pissing in the wind, so to speak. We need a resourced based society to end all of this corruption from monetary systems.
Let me make this clear: lending to poor nations "KNOWING" they cannot pay it back it a result of Capitalism...it's a well oiled machine. It's about profit.....and it doesn't matter if indebting a 3rd world country puts the people there in poverty, a "profit" was made. Do you get my point?
eh not really. you can have communist and socialist and libertarian civilization too. but capitalism and civilization are two monsters that certainly feed each other well.
you're talking about philosophical ideals, and i'm talking about the actual systems that have been in place in human history on the earth
marx's communism has workers owning factories. i resist using the word 'communism' because of that context
it could be argued that other systems that distinguish themselves from capitalism are capitalism, if you define capitalism as turning life (plants, animals, water, air, human souls) into death (money)
hi penni,.. i would actually much agree with zzz on this one.. and not just a matter of semantics.. i think it would be more accurate to say marx's 'socialism' had workers owning factories, etc.. socialism was the mechanism marx presented for achieving communism,.. but marx himself and 'marxists' generally would have reserved the word 'communism' to indicate the stateless, moneyless, future, the gift economy.. though they wrote very little of it.
i don't find his mechanism persuasive,.. few anarchists would.. but i think it is fair to say he would not call it communism.. that communism cannot have a civilization around it. and i agree regarding capitalism as well.. that it is rooted in the first commodification of life.. the sanskrit word capital is derived from; kaput.. which means 'head' or 'cattle' or 'head of cattle'.. i gleefully (wink) call myself a communist without worry for contradiction. but thats me.
yeah i hear that and i love that meaning of the word, but i was referring to the mainstream definition of what has been called communism in practice in U.S.S.R, China, etc., not the ideal, or the goal of socialism (which is also seen as static in the mainstream, not dynamic like you're talking here)
haven't read marx in yonks--nice to get that distinction
Penniless cripple wrote: "how will evironmental concerns be 'addressed and considered'? isn't that what the dominant culture is doing right now?
i repeat, i see no difference in the venus project and the current status quo, except there's an even larger element of fantasy
Activist & other environmental groups crop up all the time...and can make a small difference...but with Capitalism and it's expected behavior results, it will only be a short time b/f the same env. degred. continues.
compost is barely relevant,.. and is by the way a poor substitute for the presence of vast ruminant herds, destroyed from almost everywhere, super-organisms for soil creation unmatched by human composting.
composting is a very personal solution, which is to say.. it IS interesting,.. no doubt many would like to know more, (i would.) make a VIDEO..
but what it has to do with THIS video, apart from a dadaist excursion, escapes me.
ha! no, no books.. as yet i only scribble manifestos onto passing clouds.. i fear it would become one long nonlinear sentence, though i do have a file folder full of first paragraphs which sneer at me.
recently someone was referencing alex jones and i noted that for the 15 or so years i have known of AJ, he and i have had exactly the same relationship as biily mays and i have enjoyed.
that is, that the relationships are identically abusive. whenever i have encountered either of them they were SCREAMING at me!, about a package deal.
and no doubt there are occasions for screaming,.. but yeah "occasions"..
Civilized medicine done wrong sure, but there isn't really great potential from just natural medicine, though I do think natural medicine is great and at times can be all one needs.
Yeah, in this capitalistic society, that's how it is... if we can make it not about consumption, maybe we won't even need jobs or money.
And even in an indigenous society... you'd still have to work a ton to grow food and sustain that way of life... especially with the population we have now.
You can go and surely support yourself in the wild though, if you bring a gun to hunt with, that is.
I might agree that we have too many drugs... with too many side-effects. But drugs can be perfected, and besides, technology that can improve quality of life (and help medically) extends far beyond drugs.
Yeah, anti-semitism is bad. So is religion that divides us in the first place.
if drugs could be 'perfected', how come they haven't been? are we waiting for some glorious tomorrow that's right around the corner?
vioxx was a perfect drug, and it killed god knows how many people--over 150K at least. i have heaps more examples
i have the distinct impression you haven't had much real-world experience with the modern 'miracles' of industrial medicine, king, because you are just parroting the standard propaganda of the dominant culture
Because we're not there yet... I think you underestimate what scientists are *capable of* doing... sure, the government has some of them making dangerous shit, but by no means all... and the positive potential is still there... I mean, do you think these guys are all idiots or something? They obviously see the potential in what they're doing.
We might be right around the corner, who knows... but I think it'll take longer than that.
Whatever pc, I hear their shit and your shit and I simply land more on "their" side apparently. How am I parroting propaganda? It's true that drugs can be made a lot better, if not "perfected" necessarily. That seems to be less propaganda than, "Dismiss all modern science! It can only do harm! There is no good that could ever come from it!"
I didnt say the words you quote as I rarely if ever use exclamation points.
how are you parroting propaganda? by repeating the central message of the dominant culture. consider that what youve absorbed from your culture might not be true.
Im having a hard time coming up with a benefit from industrial science and technology that isnt highly dubious—can you?
theres the externalized costs of production, use, and disposal. also if the benefit is not available to all, no thanks.
You didn't use those exact words but that's how extreme your position is.
I've considered that everything I've ever known might be a lie, down to my very senses... please don't give me that. I think you can see at this point I've thought about it for myself and that I simply see pursuing technology and a better civilization as more logical at this point than just tearing down the whole thing and living in tribes. Consider that, while some may dismiss any good things that can be learned from...
indigenous culture, they aren't necessarily wrong in the general idea that civilization isn't all bad.
I'm not entirely sure, but hasn't the average age increased since that time? And aren't there natural viruses and types of infections that we now have vaccines for (that actually work)? I'm no expert, but I'm sure an expert could go on for hours about the positives of modern science, and crystal clear, not dubious.
To your last point; UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE! ... would be a start... and maybe...
i'd take quality of life over quantity of life any day
our society boasts about longevity, thent treats our elders deplorably
longevity means the machine can get more (producing and consuming) years out of the slaves that way--that's why slave owners took 'such good care' of their slaves--it's more cost-effective
i'm no expert, but am sure there's *no* expert who could go on for hours about the (crystal clear, not dubious) positives of modern science
Ok, now here you make it seem like the only reason modern medical science was advanced this far is due to some insidious plot by the civilization monster, in order to use the citizens to make the capitalist machine stronger... I think that instead, medical science was advanced to help people improve quality of life (and while civilization has caused problems, think about it, we've improved since the dark ages), but then this corrupt system twists...
