Amazing.... their god is Jesus, yet they completely ignore his teachings and his words.... instead they attach themselves to some guys named Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke and Peter.
I cannot swallow or digest this absurdity... its hurting my ears to listen to these ignorant men go on and on about drinking their creators blood and eating his flesh. Filth, absolute rubbish.
@hafizf86 Jesus told you from his own mouth REPEATEDLY that he came to die (Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:33-34). He also told you REPEATEDLY exactly HOW he would die by crucifixion (Matthew 20:19,26:2) and he even told you exactly WHY he would die for the sins of many (Matthew 26:28).
He did this in agreement with the prophets who foretold the very event (Isaiah 53:4-6,10,12, Psalms 22) and with the law which requires sacrifice for the atonement of sin (Lev. 16:15-16,17:11, Hebrews 9:22)
Now, you can call it filth, rubbish, or whatever language you feel comfortable to use against the word of God but myself I think that's quite dangerous.
Jesus was plainly clear about his purpose and Islam makes him out to be a liar by denying that. But I understand that Islam MUST attempt to deny the crucifixion as the false message of the Qur'an makes that claim as it also makes the false claim that Muhammad is found in the Law and in the Gospels.
@hafizf86 Actually Islam is growing primarily (and this is extremely well established) by birth rate and that is in Eurpean countries where the largely Anglo population is not reproducing at rates even high enough to sustain their own cultures. Islam is also "surviving" because in countries where it is the majority they most often allow no freedom of religion. Tell me how easy it is for a Saudi to convert to Christianity! It would mean death.
is far from declining. It is estimated that 1/3 or China will be Christian by 2025 for example. Christianity will be the dominate world religion for a long long time.
Never the less, even if there were only ONE Christian, that would not change the truth of it.
Jesus told you on MANY occasions that he came to die and that proves Islam (or the Qur'an) is false.
@jorsak give us the qote that says that islam is wrong and the quran is fals! tell us about those many occasions, he might have also been talking about the christians of today, cause when he come back he tells to christians, depart from me i never knew you,
@jorsak the first answer i put it on your wall cause here it wasn't accepted, well now for the crucifixion: in the quran it is said that he was elevated to heaven and the soul of judas i guess was put in his body, so jesus is not yet dead, but he will come back and fight for the humanity and then he will die, and the christians believed that he died for you to forgive adams sins, but he die for humanity when he fights against dajal, that's when he comes to die. your bible is just what some
@jorsak 3- your bible has been changed, what's in the bible is just according to and to and to, paul even wrote the bible according to his dreams, but the real one is in jerusalem in the orthodox church which was some how banned cause it will break the base of chritianity, i can give you links to the national geography document about it, it was writen by jesus's brother, it is even before the gospel, it is some how the real injil
@darklightraven " your bible has been changed, what's in the bible is just according to and to and to"
Unable to refute the points I've listed, you've went on to reference a spurious document that you can "provide links to." The Bible is unchanged. The "According tos" are the eye witness accounts of Jesus' life. God called prophets throughout time to document what he wanted documented. That is unchanging. Jesus, just as he did with Old Testament writers, called his disciples (Cont.)
@jorsak to document what he wanted them to document. Paul, just as all the rest, was called by God to document what God wanted him to document.
You're book? The Qur'an? Supposedly the angel Gabriel appeared to Muhammad in a cave. Did anyone see it? Was it witness by ANYONE other than Muhammad? No. Did Muhammad offer up miracles as proof that he had actually been visited by an Angel of God? No.
Islam contradicts the law of God, the prophets, and Jesus himself. That is completely clear.
@jorsak The miracel of mohammed peace be upon him is the QURAN. PRODUCE A BOOK LIKE IT IF YOU ARE SPEAKING THE TRUTH. That is the miracel of mohamed peace be upon and the proof that he is speaking the truth and the proof that gabriel came to him.
@Abdelmajid22 A subjective challenge like "Produce a book like it" is not a challenge. Your OPINION and those that follow Islam is that there is no book of equal. However, where is the prophecy fulfillment? Where is the miraculous? Where are the eye witnesses to Gabriel's meeting Mohamed? They are all absent.
@jorsak were does the islam contradicts the law of god???? your bible is full of contradictios it has diverent writters, is that a so called a book of god. Let us speak the truth your book is not one you have like more then 50 books of the bibles. Hence we dont speak of one bible like you claim. Look if you talk about miracles to proof that mohammed is a profet send by god. It is the quran for us because READ IT YOU WILL FIND NOT ONE UNREASINABLE THING in it. That is a true miracle.
@Abdelmajid22 Islam Contradicts the law of God, the prophets of God, and even Jesus himself. The law of God calls for sacrifice for sin (Leviticus 16:15-17, 17:11), it contradicts the prophets who said the Messiah would come to die for the sins of mankind (Isaiah 53, Psalm 22) and It contradicts Jesus who said on many occasions that he came to die (Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:33-34) specifically that he would die on the cross (Matthew 20:19, 26:2) and even WHY he must die (Matthew 26:28).
@jorsak There are NO and I mean ZERO contradictions in the bible. There are only self created contradictions which are easily answered.
It matters not if the Bible is considered one book or one hundred books. They are books written by those God has called TO write them just as Mohammed was supposedly called. One book or One hundred, the God who called is the same.
@jorsak Islam doesnt contradict nothing. It is your opninion that islam conttradicts the law of god. Look for me i cant understand that you believe in a human as a god. A human cries, dies, has hunger wants to drink, has lusts, do you consider that a god? think about it? and why does god need to kill himself for us? he is almighty and the most high if he wats to forgive he forgives us and doesnt need to spill blood for it. It is only your fabrication that you made god to a human.
@Abdelmajid22 Is it my opinion? The law requires sacrifice for sin. Fact (Leviticus 16:15-16, 17:11) Do you sacrifice for your sins?
You then ask, "A human cries, dies, has hunger wants to drink, has lusts, do you consider that a god?"
What you, and Mr. Deedat, fail to realize is that the Messiah is both FULLY God AND Fully human. Scripture says this plainly. (Isaiah 9:6, Philippians 2:5-7)
You then ask, "Why God needs to kill himself..." The law requires sacrifice for sin. (Cont.)
@jorsak If God simply "Forgives" sin without adhering to his law, then he has #1. contradicted himself and #2. made himself a terrible judge. God is a perfect judge and is also perfectly merciful at the same time. Only through the cross is perfect justice and perfect mercy seen.
@jorsak look islam didnt came with a new message or a new religion. It just confirmed what it is the torra and the bibel. It is the same message it is only you people of the book that have changed the message of god. so dont come to me with your story about that we contradict the law of god it is you people that contradict it. and if you think i talk rubish i would like to tell you abut the next surah (verse) of the quran.
@jorsak Qur'an 3:64-71 Surah Ale-'Imran (The Family of 'Imran)
Say: "O people of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back say: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's will)."
@jorsak Allah swt has spoken to you in that verse and many others. I am not in my right as a muslim to discuss with you about the bible. I believe in your bible as a believe also in the torrah but your books are corrupted and only allah knows what is still true and what is not true anymore in the bible. The verse that i have given you is the only thing i can give you as a muslim. Enough said may allah swt guide you the right path.
@Abdelmajid22 A simple question for you: Uthman burned variants. This is an indisputable fact of Islam. Question, did Utham burn correct and uncorrupted versions of the Qur'an or did he burn variants?
If he burned corruptions, the your claim that the Bible was corrupted, is meaningless as the Qur'an experienced the same path. If he burned uncorrupted versions... well, you get the idea.
@jorsak and another verse from the quran for you: (verse: 22:47) Do they not travel through the land, so that their hearts (and minds) may thus learn wisdom and their ears may thus learn to hear? Truly it is not their eyes that are blind, but their hearts which are in their breasts.
busenbeisser@ My brother, let alone whom they lie to Jesus peace be upon him and give it things did not say why be surprised that they are lying on the prophet Mohammed peace be upon him, did not you see how Deedat crushed them so they are spiteful to Islam, but Islam is the way to heaven, and I wish to be present When Jesus peace be upon him deny them and he `ll ask them did I say I`m God? go a way stupid ppl
My dear friend I don't want to convince you to accept Christianity but my appeal to Muslims is not to follow the book which orders the killing of the people because it can't be from god and the bible warns u that every other gospel other than the Bible should be accursed and I am begging you to speak with Stanley VILLAVINCENCIO from city of Cebu in Philippines who was 3 days clinically dead and after three days his family prepared for funeral and after 3 days he stood up healthy.
@austriaheute My dear friend, it shows ignorance on ur part in the u make that "appeal"... Quran doesn't order the "killing of people"... Kindly give a reference to support ur accusation...
@khalilrabee " u have to deny ur bible because ur bible orders the killing of innocents unlike the qor'an which orders the killing of the guilty"
There is no single verse in the Bible where you can back up this claim. In order to back this claim, you yourself would be required to play God and tell me who is "innocent" because God has called any group which he gives the command to kill as a whole "evil."
So, show me a verse where God has said to kill someone innocent in scripture.
@jorsak acording to mathew ALL THE SCRIPTURE is profitable...and all the scripture means old and new testament and acording to old testament u can dash babies to stone, u can eat ur children, u can kill a man to take his wife, u can kill the entire population of a city as a war tactic etc...many many rapes and killings in the bible...
u want me to back my claims? read ur bible before u ask me to
@khalilrabee Yes, as ANY good response includes supporting evidence. I can state that pink unicorns fly but without supporting evidence it's called conjecture. All scripture is profitable as it serves as a historical record of events, prophecy, law, etc.
