She sings it nicely enough but why does she need to keep looking at the music? Doesn't she know how it goes? Did she not spend enough time on it to learn five minutes of music? The score looks like a library copy.
@LJBSasha The main question remains unanswered: why do those who dislike this music bother to log onto those sites which feature it in order to inveigh against it, like Evangelists warning against behavior that will lead to perdition? If they don't like it, they should stay away from it. There is a lot of music, as well as performers, I dislike, but I don't try to ruin the enjoyment of those who like what I don't. It boggles the mind. Meanwhile, long live the 2nd Viennese School.
WOW!!! It's in these "Altenberg Lieder" where Ms. Renée Fleming comes into her own. If I wasn't that impressed with at least one of the same composer's "Sieben Frühe Lieder", here there's absolutely no question of an authoritative performance on her part as well as Abbado & his instrumentalists!! [Strange that his strings are somewhat reduced in numbers compared to what one would expect with13 woodwinds and 12 brass & a full variety of percussion, even keyboards (harmonium, piano, celesta).]
this man can hear the most amazing willowy orchestral sonorities. I have the violin con score and it amazes .Every page is a wonder. How could he have been so fabulously trained .He didn't have an orch around. the 7 early lieder and lyric suite are miracles .MIRACLES .I love these timbres& colors ! I must get the score to this also!
To halloerde: To each his or her own. But if you think of twelve tone (which this isn't by the way) as a mental illness, why do you bother those of us who enjoy our time in the asylum? I cannot for the life of me understand that. Do you have some sort of zealot's need to warn us that loving twelve tone is a sin against God? It may very well be as you suggest, but do us a favor and leave us to our hellish fate and we'll leave you to the heaven of endless triads.
@Varese13: May I utter a word on halloerde's behalf? He may not like atonal music, but he says that he used to compose it! Perhaps he's trying to convince himself about it or something related thereto - or he's simply wondering about it, without being really out to convince others against it.
At the same time, to halloerde: if early 20th-century music from the 2nd Viennese school is a mental breakdown, what of the rest of this century? How about tonalists like Shostakóvich, Poulenc?
Length stopped me from adding Vaughan-Williams and (to a lesser extent) Messiaen to the list...
Otherwise, has anybody who has posted here read Ernest Ansermet's "Foundations of Music in the Human Consciousness"? Any ideas as to how truly logical is he in claiming, using mathematics, that atonalism is based on a faulty æsthetic? I'm tempted to read it, but am not too crazy about "hand-waving" (where things aren't solidly based)...
I often wonder why it is that people who "don't like atonal music" bother to come here and write "opinions" which ruin the experience for those who do like atonal music. I mean, it's as if they wish to broadcast their limitations to the world as if they are virtues. I personally could care less who doesn't like this music. To me, it is great music, wonderfully performed. One would prefer those who felt otherwise to go elsewhere where they'll doubtless find what interests them.
Dear Varese. I hope your flute is tuned, and you will accept thoughtful criticism from one of the the many who who have composed atonal-serial music, and gradually come to reject it. Berg, Schoenberg, and others all proved themselves capable of composing tonal music. They were not illiterates, hiding behind novelty! Tonality, is a grammar, without which, communication dies. I regard the early 20th century, as a sort of mental breakdown, not unassociated with the horrors of WWI.
Whatever the qualities of Rene's sweet voice still I think the german music (not to mention Berg!) is not quite her cup of tea. Though Mozart is definitely her hobby-horse.
This is one of my favourite works ever. There is a lucid insanity rendered wittily by Berg. Every flute in the right place. Berg takes the mickey out of a soulful lady -but in complete sympathy with her - who wants to escape from wordliness to nature, but when she gets there she finds solitude. I think you do have to know more about Berg and have the postcard texts. The last passacaglia piece should be more accessible to the unfamiliar. I'd like to write more but my space is limited.
@5InAnotherLand5 It was nice to see a musical light going on in your letter. I'd like to give you my e-mail address but dare not post it here. I don't know if you are on Facebook; you could find me there. There are at least 2 F. de V's there, but I think you could guess easily which is me. My first and enduring love was Schumann - a favourite of Berg's too. I'm writing about Sch. now.
Thanks so much for posting this. Those of us who love this music are pleased that it is well represented on this forum. And, of course, it is a pleasure to hear and watch Abbado do anything! Ditto Fleming.
People have different opinions on what is good and what is not. There is no absolute. I do not appreciate being slurred because I simply do not like something. I do not care for atonal music in any way. She performs this piece very well. I have an appreciation for this kind of music, but I don't like it. I could listen to this if I had to, its a lot better than other atonal stuff I've heard.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
I know what you mean. Atonal stuff is very hard for me to listen to, but it usually always has a method and plan, even though it sounds disgusting. It is ridiculously hard to sing, needless to say.