I know the dark ages was civilization, the point is, civilization has gotten a lot better since that time. So who's to say it won't get better from now?
And about medical errors, those are due to a lack of advancement in the medical field, not too much.
... this positive for the people into something more positive for the machine. So as it is, it's fucked, but the pure potential of what medical science (and on a broader point, science in general) has achieved is far more than a government tool.
okay so are you saying the problem is that the system is okay, but it's just corrupt? then what are the causes of the corruption? how can it be stopped?
You keep saying this, but I keep saying that civilization doesn't necessarily have to based on profit and production... only this current flawed capitalism... in a system not like that, it will have the advantage of being available to everyone and also have far more possibilities than purely "indigenous" or basically, "untampered with by man" medicine.
I didnt say the words you quote as I rarely if ever use exclamation points.
how are you parroting propaganda? by repeating the central message of the dominant culture. consider that what youve absorbed from your culture might not be true.
Im having a hard time coming up with a benefit from industrial science and technology that isnt highly dubious—can you?
theres the externalized costs of production, use, and disposal. also if the benefit is not available to all, no thanks.
Well that's good. I'm sure you'd be glad that, even if you don't want to immerse yourself in technology, that it exists so that if, for example you contracted a disease, there might be the treatment for it to help you get better, because of technology.
I was using "despise" in regards to z and pc's position on in. Pc actually said herself that she (I think Zack said "she" in regards to pc) despises technology... so I was saying that is a better word than "fear" for their position.
Excellent Video! Just subscribed! I wish there were more than 5 stars!! I'll favorite this video and urge others to as well so it may be seen by as many as possible. Truly a great message that people really need to hear. Thanks for spreading the knowledge. I hope all that see this can take something away from it and make a step in the right direction. Thank you
This is a good idea. We need a lot of different solutions. Community centers, places to teach about farming, all sorts of things are needed. We need to bring people back.
the planet might NOT be fine. it IS possible to force ecosystems to collapse. if we force enough ecosystems to collapse then the planet dies. regardless, we're murdering countless living things right now, WITHOUT killing the planet. shouldn't we stop that, and protect those living things?
i don't think we have the right to say, "the planet will be fine." the planet is not currently fine.
I think it makes more sense to get to the people who want to listen, who want change and empower them instead of worrying about tasks that are impossible.
What new system? Are you talking about the system that ozjthomas was proposing, the Iroqouis Nation style thing that is anti-technology? If so then no I was just refuting it.
Okay, sorry for the wait pennilesscripple, but Im good on my word (I just wish we hadnt spread this over so many comments, lets try to streamline it as we go):
You say if civilization isnt based on profit and production, then it isnt civilization, and that big business is just a symptom of a sick system. But if you change the system, it wont be a sick one. (I think weve gone over this, Im going quick here, too many points).
Also, you say try being born at the bottom of the pyramind of civilization, in indiegous society, when times are good, everyone prospers... and vice versa... I would say that an advanced society doesnt have to be a pyramid, if its truly advanced, it solves the problem of heirarchy... maybe take that particular lesson from idigenous tribes, but having a greater quality of life where everyone prospers etc... were far from getting there.
You say I get my ideas of indigenous culture from popular culture... these cultures are based on what is good for the land etc... 100s of people ran away from civilization to live like this... Well sure, many people would rather live that way, after living in this flawed industrial culture too long. Though the vast majority dont end up doing this, so I dont think that has much relevance. And about indigenous cultures being based on what is good for the land...
whos to say a better advanced (again, Ill use this word, expediency etc.) society cant find a way to be good for the earth or people? I think we went over some of these possibilities before.
And also, on a point you never responded to, what exactly do you have in mind for this anyway, you said earlier you dont want us to live in idigenous ways and that I was projecting that onto what you werre saying. I dont want to misrepresent you, what are you picturing?
Ill use my earlier example once again; do we keep farm tools but ditch the electronics? And if we achieve this, whats to stop some other part of the world from simply advancing again and becoming the Europeans to another areas native Americans? There wont be worldwide communication so we cant keep track of this kind of thing. Ive been responding to your points but have neglected several of mine.
Ok, you talk about being saddened when people get excited about technology, but then you...
... proceed to complain about the government bastradization of technology, not the pure potential of technology itself. There has to be a way to expound upon the quality of liffe improving technology without letting a flawed system twist the direction of it. There IS a way to do this, and if achieved, yeilds the best result. There is no way however, that man can acheive the end result that you propose (though maybe you want to clarify it so I dont misrepresent you).
Every generation thinks the last were fools etc... I certainly dont think this, and this line of thought should be heavily educated against.
This cultures religion is not technology will save us. But even if it was, its still better than God will save us. What I think is more of a religion than that though, is believing that our world can actually, or will actually collectively agree, at some point, to live in your idea of a indigenous lifestyle... (dont want to project but I dont
Tribal warfare is tribes fighting. The power of the community might stop violence within the community, but only within. Violence between them and the others, would still exist, and now that we have more peolple than ever it would be even worse. Seriously, what are you picturing here?
With the bufffalo, how the hell would it be any different? Thats how civilization operates, not indigenous cultures. What would change? continued...
Again, here I'm quoting you when you said, "Thats how civilization operates, not indigenous cultures"... but it doesn't look like it because of fucking youtube.
Youd still have people competing for resources. There are too many people now, we need to find a way to create resources as per my idea earlier.
You say:
one misconception you seem to have is that you think i'm saying 'we must all live like x tribe'. i'm just saying that indigenous cultures *work* and civilization doesn't, and we can draw inspiration from them
we wouldn't live like them. for one thing, we have way too much shit.
Define works. Its sustainable. Well, civilization or...
... rather, technological society doesnt have to be unsustainable. Ive always said we can draw inspiration from them.
But if we wouldnt live like them, partly do to having too much shit, what would you have us do? Like I said, I think I need a clarifier on your position.
Anyway, there it is, take your time responding, I went and responded to everything that I hadn't, but we can just figure out the key points and go from there.
i think you're missing some key points here, KingCrimson... namely this is not all pontification and postulation. civilization is inherently unsustainable, inherently violent and exploitative. there is no way to have a civilization that is not these things. it doesn't really matter what we "think" is possible.
it's like, you can't have a warm ice cream cone. if you had a warm ice cream cone, it wouldn't be an ice cream cone. it doesn't matter what you "think" is possible.