You make the claim that the OT records God killing innocent people. I called falsehood on that statement and tell you to bring your proof. So far.... no proof.
i don't get this. god allows jesus to be killed.jesus is god.so god allows himself to be killed?so if god dies then what is the state of earth? no wonder tsunamies and earthquakes!
@staffsergeant77 No. What your issue is is that you do not understand one of the core teachings of Christianity (Which Deedat also does not understand).
The Messiah is both FULLY God and FULLY man. This is plainly stated (Philippians 2:5-8, John 1:1, 14, etc.)
The ROLE of the Messiah was to come and die for the sins of mankind (Isaiah 53, Matthew 26:28). The prophets stated this and Jesus himself stated this.
Jesus did not die as God. He died as a sinless HUMAN as an atonement (cont.)
at 2:34 / 9:52 Erick mock said that eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Jesus is an anceint pagan ritual...so basically the whole of christondom is based on pagan rituals...from drinking the blood of Jesus to drinking urine, thinking he was GOD and a man at the same time....ehehehe jokerz!!
OMG Pastor, are u saying all Christians are Vampires trying to Drink the Blood of Jesus ( Peace be upon him). This is such a disgusting way of thinking and preaching about Jesus. I have watched so many lectures and I have always seen that Muslim Scholars Quote and prove every detail from the Quran and Bible. But the Christian Scholas never prove any statement from the BIBLE OR QURAN. THEY HAVE CHANGED SO MANY STATEMENTS AND MISLED SO MANY PEOPLE. Sorry for so called Christians.
@SimoDluffy First we must establish that the Bible in no way teaches that Holy Trinity is 1+1+1= 1, but rather A=B and B=C. In Mathematic this is known as Associative Property. There is only one God who created man and gave life—the Mighty God. Job 33:4 reads, [The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.] Here A and B are equal. Isaiah 9:6 says the Son is the Mighty God. Now A = B and B = C. If A=B and B=C, then A and C are equal to each other.
I understand that this is a contest for you because for a FAGGOT like you you have NO ATTENTION in the outside world sitting home waiting for the NEX CORN.....lol....
Dude you can go on and on I could careless about you winning or loosin` dis...
Because u the one who goes around replying to everyone 4 som attention...tsk tsk tsk
NOW ASK YOUR MOTHER ABOUT YOUR DISGUSTING LIFESTYLE.....
wow....I really don't wanna know what you do in your free time Miss Gramma Teacher....you don't have to tell the world about your DICK SUKIN` ...hhahahah....
My Mother is my everything even if she KILLS me she hasd the right to DO so as a MUSLIM Mother they HAVE THE HIGHEST AUTHORITY on this earth even 3 times more than ones own FATHER....
If she HATES ME its STILL LOVE FOR ME...thats what makes me muslim....
I Know Allah is Most Gracious and Most Merciful. unllike white people Change the of Isaa pbuh to Jesus and made His image into a WHITE MAN with blond hair and Blue eyes...lol
Dude even the name and idol of so called Son of could NOT be kept in thereal form...hum you make the judgment on what else is messed in the religion...lol...
Attention is exactly what you after thats for sure......
Our Christain brothers are so dooped with devil, that even their bible shows them so many defects yet they are acting deaf dumb and blind. May Allah show them the right path and save them from hell, Ameen.
Peace jorsak... i know the law you quote. I have given rebuttals to it. I will give you more.
Please read MATHEW 21
Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
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Because Mr. Deedat was in the business to sell books and tapes. I do not mean that as disrespectful but to debate people who actually make a living at debate (IE. William Lane Craig) wouldn't sell as many books and tapes.
joe, even today, the IPCI gives their books for free, i just recieved a book from them that they ask for 20 Rands to cover the cost of printing, and i didnt give them a penny for it. as for the lecture series, deedat tells us that if we want we can make copies and sell them, so it was never for him to make money from his debates, yes he welcomed the money because it helped in his cause, but never did he do what he did for money, watch his videos carefully and you will hear him say that.
@phigammasigma come on brother don't criticize them. they are just lost, needing someone or something to guide their way to the right path and insyaAllah for those who seek truth shall find the truth.
after listening to the debats of mr dedat , i think no one can deny that he is right , in islam we don't have unclear things , and that no one shall bear your sins you will carry them until you meet your creator then he will judge you , so why God send his son to remove our sins by killing him (it is not fair ) and what about people before that , they can say oh god why you didnot send to us your son ,
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#1. Before Jesus was the Levitical law. The Levitical law clearly lays out a system of sacrifice to atone for sin. It is well establish. Please read Leviticus chapter 16. Specifically read verses 15-17. The day is called "Yom Kippur" or "The Day of atonement" and is the day that the high priest atones for all the sins of the nation.
Atonement for sin by sacrifice is well establish and THAT is what the people did before Jesus came to pay for their sins.
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goats cannot perfectly atone for the sins of man and was just a shadow of the good thing that was to come (Jesus), God sent his son to become the PERFECT atonement for sin once for all time. Please reads Hebrews chapter 10 for a clear and precise explanation of this very subject.
The Old Testament (Jewish law) says there is no remission (forgiveness) of sins without the shedding of blood sacrifice. Jesus was the final sacrificial lamb, killed to atone for sins.
Greetings Letmesee74. I hope all is well with you and yours.
I understand that you, as Muslims most often do, believe that sin does not require sacrifice for forgiveness. You point to Ezekiel 18 as an evidence of this.
However, Ezekiel 18 does not support this notion at all. Repentence for every believer is a turning away from sin. Is this chapter that speaks on repentence meant to then DO AWAY with the law?
By no means!
If Ezekiel had intended to do away with the law, why(cont.)
would he repeatedly quote God as saying things like, "On the day he goes into the inner court of the sanctuary to minister in the sanctuary, he is to offer a sin offering for himself, declares the Sovereign LORD." Ezekiel 44:27
Now WHY would the priest offer a sin offering if all he had to do was simply repent according to Ezekiel 18? Of course, Ezekiel knew what EVERY Jew knew. The LAW REQUIRES sacrifice for sin.
At no point does God contradict himself and remove the requirements (cont.)
Jesus states in Matthew 5:17, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill."
What does the law say about sacrifice for sin? That's a lengthy conversation but I encourage you to study Yom Kippur or "the Day of Atonement" which is specifically discussed in Leviticus 16.
Pay close attention to the role of the High priest in verses 15-16 which state plainly:
sin offering for the people... whatever their sins have been.
The LAW requires annual sacrifice for sin to be made FOR THE PEOPLE by the high priest. It is unyielding. And it is plainly clear.
In Hebrews 4 we are told, "14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess."
Jesus IS our High Priest and as High Priest, in accordance with th elaw, he offered a sacrifice for the people.
What do the prophets say? This too i s a lengthy subject but lets us review one of teh greatest prophets, Isaiah and specifically Isaiah 53.
Speaking of the Messiah Isaiah 53 states, " 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities;" and again "10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,"
So the prophets are clear that YHWH offers the Messiah as a Guilt offering.
And that is why Hebrews 10:10 states plainly, "And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
And further in chapter 10 it states, "21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience "
It is ONLY through Jesus that the sacrificial law and the prophets are fulfilled .
Thus we can see that Ezekiel 18 is by no means contradicting the law or doing away with the requirements of the law.
Thus, on careful study of the law and the prophets which Jesus states he came to fulfill, we see that they both clearly require sacrifice for sin and that is why Jesus offered himself as the perfect sacrifice fulfilling the requirements of teh law and the prophets perfectly.
Read the New Testament of the Bible of the words said by Yeshua (JESUS):
Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to replace the Torah and the teachings of the prophets; I did not come to destroy them, but rather to fulfill them."
Matthew 15:24 "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Luke 18:19 "Why do you call me good? There are none good but God."
John 6:38 "For I came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him that sent me".
John 11:25-26 "I am the resurrection and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die."
Isaiah 7:14 and Isaiah 9:6 speaks about the birth of the Messiah. Immanuel from Isaiah 7:14 means "God with us", God came to earth from heaven and incarnated and manifested in the flesh in the person of Yeshua the Messiah. Yeshua HaMashiach is Immanuel meaning Yeshua HaMashiach is The Incarnation of Yahweh.
Yeshua HaMashiach was not the first appearance of God in the flesh. It is ridiculous, hypocrisy and insane if you say and think that you can do anything that God can't do. God can do anything according to his will, he can interact with his creation and above all of that God appeared and manifested himself in the flesh many times in the Tanakh (see Genesis 3:8, Genesis 18:1-14, Genesis 32:24-30, Exodus 24:9-11, Joshua 5:13-15, Judges 13:22, Proverbs 30:4).
The Jews understood when Jesus said I and the Father are One that it meant Jesus was saying He is God but when you give this proof to Muslims they refute it,why?
Because the Koran forbids Muslims to contradict Muh otherwise other Muslims will slaughter them
and that prevents Muslims from seeing and accepting the proof that they pretended they wanted
I have BROUGHT you glory on earth by completing the work you GAVE me to do.
the beloved KING JAMES VERSION
I have GLORIFIED thee on the earth: I have FINISHED the work which thou gavest me to do.
as clearly shown to all christians that the work of JESUS WAS DONE/FINISHED BEFORE the so called crucifiction. HENCE JESUS DID NOT come to die for the sins of mankind.
Quoting other verses WILL NOT explain the above comment by Jesus.
I have BROUGHT you glory on earth by completing the work you GAVE me to do.
the beloved KING JAMES VERSION
I have GLORIFIED thee on the earth: I have FINISHED the work which thou gavest me to do.
as clearly shown to all christians that the work of JESUS WAS DONE/FINISHED BEFORE the so called crucifiction. HENCE JESUS DID NOT come to die for the sins of mankind.
