Wing Commander 3: Revenge on Hobbes - Part 2

[chrismc410]

I don't know if the Terran Confederaion Military does it or not but do you think it would have helped if Eisen had Blair flogged for this?

[NSAThrace]

Well this isn't Cannon. I think you take out Hobbes and Thrakkath on the final run on Kilrah...seriously sucks about Hobbes though. Dammned Kilrathi identity overlay projects!!!!!!!!!!!

[brujahziggy666]

I had to stop watching. Too much spray and pray

[Skylinesandsunsets]

Blair did the right thing. If Hobbs had returned back to his homeworld, he would have revealed everything he knew about the T-bomb to his Kilrathi superiors. Vaquero's death was not in vain, because Blair prevented a major intelligence leak big enough to lose the entire war.

[Ares99999]

Eisen's an idiot in this scene.

[FekLeyrTarg]

I don't see why. Can you explain why, please?

If you think Eisen's an idiot because he's pissed: He had the right to be pissed since 2 of his pilots died and another one disobeyed him.

[Ares99999]

Tactically, immediately going after Hobbes, who knew far too much information on TC deployments and last-ditch plans, was sound.

Eisen should respect that Blair's one of the most experienced fliers around and cut him a little slack. Especially as Blair commands the Air Wing - which is by far the most important posting on the ship - and that he's earned the rank of colonel, which equals Eisen's naval captain rank.

Be pissed, but don't talk to you best pilot like he's some rookie.

[Guntank]

At the same time, it's most likely what Thrakhath anticipated Blair would do --- had Blair not gotten back to the Victory in time, the Victory might've been destroyed by the Paktahns and their Torpedoes --- that's a pretty hefty rookie mistake, if you ask me.

Especially since Thrakhath already tried nearly the *exact* same trick earlier with the video of Angel being murdered.

[Ares99999]

Blair isn't the only skilled pilot protecting the Victory. Is Eisen expecting him to protect the ship by his lonesome?

I'm surprised Blair didn't tell him to respectfully mind his own business. Vaquero died because he got unlucky. Period. Blair is guiltless. Eisen was a fool here.

[MarcusTrinnias]

To be fair, one of those other skilled pilots died defending that ship. However, Blair is an almost supernaturally skilled pilot. He's infact, half-pilgrim, which are a type of people who have an innate ability to pilot, well above the achieveable skills of most other confed pilots. In the time of the Terran-Kilrathi War, very, very few pilots ever achieved the levels Blair did. Maniac was one example. However, don't discount Kilrathi Pilots either. All it takes is two lucky torpedo shots.

[Ares99999]

Even taking that into account, one must remember that Blair was very likely in a weird state of mind over the shock of Hobbes' betrayal. Eisen should have been capable of understanding that. A carrier captain who can't even try to understand the man leading his fighter wings is incompetent.

[MarcusTrinnias]

It's also quite likely that Eisen too is in a weird state of mind. He lost two pilots, effectively like losing family. Hobbes was also his second-in-command, there was definitely a lot of trust between those two which was betrayed. Eisen likely served with both Cobra and Vaquero far longer than Blair. They've both taken emotional hits, and given that, I think Eisen's feelings are justified. He may be a Captain, but he's also a human being.

[Ares99999]

True, but Blair is a human being, too. And Eisen, more than Blair, is the one who should never lose his cool. Lucky for Eisen, Blair is a respectful soldier. I still think Eisen was highly unreasonable. Not Blair's fault Vaquero wasn't good enough to hold his own.

Blair made a mistake. But given all the times Blair's flying saved the Victory, Eisen might have deigned to give the most skilled pilot on the ship a break for losing it this ONE time. Its not like Blair made it a habit.

[MarcusTrinnias]

I think, we can perhaps chalks this one up to the two of them being in extremely emotional states. Saying he should never lose his cool however, is like saying Blair should never lose his cool either. They're all Soldiers. Regardless, words were said in anger. Losing yourself in the heat of the moment is not a crime, nor does it seem truly fair to label Eisen as 'incompetant' for letting his feelings get the better of him just once.

[Ares99999]

Alright, but I'll label Eisen as 'unfair', though. I mean, accusing his best pilot of losing his cool while losing his own?

Lame.

And enough of this. We'll never agree.

[MarcusTrinnias]

Actually, I thought it was rather invigorating to have a level-headed conversation about this particular scene. Valid points were made, which is most excellent.

[Ares99999]

Fine, then.