@MjoEm32 We both have our own opinions, that is yours and I have stated mine. I do not care for atonal music at all, and you do. I appreciate it, I just don't like it.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Claudio Abbado is simply fantastic! But this is hardly news. On the other hand, I can't stomach the singer's voice and how she uses it. It is dismal and ruinous to the performance overall. A pity.
wow. this is pretty spectacular on all accounts--who knew renée was singing berg, and so damned well at that. she sounds absolutely at ease.. she's singing messiaen in new york next year, and i was wrong to have my doubts. may we have an erwartung please?
abbado is a genius with this music. i love boulez the conductor and have his recording of these songs (w/ jessye) but it's like a whole different piece in abbado's hands. echt deutsch. bravo.
@minirausch OHHHH, Erwartung!!! Almost my favorite peice of music on earth!! If you read scores, it is a must that you follow this work score in hand. Anyway, I agree, she certainly sounds at ease here. Very great posting!
Wat een schoonheid en rijkdom aan ipoetische ideeen. Een van de meest belangrijke - maar helaas veel te weinig uitgevoerde - composities van de afgelopen eeuw
She sings it nicely enough but why does she need to keep looking at the music? Doesn't she know how it goes? Did she not spend enough time on it to learn five minutes of music? The score looks like a library copy.
dp7653 6 months ago
I find it encouraging. Many singers can barely read music.
melengi 1 month ago
Twelve tone isn't a form of mental illness, but the creation of a new musical language. If you don't like the language, don't be a Zhdanov.
paolosilv 11 months ago
@LJBSasha The main question remains unanswered: why do those who dislike this music bother to log onto those sites which feature it in order to inveigh against it, like Evangelists warning against behavior that will lead to perdition? If they don't like it, they should stay away from it. There is a lot of music, as well as performers, I dislike, but I don't try to ruin the enjoyment of those who like what I don't. It boggles the mind. Meanwhile, long live the 2nd Viennese School.
Varese13 1 year ago 3
WOW!!! It's in these "Altenberg Lieder" where Ms. Renée Fleming comes into her own. If I wasn't that impressed with at least one of the same composer's "Sieben Frühe Lieder", here there's absolutely no question of an authoritative performance on her part as well as Abbado & his instrumentalists!! [Strange that his strings are somewhat reduced in numbers compared to what one would expect with13 woodwinds and 12 brass & a full variety of percussion, even keyboards (harmonium, piano, celesta).]
LJBSasha 1 year ago
this man can hear the most amazing willowy orchestral sonorities. I have the violin con score and it amazes .Every page is a wonder. How could he have been so fabulously trained .He didn't have an orch around. the 7 early lieder and lyric suite are miracles .MIRACLES .I love these timbres& colors ! I must get the score to this also!
lovesGenet 1 year ago
I think she's good here, almost more convincing than in many more romantic and classic things...
giupel73 1 year ago
To halloerde: To each his or her own. But if you think of twelve tone (which this isn't by the way) as a mental illness, why do you bother those of us who enjoy our time in the asylum? I cannot for the life of me understand that. Do you have some sort of zealot's need to warn us that loving twelve tone is a sin against God? It may very well be as you suggest, but do us a favor and leave us to our hellish fate and we'll leave you to the heaven of endless triads.
Varese13 1 year ago
@Varese13: May I utter a word on halloerde's behalf? He may not like atonal music, but he says that he used to compose it! Perhaps he's trying to convince himself about it or something related thereto - or he's simply wondering about it, without being really out to convince others against it.
At the same time, to halloerde: if early 20th-century music from the 2nd Viennese school is a mental breakdown, what of the rest of this century? How about tonalists like Shostakóvich, Poulenc?
LJBSasha 1 year ago
Length stopped me from adding Vaughan-Williams and (to a lesser extent) Messiaen to the list...
Otherwise, has anybody who has posted here read Ernest Ansermet's "Foundations of Music in the Human Consciousness"? Any ideas as to how truly logical is he in claiming, using mathematics, that atonalism is based on a faulty æsthetic? I'm tempted to read it, but am not too crazy about "hand-waving" (where things aren't solidly based)...
LJBSasha 1 year ago
Loving this music, is somewhat like loving an inflatable doll. She might have all the right measurements. But, do you miss a soul?
halloerde 1 year ago
I often wonder why it is that people who "don't like atonal music" bother to come here and write "opinions" which ruin the experience for those who do like atonal music. I mean, it's as if they wish to broadcast their limitations to the world as if they are virtues. I personally could care less who doesn't like this music. To me, it is great music, wonderfully performed. One would prefer those who felt otherwise to go elsewhere where they'll doubtless find what interests them.