Quoting other verses WILL NOT explain the above comment"
Ahh... I thought you were speaking of the video. I have answered Letmesee74's question on two separate occasions and have stated the exact location. For that reason I have not desired to REPEAT the lengthy response again. He simply does not like the answer.
However, I will be happy to answer the question for you at length via e-mail this evening when I arrive home from work.
there is a reason hy they wont answer Kottokottktok. They do not have one.
All christians can do is cry and whine. Jorsak is a liar and a hypocrite and you will see it here. They will try their best to hide this topic by quoting verses having no relation with my question.
Ok he messaged me with a very detailed reasoning quoting the bible and I answered with a very detailed reasoning quoting the bible, let's see if he's objective or not.
Deedat was a Muslim and Muslims were taught Jesus was not God
but God said he would come into humanform to die on the cross to which he did and he did so to prove He was and is God who alone is with all people closer to them then their own jugluar vein for God knew when peoeple understood that God alone guides people best and when people themselves experienced God,it would end sufferings and restore the world back to true paradise
How can he know the hearts and minds of mankind? THAT is what is required to judge. You cannot know sin without knowing the heart of the one committing it.
Mohamed is not God and does not possess omniscience.
I said Jesus will Judge all mankind. THAT is his assertion - not mine. And then expanded on that idea to logically conclude that in order to Judge you must be OMNISCIENT. Thus, by Jesus saying that He will judge all mankind he is asserting his deity.
You then responded to that with the quote I provided from you, "where is prophet Muhammad? He also will be judge!"
if i say stuff or critize you, its not coz i hate you, or moke you or anything like that, no i hate to see people being in that place, blinded by this "programed faith" look in an open heart & mind to all what "religons" on earth say, and see which is true for real and which is not. then you will find your salvation, the truth & the way to the light.
i can give you sites to check, but would you really read them with open heart & mind, or just ignore or look at them but not read anything there!
#1. To send a video like the one you did is not criticism (And I did not assert that you hated me or anyone.)
#2. The video is someone MOCKING Crhistianity. Thus, to refer me to it under the premis that he has explained it better is not Criticism, it is mockery.
#3. You have no idea how I came to Christianity or my background of study of world religions. I am not "programmed" in the slightest and I most certainly can make the same assertions about Muslims.
of my arguments have been refuted by you. Now, who is the programmed person here? The one whose arguments have not been refuted or the one who continues believing what he believes despite having not argument against the other?
Have you read any of what I have typed with an open heart and mind? I don't think you have.
if Jesus was alive among us now, or when he comes back from heavnes to lead the believers.
tell me if he performed no miracles would christians stand by him, or they will say that anti-christ is the real christ coz he will have powers to heal/ bless foot/ and even bring life to dead.
how many christians will stand by the anti-christ coz christ is 'god" who has those powers. what if jeases was not to do those.
had you ever though of that.
ends of time are closer each second now, think & think
While Miracles are an indication of power and authority (Jesus said so himself "If you do not believe me then believe the works which I have performed) Aligning with the word that has already been spoken by God is a must.
Mohamed neither performed great miracles nor does his message align with the word that was already spoken.
whenever they are stuck at that point, and get argued or reasoned about it, they go "just believe/have faith" BEEN THERE MYSELF.
what is your idea for example abue judism, and islam had you "studied" for true what each say, or you looked just in a distructive criticism coz you just believe and dont want to even check if your salvation is the right/true one
it all depends on the angle you look at the issues, like deedat logic, why tons of pastors/preachers and so who argued him was not "convincing" his arguments stood still.
you look at CERTAIN verses and then go explainging and intterupting, while you ignore tons of other verses whic i mentioned before yet you just passed by them.
#1. The pastors he debated (This one is a perfect example) are unknown and even seem to struggle with basic english. You will not see his video for instance of him debating Josh McDowell (a well known Christian Apologist) because Josh solidly rebuted him.
#2. I do not ignore any verses. The ONLY argument you made at all that this could remotely be ascribe to is that of "Son of God" and how you attribute those titles to Israel and David ofor vairous different reasons.
when jesus mention or say he is son of god, and talk about the father, it refars to Jeremiah 31:9, HE IS FROM ISRAEL, BUT HE IS NOT THE ONLY SON, HE IS NOT THE FIRSTBORN, AND FOR SURE HE IS NOT THE begotten BEGOTEEN son of god, coz that was DAVID.
Psalm 2:7 "Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."
i guess that would make it sort of clear, or you will say god was a lier????
YOU DONT FREAKING DARE SAY GOD IS A LIER, IS CLEAR AND DIRECT WORD OF GOD.
"when jesus mention or say he is son of god, and talk about the father, it refars to Jeremiah 31:9,"
While I believe this to be a completely false assertion, it is completely irrelevant. Jesus being God does not rest upon his title as "Son of God."
I've already demonstrated to you and rebutted your assertions (Though in fairness you have not had time to dispute the rebuttals) that Jesus is called DIRECTLY God and not just "Son of God."
chapter we were discussing John 1 as John 1:12 says that all who believe in Jesus are given the right to BECOME children of God. So obviously OTHERS are referred to as Sons of God.
However, NEVER is Jesus reffered to as "Teknon" (Son of God) as humans are referred to which implies the human aspect of birth. That is why believers are called "Born again" as we are BORN INTO becoming God's child. Jesus however is never refered to in this sense since he is and always been "Ho Huios" or Son of
God. Ho Huios is indicative of relationship and not birth. Teknon is derived from Tikto which means to give birth.
The difference between the two is made clear in Romans 8:14-21 Tekna refers to those who are born of God and Huioi refers to those who show maturity acting as sons of God.
All that said, Jesus did not refer to himself as Son of God as his primary title. The most common title Jesus used was Son of Man and he referenced the exact location from which this title comes - Daniel
7:13-14 which is a clear verse indication of his deity.
"In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed."
That The "Son of Man" (Jesus' asserted title by his own mouth) is lead into the presence of the ancient of days and he receives SOVEREIGN POWER and his Kingdom is ETERNAL. Why? So that everyone would WORSHIP Him.
THAT is the title Jesus gives to himself and he quotes this in Mark 14:62 answering the question, "Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?"
As a side note, that is why the athropomorphic term(human word to explain God) "Son" is used in the first place for Jesus
where is the Wife who is one with god, since one is by marrige, "not children".
or is it the HOlY SPIRIT which is also the SAME GOD, and they preduced jesus.
or for you its not Tri, its Bi "im sorry you never mentioned the holy ghost, seems you dont consider God is the Holy Ghost/spirit, or part of that GOD CLUB
The Marriage is not a triune relationship. That does not negate the Godhead from being tirune. If two can be one then 3 can be one. God says that TWO are ONE FLESH and yet husband and wife are completely distinct. Just the same Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are ONE GOD.
I have said this at least 10 times in conversation with you. Yet, you MUST (Because you cannot break the argument down) try to TWIST and DISTORT what I have said to assert that I don't believe the Holy Spirit is God. Sad!
And you continued to insult and mock and this video is a perfect example. You have been unable in the slightest to refute what I have asserted so you resort to mockery.
im not moking anything, but its christians who take it to extreme,
either jesus was god or he was a lier, eith this or that.
im talking back to you the way you put stuff.
he said "my father" and you took it to extreme, while that man deedat intterupted it in a logical way, same logic you use to intterupt the other "son of man" or when jesus says he out of himself can do nothing, its the father who is doing all.
see? TWO SIDES if its your logic, why to accept yours without OBJECTIVE PROOF
Flase. You send that idiotic video of someone who is mocking Christianity and saying that he explains it better.
That is an utterly assinine mocking assertion and does nothing to promote understanding or harmony between us.
If you have objections, then by all means assert them. I have made the same argument many times and have heard many objections. Mr Deedat speaks no differntly than I. he asserts his argument as if it is a fact. I do nothing different.
no, they are standing on the basis of the "bible" the words of the bible as you "christians" explain them. and as each sect of christianity twist it to suites what they preach, that video of the trinity its stupid, somehow funny "to those who dont believe in trinity" even it might insult "belivers" yet, somehow isnt it true. jesus is god, yet he is the son of god and there is the holy spirit and so on.
any explanation for tirinity is refuable, MISITERS/PRIESTS say just BELIEVE & HAVE FAITH.
they are one "concept" but not one person, LOOK WHAT YOU SAY, MARRIGE.
THEY ARE NOT ONE FLESH, they are sepearte persons joined in one issue "i.e marrige PARTNERSHIP". like marrige would end by divorce or death of any of the parts involved in it. but forever they would be TWO COMPLETE SEPERATE PERSONS, that would lead to two GODS not on in three looks/phases. and its Trinity, since the holy ghost is as well GOD, but yet they are DIFFERENT, not ONE.
God NEVER dies. One of the attributes of God is that he is eternal. In Christianity he NEVER dies.
God cannot "divorce" because divorce only happens because os sin on one or both parties part. I have already stated that once.
As bizarre as your "Clining JEsus" comment is, what would that prove? That his humanity was clonable?
Jesus is fully HUMAN and FULLY GOD. Even if they cloned the body of Jesus it would not mean that God would be forced to play along to the humans cloning.
LOL! You say that as if I have said something new. Christianity does not nor has it ever asserted that God dies. Jesus the HUMAN died on the cross for the sins of mankin and THAT is plainly stated in scripture.
Philippians 2:5-8
5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
hmm then what about all the preachings "god died for our sins"??
because for chirstian faith, its god that has to die and give his blood to be able to give that salvation for all mankind.
PRIESTS & PREACHERS SAID THIS, not my invention.
so either you dont know christianity, or you dont know christianty,"i wont say harsh words".
and again you talk about God/ Son being differnt thought its 3in1 "trinity" that GOD IS ONE, not the "concept of goodhood/godclub" which again contradicts christanity
"hmm then what about all the preachings "god died for our sins"??"
