Tae Kwon Do - Po Eun

[aiHung1]

This video clip look like Kata of Karate rather than Pomse of Taekwondo

[nghoaivan2]

@aiHung1 : Thanks for visiting my Youtube Chain. Congratulations for your impressing talent ! Em rất xuất sắc. Có thời giờ thì tập thêm đòn tay cho đầy đủ nhé (kick boxing, full contact karate ...). Chúc em một năm mới nhiều thành công.

[rishajeremiah]

i dont understand what the big fuss is either. doesn't matter how similar one kata from one style is similar to a kata from another style. all styles pretty much started from one original source. tae kwon do for example, it first was hwa rang do, then chung do kwon, then wta taekwondo, then itf taekwondo, then came along wtf taekwondo. plus sister styles like tang soo do and so on.

[SJamesGray]

Huh? I don't understand what the big fuss is. I practice Chung do Kwon so I can't really comment but the technique looks solid. I wouldn't really criticize unless you folks are able to actually post a video where you practice it better than nghoaivan2.

[tukero]

Did you see the diference in the moves on other videos from ITF? why you execute so similiar to a kata from karata than a tul from TKD?

[nghoaivan2]

Dear Tukero, Po Eun is a Choi Hong Hi's synthetic version of the three Tekki, also named Naifanshin, katas (Shuri Te current). By 1942, Choi Hong Hi was a 2nd grade student of Gishin Funakoshi, the founder of Shoto Kan. When became a general, he first taught what he called "real Shoto Kan", mixed with Tae Kyon techniques, notably in the 29th Infantry Division, before spreading to the entire korean army. (to be continued)

[nghoaivan2]

@tukero : The way Po Eun was initially practiced did not include sine wave motions which has been invented long time later. Whithout sine wave, Chon Ji system really look like Shoto Kan. Besides, why showing something that had been already showed numerous times ? However, forget it if you have an exam or a competition ... :) Excellent week end !

[tukero]

@nghoaivan2 thanks for the data i did know that Choi was a karate student but i didnt know about the origin of po-eun. that explain why its done that way thanks!

[itsonlymy1stday]

@tukero and what's so bad about being similiar to a kata. it would make transitioning to karate easier, expanding your horizon.

[tukero]

You killed po eun

[nghoaivan2]

@tukero : Well : Requiem aeternam, dona eis, Domine. Et lux perpetua, luceat eis ... :))

[thelaughtilldeath]

i was looking through the taekwondo forms on youtube, and by far, this is the best i have seen. the way the power are generated, not just with the hands but also with the hips and body movement. but i reckon that if the hand relaxes a bit more, it will be even better. ^^

[brokenshadow202]

His movements are...strange. But it is very good technique.

[SpectralMessenger]

sine wave is part of the theory of power and generates a lot of the power in a movement, it also demonstrates your knowledge in tae kwon do and shows you know thep roper way of performing each movement and linking movements

ITF is the original tae kwon do set down by general choi and maintained by the council of masters and Grand master Rhee ki ha

[nghoaivan2]

Thanks for these information. Sine wave : down-up-down is an elaborated version of "Ochi" in japanneese (you must "fall down" toward your target). Others principles of this theory of force (Tsukada sensei - Beppa Shito Ryu) are Tame (tension- relaxation, mainly hip muscles), Kime (sudden stop ?), Shime (all the body is linked in the motion). I learned with Kawanishi sensei 2 weeks ago : sudden stop while stepping forward.

These theories are very interesting, but must be tested physically.

[jadefist2000]

@nghoaivan2 is there an article or website i can read up on the japanese way of theory of forces or more detail on Tame, Kime and Shime?

[brandell69]

sine wave is a joke.

[AndersonChan84]

because you don't understand sine-wave. Sine wave is adding mass to your technique...therefore increasing power

[shinigami546]

There's way to fast of motion to even have any sine wave movement. The patterns are not to just be breeze through, but practiced with slowing down the preparation and executing with great speed. If you were to try any practical movements from Po-Eun, those fast movements would not do anything for you. However, I'm sure you were taught that way, (to go fast that is), but time has changed, the patterns and even the moves have changed, so update your ITF knowledge.