It doesn't matter what you think is impossible. You can't actually prove that ANY form of civilization is unsustainable. But what can be proven is that technology has the potential to improve the quality of life greatly... and I guess that's the essence of the disagreement between you (and pc) and I. I wonder at the possibilities (while noting the danger), you guys fear them inherently. But I'd say you only need fear (or rather, despise) the current flawed system's bastardization of technology..
Besides, like I said, "whats to stop some other part of the world from simply advancing again and becoming the Europeans to another areas native Americans?"
Even if we could get to that point, it would be an endless cycle. The only way to break free of it is make this "advanced" thing work, and in the process create a world better than we ever had before. I can't just be ok with the idea that we were never meant to explore space and use our full inventive potential. That
consider that we were given a perfect world that works very well, and that man's idea that he can improve on something so miraculous is nothing but hubris, which is, very obviously, leading to his destruction
explore space? for what? nasa gets its funding because of its military research/potential
you keep using the words 'advanced' and 'perfect'--can you define them?
See, this is why I said you had an idealist vision before... how about you consider that the world in itself is not perfect because much suffering exists naturally... and perhaps, if done right, and in the right system, man's ability to invent can in fact one day reduce the overall suffering of all beings immensely.
You act like this idea of man that he can improve it is "unnatural" or something. If that's so then humankind is unnatural. When man looks around and sees something he can improve
there is the 'natural' suffering that comes from cycles of birth and death, and then there is the highly unnatural suffering that comes at the hands of industrial technology. do you really need a list? we can start with bombs and napalm and work backwards to coal mines and automobiles and hospitals.
it's hard for me to believe anyone can look at the miracle that is this earth and not see that she doesn't need 'fixing', and that humans don't know what the fuck they are doing
I think we went through the bombs and napalm, I don't like those things, and I don't think they are an inherent outcome of civilization. And really, in most parts of the world, those things aren't really all that prevalent... and they can become even less, until we get rid of them. This is possible.
You ask me to define terms, now you define 'natural' and 'unnatural'. Isn't anything that occurs 'natural'... being literal of course, but the point is, if by 'unnatural' means, 'natural' and...
That is NOT the definition of insanity. The definition is; Insane: In a state of mind that prevents normal perception, behavior, or social interaction; seriously mentally ill. Straight from google. SUCK IT!!
MetalxXxMayhem 5 months ago
Life on earth is dependant on how much it can gain from its surroundings.
Bacteria in a testube will keep on growing (exponentially) until they have absolutely no food left.
Humans' test tube is the earth. We are reaching our carrying capacity of the planet; we are stealing food, among other things, from the planet, consuming, and wasting it by dumping the excess in landfills. the earth can't keep giving endlessly. 6.9 BILLION humans on the planet. we will literally consume ourselves to death.
allsmiles432 9 months ago
We're running out of resources, peak oil and what have you, shit's gonna go down.
But what can we do?
vaguelyhumanoid 10 months ago
Well done. It's too bad most people missed the point of the video. I think it's hard to break with our identification with the dominant culture, so in some ways I don't blame them for missing the point. Hopefully as civilization collapses (as they always do) people will start to see how big of a mistake this has been.
FeralKimchi 10 months ago
There is a lot of unnecessary suffering in this system and does a better model of freedom exist and if so should we be satisfied with the little bit of freedom that we do have or should we have a different viewpoint of what freedom is and discover ways to pursue it ?
blackman666ful 11 months ago
It's scary how many people on this page agree with the ill-informed nonsense expounded in this video.
Anomalous59 1 year ago
@Anomalous59 Please explain how the video is nonsense. I would love to hear your reasoning.
GanaLaMana 1 month ago
@GanaLaMana You're responding to a comment I made 11 months ago. After having revisited the first 20 seconds of it or so, I can confirm that yes, past me was correct. This video is total nonsense. Do you remember the bit in The Matrix from 1999 where Agent Smith likens human civilization to a virus? Same basic point as this video. Most important message in the world? Doubt it.
Anomalous59 1 month ago
@Anomalous59 There's a major difference between "Humanity Is A Virus," which is what Smith said, and "Civilization Is A Virus," which is what this video says. There is a HUGE difference between "Humanity Is A Virus," which is what Smith said, and "Civilization Is A Virus," which is what the video says. Just to clarify, Humanity IS NOT A Synonym for Civilization. Is this all very clear...?
zzz33333 1 month ago
@zzz33333 There really isn't, you know. The issue in both cases is rampant resource consumption, which applies chiefly to civilization, and the issue is neither new nor revolutionary (and Smith phrased it better than you, I'm sorry to say).
Anyway, I won't bother with this any more. Feel free to respond, though; you may have the last word.
Anomalous59 1 month ago
@Anomalous59 What do viruses do? They kill their host. Civilization is killing it's host: the whole community of life on Earth.
Can you think of a more important message?
GanaLaMana 1 month ago
THE JEW DID THIS
slyinz 1 year ago
This is true. We should have nuked our culture in the 60s. Why is everyone so ignorant?! You guys just make me so sad
satanspilz 1 year ago
This is bullshit, this is just a message for self preservation.
The planet do not have a consciousness, it doesn't care if there is life on it or not.
And no matter how much we destroy this planet there will almost always be some kind of life form left on it, because life adapts.
Bloddrake 1 year ago
@Bloddrake, what if you were wrong? would you feel a sense of responsibility to help? lots of people are suffering right now, specifically because you're not.
zzz33333 1 year ago
@Bloddrake Don't do it for the conscience of the planet. Do it so that human life may continue on this planet. If anything at all matters, wouldn't that be the first thing?
GanaLaMana 1 month ago
everything has been addressed in your videos except the real problem: humans. there are too many of them. kill them.
lorentsmful 1 year ago
@lorentsmful there are lots of [wild, uncivilized] humans whose lives don't require perpetual exploitation of everything like ours does. uncivilized human populations do not perpetually, exponentially increase like civilized populations.
clearly the problem is not "humans," but "civilization."
zzz33333 10 months ago
@zzz33333 yeah and they never technologically evolve either in order to leave this planet and join the rest of the universe's lifeforms. whats the point to keep living the same way for eternity? you be no better than an ant colony or an alligator. this is a learning process. do you think the jew rulers of the world know what they are doing? mostly they do. but they aren't perfect either. they know that there is no death and no punishment so thats why people suffer in the world. eventuallyutopia
lorentsmful 10 months ago
To anyone who sees any grain of truth in this message, reconsider your reasoning. This is the fear-mongering of the weak in our society who cannot provide for themselves and rather seek to try and change the world to make it easier for them to live. You can be be great, you can be a creator in the status quo. Read Ayn Rand.
aidanfox2022 1 year ago
methinks you missed the point.
this is not about individual weakness. this is about civilization as a form of society being inherently unsustainable.
this has nothing to do with what Ayn Rand was talking about.
zzz33333 1 year ago
@aidanfox2022
ram your status quo.
planktonicorganism 1 year ago
@aidanfox2022 The person in the video doesn't claim that you can't change the status quo. He claims that there is no right answer with civilization.