I do not believe you have heard correctly but as with out conversation you repeatedly took things that I said and twisted them into somethign completely OTHER than what I had said.
You may have heard "Jesus Christ, the Son of God, died for our sins" or something along those lines.
But you will never find anywhere within Christian theology for the entire span of history of the faith that asserts that God died.
God dying #1 is impossible by Christian faith which asserts that God is eternal. #2. God dying would solve nothing (even if it were possible). Sin is paid for because a HUMAN, a MAN, FULLY MAN, was tempted in all things just as every man is tempted and he sinned not. (Hebrews 4:15) THAT ALONE is the reason why he was able to atone for the sins of mankind.
As a sinless human he did not deserve the penalty of sin. Thus, he could become your payment for sin. He could LEGALLY take your place
and become your sin offering just as the goat was offered for the sins of the nation of Israel on the day of atonement (Leviticus 16:15-17) and thus the reason that Jesus is called the "Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world." (John 1:29)
THAT is the historical assertion of the church and I am quite familiar with it and it's history.
"which again contradicts christanity"
I don't know what you're talking about. Please clarify.
you go arround, jeses is GOD, GOD IS ONE "even the trinity" the problem in explaing it is that its ONE PERSON YET THREE FACES OR THREE WAYS OR THREE LAYERS OR SO ON AND SO ON.
the first word "john 1:1" where you say it clear and defend that the "word" is GOD, which is the same for GOD ALMIGHTY, and that they are the SAME inspite of the trinity or whatever.
we go arround DENFINE TRINITY. IS IT ONE GOD OR THREE GODS???
Look my friend. You will run into a problem at any point that you start trying to define God or his power. Human words and analogies will ALWAYS fall short. The very nature of who God is demands this.
For example, please explain to me exactly how Allah created light. If you cannot, then obviously God is not a God of confusion so light cannot exist. That would be a ridiculous scenario for me to assert wouldn't it. Ultimately your reponse would be, but you can see light so it MUST be.
i think d guy with red sweater r really really gay.
dongani88 1 month ago
insyaf eric
dongani88 1 month ago
Fake
Fluxxxed62 1 month ago
Eric is speechless allah akber !!
ZACFAHADJESSE 4 months ago
Amazing.... their god is Jesus, yet they completely ignore his teachings and his words.... instead they attach themselves to some guys named Paul, Mark, Matthew, Luke and Peter.
I cannot swallow or digest this absurdity... its hurting my ears to listen to these ignorant men go on and on about drinking their creators blood and eating his flesh. Filth, absolute rubbish.
hafizf86 8 months ago
@hafizf86 Jesus told you from his own mouth REPEATEDLY that he came to die (Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:33-34). He also told you REPEATEDLY exactly HOW he would die by crucifixion (Matthew 20:19,26:2) and he even told you exactly WHY he would die for the sins of many (Matthew 26:28).
He did this in agreement with the prophets who foretold the very event (Isaiah 53:4-6,10,12, Psalms 22) and with the law which requires sacrifice for the atonement of sin (Lev. 16:15-16,17:11, Hebrews 9:22)
(cont.)
jorsak 8 months ago
Now, you can call it filth, rubbish, or whatever language you feel comfortable to use against the word of God but myself I think that's quite dangerous.
Jesus was plainly clear about his purpose and Islam makes him out to be a liar by denying that. But I understand that Islam MUST attempt to deny the crucifixion as the false message of the Qur'an makes that claim as it also makes the false claim that Muhammad is found in the Law and in the Gospels.
Since Islam fails to prove these (cont.)
jorsak 8 months ago
points it is obvious that the Qur'an is of a false origin.
Blessings,
Joe
jorsak 8 months ago
@jorsak Thats why Islam is growing at an alarming rate... and christianity is dwindling by the numbers?
hafizf86 8 months ago
@hafizf86 Actually Islam is growing primarily (and this is extremely well established) by birth rate and that is in Eurpean countries where the largely Anglo population is not reproducing at rates even high enough to sustain their own cultures. Islam is also "surviving" because in countries where it is the majority they most often allow no freedom of religion. Tell me how easy it is for a Saudi to convert to Christianity! It would mean death.
And I hate to tell you but Christianity (cont.)
jorsak 8 months ago
is far from declining. It is estimated that 1/3 or China will be Christian by 2025 for example. Christianity will be the dominate world religion for a long long time.
Never the less, even if there were only ONE Christian, that would not change the truth of it.
Jesus told you on MANY occasions that he came to die and that proves Islam (or the Qur'an) is false.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 8 months ago
@jorsak give us the qote that says that islam is wrong and the quran is fals! tell us about those many occasions, he might have also been talking about the christians of today, cause when he come back he tells to christians, depart from me i never knew you,
darklightraven 6 months ago
@darklightraven The Qur'an is false on many things but in specific, let's address a couple major points:
#1. The Qur'an claims that Muhammad is found in the Law (Torah) - Surah 7:157,
He never appears in the Law
#2. The Qur'an claims that Muhammad is found in the Gospels - Surah 61:6
#3. The Qur'an claims that the crucifixion never occured - Surah 4:157
and yet we see Jesus REPEATEDLY telling you he came to die (Mark 8:31,9:31,10:33-34, etc.)
The Qur'an is false on all accounts.
jorsak 6 months ago
@jorsak the first answer i put it on your wall cause here it wasn't accepted, well now for the crucifixion: in the quran it is said that he was elevated to heaven and the soul of judas i guess was put in his body, so jesus is not yet dead, but he will come back and fight for the humanity and then he will die, and the christians believed that he died for you to forgive adams sins, but he die for humanity when he fights against dajal, that's when he comes to die. your bible is just what some
darklightraven 6 months ago
@jorsak 3- your bible has been changed, what's in the bible is just according to and to and to, paul even wrote the bible according to his dreams, but the real one is in jerusalem in the orthodox church which was some how banned cause it will break the base of chritianity, i can give you links to the national geography document about it, it was writen by jesus's brother, it is even before the gospel, it is some how the real injil
darklightraven 6 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@darklightraven " your bible has been changed, what's in the bible is just according to and to and to"
Unable to refute the points I've listed, you've went on to reference a spurious document that you can "provide links to." The Bible is unchanged. The "According tos" are the eye witness accounts of Jesus' life. God called prophets throughout time to document what he wanted documented. That is unchanging. Jesus, just as he did with Old Testament writers, called his disciples (Cont.)
jorsak 5 months ago
@jorsak to document what he wanted them to document. Paul, just as all the rest, was called by God to document what God wanted him to document.
You're book? The Qur'an? Supposedly the angel Gabriel appeared to Muhammad in a cave. Did anyone see it? Was it witness by ANYONE other than Muhammad? No. Did Muhammad offer up miracles as proof that he had actually been visited by an Angel of God? No.
Islam contradicts the law of God, the prophets, and Jesus himself. That is completely clear.
jorsak 5 months ago
@jorsak The miracel of mohammed peace be upon him is the QURAN. PRODUCE A BOOK LIKE IT IF YOU ARE SPEAKING THE TRUTH. That is the miracel of mohamed peace be upon and the proof that he is speaking the truth and the proof that gabriel came to him.
Abdelmajid22 1 month ago
@Abdelmajid22 A subjective challenge like "Produce a book like it" is not a challenge. Your OPINION and those that follow Islam is that there is no book of equal. However, where is the prophecy fulfillment? Where is the miraculous? Where are the eye witnesses to Gabriel's meeting Mohamed? They are all absent.
jorsak 1 month ago
@jorsak were does the islam contradicts the law of god???? your bible is full of contradictios it has diverent writters, is that a so called a book of god. Let us speak the truth your book is not one you have like more then 50 books of the bibles. Hence we dont speak of one bible like you claim. Look if you talk about miracles to proof that mohammed is a profet send by god. It is the quran for us because READ IT YOU WILL FIND NOT ONE UNREASINABLE THING in it. That is a true miracle.
Abdelmajid22 1 month ago
@Abdelmajid22 Islam Contradicts the law of God, the prophets of God, and even Jesus himself. The law of God calls for sacrifice for sin (Leviticus 16:15-17, 17:11), it contradicts the prophets who said the Messiah would come to die for the sins of mankind (Isaiah 53, Psalm 22) and It contradicts Jesus who said on many occasions that he came to die (Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:33-34) specifically that he would die on the cross (Matthew 20:19, 26:2) and even WHY he must die (Matthew 26:28).
jorsak 1 month ago
@jorsak There are NO and I mean ZERO contradictions in the bible. There are only self created contradictions which are easily answered.
It matters not if the Bible is considered one book or one hundred books. They are books written by those God has called TO write them just as Mohammed was supposedly called. One book or One hundred, the God who called is the same.
jorsak 1 month ago
@jorsak Islam doesnt contradict nothing. It is your opninion that islam conttradicts the law of god. Look for me i cant understand that you believe in a human as a god. A human cries, dies, has hunger wants to drink, has lusts, do you consider that a god? think about it? and why does god need to kill himself for us? he is almighty and the most high if he wats to forgive he forgives us and doesnt need to spill blood for it. It is only your fabrication that you made god to a human.
Abdelmajid22 1 month ago
@Abdelmajid22 Is it my opinion? The law requires sacrifice for sin. Fact (Leviticus 16:15-16, 17:11) Do you sacrifice for your sins?
You then ask, "A human cries, dies, has hunger wants to drink, has lusts, do you consider that a god?"
