David Long on the ALG Method, Part 2

[dancupid]

I can comprehend a Shakespeare play, but I doubt I could speak in this way - comprehension far surpasses speaking ability in one's native language. Speaking naturally follows from comprehension. Without comprehension you can't even begin to try to speak. (ie I agree)

[davidvlong]

Thanks for your comments WilkinsMichael. I'd like to address this in two parts. Nearly everyone I know speaks at least one language. It doesn't stand to reason that if learned a language once when young, it's next to impossible just because we're older. Only 1 success story should be enough to at least question the myth that adults can't learn a new language as children do. Our language program at AUA has survived, largely by word-of-mouth for over 20 years. That ought to say something I think.

[WilkinsMichael]

Part of the problem is it is hard to do research in this field. You either have to shrink what you are looking at to make it scientifically valid and then extrapolate back out to the classroom or look at and compare classroom practices or methods (my preference) but not be able to prove anything scientifically as there are too many variables to account for.

[davidvlong]

@WilkinsMichael - additionally, the real model, which everyone sees everywhere is that children naturally acquire a language through play, and soaking up experiences. As an adult learning Thai, I did too and that's on video but it doesn't matter. 1, 20, or 1000 people who have are never enough to change a person's mind. The best language learners are children. Throw out the analytical stuff we associate with language learning, try to replicate what happens for children and adults can to.

[WilkinsMichael]

Great videos and great ideas, I like what you guys are doing!!! However I have to sympathize with anicca, so many teacher trainers/authors make big claims and when you go to their school/classes you see their results are not really so different than your own or that the basic situation is different.

[anicca000]

?what the? could you show us any of these native-like speakers of Thai? or any other students? You are making some exciting claims but they are difficult to believe...

[algworld]

@anicca000 - From time to time people ask this question and it's always difficult to know the motivation. If you'd like me to introduce you to some of them, write me at david@auathai.com and I'll do so via email. For me, the overwhelming evidence is all around us - Nealy everyone learns languages perfectly without classes and teachers - we call this native and all we're saying is that this ability doesn't go away with age.

[anicca000]

@algworld ...with great respect, the overwhelming evidence is that chlidren learn in a completely different way. You cannot (as an adult) learn a SECOND language the same way a child learns their FIRST...

[algworld]

@anicca000 If the only evidence available comes from adults who studied in modern adult ways, we would expect the evidence to reflect what it does. On the other hand, conducting studies on adults who have acquired through life, has never to my knowledge been attempted. We are working on this however. :)

[anicca000]

@algworld... good luck with your research, have you published any of these studies? I would be interested in reading them.

I suppose the thing that bugs me is the language used in promoting this and other schemes. It is very misleading to thing of learning a second language as a NATURAL process. What do we mean natural? The process is cognitive, social, affectice, but NATURAL (post-Krashen thinking)? If it was then no instruction would be necessary, which is demonstrably not the case...

[algworld]

@anicca000 Thanks so much for your comments. I understand what seems misleading, however from our perspective, the closer language 'teaching' gets to the natural process the better. We keep trying to push those limits as far as possible. We are based on Krashen's ideas. In the early part of "From the Outside In" (see algworld.com archives) you can find reference to adults who did in fact acquire language naturally - without teachers, classrooms or the like.

[anicca000]

@algworld... i have read some articles on the website.. unfortunately they offer no evidence, no real theory..terms (like natural speaking, memory vs memories, talking without thinking [??], conscious vs unconscious)) are undefined... this ignores decades of scientific research in the TESOL field... where are all these fluent thai speakers you must have? sorry to be critical but there are too many people promising special, magic methods that don't exist, and this is another...

[TheBigRedOwl]

If listening is the most importan to learn any language, then every method in diferents types, ways , oresentations should focus on develop education material tools based on listening. The rest, speaking, writing , grammar reading , pronunciation are consequences.

[algworld]

We like to think in terms of input and output. Listening (and looking) are the inputs for speaking. Reading is the input for writing. Things like grammar, pronunciation, and such are intrinsic in language acquisition, and under normal circumstances don't need to be taught at all.

[loki2504]

Listening is soooooo important when it comes to learn foreign languages !