GanaLaMana 1 month ago
Great video. I've been reading through some of the comments and the ignorance of the opposition is often self-evident. At least in those that have commented.
Regarding your comparison of Civilisation to Psychopathy, I wonder if it would be more productive to analyse this in further detail, relating it to the various characteristics of the pathology with examples, as Joel Bakan does in 'The Corporation'? Of course this would have made for a longer video. Maybe one for the next attempt?
luciditee 2 years ago
I don't believe everything being said. I believe it's a learning process- things aren't that bleak.
Boxrag 2 years ago
@Boxrag things are not bleak or not. i am not making value judgments. i'm just telling you the truth: civilization is inherently unsustainable.
zzz33333 10 months ago
@zzz33333 I concur
Boxrag 10 months ago
This should be shown in schools........although you know how I feel about them too! I'm showing to the home schoolers I know! Very educational and well explained. Thank you!
ambervisions 2 years ago
i had forgotten i blocked you. usually i only block people for a day.
sure we can be friends.
we can do a lot more than porcelain cups. as i said, you could consider quitting coffee altogether.
zzz33333 2 years ago
define "barbaric," objectively. according to years of extensive study, i've concluded civilization is actually savage barbarism. it's a system based totally on control and domination. can you refute this?
no porcelain cups, huh? very good. the next stup is cutting out coffee.
zzz33333 2 years ago
define excellence, objectively. define intellectually refined, objectively.
define generosity, objectively.
now ask yourself - is this system generous? is it healthy? is it supportive? does it TAKE more or does it GIVE more?
most important question: do all humans build civilizations?
answer: no. humans have been on planet earth for millions of years without civilization. even since the birth of civilization there have remained uncivilized tribes who refuse to comply with civilization.
zzz33333 2 years ago
civilization is not a synonym for humanity
zzz33333 2 years ago
the world is crazy... and the maker/uploader of this video is proof that most people are really stupid.
i will not try to explain to mentally ill freak like u zzz33333 that Economy, Greed and Civilization are GOOD and deeply wired in all mammals (for now - only we Homo Sapiens are capable to colonize) so instead explaining Obvious things to u... why u just don't give me clues about what exactly GOOD and POSITIVE this imaginery Cannibal Primitivist Society will bring to us humans? um? ^.^
MarsCocoa 2 years ago
for starters, no more nukes, no more dams, no more money, no more slavery, no more suicide, no more rape, no more car accidents, no more boredom, no more cancer, no more diabetes, no more insanity, no more schizophrenia, no more loneliness, no more random shootings..... want me to go on?
"civilization are good and deeply wired in all mammals."
uh, huh? this is just wrong. like, how do people think this way????
zzz33333 2 years ago
but... the diseases u mentioned (especially more "subtle ones": mental i mean) will Remain... max amount of death from ordinary flues, max amount of Rape (no police, no law... pure anarchy lol ^.^), everyone will be free to eat humans, kill humans, exploit them in unthinkable ways... u are mentally ill freak... i am studying mostly biology and chemistry, someday i will become psychiatrist and take care of people like u... i am such nice Humanist ^.^
MarsCocoa 2 years ago
.... huh?
zzz33333 2 years ago
excuse me, but civilization itself exploits humans in unthinkable ways, worse than humans would be exploited in a tribal society (they wouldn't be exploited very much at all, compared to what we have now).
Please join us, you will understand the cause eventually. There is no reason to write us off because you don't understand our mission right now.
Just read "Ishmael" by Daniel Quinn to start out. Good luck, and respect.
hillexallen 2 years ago
"civilization are good and deeply wired in all mammals"
sir, humans have survived (and thrived) for 99% of human history in TRIBES. Now you are saying that civilization is the only thing humans have known, know, and ever will know? are you suggesting that there is nothing that could possibly be better than civilization? Just because we DID build civilization doesnt mean we SHOULD build civilization.
hillexallen 2 years ago
Comment removed
crass770 2 years ago
that's not true. our system is not shared by the entirety of humanity. our system is one system out of an infinite number of systems.
humanity is not a synonym for "civilization."
zzz33333 2 years ago
Humanity is not the problem. It's the system...
DarthCheney420 2 years ago
how can we make that happen?
zzz33333 2 years ago
i don't see it that way. i don't see anything funny about 25,000 starvation deaths every day.
zzz33333 2 years ago
global warming and over population are nearly hard wired into everyones head after forty years of deeply embedded propaghana in every aspect of nwo controled media. a friend keeps quoting george carlin on overpopulation. thinks the world would be better off with only a few hundred thousand ppl. so why dont you be first in line at the fema death camp, all the tech we need to be independant is kept from us. if we could make our own power and grow our own food we wouldnt be their slaves. free
solomonkane23 2 years ago
... we CAN make our own power and grow our own food. we don't need industrial technology to do that.
zzz33333 2 years ago
Let's do it this way: you NWO-ers go blow up fema camps, police stations and gov. propaganda tools. We "tools of the NWO" will stick to blowing up dams, factory farming units, corporate buildings and forestry camps. Everybody gets to play with explosives, everybody's happy :D
stg213 2 years ago
look at a picture of the whole earth at night. lots of pinpoints of light. and 99% of world is black. they have us pinned down to the grid with wire. we grow enought food to feed the world 3 times over but 1/3 is eaten by rats and 1/3 is lost through mismanagement. we are pinned down in over populated cities. if we could live off the grid and spread out and. use solar, wind, geothermal, wave/tide for energy we wouldnt need oil. mismanaged on purpose so they have a plausable excuse,
solomonkane23 2 years ago
why do we need all that stupid technology??
