2:27 ABSOLUTELY. "Why are you so angry?" "Dry drunk" ET CETERA. No, we're not failures, we're not even using drugs....or drinking at all or in excess, nor are we dwelling on drugs or alcohol...wait, we moved on? Oooops....was that the biggest 12 step no-no? Getting on with our lives? I forget, I thought it was "jails, institutions or death", none of which we have anything to do with. And BTW, you received your doctorate where? That's what I thought.
AA is a sick, toxic, and unhealthy environment. I speak from experience afte rspending four years in the rooms and dealt with countless hours of guilt and uneducated and misguided "suggestions". I have found freedom of the power of AA and it's destructive mind washing. I am healthy, and do not go to meetings. I encourage people who feel tied to AA to start thinking for themselves. You do not have to attend AA or so the steps to "recover" from anything.
Wait till I start making video's, the meeting's in my little hamlet are so over the top sick and twisted and chock filled with creeps, perverts and one full fledged sexual preditor. After years of looking the other way and apologizing for bad behavior of other's and playing my own sick game's the truth need's to be told. With so many young women messed up on herion and pill's and in a bad way their family AA is easy pickins for anyone wanting to take advantage...
If you read the ' Alcoholics Anonymous Big Book', page 185 (4th edition)- Dr G. Kirby Collier (psychiatrist) states his opinion is that it can be proved that AA has a success -'recovery' rate of 50-60% (1944).
If you do not like AA, then don't go, simple as that. Some of us "got it" and some didnt. I will not lose any sleep whether you drink, die, or go insane, or if you live a perfectly normal life for that matter. - Grateful to be sober, sane, and free, in AA
There is enough information - in print and on line - for people to learn what AA is actually all about. If people get caught up in it, they had the opportunity to do otherwise.
To heyanto: AA is not religion, so please get the right info, before comment. Ive been sober for 17 months with help from my higher power and AA freinds. I never cared much about religion. Where did you hear about the succes rate? Anyway its not true, and finaly...nobody brags, infact we share soberity, hope and joy and many people get a new life.
@PhilLynottfan The evidence for AA being a religion is compelling. Google "AA Triennial Surveys" for the 3-5% citations, also referenced in AA historical documents. Mike
I am happy you are sober. I say that with complete sincerity. I know from personal experience how difficult it is to overcome an addiction. The supreme court of New York, Wyoming, and several other states have ruled it unconstitutional for a state court to mandate 12-step meetings as part of their probation as it constitutes a violation of the seperation of church and state. They have ruled that the 12-step tradition is religious in nature. By the way, I'm also a huge Phil Lynott fan.
@PhilLynottfan AA is religion it requires "turning on'e will over to a higher power a.k.a. god, or to play semantics, a god of your understanding. every higher court has heard the matter has held that aa is too religious in nature to be considered otherwise for second amendment purposes
a good analogy is "intelligent design", the courts have held that the "intelligent designer" is god, just as "higher power" is god, you are told to seek through prayer and mediation, prayer is to god
Thanks for your videos. 12 step is a religion, pure and simple. If you need religion to quit drinking (drugs, gambling, whatever) that's fine, but don't tell people 12 step is the only way. The success rate of 12 step is somewhere between 3% and 5%. Nothing to brag about.
I am very gald that my involvment in AA was minimal. And, I got my act together without the 'help' of AA. The comments madr by the defenders of AA demonstrate to me that I made the correct choice to leave. I cannot recommend AA.
wow sorry you went to a bad meeting and talked to the wrong people. Not all meetings a re right 4 every one. Some meetings are dictaterships. To bad gives the good ones a bad name. Most of the shit on here for posts is crap, personal feelings about a personal incident. GROW UP! Even I can twist the bible to sound inconcievibly terrible.
Talk about crap posing as posts, nothing like being your own example. I've been to about four thousand meetings, and they all read the same toxic literature, and promote the same toxic dogma. Mike
@blamethenile OMG all of my videos seem to get the identical AA posts you went to the wrong meeting, you had the wrong sponsor, you are directing your won anger issues at aa, you are incapable of being honest sitting down shutting up and learning something, you are taking it out on the group that saved your life, you really want to drink and want aa to blame,dont criticize if you dont have a better plan and and my favorite, you are killing people by keeping them from aa
The entire message of AA is dishonest. It is sorely out-dated too, because there are huge advancements towards solutions for problems associated w/ addiction that are based on reality. AA is about God or whiskey. AA does preach a twisted, untrue message about God. Alcohol is a man-made poison & drinking it is a behavior not an uncurable spiritual disease. That even sound absurd. If you are poisoned you need detox not the 12-steps that are really the secret 13-steps. Shhh don't tell newcomers.
alcoholics are assholes, anything that temporarily relieves their asshholism is a good thing, even though it doesn't last. I'd rather e with an asshole who is trying to recover than an asshole with no hope of vaguely acting human.
AA and ACOA nearly ruined my family. I was told that my dad was in denial and therefore somehow defective. Our relationship was better before I got involed with ACOA and improved after I realized 12 steps is utter hogwash. When I developed a drinking problem, I almost went to AA. I thought I had a disease, that I was hopeless. Guess what? I barely drink at all anymore. I am not hopeless or diseased. I just took responsibility for MY actions. The disease model is a cop-out.
