Breastplate of righteousness

[TheGoldenmace]

your confused

[bluesette82]

Umm, we can't change ourselves. Only God can do that.

[peoplearemessedup]

@bluesette82 ??? so god controls you?

[bluesette82]

@peoplearemessedup The Bible teaches us that we are slaves to sin before God enables us to accept Christ. It isn't in the nature of slavery for a slave to be able to free him/herself. Someone has to free the slave, you see? When we are sinners, we cannot do anything but sin. God is the one who draws us to himself and enables us to choose Christ, and then changes the desires of our hearts. If I said that I chose God and you didn't because of some merit of my own, I'm saying I earned salvation

[bluesette82]

@peoplearemessedup Also, read Ephesians 2:4-7. It says that when we were dead in transgressions God MADE US ALIVE. It's by grace ONLY that we've been saved. My question is: How does a dead man raise himself up into life? Answer is obvious, he cannot. God does the raising, God does the life-giving. So yes, God controls us all. And he does it, according to Ephesians 2:4-7, because he loves us greatly and is so very rich in mercy.

[peoplearemessedup]

@bluesette82 So he controls us all? Then how do we have free will? How come he KNOWS who is going to go to hell. If he was merciful would he not create anyone who would eventually go to hell?

[bluesette82]

@peoplearemessedup Well, you're getting to a fork in the road now I think. I don't believe people have free will unless God enables them to have it. It's all in the Bible. Look at the story about Pharoah and how God hardened his heart 6 times so that he would say no to Moses. Read Romans ch. 9, where it says that before Esau and Jacob had ever been born or done anything wrong, God loved Jacob and hated Esau. The gospel of John tells us no one comes to God unless God enables him to(cont)

[peoplearemessedup]

@bluesette82 so you think that god controls everyone even you? and that you can't do anything without his will? That is not free will. If god sometimes gives you free will and other times controls you then what was the point of adam and eve? Did he learn his lesson that free will is bad for humans?

[bluesette82]

@peoplearemessedup The first epistle of John says that love is this: Not that WE loved God, but that God loved us. You see? It's God who pursues us first, not us who decide to pursue Him. The Bible also says that God does not desire for anyone to be lost and go to hell, but the question is, does God act on this desire for everyone, or not? The Bible tells us he does not. He was not merciful to Goliath, he chose Judas as a disciple, knowing that Judas would betray, indeed, it was essential.

[bluesette82]

@peoplearemessedup in 1st Corinthians we're told that the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing. That means that in order for us to accept it, find it beautiful, find it to be the center of the universe, first someone's got to change our dying state....or else we'll find it to be stupid forever. It's impossible for an unregenerate heart to see the beauty and grace in the gospel. Okay, well, sorry for rambling on so long, hope this helped somewhat :)

[peoplearemessedup]

@bluesette82 it did help me understand the christian viewpoint alot more but I have just one last question for you when you say "The Bible tells us he does not [act on his desire for us to go to heaven for everyone](if you think i messed up your quote please correct me) does that mean that god does NOT love us? He seems to have no affection for us if that is the case. If it hurts god to do so then why not change the world so he does not have to bring pain on himself?

[bluesette82]

@peoplearemessedup God doesn't operate that way, otherwise what would be the point of anything in the first place? If God could have just imagined what all creation would be like, and known it would be so, why did he actually make it? For that matter, what is our purpose here? I think most people have a distorted notion that existence is all about us, and (cont)

[bluesette82]

@peoplearemessedup God's a supporting actor, hiding behind the trees just waiting for us to need him, or have a problem so he can fix it and we can go back to us being the star of the showageThat's not what life is about. Everything has one primary purpose, which is to reflect God's glory, and we humans are the crowning glory of his creation because we bear his image...we're also able to create, we're able to experience, I don't know...we're almost like a reflection of God himself.

[bluesette82]

@peoplearemessedup All that to tell you that God loves us in a way words CANNOT describe. The Bible is one long, heartbreaking story of how he wanted to love us and us Him...the Bible uses the comparison of marriage, we were His bride, but we, or Israel, rather, kept acting the whore with any idol that came along, prostituting ourselves...I would recommend you to read the book of Hosea in the Bible. It's a real man God uses to play out the heartwrenching way He loves us...

[bluesette82]

@peoplearemessedup So, the situation is this: We all are sinners, who, if things were fair, would have died yesterday, because that is what we good and well deserve. The fact that you are breathing and thinking is proof that God loves you and is giving you the opportunity to come to Him and be embraced by his grace.

No one can argue that it isn't fair, because if you WANT grace, it is yours.The Bible says that we are saved by grace through faith, and faith comes by the preaching of the Word.