What you, and Mr. Deedat, fail to realize is that the Messiah is both FULLY God AND Fully human. Scripture says this plainly. (Isaiah 9:6, Philippians 2:5-7)
You then ask, "Why God needs to kill himself..." The law requires sacrifice for sin. (Cont.)
jorsak 1 week ago
@jorsak If God simply "Forgives" sin without adhering to his law, then he has #1. contradicted himself and #2. made himself a terrible judge. God is a perfect judge and is also perfectly merciful at the same time. Only through the cross is perfect justice and perfect mercy seen.
jorsak 1 week ago
@jorsak look islam didnt came with a new message or a new religion. It just confirmed what it is the torra and the bibel. It is the same message it is only you people of the book that have changed the message of god. so dont come to me with your story about that we contradict the law of god it is you people that contradict it. and if you think i talk rubish i would like to tell you abut the next surah (verse) of the quran.
Abdelmajid22 1 month ago
@Abdelmajid22 Islam contradicts the law (as I have already demonstrated conclusively) and Islam contradicts Jesus himself directly.
Jesus REPEATEDLY stated that he came to die (Mark 8:31, 9:31, 10:33-34)
Jesus REPEATEDLY stated HOW he would die by crucifixion (Matthew 20:19, 26:2)
Jesus told you EXACTLY WHY he must die (Matthew 26:28)
and yet, Islam contradicts this all.
jorsak 1 week ago
@jorsak Qur'an 3:64-71 Surah Ale-'Imran (The Family of 'Imran)
Say: "O people of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but Allah; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and patrons other than Allah." If then they turn back say: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to Allah's will)."
Abdelmajid22 1 month ago
@jorsak Allah swt has spoken to you in that verse and many others. I am not in my right as a muslim to discuss with you about the bible. I believe in your bible as a believe also in the torrah but your books are corrupted and only allah knows what is still true and what is not true anymore in the bible. The verse that i have given you is the only thing i can give you as a muslim. Enough said may allah swt guide you the right path.
Abdelmajid22 1 month ago
@Abdelmajid22 Every "Corruption" you have in mind is a fabrication of your teachers.
God, as God, is fully capable of protecting his word and to insinuate otherwise demeans the character of God.
jorsak 1 week ago
@Abdelmajid22 A simple question for you: Uthman burned variants. This is an indisputable fact of Islam. Question, did Utham burn correct and uncorrupted versions of the Qur'an or did he burn variants?
If he burned corruptions, the your claim that the Bible was corrupted, is meaningless as the Qur'an experienced the same path. If he burned uncorrupted versions... well, you get the idea.
jorsak 1 week ago
@jorsak and another verse from the quran for you: (verse: 22:47) Do they not travel through the land, so that their hearts (and minds) may thus learn wisdom and their ears may thus learn to hear? Truly it is not their eyes that are blind, but their hearts which are in their breasts.
Abdelmajid22 1 month ago
"Ritual which is pagan in origin".... so Jesus and his companions never practiced this, but the christians of today know better then their God
hafizf86 8 months ago
i feel sorry :(
Afghanistang 10 months ago
i am really pity about these posters.they are child in front of ahamed deedath
riaz5768 1 year ago
busenbeisser@ My brother, let alone whom they lie to Jesus peace be upon him and give it things did not say why be surprised that they are lying on the prophet Mohammed peace be upon him, did not you see how Deedat crushed them so they are spiteful to Islam, but Islam is the way to heaven, and I wish to be present When Jesus peace be upon him deny them and he `ll ask them did I say I`m God? go a way stupid ppl
MrBigboss20011 1 year ago
maybe Jesus is no God but Mohament is???????hahahahahaha with killing people became propet????????
aliki131313 1 year ago
@aliki131313 my god who said mohamed its god?
i dont understand you. you said its mohamed god? with killing ppl became propet?
busenbeisser 1 year ago
My dear friend I don't want to convince you to accept Christianity but my appeal to Muslims is not to follow the book which orders the killing of the people because it can't be from god and the bible warns u that every other gospel other than the Bible should be accursed and I am begging you to speak with Stanley VILLAVINCENCIO from city of Cebu in Philippines who was 3 days clinically dead and after three days his family prepared for funeral and after 3 days he stood up healthy.
austriaheute 1 year ago
@austriaheute My dear friend, it shows ignorance on ur part in the u make that "appeal"... Quran doesn't order the "killing of people"... Kindly give a reference to support ur accusation...
sarim2kpk 1 year ago
@austriaheute it cant order killing ppl? yes it can but with a porpuse and a cause.
on ur standards u have to deny ur bible because ur bible orders the killing of innocents unlike the qor'an which orders the killing of the guilty
khalilrabee 10 months ago
@khalilrabee " u have to deny ur bible because ur bible orders the killing of innocents unlike the qor'an which orders the killing of the guilty"
There is no single verse in the Bible where you can back up this claim. In order to back this claim, you yourself would be required to play God and tell me who is "innocent" because God has called any group which he gives the command to kill as a whole "evil."
So, show me a verse where God has said to kill someone innocent in scripture.
jorsak 8 months ago
@jorsak acording to mathew ALL THE SCRIPTURE is profitable...and all the scripture means old and new testament and acording to old testament u can dash babies to stone, u can eat ur children, u can kill a man to take his wife, u can kill the entire population of a city as a war tactic etc...many many rapes and killings in the bible...
u want me to back my claims? read ur bible before u ask me to
khalilrabee 8 months ago
@khalilrabee Yes, as ANY good response includes supporting evidence. I can state that pink unicorns fly but without supporting evidence it's called conjecture. All scripture is profitable as it serves as a historical record of events, prophecy, law, etc.
You make the claim that the OT records God killing innocent people. I called falsehood on that statement and tell you to bring your proof. So far.... no proof.
jorsak 8 months ago
@khalilrabee PS. The verse you reference is 2 Timothy 3:16 rather than Matthew.
jorsak 8 months ago
i don't get this. god allows jesus to be killed.jesus is god.so god allows himself to be killed?so if god dies then what is the state of earth? no wonder tsunamies and earthquakes!
staffsergeant77 1 year ago
@staffsergeant77 No. What your issue is is that you do not understand one of the core teachings of Christianity (Which Deedat also does not understand).
The Messiah is both FULLY God and FULLY man. This is plainly stated (Philippians 2:5-8, John 1:1, 14, etc.)
The ROLE of the Messiah was to come and die for the sins of mankind (Isaiah 53, Matthew 26:28). The prophets stated this and Jesus himself stated this.
Jesus did not die as God. He died as a sinless HUMAN as an atonement (cont.)
jorsak 1 year ago
for sin in fulfillment of the requirements of the law and the prophets.
Salaam,
Joe
jorsak 1 year ago
at 2:34 / 9:52 Erick mock said that eating the flesh and drinking the blood of Jesus is an anceint pagan ritual...so basically the whole of christondom is based on pagan rituals...from drinking the blood of Jesus to drinking urine, thinking he was GOD and a man at the same time....ehehehe jokerz!!
saifulah1303 2 years ago
im a muslim but come on pastor you can NOT call the christian a pegan belif
MultiTruthseeker1 2 years ago
OMG Pastor, are u saying all Christians are Vampires trying to Drink the Blood of Jesus ( Peace be upon him). This is such a disgusting way of thinking and preaching about Jesus. I have watched so many lectures and I have always seen that Muslim Scholars Quote and prove every detail from the Quran and Bible. But the Christian Scholas never prove any statement from the BIBLE OR QURAN. THEY HAVE CHANGED SO MANY STATEMENTS AND MISLED SO MANY PEOPLE. Sorry for so called Christians.
befair4all 2 years ago
poor pastor
TheCoolmuslim 2 years ago
thank you so much for sharing this video & all the previous ones :) i appreciate it :)
SimoDluffy 2 years ago 2
@SimoDluffy First we must establish that the Bible in no way teaches that Holy Trinity is 1+1+1= 1, but rather A=B and B=C. In Mathematic this is known as Associative Property. There is only one God who created man and gave life—the Mighty God. Job 33:4 reads, [The Spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.] Here A and B are equal. Isaiah 9:6 says the Son is the Mighty God. Now A = B and B = C. If A=B and B=C, then A and C are equal to each other.
123dsj123 2 years ago
Fableishit is shit!! HEHE
AAAjMMMiRRR 2 years ago
I understand that this is a contest for you because for a FAGGOT like you you have NO ATTENTION in the outside world sitting home waiting for the NEX CORN.....lol....
Dude you can go on and on I could careless about you winning or loosin` dis...
Because u the one who goes around replying to everyone 4 som attention...tsk tsk tsk
NOW ASK YOUR MOTHER ABOUT YOUR DISGUSTING LIFESTYLE.....
ATTENTION DEPRIVED FAGGOT.....
now you are ignored......GO SUK A DICK
RomeoNumber1 2 years ago
Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.
jorsak 2 years ago
If you have put so much thought in ''it'' you sure know what your heart wants, otherwise you would have never been able to speak your heart out, huh.
Good luck to you and things you may desire.
RomeoNumber1 2 years ago
wow....I really don't wanna know what you do in your free time Miss Gramma Teacher....you don't have to tell the world about your DICK SUKIN` ...hhahahah....
My Mother is my everything even if she KILLS me she hasd the right to DO so as a MUSLIM Mother they HAVE THE HIGHEST AUTHORITY on this earth even 3 times more than ones own FATHER....
If she HATES ME its STILL LOVE FOR ME...thats what makes me muslim....
RomeoNumber1 2 years ago
I don't even know wtf you are talking about the laugh is on you because your eyes is crossed........hahahhahah...
Now RAN TO THE doctor and get your eyes checked up gramma teacher and don't 4get to get some English lesson for yourself.
For a STUPID LIKE YOU I DON'T HAVE TIME.