Denial, eh? Suffice to say, we hear that one a lot. The most hard-core born-again stark raving sobers I know came out of ACOA. Glad things are working out for you now. Thanks for the post. Mike
Thank you for speaking out & sharing that these programs nearly ruined your family. For one: they isolate family members away from eachother & for two: sponsors cause huge communication break-downs giving advice about people they don't even know. I agree the disease model is BS it is killing my sister, because society believes Bill W? an alcoholic who created his own spiritual disease and successfully sold it to millions of vulnerable people. Don't think, don't feel, repress your anger? Weird~
It took a very long time for me to change my paradigm away from being a disgusting, diseased, weak person into what I am today. It took years to repair the relationship with my father. This is why it's so dangerous. It doesn't only affect the person attending meetings, it affects the family and friends of 12 steppers just as much.
By staying away from AA & distancing myself from all the members I can finally think & feel what is "real" & there are hundreds of better resources to use for addressing problems. What AA teaches is horrid, and I agree it effects: the rest of society spouses, family, friends, children. I like how AA isolates these people into seperate groups? How is that suppose to bring families together. I also like AA saying be aulturistic, but then it is none of your business even about your own kids Creepy!
The abuse is for your own good. After all, your best thinking got you here. So, best to take the cotton out of your ears and put in your mouth. We wll love you until you can love yourself!!
It is funny how I have heard those same words over & over the first 2 years I was in the program being love-bombed the first, questioning the 2nd, & the 3rd year experiencing the abuse directly & I got very sick. On Orange Papers when he spoke of bait & switch love-bombing and then abuse tactics ... it save my life: I knew that what I was experiencing was not "me" & my imagination. It still isn't "me" in relationship to our society's fraudulant faith based recovery programs: all 100% fraud.
(M) I feel like the AA/Alanon curse is broken for me. As I research and view my alcoholic family: none of AA applies. Not to mention AA encourages dysfunctional behaviors. The alcoholic still has control to negatively effect the people who have tolerated them drunk in similar ways in recovery more neglect & abuse. The family deserves you to change at home & not to spend your life running around 12-stepping other drunks. They have a right to be angry about your AA/Alanon lifestyle.
I met several people in AA who were suffering w/ 10+ yrs. in the program still being tossed around looking for the solution? "Any" program claiming to know the path of God solving "all" your problems is a "red flag" to run away. In AA they don't even talk about any truth in regards to alcoholism. I kept listening to hear something of real value and as of today I can't think of one positive thing I learned at AA. The covert & overt abuse in AA as a solution doesn't work for me.
My experience with AA made it clear to me that many in AA were abusers and hid behind tough love as an excuse to hurt and abuse members with very low self-esteem and further damage them.I don't think I have ever met so many bullies in one place and sadly so many who just didn't believe they deserved better.I observed the bullies really getting off on hurting others-they seem to get a little rush from their so called tough love.Looked like S and M to me.
In response to tough love. My dad an abusive, violent alcoholic who traumatized his children got a hold of the book "Tough Love" & it only validated his breaking his childrens' spirits during their teenage years. 2 of his 3 kids are trying to break the cycles, but he has 5 grandkids who were effect & 2 of them were severely abused too. I picked up on the abusive tough love in AA & that is not what I needed. w/ 16 mos. out of AA I have come to find they didn't have any real solutions.
Oh yes you are told you are dangerous and killing alcoholics if you question AA.I found the healthier members chose to move on after awhile but the sickos in AA are like crabs pulling you back in the box.They say you will die drunk or insane if you leave AA.I left and I am happy ,sober and sane.Leaving AA was one of most loving things I have ever done for myself.
No, the steps can actually induce a nervous breakdown and especially when you have a sponsor power tripping & forcing all sorts of illogic advice on a person. I experienced it & witnessed it with others many times. I actually helped several people thru one while old-timers kept barking insanity & abuse at them while they were sick. When I had mine they went from the bait love-bombing to switch abuse tactics. It wasn't "me" & my mind; it was induced by the steps & the fellowship of AA.
A famous saying in AA is, "God never gives you more than you can handle" you can stay sober through "anything". Nervous breakdowns are when life gives you more than you can handle and AA does put off on people crazy making. The slogans stop their thoughts which also causes people to start breaking down psychologically. Ego smashing does cause nervous breakdowns which are not spiritual experiences they harm people.
I dont think SO..and I guarantee there are many more suicides thru drink and drugs where people have left treatment?????
Your stats dont impress me,,they are absolute rubbish,,yes people often leave treatment and o.d or die thru alcohol related illness,,just not classed as suicide..aha
I do fight the alcohol industry I dont buy it, I dont care how anyone gains recovery or sobriety, it"s an individual thing but I dont go knocking something that saves lives IS non profit and IS Not killing people or causing harm to those who CHOOSE it....