zzz33333 2 years ago
you are a tool for nwo. global warming and overpopulation are a hoax to enable depopulation and eugenics. there is no warming, they want to tax the air and transfer wealth frm first world countries to third world countries and fund the un nwo.
you are fucked in the head. get an education dumbass.
solomonkane23 2 years ago
And when the nwo finally wipe out most of the population... there will be a brave new world... filled with rich elite... who will be served by ?!? who will be their slaves ??? When we are gone they would have to do everything!!! o|O Damn that sucks... Wealth useless... Power ? no more... Elites ? Elite who ? If they are the only ones left.... Believe me, to any rich folk the NWO scenario is more scary than to you or me ;)
stg213 2 years ago
Like2MilkGoats - what relevance does Baha'i have here? you're saying it's a religion that says humanity should unify, and you're behind it? the world already IS unified. one love, one heart, right?
the problem is our culture's dominance. if we relinquish the reigns, we'll all be Baha'is, essentially, immediately.
zzz33333 2 years ago
it's all a big game, huh?
zzz33333 2 years ago
wait a minute goats
a few comments ago i could have sworn you were saying money wasn't necessary
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
how does compost cure cancer?
how does compost cure human suffering?
zzz33333 2 years ago
well, "the message" says that the solution is to end civilization. nothing less will save us.
"good for you" says, all those people who THINK they're saving the world by saving THEMSELVES are self-centered and deluded.
zzz33333 2 years ago
hm. excuse me. i didn't know there was an obvious connection between compost and chemtrails.
i'm sure i'll find a bunch of other people who can explain to me how compost stops chemtrails.... (sarcasm)
zzz33333 2 years ago
....??? huh?
zzz33333 2 years ago
No monetary gain is earned from this video. Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Fair use is a use permitted by copyright statute that might otherwise be infringing. Non-profit, educational or personal use tips the balance in favor of fair use. Not to mention that taking this video down would be the height of irony.
softparade51 2 years ago
what did i win? what game are we playing?
zzz33333 2 years ago
not only have i watched it, but i've read it. did you know it was a book first? i bet you didn't.
i don't see how The Secret answers the question of how composting stops chemtrails?
zzz33333 2 years ago
i think i know pretty well.
i don't see how composting stops chemtrails?
zzz33333 2 years ago
how are chemtrails relevant here....?
zzz33333 2 years ago
go read, something, anything.
zzz33333 2 years ago
you obviously don't even know what an "ignoramus" is. for starters, it's a noun, not an adjective.
do you know the difference between nouns and adjectives....?
zzz33333 2 years ago
o wowowwewweewa!!!! that is so awsum. im so happy for you!
that is good for you!!!! i made a video just for you! it's called "good for you."
i bet you haven't even seen it....
zzz33333 2 years ago
wowowowwow!!!!
good for YOUUUUUU!
zzz33333 2 years ago
im shore it taist grate 4 u!
zzz33333 2 years ago
no goats, poisoning the water supply is what civilization does. if civilization were to end, there would be plenty of happy, healthy grandchildren to eat the abundant salmon who were able to actually return to their breeding grounds and lay eggs.
do you think that 'civilization' and 'life' mean the same thing?
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
ok guys, I need to leave for work. I just thought I'd stop by and reply to your question, penn.
I swear, we need to stop this "status quo" behavior of talking "at" each other and communicate.
Funny how lang has been around fore thousands of years and yet the further along we go, we communicate less, it seems.
sigh
blaziermissy 2 years ago
.... try reading my comments
zzz33333 2 years ago
I've read your comments and I understand the meaning of advance. But your frame of reference is molded. Step out of that mindset and realize that I'm not talking about advanced barbary.
blaziermissy 2 years ago
everyone's frame of reference is molded, until it is molded another way, and then another, and then another. you carry on as though you have not read (at least three of our posts,. or are for some reason utterly unwilling to address our concerns we have laid out.. because i MADE the EXACT same arguments you keep making for at least 10, probably 15 years of my life missy,.. and then i encountered another set of questions.. very difficult to answer philosophically and morally.. (cont)
gleefulsabotage 2 years ago
oops.. cont later..
gleefulsabotage 2 years ago
Continued- It's kind of like feeding the poor...charities can give to the poor, but with elitist Capitalist still making loans to poorer nations that cannot be paid back, you're pissing in the wind, so to speak. We need a resourced based society to end all of this corruption from monetary systems.
blaziermissy 2 years ago
Let me make this clear: lending to poor nations "KNOWING" they cannot pay it back it a result of Capitalism...it's a well oiled machine. It's about profit.....and it doesn't matter if indebting a 3rd world country puts the people there in poverty, a "profit" was made. Do you get my point?
blaziermissy 2 years ago
civilization is inherently capitalistic
zzz33333 2 years ago
eh not really. you can have communist and socialist and libertarian civilization too. but capitalism and civilization are two monsters that certainly feed each other well.
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
what is capitalism? wasn't Egypt capitalistic? were there not capitalists in ancient Rome, selling their crap cakes on the corner of the Acropolis?
capitalism is more than a political system. it's a way of being.
and, arguably, you CAN'T have a communist civilization! any true society that's actually communistic would have to be tribal.
.... eh? eh?
zzz33333 2 years ago
you're talking about philosophical ideals, and i'm talking about the actual systems that have been in place in human history on the earth
marx's communism has workers owning factories. i resist using the word 'communism' because of that context
it could be argued that other systems that distinguish themselves from capitalism are capitalism, if you define capitalism as turning life (plants, animals, water, air, human souls) into death (money)
but that's not the common working definition
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
hi penni,.. i would actually much agree with zzz on this one.. and not just a matter of semantics.. i think it would be more accurate to say marx's 'socialism' had workers owning factories, etc.. socialism was the mechanism marx presented for achieving communism,.. but marx himself and 'marxists' generally would have reserved the word 'communism' to indicate the stateless, moneyless, future, the gift economy.. though they wrote very little of it.
gleefulsabotage 2 years ago
i don't find his mechanism persuasive,.. few anarchists would.. but i think it is fair to say he would not call it communism.. that communism cannot have a civilization around it. and i agree regarding capitalism as well.. that it is rooted in the first commodification of life.. the sanskrit word capital is derived from; kaput.. which means 'head' or 'cattle' or 'head of cattle'.. i gleefully (wink) call myself a communist without worry for contradiction. but thats me.
gleefulsabotage 2 years ago
yeah i hear that and i love that meaning of the word, but i was referring to the mainstream definition of what has been called communism in practice in U.S.S.R, China, etc., not the ideal, or the goal of socialism (which is also seen as static in the mainstream, not dynamic like you're talking here)
haven't read marx in yonks--nice to get that distinction
heh
thanks
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
NO isms. I told you that before. None of these systems work. They're failures.
blaziermissy 2 years ago
missy, first, this is a conversation between me and z. we're not even discussing your beloved venus project.
second, you say "no isms"
but your system, based on anthropocentrISM and industrialISM and consumeriSM, works?
when will you address that core issue? this is easily the fourth time i've asked.