You NOT worth anyones time and you know that too, just ask your Mother.....ooops
RomeoNumber1 2 years ago
Miss ATTENTION DEPRIVED youtube gramma teacher, I could careless what your GOD thinks but I know my ALLAH is most gracious and most merciful.
I don't go on replying on the comment written a month ago for attention like you.
LMAO on you call me atheist and sayin ":Jesus" as swear .....hahahha KAPOW..bang bang.....
U r just a loser out for little attention and amazingly you know that.
RomeoNumber1 2 years ago
lol....you are so stupid that now I have to even giv the reason 4 my mistake.....or u r youtube gramma teacher....lol
Attention deprived.....I can only imagine, u deal with the reality....
jezzz talk about lunatics.
RomeoNumber1 2 years ago
ANGRY...hahahahahahahah
I Know Allah is Most Gracious and Most Merciful. unllike white people Change the of Isaa pbuh to Jesus and made His image into a WHITE MAN with blond hair and Blue eyes...lol
Dude even the name and idol of so called Son of could NOT be kept in thereal form...hum you make the judgment on what else is messed in the religion...lol...
Attention is exactly what you after thats for sure......
RomeoNumber1 2 years ago
sorry for this poor pastor and his poor fellow
apurelondner 2 years ago
You are giving me your 100% ACTUAL proof of seeing GOD as..........???
Besides you are writing to me because you wanna get SOME ATTENTION......lol
RomeoNumber1 2 years ago
That person in read is so feminine...
KhorRori 2 years ago
Our Christain brothers are so dooped with devil, that even their bible shows them so many defects yet they are acting deaf dumb and blind. May Allah show them the right path and save them from hell, Ameen.
RomeoNumber1 2 years ago
the man should at least have had a translator
pokebum93 2 years ago
Peace jorsak... i know the law you quote. I have given rebuttals to it. I will give you more.
Please read MATHEW 21
Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, the tax collectors and the prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God ahead of you. 32For John came to you to show you the way of righteousness, and you did not believe him, but the tax collectors and the prostitutes did. And even after you saw this, you did not repent and believe him.
letmesee74 2 years ago
THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH JOHN LEADING HIS FLOCK TO JESUS.
JESUS HERE SAYS.... PEOPLE WHO FOLLOWED JOHN WERE SAVED....
Did they become perfect ?
Did anyone pay for their sins ?
The answer to both is no and yet as per jesus (God bless him) they will enter the kingdom of God (heaven).
as pointed in book of eziekal...... repenatnce is the main thing. HOSEA CHANGES THE LAW OF SACRIFICE...
Jesus above and in Luke 10 clearly proves that belief in One God and your deeds save you
letmesee74 2 years ago
See below arguments as they already address the assertions.
Additionally, see video 9 where this has been answered at length.
Blessings,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
I don't think anybody will stand Deedat level
BekUSA 2 years ago
they are not on deedat's level
DirteatDirt 2 years ago
seriously, why did they choose eric bock? he was the clear loser..
imblueroses 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Because Mr. Deedat was in the business to sell books and tapes. I do not mean that as disrespectful but to debate people who actually make a living at debate (IE. William Lane Craig) wouldn't sell as many books and tapes.
jorsak 3 years ago
joe, even today, the IPCI gives their books for free, i just recieved a book from them that they ask for 20 Rands to cover the cost of printing, and i didnt give them a penny for it. as for the lecture series, deedat tells us that if we want we can make copies and sell them, so it was never for him to make money from his debates, yes he welcomed the money because it helped in his cause, but never did he do what he did for money, watch his videos carefully and you will hear him say that.
naliakbar 3 years ago
christians are canibbals!! they did not eat raw meat and bloods but they eat there god! hahahahahahaha
phigammasigma 3 years ago 15
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Have you ever heard of metaphor?
jorsak 3 years ago
@phigammasigma come on brother don't criticize them. they are just lost, needing someone or something to guide their way to the right path and insyaAllah for those who seek truth shall find the truth.
staffsergeant77 1 year ago
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Sexxistentialist 1 year ago
after listening to the debats of mr dedat , i think no one can deny that he is right , in islam we don't have unclear things , and that no one shall bear your sins you will carry them until you meet your creator then he will judge you , so why God send his son to remove our sins by killing him (it is not fair ) and what about people before that , they can say oh god why you didnot send to us your son ,
medokhodeery 3 years ago 13
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#1. Before Jesus was the Levitical law. The Levitical law clearly lays out a system of sacrifice to atone for sin. It is well establish. Please read Leviticus chapter 16. Specifically read verses 15-17. The day is called "Yom Kippur" or "The Day of atonement" and is the day that the high priest atones for all the sins of the nation.
Atonement for sin by sacrifice is well establish and THAT is what the people did before Jesus came to pay for their sins.
#2. Because the blood of bulls and
jorsak 3 years ago
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goats cannot perfectly atone for the sins of man and was just a shadow of the good thing that was to come (Jesus), God sent his son to become the PERFECT atonement for sin once for all time. Please reads Hebrews chapter 10 for a clear and precise explanation of this very subject.
jorsak 3 years ago
The Old Testament (Jewish law) says there is no remission (forgiveness) of sins without the shedding of blood sacrifice. Jesus was the final sacrificial lamb, killed to atone for sins.
fwfassett 2 years ago
NOT TRUE. Read book of eziekal.
Further OT also replaces blood sacrfice (OF ANIMALS) with other things... like charity, being kind to others.
letmesee74 2 years ago
Greetings Letmesee74. I hope all is well with you and yours.
I understand that you, as Muslims most often do, believe that sin does not require sacrifice for forgiveness. You point to Ezekiel 18 as an evidence of this.
However, Ezekiel 18 does not support this notion at all. Repentence for every believer is a turning away from sin. Is this chapter that speaks on repentence meant to then DO AWAY with the law?
By no means!
If Ezekiel had intended to do away with the law, why(cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
would he repeatedly quote God as saying things like, "On the day he goes into the inner court of the sanctuary to minister in the sanctuary, he is to offer a sin offering for himself, declares the Sovereign LORD." Ezekiel 44:27
Now WHY would the priest offer a sin offering if all he had to do was simply repent according to Ezekiel 18? Of course, Ezekiel knew what EVERY Jew knew. The LAW REQUIRES sacrifice for sin.
At no point does God contradict himself and remove the requirements (cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
of the law.
Jesus states in Matthew 5:17, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill."
What does the law say about sacrifice for sin? That's a lengthy conversation but I encourage you to study Yom Kippur or "the Day of Atonement" which is specifically discussed in Leviticus 16.
Pay close attention to the role of the High priest in verses 15-16 which state plainly:
15 "He shall then slaughter the goat for the
(cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
sin offering for the people... whatever their sins have been.
The LAW requires annual sacrifice for sin to be made FOR THE PEOPLE by the high priest. It is unyielding. And it is plainly clear.
In Hebrews 4 we are told, "14Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has gone through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold firmly to the faith we profess."
Jesus IS our High Priest and as High Priest, in accordance with th elaw, he offered a sacrifice for the people.
(Cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
What do the prophets say? This too i s a lengthy subject but lets us review one of teh greatest prophets, Isaiah and specifically Isaiah 53.
Speaking of the Messiah Isaiah 53 states, " 5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities;" and again "10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,"
So the prophets are clear that YHWH offers the Messiah as a Guilt offering.
(Cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
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jorsak 2 years ago
And that is why Hebrews 10:10 states plainly, "And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all."
And further in chapter 10 it states, "21and since we have a great priest over the house of God, 22let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience "
It is ONLY through Jesus that the sacrificial law and the prophets are fulfilled .
(Cont.)
jorsak 2 years ago
Thus we can see that Ezekiel 18 is by no means contradicting the law or doing away with the requirements of the law.
Thus, on careful study of the law and the prophets which Jesus states he came to fulfill, we see that they both clearly require sacrifice for sin and that is why Jesus offered himself as the perfect sacrifice fulfilling the requirements of teh law and the prophets perfectly.
Blessings on you and yours,
Joe
jorsak 2 years ago
Read the New Testament of the Bible of the words said by Yeshua (JESUS):
Matthew 5:17 "Do not think that I came to replace the Torah and the teachings of the prophets; I did not come to destroy them, but rather to fulfill them."
Matthew 15:24 "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Luke 18:19 "Why do you call me good? There are none good but God."
John 6:38 "For I came down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of him that sent me".
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago
(continued)
John 8:58 "I am telling you the truth, before Abraham was born, 'I Am'."
John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
John 11:25-26 "I am the resurrection and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die."
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago
(continued)
John 14:6 "I am the truth, the way, and the life: no one comes to the Father, but by me."
John 17:5 "And now, O Father, give me glory in thy presence, the same glory I had with thee before the world was made."
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago
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Isaiah 7:14 and Isaiah 9:6 speaks about the birth of the Messiah. Immanuel from Isaiah 7:14 means "God with us", God came to earth from heaven and incarnated and manifested in the flesh in the person of Yeshua the Messiah. Yeshua HaMashiach is Immanuel meaning Yeshua HaMashiach is The Incarnation of Yahweh.
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago
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Yeshua HaMashiach was not the first appearance of God in the flesh. It is ridiculous, hypocrisy and insane if you say and think that you can do anything that God can't do. God can do anything according to his will, he can interact with his creation and above all of that God appeared and manifested himself in the flesh many times in the Tanakh (see Genesis 3:8, Genesis 18:1-14, Genesis 32:24-30, Exodus 24:9-11, Joshua 5:13-15, Judges 13:22, Proverbs 30:4).
knightsofstjoan2004 3 years ago
That's a guy, the one in the red, a guy? You sure that's not a she?
faro0485 3 years ago 4
"That's a guy, the one in the red, a guy? You sure that's not a she?"