I don't buy alcohol either. The 12-steps do harm people, I witnessed it many times. Also there is a woman with a Phd on you tube that says AA has 6xs the suicide rate as other treatments. I watched the nervous breakdowns & suicides. Greg Muth, general manager of GSO, makes $164/hr & you say that isn't a profit? The members give freely forever to support these generous & obnoxious incomes.
my mother in law commited suicide just last year thru not doing meetins...I share MY experience strength and hope,,not phd and doctors,,,My debate is over,,I respect your belief,,I respect everyones choice to get recovery how where and with whom they want,,Dont bag something you know nothing about,,IF you have experienced EVERY members journey throughout the world then you are qualified to bag it...
What, she left you a note telling you the reason she was suiciding was because she quit going to meetings? Our "bagging" comes from a basis of experience and research, not ignorance or lack of expertise. We can compare our AA resumes with the best. Mike
not WE Mike,,YOU,,Thankyou all very much for your input,,You dont know anything about her or me or US,,thats my experience and you have yours..keep n bagging if it keeps you well...hugs in fellowship Bridgette
Two people host this site, thus the "we". I, otoh, was responding to your assertion that someone committed suicide because they quit going to AA. That statement in and of itself reveals a great deal about your mindset and outlook, as does the "hugs in fellowship" at the end of a screed. Mike
YES your right Mike,,your obviously right about everything,,and part of her damn suicide note to "us", her son, sober 8 years and myself sober and clean over 7 years, WAS DONT STOP GOING TO MEETINGS...thats my experience mike,,it's not about blame...hugs in fellowship Bridgette
As someone who has experienced suicidal depression, sober in AA, and has lost way too many NA and AA friends to suicide, I, too, have very strong views regarding the relationship between suicide and the 12-step movement. I don't know everything, but I do know that telling a deeply depressed person to get off the pity pot, pray harder, and get out of themselves and get more deeply involved in service work isn't helpful, and can be deadly. Mike
Agghhh,,Well WE agree on that one whilst I am a great supporter of tough love I too have experienced suicidal depression in and out of recovery,,I take what I want and leave the rest and when it comes to "depression" which IS an illness, I dont believe A>A is qualified to treat me on that...My doctor,,therapist does
Tough love is usually a politically-correct way of saying bullying and emotional abuse. AA believes it is qualified to treat you for emotional problems. "There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest" doesn't sound much like a referral to mental help therapy from here, just 12-step faith healing through "rigourous honesty". Mike
MIKE thats your opinion,,,not mine,,ours or everyones,,I nEEDED tough love,,I needed to be told get ya head out of ya butt and get on with it or I would have stayed a victim,,whingeing,,poor me,,alkie/addict...Thats what I dont get you make movies that contain your logic,,whilst u have every right to I have a right to disagree..
I needed to get into myself and care for me. Once I left the cult my life got better. That is MY INTERPRETATION and MY EXPERIENCE. I am sorry you were a whiner and a victim. Hope you worked that out. I will celebrate 1 year meeting and cult free in 2 weeks! Oh YES!
YES I will celebrate 8 years in July....Congratulations on 1 year,,thats fabulous...whichever way works..I am too busy to continue this discussion but thanks for your input all of you
You are blaming her suicide on not going to mtgs? I can understand you are upset, but maybe if she had been in AA the msg pushed her over that death & insanity edge. I have seen the suicide by more AA members (regardless of their program) than I ever did outside of AA. The death & insanity are fear hooks, because most of us can relate to the horror. These people have researched the seedy side of the lies AA brainwashes people into believing. Most AA's never tried a normal recovery w/o AA's lies.
I am glad that AA helps you. None of us can know the whole truth from the mind of a person who commits suicide. I hope for you to become emotionally healthy over it regardless of the road you take to achieve mending your broken heart. & thank you for considering to not blame her suicide on not going to mtgs as the cause, because the truth will probably never be known either way.
My sister's friend just shot herself in the head dead while talking to her sponsor after working the entire program for one & half years. She had been trying to work the program for years. I watched other people with years in AA kill themselves & newcomers frequently are pushed into nervous breakdowns. PS: I am sorry about your lose. For an AA member you seem angry? From an alkie life I seriously thought if AA/Alanon is as good as it gets I would rather be dead; harsh but true. I want better.
Thats your opinion,,experience, Fair enough,BUT WHY not get to the source of the problem and spend your precious time attacking the multi million dollar companies selling, promoting and profiting from the sale of alcohol?
I dont know your story and you dont know mine BUT let me tell you I have generations of death and insanity and misery due to alcoholism and it sure does annoy me that I dont shove A.A down anyone's throat ,maybe Australian A.A is free from propoganda and bullies
I will agree with you that Austraila problem is so severe they do documentaries on it. That is a good ? about the alcohol industry, maybe you would do more good attacking them yourself. Alcohol is a man-made substance and drinking it is a behavior not a disease. It cause people to die & go insane because it is a man-made poison, but not a disease.