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
Penniless cripple wrote: "how will evironmental concerns be 'addressed and considered'? isn't that what the dominant culture is doing right now?
i repeat, i see no difference in the venus project and the current status quo, except there's an even larger element of fantasy
Activist & other environmental groups crop up all the time...and can make a small difference...but with Capitalism and it's expected behavior results, it will only be a short time b/f the same env. degred. continues.
blaziermissy 2 years ago
yes best to catch some wild salmon before they all go extinct do the the poisoning of the seas and the damming of the rivers
or, alternatively, you could do your best to end civilization so that your great grandchildren will be able to enjoy salmon as well
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
due to*
zzz33333 2 years ago
ignoramus
zzz33333 2 years ago
ooooh! good for you!
zzz33333 2 years ago
"You can preserve anything but meat I believe. "
"(what about jerky?)"
gleefulsabotage 2 years ago
dude,.. you read all of that, and "compost is not relevant huh?" is what you derived from it?
please?
gleefulsabotage 2 years ago
ya wolf
check out my 'just say no' video
i think you'd like it
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
(what about jerky?)
gleefulsabotage 2 years ago
duh
zzz33333 2 years ago
compost is barely relevant,.. and is by the way a poor substitute for the presence of vast ruminant herds, destroyed from almost everywhere, super-organisms for soil creation unmatched by human composting.
composting is a very personal solution, which is to say.. it IS interesting,.. no doubt many would like to know more, (i would.) make a VIDEO..
but what it has to do with THIS video, apart from a dadaist excursion, escapes me.
i know you think more deeply about this.
gleefulsabotage 2 years ago
damn gleeful you even make spot-on comments about compost
i trust you are writing a book or something
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
ha! no, no books.. as yet i only scribble manifestos onto passing clouds.. i fear it would become one long nonlinear sentence, though i do have a file folder full of first paragraphs which sneer at me.
gleefulsabotage 2 years ago
well please listen to them
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
any time you wanna respond to kingcrimson, gleeful, i'd be interested in what you would say
especially about the belief in 'perfection' and 'potential' and 'advancement'
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
i hate alex jones, and i don't use the phrase "enlightened."
also, childhood is a cultural concept.
also, pwnd.
zzz33333 2 years ago
recently someone was referencing alex jones and i noted that for the 15 or so years i have known of AJ, he and i have had exactly the same relationship as biily mays and i have enjoyed.
that is, that the relationships are identically abusive. whenever i have encountered either of them they were SCREAMING at me!, about a package deal.
and no doubt there are occasions for screaming,.. but yeah "occasions"..
anyhow.. pffft
gleefulsabotage 2 years ago
"don't know?"
i know what compost is. i just don't see what it has to do with this video. have you seen yet my video "good for you?"
zzz33333 2 years ago
Fair enough. But still it's just you, our whole world can't do it now.
And I expect you'd go into civilization if you got sick, right? Keep a little money for cases like that.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
king, goats' pipedream cannot be a reality in our current system
and all cultures have medicine. just most of them aren't as harmful as 'civilized' industrial medicine.
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
Civilized medicine done wrong sure, but there isn't really great potential from just natural medicine, though I do think natural medicine is great and at times can be all one needs.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
"if you don't like the world, change it! be the change you wish to see! practice what you preach!"
what are you, a voicebox? they recorded those soundbites in your brain and said, "now go be an environmentalist!"
remind me, Goats, what exactly do I preach? what's the change I wish to see? Do i want to change the world?
i bet you can't answer any of those questions.
zzz33333 2 years ago
wow, very good for you.
zzz33333 2 years ago
good for you!
zzz33333 2 years ago
check out my video called, "good for you!"
zzz33333 2 years ago
Yeah, in this capitalistic society, that's how it is... if we can make it not about consumption, maybe we won't even need jobs or money.
And even in an indigenous society... you'd still have to work a ton to grow food and sustain that way of life... especially with the population we have now.
You can go and surely support yourself in the wild though, if you bring a gun to hunt with, that is.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
I might agree that we have too many drugs... with too many side-effects. But drugs can be perfected, and besides, technology that can improve quality of life (and help medically) extends far beyond drugs.
Yeah, anti-semitism is bad. So is religion that divides us in the first place.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
if drugs could be 'perfected', how come they haven't been? are we waiting for some glorious tomorrow that's right around the corner?
vioxx was a perfect drug, and it killed god knows how many people--over 150K at least. i have heaps more examples
i have the distinct impression you haven't had much real-world experience with the modern 'miracles' of industrial medicine, king, because you are just parroting the standard propaganda of the dominant culture
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
Because we're not there yet... I think you underestimate what scientists are *capable of* doing... sure, the government has some of them making dangerous shit, but by no means all... and the positive potential is still there... I mean, do you think these guys are all idiots or something? They obviously see the potential in what they're doing.
We might be right around the corner, who knows... but I think it'll take longer than that.
continued...
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
continued...
Whatever pc, I hear their shit and your shit and I simply land more on "their" side apparently. How am I parroting propaganda? It's true that drugs can be made a lot better, if not "perfected" necessarily. That seems to be less propaganda than, "Dismiss all modern science! It can only do harm! There is no good that could ever come from it!"
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
I didnt say the words you quote as I rarely if ever use exclamation points.
how are you parroting propaganda? by repeating the central message of the dominant culture. consider that what youve absorbed from your culture might not be true.
Im having a hard time coming up with a benefit from industrial science and technology that isnt highly dubious—can you?
theres the externalized costs of production, use, and disposal. also if the benefit is not available to all, no thanks.
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
You didn't use those exact words but that's how extreme your position is.
I've considered that everything I've ever known might be a lie, down to my very senses... please don't give me that. I think you can see at this point I've thought about it for myself and that I simply see pursuing technology and a better civilization as more logical at this point than just tearing down the whole thing and living in tribes. Consider that, while some may dismiss any good things that can be learned from...