Looks like one of those sunday school child-fiddlers.
nv1 3 years ago
Avoid formula milk... and soy when it comes to boys and girls.
faro0485 3 years ago
Typical ad-hominem behavior.
jorsak 3 years ago
you shouldn't say that!
that is a very unislamic comment, also it is haram to make fun of people or judge them, salam
abdulr118 3 years ago 5
I feel like the christian guys on the stage are behaving just liek children. They are not behaving with CONFINDENCE.
MatrixOfDynamism 3 years ago 2
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Jesus said he was/is God when he said I and the Father are one,for the Jews picked up rocks to stone Jesus for claiming to be God
John 10:33
The Jews understood when Jesus said I and the Father are One that it meant Jesus was saying He is God but when you give this proof to Muslims they refute it,why?
Because the Koran forbids Muslims to contradict Muh otherwise other Muslims will slaughter them
and that prevents Muslims from seeing and accepting the proof that they pretended they wanted
BonjourNuit9 3 years ago
John 17-4 INTL VERSION
I have BROUGHT you glory on earth by completing the work you GAVE me to do.
the beloved KING JAMES VERSION
I have GLORIFIED thee on the earth: I have FINISHED the work which thou gavest me to do.
as clearly shown to all christians that the work of JESUS WAS DONE/FINISHED BEFORE the so called crucifiction. HENCE JESUS DID NOT come to die for the sins of mankind.
Quoting other verses WILL NOT explain the above comment by Jesus.
letmesee74 3 years ago
no where in the bible....
NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE I REPEAT..
DID JESUS SAY HE HAS FINISHED HIS WORK OTHER THAN JOHN 17-4
JOHN 17-4 was before the so called crucifiction... PROVING ONCE AND FOR ALL
that Jesus did not come to die for the sins of mankind
letmesee74 3 years ago
HECK!!! Christians, instead of giving this dude a negative score for his RATIONAL question, enlight us with your answer!!!!!!!!!!
Kottkottktok 3 years ago
What question would you like answered specifically?
jorsak 3 years ago
Letmesee74's comment, and I quote:
"John 17-4 INTL VERSION
I have BROUGHT you glory on earth by completing the work you GAVE me to do.
the beloved KING JAMES VERSION
I have GLORIFIED thee on the earth: I have FINISHED the work which thou gavest me to do.
as clearly shown to all christians that the work of JESUS WAS DONE/FINISHED BEFORE the so called crucifiction. HENCE JESUS DID NOT come to die for the sins of mankind.
Quoting other verses WILL NOT explain the above comment"
Kottkottktok 3 years ago
Ahh... I thought you were speaking of the video. I have answered Letmesee74's question on two separate occasions and have stated the exact location. For that reason I have not desired to REPEAT the lengthy response again. He simply does not like the answer.
However, I will be happy to answer the question for you at length via e-mail this evening when I arrive home from work.
Blessings,
Joe
jorsak 3 years ago
there is a reason hy they wont answer Kottokottktok. They do not have one.
All christians can do is cry and whine. Jorsak is a liar and a hypocrite and you will see it here. They will try their best to hide this topic by quoting verses having no relation with my question.
letmesee74 3 years ago
Ok he messaged me with a very detailed reasoning quoting the bible and I answered with a very detailed reasoning quoting the bible, let's see if he's objective or not.
رَبِّ احْكُمْ بِالْحَقِّ وَرَبُّنَا الرَّحْمَنُ الْمُسْتَعَانُ عَلَى مَا تَصِفُونَ
Kottkottktok 3 years ago
After 16 pages, we don't agree. But you received a lengthy argument presenting the answer.
jorsak 3 years ago
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No prophet was to come after Jesus
Deedat was a Muslim and Muslims were taught Jesus was not God
but God said he would come into humanform to die on the cross to which he did and he did so to prove He was and is God who alone is with all people closer to them then their own jugluar vein for God knew when peoeple understood that God alone guides people best and when people themselves experienced God,it would end sufferings and restore the world back to true paradise
BonjourNuit8 3 years ago
at the end of time It is JESUS that will judge the world! where is prophet Muhammad?
He also will be judge!
aloyblue 3 years ago
And how is it that Mohamed will Judge mankind?
How can he know the hearts and minds of mankind? THAT is what is required to judge. You cannot know sin without knowing the heart of the one committing it.
Mohamed is not God and does not possess omniscience.
jorsak 3 years ago
from where you concluded that i said this???
weird how you put words in my mouth.
and its only GOD who knows whats in the person's heart.
alhanounn 3 years ago
"from where you concluded that i said this"
The following statement: "where is prophet Muhammad? He also will be judge!"
Did you not say that Mohammad will judge?
I did not put words in your mouth at all. I responded to what you posted.
jorsak 3 years ago
LOL
aloyblue A DIE HARD CHRISTIAN LIKE YOURSELF WAS SYAING THIS, AND MEANING THAT JESUS WILL JUDGE THE PEOPLE "something like thiat"
or you want to find another topic to jump from what you admited.
alhanounn 3 years ago
What in the world are you going on about?
I said Jesus will Judge all mankind. THAT is his assertion - not mine. And then expanded on that idea to logically conclude that in order to Judge you must be OMNISCIENT. Thus, by Jesus saying that He will judge all mankind he is asserting his deity.
You then responded to that with the quote I provided from you, "where is prophet Muhammad? He also will be judge!"
THAT is the context of this point.
jorsak 3 years ago
if i say stuff or critize you, its not coz i hate you, or moke you or anything like that, no i hate to see people being in that place, blinded by this "programed faith" look in an open heart & mind to all what "religons" on earth say, and see which is true for real and which is not. then you will find your salvation, the truth & the way to the light.
i can give you sites to check, but would you really read them with open heart & mind, or just ignore or look at them but not read anything there!
alhanounn 3 years ago
#1. To send a video like the one you did is not criticism (And I did not assert that you hated me or anyone.)
#2. The video is someone MOCKING Crhistianity. Thus, to refer me to it under the premis that he has explained it better is not Criticism, it is mockery.
#3. You have no idea how I came to Christianity or my background of study of world religions. I am not "programmed" in the slightest and I most certainly can make the same assertions about Muslims.
As I have indicated, none
jorsak 3 years ago
of my arguments have been refuted by you. Now, who is the programmed person here? The one whose arguments have not been refuted or the one who continues believing what he believes despite having not argument against the other?
Have you read any of what I have typed with an open heart and mind? I don't think you have.
jorsak 3 years ago
if Jesus was alive among us now, or when he comes back from heavnes to lead the believers.
tell me if he performed no miracles would christians stand by him, or they will say that anti-christ is the real christ coz he will have powers to heal/ bless foot/ and even bring life to dead.
how many christians will stand by the anti-christ coz christ is 'god" who has those powers. what if jeases was not to do those.
had you ever though of that.
ends of time are closer each second now, think & think
alhanounn 3 years ago
While Miracles are an indication of power and authority (Jesus said so himself "If you do not believe me then believe the works which I have performed) Aligning with the word that has already been spoken by God is a must.
Mohamed neither performed great miracles nor does his message align with the word that was already spoken.
jorsak 3 years ago
whenever they are stuck at that point, and get argued or reasoned about it, they go "just believe/have faith" BEEN THERE MYSELF.
what is your idea for example abue judism, and islam had you "studied" for true what each say, or you looked just in a distructive criticism coz you just believe and dont want to even check if your salvation is the right/true one
alhanounn 3 years ago
I have not once argued any point with you by asserting that you just "must believe / have faith."
I have presented arguments from logical and reason using such basic tools as the dictionary and grammatical rule.
when I make an assertion I have proved supporting scripture.
What then allows you to conclude that I have come to any of my beliefs by some sort of blind faith?
jorsak 3 years ago
it all depends on the angle you look at the issues, like deedat logic, why tons of pastors/preachers and so who argued him was not "convincing" his arguments stood still.
you look at CERTAIN verses and then go explainging and intterupting, while you ignore tons of other verses whic i mentioned before yet you just passed by them.
alhanounn 3 years ago
#1. The pastors he debated (This one is a perfect example) are unknown and even seem to struggle with basic english. You will not see his video for instance of him debating Josh McDowell (a well known Christian Apologist) because Josh solidly rebuted him.
#2. I do not ignore any verses. The ONLY argument you made at all that this could remotely be ascribe to is that of "Son of God" and how you attribute those titles to Israel and David ofor vairous different reasons.
I showed you how
jorsak 3 years ago
when jesus mention or say he is son of god, and talk about the father, it refars to Jeremiah 31:9, HE IS FROM ISRAEL, BUT HE IS NOT THE ONLY SON, HE IS NOT THE FIRSTBORN, AND FOR SURE HE IS NOT THE begotten BEGOTEEN son of god, coz that was DAVID.
Psalm 2:7 "Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee."
i guess that would make it sort of clear, or you will say god was a lier????
YOU DONT FREAKING DARE SAY GOD IS A LIER, IS CLEAR AND DIRECT WORD OF GOD.
alhanounn 3 years ago
"when jesus mention or say he is son of god, and talk about the father, it refars to Jeremiah 31:9,"
While I believe this to be a completely false assertion, it is completely irrelevant. Jesus being God does not rest upon his title as "Son of God."
I've already demonstrated to you and rebutted your assertions (Though in fairness you have not had time to dispute the rebuttals) that Jesus is called DIRECTLY God and not just "Son of God."
For that matter you didn't even have to leave the
jorsak 3 years ago
chapter we were discussing John 1 as John 1:12 says that all who believe in Jesus are given the right to BECOME children of God. So obviously OTHERS are referred to as Sons of God.