Well I believe what I believe,,My story,,just done get it how their is a several disgruntled alkies posting this,,,TO thy own SELF be true..I know what A.A has done for ME....Countless others agree
"Rarely have we seen anyone fail ..." is the biggest lie AA states in every mtg. Try reading the letters on Orange Papers with an open-mind. It shows the true illogic of AA'ers, ex-AA'ers, & those harmed in or by the program. We know AA is full of people who claim AA is the best thing ever, beyond their wildest dreams come true, & we disagree. To thy own self be true, but in AA that isn't the truth. They all mimic eachother, because they can't think for themselves.
What does A.A take from someone..HELLO,,Get over it,,DONT DO A>A if it doesnt work for you..WHY attack it,,does it make money from people,,hullo attack the church,,religion,,money,,greed,,
It should be attacked because its belief system penetrates so much of society. It penetrates therapy approaches and can be forced on someone for whom their approach would not work. That's why. It isn't as simple as not going if you don't agree with AA's methods or messages.
WHAT THE,,,Now I dont wish to be predjudice but I suspect the U.S.A is a little different to my experience in Australia. Their are many different methods to recovery available so why not share your experience instead of your opinion
The Alanon book only further shows the isolation and insanity of the AA program. In "Staying sane in an insane situation" pg. 268 the husband goes through years of heck over his wife's alcoholism & recovery. She even puts AA ahead of her family & then starts disappearing only to file for divorce & falsely accuse him of crimes against their daughter. Alanon saves his life? No one ?s how odd his Alanon story is in relationship to his wife still ending up an AA loser w/o accountability?
That constant claim of the infallibilty of aa's message closes the door on any possibility of constructive thought,progress or understanding. AA is more closed-minded, repressive and reactionary than any mainstream religious group, despite its claims of inclusiveness. And it raises the most crass, dishonest and poorly written material to the status of divine scripture.I'd rate the literary and philosophical merit of the "Big Book" a fair bit lower than that of a Marvel comic.
Drinking alcohol is a behavior not a disease. It makes me happy to know people are waking up to the truth. The disease model is profit orientated to keep people incurable forever. You can't attend AA for free that isn't the truth. Gas, cofee, books, & $ in the basket adds up fast. Sick people endlessly seeking solutions from sick people to a diease that never existed in the first place. Once you deal with the behavior and the problems it caused living sober isn't the nightmare AA creates.
DOES anyone get turned away if they dont have a dollar for the basket? my,,my,,,If you are sober GREAT,,WHO say's their is only one way to sobriety,,why knock A.A....
Yes, I do think all non-profits are nice ways to make huge profits. AA shouldn't push its insane ideology on the public as a cure to alcoholism. When a person gets involved in AA it changes them, and not always for the better. Many have investigated the lies of AA. Many people have been harmed. AA abuses anyone who doesn't follow the party line like your ID: the old-timers weren't HJF, alot of "fake", and they love to laugh at the horror & misery of newcomers. AA costs a lot! esp. forever.
Great video James and Mike. How many people have been so badly affected by their experience with 'the Program', that tells them it is AA's way or the highway...you will die without the fellowship etc ..they would rather stay on drugs/alcohol than give up their free will. AA converts, destabilises and disconnects people. All this hostility towards Blamedenial shows AA to be a cultic group.
2:27 ABSOLUTELY. "Why are you so angry?" "Dry drunk" ET CETERA. No, we're not failures, we're not even using drugs....or drinking at all or in excess, nor are we dwelling on drugs or alcohol...wait, we moved on? Oooops....was that the biggest 12 step no-no? Getting on with our lives? I forget, I thought it was "jails, institutions or death", none of which we have anything to do with. And BTW, you received your doctorate where? That's what I thought.
LexeconKiddo 6 months ago
Look up the "Disinformation Guide" page 254,under AA lies at any library!
1ntencity 1 year ago
O.K. Let's just all go drink,be done with all this garb.
217789jimbo 1 year ago
AA is a sick, toxic, and unhealthy environment. I speak from experience afte rspending four years in the rooms and dealt with countless hours of guilt and uneducated and misguided "suggestions". I have found freedom of the power of AA and it's destructive mind washing. I am healthy, and do not go to meetings. I encourage people who feel tied to AA to start thinking for themselves. You do not have to attend AA or so the steps to "recover" from anything.
dickie13492 1 year ago 6
@dickie13492 Glad to hear that it is going well for you. Thanks for the post. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago 3
@dickie13492 spot on
breda83 1 year ago
Wait till I start making video's, the meeting's in my little hamlet are so over the top sick and twisted and chock filled with creeps, perverts and one full fledged sexual preditor. After years of looking the other way and apologizing for bad behavior of other's and playing my own sick game's the truth need's to be told. With so many young women messed up on herion and pill's and in a bad way their family AA is easy pickins for anyone wanting to take advantage...
paulypooper2 1 year ago 3
If you read the ' Alcoholics Anonymous Big Book', page 185 (4th edition)- Dr G. Kirby Collier (psychiatrist) states his opinion is that it can be proved that AA has a success -'recovery' rate of 50-60% (1944).