[peoplearemessedup]

@bluesette82 so god makes you, then he gives you very little evidance that he exists and says I am giving you this book now believe it or burn. The only proof the bible is true is that the bible says it is true. So I think god does not exist. If he did exist he would be a ASSHOLE. He controls us(at least some of the time) he made us reflections of him so no wonder why people are ASSHOLES. It all makes sense now. A ASSHOLE god made ASSHOLE people who would not love him after he gave them(cont)

[bluesette82]

@peoplearemessedup God gives proof of himself everywhere!!! :D Or do you think we're all on this blue ball surrounded by other balls orbiting around a star, in a galaxy among millions of other galaxies is all just chance?? He was telling us something about himself when he did that, you know! Just look around you and you'll see signs everywhere. God doesn't want us to believe or burn, he wants us to believe because he wants what is best for us. He doesn't need us, we need Him.

[peoplearemessedup]

@bluesette82 a life filled with torment and suffering and then a eternity of suffering(regardless if you go to heaven or not) If god loved us he would NOT make us live for eternity. Life has no meaning without a end.

[bluesette82]

@peoplearemessedup I don't know what else to tell you,man. I think that it is worse to live your life believing the lie that you are captain of your own destiny..which, as you lie dying, you'll have to recognize was false. There's only one thing that can save us from this body of death, and that's Christ. God has only ever done good to us, shown us mercy, love....anything bad that happens to us is our fault, not His.

[bluesette82]

@peoplearemessedup God wills to know the actual, lived out reality of our preference for him over all things. And he wills that we have the testimony of our own authenticity through acts of actual preference of God.over his gifts(his gifts are what we usually idolize). A real, lived-out human act of preference for God over his gifts is the actual lived-out glorification of God's excellence for which he created the world

[bluesette82]

@peoplearemessedup ....(that's an excerpt from a book by John Piper, you should look him up on youtube, he's got some great videos that address these types of questions...thanks for talking with me, God bless you!!)

[peoplearemessedup]

@bluesette82 thanks for talking with me to, May peace be in your heart

[bluesette82]

@peoplearemessedup thanks, man! Christ brought peace to my heart, and he offers the same to you, to quote His words in John 14:27: Peace I leave with you; My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Do not let your heart be troubled, nor let it be fearful.I pray you accept Him today...or at least don't stop your search with this conversation. Don't settle for what the world gives, and its lies, but keep thirsting for the truth,don't ever stop till you find it!! ;)

[peoplearemessedup]

@bluesette82 dude can we just stop this conversation srry but It's kinda dragging on anyway I think the world has more truth then any book. Everything I can sense seems to have some purpose that can be found through a scientific mindset. Perhaps I could accept Christianity if it did not differ so much and was so muddled with uncertainty.

May Peace be in your heart to me means may you think beyond instinct and consider compassion as compassion is ultimately greater then love. as love may blind.

[bluesette82]

@peoplearemessedup Gotchya. Sorry for dragging you down. Bye.

[BlindedByEvil]

@bluesette82 all hearts r evil,for wht to do

Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.6 In all thy ways acknowledge him,and he shall direct thy paths.

7 Be not wise in thine own eyes:fear the LORD,and depart from evil

Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all, things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

10. I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins,even to give every man according to his ways,and according to the fruit of his doings.

[bluesette82]

@BlindedByEvil I'm with you 100% on the evil heart thing. That's why Philippians 2:13 rings so true, "For it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose." Also, take a look at: Ephesians 1:4-5, "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will."

[bluesette82]

@BlindedByEvil Jer. 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin or the leopard its spots? Neither can you do good who are accustomed to doing evil.

Truth is, my friend, that if we had the capability to change our sinful nature, we'd have no need for the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross.  Many religions teach that we are able to change ourselves, that we can earn our salvation by becoming purer, becoming enlightened. Christianity teaches grace only.

[BlindedByEvil]

@bluesette82 yep very good, but why then do u use the word control when it is clearly obeying?

[bluesette82]

@BlindedByEvil Yeah, but the question still remains, why do people start obeying? I don't know, everyone seems to feel it's a bad thing that God controls everything and everyone. I personally find it to be probably the most comforting and beautiful notions that my brain has ever stumbled upon. He is totally sovereign. No one's going to lose their salvation because I got up on the wrong side of the bed one morning or something.

[BlindedByEvil]

@bluesette82 no question remains, u hav just comfused yur self...

[BlindedByEvil]

@bluesette82 no u hav to change yur self for god tells you how u should live yur life, John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Mat 7:24 Therefore whosoever, heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock.  This is towards the end of the sermon on the mount. So where does it say we are controled by god?? you can choose what ever way u want to go........

[snocamo154]

The Breastplate of Righteousness is Christ's righteousness imputed to believers. It's plenty shiny for me.

[redelf369]

If you try to change everyone else and you do not try to change yourself first then you are a hypocrit.

[discofeeny]

seems very self-centered to me.

"change everyone? i'm just trying to change myself."

[red3tipped3rose]

Myself is the only one I can change. Other people will then hopefully catch on. Its all about taking out my own speck first.

[JamesGaulden]

The great part is the way the verse actually says it.

The speck is in our friend's eye, while the LOG is in our own.

Almost always we are the 'problem', so to speak.

[cthomps0n]

Funny!