[nghoaivan2]

TKD is a souvenir. I actually practice Tang Lang + Shito Ryu. About speed : after an initial stage of learning, it's benefit to perform fast motions to disconnect the "thinking" process, and make movements almost automatic. Only automatic movements are helpful in a real situation.Just like driving a car, or writing, in which you don't think about each movement, but just a global intention and a genaral outline. Otherwise it doesn't work. We can't apply our patterns in fighting for this reason.

[nghoaivan2]

I think there's 3 types of hip motion : up down (generally accepted by all schools, even inconsciously, or discreetly), horizontal rotation (japanneese Shurite ancestor of Shotokan, chineese Shaolin Chang Quan, or Tai Chi Yang style, TKD), frontal rotation, also called ante - retro version of the hip : in Nahate, GojuRyu, Shaolin Southern schools, Taichi Sun style, etc..Some schools combinate the two rotations (leading to an "eight" motion)like TaiChi Chen style. Well, what a chatterbox I am !

[sycodave11]

i'm sure in the 1970's book on tkd gen. choi said you should raise your hip at the start of a motion and drop it at the end,(what can be seen as "sine wave" nowadays)

[nghoaivan2]

I happened to know that the "sine wave" motion is : down-up-down ? Simply drop the hip (and hole body) is known in Tsukada's theory of force (a branch of Shito Ryu) as "Ochi" (you must fall down toward your target. The others principles are Tame (tension- relaxation, mainly the hip muscles), Kime (sudden stop ?), Shime (all the body is linked in the motion). These theory are very interesting, but must be tested physically.

[4thDan]

I know Gen. Choi taught sine-wave as the hips going up and down. Couldn't that power be generated the same with the hips pulled back and forth in a sideways motion? Also, when was the crescent kick taken out of this form? I have studied both the full and condensed encyclopedias and haven't found it mentioned.

[hayato10]

Yes, sine wave is like what you said. In fact, sin(x), a period of 2pi, starts off going up, reaching +1 at pi/2, then falling down to 0 at pi/2, reaching -1 at 3pi/2 and back at 0 at 2pi.

In the case of 'down-up-down', I think you are talking about -sin(x).

[nghoaivan2]

I forgot : thank you for your comment

[MasterMalm]

After reading all the comments - I thought I would point out that ITF Taekwondo evolved over time. Since the Generals death, it should stay as it is currently practiced, at least the forms shouldn't change or evolve anymore. Excellent speed and hip in this form, although no sine wave. Performed VERY much like a Naihanchi/Tekki which is where this pattern originated from.

[theshiznut]

i got taught the 70's way too and im barely 10 years old

[theshiznut]

Dang Huy Duc has a bussiness in tae kwon do in westminster

[mediaboyz]

Ya I used to train when it was in garbage grove on Bolsa. Great training boxing + tae kwon do, then Kung Fu & staff later on.

[theshiznut]

theres a sideback kick

[leperchaun9]

wtf there is no kick in that pattern

[ninjastorm]

This Po-eun is alike Tekki/nihanchi shodan in many way. I also study Shorin-ryu and shotokan karate along side ITF Taekwon-Do. This Hyung is based off of Funakoshis Tekki shodan except with the kicks. I respect all styles and diffrences in all ITF Taekwon-Do, because in the end we are all ITF students

[awsded]

wtf u doin

[chilldude666]

There are subtle differences to this form than the Po Eun Hyung that I am training with (I am a 1rst dan) but regardless, the technique and power were right on. Very well done.

[Goldsmith18kt]

I myself come from a 1970's ITF Background.. This form to me dosnt look right Im a V Degree ITF

[nghoaivan2]

I replace the garding block (in the begining) by a double punches to fit with Shuri Kei Nai Fan shin, the original form.

[zentkd]

Absolutely! Early Taekwon-Do was very like Shotokan. Infact Po -Eun is very similar to Takei Shodun if i remember correctly.