jackiehumphries 1 year ago
@jackiehumphries An opinion of provability from a 1940's psychiatrist does little to establish actual success rates either then, or now. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago 5
If you do not like AA, then don't go, simple as that. Some of us "got it" and some didnt. I will not lose any sleep whether you drink, die, or go insane, or if you live a perfectly normal life for that matter. - Grateful to be sober, sane, and free, in AA
BbearWARRIOR 1 year ago
@BbearWARRIOR Thanks for the advice, the encouragement, the testimonial and, of course, the validation. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago 2
There is enough information - in print and on line - for people to learn what AA is actually all about. If people get caught up in it, they had the opportunity to do otherwise.
dix345 2 years ago
To heyanto: AA is not religion, so please get the right info, before comment. Ive been sober for 17 months with help from my higher power and AA freinds. I never cared much about religion. Where did you hear about the succes rate? Anyway its not true, and finaly...nobody brags, infact we share soberity, hope and joy and many people get a new life.
PhilLynottfan 2 years ago
@PhilLynottfan The evidence for AA being a religion is compelling. Google "AA Triennial Surveys" for the 3-5% citations, also referenced in AA historical documents. Mike
blamethenile 2 years ago
I am happy you are sober. I say that with complete sincerity. I know from personal experience how difficult it is to overcome an addiction. The supreme court of New York, Wyoming, and several other states have ruled it unconstitutional for a state court to mandate 12-step meetings as part of their probation as it constitutes a violation of the seperation of church and state. They have ruled that the 12-step tradition is religious in nature. By the way, I'm also a huge Phil Lynott fan.
heyanto 2 years ago
@PhilLynottfan AA is religion it requires "turning on'e will over to a higher power a.k.a. god, or to play semantics, a god of your understanding. every higher court has heard the matter has held that aa is too religious in nature to be considered otherwise for second amendment purposes
a good analogy is "intelligent design", the courts have held that the "intelligent designer" is god, just as "higher power" is god, you are told to seek through prayer and mediation, prayer is to god
Commonsense11111 1 year ago
Thanks for your videos. 12 step is a religion, pure and simple. If you need religion to quit drinking (drugs, gambling, whatever) that's fine, but don't tell people 12 step is the only way. The success rate of 12 step is somewhere between 3% and 5%. Nothing to brag about.
heyanto 2 years ago 6
yes, heyanto, it is a religion.
dix345 2 years ago
I am very gald that my involvment in AA was minimal. And, I got my act together without the 'help' of AA. The comments madr by the defenders of AA demonstrate to me that I made the correct choice to leave. I cannot recommend AA.
dix345 3 years ago
I hope whatever you do works for you as a.a works for me, I am proud of my opinions and the fellowship I belong to
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
wow sorry you went to a bad meeting and talked to the wrong people. Not all meetings a re right 4 every one. Some meetings are dictaterships. To bad gives the good ones a bad name. Most of the shit on here for posts is crap, personal feelings about a personal incident. GROW UP! Even I can twist the bible to sound inconcievibly terrible.
outlaw23327 3 years ago
Talk about crap posing as posts, nothing like being your own example. I've been to about four thousand meetings, and they all read the same toxic literature, and promote the same toxic dogma. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
@blamethenile OMG all of my videos seem to get the identical AA posts you went to the wrong meeting, you had the wrong sponsor, you are directing your won anger issues at aa, you are incapable of being honest sitting down shutting up and learning something, you are taking it out on the group that saved your life, you really want to drink and want aa to blame,dont criticize if you dont have a better plan and and my favorite, you are killing people by keeping them from aa
Commonsense11111 1 year ago
@Commonsense11111 Like the very limited range of topics in AA meetings, AA's response to questioning and criticism are equally limited. Mike
blamethenile 1 year ago
The entire message of AA is dishonest. It is sorely out-dated too, because there are huge advancements towards solutions for problems associated w/ addiction that are based on reality. AA is about God or whiskey. AA does preach a twisted, untrue message about God. Alcohol is a man-made poison & drinking it is a behavior not an uncurable spiritual disease. That even sound absurd. If you are poisoned you need detox not the 12-steps that are really the secret 13-steps. Shhh don't tell newcomers.
humyepright 3 years ago 2
see thats really SAD, dont blame A.A for warped sexual predaTOR'S OR was THAT MEANT TO BE FUNNY?? OH CUTE
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
alcoholics are assholes, anything that temporarily relieves their asshholism is a good thing, even though it doesn't last. I'd rather e with an asshole who is trying to recover than an asshole with no hope of vaguely acting human.
oshngrl 3 years ago
Those aren't your only two options. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
AA and ACOA nearly ruined my family. I was told that my dad was in denial and therefore somehow defective. Our relationship was better before I got involed with ACOA and improved after I realized 12 steps is utter hogwash. When I developed a drinking problem, I almost went to AA. I thought I had a disease, that I was hopeless. Guess what? I barely drink at all anymore. I am not hopeless or diseased. I just took responsibility for MY actions. The disease model is a cop-out.