Varese13 1 year ago
Dear Varese. I hope your flute is tuned, and you will accept thoughtful criticism from one of the the many who who have composed atonal-serial music, and gradually come to reject it. Berg, Schoenberg, and others all proved themselves capable of composing tonal music. They were not illiterates, hiding behind novelty! Tonality, is a grammar, without which, communication dies. I regard the early 20th century, as a sort of mental breakdown, not unassociated with the horrors of WWI.
halloerde 1 year ago
Whatever the qualities of Rene's sweet voice still I think the german music (not to mention Berg!) is not quite her cup of tea. Though Mozart is definitely her hobby-horse.
5InAnotherLand5 1 year ago
This is one of my favourite works ever. There is a lucid insanity rendered wittily by Berg. Every flute in the right place. Berg takes the mickey out of a soulful lady -but in complete sympathy with her - who wants to escape from wordliness to nature, but when she gets there she finds solitude. I think you do have to know more about Berg and have the postcard texts. The last passacaglia piece should be more accessible to the unfamiliar. I'd like to write more but my space is limited.
felixdevilliers1 2 years ago
@felixdevilliers1 ! I adore all music written by Berg and especially these songs. And I really like your comments on this piece.
5InAnotherLand5 1 year ago
@5InAnotherLand5 It was nice to see a musical light going on in your letter. I'd like to give you my e-mail address but dare not post it here. I don't know if you are on Facebook; you could find me there. There are at least 2 F. de V's there, but I think you could guess easily which is me. My first and enduring love was Schumann - a favourite of Berg's too. I'm writing about Sch. now.
felixdevilliers1 1 year ago
Thanks so much for posting this. Those of us who love this music are pleased that it is well represented on this forum. And, of course, it is a pleasure to hear and watch Abbado do anything! Ditto Fleming.
Varese52 2 years ago
People have different opinions on what is good and what is not. There is no absolute. I do not appreciate being slurred because I simply do not like something. I do not care for atonal music in any way. She performs this piece very well. I have an appreciation for this kind of music, but I don't like it. I could listen to this if I had to, its a lot better than other atonal stuff I've heard.
lcsingin4christ 2 years ago
I wonder what it would have been like if Visconti had used this music instead of Mahler.
Bolenderable 2 years ago
Really beautiful and smooth music though a have a better version with another singer. Thank you for posting this.
Tekne 2 years ago
Fantastic singing Renée! BRAVO
fludu1 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I listened to it twice, and I don't really like it as music.
plslvmn 2 years ago
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I know what you mean. Atonal stuff is very hard for me to listen to, but it usually always has a method and plan, even though it sounds disgusting. It is ridiculously hard to sing, needless to say.
lcsingin4christ 2 years ago
It's beautiful, not disgusting - and not particularly difficult to listen to either.
MjoEm32 2 years ago
@MjoEm32 We both have our own opinions, that is yours and I have stated mine. I do not care for atonal music at all, and you do. I appreciate it, I just don't like it.
lcsingin4christ 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Claudio Abbado is simply fantastic! But this is hardly news. On the other hand, I can't stomach the singer's voice and how she uses it. It is dismal and ruinous to the performance overall. A pity.
Scalatti 3 years ago
What about her voice bothers you?
wesleyan97 3 years ago
Amazing!!!!
jmbankens 3 years ago 3
Even though, Boulez-Norman's version remains defenitive for me...
Yoavmw 3 years ago
Same here. It's epic.
wesleyan97 3 years ago
I love J. Norman but I personally (and humbly) consider that Margaret Price - Claudio Abbado, London Symphony it's such a wonderful interpretation.
rometube 2 years ago
I have been repulsed by flemming's work in recent years but this is truely amazing.
I don't know why but for some reason her manerism actualy works here.
Brava! :)
Yoavmw 3 years ago
wow. this is pretty spectacular on all accounts--who knew renée was singing berg, and so damned well at that. she sounds absolutely at ease.. she's singing messiaen in new york next year, and i was wrong to have my doubts. may we have an erwartung please?
abbado is a genius with this music. i love boulez the conductor and have his recording of these songs (w/ jessye) but it's like a whole different piece in abbado's hands. echt deutsch. bravo.
minirausch 3 years ago 8
@minirausch OHHHH, Erwartung!!! Almost my favorite peice of music on earth!! If you read scores, it is a must that you follow this work score in hand. Anyway, I agree, she certainly sounds at ease here. Very great posting!
callmeBe 11 months ago
God bless you for posting these!
wesleyan97 3 years ago 2
Wat een schoonheid en rijkdom aan ipoetische ideeen. Een van de meest belangrijke - maar helaas veel te weinig uitgevoerde - composities van de afgelopen eeuw
Blauwhoed 3 years ago
¡Adorable!. Una de las voces màs bellas.
giordanomr 3 years ago