However, NEVER is Jesus reffered to as "Teknon" (Son of God) as humans are referred to which implies the human aspect of birth. That is why believers are called "Born again" as we are BORN INTO becoming God's child. Jesus however is never refered to in this sense since he is and always been "Ho Huios" or Son of
jorsak 3 years ago
God. Ho Huios is indicative of relationship and not birth. Teknon is derived from Tikto which means to give birth.
The difference between the two is made clear in Romans 8:14-21 Tekna refers to those who are born of God and Huioi refers to those who show maturity acting as sons of God.
All that said, Jesus did not refer to himself as Son of God as his primary title. The most common title Jesus used was Son of Man and he referenced the exact location from which this title comes - Daniel
jorsak 3 years ago
7:13-14 which is a clear verse indication of his deity.
"In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed."
Here we clearly see
jorsak 3 years ago
That The "Son of Man" (Jesus' asserted title by his own mouth) is lead into the presence of the ancient of days and he receives SOVEREIGN POWER and his Kingdom is ETERNAL. Why? So that everyone would WORSHIP Him.
THAT is the title Jesus gives to himself and he quotes this in Mark 14:62 answering the question, "Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?"
As a side note, that is why the athropomorphic term(human word to explain God) "Son" is used in the first place for Jesus
jorsak 3 years ago
because his relationship as Son to the Father is as of the INHERITOR of the throne - as the first born inherits the lions share of the inheritence.
jorsak 3 years ago
where is the Wife who is one with god, since one is by marrige, "not children".
or is it the HOlY SPIRIT which is also the SAME GOD, and they preduced jesus.
or for you its not Tri, its Bi "im sorry you never mentioned the holy ghost, seems you dont consider God is the Holy Ghost/spirit, or part of that GOD CLUB
alhanounn 3 years ago
The Marriage is not a triune relationship. That does not negate the Godhead from being tirune. If two can be one then 3 can be one. God says that TWO are ONE FLESH and yet husband and wife are completely distinct. Just the same Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are ONE GOD.
I have said this at least 10 times in conversation with you. Yet, you MUST (Because you cannot break the argument down) try to TWIST and DISTORT what I have said to assert that I don't believe the Holy Spirit is God. Sad!
jorsak 3 years ago
watch this its here on you tube. it does explain it in simple words, better then those you explained with, /watch?v=4hxNhpfdExE
alhanounn 3 years ago
And you continued to insult and mock and this video is a perfect example. You have been unable in the slightest to refute what I have asserted so you resort to mockery.
I must say, while it saddens me, it is usual.
jorsak 3 years ago
im not moking anything, but its christians who take it to extreme,
either jesus was god or he was a lier, eith this or that.
im talking back to you the way you put stuff.
he said "my father" and you took it to extreme, while that man deedat intterupted it in a logical way, same logic you use to intterupt the other "son of man" or when jesus says he out of himself can do nothing, its the father who is doing all.
see? TWO SIDES if its your logic, why to accept yours without OBJECTIVE PROOF
alhanounn 3 years ago
"im not moking anything"
Flase. You send that idiotic video of someone who is mocking Christianity and saying that he explains it better.
That is an utterly assinine mocking assertion and does nothing to promote understanding or harmony between us.
If you have objections, then by all means assert them. I have made the same argument many times and have heard many objections. Mr Deedat speaks no differntly than I. he asserts his argument as if it is a fact. I do nothing different.
jorsak 3 years ago
So, if you can refute what I've asserted then by all means do so and I will happily respond to your rebuttal.
However, just saying I'm going to extremes does nothing to refute what I have stated and at the end of such comments, my argument still stands.
jorsak 3 years ago
no, they are standing on the basis of the "bible" the words of the bible as you "christians" explain them. and as each sect of christianity twist it to suites what they preach, that video of the trinity its stupid, somehow funny "to those who dont believe in trinity" even it might insult "belivers" yet, somehow isnt it true. jesus is god, yet he is the son of god and there is the holy spirit and so on.
any explanation for tirinity is refuable, MISITERS/PRIESTS say just BELIEVE & HAVE FAITH.
alhanounn 3 years ago
There is no aspect of the comparison of the Wife and The husband being ONE FLESH that has been refuted.
The aspects that are refutable are the aspects that YOU add to it (I.E. What about children)
It is not refutable because it is the exact analogy that God gives by employing the same word ONE (Echad) for marriage as for the Godhead.
I will certainly agree that some Christians struggle with explaining it. However, when should it ever be EASY to explain an infinite God.
jorsak 3 years ago
they are one "concept" but not one person, LOOK WHAT YOU SAY, MARRIGE.
THEY ARE NOT ONE FLESH, they are sepearte persons joined in one issue "i.e marrige PARTNERSHIP". like marrige would end by divorce or death of any of the parts involved in it. but forever they would be TWO COMPLETE SEPERATE PERSONS, that would lead to two GODS not on in three looks/phases. and its Trinity, since the holy ghost is as well GOD, but yet they are DIFFERENT, not ONE.
alhanounn 3 years ago
First of all.. they entity / partnership is ONE. We are no longer two but one flesh. THAT is what scripture says of husband and wife.
Gen. 2:24 For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
The term used for ONE flesh (Echad) is exactly that used for God (Echad). It is not me that draws that parallel but scripture.
Marriage can only end in divorce because of sin here on earth. Sin is impossible with God and thus
jorsak 3 years ago
it is impossible for God to "divorce."
jorsak 3 years ago
isnt it the christian claim that god can do anything he wants. since he is GOD. he can become a man, a bird, and so on?
even god DIES, why then divorce be "unacceptable" or its differnt standerds when it fits the theology that one is preaching.
science advance,what if they got the coffen or any of jesus close, and then got his DNA & cloned jesus/god. and so on, endless possibilities.
alhanounn 3 years ago
God NEVER dies. One of the attributes of God is that he is eternal. In Christianity he NEVER dies.
God cannot "divorce" because divorce only happens because os sin on one or both parties part. I have already stated that once.
As bizarre as your "Clining JEsus" comment is, what would that prove? That his humanity was clonable?
Jesus is fully HUMAN and FULLY GOD. Even if they cloned the body of Jesus it would not mean that God would be forced to play along to the humans cloning.
jorsak 3 years ago
so i guess thats it.
thank you for admitting what islam & christianity had been disputing about all along.
God dies or not. :) thank you for admitting what is true.
alhanounn 3 years ago
LOL! You say that as if I have said something new. Christianity does not nor has it ever asserted that God dies. Jesus the HUMAN died on the cross for the sins of mankin and THAT is plainly stated in scripture.
Philippians 2:5-8
5Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus: 6Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, 7but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
jorsak 3 years ago
8And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death — even death on a cross!"
As Jesus said himself, "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins."
If his blood hasn't been poured out for your sins then there is no forgiveness.
jorsak 3 years ago
hmm then what about all the preachings "god died for our sins"??
because for chirstian faith, its god that has to die and give his blood to be able to give that salvation for all mankind.
PRIESTS & PREACHERS SAID THIS, not my invention.
so either you dont know christianity, or you dont know christianty,"i wont say harsh words".
and again you talk about God/ Son being differnt thought its 3in1 "trinity" that GOD IS ONE, not the "concept of goodhood/godclub" which again contradicts christanity
alhanounn 3 years ago
"hmm then what about all the preachings "god died for our sins"??"
I do not believe you have heard correctly but as with out conversation you repeatedly took things that I said and twisted them into somethign completely OTHER than what I had said.
You may have heard "Jesus Christ, the Son of God, died for our sins" or something along those lines.
But you will never find anywhere within Christian theology for the entire span of history of the faith that asserts that God died.
jorsak 3 years ago
God dying #1 is impossible by Christian faith which asserts that God is eternal. #2. God dying would solve nothing (even if it were possible). Sin is paid for because a HUMAN, a MAN, FULLY MAN, was tempted in all things just as every man is tempted and he sinned not. (Hebrews 4:15) THAT ALONE is the reason why he was able to atone for the sins of mankind.
As a sinless human he did not deserve the penalty of sin. Thus, he could become your payment for sin. He could LEGALLY take your place
jorsak 3 years ago
and become your sin offering just as the goat was offered for the sins of the nation of Israel on the day of atonement (Leviticus 16:15-17) and thus the reason that Jesus is called the "Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world." (John 1:29)
THAT is the historical assertion of the church and I am quite familiar with it and it's history.
"which again contradicts christanity"
I don't know what you're talking about. Please clarify.
jorsak 3 years ago
you go arround, jeses is GOD, GOD IS ONE "even the trinity" the problem in explaing it is that its ONE PERSON YET THREE FACES OR THREE WAYS OR THREE LAYERS OR SO ON AND SO ON.
the first word "john 1:1" where you say it clear and defend that the "word" is GOD, which is the same for GOD ALMIGHTY, and that they are the SAME inspite of the trinity or whatever.
we go arround DENFINE TRINITY. IS IT ONE GOD OR THREE GODS???
alhanounn 3 years ago
Look my friend. You will run into a problem at any point that you start trying to define God or his power. Human words and analogies will ALWAYS fall short. The very nature of who God is demands this.
For example, please explain to me exactly how Allah created light. If you cannot, then obviously God is not a God of confusion so light cannot exist. That would be a ridiculous scenario for me to assert wouldn't it. Ultimately your reponse would be, but you can see light so it MUST be.
jorsak 3 years ago
Jesus said and did things that, to any intellectually honest person, results in saying you can observe that He is God in the flesh so it MUST be.
Because I lack the words to explain something that I DO understand in a way that YOU can understand it really doesn't negate that it is.
I have shown you (even using texts that Muslims use to prove he is NOT God - John 5:19) to show you how he definitely made God claims.
Seriously, What prophet ever says that he can give eternal life? or that
jorsak 3 years ago