pk421a 3 years ago
Denial, eh? Suffice to say, we hear that one a lot. The most hard-core born-again stark raving sobers I know came out of ACOA. Glad things are working out for you now. Thanks for the post. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
Thank you for speaking out & sharing that these programs nearly ruined your family. For one: they isolate family members away from eachother & for two: sponsors cause huge communication break-downs giving advice about people they don't even know. I agree the disease model is BS it is killing my sister, because society believes Bill W? an alcoholic who created his own spiritual disease and successfully sold it to millions of vulnerable people. Don't think, don't feel, repress your anger? Weird~
humyepright 3 years ago
It took a very long time for me to change my paradigm away from being a disgusting, diseased, weak person into what I am today. It took years to repair the relationship with my father. This is why it's so dangerous. It doesn't only affect the person attending meetings, it affects the family and friends of 12 steppers just as much.
pk421a 3 years ago 2
By staying away from AA & distancing myself from all the members I can finally think & feel what is "real" & there are hundreds of better resources to use for addressing problems. What AA teaches is horrid, and I agree it effects: the rest of society spouses, family, friends, children. I like how AA isolates these people into seperate groups? How is that suppose to bring families together. I also like AA saying be aulturistic, but then it is none of your business even about your own kids Creepy!
humyepright 3 years ago 2
The abuse is for your own good. After all, your best thinking got you here. So, best to take the cotton out of your ears and put in your mouth. We wll love you until you can love yourself!!
dix345 3 years ago
It is funny how I have heard those same words over & over the first 2 years I was in the program being love-bombed the first, questioning the 2nd, & the 3rd year experiencing the abuse directly & I got very sick. On Orange Papers when he spoke of bait & switch love-bombing and then abuse tactics ... it save my life: I knew that what I was experiencing was not "me" & my imagination. It still isn't "me" in relationship to our society's fraudulant faith based recovery programs: all 100% fraud.
humyepright 3 years ago
The things you describe seem to be fairly standard fare in the AA process. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
(M) I feel like the AA/Alanon curse is broken for me. As I research and view my alcoholic family: none of AA applies. Not to mention AA encourages dysfunctional behaviors. The alcoholic still has control to negatively effect the people who have tolerated them drunk in similar ways in recovery more neglect & abuse. The family deserves you to change at home & not to spend your life running around 12-stepping other drunks. They have a right to be angry about your AA/Alanon lifestyle.
humyepright 3 years ago
I met several people in AA who were suffering w/ 10+ yrs. in the program still being tossed around looking for the solution? "Any" program claiming to know the path of God solving "all" your problems is a "red flag" to run away. In AA they don't even talk about any truth in regards to alcoholism. I kept listening to hear something of real value and as of today I can't think of one positive thing I learned at AA. The covert & overt abuse in AA as a solution doesn't work for me.
humyepright 3 years ago
I simply love insults in caps. Too precious for words.
dix345 3 years ago
YOU ARE A DOUCHEBAG !! LOL NUFF SAID
FretMasher 3 years ago
Fretmasher,If your comment is directed at me-back at you.Sherwoode
sherwoode7 3 years ago
My experience with AA made it clear to me that many in AA were abusers and hid behind tough love as an excuse to hurt and abuse members with very low self-esteem and further damage them.I don't think I have ever met so many bullies in one place and sadly so many who just didn't believe they deserved better.I observed the bullies really getting off on hurting others-they seem to get a little rush from their so called tough love.Looked like S and M to me.
sherwoode7 3 years ago
In response to tough love. My dad an abusive, violent alcoholic who traumatized his children got a hold of the book "Tough Love" & it only validated his breaking his childrens' spirits during their teenage years. 2 of his 3 kids are trying to break the cycles, but he has 5 grandkids who were effect & 2 of them were severely abused too. I picked up on the abusive tough love in AA & that is not what I needed. w/ 16 mos. out of AA I have come to find they didn't have any real solutions.
humyepright 3 years ago
Oh yes you are told you are dangerous and killing alcoholics if you question AA.I found the healthier members chose to move on after awhile but the sickos in AA are like crabs pulling you back in the box.They say you will die drunk or insane if you leave AA.I left and I am happy ,sober and sane.Leaving AA was one of most loving things I have ever done for myself.
sherwoode7 3 years ago
As I said, not much difference between tough and stupid.
'Tough love' is, basically, acting out anger.
dix345 3 years ago
tough love = there is very little difference between tough and stupid.
dix345 3 years ago
tough love challenges the self obssessed mind of the addict//alkie,,thats me,,MY INTERPRETATION and experience with it
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
yes,,yes YOU ARE ALL RIGHT..i AM WRONG...CE LAVIE
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
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happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
the nervous breakdows are our damn minds..HULLOOOO
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
No, the steps can actually induce a nervous breakdown and especially when you have a sponsor power tripping & forcing all sorts of illogic advice on a person. I experienced it & witnessed it with others many times. I actually helped several people thru one while old-timers kept barking insanity & abuse at them while they were sick. When I had mine they went from the bait love-bombing to switch abuse tactics. It wasn't "me" & my mind; it was induced by the steps & the fellowship of AA.
humyepright 3 years ago
A famous saying in AA is, "God never gives you more than you can handle" you can stay sober through "anything". Nervous breakdowns are when life gives you more than you can handle and AA does put off on people crazy making. The slogans stop their thoughts which also causes people to start breaking down psychologically. Ego smashing does cause nervous breakdowns which are not spiritual experiences they harm people.
humyepright 3 years ago
I dont think SO..and I guarantee there are many more suicides thru drink and drugs where people have left treatment?????