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
indigenous culture, they aren't necessarily wrong in the general idea that civilization isn't all bad.
I'm not entirely sure, but hasn't the average age increased since that time? And aren't there natural viruses and types of infections that we now have vaccines for (that actually work)? I'm no expert, but I'm sure an expert could go on for hours about the positives of modern science, and crystal clear, not dubious.
To your last point; UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE! ... would be a start... and maybe...
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
i'd take quality of life over quantity of life any day
our society boasts about longevity, thent treats our elders deplorably
longevity means the machine can get more (producing and consuming) years out of the slaves that way--that's why slave owners took 'such good care' of their slaves--it's more cost-effective
i'm no expert, but am sure there's *no* expert who could go on for hours about the (crystal clear, not dubious) positives of modern science
google 'superbug' & 'autism vaccines'
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
Treating elders deplorably is bad, no doubt.
Ok, now here you make it seem like the only reason modern medical science was advanced this far is due to some insidious plot by the civilization monster, in order to use the citizens to make the capitalist machine stronger... I think that instead, medical science was advanced to help people improve quality of life (and while civilization has caused problems, think about it, we've improved since the dark ages), but then this corrupt system twists...
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
the dark ages *was* civilization
of course i can't do it, but if you could do a cost/benefit analysis of modern medicine, i'm afraid you'd end up with some pretty scary statistics
medical errors alone are responsible for something like 100K-200K deaths per year, depending on who you talk to
that's at minimum 20 times the people lost on 9/11
i know a lot of people who have been harmed by industrial medicine in various ways. i'm sure you do too if you think about it.
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
I know the dark ages was civilization, the point is, civilization has gotten a lot better since that time. So who's to say it won't get better from now?
And about medical errors, those are due to a lack of advancement in the medical field, not too much.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
no civilization hasn't gotten a whole lot better since then
perhaps it has gotten better for the people at the top of the pyramid, if you define 'better' as 'having a whole lot more shit than everyone else'
okay so we just need more 'advancement'
funny that's what they've been saying for the entire ride of this juggernaut, and they'll say it as it plunges off the cliff
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
arguably, it's gotten worse. in the middle ages there were a hell of a lot more wild plants and animals left.
zzz33333 2 years ago
yeah you know it's not even arguable, is it? there was much more clean air and water, more autonomous communities
it's another meme of this society that we are always 'progressing' from bad to better
when people think of the 'dark' ages, they think of the plague--which was a result of people living in cities, which was a result of civilization
they think of the oppression of feudalism--civilization
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
... this positive for the people into something more positive for the machine. So as it is, it's fucked, but the pure potential of what medical science (and on a broader point, science in general) has achieved is far more than a government tool.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
okay so are you saying the problem is that the system is okay, but it's just corrupt? then what are the causes of the corruption? how can it be stopped?
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
medicine will become so efficient it won't even cost anything to administer so it will be easily available to everyone.
Not saying that'll happen though.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
'won't cost anything and is easily available to everyone?'
you just defined two of the key components of indigenous medicine
these are not and can never be components of industrial medicine, which is based on profit and production, not healing and caring for people
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
You keep saying this, but I keep saying that civilization doesn't necessarily have to based on profit and production... only this current flawed capitalism... in a system not like that, it will have the advantage of being available to everyone and also have far more possibilities than purely "indigenous" or basically, "untampered with by man" medicine.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
king i'm not saying humans should forget that washing vegetables before eating prevents illness
there's no need to throw out or forget what works
again, you seem to have an ethnocentric view of indigenous societies
most 'advances' in longevity are due to improvement in hygiene in cities, i.e. civilization. indigenous people were/are healthy & long-lived
civilization not based on profit and production isn't civilization. that's like wanting a sandcastle not built of sand
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I didnt say the words you quote as I rarely if ever use exclamation points.
how are you parroting propaganda? by repeating the central message of the dominant culture. consider that what youve absorbed from your culture might not be true.
Im having a hard time coming up with a benefit from industrial science and technology that isnt highly dubious—can you?
theres the externalized costs of production, use, and disposal. also if the benefit is not available to all, no thanks.
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
Apparently someone marked this as spam, I hope I didn't by accident, I'm clicking "not spam" but the effect isn't instant.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
Oh I see, you posted it twice, never mind.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
youtube comments are farked
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
Well that's good. I'm sure you'd be glad that, even if you don't want to immerse yourself in technology, that it exists so that if, for example you contracted a disease, there might be the treatment for it to help you get better, because of technology.
I was using "despise" in regards to z and pc's position on in. Pc actually said herself that she (I think Zack said "she" in regards to pc) despises technology... so I was saying that is a better word than "fear" for their position.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
I agree, so "despise" is a better word.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
Excellent Video! Just subscribed! I wish there were more than 5 stars!! I'll favorite this video and urge others to as well so it may be seen by as many as possible. Truly a great message that people really need to hear. Thanks for spreading the knowledge. I hope all that see this can take something away from it and make a step in the right direction. Thank you
TheDailyRon 2 years ago
what a nice comment
thank you
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
what a load of gibberish...
zzz33333 2 years ago
A basement is ideal. I just have them in a cupboard
ozjthomas 2 years ago
I have some frozen berries and am keeping my onions and potatoes in the dark. I am going to pick some more apples, too =)
ozjthomas 2 years ago
This is a good idea. We need a lot of different solutions. Community centers, places to teach about farming, all sorts of things are needed. We need to bring people back.
ozjthomas 2 years ago
wow, you're pulling THAT one on me?
i don't need to re-watch it. i've seen it enough.
the planet might NOT be fine. it IS possible to force ecosystems to collapse. if we force enough ecosystems to collapse then the planet dies. regardless, we're murdering countless living things right now, WITHOUT killing the planet. shouldn't we stop that, and protect those living things?
i don't think we have the right to say, "the planet will be fine." the planet is not currently fine.
zzz33333 2 years ago
I think it makes more sense to get to the people who want to listen, who want change and empower them instead of worrying about tasks that are impossible.
ozjthomas 2 years ago
I like carrots. Yum!
ozjthomas 2 years ago
Maybe we can replicate that scenario with TECHNOLOGY.