In your Po-Eun you can see the difference in application also, placing the finger belly across the back of the wrist is in fact a trapping motion which leads into a joint manipulation, this is the Karate application. In Taekwon-Do it is different. So in essence your performance of Po-Eun is probably closer to the real application as Funakoshi designed it.

[zentkd]

There is no wrong way or right way when it comes to 'older' versions of Taekwon-Do patterns. This is how patterns were done before sine wave was introduced and people like an Han Cha Kyo and Park Jung Tae together with Gen. Choi and Choi Jung Hwa changed te tempo and speed and introduced sne wave to make them look different to Japanese Karate. This pattern here is similar in style to Karate. Nothing wrong with that :)

[nghoaivan2]

Very impressed by your erudition. I saw a picture of Gen Choi and some other "proto" TKD Masters with Master Gichin Funakoshi, the founder of Shotokan Karate. Gen Choi had a 2nd dan in this school, and first taught Shotokan Karate when he had the command of the 29th infantry division in the 50's. That's why "Old" TKD is very similar to Shotokan. Thanks for your comment.

[stephnnie]

I'm 70's style TKD, too! There has to be more reason to introduce the sine wave than just to differentiate from Karate, don't you think? The way I see it, that motion (using the old karate way, which I still do) is the source of my power. Messing with the body motion, the source of power in my techniques, that is too important to change just to differentiate from Karate. So there must be more to it. I'm curious. Zentkd, do you know of any other reasons? I love TKD and I want to understand.

[nghoaivan2]

Sorry, when I began to practice this pattern, in the 70's, there was no ITK ... If you are looking for an academic ITF version, it must not be this one. Have a beautiful sunday. My respect to your instructor.

[hwibawa]

VEry intersting. My ibnstructor also comes from a 70s ITF-BASED TKD (prior to sine-waves and slower movements, etc) so very solid. fast punches and sharp kicks.

[nghoaivan2]

Some regrets, indeed. If I have to record this pattern again, it should be different. I guess you comme from Goju Ryu. I would appreciate your advice when I post a Shito Ryu's version of Sei Pai Kata.

[fionabowdren]

omg that wasa terrible.sorry maybe Im just used to slow motion but that looks terrible whats the name of this patten?

[Shakster1]

Apparently he's doing an "old style" of it-I was ready to throw in some criticism as well, but then it was possible that this WAS done in the past-no sine wave etc-meh. I'm too young to know, so let it be.

[nghoaivan2]

Except some little personal contribution, the pattern is performed as in the 70's. Historically, Po Eun come from japanneese Nai Fan Chin patterns, wich certainly came from an old Chineese form. I just watch your "personnal pattern". Even though the style has greatly evoluated, I can recognize most of the patterns. Nice kicks !

[bangkaliliang]

is this Po-Eun play in Karate style?

[MarthFalcoPro001]

hurray for Grand Master Dang Huy Duc! He's teaching me right now ^^

[MarthFalcoPro001]

hmm, the pattern is different nowadays, no crescent kicks...

[nghoaivan2]

He is my first TKD teacher in 1967. Please don't show him my video, I risk to get told off ...

[nghoaivan2]

In Shurite Naifanshin pattern there are sweeping kicks at equivalent places. Maybe in a very distant form (old chineese one), there was something to do with the foot at this moment ?

[nghoaivan2]

I should add : sweeping or stamping motion. On the other hand, the low side kick in Po Eun does not exist in Karate Pattern (just a cross step). They could learn from us too !

[wngo70]

really? what belt and your name?

[MarthFalcoPro001]

I'm purple belt right now, my name's Connor. I was about green when i commented.

[getbuttkik]

dude me too and wwat ur name there lol

[itsonlymy1stday]

@MarthFalcoPro001 cool, he was also my teacher for the 2nd half of the 90's

[zenpixel]

I guess this was before the started using sine wave, as it looks really stiff, and whats with the cresent kicks thrown in there?

[nghoaivan2]

You are right. "Sin motion" was not known, and in the 70's, a crescent kick was placed there. Youth memories !