Your stats dont impress me,,they are absolute rubbish,,yes people often leave treatment and o.d or die thru alcohol related illness,,just not classed as suicide..aha
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
And your denials and guarantees don't impress us. I guess it all evens out. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
I do fight the alcohol industry I dont buy it, I dont care how anyone gains recovery or sobriety, it"s an individual thing but I dont go knocking something that saves lives IS non profit and IS Not killing people or causing harm to those who CHOOSE it....
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
I don't buy alcohol either. The 12-steps do harm people, I witnessed it many times. Also there is a woman with a Phd on you tube that says AA has 6xs the suicide rate as other treatments. I watched the nervous breakdowns & suicides. Greg Muth, general manager of GSO, makes $164/hr & you say that isn't a profit? The members give freely forever to support these generous & obnoxious incomes.
humyepright 3 years ago
my mother in law commited suicide just last year thru not doing meetins...I share MY experience strength and hope,,not phd and doctors,,,My debate is over,,I respect your belief,,I respect everyones choice to get recovery how where and with whom they want,,Dont bag something you know nothing about,,IF you have experienced EVERY members journey throughout the world then you are qualified to bag it...
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
What, she left you a note telling you the reason she was suiciding was because she quit going to meetings? Our "bagging" comes from a basis of experience and research, not ignorance or lack of expertise. We can compare our AA resumes with the best. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
not WE Mike,,YOU,,Thankyou all very much for your input,,You dont know anything about her or me or US,,thats my experience and you have yours..keep n bagging if it keeps you well...hugs in fellowship Bridgette
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
Two people host this site, thus the "we". I, otoh, was responding to your assertion that someone committed suicide because they quit going to AA. That statement in and of itself reveals a great deal about your mindset and outlook, as does the "hugs in fellowship" at the end of a screed. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
YES your right Mike,,your obviously right about everything,,and part of her damn suicide note to "us", her son, sober 8 years and myself sober and clean over 7 years, WAS DONT STOP GOING TO MEETINGS...thats my experience mike,,it's not about blame...hugs in fellowship Bridgette
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
As someone who has experienced suicidal depression, sober in AA, and has lost way too many NA and AA friends to suicide, I, too, have very strong views regarding the relationship between suicide and the 12-step movement. I don't know everything, but I do know that telling a deeply depressed person to get off the pity pot, pray harder, and get out of themselves and get more deeply involved in service work isn't helpful, and can be deadly. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
Agghhh,,Well WE agree on that one whilst I am a great supporter of tough love I too have experienced suicidal depression in and out of recovery,,I take what I want and leave the rest and when it comes to "depression" which IS an illness, I dont believe A>A is qualified to treat me on that...My doctor,,therapist does
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
Tough love is usually a politically-correct way of saying bullying and emotional abuse. AA believes it is qualified to treat you for emotional problems. "There are those, too, who suffer from grave emotional and mental disorders, but many of them do recover if they have the capacity to be honest" doesn't sound much like a referral to mental help therapy from here, just 12-step faith healing through "rigourous honesty". Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
MIKE thats your opinion,,,not mine,,ours or everyones,,I nEEDED tough love,,I needed to be told get ya head out of ya butt and get on with it or I would have stayed a victim,,whingeing,,poor me,,alkie/addict...Thats what I dont get you make movies that contain your logic,,whilst u have every right to I have a right to disagree..
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
I needed to get into myself and care for me. Once I left the cult my life got better. That is MY INTERPRETATION and MY EXPERIENCE. I am sorry you were a whiner and a victim. Hope you worked that out. I will celebrate 1 year meeting and cult free in 2 weeks! Oh YES!
brenna68t 3 years ago
YES I will celebrate 8 years in July....Congratulations on 1 year,,thats fabulous...whichever way works..I am too busy to continue this discussion but thanks for your input all of you
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
Thanks for stopping by, and take care of yourself. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
You are blaming her suicide on not going to mtgs? I can understand you are upset, but maybe if she had been in AA the msg pushed her over that death & insanity edge. I have seen the suicide by more AA members (regardless of their program) than I ever did outside of AA. The death & insanity are fear hooks, because most of us can relate to the horror. These people have researched the seedy side of the lies AA brainwashes people into believing. Most AA's never tried a normal recovery w/o AA's lies.
humyepright 3 years ago
I dont use my emmotion around her suicide to blame or not blame A.A..I a, happy as I go to A.A..not denial just hope
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
I am glad that AA helps you. None of us can know the whole truth from the mind of a person who commits suicide. I hope for you to become emotionally healthy over it regardless of the road you take to achieve mending your broken heart. & thank you for considering to not blame her suicide on not going to mtgs as the cause, because the truth will probably never be known either way.
humyepright 3 years ago
My sister's friend just shot herself in the head dead while talking to her sponsor after working the entire program for one & half years. She had been trying to work the program for years. I watched other people with years in AA kill themselves & newcomers frequently are pushed into nervous breakdowns. PS: I am sorry about your lose. For an AA member you seem angry? From an alkie life I seriously thought if AA/Alanon is as good as it gets I would rather be dead; harsh but true. I want better.
humyepright 3 years ago
Thats your opinion,,experience, Fair enough,BUT WHY not get to the source of the problem and spend your precious time attacking the multi million dollar companies selling, promoting and profiting from the sale of alcohol?