I label Eisen as unfair to Blair in here. Blair was in a lousy mental disposition. Hobbes had been a trusted friend, and the fact that this trust had been betrayed, leading to the death of a pilot, shook him to the core. That another pilot died fighting in a battle - which, unlike Eisen seems to imply - wasn't caused by Blair, because that'd be like saying Blair would leak Confed secrets - only added to the turmoil.

The last thing he needed right then was more verbal abuse.

[MarcusTrinnias]

Oh, I wasn't trying to prolong the discussion. I was just pointing out that we both made good points, and it was nice to see a levelheaded discourse on youtube for once.

[Ares99999]

All I'm saying is: for all his work, Blair deserved better than what Eisen gave him. Pointing him out as the sole reason the unlucky Vaquerro bought it is insulting to Vaquerro himself. What, did Vaquerro, an experienced combat pilot, need Blair to hold his hand? Did Flint, Cobra, Maniac, Vagabond.

No. They're good pilots. They can take care of themselves. Blair is not to blame.

[MarcusTrinnias]

You're looking at it from a purely pilot standard. One could feasibly point out that, had Blair not left to pursue Hobbes, then the Victory could have jumped out and avoided the ambush in he first place, which would have resulted in Vaquero never being placed in the position he was, and thus avoided his death. Granted, Hobbes knew things, but it isn't unreasonable to assume he'd already been able to spill the beans to the Kilrathi in the time it took Blair to chase him down.

[Ares99999]

One could also feasibly point out that Vaquerro would have died anyway, and that its not Blair's fault in the least. It doesn't change the fact that Eisen was unfair on that point.

[MarcusTrinnias]

Possibly, but as the alternate path of the game shows, if you do not pursue Hobbes, Vaquero does survive. Eisen points out that they needed every good gun they had, and Blair left them one gun short chasing after Hobbes, who probably already told the Kilrathi details regarding the T-Bomb. Effectively accomplishing little besides offing a traitor and satisfying a need for revenge. I understand Blair's actions, but I understand Eisen's point of view too.

[Ares99999]

The alternate path? What does that have to do with anything? Could either man be aware of what the alternate path is?

If you wish to go into gaming dynamics to prove a point, I'm sorry to say that Vaquerro is generally considered less useful than Maniac or Vagabond for big missions. His loss was no loss.

[MarcusTrinnias]

True, but neither man was thinking about the repercussions of their actions. If they had stopped to consider things with their head, instead of their heart, Blair may have seen that following Eisen's command was wiser in the longterm. Flying with their heart was the same thing Blair chewed out Flint for. Personally from a gameplay standpoint, nobody comes close to the Maniac Machine, though Vagabond and Cobra are a close second. Albeit Maniac has about as pleasent a disposition as a cactus.

[Ares99999]

Its the fact that Blair tends to think with his heart and not his head which made him follow Eisen into open rebellion a few years later.

[MarcusTrinnias]

Indeed, now if he'd showed that willingness to follow Eisen now, Vaquero might've lived to open up his Cantina. Though to be equally fair, the circumstances during the Black Lance affair were far different from disobeying an order and going renegade to carve revenge into the hull of a Thunderbolt. At least in this War, the enemies are clear and straight forward.

[Ares99999]

Or, Vaquerro might not have lived in either case. I tend to believe that myself.

[FekLeyrTarg]

Jason Bernard did a great job in the last scene.

[LightStreak567]

Damn I had no idea Vaquero dies if you choose to take revenge... I'm sure glad you didnt actually choose this option

[JoshuatheKodiak]

Dave, if you use Dosbox, select the Roland SCC-1 (There are actually two Roland's, I kinda forgot which one was besT) next time for the music card of this game. Dosbox supports it, and the music sounds much better.

[FekLeyrTarg]

But DosBox's video/sound capturing feature doesn't work with General MIDI and Roland.

[JoshuatheKodiak]

Ah. Thanks for pointing that out.

[FekLeyrTarg]

No problem.

But if you want to record DosBox videos with Roland or GM, you can do this with FRAPS, GrowlerGuncam and similar programs.

[FaxModem1]

Glad this was just an option and you didn't take revenge.

[Gr1Ng00]

that dude with tha pink sticks in the hangar ..(he looksso funny all the time) ^^

[minzoferrari]

Funeral for two. Ouch.

[MarcusTrinnias]

Poor Vaquero...

[ghettoprince187]

Damn, Eisen is pissed...I dont blame him.