:P
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
You're using technology right now.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
What new system? Are you talking about the system that ozjthomas was proposing, the Iroqouis Nation style thing that is anti-technology? If so then no I was just refuting it.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
Okay, sorry for the wait pennilesscripple, but Im good on my word (I just wish we hadnt spread this over so many comments, lets try to streamline it as we go):
You say if civilization isnt based on profit and production, then it isnt civilization, and that big business is just a symptom of a sick system. But if you change the system, it wont be a sick one. (I think weve gone over this, Im going quick here, too many points).
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
Also, you say try being born at the bottom of the pyramind of civilization, in indiegous society, when times are good, everyone prospers... and vice versa... I would say that an advanced society doesnt have to be a pyramid, if its truly advanced, it solves the problem of heirarchy... maybe take that particular lesson from idigenous tribes, but having a greater quality of life where everyone prospers etc... were far from getting there.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
You say I get my ideas of indigenous culture from popular culture... these cultures are based on what is good for the land etc... 100s of people ran away from civilization to live like this... Well sure, many people would rather live that way, after living in this flawed industrial culture too long. Though the vast majority dont end up doing this, so I dont think that has much relevance. And about indigenous cultures being based on what is good for the land...
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
whos to say a better advanced (again, Ill use this word, expediency etc.) society cant find a way to be good for the earth or people? I think we went over some of these possibilities before.
And also, on a point you never responded to, what exactly do you have in mind for this anyway, you said earlier you dont want us to live in idigenous ways and that I was projecting that onto what you werre saying. I dont want to misrepresent you, what are you picturing?
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
Ill use my earlier example once again; do we keep farm tools but ditch the electronics? And if we achieve this, whats to stop some other part of the world from simply advancing again and becoming the Europeans to another areas native Americans? There wont be worldwide communication so we cant keep track of this kind of thing. Ive been responding to your points but have neglected several of mine.
Ok, you talk about being saddened when people get excited about technology, but then you...
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
... proceed to complain about the government bastradization of technology, not the pure potential of technology itself. There has to be a way to expound upon the quality of liffe improving technology without letting a flawed system twist the direction of it. There IS a way to do this, and if achieved, yeilds the best result. There is no way however, that man can acheive the end result that you propose (though maybe you want to clarify it so I dont misrepresent you).
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
Every generation thinks the last were fools etc... I certainly dont think this, and this line of thought should be heavily educated against.
This cultures religion is not technology will save us. But even if it was, its still better than God will save us. What I think is more of a religion than that though, is believing that our world can actually, or will actually collectively agree, at some point, to live in your idea of a indigenous lifestyle... (dont want to project but I dont
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
Youtube is deleting my quotes and apostrophes because I copy pasted from Appleworks. I think it even misspelled some words... but anyway...
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
... know what else you could be proposing).
Tribal warfare is tribes fighting. The power of the community might stop violence within the community, but only within. Violence between them and the others, would still exist, and now that we have more peolple than ever it would be even worse. Seriously, what are you picturing here?
With the bufffalo, how the hell would it be any different? Thats how civilization operates, not indigenous cultures. What would change? continued...
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
Again, here I'm quoting you when you said, "Thats how civilization operates, not indigenous cultures"... but it doesn't look like it because of fucking youtube.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
Youd still have people competing for resources. There are too many people now, we need to find a way to create resources as per my idea earlier.
You say:
one misconception you seem to have is that you think i'm saying 'we must all live like x tribe'. i'm just saying that indigenous cultures *work* and civilization doesn't, and we can draw inspiration from them
we wouldn't live like them. for one thing, we have way too much shit.
Define works. Its sustainable. Well, civilization or...
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
... rather, technological society doesnt have to be unsustainable. Ive always said we can draw inspiration from them.
But if we wouldnt live like them, partly do to having too much shit, what would you have us do? Like I said, I think I need a clarifier on your position.
Anyway, there it is, take your time responding, I went and responded to everything that I hadn't, but we can just figure out the key points and go from there.
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
i think you're missing some key points here, KingCrimson... namely this is not all pontification and postulation. civilization is inherently unsustainable, inherently violent and exploitative. there is no way to have a civilization that is not these things. it doesn't really matter what we "think" is possible.
it's like, you can't have a warm ice cream cone. if you had a warm ice cream cone, it wouldn't be an ice cream cone. it doesn't matter what you "think" is possible.
zzz33333 2 years ago
It doesn't matter what you think is impossible. You can't actually prove that ANY form of civilization is unsustainable. But what can be proven is that technology has the potential to improve the quality of life greatly... and I guess that's the essence of the disagreement between you (and pc) and I. I wonder at the possibilities (while noting the danger), you guys fear them inherently. But I'd say you only need fear (or rather, despise) the current flawed system's bastardization of technology..
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
not the thing itself.
Besides, like I said, "whats to stop some other part of the world from simply advancing again and becoming the Europeans to another areas native Americans?"
Even if we could get to that point, it would be an endless cycle. The only way to break free of it is make this "advanced" thing work, and in the process create a world better than we ever had before. I can't just be ok with the idea that we were never meant to explore space and use our full inventive potential. That
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
consider that we were given a perfect world that works very well, and that man's idea that he can improve on something so miraculous is nothing but hubris, which is, very obviously, leading to his destruction
explore space? for what? nasa gets its funding because of its military research/potential
you keep using the words 'advanced' and 'perfect'--can you define them?
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
See, this is why I said you had an idealist vision before... how about you consider that the world in itself is not perfect because much suffering exists naturally... and perhaps, if done right, and in the right system, man's ability to invent can in fact one day reduce the overall suffering of all beings immensely.
You act like this idea of man that he can improve it is "unnatural" or something. If that's so then humankind is unnatural. When man looks around and sees something he can improve
KingCrimson776 2 years ago
there is the 'natural' suffering that comes from cycles of birth and death, and then there is the highly unnatural suffering that comes at the hands of industrial technology. do you really need a list? we can start with bombs and napalm and work backwards to coal mines and automobiles and hospitals.
it's hard for me to believe anyone can look at the miracle that is this earth and not see that she doesn't need 'fixing', and that humans don't know what the fuck they are doing
pennilesscripple 2 years ago
I think we went through the bombs and napalm, I don't like those things, and I don't think they are an inherent outcome of civilization. And really, in most parts of the world, those things aren't really all that prevalent... and they can become even less, until we get rid of them. This is possible.
You ask me to define terms, now you define 'natural' and 'unnatural'. Isn't anything that occurs 'natural'... being literal of course, but the point is, if by 'unnatural' means, 'natural' and...
KingCrimson776 2 years ago