I dont know your story and you dont know mine BUT let me tell you I have generations of death and insanity and misery due to alcoholism and it sure does annoy me that I dont shove A.A down anyone's throat ,maybe Australian A.A is free from propoganda and bullies
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
I will agree with you that Austraila problem is so severe they do documentaries on it. That is a good ? about the alcohol industry, maybe you would do more good attacking them yourself. Alcohol is a man-made substance and drinking it is a behavior not a disease. It cause people to die & go insane because it is a man-made poison, but not a disease.
humyepright 3 years ago
Well I believe what I believe,,My story,,just done get it how their is a several disgruntled alkies posting this,,,TO thy own SELF be true..I know what A.A has done for ME....Countless others agree
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
"Rarely have we seen anyone fail ..." is the biggest lie AA states in every mtg. Try reading the letters on Orange Papers with an open-mind. It shows the true illogic of AA'ers, ex-AA'ers, & those harmed in or by the program. We know AA is full of people who claim AA is the best thing ever, beyond their wildest dreams come true, & we disagree. To thy own self be true, but in AA that isn't the truth. They all mimic eachother, because they can't think for themselves.
humyepright 3 years ago
What does A.A take from someone..HELLO,,Get over it,,DONT DO A>A if it doesnt work for you..WHY attack it,,does it make money from people,,hullo attack the church,,religion,,money,,greed,,
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
It should be attacked because its belief system penetrates so much of society. It penetrates therapy approaches and can be forced on someone for whom their approach would not work. That's why. It isn't as simple as not going if you don't agree with AA's methods or messages.
pk421a 3 years ago 3
WHAT THE,,,Now I dont wish to be predjudice but I suspect the U.S.A is a little different to my experience in Australia. Their are many different methods to recovery available so why not share your experience instead of your opinion
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
The Alanon book only further shows the isolation and insanity of the AA program. In "Staying sane in an insane situation" pg. 268 the husband goes through years of heck over his wife's alcoholism & recovery. She even puts AA ahead of her family & then starts disappearing only to file for divorce & falsely accuse him of crimes against their daughter. Alanon saves his life? No one ?s how odd his Alanon story is in relationship to his wife still ending up an AA loser w/o accountability?
humyepright 3 years ago 5
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aa took my soul and my bowl
OldTymeDem 3 years ago
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Israel will always rule. long live my Jewish people. we are Gods' chosen
Israel4everIDF 3 years ago
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Good vid James. But y'aint gonna change people's religious beliefs... Hope all well.
johnjcanavan 3 years ago 5
Thanks for the positive post, John. Good to see you posting. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
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That constant claim of the infallibilty of aa's message closes the door on any possibility of constructive thought,progress or understanding. AA is more closed-minded, repressive and reactionary than any mainstream religious group, despite its claims of inclusiveness. And it raises the most crass, dishonest and poorly written material to the status of divine scripture.I'd rate the literary and philosophical merit of the "Big Book" a fair bit lower than that of a Marvel comic.
tobytwirrll 3 years ago 6
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Drinking alcohol is a behavior not a disease. It makes me happy to know people are waking up to the truth. The disease model is profit orientated to keep people incurable forever. You can't attend AA for free that isn't the truth. Gas, cofee, books, & $ in the basket adds up fast. Sick people endlessly seeking solutions from sick people to a diease that never existed in the first place. Once you deal with the behavior and the problems it caused living sober isn't the nightmare AA creates.
humyepright 3 years ago 8
DOES anyone get turned away if they dont have a dollar for the basket? my,,my,,,If you are sober GREAT,,WHO say's their is only one way to sobriety,,why knock A.A....
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago
Yes, I do think all non-profits are nice ways to make huge profits. AA shouldn't push its insane ideology on the public as a cure to alcoholism. When a person gets involved in AA it changes them, and not always for the better. Many have investigated the lies of AA. Many people have been harmed. AA abuses anyone who doesn't follow the party line like your ID: the old-timers weren't HJF, alot of "fake", and they love to laugh at the horror & misery of newcomers. AA costs a lot! esp. forever.
humyepright 3 years ago
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Great video James and Mike. How many people have been so badly affected by their experience with 'the Program', that tells them it is AA's way or the highway...you will die without the fellowship etc ..they would rather stay on drugs/alcohol than give up their free will. AA converts, destabilises and disconnects people. All this hostility towards Blamedenial shows AA to be a cultic group.
quali8 3 years ago 5
Good to see you posting again. All that you said here is true. Mike
blamethenile 3 years ago
another one,,,
happyjoyfree34 3 years ago